Guest Post: Things I Wish White Pagans Realized

This blog is being reprinted, with permission from the writer, as a way to continue to spread the varying experiences of Pagans of Color.  What I liked the most about this piece, outside of it being well articulated, was the diversity in voice that it brought to the table.  It is not like any other I have read per say and it is not from someone that is African American.

Enjoy!  And leave her a comment, if you are inspired to do so, on her blog at


Things I Wish White Pagans Realized

Xochiquetzal Duti Odinsdottir

 by Xochiquetzal Duti Odinsdottir


I am currently putting time and energy into a hospitality suite for Pagans of Color atPantheacon.  It’s a labor of love and difficulty because of the perceived notions about what that space means and how its effects will reverberate through the general pagan community.  Discussion on a post I put up on Facebook (that I have since removed) derailed, HARD.  There was an individual who was quite upset with the words white supremacist as a descriptor (and a valid one) for what I call ‘majority society’; white, affluent, male, gendernormative, heterocentric, and cissexist.   Pointing out to an individual that while he WASN’T racist, there were those who looked like him that were, was read as an attack that didn’t actually exist.  But the kneejerk reaction of needing to be labeled as NON-racist was so strong that I was surprised and a little unsure as to how to proceed.  I stopped engaging the person I’m speaking about because he tried to get me into an either/or argument and I refuse to talk in logical fallacies, he decided to take my silence to mean that I agreed with him in his logical fallacy, thereby putting words in my mouth.  That conversation was a while back but I find myself going back to it time and again, especially when this post started making the rounds.  Keri’s experiences are all her own, but far too often, the question of racism in paganism, along with all the other -isms that exist in society get brushed aside, silenced when mentioned, or are casually dismissed as being ‘not important to the circle and its workings’.  So, here’s my list of things I wish white Pagans realized when PoC (Pagans of Color) join the circle, (all of these are written in the first person singular, because these are things I WISH they realized, each PoC’s list will be different by a little or a lot, that is part of the joy of dealing with people NOT as a single voice for their ETHNICITY OR RACE, but as the INDIVIDUALS they ARE):

1.  When I talk about marginalization, I want you to imagine an onion, and all the layers an onion has, how thick or thin they are as they get down to the core, that’s what marginalization is like for me.  The more intersections I have, the more layers to my onion.  I am a genderqueer, queer, kinky, poly, pagan, female-presenting, AFAB, Mexican American, lower socioeconomic status upbringing, working class, person.  My onion is nice and thick.  When white pagans complain about how demeaned they feel by the majority society and their tendency towards being Abrahamic Christian and the assumption that they are to, that’s a layer on their onion.  But, they have the opportunity to be heard because their whiteness grants them that chance to state that they aren’t Abrahamic Christian.  If I stand up to say that, it is automatically assumed that I must be a Santera, or some other derivative of that and therefore still have reverence for Catholic saints, etc. because I’m “mexican so that’s what you do, right?”.  I have layers to my onion added, because of what people assume about me by seeing me on the street, in the circle, and at pagan gatherings, not REMOVED.

2.  When I say that I want a separate space for marginalized groups within paganism, I’m not just talking about PoC (Pagans of Color), I’m also talking about groups that don’t normally get lots of exposure or attention.  The second generation, the older women, the young women learning their sexuality, the men who want to explore in safe space the feminine within (dressing, acting, taking up roles traditionally considered female and not allowed or accessible in normative society), the Christo-pagans who have a need for sanctuary to practice their particular faith without getting the side-eye from ‘true Pagans’…  All those voices and experiences deserve a space they can carve out and call their own to feel safe, not just from the rest of a ‘con or gathering, but from themselves.  It’s not about self-segregating, it’s about self-care.  When I am asked if I would be okay with someone making a space in a pagan gathering that was ‘whites only’ and how that would affect me, I honestly didn’t have an answer because, the majority population at a pagan event tends towards white, so why do you need another room when there’s a whole conference/space/gathering area where you can see each other?

3. Using questions like how I feel about any and all forms of racism as a way to goad me into stating that some racism is worse than others is just plain tacky.  At worst, it shows that you’re grasping at straws for an argument, at best, it’s a blind statement to how you might think you’re being attacked when someone questions the privilege of your whiteness.

