Do We Need Criticism Within Criticism Within Criticism…

… What you are about to read is a post by me criticizing a guy for writing a post criticizing Fr. Longenecker for writing a post criticizing Michael Voris.

Who does that guy think he is criticizing someone like that. For shame. For that I judge him harshly and openly denounce his criticism of the good padre by… criticizing him?

Wait. What?

Jesus weeps!

Now you can all go back to whatever it was you were doing… which I am sure was praying or feeding the poor or something non-critical.

About Katrina Fernandez

Mackerel Snapping Papist

  • CT Catholic Corner

    “It is better that the truth be known than that scandal be covered
    up.” -St. Augustine

    Personally, I’ve always seen Michael Voris’ “The Vortex” as living this quote by Saint Augustine. There’s been far too much “cover up” in our wonderful Church, let the light shine on it and expose the Truth for all to see. JMO

    • http://rosarynovice.stblogs.com/ Augustine

      Or perhaps, as a professional Catholic doomsayer, Voris makes mountains of molehills because, you know, he cannot be wrong.

      • CT Catholic Corner

        Voris himself admits to mistakes (if you listen to his video). As far as the “professional Catholics” term… he was quoting Pope Benedict XVI who said (and I quote): “The bureaucracy is spent and tired. It is sad that there
        are what you might call professional Catholics who make a living on their
        Catholicism, but in whom the spring of faith flows only faintly, in a few
        scattered drops.”
        Pope Benedict and Voris are SPOT ON, but you are free to disagree with them. Whatever floats your boat. :)

        • http://rosarynovice.stblogs.com/ Augustine

          I don’t disagree with B16, but with Voris identifying others with such epithet without evidence, or calumny, a mortal sin.

  • Lynne

    I’m tired of happy talk and rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic goes down… And the people doing the happy talk (Patheos/CA etc)are in business with the people who have the means to save the Titanic (the bishops).

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Yes, because that is exactly what my post was about.

      /end sarcasm

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

        I left my bitchy pants at home today. Looks like you went out without your sense of humor.

  • dan hunter

    Mr Voris is doing more for the Catholic lay apostolate than anyone else in a position of media prominence.
    God bless Mr Voris!

  • mephis

    I must say, as someone who doesn’t live in the USA, that from the outside all of this looks very strange & a little messed up. Whenever I see anyone criticising Voris anywhere in any way an army appears to defend his every word and deed. Bishops seem to be regarded by some with only disgust, scorn and distrust. And all this about “the Titanic going down”, “the corruption and rot in the Church”, etc. etc…. I don’t know, but all of this sounds like the polar opposite of the Church as I’ve seen it. O_o Look, guys: Voris is not infallible, the Church, thank God, does not depend on human captains to steer it (or we’d have sunk centuries ago) & I don’t know what your bishops did to make you so mad, but the hate directed towards them seems anything but healthy to me.

    This has been worrying me for quite a while. It’s hard to put into words, so I apologize if I’m not making my point clearly. :( I guess I’d just like to point out: look around! You’re part of God’s Church! That’s freaking amazing! Smile a little! :)

    • Judith77

      memphis, thank you for that clear message. Another point: What keeps Voris and his followers from using channels to the Holy See when they encounter abuse?

      • mephis

        I did not want to imply that anyone supporting Voris can not or does not know how to smile. I myself can and do smile often enough, but there are plenty of times I need someone to remind me to look up from the ugliness of these times, and see all that beauty and hope that dwarf my problems.

        I guess what I was trying to say in that last line is that things are not all bleak and corrupted, but that there’s a lot of good to celebrate in the Church. That doesn’t mean there aren’t problems, or that we shouldn’t try to fix them. But I don’t think we *can* fix anything if we don’t keep the beauty, hope & joy of God in sight. That’s *not* to say all Voris supporters have lost sight of God or anything like that! Only that sometimes I see a comment that sound so bleak, hopeless and *bitter* (especially when it comes to the bishops), and those worry me.

        • Guest

          You’re living in la-la land. The Pope does live in the Holy See, it’s his own office, Peter’s office.

