Biola president Barry Corey uses bully pulpit to threaten Biola QueerUnderground

Dr. Barry Corey in 2010

I recently heard from one of the founders of Biola QueerUnderground, the group of LGBTQ students at conservative Christian college Biola University who earlier this month contacted me after their big coming out event. (If you’re new to this now-national story, see my They’re here; they’re queer; they’ve plenty to fear: LGBT students form secret club at conservative Christian university.)

He/she (as in “maintaining anonymity,” not “shamefully unfamiliar with appropriate language for transgender people”) wrote to me:

On the morning of May 18th, President [of Biola] Dr. Barry Corey dedicated an entire chapel (the last chapel of the year) to responding to our group. It was so hurtful and misinformed in a number of ways. At one point Dr. Corey even called us Pharisees. We recorded parts of the audio on our phone. We transcribed the part about us being Pharisees:

“We will not be in agreement with those who see sexual relationships legitimized in same sex couples. Biola’s position will not satisfy those in the LGBTQ community. I am willing to live with this level of disagreement. … God is calling us to a life of purity and holiness … . We’re called always to retreat to the cross where repentance and forgiveness happens, surrendering my will every day to Christ’s will. These are the people who Jesus received, right? He always received the sinner, the struggler, who came to Him with an open heart to be forgiven, and be called His disciple. This is how Jesus still is.

Who did He [Jesus] rise up in anger and not receive? Those who quoted scripture like the Pharisees, who wanted to legitimize a certain way of life that Jesus said was not right.” *

See below my responses to these words of the good Dr. Corey.

“We will not be in agreement with those who see sexual relationships legitimized in same sex couples. So this sets off an alarm in my head. Less for what it says (though of course that also sets bells ringing) than for how foggily it says it. When people who at the moment are invested in coming across as thoughtful and/or spiritually sound begin to say something which at some level inside of themselves they know to be aggressively crazy, they almost always right away use language that is seriously tweaked, if not outright incomprehensible. While these words aren’t entirely incomprehensible, they’re also spoken by the president of a university. All in all, this is akin to Mohammed Ali in his prime dancing out from his corner at the first bell of a championship fight, immediately stumbling over his own two feet, and then, as he falls, punching himself in the head. At any rate, Dr. Corey seems to be saying that homosexual sex is “illegitimate.” I’m sure that will come as puzzling news to anyone who, in the course of homosexual sex, has ever climaxed.

“Biola’s position will not satisfy those in the LGBTQ community. And the Most Obvious Statement of the Year award goes to … .

“I am willing to live with this level of disagreement. Of course you’re willing to live with it, you rump-chapeau: you have all the power. You’re like the tiger dangling the mouse over its mouth who says, “I am hungry, while you would rather not be eaten. But I find that I can live with that level of disagreement. So all is well.”

“God is calling us to a life of purity and holiness … .  We’re called always to retreat to the cross where repentance and forgiveness happens, surrendering my will every day to Christ’s will.  Interesting use of the word retreat. And why on earth do we have this sudden switch from our will to my will? Inexplicable! Until, that is, you imagine this whole speech being delivered by a man inside of a closet.

“These are the people who Jesus received, right? He always received the sinner, the struggler, who came to Him with an open heart to be forgiven, and be called His disciple. This is how Jesus still is. Ah. Like an eclipse of the son sun happening right on time, Dr. Corey here trots out the now ubiquitous meme of what I call the CRAPPIES (Christians Reacting Against Patriarchal Privileges Increasingly and Everywhere Subsiding). He is equating being gay with being impure, unholy, in need for repentance and forgiveness. This is the three-sided blade that today’s CRAPPIES invariably slip between the ribs of gay people. “We love the sinner, but hate the sin,” they say as they withdraw the knife that causes the wound that will not close. “Being prone to homosexuality,” they say, “is no different than is being prone to any other sin.” I call bullshit.

“Who did He [Jesus] rise up in anger and not receive?  And boom: there it is. There’s the absolute, unmistakable, all-powerful, violence-implying, bald-faced, sickeningly inevitable threat. Right there, up in the pulpit, pretending to care about nothing so much as extending the love of Christ, is every encouragement any bully could ever need to viciously hound, beat to a pulp, or push to suicide a desperately forlorn gay person. Such actions are, after all, nothing less than the will of the God who will “rise up in anger, and refuse to receive” gay people. This is the odious black magic that transmogrifies God’s love into man’s hate.

“Those who quoted scripture like the Pharisees, who wanted to legitimize a certain way of life that Jesus said was not right.” Speaking of ignorant. Does Dr. Corey actually not know who the Pharisees were? Is he unaware that the Pharisees were arrogant, self-righteous religious authorities whom Jesus roundly denounced for their consistent refusal to put compassion above dogma, love above the law, mercy over man-made rules? That it was the Pharisees who routinely scorned the very people whom Jesus sought out? That it was the Pharisees against whom Jesus rose up in anger—that it was the Pharisees whom Jesus did not receive?

And as for Jesus saying that “a certain way of life” was not right?

Dr. Corey: Jesus never uttered a word about homosexuality.

But the problem is not that you’re unaware of that. The problem is that you don’t care about it to anywhere near the degree that, God knows, you should.


* When in response to this note I asked the student how he/she and the BQU group was doing, the reply was, “The day of chapel was so difficult, and sitting in chapel was practically unbearable for most of us. I’m personally doing okay, but some in the group took it pretty hard.”

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About John Shore

John Shore (who, fwiw, is straight) is the author of UNFAIR: Christians and the LGBT Question, and three other great books. He is co-founder of The NALT Christians Project and founder of Unfundamentalist Christians (on Facebook here). His blog is here. His website is JohnShore.com. John is a pastor ordained by The Progressive Christian Alliance. You're invited to like John's Facebook page. And don't forget to sign up for his mucho awesome monthly newsletter.

  • Kirk Childress via Facebook

    “rump-chapeau” — love it. thanks. going to add it to my favorite euphemisms next to “guano crazy.”

    • Soulmentor

      I had to research the meaning. Couldn’t find rump-chapeau, but found chapeau. Voila!!!! Rump = ass. Chapeau = “a French term signifying a hat or other covering for the head. In mainland European heraldry, it is used as a mark of ecclesiastical dignity, especially that of cardinals, which is called the red chapeau.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapeau

      What appropriate irony. An asshat!!!!!!!!!! John, you’re brilliant…..but we all know that.

  • Bryan

    Bravo.

  • http://www.facebook.com/tracy.livezey Tracy Livezey via Facebook

    Great analysis.

  • Susan

    One of my favorite Anne Lamott quotes: “You can safely assume that you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”

    • Jamie

      That is a perfect yardstick, there, Susan. Thanks!

      Jamie

  • Kathleen

    I really wish that Dr. Corey would go by what Jesus said about homosexuality!

  • C

    “Who did He [Jesus] rise up in anger and not receive?” PEOPLE LIKE YOU, President!!!!!! speechless

  • Jamie Stanek via Facebook

    Him calling the LGBT community Pharisees is like the GOP saying the Left is waging a war on women!