4.  Declaring that you are upset by people choosing to have a space that marginalizes you because you’re white, is hard (for me) to take seriously.  Do you actually HEAR yourself when you say these words?  Do you realize how hard it is to hear this because that’s what it’s like for me and other PoC and marginalized groups for a few moments in a hypothetical situation?  Our marginalization happens in our day to day.  We are marginalized, othered, and shamed for things we have NO control over, just going about our day.  I wish I could feel for you, I really do, and part of me does; but the part of me that does, is sardonic in its response because you have now been afforded a taste of what my life is like, CONSTANTLY.

5.  My silence does NOT mean my consent.  Silence means NO.  My silence and what it means, does NOT get to be defined by you.  By deciding for me, what my actions mean, marks me as the one needing to have my mind made up for me, and clearly, you as the white person, know my mind better than I do.  No, you do not, therefore you should NOT ever be allowed to do that.  It’s just another tactic that has been used in the past to drive home just how marginalized PoC are, and is plain bad manners.

6.  One of the things that makes this hard for me is this commonly used phrase in paganism, “in perfect love and perfect trust”.  A friend of mine and I were discussing it, I see it as part of the agreement I consent to by doing magic with a circle of people, not just with my deities.  And this is the one that suffers the most every time I have to defend the need for space; the more I hear claims that people who are pagan CAN’T be racist, the more I hear that this is self-segregating, separatist, etc. the less I feel I can trust being in sacred space with you.  This isn’t just about me saying that this space isn’t open to allies, which it is.  It’s more about why did I have so FEW allies at the first PoC Caucus at Pantheacon?  Why wasn’t my room overflowing with allies wanting to hear, listen, support, and learn ways to participate in the discussion around this social justice issue?

Paganism isn’t immune to these issues, if it were, there wouldn’t be the need to hear from one Heathen group after another distancing themselves from their more stringent contingents (the ones who claim that only Northern European descendants have the right to worship the Norse deities).  We deal in interesting areas of life; we worship g*ds that are from a time that’s not ours, a people we may have no actual genetic connection to, and have experiences that science can’t explain but that feed our souls.  Part of the experience within humanity is remembering that we all have walked a path long before we walked this Path together.  I read a lot of talk about how each person’s path is different and the destination looks similar even if it’s worlds apart, but part of that is the fact that for some of us, the path has been thornier than just people not understanding the CHOICE to be pagan.

The main thing I wish white Pagans realized:  I’m not any more different from you, just because I have a skin color that is darker than yours.  The g*ds called us both, even if the way we are called looks vastly different.  I ask to join this circle because I want to have that moment of perfect love and perfect trust with you, with the group, with my g*dden.  If you can’t have me there because you hold onto some antiquated notion of what being non-white means, then tell me, before I enter into the circle with you.  Don’t waste my time with your issues, I have enough of my own.

Meditation: The Path to Spiritual Activism or Escapism
Memories, Apologies and Veneration
My Top Ten Pagans Working As Change Agents for Social Justice in 2014
PantheaCon 2015; Pain, Healing Work, Allyship in Action and Coalition Building
  • Daniel Grey

    Fabulous post all around, and invaluable reading for those of us who consider ourself allies.

  • The Real Jersey Girl

    Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts on this topic.  Lately I have been thinking about my status as a solitary practitioner and wondering if I should maybe try to be a part of a group……then I remember “Hell is other people”.  So solitary I will stay, with this forum as a useful outlet to communicate with others of my faith.

    • Kevin Faulkner

       Heaven and hell are mirrors; other people can be hell, but heaven too if you find the RIGHT other people.

  • William Ashton

    Thank you for your courage and vulnerability in sharing such a charged topic. It’s always great to get deeper insight as an ally. Blessings on your path.

  • Nicole Youngman

    One of the things I always find interesting along the lines of “you’re race/ethnicity X, so you must be involved in trad Y” is that many–maybe most!–of the people I’ve seen/met who practice Vodou in New Orleans (at least the folks who are easily accessible, have public rituals or welcome visitors, etc) are *white.* I’m not sure what’s up with that, but it’s an interesting phenomenon and always gets me thinking about the concept of “ancestry”–I think we all have spiritual/cultural ancestors and ancestors-of-place as well as biological ones, so maybe the former two pull on us more strongly sometimes.

  • Bill Wheaton

    Ug.  I detest having to do delete several pages of questions, insights, agreements, and disagreements.  Gone with a click.  

    After reading and re-reading what I wrote and what you wrote, it is obvious to me there is something fundamental I am missing with the context here.  I find this whole post difficult to understand.    As a 54 year-old pagan white guy of several decades, I feel pretty dismissed, despite my longtime interest in, and support of multiculturalism.  I’m Especially concerned that it culminated in someone using it to decide about becoming part of a group or not.

