Hey Maryland!

A Marylander writes:

I live in the nutty state of Maryland, and since we already deconstructed marriage last year, this year some members of our senate propose that everyone gets to choose their own gender, as you can see below (I choose butter pecan!).

I have been very interested in the whole women in combat proposition and am trying to take this proposal to the logical conclusions. I guess this would mean that any man who decides he’s a woman would not have to sign up for Selective Service (I would be cool with that, actually), and now any woman could declare her manhood and join the infantry–at least in the Maryland National Guard. Right?!

Our (“Catholic”) Governor, Martin O’Malley, who had also been the mediocre mayor of Baltimore, is likely being groomed for a shot at the Presidency someday. Like any good Maryland progressive, he has signed on to everything morally twisted that has reached his desk. We are praying that he and our legislators will consider some of the points below (transgendered men changing openly in public bathrooms–a friend of mine has already experienced this, and the manager did NOTHING) and that the desires of a few will not override the rights of Marylanders to raise their children safely in an increasingly coarse environment.

Please ask your readers to call, or at least to pray for our state.

PS I fully expect to be able to declare pets as “persons” — dependents on my Maryland tax bills in the next several years. Why not?! I just have a gut feeling. (In that case, our kids just might get a dog….)

****

Senate Bill 449 would remove male and female as the two forms of being human and replace that with a self-determined gender identity. According to the bill: “GENDER IDENTITY” MEANS A GENDER–RELATED IDENTITY, APPEARANCE, EXPRESSION, OR BEHAVIOR OF AN INDIVIDUAL REGARDLESS OF THE INDIVIDUAL’S ASSIGNED SEX AT BIRTH. In other words, under this bill, men can claim a female identity and must be allowed into women’s restrooms and locker rooms. Businesses cannot prevent employees from dressing as another gender at work.

For an inside picture of transgenderism, read this story of a former transgender person.

This bill, SB 449, deceptively titled “Fairness for All MarylandersLink, would make it illegal to discriminate based on “Gender Identity“. Gender Identity Disorder, also known as Transgenderism and historically considered a mental disorder, is being recategorized in the new manual on mental health. . Link and Link. While individuals who suffer from gender confusion should be treated with compassion, their confusion should not be codified into law as normal.

This bill

  • gives no protection to women in public bathrooms and locker rooms;
  • does not have any stipulations about confirming a person’s “gender identity”, beyond that person’s than personal claim.
  • provides no “common sense” guidelines to protect businesses from arbitrary gender claims and change
  • opens the door for children to be taught in schools that they can decide their own gender, as has happened in Massachusetts, where the non-discrimination requirement allows [activists] to freely push that agenda in all grades, including: transgender-themed books, classroom assignments, assemblies, and diversity training.. Link
  • changes gender based on objective genetics to subjective self-perception

Please contact your State Senator and the members of the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee to oppose SB 449.

  • Linda C.

    I thought the whole point of allowing women in combat would be to assure that, in the event of a draft, they would be draftable, since Officially There Is No Difference Between Men And Women, and courts have already stated that the only reason women are not draftable at present is that they cannot be sent into combat.

  • Jacob

    I do sorta want to move to Maryland and declare that my gender is robot.

    • Jacob

      Seriously, though, I will pray for the people of MD to be inspired to vote wisely.

      • Gwen

        I agree with you on the voting issue Jacob. I pray that the people of MD will be inspired to vote for the equality, dignity and worth of every individual. I pray that they will recognize the fact that all people are created equal and endowed with the same equal rights as others by the Divine and under our Constitution. To do otherwise would be denying both the Creator and our Constitutional law.

    • Gwen

      Your attempt at humor belittles transgender folks and tells everyone more about you than you probably want known. I guess it makes it easier to be a bigot when you can belittle others and deny them their humanity.

  • Stu

    I love my home state.

    I would never live there again.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      I say the same thing about Massachusetts.

  • Ashley

    I’m very concerned that as American society increasingly frowns upon degrading homosexuals, transgendered people are going to become the next group that Christianity targets for discrimination and demonization. It seems that Christians in America always need a villain, preferably a helpless one.

    I really hope American Catholics are able to restrain themselves from this temptation. The lives of many transgendered persons are already bleak, with shockingly high rates of homelessness and suicide. Please don’t add to their plight in a lust for a convenient and vulnerable enemy.

    • Stu

      If by “degrading” you mean simply pointing that one’s actions in life are ultimately destructive to themselves and all of society, then I believe you are in for disappointment. Charity sometimes means pointing out to others things they don’t want to hear. Now of course how you deliver this message is extremely important and must be done appropriately without venom, but if you really love someone, then you tell them the truth.