        • oregon catholic

          I don’t get your picture. Is that a lesbian wedding?

    • Iota

      Memphis,

      As another non-American Catholic, I guess it’s a bit like this:

      Apparently Catholicism in the US has some serious issues. Some of which, I admit, made my head spin when I first read about them.

      The problem with your local Church having serious issues, of whatever kind, is that they are your issues. And they hurt you. Like a broken tooth, arm or spine. I does need fixing. And can drive you nuts. People do, after all, estrange themselves from the Church because their parish priest is awful, for example.

      On the other hand, a broken body is not the end of the world. But when it hurts really badly, you might forget that. And end up believing that whatever is happening in your local Church IS in fact the end all be all of Christendom.

      Personally, when I fell like that I like to take a moment to reflect on the global, universal Church. The Catholics in China, India, all the different countries of Africa, in the Middle East, all Catholic brethren and sisters of the non-Latin rites, the ones in Latin America and the ones in the US. The Catholicism of theology professors and eight year old children.

      All of them with their own problems. Their own strengths. All of them praying for me and my local church simply whenever they attend Mass or say Our Father. And then I sometimes try to return the favour.

      Personally, I find that helps

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      BRAVO!

  • Stephen Lowe

    Father does not sound like he truly loves his traditional brothers and sisters. There is always a qualifier whenever he writes of us and I know he is probably not aware of it. I invite him to go to confession in the Raleigh diocese and experience the wonders of modernism all for himself…Act of Contrition not needed, maybe, just maybe, the priest will turn off his I phone while he listens to your sins, penance may or may not be dispensed….oh, the wonders of modernism. But let’s just put our head back in the sand and sing kumbuya.

    • InkDuBlog

      Raleigh, NC? Where in that diocese are you? (Also be very glad it’s not Rochester, NY. There are interesting tales told about that diocese–many of which are true.)

      • Stephen Lowe

        I am in southern wake county but have visited many raleigh area churches when looking for a parish. The only one that fosters reverence and adoration of Our Lord is in Dunn (Sacred Heart). I pray for the parishioners of the other churches I have visited.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          You speak the truth about Sacred Heart.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      I personally know Fr. L and your assumptions of him would be incorrect. He loves tradition. I just think all the grousing traditionalists tend to do – I’m guilty of it too – starts to make one grow weary.

      Hell, I grouse so much sometimes I can’t even stand myself.

      • Stephen Lowe

        Father should know ‘you reap what you sow’. A little love and compassion goes a long way, especially for a religious. It is unbecoming to come across belittling and defensive again and again. Status quo kinda sucks (particularly in my diocese) and tradition is constantly placed in inferior light compared to harmony and tolerance. Knowing what these pundits make and how they support the status quo brings frustration front and center. There is a lot of frustration out here in the desert. I am not sympathetic to Fathers position on this matter. Things must improve or the true faith will atrophy and become subservient to secular humanism. Well paid pundits seem to be acting as ushers for this march and not guardians of the true faith.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          Let me ask you, with all sincerity, what do you think about Voris’s demeanor? If Fr. L bothers you why doesn’t the belittling manner of Voris not bother you? Isn’t Voris a “pundit” of sorts?

          Is it OK to be condescending as long the person doing is it saying something you agree with?

          Look, I like Voris. The person Voris. The Voris I met in Rome. But the Vortex Voris I don’t particularly care for. I like my faith with a little less doom-saying, But that’s just me.

          Anyway, it just seems to me that you don’t like Fr. L for the very same tone that Voris takes everyday.

          PS- How does it help anyone -faith or Church- to be told they are not guardians of the true faith if they even so much as question Voris?

          • Stephen Lowe

            As a parent we often have to provide correction to our child and no matter how much love we try to instill in it, it is frequently misinterpreted by our child and a tantrum results. It seems to me that the status quo constantly is having a tantrum over Voris and miss his point entirely. No I do not agree with Voris entirely but Fathers response did not reflect any honest attempt to address the issue Voris raised, he just had a tantrum and fell short of authentic Catholic values.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            You fail to see my point. Aren’t trads throwing a tantrum bc Fr. L said something negative about Voris? How is their tantrum any more right then the one you say Fr. L is throwing?