    So rather than make an asshat of myself, I think I will simply butt-out and see if anyone else can explain this better or fill in the blank spots.   

    • Kaerla Fellows

       Hi Mr. Wheaton,

      It’s kind of uncomfortable, that feeling of dismissal, I’d guess.  It kind of stinks that I don’t have the power to help you change it for something more… inclusive.  I can imagine that it feels dis-empowering, that it makes you feel less than you know you are, that it’s frustrating, to say the least.

      I don’t mean to be flip.  I honestly do not mean to be glib or sarcastic or patronizing when I point out that those feelings are how some people, men and women, experience the greater pagan community, not to mention much of society in general.

      Are you familiar with the parable of the dog and the lizard?  If not, here is a link to it:

      I honestly hope this has provided even a little bit of clarity for you.

    • Elinor Predota

      I haven’t read your previous conversation with Xochiquetzal Duti Odinsdottir. I am not a Person of Colour. I have, however, witnessed and been part of many, many conversations between people in a marginalised group and people who have privilege in regard to that marginalised group. 

      If you don’t know what privilege is, read this:

      The main thing to remember when a marginalised group – whatever the marginalised group – is claiming space for themselves, and you aren’t a member of that marginalised group, is that it’s not about you. 

      Your needs get met in the mainstream of whatever body you’re part of – whether a convention, the wider Pagan community, or society at large. You don’t get to say whether it’s okay for a marginalised group to carve out space for themselves to have their needs met. It’s not about you.

      It’s not about multiculturalism, it’s about marginalised people feeling safe, and it’s not about you.

    • Larissa Carlson Viana

      That you did not put up a knee jerk reaction and gave it some thought even if what you are saying is you feel confused, is promising. I spent several months this year reading up on black history from the slave trade beginnings through the time of the sharecroppers. I also spent months pouring over information on African traditional religions. My conclusion was there was a hell of a lot I didn’t know before and I thought I was educated. It became much easier to understand my black neighbors and their POVs. I would suggest you spend serious time reading history books and eventually you will not have to ask what you are missing.

  • Kiera

    I think it also depends on where you live. I live in a town dominated by hispanic, and part of my onion would be that I am too hispanic to fit into the white community and really too white to fit into the hispanic community. And being a mexican-american, greek, bisexual pagan in a strictly christian-catholic community I can honeatly say I can feel your aggrivation, but from a whole different perspective. There are no circles to partake in here at all. The only one I found was a bunch of teens basically mocking traditions….one meeting was all I could withstand before I walked out shaking my head and asked where thwir parents were….

  • Alleh Pagan

    Honestly, I never looked at someone who was of a different race/color than me and said “you can’t be religion x; you have to be religion y!” I guess it really depends on the mentality of a person. You would think that in this community, the idea of diversity would be commonplace. 

  • Kilmrnock

    I unfortunatly have to agree w/ Bill. i too am a mid 50′s white man . i am a child of the sixties . Am an exhippie but  am not a person of color . your column left me feeling a bit bewildered . also i must say to feel and understand what a PoC feels one must be a PoC. I do understand being on the outside looking in , from a pagan perspective …………….but being what i am precluds me from understanding the PoC experience .But i too am a supporter of multicultualism , what you call an allie.i have freinds of all races and religions . But as a CR [Celtic reconstructionist] all of my coreligionists are white , heriditary Celts are white . but what i am trying to say is a white person doesn’t understand your problems b/c we don’t have the same experiences you do , we have a different frame of reference . One thing you may wish to keep in mind , most pagans are on your side , we prefer racial and ethnic diversity . We just don’t see many mexican pagans . Most of us are your allies , we are on your side , have been for a long time . I have and will stand  with my gay and black freinds i have no reason not to stand w hispanic freinds as well . Just for the record what gods do you honor/venerate , i’m curious?We in the pagan community welcome diversity. I can agree not all will, but most pagans will support Poc groups , will be your allies .Donot discount all of us.     Kilm 

    • Onravenswings

       “Hereditary Celts are white..” sir, you seriously showed some ignorance about race and ethnicity in America. Let me clue you in on something: Irish/ English/Scots indentured servants were working alongside African slaves in America, and as folks tend to do they mixed it up resulting in  “hereditary” Afro Celt babies, some free some enslaved depending on the status of the mother. later in the Plantation era, again the white american descendants of the indentured or freemen who chose to become  slaveowners had no problem  making more mixed babies with slave mistresses, Free WOC or whatever. I’m writing all this so you can understand: there plenty of Afro- American ‘hereditary Celts’ with names like Dooley (from the Gaeilge for Dark Knight or Dark hero), Jackson, Maxwell and Mackenzie.