      • Gwen

        Stu,
        So, you understand that I am hot “degrading” you by simply pointing out that your actions in life vis-a-vis your Christian beliefs which lead to you comments, are ultimately destructive to yourself and all of society. All of us are created equal in the eyes of the Divine and the laws of our country. Sorry if you don’t want to hear this, but charity demands I point this out to you and others who believe as you do.
        In regards to transgender people, I suggest that everyone who has responded in an anti-transgender manner , I suggest you educate yourself to the truth about transgender folks and not the misconceptions you have been fed by folks who are just trying to justify their own hatred by converting others to their beliefs.

        • Gwen

          Please change the seventh word in my reply from “hot” to “not”. Thank you

        • Rob

          There hasn’t been anything approaching hatred in this thread, Gwen.

          The point is that this bill is unnecessary. Minus the vanishingly few who unfortunately suffer chromosomal abnormalities (incidence is 0.001% to 0.01%) all one needs to do is determine whether she or he is XX or XY, respectively. At that point the discussion is over. One does not choose one’s gender just because one wants to.

          • Jill Davidson

            If by “chromosomal abnormalities” you are referancing intersex conditions, which include conditions like AIS in which a person with an XY combination appears like a normal female, it is not a “vanishingly few” – close to 1.5% of the population, more common than being transgender. It costs about $2,000 to have a karyotype done, determining whether you have XX or XY or some other combination. And the discussion continues.

    • anon

      Ashley,

      I am struggling to remember an incident where Catholics were involved in demonizing, discriminating against, or degrading homosexuals or those who struggle with sexual identification. The Catholic Church is not Westboro Baptist. The Catholic Church consistently picks up those who are struggling with any burden and helps them along–imperfectly, of course, because we are all struggling with temptations and sin.

      One of the very sad and real results of declaring SSA or gender confusion “normal” is that the necessary counseling or help might not occur. I believe that now in California it is forbidden to give any kind of reparative therapy for those who have SSA. So a 13 year old who is struggling with his/her identity (and that is very common) can’t work through it properly with a counselor. How compassionate is that? (“Be quiet. You are normal. Get over it, and learn to live with it.” or “Well, your suicidal thoughts can’t possibly be tied to your transgenderism.”) Calling the behavior a societal norm and making accomodations is misplaced compassion.

      It is heartbreaking for those who are struggling with their very core–what it means to be man or woman. Christ has the answer, and it involves picking up our crosses and following Him. I can’t imagine the struggle involved with some crosses–I do not struggle with this, and can only imagine the pain. I can only pray and fast for them (imperfectly, again!) and try to help if possible. If I as a practicing Catholic hate and despise and villify, and am unrepentant, I will end up in a lower pit of hell because someone who is so vulnerable and struggling so much is one of those “little ones” of whom Jesus speaks–they are close to His Heart, even if they are not aware of it.
      It can only be reasonable that I would not want this bill to go forward and become law, because it will not relieve anyone’s struggle–in fact, it might add to it– and it also means that my children face the very real issue of grown men in the girls’ bathroom. (In the incident above, didn’t the person put a target on himself by changing in the common area of a womens’ bathroom? Does that even show common sense or courtesy? At least use the stall!)

      • Gwen

        Anon,

        The Roman Catholic Church (I use the adjective “Roman” because I believe that is the catholic church to which you refer) may not be the Westboro Baptist Church, but members of the RCC have been involved in doing those things which you described in your opening to Ashley. And they do so in the name of their religious affiliation and beliefs. The catholic church which you wrote about is not one with which I have experience with either.
        When you and others like yourself start treating everyone with the love, charity and unconditional acceptance which Jesus taught then perhaps you can call yourself one of his followers. Until then you are just a member of one of the many denominations which uses Jesus’ name to promote it’s own agenda and man-made dogma.

        • kmk

          Gwen,

          Yes, I did mean Roman Catholic : ) I am “anon,” I forgot to change it and can’t change it now.

          “The just man falls seven times a day.” Yes, I struggle with treating everyone with love and charity, as do we all, every day, in every situation. I can’t unconditionally accept everything that everyone wants to do, however. As a mom, my kids would love it, I guess (chocolate for breakfast!) but I will and must draw lines of judgement each day in all kinds of situations–we all do.

          I do want to know about specific incidents where Roman Catholics have treated anyone along the lines of WBC. I would disavow it, too.

