Don’t you just hate it when demons commune with you?

meanjudge

So the other day I got an email from someone using the name “john baptist” that said only:

Hi, where did you study your theology?

To which I responded:

Nowhere formal.

To which in short order came back this response:

Ok no problems, thanks for sharing that.

That explains why you have broken the second commandment and created a god to suit yourself.

It is blatantly obvious that your conversion was an emotional experience created by demons communing with you.

Now satan is using you to teach heresy and abominations, by using the bible out of context you have become a student of devils and an enemy of Almighty God, and that is sad because i know you probably have good intentions by trying to create unity and acceptance of all people, but that shows you have no spiritual discernment.

Friend, you have had a false conversion. Therefore REPENT and hate your sins and trust in Jesus Christ, you will pass from death to life.

He will give you a new heart and new desires; then you will really LOVE all people despite their sins and imperfection, and will be willing to put yourself on the line to save people from HELL even if they don’t like you telling them to REPENT.

I know you probably think i’m just one of those legalist that wants to argue with you, like you have heard before. No friend I’m pleading with you to give it some thought and consider you eternal salvation.

Please friend RUN to the Savoir before its too late.

He’s right. I should run to the Savoir. It’s only faire.

About John Shore

John Shore (who, fwiw, is straight) is the author of UNFAIR: Christians and the LGBT Question, and three other great books. He is founder of Unfundamentalist Christians (on Facebook here), and executive editor of the Unfundamentalist Christians group blog.  (In total John's two blogs receive some 250,000 views per month.) John is also co-founder of The NALT Christians Project, which was written about by TIME,  The Washington Post, and others. His website is JohnShore.com. You're invited to like John's Facebook page. Don't forget to sign up for his mucho-awesome newsletter.

  • Tim N

    Well, to answer your question John, all caps in online etiquette is screaming, and for a fundie when you are losing your argument you raise your voice. Also, a lot of these people are subjected to sermons with very high decibel levels–think Black Baptist pastor sweating for emphasis as a less alarming example. The louder and more angry you are the better, or something.

    Also, the whole demons thing. Sigh. These people forget the “house divided” thing. What could the Demons hope to accomplish by even fooling someone into thinking they have had a conversion experience? Really? I wonder what Screwtape would say.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

      (Tim’s responding to my first ending to this bit o’ nutsy Fun with Fundies, wherein I wrote something to the effect of, “What is it with fundies and capitalization?”)

      • Barbara Rice

        It makes up for the bad spelling, punctuation errors, and interesting grammatical mistakes. They may not be able to spell BUT THEY CAN USE THE CAPS KEY!!!!

        (They also love exclamation marks!!!!!)

      • Tim N

        Interesting way to change the ending to keep your commenters on point, John. Bravo.

  • Michelle P.

    Wow. Because screaming REPENT is the only real way to love anyone. That standing up for people just doesn’t do it. *rolling my eyes at your new ‘friend’ john baptist* Who wants to bet that john baptist hasn’t studied theology at any sort of accredited institution, either? Not that one has to, of course, but many people like this will only accept one kind of education, and they usually haven’t partaken of it themselves.

    • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

      There are camps in the fundamentalist camp that think any Theological training…ok the type done in a class room at a college that may include the words seminary or theology degree as anything but proper Christian training, especially for the clergy. They may give a little credit to such instutions such as http://www.fruitland.edu/index.php?id=faculty or to BJU, (both near me) but are often suspicious of even these institutions of learning. They believe, wholeheartedly, that only the Holy Spirit gives one guidance to the clarity of scriptures and anything else is man oriented. Such education is therefore suspect, as Satan is sure to steer those “learned” folk right into the fast track to that hot place, dragging anyone who listens with them. People who adhere to this belief can tend to be self-taught, self ordained members of the clergy.

  • Melissa Blatz

    Wow. Low blow telling you your conversion was demonic. I can’t get over that.

  • Jeff Blackshear

    “That explains why you have broken the second commandment and created a god to suit yourself.”