  • Kristyn

    Dr. Corey. Where are your words of compassion for the students who are trying to grow in their faith, while coming to terms with who they are? When I attended a Christian college, an LGBT student attempted suicide, because they weren’t getting appropriate counseling–or a message of compassion and acceptance. Will it take someone actually killing themself, on your campus, for your eyes to be opened? I sincerely, sincerely hope not!

    • http://deep.mastersfamily.org BJohnM

      Sadly Kristyn, that wouldn’t even do it. I am about 99.99% sure that the good Dr. Corey would sooth himself with the healing balm offered up by Tony Perkins, (to paraphrase) “That young person killed himself/herself because he/she was gay and knew it was wrong.”

      Sad but true.

      • Kristyn

        Sadly, you’re exactly right. Hopefully soon, dogmatists, like Dr. Corey, will fade away and retire, and a new generation of truly Christ-like, compassionate, gracefilled people can take the helm.

      • Lymis

        “…. and if only they had trusted Jesus enough to repent and come to us in humility, we would have embraced them and supported them on their journey to healing from the sin of homosexuality.”

        As in, “We’re not bullies. They just didn’t have enough faith.”

        • http://MaleSurvivor.org John Carson

          …cuz we all know that it always absolves a professing Christian of guilt by blaming the victim.

        • Christelle

          spiritual manipulation. projection. spiritual manipulaters are able to project their own attributes so well on their victims.

  • BC Erickson via Facebook

    Well written as always, John. Thank you.

  • Kimberly Moser Musci Phillips via Facebook

    Dr. Freud had some insights into ego-defense mechanisms that this guy should’ve studied up on…but the bigger ?? here is why are these young people spending thousands of dollars to be abused under the guise of “higher education”?

    • Soulmentor

      Your question reminds me of the oxymoron know as Gay Republicans and upstanding Republican voters blindly voting for an blatantly inveterate liar like Romney. Sometimes one can only look on in wonder.

  • Blind Boy Belvedere

    Dig that picture of Dr. Corey! Bill Murray is leading a secret life as president of a Christian college.

    • Soulmentor

      Yeah, I thought he looked familiar too.

  • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

    I do wonder if people like Dr. Corey truly understand the concept of being “wise as snakes, harmless as doves.”; If he and others ever gave a thought to the concept that the kinds of people Jesus frequently kept company with made a lot of people quite uncomfortable, but yet he didn’t seem to care about social hierarchy, religious strata, income level, political or religious affiliation or what was “acceptable company for an itinerant rabbi. He seemed to genuinely care about them all.

    I do wonder that if we are supposed to be followers of Jesus and to try to emulate how he interacted with people, why it is more common to instead say “Jesus loves you, this I know…well except you over there, and you there in the corner, and definitely not you..”

    I find that so extraordinarily sad that such mindsets exist.

    • Lymis

      As I understand it, the idea is that while Jesus did, in fact, hang out with sinners, they obviously all repented and stopped sinning as a result. The usual reason why LGBT people are excluded from the “love the sinner” part is that we are not only sinners, but we are unrepentant sinners who intend to keep on sinning, which apparently ticks them off – seems they have a severely limited supply of love and don’t want to waste it on the ungrateful.

      Of course, you can make a case that the Gospel is silent on the matter of whether the sinners in question did or didn’t repent and change their lives – that “then neither shall I condemn you, go and sin no more” being interpreted as “since I trust you to sin no more, I won’t condemn you” (with wiggle room for, “and if I ever find out you have kept sinning, then you’re really in for it. I know people.”)

      But that doesn’t actually work, because people are recorded as saying that Jesus hung out with sinners and tax-collectors, not with “all those people who used to be sinners but seem to have gotten their lives in order since they met Jesus.”

      • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

        Of course! Its the old stand by. Making the assumption that one is forever and hence an “ex-sinner”, meaning they found it completely impossible to sin, which of course ain’t the case at all.

        And considering that the culture in Jesus day had plenty of arguments as to just what constituted sin and a sinner. I can easily imaging that the confusion ended up being a more permanent conundrum.

        I just prefer to think of how Jesus didn’t seem to disqualify whom he had dinner with by the “sin tally” that someone had tacked up somewhere.

        • Kate

          “…the culture in Jesus day had plenty of arguments as to just what constituted sin and a sinner.” This is true. In Jesus’ day, breaking the Sabbath, eating with unwashed hands, and having physical contact with sick, bleeding or dead people constituted ‘sin’. Yet Jesus did all of these. This does not make Jesus a sinner, but shows that ‘sin’ as defined by people probably bears little resemblance to God’s understanding of what constitutes ‘sin’. When asked which was the most important law, Jesus replied, “Love God. Love each other”. This radical redefinition of ‘sin’ as anything that is not done out of love for God and love for neighbour is what we should have in mind in everything we do and say.

          • http://deep.mastersfamily.org BJohnM

            The problem Kate, is they have an argument to cover your argument. That’s where the old standby comes in. They love LGBT people, and because of that they must try to save them from their sin, obviously by threatening them with eternal damnation.

            A couple of years ago my lover and me went to his families farm down in Ruskin, FL on Easter Sunday afternoon. I’d run into the little town there looking for something, and on a busy street corner was a young man with a pretty big sign exemplifying sin. In the picture was a “sinner” in front of Jesus. The sinner was all tattered and bloody. Jesus was looking away and pointing this person towards hell. I know this is obvious to many, but this is the first time this thought hit me. (And believe, having grown up in a small southern town, I’ve been exposed to my share of hell fire and brimstone revival preaching.) What a terrible form of Christianity, and I was truly overcome with sorrow for this young man.

            The entire foundation of his religious life was based on a desire to avoid eternal damnation…not just a matter of doing good and loving God and others, not because that will give you a happy life, but a religious doctrine based on fear. I think that’s what Jesus came to save us from, but people like this learned man use fear anyway.

            What a small pitiful life this guy must lead, to have no better enticement than fear.

          • Kate

            The other part of my comment, which I may not have emphasised enough, is that the stories of Jesus’ actions show that his understanding of what constitutes ‘sin’ is clearly not related to humanity’s. We are barking up the wrong tree if we think that we can point to someone else’s actions and call it ‘sin’, let alone name that person ‘sinner’. That is not our call, but God’s. We are called to love and love and love. It is hard work and risky, but that is the God-space. That is what Jesus modelled.

          • http://deep.mastersfamily.org BJohnM

            I really do get your point Kate, I’m just saying they always have an answer. I assure you Corey would call out a couple of scriptures (God forbid, but taken out of context anyways…I’m looking at you Biola Student) in which God commands him to call out sin for what it is…to point out the transgressions of others. Oh, and he’ll leave out the verse about first removing the log from your own eye.

          • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

            You are right BJohnM. The kicker that I think that people like Biola Student just are having such a hard time grasping, is that others don’t have to fall in behind such mindsets. They don’t get to pick how our souls, our sins, our way of lives do not get the final yay or nay when it comes to the “God Score” card.

            Why?

            Cause I think that God doesn’t play by our rules. For that I am delightfully grateful.

      • Nicole

        I love both of these comments. Thank you, sdparris and Lymis.

  • Sam

    The clear bias of this article is deeply disappointing. Corey’s words and tone are neither threatening or bullying, and any perception of such is read into his statements while taking them out of the context of Biola’s public statement on human sexuality, their student code of conduct and their call to remain in loving relationship with those that are struggling with sexual issues (homosexual and heterosexual alike). John Shore does the homosexual community (and the Christian community) a huge diservice in posting hit pieces like this.