          I know nothing about you personally and your struggles, you know nothing of mine. That’s not meant to be mean, but just a fact. I know there is a person, Jesus Christ, true God and true Man, whom I strive very very imperfectly to imitate on my best days. That is all I can offer. All of the theology of sin, and salvation, and crosses with which we struggle–I claim what the Roman Catholic church teaches, in union with the Magisterium and Holy Father. I am truly sorry if you have experienced any evil or misunderstanding from a Roman Catholic, although I can’t apologize on their behalf, of course– no one can really ask for forgiveness for someone else.

          Honestly, referring to your other statements–what rights are denied to anyone when it comes to sexual orientation? Specifics, really. Bullying doesn’t count. : ) I was bullied in 7th grade, and it didn’t have anything to do with sexual orientation. “Concupiscience” (sp?) is an equal opportunity tormenter. You are beloved by our Creator. I pray that you will know His love in fullness soon.

          God bless you, I sincerely mean that, and you are in my prayers from now on–
          kmk

          • Gwen

            Dear kmk,

            Thank you for your reply. I do know that I am loved by the Divine. I also know that the Divine created me the way I am. I have hear the statement that “The Divine doesn’t make mistakes” used in arguments against GLBT people. I have two answers the first being that while the Divine doesn’t make mistakes, however nature does. Secondly, we are all as the Divine intended us to be. No one should try to second-guess the Divine. We all serve the Divine’s purpose. What has happened, is happening and will happen is occurring in accordance to the Divine’s will since the start of creation. Go in Peace and the grace of the Divine Spirit whatever you believe the Divine to be.

      • Gwen

        Anon,
        Please read for yourself yourself what the CA law is about instead of relying upon the one-sided interpretation of an anti-gay oppressor. Your hypothetical 13 year old struggling with same sex attraction would be able discuss the situation with a counselor. The law just prevents that counselor from using draconian measures which make water-boarding look tame. It amazes me that there are folks who believe everything they read without doing any research both pro and con before passing on hearsay as truth.

        • Hezekiah Garrett

          How dare you impugn the memory of Draco, the Great Law-Giver? What kind of historical ignorance leads to such disgusting slander?

          See, I can be as humorless, and maybe even more ridiculous, than you!

    • Will

      Why is it that the people who insist that “Christianity” is monolithic are almost always the same ones who sneer at us for being divided?

      • Gwen

        Is there a “monllithic” Christian church or belief? There are so many so-called Christian churches, it’s almost impossible to keep track of them. While there is a common theme in the use of the teaching of one Yeshua ben Yosef, aka Jesus the messiah (christ, to use the Greek word), each christian denomination has it’s own dogma based on those teachings. But this is true of any established religious belief.

        • Will

          So, is that supposed to answer my question? Or were you answering Ashley, who ascribed a nefarious lockstep stance to “Christianity”?

  • Elaine S.

    Before everyone panics I’d like to point out that the mere fact of a bill being introduced, or scheduled for a committee hearing, does NOT mean it will become law. Any legislator can introduce any bill he or she likes, no matter how crazy or extreme it may be; that doesn’t mean it will pass or even come to a floor vote. Only a small fraction of the bills introduced in Congress or any state legislature ever become law, and some bills that have no chance of passage are introduced simply so that the legislator in question can tout it to his/her constituents at election time (“Representative X introduced legislation in Your State Capital to protect your right to…..”). So it may be a bit premature to conclude that a major change in Maryland state law is imminent simply because one or several far-left legislators drafted this bill. That said, it is certainly worth monitoring its progress and taking appropriate action if it advances past the committee stage.

    • kmk
      • Gwen

        What happened in Massachusetts is called equality under the law for all citizens. Well, actually, transgender folks in MA still face some institutionalized bigotry and discrimination since the anti-discrimination laws still sanctions certain bigotry and discrimination against them. Now if you want to know what is going on in MA I would suggest reading some other sources and their interpretations rather than the suggested lifesite news site with it’s interpretation or just other sites which agree with that site. Read sites where the agenda is equality for everyone instead of the hatred, disinformation and discrimination propagated by the bigot and hater sites.

        • Rob

          That’s not equality for all citizens. Gaining access to more things and places that are intended for the sex that you are not — divisions that havw been kept in place for the sake of safety and privacy — is actually inequality.

          • Gwen

            Rob,

            I can see that you and I can agree to disagree. Read Mark Shea’s article, read some of his suggested links then you may understand what I am talking about.