    Oh get thee behind me, ‘cuz the fun I can have with THAT little tidbit…

  • Mindy

    Snicker, followed by a heavy sigh.

    Fundies really, really want to belong to a club that the rest of us don’t qualify for.

    • Jill

      My club membership was revoked many a year ago. I’ll never be sad about losing it. Maybe just sad that people still live under such an assumption that God belongs to that same exclusive club as they do.

  • Jane Carlton

    Savior Faire is Every Where……what cartoon was that? I remember that catch phrase but can’t remember the franchise.

  • Grant McNeil

    A new heart? Me thinks your heart is grand there John. Gimme a sec, I see the esteemed writer may have a log in his eye. I need to do the right Christian thing and help him remove it for I am not sure he has seen it. Have a blessed Sunday.

  • Hannah Grace

    I’m in the last semester of a 4 year theology degree from one of the best theology programs in the UK. Studying the diversity of the history of Christian theology and the incredible diversity of viewpoints represented by the Bible, let alone the rest of Christian tradition, made me realize the incredible amount of freedom we as Christians have while seeking for truth.

    But I guess if it’s not an ultra-conservative seminary, it’s Satan’s School. Keep up the good work, John.

  • http://amandajustice.blogspot.com Amanda

    My brain hurts just trying to understand how someone can take a person’s individual conversion experience and then say, with great presumed authority, that it was clearly caused by demons.

    What the…????!?!?!?!?

    And then my heart hurts, because I think this guy actually believes it… and the world that those beliefs would force someone to live in must be a very dark, scary place.

  • Terri Antonovich

    Hahah …poor Presumptuos John B ….Bless him Lord with understanding …

    • Kerry

      That was nice Terri – thanks for adding the prayer at the end. I was stuck in the “Ha Ha” phase but felt bad just commenting that. :-)

  • Danielle

    Wow. So demons have the power to create feelings of acceptance and empathy and unity towards all mankind, but God Almighty does not, or doesn’t see fit to use it? I call bullsh*t.

    • Andrea Claassen

      I don’t see a “like” button, Danielle, but you are so right on. If this is true, I’ll take the demons and seek to associate with the demon-possessed, and leave that version of God to the fundies.

  • http://coolingtwilight.com Dan Wilkinson
    • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

      Yeah I thought the same thing Dan. But it was right after my pondering over where most of the comments sent to John…our John…not the one giving himself the title “baptist”, were copy/pasted directly out of a Chick Tract.

      • James

        as an ex-Baptist, I used to be an avid reader of Chick tracts and, yeah, the verbiage was quite similar to John Baptist’s diatribe.

        • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

          I remember the first time I saw a Chick Tract, I was a lowly waitress at a Shoney’s and it was left on my table. I am not sure if it was included in my tip or WAS my tip. I just remember wondering how something more fitting for a scene in a B-movie grade horror flick was supposed to demonstrate what is good about being a Christian. I don’t know if I was one yet or not..complicated there, but I saw nothing in that tri-fold piece of paper that endeared me to the concept.

  • that Mike guy

    I’m currently very undecided about what I believe in other than compassion.

    But I’m digging your demons, John, and I suggest you stick with them as long as they are taking you in the right direction. Which they appear to be doing. I suspect they may be false demons.

    • Don Rappe

      False demons. I hadn’t thought of this before, but it makes a lot of sense. When a demon leads you to love God with all your heart, mind and power, as well as love your neighbor as yourself, it’s entirely possible the demon is a false one.

      • LN

        Or a faux one….

        • Lee

          it never gets old! :)

          • Lee

            or…i can’t stop…myself…il ne vieillit jamais

          • LN

            Faux Dieu! Fondue! Ne mange pas le savoir fair; c’est un grand canard!

    • Sharla

      If all you believe in is compassion, then you are not far from the Reign of God.

  • Anne E

    Oh boy! I’ve just read the whole thing out to my husband, who is just as stunned as I am. John (Shore) – I was a bit concerned to read that you don’t really love people … sorry, LOVE people … despite their sins and imperfection. You’ve been fooling me all this time! *heavy sigh*

  • mike moore

    I don’t think “john baptist” is using original material …

    I am almost positive I heard The Church Lady say this exact same thing on SNL … or maybe that’s just my demons speaking.