    • Lymis

      Snort.

      Corey’s words most definitely are threatening. Those of us who grew up with those threats and often still face them see them very clearly for what they are. And that the tone is clearly designed to create plausible deniability for the underlying threats.

      Yes, the threats are unspecified. What exactly does “we will not be in agreement” mean, coming from the President of the school? Polite disagreement, like thinking that the color of your shirt isn’t as flattering as you seem to think? Or “when we find out who you are, and count on it, we will, you’ll be out of here in as much disgrace as we can arrange”?

      Being gay is not a sexual issue. And the struggle is rarely with being gay, but far more often with people who aren’t gay but see it as a problem, and insist on inflicting that on others.

      What in the world about this disappoints you? Every sentence of your post just drips condescension and bias. “I’m not a bigot, I’m just sad.”

      Nice try though. Points for effort.

      • Soulmentor

        Nah. Undeserving of even that.

        • Lymis

          True. I was being polite.

          Can we at least give hugs, like at the Special Olympics?

    • http://www.unchainedfaith.com Amy

      Trust me, even as a straight person, I recognize the speech as threatening. A couple of weeks ago, I was threatened the same way for being a vocal ally/advocate at church. I was told that my church would “never hate the gays” (yes, exactly like that-insert eye roll) but that this is a “very important issue for the church.” Yes, so important that in one sermon, the pastor detailed kinky sex and claimed that it was a “perversion” created by gay people (I swear I am not making this up). In another sermon, he trotted out the old “you’re gay because daddy was weak/absent and mommy was an overbearing shrew” fake psychology from circa 1951. I was told that since I work with teens, I am obligated to repeat this load of crap to the kids to show that I “support” church doctrine. Never mind the fact that this swill isn’t even found in the Bible, I’m supposed to agree with it or be asked to step down. Of course, the pastor and the person who threatened me have no idea that a few senior staffers are on my side, and we are all quietly subverting their “authority.” So, yeah, what Biola’s president said was absolutely a veiled threat.

    • DR

      Your beliefs about homosexuality contribute to gay kids killing themselves. That you actually believe the “love the sinner, hate the sin” message is “supportive” is because you need it to be. Being gay is not a sin. It does not destroy anyone. It leads to love and the desire for a partner and a family. You’re destroying the GLBT community and we’re just not going to allow you to do it anymore.

    • Mindy

      Sam, I’m a straight woman, I’m probably older than Dr. Corey, have my own graduate degrees, and have been around the proverbial block more than twice. Trust me, his words were most assuredly threatening. Which, by definition then, makes them bullying.

      Most importantly, though, are you a member of the LGBTQ community – at Biola or otherwise? Because if not, if you are regular ol’ straight dude, you have absolutely no right to say whether those words were threatening or not. Because how would you know? They aren’t directed at you. You’ve never once in your straight life had to feel the hate, the disgust, the loathing that those young people felt sitting there listening to him. THEY felt bullied. All of them. Some of them were devastated by it. So regardless of YOUR opinion, he bullied, he threatened. No one’s opinion matters all except those who were damaged by it. Well, and those of us who care about them – which, I’m guessing, you don’t.

      • Christelle

        As a Biola alumni… I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for this, Mindy. As a Fundi alumni… I am deeply saddened… Saddened at (by) how this kind of speech is what causes deep depression, suicide, and questions as to how much God truly loves EVERYONE equally and without question of one’s sexuality… sigh, I am just so disappointed right now. As a Biola Alumni and Fundi Alumni, I am so, truly sorry for this ridiculousness and for this ignorance… I am sorry that this ridiculousness is so very hurtful … Biola Queer Underground: You ARE LOVED and I am on your side. I will keep sending letters, for all it’s worth. I am so very sorry.

  • K (aka Caring Heart)

    I was JUST thinking about the Biola students today and wondering how they were doing and then your post showed up! Wow, I love your response to each phrase John – really sharp.

    I hope it gives the students some comfort. I’m sorry for the hurt he made them feel.

    Stay strong students – you have your whole life ahead of you and it WILL get better!

  • allthosenames

    Your comments are so devoid of the fruits of the Spirit in tone, attitude and content as to make it abudantly clear by them alone that He does not dwell in or with you, which explains the completely false nature of what you say- you have not been led into the truth by the Spirit because He’s not with you to lead you, but into error by the enemy.

    You can ‘believe in Jesus’ but never have recieved Him/the Spirit through admission of and repentance of your sins . Being as you contantly encourage people in a wide variety of sinful activity here, especially the sex-related type, you can say you believe Jesus existed/exists, but clearly you never encountered yourself in the light of his holiness/purity and found out that the things you trumpet are sinful. Sex of any description outside marriage is repeatedly called sin in scripture so it is ridiculous to assert otherwise. But you encourage people in all manner of sexual sins, in fornication of all varieties with members of the same sex or opposite sex and say God doesn’t mind. Fruit doesn’t lie and the fruit of your ‘work’ here is to encourage sexual sin, among other types of sin you encourage.

    So then, all this taken into account makes it clear that the title false teacher can be accurately affixed to YOU.

    • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

      Uhm….Huh???

    • Melody

      Wow. That may be the biggest load of hot air I’ll see all day.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

        I wish. But one can hope!

    • Josie

      The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Galatians 5:22

      Please tell me where the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity and gentleness are in your words. I understand that you THINK you’re showing faithfulness and self control–I don’t agree–but the rest are sorely lacking.

      Your attitude toward your LGBTQ brothers and sisters is one of the things wrong with Christianity today–and I say that as a deeply committed Christian and–not that it matters–a straight woman. You do NOT get to decide upon whom the spirit rests–Jesus was pretty clear about that. In fact, he said a whole lot more about hatred, judgement and hypocrisy than he ever did about homosexuality. Which was NOTHING. You’d think if it were so important he would have talked about it once or twice. He sure talked about love a lot…open your mind and heart and try it sometime…

      • Melody

        Awesome, Josie. Thanks for this.

        • vj

          I second that!

    • Diana A.

      Points for being honest about who you are, Legion.

      • http://www.barnmaven.com Barnmaven

        lawl

      • Gordon

        As John would say, HAR!

    • http://kingmaalbert@hotmail.com Al

      allthosenames, eh? Could you be any more anonymous? It’s fine if you wish to make a dissenting point of view, but at least do so in a way that makes it clear that it’s your point of view. Judging John as being “devoid of the fruits of the Sprit” and accusing him of being led “into error by the enemy” -this is just cryptic mumbo-jumbo that you’re hiding behind. If you disagree with John’s arguments, feel free to state your case. If you truly believe that all sexual acts, outside of marriage, are disapproved of by God, then reference that. Don’t speak in generalities as though the truth is self-evident because it isn’t.

    • Lymis

      John, clearly, you can’t be holy or know anything about Jesus, because you don’t speak in “sacred.” You aren’t allowed to just talk about God like it all makes sense, you have to phrase things using holy vocabulary.

      I think allhosenames was restraining nameself mightily by not lapsing into “thee and thou” with a side order of “unto.”

