How God Limits Satan’s Power

How God Limits Satan’s Power May 27, 2019

Since Satan is called the “god of this world,” how does God still have control over his actions?

The “god” of this World

A quick glance at the news should tell us all we need to know about the state of this world. Violence, as in the days of Noah, is growing worse, but there’s a sinister minister behind it all. For example, the Apostle Paul wrote that “if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing” (2 Cor 4:3), and the reason the gospel is veiled to the world is because “the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God” (2 Cor 4:4). That would seem to indicate that Satan’s winning, but wait! The Bible also tells us that we “were dead in the trespasses and sins” (Eph 2:1), and all of us were, at one time, “following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience” (Eph 2:2). And if not for the grace of God, we’d still be dead. Dead in our sins…dead men and dead women walking, but God intervened because “God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved” (Eph 2:4-5). The point behind this is there is an invisible enemy that works visibly, either through powers or people, but he can only go so far.

The Invisible Enemy

Why does the world seem so vulnerable to satanic influence? For one thing, they do not even believe in Satan. Someone who they don’t believe exists, is no threat to them, but we know that “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places” (Eph 6:12). It’s easier to fight something that’s visible; something that’s right before us, but an invisible enemy is more dangerous because you don’t always see them, however, there’s one who lurks around us today, and he is alive and active. He is so deceptive that he can imitate the gospel and the preachers while deceiving millions. For example, many wealth and prosperity gospels have infiltrated the church today and the shift, like consumerism, is to “what can the church do for me.” We’ve watered down the gospel by eliminating words like sin, the cross, the blood of the Lamb of God, sanctification, holiness, and repentance. He’s deceptive and crafty, and his messages do make you feel really good, but remember, his main purpose is to strike you and other believers down, and to veil the true gospel of repentance and faith (Mark 1:14-15). That teaching doesn’t require anyone to change, so it’s not really the gospel at all.

God’s Devil

Martin Luther once said that Satan is on a leash, or that the Devil is God’s Devil. Satan can only do as much as God allows, but even in Satan’s evil, God brings about much good. We can look at the cross to see that (John3:16-17). It is not accurate to say “the Devil made me do it,” but rather, the Devil influenced me to do it, but we are still responsible for our actions. The Apostle Peter was told by Jesus, “Get behind me, Satan” because Peter was trying to have Jesus avoid the cross, which was our only hope. That’s the same thing Satan wanted because he knew it sealed his fate (John 19:28-30). When Satan had been roaming the earth, presumably to make people’s lives miserable, the “Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil” (Job 1:8), but Satan wanted to prove to God that Job was just “being good” so that God would bless him. Then, “Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land” (Job 1:9-10), so Satan asked the Lord to “stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face” (Job 1:11). That’s when the Lord told Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord” (Job 1:11-12). Satan did nearly destroy Job and his faith, but Satan could not take Job’s life. That right is only given to the One Who gives life, and that is God.


Can A Person Be Demon PossessedLucifer may well have been God’s greatest creation. He was splendid beyond description, but verses like Isaiah 14:11-15, Ezekiel 28:12-19 and Revelation 12:4 indicate that Satan was tossed out of heaven, and about 1/3rd of the angels followed him. These became demons. Instead of being a light bearer in heaven, he became full of darkness due to his pride. He became so lifted up, that his logic left him, and he thought he could even take over the thorn of God, even becoming God (Isaiah 14:14)! By the way, there are a few cults that teach that we can become gods, and that has a satanic source too, but that’s what pride does. It blinds you to the truth. Satan sealed his own fate by rebelling against God, and will face a final torment that is simply indescribable. It says that “the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever” (Rev 20:11). If satanic influence begins to affect you, then remind Satan of his future.


The Devil can only do so much. God allows him to roam the earth, like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour, so we must remain diligent (1 Pet 5:8), but more likely, it is demonic influence that we face. That’s because Satan is not omnipresent. He has to roam about on the earth, but Satan is the god of this world and will try to influence the leaders of this world, and he’s done a very good job, don’t you think, but even this will play right into the sovereign hands of God. That’s because even the Devil is God’s Devil.

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is an ordained elder of the Brethren Church and a Pastor and Prison Minister in the State of Kansas, but also a writer at Christian Quotes and What Christians Want to Know which address questions about the Bible. He also plants ministries like nursing home ministries, Outreach for the poor, and other evangelistic activities, and check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • pud

    I swear, you get more bizarre, delusional and infantile with every ridiculous willfully ignorant essay.

    Demonstrate the existence of this invisible undetectable agent called “satan” Show that this “being” actually exists and plays a role in this absurd drama you mindlessly believe is being played out for your deities amusement.

    “God allows him to roam the earth, like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour,”

    Tell me janitor jack..what does this say about your all loving “god” that he would allow his “children” to be “devoured”?

    What a low opinion you have of your deity who despite being all powerful and eternal is obsessed with this tiny planet and this ego boosting drama he plays with his little toys.

    “That’s because even the Devil is God’s Devil.” LOL….so this “devil” knows the playbook but runs around frantically even as “he” knows how it ends and how futile his efforts are….you have to be out of your skull insane to swallow this tripe.

    Is the Earth flat jack? Do little red demons sit on your shoulder whispering in your ear?

    “Satan sealed his own fate by rebelling against God, and will face a final torment that is simply indescribable.”….But jack, it’s all part of the omnipotent, omniscient “gods” plan! You know, the one that includes unspeakable suffering for eternity if one doesn’t kiss the deities ass and sing his praises all day and night….wow! You are one sick man. If you weren’t surrounded by equally delusional people you would be in a mental institution under strict medical care.

    “This is the true horror of religion…that people by the billions believe what only lunatics could believe on their own” SH

  • pud

    No sense knowing the truth of your mythology is there jack? No point in understanding your delusional claims as being completely contrary to the actual historical evidence is there jack? Why dwell in reality eh? You’d have get an actual job that didn’t involve lying to people and indoctrinating children with terror tactics…can’t have that can you?

  • Susan Jane Elohim
  • Susan Jane Elohim

    Jesus’ greatest enemy is not Satan. It is death.

    “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15:26).

    Google and read The Death of Death by Dr. Ernest L. Martin. On the Associates for Scriptural Knowledge site.

  • Susan Jane Elohim

    Psalm 91:3, King James Version

    3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

    Charles S. Spurgeon’s explanation:

    If Moses wrote this Psalm he might represent the fowler as being in his case the king of Egypt, who sought to slay him, or the Amalekites, who pounced upon Israel in the plain, when they little expected it. If David penned it, he might have compared Saul to the fowler, for he himself says, he was hunted like a partridge upon the mountains. But we believe, if the verse be applicable to either of those cases, it was intended by the Psalmist not to have a private interpretation, but to be applicable to all time; and we believe it is spoken concerning that arch-enemy of souls, the great deceiver, Satan, of whom we just now sang,

    “Satan, the fowler, who betrays
    Unguarded souls a thousand ways.”