  • Olu Damba Soyombo

    Fundies and their trips….

  • Matt Algren

    I love it when someone starts a sentence with “Friend,”. It’s a trustworthy sign that I should ignore what they say.

  • Pat Hux

    It’s great when you know what you know and stuff like that actually has no meaning whatsoever.

  • Juliet Lester Neary

    Wow.

  • Nancy Inotowok

    Mon Dieu!

    • Matt

      Certainement, l’erreur est plus ironique!

  • Michael Jordan

    The god I created to suit myself is incompatible with the god you created to suit yourself so your god must be demonic

  • Barbara Tillman

    Apparently he didn’t read your recent column on “tolerance”…

  • Sharon Smith

    John, I went back and reread your conversion story. To me it seems so normal, so natural and so fitting. I think “john baptist’s” problem is that he can’t see how conversation could be anything but big showy , lights flashing, entertainment. I think your education is only his excuse and his problem is with your described conversion.

    You said, “That’s what my conversion consisted of: a sudden, sure knowledge that the historical story of Christ is true.” This is so true, I’ve felt this way for as long as I can remember, I do know at even three, I may not have understood sin, but I knew Christ was a real true thing, and my feeling is the same today at 65 as it was then.

    I would be far more inclined to believe that he is the one with the questionable conversation.

  • Eliot Parulidae

    Reminds me of a macro you posted a few months ago: “And they will know that we are Christians by our…correct theology.”

  • Sandy Burris Barbara

    He may have read it, but perhaps the demons were so loud they distracted him.

  • Andrea Claassen

    I’ve been on the receiving end of similar exchanges with conservatives enough times to know their playbook: If one is losing a theological argument on ideological, linguistic, or historical grounds, tell your opponent that he does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit and therefore lacks discernment. If you are really threatened, skip ahead to the ultimate zinger: tell him his conversion was false.

    • JAN

      Or grammatical errors

  • http://www.katesarabennie.com Kate Bennie

    Hmmm…Paul’s conversion also happened outside the Church… I can only assume all of his teachings were inspired by a demon as well! A false conversion on the road to Damascus….obviously. I’m pretty sure he never even READ the New Testament! ;)

    • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

      Heee!

    • http://www.katesarabennie.com Kate Bennie

      Oh and for the record I prefer reading John Shore over Paul.. Just a preference for living testament I suppose? Oh and he has better jokes!

      • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

        Oh yeah, Paul, poor thing. He sometimes had a hard time shedding his inner lawyer, and didn’t seem to yuck it up that much. Must have been all the beatings, and shipwrecks and that one encounter with a snake that took the wind out of his jolly.

        • Sharla

          Perhaps… but how can you not love a guy who gets so wound up in his own arguments that the only thing he can do is break into song? (Doxology, usually…)

      • Lissy

        Hahaha! I love all of you ladies!

  • http://kingmaalbert@hotmail.com Al

    How damaged john baptist must be to embrace such a joyless, judgemental world view. I wonder what his story is that he’s ended up this fucked up.

  • Matt

    “Spiritual discernment”?

    Oh, I get it!

    What you mean to say is: “All people are born equal. But some are more equal than others.”

    • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

      equal?? Equal to what? And we so sure that the symbol isn’t really one of those greater/less than ones?

      (I so suck at math)

      • Matt

        *laugh* To make things worse, there is a greater than/less than OR equal to sign (which I have no idea how to display here). What will the fundies do now?!

        (Math isn’t so much about sucking/not sucking as it is about practice. The people who like it practice it more.)

      • elladron

        “(I so suck at math)”

        Here’s an easy one for you (and everybody else), then:

        John Shore = cryptoJew

      • Rachel G.

        Equal vs Sugar, I think.