      Because if you had ever received the Holy Spirit, you’d talk all funny.

    • http://deep.mastersfamily.org BJohnM

      I have one and only one serious question for you allthosenames. Are you so absolutely certain you know the mind of God that you never consider the possibility that your biblical interpretation could be wrong, and a person trained in theology and the ministry might be more accurate than you?

      Before you answer, I’d remind you that the Bible is clear about people who claim to know the mind of God.

    • DR

      I had no idea that the gift of discernment extended to the internet!

    • Ryan

      Allthose, really, just once please show me were it condemns Ruth when she gave Boaz the ride of his life on the threshing-room floor (after a hard night of drinking on his part, nonetheless) so that she could convince him to marry her. I would like to see it. Also, Esther. Part of her impressing the king very much had to do with her bedroom performance when she had her “one night” with the king. Again, both of these sex outside of marriage instances seem to be highly ignored from the pulpit.

      • http://kingmaalbert@hotmail.com Al

        And, lest we forget, in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah Lot offers his two virgin daughters to the townspeople. Evidently the rape of two girls is fine if it prevents the rape of holy angels.

    • Bruce Strine

      allthosenames….is this “Pastor” Charles Worley from North Carolina?

    • http://Www.unnameablecuriosity.wordpress.com Christine

      Speaking of ad homenim attacks…

      Besides the complete lack of understanding of sex in the bible and what the concept of “fruits” means… (we judge what is sin by fruits not who is sinful by the “fruit” of whether or not they agree with your idea of sin…). Sheesh.

    • Soulmentor

      And George Will called Donald Trump a “bloviating ignoramous”!!!! He hasn’t read YOUR convoluted diatribe!!

  • p.

    Small point, but isn’t it fun to do text crit on a speech?

    “Who did He [Jesus] rise up in anger and not receive?” I had to read this a few times, but I think he means “Jesus didn’t rise up in anger and refuse to receive someone.” But its another crazy sentence.

    So, guess I didn’t read that sentence quite as John does.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

      He answers the question he poses with this sentence in its following sentence. The full quote: “Who did He [Jesus] rise up in anger and not receive? Those who quoted scripture like the Pharisees, who wanted to legitimize a certain way of life that Jesus said was not right.”

      • Nicole

        I suppose it should’ve been “Who did He rise up in anger AGIN and not receive?”

        ;)

        • vj

          ;-)

    • Michael M

      It is a very clumsy sentence. This awkward syntax common in people who spend a lot of time reading the King James translation. He’s trying to adapt the cadence of “biblical” English into his sermon. The giveaway is the term “rise up in anger”–no one says “rise up” in modern usage, but the KJV uses it hundreds of times, and it is often in a violent context: Matthew 10:21 “The children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.” Mark 3:26 “And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.” There are dozens of quotes from the OT referring to actual warfare.

      The KJV also frequently uses the construction: SUBJECT VERB “and not” VERB. In that construction, the “not” modifies only the second verb, not the whole sentence: Genesis 18:24 “Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?” Mark 4:12 “That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.”

      So he’s saying Jesus DID rise up in anger, Jesus DID NOT receive them.

      But truly, truly, I say unto thee: this man knoweth not the word of the LORD, nor knoweth he the guile of the King’s English.

  • Andrew Raymond via Facebook

    Gives a whole new meaning to the term ‘Bully Pulpit’, doesn’t it?

  • Nicole

    I am just stunned that he is so blind. The Pharissees were the religious leaders. Just like him. Bizarre.

    He sounds to me like someone questioning what they believe. I remember when I began to question the church’s teaching on homosexuality. Any time I tried to say how homosexuality was wrong, I’d get all tangled up in my words because my heart and my head were at odds with each other. I couldn’t put into words how Jesus’ love and sacrifice on the cross could in any way gel with persecution of the very people for whom he died. I’m really grateful for John and everyone who comments on this blog for helping me mature and become the straight ally I am. :)

  • http://www.barnmaven.com Barnmaven

    Unfortunately I think people like Dr. Corey can’t really change – not yet, anyway. They are where they are. I’ve been caught up lately in Spiral Dynamics theory, and one of the more interesting applications (which I am applying to some organizational changes and varying mematic systems where I work) is that people have to be exactly where they are at. You can’t force them to change, because the way that they think is dictated by their experiences and the systems/cultures they live within. What you can do is introduce life conditions that create the avenue for change. Dr. Corey is as incapable of understanding John’s point of view as a snake is of understanding what a bicycle is for. On the surface, at least, he is not in a change state. He is very stuck in his rules-based, exquisitely heirarchical blue meme. If the conditions of his existence change to the point where the pressures on him cause biopsychosocial changes in his thinking patterns, then me may be able to understand what we see as objectionable in his speech and his overt homophobia.

    Until then, John’s words are very hopefully beginning to sink in to others who might be further along the spiral. At the very least, the LGBT community can know they have ardent and loving defenders amongst the Christians.

  • Robert

    As long as an Orthodox Christian believe that they believe the bible as the “literal” word of god… then they will have to condemn all gays/lesbians/bi’s/transgender to hell.

    It does not matter that they don’t actually follow the bible literally… (Most Orthodox Christians use the bible like a Chinese menu… selecting this or that to follow… ignoring the rest… as they eat their shrimp cocktails).

    Logic and reason and pointing out the very apparent problems in the biblical text won’t help… (Where did Cain’s Wife come from and what about the “giants” mentioned in the Old Testament).

    Talking with Orthodox Christians about the history of the Bible itself won’t help… (like the basic fact that the old testament was consolidate in the 7th century b.c. and was the blending of a few oral traditions, not just one, placing Juda in the center.)

    Because most Orthodox Christians have not read the bible. They have only listened to their ministers preach the word of God. They rarely examine those words themselves and if they do, they do it in bible classes which are directed by their ministers.

    Most Orthodox Christians don’t believe in the “bible”; they believe in their Ministers. Which gives their minister lots of power. But most Orthodox Christians are more than happy to have gays/lesbians/bi’s/transgenders/Jews/Catholics/Mormons/ Mulsims/ Hindus/Buddhists/etc. condemned to hell. It means that they are right… that they are part of the “in” group.

    But this is true for Orthodox Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Orthodox Muslims, Orthodox Mormons, etc and every other “exclusive” religious tradition. All these Orthodox religious traditions reinforce an “Us vs. Them” mentality; believes they have “THE” answer and others “DON’T”; and they seeks “Win/Loose” strategies; not “Win/Win” ones. In the end, the religions all sounds good but unfortunately… where ever there is absolute power… (Like the power to condemn others to hell as you exalt yourself to the heaven…) there will be abuse and corruption.

    This is what most agnostics dislike about all religions, esp orthodox ones… the arrogance, corruption, lack of humility and humanity that they seem to naturally generate.

    Robert

    • Paul

      I agree with much of what you’ve said here, but I would caution you about your use of the word “Orthodox” (with a capital O) to describe American Protestants (which is what it sounds like you are describing). That word generally denotes members of the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church’s slightly-less-popular twin sister. Most Eastern Orthodox Christians that I know would be upset at your comparison of them to the Bible-thumping WASPs of the U.S.