            Chromosomes determine your bodily sexual development most of the time. Sometimes things happen where a female bodied person develops from XY chromosomes and sometimes a male bodied person develops from XX chromosomes. Although the latter is much more uncommon than the former, it still happens and then there are the many variations of chromosome combinations which lead to Turners and Klienfelters syndromes and other much less heard of syndromes not to mention the interference of drugs including fertility drugs which can produce a whole host of variation which are still being explored and cataloged by medical doctors and other scientists. The one glaring problem with your statement concerning the idea that chromosomes determine one’s actual gender. Chromosomes do not determine gender they are major in determining sexual body characteristics. These characteristics are then used to determine how a person is raised in society (i.e. as a male or female.) Thus at a very early time in our lives, we start being indoctrinated into society. Those who refuse this societal indoctrination are labeled as misfits at the very least or psychologically ill at the worse.
            Physical sexual characteristics don’t determine gender, socialization does and more often than you think, there are folks who know who and what they are and don’t conform to societal expectations. Is this any reason to deny them dignity and respect and equal rights under the Divine and Constitutional law? Any rational person knows the answer to that question.

            I know many transgender/transsexual folks who are upstanding law abiding citizens. People who have contributed to society in many different fields of endeavor. Some of these folks are just plain everyday people like yourself. Others are prior military folks, both short-timers and retirees. Others are scientists, engineers, doctors, lawyers, bankers, law enforcement authorities, politicians and hundreds of other professions. In other words they are just your average U.S. citizen/resident. Each and everyone of the not only has the right to self determination, but they have the right to live their lives without fear of bigotry, discrimination and fear brought about by irrational fear and the idea that they are somehow less than human because they are “As the Divine made them.”

            PS The next time you use your computer you can say thank you to Lynn Conway, a post operative TS woman who was one of the two people who made the break through in computer engineering which makes all modern computer and miniature electric devices possible. If you don’t believe me, google her name.

  • The Next to Last Samurai

    Under this law, what prevents a guy from declaring himself transgender so he can hang out in the ladies’ room and get his jollies? If I were a rapist I would be rooting for the passage of this law.

    • Kenneth

      Right…..because no rapist would violate the sanctity of the skirt profile symbol and the word “women” on a door….

    • Gwen

      Is there anything now to prevent a guy from hanging out in the ladies room and getting his jollies? Most communities don’t have laws prevent people of the opposite sex from using different sex bathrooms. As Kenneth puts it does anyone really believe that a rapist or child molester would let a skirt profile symbol and the word “women” on the door stop him entering the Ladies restroom and committing a crime. Get Real!

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    At what point do we start telling the truth???? That America is descending into moral insanity.

    • Adolfo

      Correction: America has descended into moral insanity.

    • Gwen

      We have started telling the truth. By demanding to be treated with dignity and equality Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Americans have begun the ascent to bring this country out of the moral insanity it exists in today. All of us are endowed with inalienable rights from the Creator and under the Constitution of this country. Congratulations to all the citizens who are fighting to make this country the country it is meant to be under the Divine and the law. In the end those of us who fight for justice and equality will triumph over those who seek to deny that we have the same Divine-given and Constitutionally-given rights. Rights which are shared by all citizens of the great United States of America.

      • Mr. X

        So if I self-identify as a cat, do dignity and equality demand that you leave a saucer of milk on the floor for me to drink?

        • Kenneth

          Is the gulf between human genders as great as that between a human and cat? We are related to cats, but our last common ancestor was about 90 million years ago. Our last opposite gender human ancestor for each and every one of us is our birth dates…

          That said, if you can come up with some medically plausible rationale for identifying as a cat, like having 38 chromosomes and a cat-like brain, then yes, it would be reasonable to meet your demands. Of course without sentience or full standing before the law, you’d have trouble securing such rights.

          • Rob

            Considering that these identities — biologically male, biologically female, biologically human, biologically cat — are hard-coded into our very genetic material, I would say yes.

            Speaking of evolution: humans have evolved to be male and to be female. Science is certainly not on your side if you’re arguing the pro-transgender side.

          • Hezekiah Garrett

            Such chronologism is ridiculous for a man claiming common cause with those dead milleniums and running from the true Victorian founders of his all too very modern religion.

            How many generations separate Crowley from the Druids?

        • Gwen

          Thank you Mr X for your comments. Obviously either can’t or won’t seriously enter into a real discussion of the matter. If you want to dehumanize yourself and identify as a cat, I suggest you get some serious help. Your reply only enforces the evidence that you have nothing constructive to add to either side of the discussion.

          • Gwen

            Please insert the word “you” between the words “either” and “can’t in the second sentence. Thank you.

          • Mr. X

            So what exactly is the difference, then?