    “The prince of the power of this world, the spirit which still worketh in the children of disobedience,” is like a fowler, always attempting to destroy us. It was once said by a talented writer, that the old devil was dead, and that there was a new devil now; by which he meant to say, that the devil of old times was a rather different devil from the deceiver of these times.

    More here:

    The Snare of the Fowler

    • pud

      No such character as “moses” ever existed. duh

      Quoting your deranged book is not evidence for the truth of the book.duh

      Quoting another religious lunatic is not evidence at all. duh

    • Have a look at the religious crackpots over at Charisma magazine who believe that Christians and others can be raped by the devil. It’s sheer lunacy.(

    • kyuss

      what you just wrote is puerile stupidity of the lowest sort.

  • If Satan does not exist, then he can have no power. People are responsible for any evil that they commit. How do we know that invisible entities like Satan, demons, angels, god(s), fairies, leprechauns, goblins etc. exist? We don’t but we can find no, or little, evidence for their existence, yet some people have claimed to “know” that these entities exist. How do we distinguish between the deranged, the deluded and those who are sane, but mistaken?

    Sure, evil exists and good exist. But what evidence is there for invisible entities?. Can holy books written by ignorant and deranged savages tell you? What reliance do we place on religious gurus to tell us the truth? What good are temples, mosques, synagogues or churches for finding the truth about these matters?

    • pud

      Actually “good” and “evil” do not “exist”….both are subjective descriptions of human behavior. What’s “good” or “evil” to one person or culture may or not be the same for another. The religious need “good” and “evil” to be actual things but in truth they are just “descriptions” or “concepts” having no form or substance. Not trying to be a nit picker but words matter a lot to me and clear definition of terms is critical to solid arguments.

      • I wasn’t implying that “good” and “evil” imply objective concepts of morality that are true for all time, but only that concepts of “good” and “evil” exist, whether we agree with particular concepts of them or not.

        Perhaps I should have said that various concepts of good and evil exist in that different people hold to different concepts and these concepts are not made up by invisible beings but by humans whose cultures often differ and such concepts often differ due to different philosophies or different social structures and other factors that exist over time.

      • Hey Pud,

        If you want a good laugh, have a look at what those religious Charismatic and Pentecostal nuts wrote over at Charisma magazine on “Can You Be Raped By the Devil?”. Many of them believe that the devil can rape people and that there are demons called Succubus and Incubus who can also rape people. How deranged can these crackpots be? They urgently need to visit a psychiatrist. (See the link that I provided to this article, to that religious fruitcake calling herself Susan Jane Elohim)

        • pud

          Holy shit! I can’t look! But we all know of course that demons do rape women and leave telltale marks on them which is why we don’t suffer witches to live. LOL!

          • And a holy ghost supposedly got a virgin pregnant!

          • Yes! And these sanctimonious religious nuts burned innocent women over whom they held religious and political power for hundreds of years. John Calvin, that Protestant Reformer, said that the authorities should use the type of wood that burns slowly so that they could roast these unfortunate women and make them suffer even more with a slow, agonizing death. What a champion of compassion, he was!

          • pud

            It’s estimated that “christians” killed as many as 300,000 “witches” to save their souls. Clearly they were doing the work of the lord! Neighbors cow dies? WITCH! BURN HER! Birthmark? WITCH! BURN HER! This is what you get when your world view is crafted from a book written by primitive barbaric ignorant savages.

          • You are right! The holy book is the major problem. It’s written by barbaric savages. No compassionate person could write much of the stuff that is written in the bible and is said to be commanded by Yahweh.

  • pud

    “god” limits “satans” power but doesn’t eliminate it…thus allowing “satan” to inflict suffering while this “god” watches…got it!


    If God threw the Devil down into Hades, then why does the Devil keep going in and out of Hades like it was a revolving door. God must be one lousy jailer if he can’t keep the Devil lock up.

    • Jack Wellman

      Obviously, you’ve not read much of the Bible

      • DDRLSGC

        Sorry, but if the lord can’t keep the devil lock up, then he is not all powerful as people proclaim that he is. You have a lot of Christians like Pat Robinson who have been reading the Bible since the day they were born and still don’t understand the concepts of it let alone practice what they preach.

      • DDRLSGC

        I only was given various portions of the Bible to read by the religious authorities. Sue them for giving a poor education of the Bible.

  • Jack Wellman

    Please believers, pray for all these trolls you see “commenting.”. They are so lost and full of hate and anger. Only God can save them.

    • The topic is “How God Limits Satan’s Power”.

      Some of us don’t believe in the existence of God or Satan. This doesn’t mean that we hate invisible beings nor that we are angry. You seem to assume that any criticism of the bible is criticism of God. Is this because you presuppose that all of the bible is God-breathed?

      The OT says that Israel should not allow a witch to live. Nowhere does the NT say this explicitly but many Christians, in times past, supported burning “witches” at the stake based on the OT command.

      Now Christians might deal with this command in different ways. Some might say that capital punishment ought to be applied to witches. Some dominion theologians (that subset called Theonomists) support this view because they say that OT laws were meant to be applied to all nations.

      Other Christians would say that Jesus is the Word of God and that the OT command for capital punishment to be applied to witches no longer applies. Some would say that Jesus implied that capital punishment ought to be abolished (e.g. the women caught in the act of adultery).

      Other Christians would say that not all of the bible is the Word of God. Some Progressive Christians would say that we should love God through loving our needy neighbour including our enemies. So commands to execute witches would be seen by some of these Christians as not coming from God, even though they are in the bible.

      Do you place progressive Christians in the same camp as atheists and agnostics? And why do you think that atheists are wrong to critique the bible? Weren’t some parts of the bible written by barbaric, bloodthirsty, violent and ignorant savages who created Yahweh in their own likeness? It’s a good thing today that most Christians don’t support capital punishment for witches. A very big problem, if it was applied today, would be how to identify a “witch”. In the past many vulnerable and innocent women were accused of witchcraft and burnt at the stake. How did God limit Satan’s power when many innocent women were burnt while some Christians cheered the burning on?

  • OldArmy

    God created millions of people who He created only for the purpose for them to be destroyed ?

  • corky

    God must not be powerful enough to destroy the devil?

    • Jack Wellman

      It is apparent that you have not read Revelation 20. Please do. God wins.

      • DDRLSGC

        Don’t see God winning at all.

        • Andres Desaya

          You don’t see it but God sees it!

          God will eliminate SATAN and his cohorts in the right time. Just be patient, even in human justice there are procedures. God is just allowing the Devil to demonstrated evilness to the fullest…then Eliminate Him to the fullest also…timing is crucial.

          God is a just judge and wise God. We are given a chance to decide and choose whom to follow…goodness or evilness. Follow evil and destruction or follow God’s offer of Everlasting Life.
          God’s job is to do the wiining…your job is to follow the believe and follow the Winner!

          CHOOSE! just simply CHOOSE whom to follow for now while you have the chance. Follow God my friend. Don’t doubt He is winning.

          Choose God and He will give you everlasting life of perfection. Believe!