      • DR

        Most non-Christians are pretty over us trying to get everyone to care that we’re offended that we’re being lumped in as part of the religious “bad guy”. No one outside of us really cares about what flavor of Christian we happen to be – in conversations like these, people simply want us to stop this kind of abusive rhetoric. Let’s start caring less about our offense and more about the damage our collective “Christian” tent is doing to this community.

      • Robert

        My idea was to describe a state of mind not to link them to a particular church… hence my statement “Orthodox Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Orthodox Muslims, Orthodox Mormons, etc and every other “exclusive” religious tradition. ” I thought I was being clear, but obviously I wasn’t.

        Also, from my understanding the Eastern Othodox Church (http://www.holy-trinity.org/morality/homosexuality.html), they would naturally be linked to “bible thumping protestants” when it comes to issues of following the bible blindly and their attitudes regarding homosexuality. Also pointing out the obvious often leads to people being upset… but that is not a good enough reason not to point these connections out.

        Lastly… I am not sure that all the bible thumpers in the United States are White Anglo-Saxons… they appear to come from many nationalities and ethnic groups.

    • http://Www.unnameablecuriosity.wordpress.com Christine

      “As long as an Orthodox Christian believe that they believe the bible as the “literal” word of god… then they will have to condemn all gays/lesbians/bi’s/transgender to hell.”

      Actually, you don’t. “Literal” is not sufficient. You can have a literal bible and still view homosexuality as not problematic. (You *may* still have to view wives as slaves, and condone slavery generally, along with genocide and mass child killings…. but that’s another discussion.) You practically have to subscribe to a particular infallible *translation* for it to be inevitable. Much of the problem is translation.

      Which boils down to an underlying desire on the part of at least a large number of people who *want* to view homosexuality as sin, and a bunch of other people who trust that those people are offering a “biblical” view, because there are already some troublesome authority issues present. Bottom line: it might be hard to blame this one on the bible or a specific view of it. If you want to redefine your “orthodoxy” as fear of difference and deference to authority, though, you might be on to something.

  • Biola Student

    Dr. Corey did NOT call the LGBTQ community, or the BQU, pharisees — he made the statement that pharisees took scripture out of context and Biola will not be in agreement with scripture taken out of context. Therefore, anyone (including myself who is not in the LGBTQ community at Biola) could be considered a pharisee if I was to take scripture out of context. Dr. Corey is stating that Biola will stand firm in scripture. It is pretty clear. However, your sarcasm is an immediate and unintelligent response that falls short. If you hope to make a difference in this conversation, I recommend you form an intellectual response as to why those who take scripture out of context are not like the pharisees. Ad hominem arguments fall short at a certain point. It is obvious Dr. Corey would not be the president of Biola if he didn’t know who the pharisees really were — it’s a comparison of traits. It’s not that a person actually is that person or has all of his/her attributes, you get the main character points of that person and what they were like. And he’s not even saying that the members of BQU are pharisees. He is making the statement that Biola is sticking to its founding principles that the Word is the foundation for truth and must not be taken out of context.

    Also, you have looked at one portion of the chapel service and taken it out of the context of love and compassion which was reflected in the message. I recommend you look at the entire chapel service before making a response in the future.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

      BS: You said, “I recommend you look at the entire chapel service before making a response in the future.” Is it available online? I certainly searched high and low for it. Give us the link to it if you have it.

      Also–as I’m sure you understand–I only have this transcription. If these are the actual words that Corey used, then this is my response to them.

      And I’m truly glad to hear that you have no interest in considering the words of the Bible outside of their context. You will then, I trust, be at least a little interested in this.

      • Kristyn

        I haven’t seen the full transcript, either, but I’m willing to bet it will only be more of the same, “Love the sinner, hate the sin” jargon. “The word is the truth”–which means we ain’t budging on our interpretation of the Bible, no matter who suffers! I graduated from Messiah College, which, like Biola, is a member of the CCCU. Messiah’s stance is that one can be gay and attend the school, but, according to the Community Covenant, “Homosexual behavior” is grounds to be disciplined. Critics maintain that it’s like saying, “we accept black people here. . . as long as they act just like the white majority.” It sends a terrible message of inequality to the LGBT students, and it doesn’t promote authenticity and spiritual growth. Infact, it can cause a great deal of pain. Like I mentioned before, an LGBT Messiah student attempted suicide, during my time there.

      • doodle

        Strangely all I had to do was go to the Biola website and put in the search terms ‘homosexual” and “May 17″ (the date it was delivered) and it came up. Not hard to find at all.

        • Lymis

          I don’t see it when I do that. Do you have a direct link? I see a report about the talk (which was given on May 18, but no full transcript comes up searching by either date.

        • Diana A.

          Okay. I just tried doing the same thing and nothing. Maybe only Biola students and alumni have access? Or, maybe you could provide a link.

      • D

        The full message is available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2V0NdjoCqk (there’s also a transcript attached to the video).

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

          I’m going to let this go, because Corey’s “sermon” was infinitely worse than my worst fears that it might be. For sure, the transcript I got from the young QBU members was flawed. But I see now that was because of how much they love Corey and all he stands for—how rooted are their identities within it—rather than how wrong he was. Tragically, even THEY, I think, didn’t realize how wrong Corey was/is. Which is natural. But for now I’m going to let it go.

          • Christelle

            I know you want to let this go… but I have to get it off my chest… It’s the “NOW I MUST SPEAK AS your DAD” so that he immediately becomes your “spiritual father” speaking … sigh – I’m having flashbacks as I think this through – because THIS is how I was raised – THIS is the brainwashing that’s so hard to rid one’s self of… That false compassion that seeks to bring guilt, condemnation, and shame… So you leave this sort of sermon, or meeting, or service with you head hung low… as if you are the most miserable human being in the world… Am I wrong with what I think is true? – we ask ourselves… THIS breeds self doubt, insecurity… the absolute worst of all spiritual manipulations. This is how a leaders maintains his control. See, because God speaks through the Shepherd. The students, his flock, his children…MUST listen. Because if you don’t, you are a very very bad sheep. A black sheep. But you will be loved because the Bible says that’s what we are supposed to do… But you can never ever be your true self… You may only be the self that God has told the Anointed/apointed shepherd and the self that the shepherd intreprets the Bible to say that you should be… I guess I’m rambling… but, yes, I get what you are saying John… because instead of saying “All Gays should die” – he twists, turns, spiritually manipulates, controls to the point of the “sheep” will always live with self doubt, guilt, shame, depression, inability to live up to ‘perfection’… until they run away and deprogram… sometimes must leave all religous institutions completely for awhile… until their brains can be rid of all this clutter as exampled by Corey… yes, I get it… and hopefully… another suicide will not take place…

          • Christelle

            ***sorry about all the mispellings and gramar errors… I didn’t read it through before posting… and I hope I came across as I wanted: MY heart REALLY truly goes out to the Biola Queer Underground… and somehow, I feel responsible for them…

          • Christelle

            btw, no worries if you feel the need to delete…

          • Diana A.

            Naw, you sound really reasonable (which you probably know since John didn’t delete what you wrote.)