  • Don Rappe

    I love these theological conversations. Johnbaptist does not say where he studied theology. It may not have been necessary for him to study much. He just might KNOW EVERYTHING already!!!! Whether he comes by this condition innately, or by studying, it makes it impossible for him to learn anything new. Just this week at IST (the Informal School of Theology) I learned that Episcopalians think the Christian faith rests on three pillars: sacred scripture, tradition, and reason. The absence of even one can cause a problem with faith. Probably because I am a novice, I can find no sign of any one of the three in the assertions of Johnbaptist. REPENT Johnbaptist, REPENT!!!

    • LN

      Shouldn’t we be referring to him as “Jean-Baptiste”? ;-)

      • Don Rappe

        I know many good hearted people, including one brother, who can’t spell worth shit. I believe this brother, along with his unique spellings, is in heaven now. So I dislike faulting Mr. johnbaptist for this failing. But I am concerned for any soul which has lost the ability to learn due to the possession of fixed ideas. If his brain is not physically infirm, this is indeed a signal of demonic possession. It is well that we all pray: “Let thy holy angel take care of us.” and “Save us from the evil one.” I would be a better person if I could be less snarky and urge the letter writer, with all sincerity, to turn and be healed. Such turning is the best meaning of conversion.

  • DR

    I’m fascinated by the suggestion that the devil would lead someone to an experience of Jesus in a way that said person is drawn to the Bible. Fascinating.

  • http://www.facebook.com/djlorenc David John Lawrence

    As a member of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) I wonder, what is this “conversion experience” of which he writes???

    /semi-snark/

  • Lisa

    I’m fascinated by the suggestion that the devil would lead someone to an experience of Jesus, PERIOD, LOL!!!!

    • Lissy

      That’s where I got all turned around, too…

    • n.

      i mean it would make sense if he were religious before. but he totally wasn’t. satan would pick something more convenient to the person, i think…

  • DR

    “OK, no problems, thanks for sharing that”.

    I missed that (or went into full blown denial) the first time but the passive-aggressive hostility of that kind of candy-coated creepiness is like a trademark with these Christians. It’s symptomatic of what many Christians – in my opinion – are mired within, this delusion that if you throw some nice words in front of an all-out attack, it completely sanitizes the cruelty and hostility within the rest of your offering. And then of course when that’s pointed out, these same individuals cry “where was I attacking you? I was nice and said ‘thank you’”! It’s so vile.

    • Mary Coleman

      I love the phrase “candy-coated creepiness”……. PERFECT!!

    • Duck

      It is part and parcel of the whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” crap that is spewed by evangelicals. If I proclaim that I don’t hate you and then proceed to generalize about you and people like you (see for reference any thing from the Family Research Council regarding LGBT folks) in the most vile possible manner it is ok, because I caveat-ed the whole speech with the “I don’t hate…”

      • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

        Well of course one of the problems with “love the sinner, hate the sin” theology, is that it is impossible to seperate the two opposites in that phrase. “Sinners” are going to be hated on the sheer weight of that “sin”.

        The other problem is all those ridiculous categories, and levels of horribleness that people have placed on what sin is, and whether or not it is deserving of forgiveness by us. Then there is the decision as to whether or not such “sin” is deserving of forgiveness by God.

        And yet another is when it is pointed out that we shouldn’t be judging, much less condeming others. “Oh, I’m not condemning, But, if they don’t repent and (choose any of the following, no limits) get right with God, get into a good bible teaching church, find Jesus, stop mocking God, become what God designed, stop sinning,….” Sigh.

  • http://www.greggdeselms.com Gregg DesElms

    With all the use of the word “friend,” the guy reminded me of Elmer Gantry. For those who’ve seen the film, seriously, start with his first use of the word “friend,” and then picture Burt Lancaster as Gantry saying it like a tent revival minister would say it, right through to the end where he wrote: “Please friend RUN to the Savoir before its too late.”

    It’s like it’s straight from the movie.

    It’s worthy of note that Gantry was a con man.

    SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Gantry_(film)

    Another use of the word “friend” to con may be found in the film “The Music Man.”

    SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Music_Man_(1962_film)

    Different actor; same rhythm. No surprises, then, from someone with the temerity to choose the monicker “john baptist;” and then to use his misunderstanding of scripture as a weapon.