          • DDRLSGC

            Again, don’t see God winning. After 2,000 years, don’t you think it is time that God did something by now? What do you mean by timing is crucial? Since God is all powerful, he doesn’t need to time things.

          • Jack Wellman

            Victory is not declared until it is finished: It’s not about “winning,” It’s about”won” (Rev 20:10)!

          • DDRLSGC

            Sorry, but as Vincent Lombardi say “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.” Don’t you think that it should have been finished by now?

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, Pastor, our Salvation is already won in the cross.

            But also, Christ has given us the privilige and honor to participate and “fight a good fight….and finish the race”…for our heavenly rewards.

          • DDRLSGC

            Rev 20:10 doesn’t say anything about it being “won”

          • Andres Desaya

            This is Jack’s not mine. I did not even read this verse yet, sometimes we put the wrong verses,,this must be the case.

          • DDRLSGC

            Doesn’t change the fact the Biblical phrase doesn’t stated that it has been “won.”

          • Andres Desaya

            Pastor Jack gave a one word description “won” of that verse. When there is great war between good and evil, and evil end up being burned. That the battle is “Won”…

            Come on you are smarter than that! literal huh!. Are you smart or just pretending to be smart.
            I believe you are smart and a winner…Don’t act like stupid and a loser…Come on!! you know better than that!

          • Jack Wellman

            Perhaps “Done” is a one word expression of a three word accomplishment: “It is finsihed.”

          • Andres Desaya


          • DDRLSGC

            It is not finished; otherwise, it would have been done a long time ago.

          • DDRLSGC

            You are the one that is acting like a stupid loser and you have right wing Christians who take the Bible more literally like making slaves out of workers, treating their wives and kids like second class citizens, etc.

          • DDRLSGC

            Doesn’t say anything about the victory already being “won” in Rev 20:10.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, we long for Our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ to come and restore things after 2,000 years…that is our prayers!

            Timing has nothing to do with His Power. It does not mean that He is not doing the “Coup de gras” because He does not have that Power yet. He has that Power and Authority anytime…there are other Divine reasons.

          • DDRLSGC

            You are the one that brought up timing. What do you mean that God doesn’t have the power? If he had the power, Satan would have been lock up a long time ago. If he didn’t have the power, Satan would have throw God into Hell. What are the other divine reasons? Does the Bible say what are the divine reasons.

          • Andres Desaya

            You did not understand my comment. He has Power, absolute Power to eliminate Satan right away but chooses not to do that yet. God does things on His own time.

            Yes, that is what Satan with his arrogance to dethrown God, but instead God will burn him in hell including those fallen angels and humans who want to follow him.

            One obvious Divine reason is, because human population grows as time goes then God wants to add more humans to be with him in heaven…God lost 1/3 of angels who followed Satan but now creating billions of humans that has a choice to believe in His goodness and follow Him…to eternity.

            That means proven loyal angels and proven loyal human beings to be with Him everlasting in perfection.

            Whom would you like to believe…God is bad or God is good? If you think Satan is good then follow him, if you think God is good then follow Him. If you think Satan is evil and you want to become evil then follow him…

            Choose and choose well. Be smart unlike PUD…or are you like Pud? or you like Pud or are you PUD?

            It is up to you to decipher and choose…I can’t choose for you…who is who?

          • DDRLSGC

            I understand your comment completely. God doesn’t have absolute power; otherwise, the Devil would have been lock in Hades a long, long, long time ago. You can’t even explain what are the divine reasons why he doesn’t have absolute power.

            You seem to forget that there are a lot of humans who belong to a different religion who have a different perspective of God and they have several Gods. I doubt they will believe the Christian view of God. Will god send them to Hades for that?

            Well, in the Old Testament, God did some terrible things which makes him a very bad person:

          • Andres Desaya

            O, yes, Jesus Christ loves and will save all beings who worships Him and follow His goodness whatever religion he is in, whether he is a christian, hindu, muslim, bhuddist..even good atheist Jesus will save.

            The Bible says, in heaven, “no one will be preaching to his neighbour because all will know Him…” humans will have eternity to know who God is..Jesus Christ will introduce Himself to those who worship and honor God although here on earth have different knowledge about God because of diversity of country, culture, geography etc.

            Those who will go to helll will be those evil men who refuses to follow goodness and throw away God just because they have pride in their hearts…**be careful PUD, you know who God is…don’t throw Him away because you are disappointed with Him….disappointments are part of this human life. Hating God and throwing Him away because our expectations are not met is a different thing…be forewarned PUD!!

          • DDRLSGC

            How can Christ save all those who worship him when they belong to different religions where even the name Jesus Christ doesn’t exist in their vocabulary?

            Humans don’t have eternity to know who God is because they have a limited life span of 100 years tops. If God exists, people have a right to be disappointed with him. Disappointment are a part of life? You can’t blame people for killing themselves are too many disappointments in life. People can only take so much.

          • Andres Desaya

            The Bible says, “There is only one God and the God of the jews is the same God of the gentiles..”. Not because you do not know God as Jesus does not mean you are not praying to Him…Jesus acknowledges and will save everyone that prays to God because He is God.

            As Jesus said “In this fold a I have my sheep but also outside of this fold I have other sheep…I will call them too and they will hear my voice…and there will be one fold…”

            Actually, relationship with God can be personal or non-personal, as long as you follow His principle of goodness (which is against evil), even though you are an unbeliever or have atheistic tendencies you are still His sheep and will save you.

            Again, the people who are in real danger of not being saved are those who knows God and His goodness, His offer of everlasting but says, “I don’t like it..”, cause God can not force us to live with Him eternally.

            **you misundertood my point when I said “we have eternity to know God” (I did not mean in this earthly lifetime)…
            I meant that since we will be living with Him forever, we will “know” or experience how good He really is as He claims forever….we will know.

            Yes, God does understands our failing human nature…there are many humans who took their own lives because they were disappointed and can’t take the challenges of this earthly life will be saved.
            But then these people might have been stronger and continued the will to live and face these challenges if they relied on God’s promise of strength.
            But of course God understands their situation fully, as He is a Forgiving and a Loving God, trust and obey, believe that He is a good God no matter what….as He claims that this is His nature.
            All we have to do is reciprocate His Love by trusting, believing and obeying Him.

          • DDRLSGC

            The Bible doesn’t say anything about other religions having the same God that the Christian and Jews have. There are many people who do not believe in prayer and you have no proof that Jesus acknowledge and will save people who pray to God. You also have many people who pray to God for their health or the health of their loved ones and many of them died and their love ones died despite the fact that they pray to God.

            “Yes, God does understands our failing human nature…there are many humans who took their own lives because they were disappointed and can’t take the challenges of this earthly life will be saved”

            Doesn’t explain why many Christian denominations impose on their followers the idea that suicide is a sin?

            “But then these people might have been stronger and continued the will to live and face these challenges if they relied on God’s promise of strength.”

            You have no proof of that and none of us were asks whether we wanted to be brought into this world and wanted to deal with “challenges of this earthly life.”

            “ll we have to do is reciprocate His Love by trusting, believing and obeying Him.”