            • Gwen

              Mr. X

              The difference is reality versus your fantasy reply. I suggest you read up on the issues of transgender/transsexual identity. And please read up on both sides of the issue. The “bathroom issue” which is being used to deny equal rights to T folks is just a ruse for denying all rights to transgender citizens. Without inclusion in equality laws, transgender folks can be denied access to restaurants, department stores, grocery stores, taxis, buses, aircraft, airports, city halls, the list is endless. Without such a law, transgender folks can denied participation in life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

              As for your cat analogy, if the difference has to be explained to you then you are really out of touch with reality. I however believe that you are trying to play the “devil’s advocate” here. Please respond when you have researched the subject and have something constructive to submit. Until then you are just a distraction in this conversation

              However, to answer your question. Transgender people are a reality…the transspecies idea is a complete fantasy thrown in here to confuse people with its outlandishness.

              • Mr. X

                “However, to answer your question. Transgender people are a reality…the transspecies idea is a complete fantasy thrown in here to confuse people with its outlandishness.”

                Ahem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_dysphoria

                So, given that there are actually people who think that they’re “really” another species, does the government have an obligation to pass laws allowing everybody to choose which species they want to be treated as? And does it have the obligation to compel others to accept their choice? If not, why not?

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  Gwen obviously has every right to her speciesism! She said so! You inhuman fool, it ok to think your penis should be a vagina, but to think it should have barbs is just to mock her hobby horse!

                • Kenneth

                  The answer to this “irreducably complex” problem you’ve posed lies in actually using some of the extra forebrain mass that we possess and which cats do not. Slippery slope arguments, to the extent they are made in good faith (rarely), posit that the very act of being open to new information will tear a hole in the fabric of the universe itself. We will no longer have any power to distinguish anything from anything else. Reason will get you a lot farther at the end of the day than trying to insulate yourself from new information or empirical evidence.

                  The claims of transgender humans and the claims of “otherkin” are just that, claims. How do those claims line up with plausibility and evidence? It’s not so wildly fantastic that a human being might have mismatches between genetics, body characteristics, the person’s subjective belief of gender identity and the gender roles assigned them by society. We know and have documented the genetic and endocrinological basis of how this happens in many cases. In others, we have strongly suggestive but incomplete evidence about ways that gender identity can be a misalignment in utero between brain development and the rest of the body. We further know that transgender people, those identified and screened for reassignment under our best practices tend to live healthier and happier lives than those who try to ignore or “tough out” their condition. There is a consistently strong, if not bulletproof scientific argument in favor of transgenderism as a real medical condition amenable to medical treatment and eligible for proper consideration under anti-discrimination law.

                  People claiming to be house cats or dragons or elves or vampires or extraterrestrial aliens have a much higher burden of proof for their claims, and none, so far as I know, has cleared that bar. Most such folks seem to take their identities metaphorically or metaphysically, claiming their souls identify or originate with non-human entities or spirits. It’s a neat tailor made tribal identity for people who don’t fit in to the humdrum and depressing realities of the workaday human world. At most, it’s a First Amendment claim to freedom of belief. If they insist on claiming an identity as a literal dragon or house cat or werewolf, they can secure a 14th Amendment claim, IF they produce objective and verifiable data supporting their claims – inhuman DNA, anatomy, evidence of their “home world” or superhuman abilities or physical immortality etc. If they can really meet that burden of proof and demonstrate a need for medical alteration and protections of law for their unique situations, then bully for them. They should have it. Until then, I wouldn’t hold my breath. We can help transgender human folk get where they need to be without upending civilization itself nor breaking the bank.

                  • Mr. X

                    “The answer to this “irreducably complex” problem you’ve posed”

                    Ooh, guilt by association. I like it.

                    Also, why do you think that in the case of a man who identifies as a woman, his subjective feelings of womanhood are enough, but in the case of a man who identifies as another species, we ought to base our definitions on his physical body rather than on how he self-identifies?

                    • Kenneth

                      It all goes back to the plausibility of the claim. It’s very plausible that a female mind could be trapped in an anatomically male body. It’s been documented. We know how it happens in some cases. It’s not a huge genetic leap from a human man to a human woman or vice versa. One arm of one copy of one chromosome. When someone identifies as a member of another species, there is no plausible scenario and zero evidence of its possibility. Human-animal pairings simply don’t produce viable offspring. Ever. One day some dodgy scientist may do so with genetic engineering, but until someone proves they are the product of such creation, we owe otherkind no legal consideration, subjective feelings or not.

                      Moreover, even if a particular transgender human is “making it all up” or is not driven biologically to our satisfaction, recognizing their identity costs us nothing. If someone we think is a human man lives and acts as a human woman, and acts lawfully and appropriately, what’s the problem? If, on the other hand, some guy insists he’s a bobcat and has the right to kill and eat our slow and fat citizens, that’s problematic.