    Some friend.

    Gregg DesElms

    Napa, California USA

    gregg at greggdeselms dot com

    • James

      I have learned to instinctively mistrust anyone who feels it necessary to lace their speech with “friend”, “buddy” or “pal”. usually this habit is a strong indication they are none of the three and I should seek distance immediately. ;)

    • http://www.buzzdixon.com buzz

      “Dear Friends, it is going to be all right. It’s going to be all right tonight, here at the Powerhouse Church of the Presumptuous Assumption of the Blinding Light.

      “Yes, Friends, welcome to Pastor Flash’s Hour of Reckoning, with Organ Leroy at his organ again, and the Fifty-Voice St. Louis Aquarium Choir. I’m Deacon E. L. Mouse, but, Dear Friends…in these days of modern time, when you can’t tell the AC’s from the DC’s, well, aren’t we all yearning for someone who can turn on a little stopping power?

      “Dear Friends, I mean a smokey glass. Don’t you think I mean a lightning rod with which to chase these spooks away? Don’t you know I mean our own Pastor ROD FLASH?!?!?

      “He’s been up for a week!

      “…but he’s coming down!”

      – from Don’t Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers by The Firesign Theatre

  • Allie

    Seems to me the test of any conversion experience is whether the person does good afterward. You do, therefore your conversion was of God.

    What’s sad about this writer is that his Satan is very big and his God is very weak and small.

    • James

      you hit the nail on the head, Allie.

  • Natalie Jones

    I just hate it when demons tell me to be nice and accept people.

    • Ben

      BEST_COMMENT_EVER

      • mike moore

        frikkin’ demons … so unreasonable.

      • Andy

        Well said, Ben. I second that.

  • Megan Steele

    Jesus did change my heart and my desires. Slowly and steadily. I learned most of what he stood for in a church and applied to it what I already knew of life and people. For this very reason, I am accepting of most people I know. I do, however, avoid evil people. Those who try to use God’s words to justify hatred and prejudice. Those who use the Bible to beat others over the head. Those who try to tell me that God says to get a gun because the government is going to take them away. Jesus taught me humility, grace, and love. Jesus taught me to see my own hypocrisy. Jesus taught me that I am nothing better or worse than anyone else walking this beautiful planet. Jesus taught me to be grateful for every little thing I have. This is Jesus. Not hatred, name-calling, or judgment. Jesus is, first and foremost, Love. I, for one, consider you to be a great example of the truth that is Jesus, John. Thank you.

  • Ann Bergsagel McPherson

    This is exactly what I expect the our brother & sisters of the Fundamental persuasion to appeal to us Un-Fundie types! They love us & are quite freaked out by our understanding of Truth…and that’s understandable! We are, after all turning tables upside down! Fear tactics won’t work with me though, as God has Spoken through Peace & Love! It’s also obvious he hasn’t read your thoughts as LOVE is so overwhelmingly present! Thanks John for sharing your walk with us…and for not letting the “demons of fear & distraction” steer you off course!

    • Andy

      Fundamentalists motivate by fear. How else?

  • Karen Bunn

    Yeah that one sounds just full of the peace that passeth all understanding. Ugh!

  • http://readingseisho.wordpress.com friendly reader

    >>”That explains why you have broken the second commandment”

    As a Lutheran, my first thought was, “How did he take the Lord’s name in vain?”

    (Can the Catholics in the thread give me an “amen”?)

    • Lymis

      And an a-woman, too?

    • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

      I thought taking the Lord’s name in vain was the third commandment.

      The second says, “don’t make any graven images.” So unless John has a Blow up Jesus, or a golden calf in his dining room, I think its safe to bet, that the second commandment is still intact.

      • http://coolingtwilight.com Dan Wilkinson

        Catholics and Lutherans use the Augustinian numbering of the commandments, so the 2nd commandment is Ex. 20.7 / Deut. 5.11.

        I assume john baptist is referring to Ex. 20.3 / Deut. 5.7: “You shall have no other gods before me.”