            Again, there is the problem of have free will and obeying him. If he wanted blind obedience, then he should have not given us free will.

          • Andres Desaya

            Look around you there are many proofs,,testimojies of hundreds or thousands or even millions… if that is what you are looking.

            STOP COMPLAINING and start fighting and winning!..You are already a winner!…claim victory and respond with Joy with the Lord, in the Lord..

            If you are feeling down, repeat what king David said “Restore the joy of your salvation….”

          • DDRLSGC

            No there are no proofs, testimonies, etc. of whether we were asked on whether we wanted to be brought on this planet and wanted to deal with the “challenges of this earthly life.”

            Stop preaching when you have nothing to back up your statements that the victory has already been won nor have answer any of my questions with any logical answers. You are just running off your mouth and spotting off biblical phrases that are not relevant.

          • But King David was a figure of Jewish mythology, then he never said “Restore the joy of your salvation”, did he? If God doesn’t exist how is there any joy of any salvation to be restored? If God does exist, how do we know that there is any “salvation”? Maybe God is completely different (if he/she or it exists) from how humans conceive him/her or it to be.

          • If God is the God of the Jews and the Gentiles and some atheists are Jews as well as some gentiles being Jews, then isn’t God the God of the atheists?

          • Correction.

            If God is the God of the Jews and also the God of the gentiles and their are atheists among the Jews as well as the gentiles, then according to your logic, isn’t God the God of the atheists?

          • So if an atheist is compassionate and kind and loves their fellow human being, are you saying that Jesus has saved them?

          • Hi Andres,

            Do you practice meditation and yoga? You seem to be a good person? Slow and controlled breathing can calm our minds and give us inner peace. If Jesus was the Prince of inner peace wasn’t he practising Buddhist controlled and slow breathing?

          • Hi Andres,

            Many good atheists practice slow and controlled breathing and loving-kindness meditations. This helps them achieve inner peace and they become peace makers with other people.

            Some of these are non theist Quakers. You should study them.

            Others practice Yoga for strength, flexibility, endurance and balance. Some do this not only for physical activity but for mental and emotional strength. Some of these are atheists who love their fellow human beings.

            So how is Satan controlling them when they seek to promote the well-being, not only of themselves but of others also?

          • Andres Desaya

            It is claimed that yoga is very effective in promoting inner peace. (unfortunately i have not tried, maybe i should). As a believer, anything that is good is from God.

            Again, not because one is an atheist makes him an evil person, I would imagine a lot of them has good hearts and do many good things to the community. The only thing they are missing is the joy in acknowledging and worshipping the Divine.

            Again, the basic principle of action speak louder that words. God might be appreciating more a good athiest who is helping a needy neighbour than a believer who profess to love God but so stingy to even give a dollar to a needy person.

            I would guess a lot of atheist don’t believe in the existence of God because of their nature of what is evident or not. If they are atheist because they way of “evidence” does not satisfy their standard of believing it does not mean they hate God… Satan cannot control these atheist if God gives them a good heart and uses them to do good things.
            Again, God claims…because of our frail human nature, He is a very forgiving and understanding God, full of love, mercy and grace….but also implements JUSTICE. We are warned not to deliberately follow evil.

          • Thanks Andres! You have a good heart!

          • But, Pud is smart. He’s a rational and scientific thinker. He let’s empirical evidence have its proper sway, does he not?

          • If God is all powerful, couldn’t he bring his will to pass? If he is all knowing he wouldn’t lack the knowledge to bring his will to pass? If he is everywhere present, he wouldn’t lack any ability to be at the right place to perform his will? If he is all good, then why isn’t his will brought to pass? If God lacking in something? Is it power? Is it knowledge? is it presence? Is it goodness?

            Why take more than 2000 years to bind Satan? Why take over 2000 years to come again? Is Jesus’ body still in the grave or did he rise again and what evidence to you offer for a resurrection?

          • who are Satan’s cohorts? How will God eliminate them? What real evidence do you have for Satan and God? Do Satan’s cohorts include demons? Do they include humans?

          • Andres Desaya

            You already know the answer. It is written…

          • DDRLSGC

            if that is the best answer, you can give, you are not very smart at all.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, I am not smart by myself, I rely on what I believe on what is revealed or written by God, that is when I become wise with the wisdom of the Almighty.

          • DDRLSGC

            The Bible was not written by God himself so again you are not smart nor wise. Wisdom of the Almighty? With all the problems that is happening on Earth, where is the wisdom of God?

          • Weren’t parts of the bible written by violent people? If you believe in God, he couldn’t be violent, if Jesus was the Prince of Peace. So do you think that bloodthirsty passages of the bible reflect the “wisdom of the Almighty”?

          • If Satan is one of God’s creatures, why would he want to eliminate him? Why not reform him?

            Why couldn’t Satan be “born anew”?

          • Andres Desaya

            Satan was the top arch angel, the highest of the high but was warned many times when his thoughts became focused on himself…the “I”, “I am higher than the most high….warned many times but instead convinced 1/3 of the angels….they left their creator…rebelled…given ultimatum, they refused..until now they rebelling against God..toying on humans….toyed on Madalyn O’Hair, maybe toying on PUD or you or me…we need to be focused on God…and goodness not rebellion, we have ultimatums too until our last breathes we are given a chance…lest we be like Satan and his 1/3 of God’s angels who followed him…
            God is good, Jesus has the redeeeming power if you believe…….

            It is an individual choice…I can not choose for anyone…anyone has to chooose…believe in God or Satan….Simple answer, just follow God..that is my choice!

            WHAT ABOUT YOU? Again it is an individual, personal issue…..What’s your choice…?

          • Why would I believe in Satan? He probably doesn’t exist though evil does exist but is performed by people. What people regard as being evil varies over time with the different social structures and different cultures of people. We don’t need a bogey man called Satan to follow. Just start practising peace and compassion to all you meet, then no bogey man will get you.

          • If God gave free will to both angels and humans, why couldn’t the angels that “sinned” be given the gospel and be “born again”?

    • Andres Desaya

      In due time God will ultimately use His Power. He will eliminate the devil and restore things. Even in human justice, a man meant to be executed has to use every means of legal procedures before his execution final and commenced.
      Just be patient…after the execution of Lucifer….we have all eternity to enjoy God’s love and presence in peace…(evil eliminated forever)

      • Will the “mythical” Lucifer be killed or burned in the Lake of Fire, forever?

        Of course, if God and Lucifer do not actually exist as beings, then none of them have any power. Wasn’t the devil an invention of humans used to demonize their opponents?

        • Andres Desaya

          Yes, Satan will be burned but not eternally. God is not that cruel, eliminate and just punishment of Satan and his angels is the main goal.

          It is just your invention that humans invented demons to demonized their opponents. You have seen a lot of disgusting evil crimes…those are not inventions….part of human tragedy when evil takes over humans.

          • Well, if God exists, as you say, he would not be that cruel to burn Satan in hell forever. If God exists, then isn’t he wonderfully kind? Isn’t he full of compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness? Doesn’t his loving-kindness overflow to all human beings? So God wouldn’t be that cruel to burn people in a Lake of Fire forever, would he? So doesn’t God’s love overflow Pud and isn’t it healing Pud, right now?