      The issue is that peole DO insist on catagorizing people of POC in as simple a manner as possible EVEN within the Pagan community, a community that claims to prize diversity but can sometimes act in ways that show the opposite. Like assuming that a person of Mexican heritage is/should be a Santera…a religion that has its roots in CUBAN culture. Or that Afro- Americans should be into Vodoun or Kemetic studies rather than Druidry, CR, Hellenic recon or Wicca. It never occurs to those who question the spiritual choices of POC that they may be following the Soul’s desire ? That their Irish, English or German ancestors called them to their chosen path?

      • Kilmrnock

        First off i personaly make no such assumptions , and no doubt there was/is much ethnic blending within the celtic peoples , i do have an understanding of our history , who and what we are and where we as a people come from .But in general , altho there may be Celtic blood , most blacks donot self identify as Celtic here .But in all fairness those of any ethnic group w/ Celt blood are welcome to the mix . My Family Came here to the US over 170 yrs ago as a result of the Scottish Clearances , we all know of the disaster that was , there are more Scots in the US , Canada and Australia than in Scotland . My ancestors arrived here under unfavorable conditions as well most likely as you have described, to Eastern Shore MD,VA.That area is mostly Scot , Irish , Scots-Irish and English decended people  .This is why we have a fairly active Celtic/Geal community here , many well attended gatherings and a active community of Recon Celts amoungst the Pagans

    • Maggie Watanabe

      Kilmrnock, I’m a Celt, born and bred in Scotland and can trace my ancestry back as far as anyone in the country. I’m not just a hereditary Celt, I am the real deal. I am also mixed race like many people in Celtic countries (we’re actually quite cosmopolitan). When the Romans built the Antonine Wall in 142CE they posted Syrian Auxiliaries in the middle of Central Scotland. Do you really think there was no mixing of genes even back then?  

    • Elinor Predota

      In addition to the extremely good points made by Onravenswings and Maggie Watanabe, you should bear in mind that ‘The Celts’ weren’t just on the Western fringes of the British Isles. They were spread across the whole of the Indo-European landmass at one time (if one can even talk about a single people called ‘The Celts’). Do you honestly think all of them were white?

      • Fox Magrathea Circe

        Part of the problem is there is no such thing as a unitary “white people” other than as a present-day sociocultural identification.

        That said, there’s much more subsaharan African ancestry amongst “white” Americans than most of those people know, especially if their ancestors settled in Virginia and not in New England and especially if their ancestors were Irish, Scottish or Scotch Irish, since those peoples were marginalised by the English and often served as indentured servants side-by-side with West Africans in the New World. This sort of lineage was, up until recently, usually hidden for reasons we’re all familiar with.

    • Kilmrnock

      Ok l let me clearify things here abit , First off i had no intent to upset anyone . Also i’m only speaking of personal experience , here in the US. I donot claim to be an expert in affairs  in Scotland or Europe .As far as Scottish heridity etc i am no expert in anything . I was just stating what i was to explain my point of view in the discussion at hand . Here in the US at all the Scottish and Celtic events i have attended , Scottish Games , Burns Suppers , even general Celtic events incuding CR groups  all the Celts i’ve ever met are white . I do understand we are a rather diverse group decended from all over Europe and there has been alot of ethnic blending in the Celtic mix . I am mostly Scot , but am also Irish , French and a wee bit English . I am just a humble Celtic Pagan here in the American diaspora trying to live as best i can w/ a Celt mindset and reclaimed Pagan  religion

      • Onravenswings

        Fair enough, but keep in mind that just because someone looks ‘ white’ , that it means that they identify as such. My mixed race kids ( African, Irish, Scots, Dutch, Scandinavian, and a teeny verifiable drop of 1st Nations) look ‘white’ at first glance.  But they identify as bi-racial African Americans…so there you go. Many people in the US will assume that Afro-Americans are unaware or don’t care about their lineage outside of the African end. It’s not always the case but,  the general application of the 1 drop rule in the US has made it until pretty recently difficult to actively claim those lines since all that offically matters is your African dna. And those POC who will openly claim that ancestry will often come under fire from both sides: some  Whites who give you the side eye when you show up at certain events, and other POC who will accuse you of self -hate/being colorstruck/having  low self esteem.