                      Gender reassignment, by the way, is based on something more than “subjective feelings of womanhood.” The folks who are given this treatment and undergo it are vetted extensively. Almost all of them tried, very, very hard, to live in their apparent born gender, usually for decades. They often pursue reassignment because the stress of the disconnect is literally killing them with depression, drug abuse, self-harm. The ones who transition properly and get “where they’re supposed to be” usually have a 180-degree turnaround in their lives once they settle into their new body and public identity.

              • Will

                Ahem…. try searching on “Otherkin”.

          • Kenneth

            Slippery slope arguments are a glaring Hollywood-sign sized admission that they have no real argument of any merit to offer. It’s every bit the equivalent of pulling the fire alarm at school to get out of a final exam you never studied for.

            • Rose

              Garbage. Slippery slope arguments may violate some arcane debating rule but that has nothing to do with reality. Just compare society 30 years ago to how it is today.

            • Mr. X

              If that was a reference to my comment, it wasn’t a slippery slope, it was a reductio ad absurdum. Although even if it was, Rose would still be correct. Rejecting an argument because it’s a slippery slope is fine if you want to discuss something as a purely intellectual exercise; if you’re trying to determine which policies to actually implement, it’s perfectly legitimate to take into account the possibility of unintended consequences.

              • Kenneth

                I reject it not on the basis of arcane forensics technicality, but because it is an insincere argument designed to function as a smoke grenade to obscure your lack of arguments rooted in real-world scenarios.

                You attempt to assert that no reasoned distinction is ever possible if we dare stray beyond your personal absolutist conception of things. You say we will helplessly tumble down the abyss to experience the most absurd and extreme circumstances you can conceive. It is usually the most far-fetched scenario you can come up with, and often a way to disguise a hate-filled barb in sterile intellectual terms, equating gay marriage to bestiality, in this instance equating transgender people to delusional behavior.

                It’s a distraction technique and it’s also conceited. It asserts that your own position is the last safeguard to chaos itself. No new information can even be considered that contradicts what you “know” about the situation because it would just simply be too dangerous.

  • sjay

    It does have an impressive sponsor list — that is, the senators sponsoring the bill are among the more powerful in the Maryland State Senate. Unfortunately, passage of this bill may be spurred on by the beating of a transexual person that occurred last year in a fast food restaurant.

  • Kenneth

    Without even getting to the merits of this particular bill, we can see that the opposition to it is rooted in willful medieval ignorance of the science around gender and sexuality. A “former transgender” person? Seriously? PFOX is part of the same league of sectarian-religiously based “scientists” that produced the ex-gay ministry phenomenon. They are not regarded as credible by any real scientific, medical or psychology organization. People who believe that transgenderism is some sort of kinky lark people can slap themselves out of either has an ideological investment in that idea or is profoundly ignorant of the condition.

    • Adolfo

      I don’t think transgenderism is a kinky lark people can slap themselves out of. I do, however, think it is a condition that needs to be addressed through therapy and medicine. What it doesn’t need to be is normalized and protected by law.

      • Kenneth

        It is being addressed through therapy and medicine. The standard of care in medicine, real medicine, as opposed to ex-gay quackery, is to properly diagnose those who really have gender dysmorphia and then help them integrate their body and true gender identity.

        That should be protected by law, unless you advocate the sorts of beatings that led to the drafting of this bill. The words of “A Marylander” are a hate polemic, whether or not he/she cares to admit it or not. In casting transgender people as “morally twisted” by inference and characterizing them generally as sexual predators using gender as a ruse, they are providing intellectual and moral cover for violent discrimination.

        Maryland is not the first state to provide legal protections to transgender people in public accommodation. Where is this wave of predators using the cover of anti-discrimination laws? Can anyone here document even a single instance where a man, who self-identifies and lives as a man in day to day life, abused transgender laws just to game the system and sneak a peek in a restroom?

        • Rob

          What needs to change is the mind, not the body. It’s very odd that pumping a person full of hormones and mutilating his/her genitals because of something he or she thinks he or she should be is considered to be the proper medical course of action.

          • Kenneth

            We don’t, at present, have the technology to change the mind at the level required to solve gender identity issues. The only therapists who purport to have that ability are the quacks in the “ex-gay” ministries.

            • Hezekiah Garrett

              This thinking is everything wrong with Western medicine.

              It is also an affront to any kind of real paganism. I can only hope God is too merciful to let you spend an eternity of confrontation with real, clear-eyed Pagans. Having your arse handed to you again and again for your simplistic worship of technology would be too cruel for a merciful and loving God to allow.