            And I know you didn’t mean it that way… but I would be hesitant to put myself in a position that implies Fr. L is like a child throwing a tantrum and you are the wise all knowing parent. He is a priest, an incredibly intelligent priest at that.

          • Stephen Lowe

            Well, I leave it to you to determine who is the parent and who is the child. We can both agree that the Church will prevail against all evil, but that it can also improve and sometimes, the lowly laity, even a low life like Voris, can point out issues that need to be addressed and changed. Father is indeed a wise man, but like all men, he can fall short of perfection, and I believe he has in this case. You however, are my favorite on Pathos and I thank you for being so very real and not holier than thou – for as yesterday’s epistle in the EF said, anyone who thinks he is somebody, is actually a nobody. Keep up the good work and sorry if I came across too rigid.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Rigid? Goodness, not at all. I enjoyed our exchange. I am truly trying to understand the phenom that is Voris. I guess having met him and seeing he’s nothing at all like the Vortex Voris (he smiles & even laughs *gasp!*) makes things different I suppose.That and I admire Fr. L, In real life the two might enjoy each others company.

            But what do I know. I never got the Fr. Z or Corapi thing either.

  • steve .

    I don’t particularly care of any of the parties in this discussion; but, based on some preliminary research, I’m taking the toupee guy’s side.

    It seems this whole episode happened over something said about Trads on Catholic Answers and now Catholic Answers is having a cash flow problem. See, the thing about entities like Catholic Answers is that they love people like Trads…when they want money. People who consider themselves “traditional”/”orthodox”/etc, well…these are usually the folks willing to part with a few shekles to support things like Catholic radio. It’s like when I was Protestant. For years and years and generations, the faithful sent their money to build seminaries; and, when the seminaries were built, to fund endowments. Over time, the seminaries became little worlds unto themselves where they did and said what they wanted and the people in the pews, the quaint ignorant folk that they were, just needed to keep quiet and let the adults run things. Catholic media seems to follow this same model.

    Anyway, if one is going to rely on public donation for their salary, then don’t piss off the people who are buttering your bread ’cause they will take their shekels elsewhere and leave you with nothing but a “boo hoo” column from Fr. Longenecker.

    Oh, as an aside, it amuses me that there is an army of people who criticize the army of people who always defend Voris when he is criticized. Silly internet. I can’t quit you.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      It is a silly internet but I too am addicted to the amusement. And I wasn’t really criticizing the guy who was criticizing the guy who criticized that other guy. I think we need Voris, Longenecker, and guys.

  • Mitchell H

    Kat, is it possible that the answer is for priests to not have personal blogs? I’ve purposely refrained from either viewing Voris’ video or reading Fr. Longenecker blog, because I think the real issue is not this exchange per se, but that the very nature of the blogosphere encourages everything from misunderstanding to lines drawn in the sand – what it seldom does is promote thoughtful discussion.

    Personally, I think a priest should never become the occasion of sin. Of course in their teaching authority they have an obligation to speak the truth, but at the same time should they be in situations where their writings can provoke neutral observers to anger that violates charity? Furthermore, should priests put themselves in positions that are themselves proximate causes of sin? In other words, knowing the slop that can be the blogosphere, should a priest go there at all, knowing that based on his tempermant, he himself could fall into the same sin of intolerance, lack of charity, unwitting cruelty, etc.? Some people simply aren’t tempermentally suited for blogging. There’s no sin in that. Perhaps the sin is in blogging when you shouldn’t be.

    This works both ways, of course, and the same standard can and should be applied to everyone in the blogosphere. I think, however, some of the concern here comes from the idea that priests should, by definition, be held to a higher standard of behavior. Fr. Longenecker, or Fr. Z, or any other blogging priest, does have to answer to a higher authority than laybloggers, Perhaps the answer is in fact that a priest shouldn’t be allowed to blog without some type of ecclesastical imprimatur which obligates him to avoid becoming involved in any discussion which casts aspersions on the Church.


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