          • Andres Desaya

            Only humans that are so arrogant and threw away God’s Love will get what they chosed….God’s the Satan and his angels…humans too, the likes of Madalyn Ohair…(or PUD?)

            God’s Love or God’s wrath to evil and rebellion…
            I chose God’s Love….what about you? Some people chose rebellion…what about you, me, PUD? Let us CHOOSE! arrogantly or Wisely!

            Choose….the decision is yours? Satan and the 1/3 angels did also chose! The 2/3 of God’s now forever angels also chose…..What about you?

      • Didn’t Jesus abolish the death penalty philosophically (but of course, he had no power realise his position because he was a humble carpenter) when he forgave the woman caught in the act of adultery? Adultery was a criminal offence in Israel under the OT. So why would Jesus execute Lucifer?

        • Andres Desaya

          Because Lucifer hardened his heart to the fullest….even telling every human now not to believe in God,or that God is not good….Ultimatum was given, Lucifer and his cohorts angels fought back instead of repenting….they chose to rebel.

          We are to choose too…believe or not to believe, to mock or not to follow or not to follow….What is your choice….Only you can decide for yourself!

          Believe in God and you will be saved…(.or maybe do not believe?)
          I choose to believe. What about you?

      • DDRLSGC

        If God was powerful, he would have execute the Devil a long time ago.

        • Andres Desaya

          Again, read my answer above.

          • DDRLSGC

            Your anwer is no answer at all.

  • tovlogos

    Amen, Jack — this is why Jesus wants us to hate this world, i e its values, its desires,
    it’s corruption and hate, from heaven’s perspective, and for good reason, because it hates us and the One who keeps us.
    Notice that hasn’t changed a bit…this of course shouldn’t be a surprise, and for good reason, John 15:18-25.
    It makes perfect sense to hate this world because it is not only evil,
    it’s pleasure is temporary — something temporary against something eternal — the story of the flesh vs the Spirit..
    Nevertheless the devil has blinded the minds of those who believe not and thereby rests the labor of the
    Christ-Follower…taking up one’s cross is on the agenda without which we are not worthy of Him Matt. 10:38.
    He is not asking us to do anything He didn’t do — this command is perhaps the least of those
    that people even notice…Matthew 10:38; but perhaps the most important, which puts us squarely on the Narrow Path
    and takes us all the way to the Kingdom by grace through faith.
    Moreover, “He’s deceptive and crafty, and his messages do make you feel really good,” This one is also very important
    because the devil is transformed into an angel of light 2 Cor. 11:14 — and if one does not seek Jesus and therefore never in immersed
    into the Holy Spirit he can be easily fooled by the “feel good” counterfeit, never having the real thing it may be impossible to
    discern (distinguishing of spirits) (1 Cor 12:10) the difference!


    God must not be all powerful if he allows Satan to roam the Earth. He is also a lousy jail keeper if he can’t keep Satan lock up in Hell.

    • Andres Desaya

      God allows Satan to roam for awhile…to demonstrate his evilness, and not because He is not powerful. Be patient…for awhile. In His timing, He will demonstrate His Power, His Wrath and justice and punishment Satan deserves..

      God seems lenient but actually ruthless that He will eliminate Satan by locking and burning Him in hell until eliminated for good.

      God has two characters to offer for us…His Divine Love and eternal life of peace and perfection to those who accepts this beautiful offer…or His Wrath and thus eliminating those who rejects this offer.

      Our job is to choose! BELIEVE and Choose His offer my friend…

      Believe He is Just, Good, Powerful, Wonderful…dissuade yourself that He is not of these.

      CHOOSE! choose…, again I say Believe He is Good and choose Him…choose well my friend. Be good in choosing!

      It is your destiny…it is up to you, again it is yours to make your destiny… Choose well..Life or Death…His Love or His Wrath…. Choose Power and Love…but it is up all to you…a choice to make. What are you going to choose? Be nice to yourself…give yourself a chance.

      Choose welll, choose God..and He will bless you.. it is a matter of Choice! Personal Choice…


      • DDRLSGC

        “Be patient… for awhile?”Yeah sure, how long is awhile? And we humans don’t live beyond 100 years or more so how do you expect us to be patient?

        Why would God allow the Devil to roam the Earth for so long? Don’t you think that after 2,000 years that is long enough? Again, God must be a lousy jailer if he can’t keep the Devil lock up in Hades.

        Our job is to choose and believe? What kind of job is that?

        “It is your destiny” Oh really, I thought we had no destiny since God had a plan for us the day we were born. Have a destiny? Yeah, tell that to the babies that died at stillbirth, or seconds, minutes, hours, days, and months after they were born. What was their destiny? They sure as heck didn’t have an opportunity a say in whether they choose God or not

        • Andres Desaya

          All human complains against suffering in this earth are legitimate, yours, mine, Pastor Jack’s, the believers’, the atheists’…we groan under much stress, we are entiltled to verbalize that we don’t deserve this, no question about this…but God claims He understands…He knows…there is a reason. He experienced this too in the cross..

          He will eliminate evil in due time BUT before his elimination does Satan has something to say?…Did you know that Satan was able to take 1/3 of God’s angels in heaven? God cannot forcefully make His angels loyal to Him.

          Are there people who wants to follow Satan too?…Yes, as long as there are people who laughs at God, questions His integrity, His Power, His goodness etc, who denies even His existence, then Satan is fighting back..

          Look at PUD here…Satan says, “I have followers (how many PUDS are out there)..many more, I have the right to own them as they mock God…they are mine”

          But awhile of this, until this day, God is also still creating humans and a lot of them who choose to believe Him, worship Him…will be rewarded perfection and beautiful life for Eternity….

          Let us be loyal to God. “Let’s fight a good fight…and finish the race” 2 Timothy 4:7

          • DDRLSGC

            Sorry, putting people in suffering is not legitimate by any reasonable standards. God understands? He doesn’t understand because he was not on the cross. It has been 2,000 years that is long enough.

            Well, God always demand obedience from the humans and if they don’t, he kills them, so how can you say that we have a choice particularly when he gave us free will? That was a mistake on God’s part. If he wants obedience, then he should have never given us free choice.

            Pud is not a follower of Satan. He gives out good, rational, logic, common sense questions and answers that you can’t answer or refute.

          • Andres Desaya

            God’s standards are not human standards. As the Authority, he Has to use His own…angels and humans are His under Him. It is good He claims He is just and a good Being. But remember, as a creator, He is above anyone…including you and me.

            If you are not a vegetarian (and a carnivourous) then you would understand why animals are subjected to human authority. It is what it is.

            Your analogy is the way around, how can you demonstrate obedience when you do not have a choice? Humans, and you are a good example, you think, you decide, you have the capability not to believe, not to obey God.

            God does not want Robotsfollowers..God wants his subjects capable of being tested, tried, etc and passes the exams…and proven to be loyal.