            I commented after I watched the link (it was posted in a different comment above,) and I admit that I actually liked him better after I watched and listened to the entire thing than I did from just reading the transcript. Obviously I’m seeing something very different from what others have seen. Maybe I’m naive, but I thought I saw some potential for bend in his position. Still, I don’t think the BQU should trust him any further than their physically weakest member can throw him. They’ve got to take care of themselves first.

          • doodle

            His sermon had many graceful words, was repsectful and the tone was not harsh or mean-spirited. He simply asserted that the university is going to stand on the Bible and can do nothing else – it’s God’s word. The University cannot change its view to accomodate those who don’t accept the Bible’s teachings but follow secular ideas instead.

          • Melody

            Spoken like a truly blind, naive fundamentalist.

          • doodle

            Aren’t you the person who makes a stink here about how others should be civil ? Unfortunatelly for you, you don’t know the ‘fundamentals’ or basics of the faith. If you did you’d know the Word speaks against sexual activitiy outside marriage, homosexual, or not. in dozens and dozens of passages. Are you pro-fornication? If you, so you’re anti-word and haven’t even grasped the basics. Youre not even drinking the milk offered, let alone ready for solid food.

            Did you read the entire article at the Biola site? The man said he was open to disussion but that the University stands on the biblical teaching on sexuality and they cannot alter that

            Compare the tone Shore’s words and compare them to Coreys and the fact that although he says he looked high and low for the entire sermon, it took me only 3 minutes to seek it 0ut and find it at the Biola site. Then after he found it he didnt bother to post it here giving a convoluted excuse.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

            People: Guess how many total aliases “Doodle” has used on this blog to post his/her comments about how good and honorable Christians should behave?

          • Diana A.

            More than there are stars in the sky?

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

            Close! Seven.

          • Melody

            Um, no. I don’t try to be civil here; I speak my mind, and I don’t back down from the truth. You’ve got me confused with someone else. At least I’m honest, which is more than I can say for you. And for the love of God, please learn how to spell and punctuate.

          • Christelle

            assuming that you are “pro-word” (because you made reference above) … and assuming that you are old testament inclined and take it as law to be used today… and, of course, this is only an assumption based on what you said in this post… and also assuming that you have thoroughly read your Bible through several times… because, in order to be the best of the best- you must… and also assuming… oh never mind… I’ll just say it… with all of your Biblical knowledge I’m absolutely positive you will be able to name every fornicator in the Bible… and therefore because you are pro-word, pro-old testament and pro- law you are also pro-fornicator… as well as pro-incest, pro- polygamy, pro- murder your girlfriend’s husband to hide that you got her pregnant, pro- have sex with some angels, and you are definitely anti- shrimp, please please, whatever you do: DO NOT EAT THE SHRIMP!!!!

            oh dear lord, i just fed the troll… but this game was slightly fun…

            I’m sorry, John, I promise… I’m done!!!

          • DR

            The Bible talks about deception and deceit coming straight from the Evil One. And here you are, faking profile name after profile name while you’re scolding someone else on their ethics.

            You people really do make me sick to my stomach. I’m sure you’ll find a reason for justifying it. You have absolutely no idea how damaging this kind of gross behavior is to the Kingdom. There are thousands of people reading this, watching you *lie* about who you are in order to scold people about the real “Truth of God”. I think you’re more than likely, emotionally disturbed and need some counseling and the compassionate side of me hopes you get it (while the other sides are completely creeped out).

          • mike moore

            “It’s God’s word.” I believe that phrase was invoked to justify keeping African Americans in slavery. Grow up. Do your homework, and then take your head out of your ass.

    • http://deep.mastersfamily.org BJohnM

      Seriously Biola Student? Really, the only way to condemn homosexuals using the Bible is to take verses out of context. Given the lack of any reasonable interpretation of the scripture which leads to hate towards gay people, or even the claim it is abominable (by the way, are you aware that in the original, the greek word translated is abominable is also used to describe the use of cheap wine at a wedding, amongst other things, not that I don’t agree serving cheap wine is a pretty abominable sin). Also, you don’t seem to dispute the words transcribed here, you claim only some misunderstanding based on context.

      John’s analysis of the context is dead one. Threatening speech has only one context. So, given that “Ad hominem” is generally used to describe an illogical fallacy, I’ have to say you are the one making an Ad hominem argument.

    • DR

      You’re defending the indefensible. What the President did which is what most Christians do in this situation – come *juuuuust short* of actually *calling* someone a “hypocrite”. They just gently infer it like this man did in this sermon.

      It’s one of the more cowardly things people like this do, they don’t want to appear to be confrontational or unkind so they wrap their message in a kind of generalist, Jesus-y candy-coated message that just stops short of actually calling a gay man or woman a hypocrite for not following his specific interpretation of Scripture (which is all this is).

      I far prefer the Pastor Worleys of the world to men like this. At least with Pastor Worley, he’s got the guts to just say what he believes without consequences. I think he’s pretty delusional but I far prefer him to this President. People like this are completely insidious and terribly dangerous. Biola is a great school academically, I know a ton of great alumni from there and there’s about to be a pretty massive impact to that school’s fund-raising as a result of this. Which is good, Christians who are no longer supporting this complete INSANITY when it comes to homosexuality need to stop funding these schools and these churches that continue to preach this kind of perversion.

    • Nicole

      Actually, in my opinion, the Pharisees took nothing “out of context.” They were poster children for following the rules of the law to the letter. They were, to use your phrasing, standing firm in scripture: following the rules of the law and demanding that everyone else do the same. And if you didn’t? You were fodder for God’s wrath. Sounds a lot like your president.

      Jesus rejected that outright. He blew it all away when he said all the law and the prophets could be summed up in this: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Who did Jesus classify as “neighbor?” The Samaritans, the ones most completely despised by the society in power. Sounds a lot like your GLBT underground.

      Stop worshipping the bible and open your heart to worship and follow the living Jesus Christ. You know you cannot follow him and still treat your brothers and sisters in Christ as less than human.

      • Neil in LA

        @ Nicole: Amen!

        • Nicole

          :)

      • Lymis

        Well said!

    • Bruce Strine

      Biola Student,

      The verses in the Bible that are taken out of context the MOST are the 6 verses people use to judge, condemn and show hatred towards the gay Christian community. If an in-depth study is made of these verses using the original Hebrew and Greek words, you find that they do not come close to representing a loving, committed relationship between two people of the same gender. Most of these verses pertain to fertility cult idol worship, especially temple cult prostitution. Some of the older translations of the Bible even use the words “temple cult prostitute”.

    • Allie

      The words are right there and the meaning is plain. You are twisting them.

      I can only conclude from this speech that Barry Corey does not believe in God or in the wrath of God he talks about so much, because anyone who did have a real belief in a real God and real repercussions for actions during this life would be afraid to misuse language like this. The devil was a liar from the beginning, and his children are the children of lies, like Dr. Corey.

    • Lymis

      “He is making the statement that Biola is sticking to its founding principles that the Word is the foundation for truth and must not be taken out of context.”

      Trust me, we understand that.

      And that one of the “founding principles” is that only an very narrow, and often hurtful and unrealistic view of human sexuality is allowable, and that excludes any form of recognizing the reality and sacredness of the relationships of gay, lesbian, or bisexual people, and excludes recognizing and honoring the realities of the lives of those who are trans.