    • kmk

      Nothing that someone is struggling with/against is something they can slap themselves out of. It is a very serious issue when, as Ashley pointed out, the incidence of depression, suicide, etc. is so high. Are you saying thatthose who struggle with sexual issues–and not just transgenderism, SSA, etc.–there are plenty of things that many struggle with–all have the same thoughts, desires, etc.? You would deny them the chance to even explore reasons for their struggle? That seems kind of antiquated to me, sort of puritanically repressive, in a way.

      I believe that the Catholic Church’s position is for all of us to strive for chastity, no matter our state in life. There are all kinds of sexual struggles and temptations–original sin has disrupted the balance within ourselves, with God, with others, with nature. Some struggles seem painfully harder, and that is hard to accept. I can fast and pray and hope for peace for them–I can’t imagine that cross. My hope for them is in Jesus.
      If Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth and Life, it is through carrying our own crosses and helping others to carry theirs that we find any kind of peace. God bless you–

      • Kenneth

        Nobody is proposing to deny them the chance to explore reasons for their struggles. It is the very core of gender reassignment surgery and other treatments. It is a years-long process of personal discernment and psychological evaluation to make sure whether the person’s perceived gender identity is real or the product of some delusion or fetish interest or attention need etc. There are people who are not accepted for reassignment treatment. There are also people whose chromosomes, hormones and physical features are deeply at odds and provide no clear biological path to gender identity.

        Transsexualism also has nothing to do with chastity or promiscuity, or with homosexuality per se. It is about how people see themselves and interact in day to day life in the body they have versus what they feel themselves to be. Many transgender people are in fact celibate, at least for some period of months or years after the transition. Nor are they gay by nature. A great many, if not a majority, are attracted to the opposite sex of the gender they transition to. In other words, many biological males who transition to live as women are partnered with men.

        The sentiment against the Maryland law, insofar as it has been expressed here, does not want to give transgender people “room to explore.” It seeks to make trans identity so humiliating, so dangerous that people have no choice but to straighten up and fly right according to your religion’s answer for them, and if they can’t do that to continue to live a lie and self-destruct. That’s puritanically repressive.

        • Gwen

          Very nice post Kenneth. Very well written, thought out and discussed. Also kmk makes his/her point without the venom and rancor that marks the rantings of the haters. Kmk writes about struggling with or against something. As with the many transgender/transsexual people I know, I don’t struggle with or against my gender. I am confident in my gender identity. I’ve known since I was four years old and had my first lesson in hiding my true self and living a lie to please others. What I and my friends and acquaintances struggle with is the bigotry and hatred we experience from others. If kmk and others like her want to help end that struggle, they well take the time to learn the truth and support proposed legislation which ends discrimination and bigotry based on hatred of those who are different. This means instead of taking Mark Shea’s article on face value, research the subject by reading both the pros and cons and not just the one-sided opinions Mark Shea put forward as the truth. Shea’s connections to the Mass Resistance article and the former transgender person’s ” inside picture of transgenderism” are anything but objective or the truth.
          In fact they are gross exaggeration of both situations. The real information is out there for anyone who seeks the truth.

          • Kenneth

            Unfortunately, the narrative within conservative Catholic and Christian circles holds that transgender people, along with gays, are how they are solely for the purpose of some freaky-deaky performance art rooted in the sexual revolution. They are how they are just to be a thumb in the eye to decent folk everywhere. They’re not interested in the science of it because they have, in their own eyes, invested the credibility of their faith in a position which says these people CAN’T be for real. They hand-pick their scientific fact, or, increasingly, simply invent entire new branches of pseudo-science to back their position, much like Young Earth Creationists. If the Church and others insist on taking an anti-scientific approach on these issues whenever the science doesn’t suit their pre-conceived notions, they will find that the credibility of their witness on other matters will suffer.

            • Gwen

              Thank you Kenneth for that reply. Very nicely put. Isn’t there something in the Bible about pulling the “log out of ones own eye first”? Or to put it into an old Colloquialism “They can’t see the forest for the trees”.

              • Hezekiah Garrett

                Don’t throw your shoulders out, folks.

                In the end, you are calling for mutilating bodies because you cant treat minds,

                Do what you want, but dont forget your approach is an admission of inability to treat the problem, and instead manage symptoms. It isnt some great and noble thing you support, it is an admission of powerlessness you are too stupid to even recognise.

                Sad, really. Especially for the walking wounded.

                • Kenneth

                  If you have a system of medicine which treats gender dysphoria more effectively than what’s out there, let’s have the evidence and the peer reviewed studies. If not, we all know what walks, and what sticks to the bottom of our wellies in the pasture.