            God has give everyone freedom to choose. PUD is an example…PUD right now demonstrating his free will..He is choosing to mock, kick, ridicule laugh at God and people who believes and follows God.

            PUD is given freedom to choose but also given the information that if he chooses not to follow God there are consequences…maybe PUD will end up beside Satan. That is part of the choice…. be blest or be cursed..Choose!

            But PUD chooses and continues to reject God as a good God, even questions His existence…what PUD is doing is his choice, personal choice, he is solely accountable for this decision He is making.

            God gave everyone this choice..God cannot force You and PUD to follow Him. (you believe PUD? he can not even find a job? you sound like him)

            DDRLSGC, you don’t need to tell me your choice,,make, it personal. Just tell it yourself.

            Choose well. Bye now! I have given you enough information.
            Bye now! Happy choosing! God bless….or God curse… Choose from the two.

            Jesus Christ our Great God and Saviour says ..”Choose Me…” and not Satan.

          • DDRLSGC

            Again Pud gave good logical, sound, common reasons and questions that you can’t refute or answer. Again, if God didn’t want us to question things and demand obedience to his authority, he shouldn’t have give us free will and thought. He surely did not learn his lesson from his dealing with the devil.

            If the animals could speak, they would tell us of what they think about humans ruling over them and killing them.

            “God does not want Robotsfollowers..God wants his subjects capable of being tested, tried, etc and passes the exams…and proven to be loyal.”

            You got proof of that? Gee, what if we flunked, do we take the exam again? Proven to be loyal? Gee, how many of us have proven our loyalty and we have not gotten anything out of it?

          • Andres Desaya

            PUD was a believer who turn sour because his expectation about God was not met. He has get over with…

            Again, digest and understand my points about choices…God is right in making choices available because there are humans that don’t like God no matter what.

            They just hate God for being God, they don’t want to acknowledge His authority…an example is ..Murray O’hair. Watch her as she speaks against God. Devious hater of God. You see….it is a matter of choice. Human has the choice and ability to throw away God and His goodness and love…

            “What is your choice….DDRLSGC..are you going to throw away God too?”

            It is a choice is it not? God is waiting, the devil is waiting for your answer. Make it a good choice! Bye for now…God loves you.

          • DDRLSGC

            What do you know about Pud? The answer is you don’t know him well enough.

            Again Pud gave good logical, sound, common reasons and questions that you can’t refute or answer. Again, if God didn’t want us to question things and demand obedience to his authority, he shouldn’t have give us free will and thought. He surely did not learn his lesson from his dealing with the devil and he surely make the mistake of giving us free will.

          • Andres Desaya

            We have to be careful against pointing a finger on God, remember Satan can be he was even to deceive 1/3 of God’s holy angels to go with Him.
            Even Adam and Eve, Satan deceive them…look at what happened to the whole humanity in a cursed state having been separated from God’s holiness.

            It is good Jesus Christ suffered in the cross and was able to redeeem humanity..but the choosing continues…
            Satan is still fighting back…claiming anyone who wants to rebel against God.

            (although Satan is manipulating PUD’s thoughts, I believe PUD will be okay, he is a good person deep inside….just became sour believer expressing his disappointments in this challenging earthly life…he is safe in the Lord Jesus amazing Grace..)

          • DDRLSGC

            You need to be careful about pointing fingers on someone and accuse them of being followers of Satan when you have no proof. Remember the witch burnings in Colonial America?

            God shouldn’t be punishing the whole human race for what Adam and Eve done. It likes a CEO blame the workers for the demise of the company when it was the CEO and his management that cause the company to failed.

            If Christ die on the cross for our sins, then there should be no more sin in the world. Again, if God was all powerful, the Devil would not be coming in and out of Hell, like it was a revolving door.

            None of us were asks if we wanted to be brought into the world and deal with an “challenging earthly life.”

          • Andres Desaya

            Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t remember accusing PUD as a “follower of satan”. I called him “sour believer, satan is behind or manipulating his thoughts…etc.”, but this descriptions has totally different meanings.

            Like I have before, humans groans, hurts, suffering, complains are all legitimate but we have to respect His authority over us. Jesus said “for awhile you suffer but great is our reward..which life everlasting in perfection…be strong, etc etc..”

            I agree on all your complains…but we are instructed “fight a good fight and finish the race…”

            World class athletes endures a lot in training in performing..a chamoion boxer takes a lot of punishment but continues on to win a should we. Be strong, you can graduate and pass the test..with God’s power! Come on! you have been given strength..use it! Be a Champion…!

          • DDRLSGC

            You have been accusing of Pud of being follower of Satan and you have no proof in whether Satan is manipulating him.

            When does the test ended and what if we flunk the test? Do we get to start all over again?

            Champion boxer can prepare all he/she wants but can still lose the fight.

          • Andres Desaya

            Again, I don’t remember calling PUD a follower of Satan.

            Mockery of God and denying His authority…is Satan’s. He likes to take over God…must be very persuasive and he was very succesful…1/3 of God’s angels he took, “wandering stars now”, used to be in God’s realm of perfection but they let themselves to be deceived by Satan, God’s topmost archangel.

            Be careful PUD, even if Satan was able to deceive 1/3 of God’s angels…don’t let him deceive you. Stand your ground PUD, stand in God’s ground, it is safe!

          • DDRLSGC

            You accuse Pud of being a follower of Satan. How is mocking God is being a follower of Satan? You have comedians like George Carlin and Bill Burr mocking God; however, it does not make them followers of Satan.

            If God gave us free thought/free will, then that was his mistake.

            You have not answer my question on when the test ends and what happens if we flunk.

            Again, if God was all powerful, he would have lock up Satan in Hades securely. Stand your ground? Yeah, and when there is an earthquake, you are on shaky ground

          • How is Satan manipulating Pud’s thoughts? I think that Pud is a rational thinker, so Satan couldn’t be manipulating him. Isn’t Satan a mythical being used to people to demonize their opponents? (See my link to Elaine Pagels article up above.)

          • Andres Desaya

            No, PUD knows Satan is manipulating him. PUD is aware…he is letting Satan do this to him…he used to be a believer, got disappointed by God and that is the reason he is saying these negative things about God instead of asking for strength to tackle earthly challenges.

            Be strong PUD!…stay in God’s realm, stay!

          • DDRLSGC

            Do you have proof that Satan is manipulating PUD?

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, absolutely, PUD’s cooments here of mockery of God…that is of Satan… very deceitful.

          • DDRLSGC

            You have no proof that Satan is actually manipulating PUD. Have you actually seen the devil in person manipulating someone? The answer is no.

          • Andres Desaya

            I have seen the results of Satan manioulating PUD….his mockery of God.

          • DDRLSGC

            You have not seen the Devil personally manipulating anyone.

          • Yes, but isn’t it false beliefs in god that Pud is mocking. Pud doesn’t believe that any gods exist and if he is right he has nothing to worry about. Maybe Pud considers all views of god are ridiculous and hence he mocks ridiculous views.