      We completely understand that he is “sticking to its founding principles.”

      And that he is utterly and completely wrong, completely devoid of compassion, and not in the least acting in a Christ-like manner when he does so.

      Sticking by a principle that has nothing to do with “Love your neighbor” is not a good thing.

    • http://Www.unnameablecuriosity.wordpress.com Christine

      The error of the Pharisees was to heap burdens on others by using scripture. They were not trying to legitimize a “not right” way of life – the were the ones most stringently following the rules. Jesus was angry at the Pharisees for taking a view of scripture that was not sufficiently loving, merciful and compassionate. BQU students are just using a different view of scripture than yours – one that is more loving, merciful and compassionate than yours – and trying to live their lives the best way they feel they can – not trying to heap burdens on anyone else. No, he doesn’t appear to understand who the Pharisees were at all.

    • DR

      This wasn’t an ad hominem attack, Jesus made it very clear what He thought of those who held a legalistic view of Scripture as those of you at Biola do. It’s more than likely, the first time anyone’s called you on it and actually drawn that comparison. Because it hurts, you’re calling it a personal attack. That’s what people who are unable to accept responsibility for the damage they are doing to someone else do – they find a reason for rejecting the one(s) holding them accountable.

      But this isn’t going to go away for you. You need to know that. You’re going to face this here and everywhere. The heart of the stubborn never find rest.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Keasler/741629801 John Keasler via Facebook

    Thank you so much for the podcast. You’ve got a great voice for broadcast. It makes your words even more easier to access.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

      Oh, really? Well, that’s very nice to hear. I have zero idea how to, like, FIX any snafu, or whatever: I can read into the mike, and turn it into this sound-widget thing, and that’s it for now. When I play it back, it kind of makes me cringe, in the way I think most people do when hearing their recorded voice. Anyway, I’m going to proceed with these–unless they’re just not popular enough to make it worth it–so I very much appreciate this bit of encouragement. Thanks!

    • Nicole

      Agreed. Good job, John! You’ll get the hang of it. :)

  • Jeff Blackshear via Facebook

    “Jesus never uttered a word about homosexuality.”

    No, but he praised the faith of the Roman centurion and healed his “very special friend.”

  • Allie

    Wow… what a (expletive deleted). I should have realized that in Opposite Land where fundies live, fighting back against their Pharisee-ism by quoting Scripture meant you were a Pharisee. Which is it, do you stand by every single word of the Bible or not, (expletive)? I just can’t ever get used to the way they grab the truth and turn it inside out and upside down.

    Okay, here’s making it simple for you, (expletive): Jesus quoted Scripture. All the time. The difference between a Pharisee and Jesus was WHY he quoted Scripture. If you are quoting Scripture to harm others and oppose the will of God, you are a Pharisee.

    • Allie

      Okay, I’m calmer now, and so I’m going to fill in words instead of (expletive). Although rump-chapeau is a work of beauty, I would like instead to use sociopath. I believe Dr. Corey to be a sociopath, someone who has no belief in what he’s saying and therefore a freedom to misuse language that the rest of us, tied to simple things like making sense and consistency, don’t enjoy. There are two types of authoritarians, authoritarian followers, who are people who lack the ability to notice logical inconsistencies (like insisting on Biblical inerrancy, using it to justify cruelty through the enforcement of cruel laws, and calling others Pharisees), and authoritarian leaders, who are actually pretty sharp but have no moral scruples whatsoever. This speech is scruple-less. It cannot be made by someone who is a) intelligent, b) educated, and c) decent. One of the three must be missing. We have evidence that Dr. Corey is both intelligent and educated, therefore he knows exactly what he is doing, knows that it’s reprehensible, and is doing it because he knows that a large part of his audience is made up of people who don’t require him to make sense and therefore he is free to do as he likes.

      There is no rebutting someone who is like that. He can’t be argued with because he knows he is wrong. He can’t be talked out of what he’s saying because he doesn’t believe it himself. All he has to do is laugh and keep saying it, and anyone opposing him is powerless. It’s foolish to keep encountering him.

    • mike moore

      hey Allie, may I offer a few possibilities for “expletive deleted”?

      Let’s see …. dumbfuck, fucktard, douche, douchebag, weasel, trouser-snake …

      maybe something British? wanker, bugger, prat, kook, barney, and some words even I don’t have the nerve to write, but they are each four-letters, one starts with “t” and the other with “c”, get out your scrabble board …

      thanks for letting me coattail on your post.

  • Jana Harrison Currier via Facebook

    I enjoyed being able to read and listen to your words. It’s nice to be able to hear the inflection in your voice. I thought the phone interruption came at a great time – we got to hear you say “rump-chapeau” twice. Awesome!

  • mike moore

    don’t know if this is cool, John, so delete if you’d like.

    For those of who also wish to express your feelings directly: president@biola.edu

  • C

    I went a searchin’ and here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2V0NdjoCqk

    • Diana A.

      Thank you C.

      I just watched the entire 25:38 of the video. I think the meaning of some of the quotes does change when heard in the context of the entire speech. I also think that there is some give in this guy’s position. Not a lot of give, not easy give (think of him as being kind of like Brian W. or Nathan) but give never-the-less.

      Part of the problem is that the guy is a heterosexual. Therefore, he just isn’t seeing the injustice of his assertion that heterosexual people should remain chaste until marriage (to one partner of the opposite sex) and then have sex only with their spouse thereafter, while homosexual people should remain chaste for life (since, in his view, same-sex attraction is a sin.) He lacks empathy, lacks the ability (and maybe the willingness) to walk a mile in the shoes of a gay person.

      Also, I doubt that he truly understands the differences between homosexuality, bisexuality, and being transgender. I think he’s got those concepts mushed together as being all part of the same thing. And he certainly does not have a good grasp of the science behind the gender and sexual variations–in fact, I doubt he has any awareness that there are people who are intersexed.

      This is just my two cents and I could be wrong.

      • Kristyn

        Well, Dr. Corey, it seems John Shore just dragged your rump off to the serious room. Hope you’ll listen and learn something. :)

      • Lawrence Petry

        probably fair points, Diana.

        what do you mean by intersexed?

        • Melody

          What some people still call “hermaphrodite.” One person exhibiting both male and female biological features.

        • Diana A.

          Thank you, Lawrence.

          And yes, Melody’s definition of intersexed applies.

  • Soulmentor

    Perhaps a look at the Bible v Homosexuality from the viewpoint of another, I suggest profoundly more learned academic who is not just a professor and college president, but a highly respected Plummer Professor of Christian Morals at Harvard College where he was minister of the Memorial Church from 1974 until he died in Feb 2011. A benediction speaker at the Reagan inauguration and inaugural sermon presenter for Pres Bush, Peter Gomes, in his book THE GOOD BOOK, had this to say about the matter, “…NO CREDIBLE CASE AGAINST HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUALITY CAN BE MADE FROM THE BIBLE [caps mine] unless one chooses to read scripture in a way that simply sustains the existing prejudice against homosexuality and homosexuals. The combination of ignorance and prejudice under the guise of morality makes the religious community, and its abuse of scripture in this regard, itself morally culpable.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_J._Gomes The operative word there is “chooses”. Which begs the question of WHY one would make the choice of prejudice over intellectual integrity.