        • Susan in NY

          I thought John Baptist was talking about the second amendment. As far as I am concerned, assault weapons should be banned, and all gun buyers should have to have a background check.

          Guns are the work of the devil, right?

          Susan in NY

        • http://allegro63.wordpress.com sdparris

          Ah. I didn’t know that. So they condense the Protestant 1-2 and divide #10 into two.

          My something new learned today. Cool!

          • Don Rappe

            Yup. I like the love of God’s mathematics involved. All Christians and Jews agree that there are ten. But, we don’t agree on how to number them. I suspect it has to do with our relative abhorrence of images, whether graven or molten.

          • http://readingseisho.wordpress.com friendly reader

            And in Luther’s case, there’s also the fact that he enjoyed re-phrasing Commandments into positives as well as prohibitions. The Jewish #1 and 2 sort of have the same positive (worship God), while the positives for #10 are going to be different based on whether you’re talking about property or persons.

            I’m about two days away from doing the Ten Commandments on my blog, and I plan to talk a little about it there…

          • Jill

            Wow, it gets so technical. No wonder I’m not terribly good at religion.

          • Lymis

            Well, Jesus seemed to feel it could all be summed up by just two commandments. But who listens to him?

          • Jill

            It’s so crazy, it just might work!

  • charles

    as I revisted my favorite Young Indian Jones episode yesterday- “Oganaga – Giver and Taker of Life” which is about Albert Schweitzer, I spent a good deal of the episode weeping at the painful obviousness of Schweitzer’s notion of the having a “deep reverence of life” – to see this makes me sort of weep again due to the shameful notion that we have a God who has the power to create all, wanting to bring hate and disharmony into his creation. I guess its a sort of “Comedy Gold”, but in reality, it speaks to a depth of tragedy in the human spirit which knows no effective language to describe it.

  • Janet

    Dear Letter Writer:

    Your message has been received. You may now check us off your list. Our (potential) damnation will not be on your head. Thank you, and goodbye.

    • Julie

      In the spirit of our discourse in French, touche!

  • Dekortage

    “No person can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.” — 1 Corinthians 12:3

    …unless you disagree with that person, in which case you are free to assume they are communing with demons.

    • Lymis

      Wait, what if it’s the Holy Spirit that’s communing with the demons?

  • Andy

    If he’s that critical about fellow Christians, I shudder to think what he might say to non-Christians. In the matter of “Why Christians are absolutely despised by some people”, I present exhibit A.

    I think he could benefit from reading I’m OK— You’re Not, but he probably won’t. Which is a shame, because he sounds like he’s the target audience.

  • Karin Wild Bean Kloppers

    *snarf*

  • Patricia Mascone Lewis

    I’d like to know where HE, or his undoubtedly semiliterate pastor, studied theology.

  • Shona Elizabeth-McMonkey

    Human are so wacky…

  • Kerri Baysinger

    Too bad you didn’t go to seminary. It might’ve made your conversion retroactively real. Bummer for you!

  • Aaron Johal

    He perhaps didm’t realize that you understand French and thought he was demonstrating the power if tongues lol

  • Shelley Robinson

    Don’t you just hate it when an idiot claiming to be a Christian communicates with you?

  • Michael Mock

    Actually, I had worse experiences when demons were trying to commute with me. You’d think it wouldn’t be a big deal – I mean, we’re all just trying to get to work, right? But, no. Scorch marks on the seats, smell of brimstone all through the car, and they never, EVER pitched in for gas.

    • mike moore

      lmao!

    • Argy-bargy

      Probably talked on their cell phones the entire time…loudly.

  • John Gragson

    zut alors!

  • Lymis

    “…you have become a student of devils and an enemy of Almighty God, and that is sad…”

    Now, see, that’s where I can’t understand these people. I don’t believe in this whole control of Satan and near-universal damnation stuff, but I simply don’t understand these people’s casual attitude toward Satan and damnation.

    They’re postulating an evil being powerful enough to intercept the sincere attempt of a soul to reach God, and to block all subsequent redemption, and then feeling a bit of ennui about it all.