            If God exists, wouldn’t god want Pud to expose ridiculous views and isn’t such an exposure doing a service for the well-being of human beings?

          • Andres Desaya

            If PUD is mocking false gods then there is no problem. Praise God!

            Yes, God already did 2,000 years ago, and not only to PUD but to 3 billion human Christ followers called called christians. The difference is if you believe it or not….and that is an individual choice! I cannot choose for you, for PUD or for anyone for that matter…

          • Thanks for your response, Andres. praise God (if he exists) because Pud is mocking false ideas of God. Pud is mocking all ideas of God or gods because they are foolish. But if someone comes up with empirical and scientific evidence for God, then why wouldn’t Pud take this to be highly probable. But, so far, no-one has provided the evidence.

          • Maybe Pud is mocking all false gods?

          • But if Satan does not exist, how can he be manipulating Pud. If Satan does exist, how can he be manipulating Pud if Pud is able to outthink him with both scientific and rational thinking? He doesn’t choose to follow Satan, does he?

          • Andres Desaya

            It is a myth that not because you don’t believe in Satan that he can not manipulate you.
            Satan has many deceptive strategies to humans is not to believe in the existence of God and of course himself, or God exist but He is a no good God, a mockery of Him…PUD seems to have it all in here..and so maybe you too…be careful as Satan makes you feel smart but that is actually one of his manipulations…

          • But Pud has two degrees in science: one in geology and the other in biology. Satan doesn’t follow science, does he? I thought that you said that God is the greatest scientist, didn’t you?

          • The Greek word for the Devil is diabolos from which we get the word diabolical. Pud thinks rationally, so how can rational thinking be diabolical? Pud asks for evidence for the existence of invisible beings like Satan, demons, fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, and other so-called invisible entities like gods. How can asking for evidence be diabolical?

            Pud thinks scientifically? How can thinking scientifically be diabolical? How can asking for evidence and thinking scientifically like Pud does be committing grave evil like the diabolical one is supposed to do?

          • Andres Desaya

            Thinking scientifically is not diabolical, if ever PUD has scientific inclinations, that is of God. God is the greatest scientist…He created the earth, the moon, the stars, our known universe and the 100 million universes that scientist and humanity are still trying to grasp.
            God created atoms, our DNA’s, dinosaurs….”God created the heavens and the heavens of all heavens…the earth also and all that it is….” scientist are just trying to study and know what God created.

            What is sighted as diabolical to PUD is his negative comments against God, his seemingly constant mockery against God and His goodness, even His Authority, and PUD’s accepting the deception Satan did to 1/3 of the fallen angels.

            Satan the deceiver says “get away from God because that is freedom” but He does not tell that once we get out of God’s realm…Satan becomes now the controller! Wily he is..

            Will you let God control you…or let Satan control you? God gave us the freedom to choose…there is nothing in between. God blessings and offer of eternal life or Satan’s evilness, wilyness and damnation…

            Yes, we are given a choice but we are also warned of the consequences if we throw away God. God can not force Himself, either choose Him or Satan… Life or death?

            That is not hard of a decision to make is’nt it? Choose life..that is God’s love, it is a free offer.

            **Don’t be deceived by Satan of free thought…that is a lie. It is either the thought of God or the thought of Satan**

          • Pud has degrees in science including geology and biology. So if God is the greatest scientist, as you claim, are you really saying that Pud is a follower of God? So if Pud is following God, how can Satan be manipulating him?

          • Andres Desaya

            A scientist, a geologist, a biologist are decent professions who studies our physical environment, they don’t mock or ridicule God…….

            A far cry from your idol PUD who is a jobless sour believer who turned against God because his expectations were not met. Come on PUD shake it off! Don’t be sour, John Arthur is following your sourness!! Be a winner again…! Take God’s wisdom!

          • Pud is not sour, nor am I. As you say in one of your posts, deep down Pud has a good heart. You mistake his critique of ridiculous ideas about God for Pud mocking God. God, if he exists, would not want some of his followers to present ridiculous ideas about him, would he?

            Pud is a good hearted atheist. And you , as a generous person, recognize that. If God exists, then would not he, or she, be compassionate and kind, full of gracious and healing -mercy and would he, or she, not lift others up?

            Pud, by exposing false ideas of God, is doing important work for God’s kingdom (if God exists) and you should express your gratitude to Pud for this.

          • If Satan exists, doesn’t he invent myths? But Pud does not believe in any myths, so how can he be controlled by Satan?

          • Andres Desaya

            That is one of Satan’s manipulations…..that God and himself are myths. In believing that so…you will not be worshipping and loving God.

            Be careful, Satan is wily, deceptive and a liar….Satan makes you believe you are smart in not believing their existence.!

          • Even if Satan is not a myth and actually exists, are there not other myths that people believe that are in a book that was written by barbaric savages.

          • Andres Desaya

            The real Satan is not just what is written here or there, Satan is the entity that has power to make you rape, murder, brutalize, disrespectful to parents, authority…..makes you arrogant, makes you feel wise in your own thinking…..Makes you not believe in the exisrence of GOD, makes you doubt His goodness or even mocks Him…that is the real devil that we need to WATCH OUT!

          • Pud’s negative comments might seem to be against God, but can’t you see that his negative comments are against silly ideas that people put forth about God. Of course, if God doesn’t exist then how can Pud’s comments about a non-existent being be not truthful? If God exists, then maybe God wants Pud to expose the ridiculous and unworthy comments that some Fundamentalists make about God, does he not?

          • Pud is a champion of free thought, is he not? So how is freedom of thinking having one’s thoughts controlled by Satan? Isn’t it the church that is trying to control people’s thinking? If control of thinking is being manipulated by Satan, then isn’t it the church that is being so-manipulated? So can we conclude that the Church is controlled by Satan?

          • Andres Desaya

            No, he is not champion of free thought. As it may appear that he is, he is not, once we try free ourselves from God or honoring or worshipping God that is of the Devil’s thought.

            That was the deception of Satan to the 1/3 of the angels…He was able to convince these fallen angels that apart from God is freedom and happiness because they can now do whatever they wanted to do.

            They did not realize that Yes, they were out of God’s realm now but it is now Satan and his principle that is dictating them. Worse! look at what happened to them now, they are “wandering stars” following their new boss Satan dictating evilness to humans and coning PUD that of the same way.

            We believers believe that to be free is to be a part of God and His goodness, and life everlasting and perfection is being offered. There is no goodness apart from God.

            Now, we are given the choice, there is no in between..God and His goodness or Satan and his evilness…again Choose..

            All authentic churches teaches us to acknowledge, honor, worship and love God, that is the foremost commandment. If there are many weaknesses of churches…it is a matter of doctrine, principle or whatever you may call it.

            No one is perfect, but churches or religions whatever denominations are great tools of God in His being worshipped, proclaimed, honored and Loved…

          • yes, but Pud’s free thought is rational thought. Satan doesn’t think rationally, does he? So if Satan is not a rational thinker, how can he control Pud’s thoughts? Wouldn’t Pud be able to outthink him with clear and logical thought every time?