        But now, especially for POC who are drawn  ATR’s (where veneration of ALL of ones ancestral lines is mandatory) or Pagan and Recon religions that also have an emphasis on ancestor work, some of us DO reclaim those ancestors too. Because they are us, they are family, however they became so, because they too need healing and elevation  and have healing and help to offer US and they may be the catalyst behind why we join these religions. Of course those lines  go far past the slaveowner and enslaved (or free) WOC and their children, they go back to those historical Celts of ancient times.

        To go back to the OP, the problem is this very thing your well meant comment has brought up: assumptions being made about Pagans of Color as to how we do or should indentify then not being willing to listen when we state that the reality from our perspective and experience is different.

        Kilmrnock,I understand the point of your posts and responses, I get that like most CR’s you are well read in the history of our shared Celt ancestors. In our reclaimation/reconstruction of our ancestral religions, it’s important recognize that in our time the boundries of the tribe are going to be wider than ever so just as there are White people  (who may have more Celt ancestry that anything else) are called to initiate to ATRs thus widing the idea of who “belongs in/joins an Ile” , it’s going the other way and some POC are claiming and joining Recon religions and claiming their other lineages. And thats a good thing all around IMO

    • Kilmrnock

      As i have tried to explain , most that claim Celtic decent , here in the US are either Irish , Scottish , or Welsh . As a recon and one curoius about my heritage i do understand how wideranging the Geal/ Celts once were. Most Americans are woefully ignorant or just plain don’t care about thier ethnic heritage . Seems us pagans are one group , at least us recons , that do care alot . I would wager most American donot even know what gaul was and who lived there or what happened to them . Or why the only Celtic lands left are the Island nations near Britain. I would easily expect most wouldn’t know France or Spain and even Northern  Italy were once Celtic lands .But please give me a break , i do know all of this , please don’t treat me as an idiot , give a bit of credit .      Kilm

    • Kilmrnock

      a simple rephraze ……………Here in the US most heriditary Celts are white . a correction if you will.

    • Euni Hinojosa

      This is the reason for my being a solitary practitioner.  I’m hispanic and there is no one in my area  that I can practice with or meet with.  It’s frustrating. 

  • Yvonne Aburrow

    I saw this post on another blog and commented on it that I agree completely that there should be spaces for those of us who are in special interest groups (e.g. LGBT, disabled, ethnicity, and indeed other specialised interests such as people who are into Myers-Briggs types). 

    Of course one needs space to talk about the issues that pertain to one’s particular group, or just to hang out with people who get certain things and just don’t need the really obvious explained.But I don’t think you can conflate “white privilege” (not noticing that you have privilege because you’re white) with “white supremacist” (believing that you’re superior because you’re white and being extremely right-wing about it). Other than that, good post.

  • Fox Magrathea Circe

    So, let me preface this by stating that I absolutely understand and support the need of marginalized groups to have safe space, and my comments to follow should be understood in that light.

    I’m curious how you formally define who is to be excluded in order to create this safe space for POC, and who determines whether someone is, or is not, a POC? 

    As you know, race and ethnicity is far from cut and dried. For example, while I am mostly of Northern European descent, I do have some small amounts of sub-Saharan African and indigenous American ancestry. I (and just about anyone else) would define me as “white,” and would not attempt to enter said defined safe space out of respect for what you were trying to achieve, but what about cases in which things are less clear, or (because you know these people exist) obviously “white” people who can’t stand to feel marginalized.

    On one hand, since race and ethnicity are often not apparent, it seems like self-definition/selection would be the only way to go, but this opens things up to abuse by petulant “white” spoilsports.

    A further complication is that, if people are not self selecting, the policy might (I am not certain) run afoul of P-con policy mostly deriving from the controversy over transgender participants in Z. Budapest’s ritual. In this case, I understand and support your reasons for wanting to be exclusionary, but I’m not sure if the legitimacy of the excuse (or lack thereof) is a mitigating factor (I’m not on staff so my understanding of the new policy is imperfect as of yet).

    Anyway, I appreciate any answers to my questions, and I hope you take them in the constructive spirit in which they were asked?