    BiolaStudent, I’ll put this scholarly, enlightened Harvard theologian up against your pathetically ignorant, small minded Biola President-nobody any day. Get a copy of Peter Gomes’ book and while your at it, a copy of WHAT THE BIBLE REALLY SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY by Daniel Helmeniak, a former Catholic priest. If you read them with honest intellectual integrity, you will never think the same again. It will rock your narrow, insulated world which is, of course, what fundamentalist “Bible Believers” are afraid of.

    • Lymis

      There you go with all that logic and scholarship and compassion and stuff again.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

        Love it, Lymis (and Soul!)

    • K (aka Caring Heart on fb)

      Love this too! I have the Helmeniak book. Glad to know about the Gomes book now. In fact, I would LOVE to collect a list of references somewhere. I was actually thinking under John’s “The Best Case for the Bible NOT Condemning Homosexuality ” link. I will go start that now.

      Please stop by and add to the list everyone.

      Thanks!

      • Soulmentor

        *On homosexuality in general:

        CHRISTIANITY, SOCIAL TOLERANCE AND HOMOSEXUALITY and SAME-SEX UNIONS IN PRE-MODERN EUROPE – John Boswell (heavy scholarship)

        HOMOPHOBIA, How We All Pay The Price – Warren J. Blumenfeld

        THE CHURCH AND THE HOMOSEXUAL – John J. McNeill

        THOU SHALT NOT LOVE – Patrick M. Chapman,PhD

        COMING OUT SPIRITUALLY – Christian de la Huerta

        A PLACE AT THE TABLE and STEALING JESUS – Bruce Bawer

        GAYS UNDER GRACE – Maury Johnston

        WRESTLING WITH THE ANGEL – Brian Bouldrey

        STRANGER AT THE GATE – Mel White (former ghost writer for Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others)

        VIRTUALLY NORMAL and LOVE UNDETECTABLE – Andrew Sullivan

        IS IT A CHOICE? – Eric Marcus

        * Novels that will move your heart:

        THE FRONT RUNNER, HARLAN’S RACE, BILLY’S BOY – Patricia Nell Warren

        BORROWED TIME and LAST WATCH OF THE NIGHT – Paul Monette

        ANONYMITY – Susan Bergman

        THE FAMILY HEART, A Memoir of When Our Son Came Out – Robb Forman Dew

        * To help you understand what’s going on inside you:

        THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED and THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED AND BEYOND – M. Scott Peck

        CARE OF THE SOUL and SOULMATES and THE SOUL OF SEX – Thomas Moore

        THE ALPHABET VERSUS THE GODDESS – Leonard Shlain

        ORIGINAL BLESSING – Matthew Fox

        *History:

        THE MEN WITH THE PINK TRIANGLE – Heinz Hager

        HIDDEN FROM HISTORY – Edited by Martin Duberman, Martha Vicinus & George Chauncey, Jr.

        MAKING HISTORY, The Struggle for Gay and Lesbian Equal Rights – Eric Marcus

        OUT OF ALL TIME – Terry Boughner

        * Military:

        HONOR BOUND – Joseph Steffan

        COMING OUT UNDER FIRE – Allan Berube

        *Religion:

        THE GOOD BOOK – Peter Gomes

        WHY CHRISTIANITY MUST CHANGE OR DIE – Episcopal Bishop(ret) John Shelby Spong

        WHEN JESUS BECAME GOD – Richard E Rubenstein

        HISTORY OF GOD – Karen Armstrong

        THE BIRTH OF CHRISTIANITY – John Dominic Crossan

        RELIGION GONE BAD, The Hidden Dangers of the Christian Right – Mel White (former ghost writer for Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others)

        NOAH’S FLOOD – William Ryan & Walter Pitman

        THE HISTORY OF HEAVEN – Jeffrey Burton Russell

        THE ORIGIN OF SATAN – Elaine Pagels

        CRAZY FOR GOD – Frank Schaeffer (son of one of the founders of the American Fundamentalist movement)

        THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT IS WRONG – Robin Meyers

        MISQUOTING JESUS, The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why – Bard D Ehrman

        CHRISTIANITY AFTER RELIGION, The End of the Church and the Birth of a New Spiritual Awakening – Diana Butler Bass

        I have read all these books and three times that many others. And DON’T LOSE SIGHT OF JOHN’S BOOKS, equal additions to this stellar list of authors.

        Now I gotta go do dishes and prepare to get to town to work the phones to recall Walker. It’s gonna be a nail-biter, which I find to be a dismaying indictment of the intellectual integrity and broader political perspectives of so many Wisconites.

        • Gordon

          Now I know what I’ll be reading until Ken Follett FINALLY releases the next edition of the Millennium Series!

        • http://Www.unnameablecuriosity.wordpress.com Christine

          That’s quite a list.

          I would add Jack Rogers’ “Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church”.

          • SeattleKim

            Also, a very good book called Gay By God, by Michael Piazza.

          • Kerry

            Thanks Kim

          • Kerry

            Thanks Christine

        • Kerry

          Soulmentor,

          Thanks so much for this detailed reply. I missed seeing it earlier for some reason so I’m sorry I didn’t thank you earlier.

          I really appreciate it.

          I think I have only read a couple on your list plus John’s “Unfair” book.

          I also have several of the books listed in the resources at Canyonwalkers

          http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/resources/

          There really is a lot out there. The big question is, how do we get the other side to read any of them?

  • Kristyn Whitaker Hood via Facebook

    The Council for Christian Colleges and Universities isn’t helping matters much:http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/02/03/christian-college-presidents-discuss-what-do-about-sexuality With One Wheaton, Messiah Inclusive Alumni, Bob Jones LGBT alumni, and now, Biola Queer Underground, it would be great if they all could come together to form their own coalition for LGBT students and alumni of CCCU schools.

    • Lymis

      I am an alumnus of the United States Naval Academy (often called “Annapolis”). While I wasn’t in any way out, even, really, to myself, back when I was a student, in recent years, with the Internet and all the combined anonymity and connection that can allow, LGBT students there were able to start connecting, and out alumni were able to form groups that could discretely support the students and active duty military folks that couldn’t come out.

      With the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, that’s now mercifully obsolete, but students and alumni of this sort of conservative Christian college and university could take a cue from them – or even contact them for tips before all that collective expertise goes away.

  • bria40

    If the LGBTQ community doesn’t agree with Biola, their options do not include approval from the college or Christian student body… The president of this college is taking a stand for the truth of the gospel. Anyone who attends Biola knows the kind of conservative beliefs this school holds. If I as a Christian conservative attended a liberal state school, I would not expect them to change their policies for me, and I would certainly expect some kind of disclaimer from them saying that my beliefs do not reflect those of the college!

  • Shawna Phd

    In the beginning god create one woman and one man. That created people every where today. All different types of people. That’s the given born truth. Love resides in explosive passion between a couple with real love and nothing can conquer over love. Nothing. We could all choose to participate with something evil. But why should we take part in the negative dark forces that surround us all.

    Live a enjoyable divine long life and be at peace with mind and heart. Thank You.

    • anakinmcfly

      I can’t tell if you’re agreeing or disagreeing, and with whom.