                  I don’t think anyone involved with Western medicine is ashamed to admit that it can’t do everything as well as it would like to be able to do. The issue then becomes, do we do the best we can with the tools we have to mitigate obvious suffering, or do we tell transgender people “too bad. You should have been born 50 years from now when we have a full understanding of gene regulation in utero”?

  • David S.

    Where is Martin O’Malley’s Bishop? Why is this man not excommunicated?

    I lay this squarely at the feet of our Bishops and Cardinals who are too COWARDLY to take any action.

  • Gwen

    Why isn’t Martin O’Malley’s bishop praising the Maryland governor for living up to Christian ideals as taught by Jesus and following the laws of the Divine in wanting to treat all human beings as equals? Is it the fact that the deniers and haters would castigate the bishop for following the Divine’s law instead of man-made dogma?

    • Claude

      Kenneth and Gwen: an Amen from the peanut gallery.

    • Rob

      You are confusing (as many of the narratives in sexual politics today do, so I don’t blame you) equal treatment of a person with equal endorsement of his/her actions. The Christian thing to do is love and be merciful toward others (as we are doing in this thread) and, if there is sin, to instruct them to go and sin no more. To be sure, I believe you are doing the former (except when you baselessly accuse the Catholics responding with a generous spirit of “hate” or being “anti-science” — but you’ll find that we’re often the bigger people in most debates and can easily look beyond that) but denying the latter.

      Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. He loves — and died for! — all sinners. He did not instruct them to “go on and keep being tax collectors and prostitutes.”

      • Gwen

        Rob
        No, I am not confusing equal treatment of a person with equal endorsement of his/her actions. I and many others don’t need your endorsement to be who I/we are. What is needed is that you stop attempting to deny us dignity as humans and attempting to deny us equal rigbts which we are just as much entitled to as you and others who believe as you. Being who I am as the Divine created me is not a sin. The fact that you and others deny us equality in life unless we knuckle under to your religious dogma is not loving the sinner it’s down right bigotry and discrimination based on religious belief.
        Now, I don’t going around say that others who violate the laws written in Leviticus and Deuteronomy are sinners who should be discriminated against or denied equal rights under the law of the land. But I could as there isn’t one person alive who follows all of them. These proscriptions are all equal and all “abominations” in the eyes of the Divine. Or at least that’s the modern interpretation. Catholics and other Christians who use their religious dogma to deny equal rights to others. I don’t know about you but when I go into the bathroom, I’m there to take care of bodily functions just like everyone else. Now I know there are some who will take advantage of the situation to do harm. However don’t lump us all in the same bowl. I certainly don’t lump all Catholics and Christins in with the haters, only those who deserve it.
        As for sin, while I have indulged in sin on several occasions, living as the Divine created me and in that reality is not a sin. However attempting to make anyone live in contradiction to their true selves and denying them the ability to live concert with their Divine creation is not an act of love or being merciful. Attempting to mold others into your religious beliefs and dogma is true sin. In the Christian tradition Jesus loves all and died for everyone since we are all sinners. But I don’t remember there being anything in the teachings of Jesus that says you have the right to set yourselves up as judge and jury and decide who gets to be treated as equals in society or under the law. If you think that being Catholic or Christian gives you the right to decide whether others should be treated with dignity and respect or not you are wrong. This thread has nothing to do with love and being merciful towards others if you deny others their humanity, endorse treating them as less than full citizens and deny them full participation in life and equality. None of that is much like the teachings of Jesus.
        This thread is in reaction to what Mark Shea wrote and the hateful misrepresentations written in the links he provided. Not to mention the misguided replies by those who are anti-transgender people.
        I closing I’ll just say that I doubt the veracity in your following words, “But you’ll find that we’re often the bigger people in most debates and can easily look beyond that”. I respect your right to your own religious beliefs, just don’t attempt to use them as an excuse to treat me and others as lesser than yourself. When you and others use those beliefs to deny us jobs, homes, and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness you are not being loving or merciful. Stop thinking that Christianity with all it’s dogma is the only religious beliefs that matter. I know that it matters to you but it doesn’t matter to me except when it is used to dehumanize me, relegate me to second-class citizenship and deny me my Divine given sovereignty. If you can’t understand that underneath all your hype that is what is being done then the only hope I can provide you is to pray to the Divine to reveal the truth to you and others who agree with you

    • Dale Price

      And if transgenderism is eventually detectable in the womb, O’Malley will be equally cool with those who hire an abortionist to suck said life from the womb with a vacuum or carve it out with a metal appliance.

      His bishop will be equally inert, and the Divine will smile with equal blandness on the entire thing.


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X