    I remember a coworker when I first came out, who had been a friend, and I’d babysat their child, and watched their house and fed their pets on their vacation, whose response was, “I’m sorry you’re going to hell, but this won’t affect our friendship.”

    Wait, what? So now I’m a servant of Satan, eternally condemned to hell, threatening to drag down all I come in contact with, and would I like a refill on my drink?

    There is no way in hell (pun intended) that I would actually hang out with someone I thought was evil enough to go to hell.

    I do not understand, “Sorry about your immortal soul, but have a nice day anyway!”

    • Don Rappe

      It would be nice if the hellfire people had a more serious understanding of the idea.

    • http://www.barnmaven.com Mary “Barnmaven” Peret

      I, for one, would like a refill on my drink.

    • Russell Mark

      Is it not extraordinary just how weak their “Almighty God” is when confronting one of his creations, being Lucifer? How did this dastardly devil come to be able to thwart the will of the Creator, at every turn? Does God need more spinach, or wheaties, or wheat germ? Perhaps vitamin D would help. I know Malt-O-Meal used to help me as a kid get that vim and vigor in my step.

      I find there lack of faith in God truly sad. To paraphrase Socrates, the unexamined theology is not worth having

      .

  • http://gulliblestravelsdma.wordpress.com D’Ma

    Umm…errrr…that sounds an awful lot like something the Pharisees said to Jesus when he healed a man on the Sabbath.

    Based on his logic how does he know that demons are not communing with him and leading him in a false relationship? Square that circle up. I can’t do it. It makes my head hurt too much.

  • LVZ

    Based on my own experience, incidents like the one Mr. Shore describes happen all the time. As a young man, I was a pious, devout churchgoer — and I was approached numerous times by fellow Christians who tried their darndest to “convert” me to Christianity. They thought I wasn’t a “real Christian” because I attended a different denomination — i.e. the church down the street from the church they attended.

  • http://www.krethtunez.biz Randy Creath

    Just too weird!!!!

  • Mindy Brown Carney

    Nothing annoys me more than demons gettin’ all up in my business. I mean, really. Doesn’t that just frost your pickles?

    • Lymis

      Meh. You just need more exorcise.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

        HAR!

        • http://www.enesvy.com Nicole

          Just so! :D

      • Tim N

        good one.

    • Russell Mark

      Frosted pickles…sounds extremely demonic.

  • http://www.buzzdixon.com buzz

    friends r fiends?

  • D

    Doesn’t that verse in John say false teachers are those who teach that Jesus isn’t the Christ? It doesn’t mention any of the things John believes. Given that universalism was accepted in the early church and is now a damnable heresy, and given that Jesus quite happily broke laws in the name of love, I don’t think either Jesus or the early church would consider John not a Christian when his conversion experience led him to believe that everything Jesus said about himself was true.

    I’m aware this is pretty much blindingly obvious to most readers of this blog, but reading this I got a shiver down my spine. It’s exactly the kind of thing I would have fallen for back when I was very, very evangelical, and it would have led to a great deal of grief for me.

    Trying over and over again to attain a real conversion experience is one of my least favourite memories about the entire time I was Pentecostal. I don’t know whether my church implicitly encouraged this view or whether it was just my own natural paranoia/anxiety, but it seriously screwed me up for a while (in both small and large ways), and I do not want anyone else to go through that.

    ‘Fake’ conversions do not exist. Having a religious experience and then deciding it wasn’t real, or you can’t handle certain things about the church, does. I’m also fairly sure demons are way too busy causing hate and violence and misery to waste time making people maybe consider loving gay people a little more. In fact, I’d say that’s exactly the sort of aim a demon would go against.

  • David Shaffer

    Welcome to the club, John Shore, just yesterday I was called a demon by BJU MDivV graduate Andy Rogish for posting one of your blogs to facebook. Anyone who mentions any wrongdoing by an IFB preacher or Bob Jones University graduate is certainly condemned to spend eternity in hell in their mind. Some of their theology is rooted in the heresy of gnosticism others is rooted in just plain stupidity.


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