  • Kilmrnock

    All i have to add to this discussion is ……….As a white pagan i am truely sorry Keri has had these experiences and been treated in that way . I know i owe my mother a great debt . Altho i was raised Southern Methodist , which is one of the more liberal protestant faiths , we were raised to be not prejudiced ……….racial slurs were not allowed in my parent’s house , ever .I have even seen my parents ask/tell those w/ racist views to leave our house .we were raised w/ a very liberal , non racist outlook .One that was even more re enforced in my mind as i became adult and eventualy pagan .I didn’t realy see racism until i got older and then couldn’t understand it . Where is grew up is/was all middle class working folks , including the blacks i grew up with , to me how i was raised they were just other kids to me , i never considered them different b/c they were  black . i  will admit they were a minority but i never considered them as such , still don’t . In my personal and professional life i have many,,  to use the term PoC freinds and aquantances . they donot get treated any differently than any of my other freinds . In this area in the late 50′s and 60′s when i grew up we didn’t have much contact w/ Hispanics, Asians or other minorities. when i was young the term black wasn’t in use as of yet , i’m not even sure why , but we called African Americans”  colored” in those days . but we never used that term as a slur , altho others did.i now unerstand how it was used in that way .In those days we had no other term for African Americans . And also growing up firmly in the working middle class have  never understood what white privlege is . I am now 57 yrs old , have a modest home 2 old cars , never had a new one btw, still work hard , long hrs , still struggle to pay my bills . i have worked full time since i was 15. To  this day i personaly have never used the N word never will , and can’t understand why black folks do with the history of that term .To this day , to me using any racial slurs or racist attitudes is beyond my coprehension, even more so as a pagan .

  • Kilmrnock

    comprehension, sorry

  • Wade Long

    This is absolutely hilarious!

    Speaking as the person who challenged your racism on Facebook, there are a few glaring omissions I’d like to point out for the readers, granted you don’t simply delete this out of cowardice.

    For starters, you opened the discussion of your No Whites Allowed room by saying its primary function was to “challenge your white allies regarding their privilege and history”. Well, it’s no damn wonder your room “wasn’t overflowing with allies”! All you wanted to do was attack the very people most inclined to help you! You even highlighted your own racism by openly admitting that you were attacking me because of my skin color, because I “looked like someone who was racist”, which in and of itself is the most damning admission of your own racism you could have made. You even made the same confession here!

    Second, slamming the door in someone else’s face out of revenge isn’t any kind of valid path toward achieving racial equality. It’s okay to admit that you just want to get back at white people for some sense of closure, but don’t try to pretend that you’re owed that as your due and proper right.

    Maybe, and this probably hasn’t occurred to you, just maybe your No Whites Allowed room wasn’t overflowing with allies because the vast majority of the pagan community has better things to do with their time than focus all their energy and identity into gender and skin color. Maybe the rest of us realize there’s more to a person than what they look like.

  • Leslie Stewart

    I feel like pagans play perpetual victims. White, black, Mexican, Chinese, queer, straight, trans, whatever. I think we let ourselves be persecuted by putting ourselves out there for it. We always start off on the defensive by posting these “informative” photos of a pentagram and some fireballs and this very defensive text saying something like “I bet you thought I worship Satan. Well guess what. I don’t. We don’t even believe in him.” which to me is just white noise – I don’t think these posts help. We’re always on the defensive from the get go, expecting people to freak out about our faith. But truth be told I think the world is pretty accepting of tolerant of us as long as you don’t act like a weirdo. For myself, personally, I usually only talk about my beliefs with like minded people. It’s a lot less stressful when I don’t throw myself out there – constantly expecting to be persecuted. Has anyone noticed a correlation between pagans and vegans? They both will make sure you know it! Haha

  • Jessas


  • mercy

    I thank you for your courage to discuss this, I’m a mixedfirst nations and other (scot/irish,mullutto creol, german and gypsy to name afew) and I’m multi spiritual as well (my personal path is varied) this make me very happy o read and thank you again ^_^

  • Alonzo & Cherice Fleming

    Wow! How revealing this discussion is of the unhealed preaching to the unhealed. “Physician heal thyself” was screamed out of pain at the very one who represented their own healing. Had they not been so blind, they would have heard the voice of one crying in the wilderness and would have given her water to drink and dressed her wounds; anointed her head with oil and provided room and shelter until she recovered. Who is my neighbor? Who is my enemy? Both answers require great introspection upon which the Christ demands that we draw deeply from the well of compassion — from the well of Love! But since he who has been forgiven much does not know how to forgive little; The master of the house will turn him over to the tormentors. Matthew 18:21-35. Sometimes when you win — you lose!