          • Andres Desaya

            It is your false belief that PUD’s thought is rational, “it appears or it may seem” but apart from God wisdom and thought are actualy foolishness. A free thought without Godliness or goodness could be breeding ground of Satan’s deceiving power, be careful.
            PUD can never outhink Satan outside of God’s realm. I hope and pray that Satan has not took over PUD fully yet. By the Grace of God, I believe God will not let Satan took over fully…PUD is just a sour believer…expressing his disgust over his disappointment, maybe deep inside PUD fears God…

          • Science is both rational and empirical? Pud supports science. So why isn’t he rational? Are you saying that science is not rational, and if God is the greatest scientist, are you saying that God is not rational?

          • Andres Desaya

            God is the creator of everyone and everything that exists, He claims He is perfect…it is (our) humans’ inability to grasp everything of Him that makes us think of Him lesser than He is.

            If you are a believer and believes that He is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and believes that we will be dwelling with Him for eternity then we will have eternity to know and learn how magnificent He claims to be as our creator and creator of everything.

            For now, we are mandated to Choose…to believe, trust and follow or NOT to BELIEVE and NOT to FOLLOW! The choice is ours…I already chose to believe.

            How about you? What will you choose? No one can choose for you, no one can force you. You have to choose yourself. Bye bye…Choose well.

            God bless!

          • Well I believe that we ought to love others and show compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness to those we meet on life’s journey. If God exists (I think it’s unlikely), then I believe that God is full of compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness. If God doesn’t exist, then I still want to show kindness to those I meet (though I often fail).

            I’m practising Yoga and a slow loving-kindness breath meditation pretty regularly and this is helping me to be kinder to others. You are kind-hearted Andres and may the force be with you.

          • Andres Desaya

            Actually, showing compassion, being kind and helping others even in the smallest way is a noble act in the sight of God. Three things happens when we do these things, the recepients of these acts felt loved and important, we ourselves feels good deep inside for being a part of goodness which is God’s character, and thus we feel satisfaction, and of course God is pleased for being able to show Himself in us.

            (The Dalai Lama once said, “my religion is showing kindness”, Again, in the christian religion, this is what Jesus Christ demonstrated while on this earth 2,000 years ago, His kindness, selflessness and sacrifice and His Love)

          • The Dalai Lama is a good guy much like the human Jesus who loved his enemies and told humans to love their enemies. The Dalai Lama is a proponent of peace and compassion much like the non miraculous human Jesus. You have a very kind heart, Andres.

          • Do you believe that a being exists just because a story books says he does?

            if a person is a good person deep inside as you claim, how can anything that is diabolical be manipulating his thoughts? So if Pud is a good person, deep inside, then how is Satan even able to manipulate him?

          • Andres Desaya

            Are you sure it is just a “story book”, speak only for yourself about that book if you think that way. Don’t be too arrogant to speak for the other billions.

            There is what we call the heart, “God sees the heart”, again PUD just got disappointed with God that is why Satan is able to manipulate his thoughts and comments here…
            but if Satan tells him to rape, murder or steal, PUD won’t comply…God being faithful, He is still with him.

            PUD still fears God deep inside…he is just airing his disgust and disappointment. But of course Satan wants to go further….be careful PUD! You don’t want to go there..!

          • If Pud is a good person, deep inside, then Satan isn’t controlling him is he? The Devil, or diabolos, is the diabolical one. How can Pud’s asking for evidence for the existence of Satan and God be diabolical?

          • If Pud was a believer and now you think that he is not a believer and Pud follows science, how is he now no longer a believer? Don’t you believe anymore that God is the greatest scientist?

          • Andres Desaya

            Again, see my answer to your previous questions, it covers this question. But yet again, God’s creation and science goes hand in hand. Science is just trying to accurately describe God’s creation or decipher how God created our physical environment and universe by its scientific nature.

            If PUD did not “got sour” and continued to trust God, and as the creator of the universe and the giver of wisdom and our lives…

            “then How Great and wise and magnificent our God is and deserve to be honored and worshipped..”. Then we catch a glimpse of Our Saviour God as a scientist.

          • But, if God is a scientist, as you claim, wouldn’t he want his followers to present evidence for his existence? Isn’t Pud being reasonable in asking for this evidence?

          • Pud chose science, so didn’t he choose God if ,as you say, God is the greatest scientist. Are you now saying that Pud did not choose God, because God is not a scientist?

          • Andres Desaya

            Again, being a scientist does not mean you are against God. And being against God means you are a scientist or scientifically inclined.

            Your philosophy is seemingly making you feel smart but actually it is a wrong analogy. Try not to go to irrelevant discussions, it will just make you appear “trying hard to be smart”. Be good, be intelligent.

          • If God is a scientist, as you claim, then wouldn’t he want his followers to present evidence for his existence? Won’t he be disappointed, if his followers can’t provide any evidence? After all, doesn’t the scientific method present evidence for and against its hypotheses? All Pud is asking for is empirical evidence, isn’t it?

          • How is Pud really following Satan, if Satan does not exist? Pud’s a rational and scientific thinker. Didn’t you claim that God is the greatest scientist, so isn’t Pud following God?

          • Andres Desaya

            PUD is being manipulated by Satan by mockery of God and not because of his inclination to science.
            Science in it’s physical form and its form of accuracy, and God’s creation comes hand in hand.

          • But maybe Pud is not mocking God, but silly ideas of God and gods. He asks for evidence that such invisible beings as God or gods, Satan, demons and angels exist? He doesn’t mean that quoting an ancient book is evidence. He wants actual evidence. So if God exists, how is he mocking God? Doesn’t God want silly ideas, that are unworthy of him, to be mocked?

      • But if God is a God of infinite compassion and mercy, how can he be angry (wrathful)? God doesn’t have a temper tantrum problem or anger management problem, does he? Isn’t he supposed to be perfect?

        • Andres Desaya

          No, God does not have tantrum problem and anger management problem. That is just your own description. A wrong description makes a false analogy….a wrongful accusation that seemingly make a human “appear smarter than The Perfect One”.

          A judge of court of law who gives a verdict to a man a death sentence does not have a
          a tantrum or anger management either.

          He claims He is just, merciful and offers amazing Grace. Unfortunately, many people mocks and still disregards Him.

          • God may not have a temper tantrum or anger management problem, but don’t some Fundamentalist Christians picture God as having such problems when they talk about him getting very angry?

  • phillip mutchell

    There is only One God Jehovah the Almighty, and it is this God who is said to blind the eyes of those Jews then who ‘having ears would not hear’. It is absurd to suggest that Paul would call Satan ho theos The God, he would as he has done simply in his other letters refer to him as Satan, it being a general descriptive of whatever agent is seeking to thwart God’s purpose and by know means a spiritual personality who apparently.

  • Dennis

    I disagree that “Satan is on a leash, or that the Devil is God’s Devil. Satan can only do as much as God allows, but even in Satan’s evil, God brings about much good.” Read this:

  • Wasn’t the concept of Satan invented to demonize one’s earthly opponents? (read Elaine Pagels: The Adversary: