When Theology Is So Pro-Israel That It Becomes Anti-Christian

When Theology Is So Pro-Israel That It Becomes Anti-Christian March 18, 2015


Christian culture sure does love talking about persecution, but there is one group of persecuted Christians that Evangelicalism doesn’t want you to know about: the persecuted Christians of Palestine. Dispensational theology that leads to the errant and blindly pro-Israel position (here’s why that’s unbiblical) has sadly led most of Evangelicalism to become so pro-Israel that it has become anti-Christian. While today they celebrate the re-election of a war hawk who has no interest in peace, justice, or law, today we grieve what undoubtedly means that the ongoing persecution of Christians at the hands of Israeli apartheid will now continue indefinitely.

When we say “Israel” or “Palestinian” one often thinks of Jew vs. Muslim. However, Palestinians include both Christians and Muslims, though Christians are the minority.  Like those who suffered under apartheid in South Africa, Christians and Muslims in Palestine both suffer under Israeli apartheid which strips them of their human rights, their dignity, their freedom of movement, their homes, and sometimes their lives.

Whereas in the West we often hear the phrase “Country _____ wants to wipe Israel off the map” the reality is that this is precisely what Israel is doing to Christians and Muslims in Palestine- wiping them off the map through confiscating their land, destroying their crops, looting and bulldozing their homes, shooting their children for sport (disturbing footage, here) and forcing them to emigrate elsewhere.

Christians in Palestine say they face an uphill battle to have their stories heard, as western media likes to portray their persecution as being at the hands of Muslims, but that’s not the case they say.

A few years ago Father Faysal Hijazeen, a priest in Palestine, wrote for the Jerusalem Post:

“These spokespeople have wrongly propagated a cynical discourse misleadingly touting “Christian persecution by Muslims.” Every Friday, we celebrate the holy mass attended by hundreds of Palestinian Christians from Bethlehem, Ramallah and Jerusalem in the Cremisan Area of Beit Jala. The holy service, celebrated among ancient olive trees, was not a prayer to end a “Muslim-led persecution” but to prevent Israel from confiscating this area of land that belongs to 58 Palestinian Christian families – Israel’s latest attempt to consolidate its ring of settlements that aim to sever Bethlehem from Jerusalem. This is one last attempt to prevent a land confiscation that would have catastrophic consequences for the local Christian population.”

Archbishop Sebastia Theodosios had a fantastic interview recently (the entire interview can be found here) where he said:

“The Palestinian issue is a problem that concerns all of us, Christians and Muslims alike. It’s a problem of every free intellectual individual aspiring for justice and freedom in this world.

We the Palestinian Christians suffer along with the rest of Palestinians from occupation and hardships of our economic situation. Muslims and Christians suffer equally, as there is no difference in suffering for any of us. We are all living in the same complicated circumstances, and overcoming the same difficulties.

As a church and as individuals we protect this people, and we hope a day will come when Palestinians get their freedom and dignity.”

In the interview, Archbishop Theodisios goes on to lament the oppression Christians suffer under the Israeli occupation, such as the destruction of Christian towns to drive the Christians out, Christian churches being attacked, Church property being looted/confiscated, and Christians being thrown into Israeli jails. He again summarizes their plight by saying:

“Christians suffer under the Israeli occupation just the same as Muslims – the entire Palestinian population suffers under it. They don’t distinguish between us.”

Other anti-Christian persecution at the hands of Israelis come by way of “price-tag” attacks. Price tag attacks were started in 2011 by Israeli settlers because the illegal expansions and land-grabs weren’t moving fast enough. These settlers began a movement to make Christians and Muslims suffer the “price” for expansion setbacks, with the hopes of terrorizing the Christians and Muslims into leaving. These attacks have included fire-bombing a monastery of nuns and spray painting “death to Gentiles on the walls,” or then there’s the Church of the Dormition which has been vandalized in price tag attacks– painted with such things as, “Jesus is a son of a bitch, price tag.” We also see arson used to terrorize, much like they used it in the American South, with one church having the door set on fire with the term “Jesus is a Money” painted on it.

Oh- and somewhere around 4.5 million Palestinians can’t vote- let’s not forget that.

Here’s the bottom line: Christians and Muslims are suffering and being oppressed under Israeli apartheid, and we should find this greatly distressing. 

If we were to take this scenario and have it take place in any country other than Israel, we’d see it completely differently. Were there a government systematically and illegally confiscating people’s homes, destroying Christian villages, making them refugees and then treating them like they’re illegal immigrants, tolerating a culture that persecutes and terrorizes Christians in an attempt to get them to flee their homeland– if that were happening anywhere other than Israel we’d not only be outraged, we’d be calling for ground troops and to have their leaders arrested. Apartheid was wrong in South Africa, but apparently it’s good in Israel.

Instead of being outraged, instead of demanding peace and justice, America sends Israel millions of dollars a day to finance their illegal oppression of Christians and Muslims- and not only do we support their actions, but much of the Christian community will quickly jump all over you if you so much as question it. Being a good Christian in too many parts means pledging allegiance to the United States of America and to Israel too.

Why? How did we get in this mess? Why are we tolerating an oppressive regime that we wouldn’t tolerate in any other part of the world?

Bad theology, that’s why. And that’s what makes this so tragic, but wonderfully illustrates the point that theology matters in the real world.

Dispensational theology took the world by storm in the late 1800’s, and the view that “Israel is God’s chosen nation” and the idea that anyone who doesn’t “bless Israel” will be cursed by God is core to that belief system. Dispensationalism overtook much of American Christianity and eventually bled into or government and foreign policy. Then, it somehow got taught to our grandparents, who taught it to our parents, who taught it to us.

And no one questions it.

Since so many accept it as true without researching it, without questioning it, without wrestling with it, we become blind to oppression around us. Left unchecked, pro-Israel theology can get so extreme that it actually becomes anti-Christian, because it quietly lulls one to support very real anti-Christian persecution at the hands of the Israeli government, without so much as even caring.

Here’s a good test: if your theology leads you to support and defend oppression and persecution instead of loving people, it’s bad theology.

My prayer is that American Christians will wake up to these tragic unintended consequences of this unquestioned, generational theology which is so pro-Israel that it actually becomes anti-Christian.

We need peace in the middle east. Peace for Israel. Freedom and restoration for Palestine. But we won’t have any of it until we start questioning the horrible dispensational/fundamentalist theology that’s causing us to support terror against our own Christian brothers and sisters.

Further reading: here’s a more in-depth breakdown of this area of theology and why it’s theologically flawed.



Top image via Tanya Nagar, Flickr

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  • chriscamsmith

    Thank you for this excellent and important article! God bless!

  • randalpeterson

    You are either very anti-Israel, ignorant, or both. The Christians in ” Palestine ‘ are being murdered and tortured by Muslim terrorists. Everyone in Israel has the same rights as the Jewish people. If you’ve been to Israel, you know that, but it obviously goes against your narrative. “If” you are a Christian, you know Jesus, the son of God is Jewish and that the Jewish people are God’s chosen people. You are the one with the false narrative and, obviously, an agenda. If I was guessing, between you being Christian or Muslim, the evidence would point to Muslim!

  • James

    Wonderful article. Unfortunately, many prefer to remain in ignorance, while tightly clinging to bad theology.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Benjamin for another amazing, biblically-grounded call for prioritizing Jesus above U.S. evangelical zionists and their destructive theology. Jesus and the Greatest Commandment will always be greater than evangelical desire for more war, death, and deadly occupation. And no amount of evangelical temper tantrums in your comments section will ever change this everlasting truth.

  • Artistree

    You are so wrong, randalpeterson. Just listen to the Christians in Palestine and hear how the Israelis persecute them. My extended family is from Palestine. They had their land stolen from them. One grandfather in-law tried to protect his land in Bethlehem in 1948 but the Zionist soldiers crushed his chest with the butts of their guns and murdered him. His wife and children fled barefoot to Jordan. Day by day the Palestinians loose their homes to Israeli settlements while they live as refugees cast away from their land.

    If you knew your Bible better and the words of St. Paul, you would know that the Church is the True Israel and that the Zionists there now in “the land” are not Israel but Hagar and an anti-christ nation.

  • randalpeterson

    The disciples were sent by Christ to witness first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Saul was Jewish and became a Christian on the road to Damascus when Christ appeared in a great light and knocked him from his mount. Before that he imprisoned and killed Christian Jews. After this he became Paul. He brought the gospel to the Gentiles. Gentiles became part of the chosen after many Jewish people failed to accept Jesus as the messiah. There are no “Palistinians”. They are those who have been run out of their own countries. Israel would accept them on peaceful terms, but Hezbollah and other terrorists continue to fire at the Israelis from the territory and hide behind women and children there. My bible is the same as yours, unless yours has been written by someone other than God. Israel was given their small piece of land by the United Nations. Any land that was added to it was because they were attacked and defended themselves. Again, I reiterate, Israel is the only country in the Middle East where people of any religion can walk freely and unharmed.

  • nabil89

    Thank you Benjamin. I am a Lebanese Christian with Palestinian grandparents on both sides. Please keep speaking up against the horrible injustice being committed everyday in Palestine :)

  • Bashir Abueid

    I come from the town of Beit Jala, mentioned I your article. I am a Palestinian Christian and the truth is, we have been wondering for decades, how could any Christian, American or not, support this brutal occupation force called Israel. Thank you for this article, and God Bless.

  • Bashir Abueid

    This is absolute nonsense, and rude too! I am a Christian Palestinian and I tell you: these allegations about Christians being tortured and killed by Muslims in Palestine is an illusion. We have lived together for ages. In my classroom both at school and university, and later on at work, there were both Christians and Muslims. The only thing we fear is the Israeli Occupation Forces. My Church was shelled in 2001 by the Israeli army, and my 17 year old cousin (a Christian too!) was shot and killed in his own home by the Israeli army in front of his little brother. Our family land was confiscated to build jews-only roads connecting illegal jews-only settlements.
    And by the way, never do we read in the Gospels that Jesus called Himself the son of Judah, or the son of David. He, however, always called Himself the Son of Man. He incarnated for our salvation and embraced the whole humanity. He became a perfect man, not a perfect Jew. He is the Son of God, and the Son of man to save us all, not to prefer one people over another, let a lone, a people that rejected Him as the Messiah and the Son of God, and tried to kill Him and suppress His message of love and salvation to the world. But He rose from His grave and brought all the world great ercy and salvation, not occupation.

  • Charles

    Shotguns are terrible sniper weapons. Why have you identified all Evangelicals as Dispensationalists? I consider myself an Evangelical Christian with a post millennial preterist view. Are you trying to persuade people or just make noise?

  • Deb. Thurston OCDS

    Brother randalpeterson, I’m uncertain how you have obtained your knowledge that “Israel is the only country in the Middle East where people of any religion can walk freely and unharmed,” but you are sadly mistaken. It is obvious to me that you have not gained this knowledge by personal experience. My experience as an American citizen, a Christian who spent three years in peaceful Haifa, Israel differs greatly from what you have to say. I was verbally abused on the street by Jews, even spat upon. To the contrary, Muslims treated me with great respect and even compassion. Our property was vandalized by Jews, and Muslims volunteered to help us clean it up. “People of any religion can walk freely and unharmed,” you say? It was obvious to everyone that I was a Christian: I was a Catholic nun dressed in a full habit and veil. Brother, how can you say that spitting on a nun as she’s walking down the sidewalk is a shining example of “free and unharmed”? Today, this abuse – and worse – happens to Christians who venture too close to observant Jews in the Old City.

  • Matthew

    While I can support much of what is being said in this article, and while I have problems with both dispensational theology and Christian Zionism, I´m not sure I agree with comparing Israel to South Africa´s former apartheid state. Would people of color in South Africa have been included in it´s parliament like Israeli Arabs are in the Knesset?

    As always, I am attempting to find a balanced third way between two extremes. Can the Jewish people and the Palestinian people (both Christian and Muslim) live in peace in a land they both claim belongs to them? I suppose this is the $64,000.00 question.

  • I am so sorry this is not spoken out against more loudly. Thank you Benjamin for writing this and to the commenters that have shared their stories.

  • James

    Superb article Benjamin! The outright racism towards arabs and the uncritically pro-Bibi fascism that I encountered in my old evangelical church is a major reason I stopped attending. Evangelicals have tethered their moral credibility to an apartheid state that isn’t very Jewish and has no interest in peace.

  • Jordan

    Another part of the problem is the conflation of a people with the state that rules them. Such a conflation convinces Zionists that by defending the state of Israel, they are defending the Jewish people. I don’t think Zionists are doing the Jewish people any favors by defending the state of Israel. People matter, states… not so much.

  • Stevecorbin

    Let us hope that ignorance, even out of good intentions, is forgivable. As Christians, we are taught to believe that all sins are forgivable by God. But, how about willful ignorance by intelligent people with access to truth and fact? Your statement about rights for non-Jewish Israelis is flat wrong. And, if extended to Palestinians, not in Israel proper, of course would be pure fiction. Detailed knowledge of what apartheid was like in South Africa set alongside detailed knowledge of what is going on in Israeli-occupied Palestine would lead to an obvious conclusion of close similarity. Both situations are reprehensible from a human rights and Christian justice perspective. There are two basic traps as one tries to sort things out in the Palestinian situation. First, if one starts with an ideology, regardless of its basis, and then proceeds to select facts, or even non-factual beliefs, to support it, while excluding other relevant situations, the trap is deadly. Then, if one adopts the posture that by citing incidents of violence by some element of the Palestinian cause as a basis for “conviction” of all Palestinian people, the trap is inescapable. If we allow the endless argument of who hit who first to be the iron door to block peace and justice, then shame on us.

    I fear that the government of Israel has now moved to a position where the elimination of Palestinians by whatever means is the only practical course that they will see. Does this sound familiar? Turning all of the instrumentalities of a government entity against an ethically defined group.

  • Will David

    Great Article..

  • I’m a non-dispensationalist evangelical too, and to be fair, I didn’t feel that this article was tarring me with the same brush. I’ve been an evangelical with NO particular ‘end times interpretation’ since the day I ‘got saved’ but I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of evangelicals blindly follow this teaching, and certainly most pulpits preach it!

  • ER

    Thank you for this! Amen, amen, and amen! I am an American Christian living in Jerusalem and I am continually baffled by the bad theology US churches preach regarding Palestine and Israel.

  • You can reiterate something, but that does not make it true. I personally have walked in Jordan and Israel, and of the two, only one had “people of any religion [walking] freely and unharmed,” and it was not Israel.

  • Part of the problem, as I see it, is that many people have difficulty separating the modern state of Israel from the Biblical nation it is named after. If God promised this land to Israel, then surely we have to support it, right? Even though God claims responsibility for taking the land back away from Israel when they ceased following God’s commands, and even though the modern state likewise seems to have ceased following God’s commands.

    And as Jordan so eloquently said, there’s also the problem of conflating the people with the state. We’ve set up a narrative where anyone who criticizes Israel must be anti-Semitic; there is no other alternative. (We also do this to some extent with other nations; any American who criticizes what the USA does is at best unpatriotic).

  • Matthew

    The Jewish people also have their arguments. I find a “stand against them” policy to be rather unhelpful.

  • Kerry Thomas

    My evangelical wife and I had a disagreement on this two nights ago. I do not understand how American Christians can be so much against Palestinian Christians, just because they are Palestianian.
    It makes me wonder if these same evangelicals would support Israel with the same blindness as if Israel turned against an American Christian group, say the American Baptist denomination?
    Sadly, you know the answer would be …” yes. ”

  • JJ

    thank you for the article. I have worshiped at the holy mass on Friday afternoon in the Cremisan while I lived in Beit Jala.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    I get so tired of that drum too. They need Christ and are lost without Him. Lots of theology but no time now.

  • Health


  • Paul Julian Gould

    I also have seen the latter problem… Hey, Palestinian Arabs are Semitic as well, regardless of religious faith… many with more recent as well as more historic link to the real estate than many of the Ashkenazi immigrants…

    Interesting vignette I’ve related elsewhere… The weekend after 9/11/01, we were out to dinner with my folks. Now, Grandfather was from Galicia, during one of the periods the dividing line made it Poland, rather than the Ukraine. Grandfather looked very European, which, no doubt, came in rather handy defusing perceptions during his tenures as an officer in his Masonic Lodge in Nebraska.

    Now Nana? Oh, my… I have a photo of the dear wise lady, may she be at peace, taken in 1908, at the tender of 19, sent to an unknown cousin named “Bertie.” She could be taken from the lace collar and formal dress and put in the uniform of a lieutenant of the IDF, indigenous to the land, and not be out of place in the least… all 4 foot 9 of her…

    My Pop got more dirty looks from folks at the steakhouse, and he and Yassir Arafat could be close cousins, rather than the very distant cousinhood of native Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians….

    Yet Pop was Jewish…

    Pop also considered it a supreme insult to think him any sort of Zionist… Pop supported treating people decently, apart from political or religious differences.

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Tends to be based in a ‘theology’ of “well, even if it ain’t true, and even if it really ain’t like that, it oughta be.”

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Hmmm… rather like most of Ben’s blog posts, I’d say this falls under the category of “Then he’s not talking about you, is he?”


  • Paul Julian Gould

    I don’t know if it’s supreme irony, or just a weird aside, but there’s something that really gets shoved under the rug in Israeli Jewish circles… There’s a social service foundation there, of Israelis, by Israelis called, I believe, the Yonatan Institute. So-named after a certain young ‘Messianic’ Jewish gentleman who died a true hero at the raid on Entebbe… a man of deep Jewish heritage who found expression in Y’shua. That last part is what gets buried and ignored, because… but it does get buried and ignored nonetheless.

    Yonatan’s surname? Netanyahu… His father? Uber warhawk Bibi Netanyahu.

    Go figure…

    “And that’s the rest of the story”
    — Paul Harvey

  • John Airey

    I watched that footage – it isn’t clear whether that’s children being shot at or whether they are engaged in any kind of combat operation. Israel despite its problems is still the only democracy in the Middle East – furthermore there is a significant Jewish population in the US and if you were to disenfranchise them you just wouldn’t get elected. So it’s no surprise that America defends Israel. Also remember that God promised to bring them back to the land after generations and the Jewish people are still part of God’s plan of salvation. Something that Martin Luther couldn’t grasp and died within a week of preaching the foulest sermon against Jews (later used to justify the Holocaust).

  • John Airey

    I think you’ll find that Yonatan was actually the older brother of Benjamin Netanyahu – what else have you got wrong?

  • lambert darcy

    We hear the phrase “Country _______wants to wipe Israel off the map” and it carries meaning because so many countries have, in fact, tried to wipe Israel off the map with some regularity in history. I tend to be pro-Israel for reasons that have little to do with theology.

    Israelis also deserve to live in peace. Unfortunately, there are already some blatant Jew-hating comments on this blog. Jew-hatred has been a very real, and dangerous aspect of life for Jews, and the government of Israel is fighting for the ability of Jews to have a place in the world where they aren’t governed by the will of others. One place.

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Although I wonder why you found it necessary to snark at me, I thank you for the correction. I’ve thereby learned something today, and have gained a correction for one of my own perceptions. I also that you for that, and that truly and sincerely, whatever you may think of me.

    The rest of the story stands, relationship notwithstanding.

  • Rula Khoury Borelli

    Well said! I hope that you will allow me to use this testimony of yours online to share with others?

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Oh, and what else have I got wrong? Well, with 58 years vertical, probably plenty.

    Kinda goes with the territory, being human and all.

  • randalpeterson

    My reply would be that I would prefer being spat upon to having my head cut off. My brother, who is a Methodist minister and a Christian went to Israel and was treated very well. No spitting. I have however seen people spit upon in the U.S. If I were you, I would not get close to observant Jews, sister Deb. Thurston. I know several people besides my brother who have been there and no spitting.

  • It’s not only common, but something Christians have begged to have addressed: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

    Please, just stop trying to defend a racist theology and the company line we were fed (I was there once too) and listen to the real stories. Listen long enough and you’ll see they don’t line up with the narrative we were fed when we were taught to follow the teachings of Darby.

  • And another part of the problem, which seems to be showing up here in these comments, is that people who legitimately criticize the overreach of the modern state of Israel wind up getting “support” from blatant anti-Semites, so that one has to defend one’s self from two directions at once.

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Indeed… I’ve seen that, too… and I wonder how my beloved late Pop would be treated, as he was quite outspoken in his disapproval of Israeli policies… and, again, he was Jewish. Probably be called a “self-hating Jew.”

  • SCS

    The real descendants of the old Jews are today’s Palestinians.

  • Jackrich Taylor

    Will you describe it for us?

  • Jackrich Taylor

    You tell a wonderful story.

  • Exactly. Part of my lament is when I write about the oppression of Palestine, anti-Israel folks jump in, and I’m not not anti anyone but pro-everyone.

  • Jackrich Taylor

    Friend, would it surprise you the bad Theology we’re taught here in general? God be before you, all we have these days is the true convictions in our hearts to lead us on.

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Thank you, whether or not that was sincere… I’m a writer by nature, and tend to give any personal experiences, if such exist, as a way of realizing that I get the point of the OP, or a commenter to whom I’m replying.

    It’s just how I think, and how I express myself. But, while I may occasionally get a relatively unimportant detail askew, if it didn’t happen, I don’t pretend to present that it did… It’s akin to my personal policy of making it understood by fellow vets, whether VN, Desert Storm 1 or 2 or Afghanistan, that while I am a Vietnam era vet, having joined in the interregnum between stopping sending further troops in Aug. ’74 and the fall of Saigon, May ’75, I have never served in hot, active combat, and never want to present that I have.

    Also, there are just times that I just keep typing as the memories flow… good think I’m a fast typist, as verbose as I usually am… *lol*

  • jaunita

    Excellent message. I actually felt myself tearing up while reading it. For years, at my blog I have been warning of this very thing. Thank you for letting me know others recognize this dangerous position the Church here in the West is in today. It’s long past time to make a choice: Do we stand with and for the Son of David or follow after the Star of David? We cannot do both.

  • Matthew

    The same can be said about how groups like Hamas view the Jewish people. It´s a game of ping-pong really. There has to be another way.

  • Charles

    Now, if he would have said Fundamentalists (which I think he is confusing Evangelicals with) I’d be in agreement but the Evangelical’s Venn circle encompasses so many different theologies and denominations that to blame the movement for Dispensational Zionism is like blaming George Washington for George W. Bush’s policies. I think Corey is ignorant and –therefore bias– of Evangelicalism

  • Bashir Abueid

    Of course, share it Rula. In fact, please do share it and I’m willing to tell you the story of our suffering with the Israeli Occupation in our town Beit Jala.

  • Deb. Thurston OCDS

    Thanks for mentioning Cremisan, JJ. The Salesian Fathers and Nuns are still at risk of losing an enormous amount of property in the eminent domain action (a.k.a. land grab) whereby the government will destroy the commercial vineyard, separate the Father’s monastery from the Nun’s convent property, and surround the convent with prison-style security fence, all as part of the extension of the security wall through the Cremisan Valley. The Supreme Court told the IDF to come up with an alternate route, and they still haven’t found a workable solution. US and UK ambassadors have been out to survey the property recently, among others. Let us continue to pray and fast for justice and peace!

  • Kevin Morrow

    Jennifer, Judaism is not an evil religion, and when you say that, you just give ammunition to those who accuse opponents of the Israeli occupation as “anti-semitic.” No Judaism is not an evil religion, and not even all Israelis are evil. What IS true is that those who run that country currently certainly behave evilly.

  • Kevin Morrow

    No, sorry, incidents of Muslim on Christian violence in Palestine is actually very rare. Not nonexistent, but very rare. You are badly misinformed.

  • Kevin Morrow

    Actually, while Jordan is not perfect by any means, I would tend to agree with you that there’s more religious freedom in Jordan than Israel. One telling sign: a lot of Christian organizations have set up training centers and schools in Amman. In Israel, it’s theoretically against the law for non-Jews to proselytize Jews, and messianic Jews at least occasionally suffer discrimination, and sometimes their churches are vandalized.

  • You should consider throwing a disclaimer in there about that. It sounds silly, but I decided not to share this because I don’t feel like defending myself from those accusations.

    Then again, I’m pretty sure that the people who make those accusations only read the title of an article before commenting…

  • donna

    I would like to comment on your blog. Biblical history is very important. Israel was given its borders by God.
    The restoration of Israel in 1948, was by the hand of God. There is no occupation. It became Palestine, because: Great Britain named it that.. The residing “Palestinians” are actually, “ARABS”… They were offered a portion of that land, at the time of Israel’s RESTORATION. They refused it. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A NATION OR STATE CALLED PALASTINE. THERE IS NO RECORD OF SUCH A NATION, ITS HISTORY, ITS PEOPLE, KNOWN BORDERS, CAPITAL,ECONOMY, LEADERS OR OTHER TRACE…. Even the name “Palestinians” is very misleading. It is at best a convenient designation put on an ARAB group by Israel’s ENEMIES dedicated to her destruction…These “Palestinians are Arabs, either expelled from, or turned away by their fellow Arabs in the nations surrounding Israel . These people were not wanted by their own people… (whatever the reason). It is documented that Arab leaders saw in this group a means toward ISRAEL’S full destruction. That may sound harsh to people, who are not familiar with this region’s history. But, the undisclosed motivation behind the stringent call for such a “Palestinian” state, is purely to place Israel’s enemies next to her as a terror force that will battle and annihilate her people WE MUST REMEMBER THAT THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY HAS MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THEY ONLY WANT ONE STATE—NOT TWO—–PALASTINE WITHOUT ISRAEL! PA leader Mahmoud Abbas, touted as a ‘moderate’, is the darling of Israel haters. But, he shed his sheep clothing in a recent speech at the UN, when referring to Israel repeatedly as the “racist occupying state”. With a number of nations recognizing this non-existent state falsely named “Palestine”, and pressuring Israel to give into genocidal proposals, let everyone of Israel’s true friends stand in unbreakable prayer and solidarity with her!

  • Yep, and to be perfectly honest, something tells me that even if the disclaimer were in the title, it would be ignored or misconstrued by people wanting this article to be anti-Semitic (whether because they want to discount it or because they want it to support them). Articles like this one walk that idiomatic knife’s edge, with fire on the one side and vipers on the other.

  • Terri Knoll

    Actually if you really research, all those supposed countries that tried to wipe Israel off the map never happened. Israel was the aggressor in all instances. I highly recommend The General’s Son by Miko Peled. His father was the general in the IDF that recommended Israel’s wars until repenting and becoming a peace activist.

  • Terri Knoll

    Equal rights for ALL people is a democracy. Israel is an apartheid state.

  • Terri Knoll

    The Palestinians are more Semitic than any Jew in Israel. So since the Palestinians are being so persecuted by Israel, would that make Israel anti-Semitic? ps many Jews support Palestinian rights around the world. They are called “self hating”. I wish we could move past all labels except for “human rights” activists.

  • Renee Weinberger

    There’s a made up false dichotomy. They’re genetically the same people! They are derived from the same tribes. There is countless data to prove this. If one is the, “chosen people,” (bah!!!!) then they ALL ARE!!


  • Terri Knoll

    I know there are maybe a handful of anti-Israel people, but I am involved in this topic every day for hours and I find what most people think of as anti-Israel people are people that want equal rights for ALL people in Israel. Call the stupid country what you want, but give equal rights to ALL. A one state solution with right of return, removing all walls, and compensation for those that were displaced. Back to living side by side (all 3 faiths) like it was before all this mess started.

  • Terri Knoll

    A “Jewish State” is apartheid and will not be tolerated. This “Israel” is not the Zion of the Bible.

  • Shane McCausland

    All these pro Israel christian’s confuse me. Its like they are missing an important message of the gospel. You know the part that says Jesus is the truth, life, and the only way into heaven?

    I pray for Christians in both Palestine and Israel, and I pray, both muslims and jews in Palestine and Israel, that they repent and come to Jesus. I do not support non christian Israeli government.

  • Why ignore the plain truth that it has also been MUSLIMS who have screamed that the Palestinian issue is PURELY about Muslims vs. Jews? Palestinian Christians have been nothing to either side, except if either side decides they’re useful.

  • jontrott

    Thank you for attempting reason in one of Evangelicalism’s least reasonable arenas. While reading the responses to your article I also note the tone of unreasonableness framed in the usual manner from the right (“God gave this land to Israel”) vs at least one on the so-far-left-it-became-far-right (invoking “bowing to the Jewish Temple Priests”).

    Facts are good. The borders of Israel have never been set in stone. Ever. Not in the Bible, not in modern history. The Middle East’s current troubles are undeniably linked to Western Imperialism, primarily the Brits (as much as I love ’em, bein’ my ancestors and all).

    Making a theological apologetic for a modern day Israel being “of God” is extremely dubious from a *conservative* interpretation of Scripture. Add in the New Testament focus on our pilgrimage here vs God’s Kingdom being for all peoples, and the Zionist is left with no Christian theology to back his/her claims.

    Let’s balance this with what led up to the modern establishment of Israel. A virulent and vicious anti-Semitism streaks western / European history with blood, from the pogroms of Russia to the “blood libel” myths perpetrated by Henry Ford, among others. And Hitler, of course, who did not arise in a vacuum but rather as the result of this satanic Anti-Semitic virus in the western bloodstream. And yes, bad theology put that virus there! Bad *Christian* theology!

    To simply change the furniture by becoming (in our own minds) the “defenders of Jews” by fiercely defending the state of Israel, simultaneously finding a *new* group to blood libel in the process, is to monumentally fail the lesson of history. THERE IS NO “BAD” GUY OTHER…. there’s only broken humanity. All of us. For whom Jesus died. Making a nation-state into a God (as we’ve done with both our own nation and the nation of Israel, actually conflating them with the *people* of biblical Israel in the process) helps no one. And defames God.

  • Fantastic response! Though I fear that, now that you’re here, you’ll find yourself getting some less-than-friendly responses.

  • jontrott

    Oh, I’m used to it. A theological moderate/conservative, but political liberal/progressive, I often seem out of step with everyone. Maybe because I have the gift of annoyance. Heh.

  • sketchesbyboze

    None of the major religions are completely evil, and certainly not Judaism.

  • Angelfire4280

    You don’t speak for any Christians (Romans 10:9,10).
    Sorry, Inclusionism/Universalism/whatever your current iteration, is not Christianity. Nice try, though.

    Your man-made theology fits eerily well with the failed 19th Century political ideology, currently labeled “Progressivism” though. Hmmm, could that be purposeful? Why, of course, it is!

  • Romans 10:9-10? “If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”? That’s the passage you’re going to throw out while claiming that somebody else isn’t Christian?

  • Robertapate

    You ARE absolutely 100% correct my dear! It is refreshing to know that “others” know. Peace.

  • Robertapate

    yeah, “THEY” duh!

  • I had to deduct two letter grades from this answer since (a) I am a Christian (b) I’m not a Universalist and (c) your comment has absolutely nothing to do with this post.

  • Robertapate

    Sadly, “they” already have been trying very hard, to turn our Christians against the teachings and values of our Jesus Christ in the NT. Look at the “division” in this country with the Zionist Christians; your own marriage stands as an example. Very worrisome. .. Blessed are the Peacemakers.

  • Nick

    Especially since Mr. Corey is constantly pointing to Jesus as Lord.

  • And also since Ben is very much not a Universalist, as Angelfire would know if they’d read almost anything else Ben’s written.

  • Charles

    Obviously, the mainline leftist Christians are so mis-educated that they land blast Evangelicalism as the culprit of Dispensational Zionism. Have you ever heard of Fundamentalism? Fundamentalism is the animal you should be hunting. Fundamentalism maybe within the Evangelical Venn circle but it is not equated with Evangelicalism. Once again there is no intention for the left to bridge the gap between the right. There is no love, only banging cymbals.

    Evangelicalism predates Dispensationalism and Fundamentalism by a couple of centuries. The movement holds that the bible is the final authority as opposed to church clergy and that the scripture is inerrant. Fundamentalists hold that scripture is infallible ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy ). Fundamentalists read the bible in a wooden literal manner unless it fits their worldview. So while Jerry Falwell is a Fundamentalist, Charles Spurgeon is an Evangelical.

    Evangelicals take seriously the Great Commission, thus the name, “Evangelicalism.”

  • pablo paz

    Not only can worship of the Jewish State lead Evangelicals and Fundamentalists to bad theology. It can lead to bad Jewish Theology as well: the Zionist government breaks Jewish Torah hundreds of ways before breakfast. One thing Christians and Jews are supposed to agree on (and Muslims too): Thou shalt have no other gods… And yet it is so easy to idolatrize human governments and inhumane policies. A state where 4.5 million are deprived of their vote… a state where homes are demolished and children shot… a state totally dependent on the largest US foreign aid expenditure every year… to kill Christians, AND Muslims. Is this really WWJD?

  • Kathy K-m

    Let’s be honest, shall we? Most of suffer from “Holocaust guilt”, and, of course, nobody ever wants to see that happen, ever again. Israel has played this card, very, very well, and anyone who takes an anti-Zionist position is labeled anti-Semitic.
    Israel has also only been around since 1948, and it used to be the little-nation-that-could. Everyone thought this whole Palestinian thing would be resolved, any day now.
    Israel got our support and love.
    But, slowly but surely, it went rogue. From developing nuclear weapons, in secret from it’s allies, to “hit squads”, first for Nazi’s (who could blame em?) then to the Munich terrorists, now it’s on anybody they consider a “potential terrorist”, no due process required. (but often a great deal of illegality)
    And still, the Palestinian question is not resolved, and it’s getting worse.
    But, we are so used to blindly supporting Israel, no questions asked, and, since 9/11, hating Islam, it’s become part of the landscape.
    Fortunately, I see the demographics of younger people questioning this is rising. Perhaps their only experience of the Holocaust is “Diary of Ann Frank”, so they don’t understand it the same way as previous generations. And that can only be a good thing because this is a HUMAN right issue. Not Christian, Muslim or Jew.

  • Kathy K-m

    I have never heard a Muslim describe it that way. It has always been Israel vs Palestine, and that included their Christians. Perhaps you might provide an impartial link to this “plain truth”?

  • Kathy K-m

    Oh good grief. You expect a CHRISTIAN government in Israel? You’d be smarter to expect a Christian government in Rome or Greece, since that’s who got the whole Christianity thing kickstarted.
    The pro-Israel Christians are often the “end times” ones. They are dying for the rapture to happen, but that means Israel must be a nation again (done), the temple must be rebuilt (that means destroying the “dome of the rock”, but who cares, right?) Then, yippee…the horsemen will arrive and all the people they don’t like will be tossed into a lake of fire, which, ironically, will include the Jesus-rejecting Jews.

  • John Airey

    Completely agree – “Palestinians” as such are being used as pawns in a battle to destroy Israel as a nation.

  • Helpful hint: if you’re going to put a link in parentheses, you’ll want to put a space between the link and the closing parenthesis, otherwise the commenting system will try to include the parenthesis in the URL, which creates a link that doesn’t work.

  • David S

    Great piece, Ben. That took courage.

  • Noah

    Who do you speak for?

  • Noah

    I wonder what non-man-made theology they follow.

  • Charles

    Thanks. Not that it matter much. It seems that I go by old definitions.

  • Wayne Hicks

    To say that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel is from the hand of God is to differ greatly with Jews who were involved in the process.
    Orthodox Jews threatened to remove their support for the formation of the country because they believed it to be a product of human engineering, not God. One of the concessions from the political leaders to to gain the support of the Orthodox was to exclude them from compulsory military service and some taxation. This is still a sticking point among some that there are those who benefit from an Israeli state while contributing little, if any, to its defense and political/financial structure.

  • LogicusPrime

    When you say, “restoration for Palestine”, (1) which meaning of Palestine are you talking about, and (2) what do you mean by restoration? It’s all rather vague. I can easily imagine people agreeing with you with one meaning of those words and the same people disagreeing with you with another meaning.

  • Cheerytoes

    I would like to have a link to this speech you mention – I can find nothing of it.

  • Pyhä Maa

    Question to Benjamin: Would it be ok to translate this article for Pyhä Maa website? http://www.pyhamaa.net (naturally with full reference and linking to the original)?

  • mjazzguitar

    That has to do with the “dry bones” vision of Ezekiel- Israel’s existence from the ’40s through the ’90s with the Dry Bones
    vision. Ezekiel pictures a step-by-step process, starting with the Jews coming back to their land and slowly becoming more spiritual until finally, the Kingdom would come and “The King will rule over them.”

  • mjazzguitar

    Christian populations diminish under palestinian rule and increase under Israeli governance. You fail to mention how the muslim palestinians treat the Christians:

  • mjazzguitar

    The arabs called palestinians arrived in the land the Romans renamed “Palestina” in the seventh century AD.

  • mjazzguitar

    I agree, but the people here seem to have fallen into the misconception of Israelis= oppressors, palestinians= victims.
    They ignore the 15000 rockets fired on Israeli citizens from Gaza after Israel relinquished all claims to the territory,and the arab’s refusal to even negotiate a peace deal.

  • George

    Netanyahu is not a war hawk bent on the destruction of Christians and Muslims in Palestine. Nobody desire peace more them him in the middle east. But He will not tolerate (and I would want no other stance for a leader of my country) the Palestinians trying to destroy his country. he has NEVER started a or picked a fight with the Palestinians. He has only finished them. The Palestinians could stop the death in their country right this minute if they would only stop using their children for human shields and stop putting that rockets in hospitals (which is against international law and the Geneva convention. I could go on. Before you start getting all self righteous and claim being pro-Israel is wrong, learn the facts! It is not unbiblical to take a stance with Israel. We here in the United states should be praying for the next leader of this country to emulate him.

  • Heith Bar Alan Wetzler

    Please, let’s justify those whose express purpose, is to annhialate the Jewish people.

    Compassion for those caught in the middle of this anti-Semetic war is a given. But calling Israel ‘apartheid’ is so biased as to be either ludicrous or woefully naive.

  • Chris19741949

    Does that sound as insane to you as it does it me? How can rational people believe such bilge?

  • Chris19741949

    Israel was formed as a country/nation after WWII because of the acute guilt feelings of the allies. God had nothing to do with it…

  • Chris19741949

    Would you like to restate what you just said, and try to make it understandable this time?

  • Chris19741949

    How about acknowledging that the Jews have their own religion, which is far older that your “christianity” (and thank you for not imposing your “theology” on us), and that the Muslims have their own religion. Who the hell are you to try to impose your religion on anyone else, or say that someone “needs Christ”?

  • John Airey

    Which bit didn’t you understand?

  • John Airey
  • LogicusPrime

    Nope. Equal rights for all doesn’t necessarily give you a democracy and a democracy doesn’t necessarily give you equal rights for all.

  • mjazzguitar

    The League of Nations proposed a Jewish state before WWII.

  • mjazzguitar

    Arafat was offered 97% of what he wanted and he stopped negotiating and went to war, after pledging not to.
    The palestinians refuse to negotiate.
    Since they left Gaza, Hamas has fired 15000 missiles at Israel’s citizens.
    What are they supposed to do?
    Commit suicide?

  • mjazzguitar

    Israel is not Apartheid

  • mjazzguitar

    “Remove all walls”?
    Do you leave your home unlocked at night?
    You really want the palestinians to blow up Israeli citizens indiscriminately- muslims, Jews, Christians, Druze- on buses and in discos all over again?

  • mjazzguitar
  • mjazzguitar

    The following attack would have happened if Israel had stopped fighting
    A massive terror attack was set to be activated Sept. 24, 2014 through Hamas’s
    offensive tunnel network composed of over forty attack tunnels under Israel’s
    border with Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip during the Jewish Holidays .

    The attack was meant to generate as many as ten thousand casualties, men,
    women and particularly children and hundreds of captives. EXPLOSIVES were
    particularly placed UNDERNEATH KINDERGARTENS to make certain that these
    “institutions” would be the first struck, even before any thing else.

  • David S.

    Yale translates the Hamas covenant, 1988, as saying “This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS),
    clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand,
    explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its
    support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against
    the Jews is very great and very serious.” http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

  • lola p

    I must comment on all these people coining and comparing the apartheid in South Africa to the Israeli/paletinian crisis. I have lived through the Apartheid in SA and i need to add it was NOT only black people but whites also suffered at the hands of apartheid. With regards the Israelis being accused of apartheid.. have you lived through what they have with bombs and atrocities served to them by Islamic extremists and palesitinians. On this post and others you have written you speak about loving your enemies.. have you practised this experientially or is it just a form of self righteousness. Tell me how many cheeks should the israelis give to the paletinians ? How many cheeks do you have and how many times have you allowed someone to slap you?

  • byrdman

    “have you lived through what they have with bombs and atrocities served to them by Islamic extremists and palesitinians.”

    What bombs? which atrocities? Are there not “atrocities on both sides? Seeing as they are in conflict? Are you saying israelis arent behind countless atrocities against the palestinians?? What about the shit the palestinians live through? You know, like being held under a siege, having their homes stolen and bulldozed, missiles raining down on them? White phosphorus? And on and on?

    Are you referring to those pesky hamas “rockets”? Because they literally kill zero israelis. In fact no israelis ever die. Those rockets are home made shitty crude things that do zero damage. No payload, just shitty home made rockets. Which land, btw, in occupied territory.

    You need to get your facts straight. Dont bothering commenting if youre just gonna come with the same old tired one sided view you got from CNN. The palestinians have always had it worse than the israelis since this thing started. The fight was brought to them. Instead of just laying down and dying, like you would have them do, they actually stick up for themselves from time to time, and fight back. You would too if in the same position.

    And before you try to reply with some religious bullshit, no, that “god gave them that land” shit will not fly. The bible is not a legitimate form of a real estate document, and in any event, that shit is a myth anyway. And no, jews are not gods “chosen ppl”.

  • lola p

    Firstly who are you to tell me what i should reply to? I think you should try growing up and not attacking people for a start.You like others are antisemetic clearly and just because the Israelis have put up some good protection to avoid the hits.. doesnt mean they have not had the palestinians doing their fair share of harm. perhaps you only listen to cnn.. i dont actually take any news by face value. i have friends who live in Israel and, no Im not Jewish.

  • Herm

    Every one of the flesh who would not die on the cross for me just as I would for them is my enemy. Every one of the flesh who would not die on the cross for Jesus just as Jesus and His disciples did for them is the enemy of Jesus, His church and all of His disciples.

    I read and listen to the comments here and throughout our media relative to Israeli, Palestinian and USA relations. All I see and hear are people of flesh and blood factions defending their faction. The enemy I would, if without a relationship with Jesus in my heart, fear the most would be the Christians of war and not of the cross. The crusaders, witch burners, apartheid supporters, hoarders, holocaust facilitators, slave traders, and rulers during the Dark Ages all claiming Jesus as their Lord and Savior are Jesus’ and mankind’s greatest enemies.

    All of the rest of the religious organizations opposing one another are founded purely upon dogma, theology, holy books and written laws of old to maintain the unity of their beliefs. They each know in their hearts and minds there is a God and sense the spiritual. None within each have the proposal of a direct living relationship with God in each member’s heart and mind.

    He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. Matthew 16:15-20 (NRSV)

    Anything from flesh and blood cannot reveal that Jesus is the MESSIAH, the Son of the living God. I am going to make an intentional leap here from which most students of the gospels can find the connection. We can blaspheme Jesus and be forgiven but we cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and be forgiven. Without the Holy Spirit we cannot live in God. To be Christ like, spread the good news, and proclaim the risen Lord boldly it cannot be founded upon flesh and blood organizations, churches, memberships or written words. When Jesus ascended with full authority over Heaven and Earth we were not left orphans but He did not leave us with anything written, at all. We were freed from the flesh and blood written laws because the laws and commands of our Lord are written in our hearts and minds by the Spirit of God.

    As a matter of course for human beings, we right away took it upon ourselves to reorganize into flesh and blood corporate structures with written laws, bylaws and top down governance. This was not the structure of Jesus’ walk on Earth. The Apostle Paul did wonders in structuring the gentiles into organized bodies because his higher education as a Pharisees was in organizational skills. Fifty years later Revelations makes it pretty clear that most members of the Christian churches were not on the same page nor in the same spirit but still humanly tightly organized. 300 hundred years later we determined under the sponsorship of a war king, Constantine, we needed to found the church officially on our own canons which we gave the seal of Jesus’ name. The Prince of Peace organizationally became the divine defender and sponsor of flesh and blood war.

    Paul, Peter and James boldly proclaimed the Gospel of Christ Jesus without any form of a written New Testament only because of the rock upon whom Jesus builds His church still today, the living Spirit of Truth.

    Yes, the organizations of Muslims and Jews are our and Jesus’ enemy in that they stand between to separate the people they influence from the influence of the Holy Spirit. In my mind, they continue to do so mostly justified by history that shows that Christians are an empirical warring body of people to be defended against. We can only boldly introduce the Holy Spirit to ignorant enemy hearts and minds if we live according to the counsel of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and minds.

    I love my Christian, Muslim and Jewish enemies nearly as much as my Father in Heaven does. I love my merciful Christian, Muslim and Jewish neighbors as much as I do myself. I don’t agree with anyone who intentionally inflicts pain and death on another in the name of their religion and/or family. Such anti-Christ like behavior serves mankind in the image of God no more constructively and productively than any form like it of vigilantism or riot fever. If the USA were a true Christ like nation, which it is not, we would be giving the Palestinians as much foreign aid and support as we do the Israelis. We would mediate to lovingly help each equally as our enemy, when so, and as our merciful neighbor, when allowed.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48 (NRSV)

  • Michael MacTavish

    Hi Jon: Are you the Jon Trott from JPUSA?

  • JM Smith

    I had the chance to debate my friend (and Conservative Messianic) Dr. Michael Brown on this very subject last year at Gordon-Conwell. Video of our debate, along with a number of resources I compiled for those looking to better understand the issue for themselves, are all available for free at http://jmsmith.org/blog/israel-palestine-notes

    I think those who will dismiss your post (due to your label as a progressive blogger) will perhaps be more inclined to hear from a fellow evangelical who comes to mostly the same conclusions. For what it’s worth.

  • Ron McPherson

    Superbly stated! God Bless!!

  • jontrott

    I confess. Yes.

  • lola p

    Herm and the man who wrote this blog.

    I agree with some of your points. Except that Christians need to remember that Jesus was/Is a Jew and that the replacement theology practised by some well meaning christians is also incorrect.Have you ever thought about what covenant and promise means. If God hypothetically,couldnt and didnt keep His promises to the Jews, What hope do we have? Though i want to add God cant lie and always keeps His promises.

    We as Christians would do well to remember with gratitude the huge
    sacrifices that were made by Jewish people who brought us the written
    Word of God. If we didnt have them writing every detail of scripture ..
    You would have no bible to speak of. The whole bible is Jewish and the message of Jesus Christ is threaded through the old and new testament.The old testament prophesies about Jesus and the new testament is Jesus manifested in the flesh.

    Romans 11v17But
    if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive,
    were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich
    root of the olive tree, 18do
    not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember
    that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”….

  • lola p

    Herm and the man who wrote this blog.

    I agree with some of
    your points. Except that Christians need to remember that Jesus was/Is a
    Jew and that the replacement theology practised by some well meaning
    christians is also incorrect.Have you ever thought about what covenant
    and promise means. If God hypothetically,couldnt and didnt keep His
    promises to the Jews, What hope do we have? Though i want to add God
    cant lie and always keeps His promises.

    We as Christians would do well to remember with gratitude the huge
    sacrifices that were made by Jewish people who brought us the written
    Word of God. If we didnt have them writing every detail of scripture ..
    would have no bible to speak of. The whole bible is Jewish and the
    message of Jesus Christ is threaded through the old and new
    testament.The old testament prophesies about Jesus and the new
    testament is Jesus manifested in the flesh.

    Romans 11v17But
    if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive,
    were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich
    root of the olive tree, 18do
    not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember
    it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You
    will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted

  • Herm

    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left to you, desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.'” Matthew 23:37-39 (NRSV)

    Lola, I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you as scripturally it was not God who broke the covenant but it was the ruling Jews and the Jewish masses supporting the crucifixion of God’s children, before, during and after Jesus’ walk on Earth, who broke the contract.

    To become a student of Rabbi Jesus this is a must …:

    Now large crowds were traveling with him; and he turned and said to them, “Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry the cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not first sit down and estimate the cost, to see whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it will begin to ridicule him, saying, ‘This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.’ Luke 14:25-30 (NRSV)

    … and Jesus building His church upon the rock of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, the Advocate, the Counselor is the foundation, the supporting root, not Israel.

    Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:50-53 (NRSV)

    The curtain was the curtain separating the Holy of Holies (containing the Decalogue and covenant of God) from the people which until then was open to only the Jewish high priest to counsel with God in the presence of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is our High Priest eternally on the order of Melchizedek. Our hearts and minds the Holy of Holies when the Holy Spirit is within.

    But I have said these things to you so that when their hour comes you may remember that I told you about them. “I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going to him who sent me; yet none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts. Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because they do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; about judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. John 16:4-15 (NRSV)

    I testify by my relationship with God that the Holy Spirit is available to every heart and mind who can received Him as a little child knowing nothing at baptism but the love of the Father and Brother. Then, and only then, can we say with heartfelt sincerity, “blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord”.

    The Israelis deserve no more than a carnal merciful neighbor or an enemy who kills prophets and stones those sent to it. The Palestinians deserve no more or less. The Christians who know only their familial traditions of intellect and cannot recognize God in their midst, as did and do scholars of Israel, deserve no more or less. All human beings are loved and through the Spirit of the cross lovable. Jesus chose to allow to be crucified for all of us. All of His disciples have continued to choose to be available to be crucified, beheaded and stoned for all of us in God’s name and God’s love. The only reward as a disciple of Jesus is the possibility of an eternal life of learning and sharing as a child of God with the entire Family and kingdom. The alternative for those who cannot love the Lord their God with all of them and their neighbor as themselves, from a very loving creator God, is a final eternal death knowing nothing and not remembered (not as a punishment but as a final solution to the hell generated from the attitudes of the egotistic intimidators, manipulators, greedy, envious, covetous and subjugators).

    We disciples of Christ need only teach as little children our Lord Jesus’ commands by how we live, to be attractive enough in His light to make more students to learn directly from Jesus as we do.

    Lola, I hope this was not so long so as to become confusing. It is not our task as children to support Israel from the allowance of talents graced to us from our providing Father. Israel as a nation is a branch broken off from the direct nourishment of God’s love to have been grafted in its place a wild gentile/Jewish branch of disciples of Christ. We branches are fed by the root we know as Christ Jesus and not any nation on Earth. As children of God we are not of this Earth.

    In regards to your broad statement, “We as Christians would do well to remember with gratitude the huge sacrifices that were made by Jewish people who brought us the written Word of God.” We have the Word of God available directly to our hearts and minds when bonded to Him in “all” love by the Holy Spirit. The Jewish people who crucified the only Word of God were forgiven by the Father for they knew not what they did. The Jewish people who know not today what they do need no gratitude for their sacrifices other than as a merciful neighbor or need forgiveness for their forefathers’ sacrifice of the Son of God already forgiven by the Father.

    I love you lola for considering others as you would have others consider you! Peace!

  • lola p

    A bit longwinded, but i will say we will have to agree to disagree. You would not have any idea about how much you needed God if it wasnt for the Torah/bible. Someone had to pass it on to you. Though i agree that the word is written on your heart. How many of us without the bible would have had the true knowlege of God. Be real. If God has Grace for you, why would He not have Grace for the first people He made covenant with?

  • Herm

    Lola, sorry for the “longwinded”. You do have to admit, don’t you, that’s it’s a bit shorter than the eternity we have yet to learn? I truly am trying to shorten my relationship with God down to 140 characters with no apparent hope for success. I will try.

    Jesus is real, the Holy Spirit is real, the Father is real, infinite, spiritual and eternal. The influence of God is all around and inside us. God speaks with all who choose to abandon themselves, their family, nation and species as god sufficient unto themselves separate from the creator God.

    The Bible is wonderful as a poetic expose of the relationship between our creator God and mankind but is not the voice of God. The voice of God, The Word, can tell the story without the book but the book is useless without the Word to counsel with.

    I am a long time student of the Bible but did not have a true knowledge of God until joined as one with the Holy Spirit. I was once a scholar and expert debater of the Bible. Today I am in a much better place physically, mentally and spiritually as a very little ignorant child of God. I don’t have the spirit of competitiveness any longer, just a need to share the reality of God as an adoptive family possible for all in Their image.

    God has grace for absolutely everyone in Their image. The Father’s and the Son’s grace begins with the rain falling on good and evil alike and extends to choosing to die on the cross for and by those who kill God not knowing what they do. Christians kill children of God, too, when they kill in the name of Christ.

    The gentiles Paul made disciples (students) for Jesus had no Bible to sit down and study for their lifetime. The Gospel they shared that opened the hearts and minds of the gentiles was the attraction of Jesus’ love then those gentiles became committed disciples by baptism of the Holy Spirit to learn directly from the Rabbi.

    Lola, I am led to gentiles without a Bible or no need to read the Bible and I still serve as God’s servant to bring them into baptism of the Spirit by Jesus. I don’t have to tell them anything but am compelled to direct them to whom I rely on for the peace, joy, passion, empathy and compassion I have learned and enjoy sharing.

    We don’t owe the Jewish tradition anything nor any religious tradition on Earth. We nor God owes anyone or any group anything. God loves everyone. God asks that we do the same and pass the abundance of our overflowing cup on. If the Holy Spirit was allowed to actively influence each of our hearts and minds there would be no needy of any nation of birth, gentile or Jew. Do we have needy, gentile, Christian or Jew?

    Lola, I use the Bible to help point to Jesus for you because you showed an availability and an interest. If you only knew the Holy Spirit without a Bible I would know by your fruits that the Bible is not necessary to share and grow with you as a fellow child of God in the Spirit.

    Okay, okay, Herm’s verbose yet once again. I pray that I made some sense with my words. Summing up:

    And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20 (NRSV)

    Jesus is with us right now. The Jewish and the Muslims are equally nations, with all other nations of this world, recognized by God. No special grace for any nation.

    Love you!

  • яовэят ёскэят

    “One grandfather in-law tried to protect his land in Bethlehem in 1948” Bethlehem was occupied by Jordan in 1948 and remained in Jordanian hands until 1967.

  • Artistree

    I just made a phone call and I stand corrected; the grandfather in law in question was from Nazareth, not Bethlehem. But the point is, he was trying to protect his farm and the Zionists terror group killed him. His family at first fled to Syria but eventually settled in Jordan. I got two extended family grandfathers mixed up. One was from Bethlehem, the other ( who was murdered by the Zionists terrorist) was from Nazareth). Sorry for the mix up.

  • Jack Beans


    Excellent article and deep understanding on your part.. As a Christian in the minority view of seeing the Arabs also as descendants of Abraham, I think they are also entitled to the Promise land. Most Christians in the West failed to see that Ismael is also Abraham’s son. Today’s Jews are so ethnic centric that they believed they are the ONLY rightful heir to the Promised land. If you read the Bible, God did said He will also bless Ismael.

  • яовэят ёскэят

    There was no “ethnic cleansing” in the Nazareth area. The Arabs who were farming there in 1947 are still there and are citizens of Israel.

  • Artistree

    You’re wrong on that one.

  • яовэят ёскэят

    No, I’m not. You don’t know that the Arabs of Nazareth are still living there? You don’t know the difference between Nazareth and Bethlehem? I am very dubious of your story. Possibly you do have a grandfather-in-law who joined the war on the losing side and became a casualty– no shame in that. But the version of the story you are peddling is all full of holes.

  • Donna Hungate

    The one bothersome thing about this is that Christians and Palestinians both suffer equally, therefore wherever prayers for Christians are offered they should also be offered for Palestinians. Otherwise, we make a distinction that only God can make. God loves us all. Praying for the enemy is probably the most difficult thing we are commanded to do. But, we must. The entire world needs prayer.

  • lola p

    Herm. No worries there .i do know the Holy Spirit and have completed a four year degree in theology so respectfully im not totally wet behind the ears. I am not doubting God can meet with you personally in your dreams etc but He does back all things back to scripture and if you dont have knowlege of scripture the bible says we perish for lack of knowlege. so we do need the bible and God caused the books of the bible to be canonised for a reason so we could pass the truth of God to the next generations.

  • lola p

    Also Herm in life we need to always show gratitude to those that have marked a path before us, that made our journey that little easier. in this case I thank the Jews because I choose to and not because I am forced. I might add this as God was speaking to the Jews at this time.

    Genesis 12:3New Living Translation (NLT)

    3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with
    contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.”

  • Herm

    “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.” John 16:12-15 (NRSV)

    Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
    John 3:5-8 (NRSV)

    Oh, I testify right now is so much more than “dreams etc”. It was nearly 30 years after seminary before I was born of the Spirit. The difference is what I want to share the possibility of with all who I love.

  • Realist1234

    One of our local politicians here in NI, Jim Molyneaux recently died. The BBC showed a Spotlight programme in which he returned to the Belsen concentraion camp, which as a young soldier he helped to ‘liberate’ at the end of the 2nd World War. His memories and the video archives are shocking. I would recommend all young people watch this to understand a little of the evil that was perpertrated against the Jewish people (and others). Ann Frank was one of the many who died here, at the tender age of 16. We shall never forget.

  • StevoR

    Literally zero Israelis killed by Hamas rocketfire? Really? Wrong :


    “Medical officials in southern Israel announced the death of a four-year-old Israeli boy who suffered serious injuries when a mortar launched from the northern Gaza Strip directly slammed into a car before sundown on Friday.”

    You want to go tell that baby’s family just how harmless you think Hamas are now?

  • Herm
  • Herm

    all the walls are well inside and dissecting the Palestinian border and dissecting Palestinian neighborhoods, the Palestinian (Samaritan) home, where Israelis are securing their homes over the top of Palestinian homes in Palestinian territory … nobody is saying Israel can’t build a wall around its own borders, it is their home to lock but not the West Bank. Would you not fight back to protect your home from the ongoing invasion of an aggressive neighbor? You know from the outside which one is the aggressor by whom is inside whom.

  • Herm

    We can’t by definition be anti-Semitic if we’re pro-Palestinian rights. Both languages, of the Jews and of the Arabs, are Semitic.

  • Forgive me, Herm, I may have been less than clear; I was intending to reference specifically those people who are not pro-Palestine, but sometimes pretend to be in their dedication to being anti-Jew.

  • Ahmaid Ahdoodi

    I’m thankful that gays and lesbians are able to live free, open lives in Israel. Come to think of it, I can’t think of any other state in the Middle East that is safe for the LGBT community….nor another state in the Middle East in which women enjoy rights genuinely equal to those of men…nor another state in the Middle East where atheism isn’t cause for ostracization, prison time, or worse.

  • RachelLeviCo

    Tel Aviv’s PRIDE parades are legendary!

  • Shane McCausland

    they say “I stand with isreal”, like they support any war that government gets into. Where is Jesus in all of it?

  • ataturkey

    “When we say “Israel” or “Palestinian” one often thinks of Jew vs. Muslim. However, Palestinians include both Christians and Muslims, though Christians are the minority.”

    Israelis also include both Christians and Muslims — some of which have died either fighting for Israel or as victims of terrorism from the Palestinian side. That you decide to ignore this reality — that both sides to this conflict are not monolithic, politically or religiously, is pure dishonesty on your part.

  • Fire Sign

    That is not true at all. Israelis asked the Arabs that were living there at the inception of the State to stay and live in peace, but the Arab League told them to leave so they could wipe out the Jews. So they left. And the Arab League lost. Israel has given away land for peace. The Arabs got the land, but there is no peace. Arabs may be sons of Abraham – and the Jews acknowledge that – but they were not promised the land. There has always been a Jewish prescence in the land, and the fact of the matter is that the Arabs ignored the place until the Jews moved in. Arabs will not tolerate a non-Muslim presence in the area. Just ask the Jews. Just ask the Christians in Lebanon. Just ask anyone who has lived as a non-Muslim in a Muslim country. The Arabs have been greatly blessed by God. Just look at all the countries they run. That they are not a blessing back to humanity is their own fault.

  • RandyBarge

    Of course Jesus is a Jew. He is the long awaited Jewish messiah. Faith in Christ has never been about “replacing” the promises of the Old Covenant but fulfilling them. The point that the apostle Paul makes repeatedly, is that Jesus Messiah is the fulfillment of the covenant promises that God made to Abraham: that Abraham’s seed would be a blessing to the whole world. Because of God’s faithfulness to the covenant promises, all who believe in Jesus Messiah, are now a part of Abraham’s family.
    “There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male or female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise.” (Gal 3:27-29).

  • RandyBarge

    Thanks for the link. Your presentation was wonderful and insightful. I hope lots of people have the opportunity to see and hear it. Keep up the excellent work. Blessings and Peace!

  • His point was that “Christians and Palestinians” is not a mutually exclusive grouping; Christians are as much a part of Palestine as Muslims are, and “both suffer equally”.

  • Can we agree to a little truth in labelling here? The pro-justice people (at least) should quit using the hasbara term “settlers”, which implies expansion into a previously uninhabited land; the correct term is imperial colonists.

  • Ginny Levin

    YOU really do not know Israeli Christians and Muslims, do you? if you did, and if you talked to them, you would find out that they are also suffering inequalities and injustice under Israel – They stand with and support the oppressed Palestinians.

  • Ginny Levin

    The Israeli world wide lobby so distorts the true history of what happened there. They did NOT ask any Arabs to live in peace. They literally banged on their doors and told them to leave or die. That is the actual experience. So even Israel proper (not the areas currently called occupied territories) was forcefully taken and built over the lands and homes of the Arab Palestinians.

  • ataturkey

    Again, why do you insist on painting with such broad brushes? It’s racist and patronizing.

    Indeed, both Israeli Christians and Muslims, have suffered from discrimination and injustice – as Arabs – in Israeli society (though Christians have fared far better and have education and income levels on par with Jews). But the fact remains is that “Israeli” by definition, includes Christians and Muslims and Druze. And although the numbers are relatively small — Arab Christians and Arab Muslims have fought, and died, defending their country, Israel. Other Israeli-Arabs have died, ostensibly at the hands of their fellow Arabs, as well.

    To ignore that ‘Israeli’ includes not just Jews, is, simply, wrong.

  • Fire Sign

    No “Ginny” you have that wrong, perhaps purposely so. It’s the Arab League that told them to leave, not the Jews. I know, I got the story direct from my in-laws mouth. They are Palestinians living in Lebanon. They were not given a choice and they lived in Haifa. They regret leaving.
    As for your logic, if it were true – which it’s not – then there would be no Arabs living in peace in Israel. If they didn’t like Israel so much, then why are there Arab outfits in the IDF? Explain that.

  • Fire Sign

    Right, like the Druze outfits in the IDF really truly hate Israel – NOT. They are Israelis too, and have full rights. I believe you are a “Palestinian Arab” troll using a Jewish name to spread lies. Gotcha!

  • Arachne646

    This is Israel’s strategy to distract from its apartheid with LGBTQ pinkwashing. Human rights for Jewish and tourist LGBTQ people are good, and PRIDE parades are great, but Boycott Divestment and Sanctions ended apartheid in South Africa, and it’s doing the same in Israel/Palestine.

  • Arachne646

    There aren’t. Palestinians who are citizens of Israel don’t have the same rights as Jewish citizens (for example, they don’t confer citizenship upon their spouse), are subject to heinous racism and violence, and aren’t even permitted to commemorate the Nakba (catastrophe), when, starting in late Fall 1947, Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun, Lehi, and the Stern Gang, started clearing out Arabs from villages in the parts of British Palestine designated for Jewish governance by the UN negotiations. The Deir Yassin massacre took place in April/48, and Israel was declared in May. The Palestinian refugees who left during the Arab-Israeli war (declared to protect Palestinians from the Israeli attacks) expected to return after brief fighting. Their homes were “appropriated”, however, by new Israelis.

  • KesherForum

    “Israel should never be blamed for the PA’s self-inflicted wounds.”

  • Ahmaid Ahdoodi

    Your casual indifference is very unfortunate. LGBTQ rights are a matter of ‘pinkwashing?’ Really?

    Do you think Palestine might grant its gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered persons, and queer folk similar rights? Or do you think they will continue to enact a policy of sexual apartheid against their own people?

  • Herm

    … and Christ is Anti LGBTQ? Where do you get that?

  • Quranimal Control

    Benjamin, you might have spent at least a small bit of effort describing to us how it is that Christians who are ostensibly *palestinians* (desire to?) continue to identify themselves with or live among those who are sworn to the destruction of Israel i.e. Hamas.

    “Instead of being outraged, instead of demanding peace and justice, America sends Israel millions of dollars a day to finance their illegal oppression of Christians and Muslims- and not only do we support their actions, but much of the Christian community will quickly jump all over you if you so much as question it. Being a good Christian in too many parts means pledging allegiance to the United States of America and to Israel too.”

    This was over the top. America sends Israel millions of dollars a day to finance their illegal oppression of Christians…? How is it that you come to ascribe this intent, especially since this is the first that many of us are hearing about Israeli abuses of Christians in *palestine*?

  • Quranimal Control

    I totally missed the part where Ismael’s descendants were liberated from Egypt right alongside the tribes of Israel, wandered in the wilderness for 40 years following Moses, then entered into the Promised Land along with the tribes of Israel.

    Help me out, Jack Beans, and point me toward those texts that indicated the entitlement of Ismael’s descendants that you are going on about here.

  • JenellYB

    If this is the first you have heard of these abuses, I don’t mean to be rude, but you’ve been living a very sheltered life. If you, and the many others you say are just now hearing about it, perhaps you can lead at least some of those others in exploring the well documented history of what is really going on over there.

  • Terri Knoll

    One needs only to research the area before the Nakba to see that Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived side by side in peace for thousands of years. It will be that way again. A “Jewish State” is apartheid and will not be tolerated by the world anymore. No one has ever said they want to wipe Jews off the map, the intention is to wipe any semblance of a “Jewish State” off the map. This Israel is NOT our Zion, this Israel is anti-Christ and that should really make Christians, especially American Christians go back and rethink their theology. The only solution now is tearing down all the walls, equal rights for ALL people in ALL the land, right of return and recompense for Palestinians, and the end to apartheid thinking and theology. I strongly encourage American Christians to have dialog with Palestinian Christians and really listen. Drop your preconceived notions and truly listen. Then research.

  • Shane McCausland

    Rapture is post tribulation anyways, not pre tribulation.

  • Crusader

    I have yet to read the part about the Ashkenazi Khazars coming from the Caucasus to inherit the holy land.

    To be honest. Yes could care less about the Muslim Palestinians. Muslims seem to be almost as sick and depraved as their Jewish enemies.

    Having said that. The Jews BY FAR are the biggest threat to western Christian society. MY society. They declared a covert and at times open war against my people. How many of my people had to die for Israel since it’s creation?

    I’m sick of this synagogue of satan destroying my culture, ancestral homelands, and religion. I’m so done with the Jews and their lies.

    God bless all Christians. All over the world. We shall have our day. The Jews, Muslims, and Communists who wish us ill will get theirs. We have risen up many times throughout history and will do so again. Many of our people are waking up to their MSM propaganda. And when the blinds are off the sleeping lion will awaken and cast these demons from our lands. They fear this and know it’s inevitability. Which is why they’re ratcheting up the propaganda. It’s desperation. Deus Vult!

  • Crusader

    The bible was written by HEBREWS. Jesus was a HEBREW. The majority of todays jews are descended from the Caucasus. Today’s Israel is the synagogue of satan mention in the revelations.

  • zafarov

    A dispossessed and occupied nation has every right
    to struggle for liberation and sovereignty. That includes armed struggle. The
    noble Palestinian Resistance is a struggle against a colonial
    Zionist entity. Many of its heroes and martyrs are Christians. Those Christian
    Palestinians who chose armed struggle include George Habash, founder of the PFLP and the Arab Nationalist Movement, Nayif Hawtmeh, founder and General Secretary of the DFLP and Dr. Wadie Haddad member and the leader of the national resistance wing of PFLP.
    Others who chose a different path include Dr Edward Said Palestinian
    literary theorist, cultural critic, and political activist, Dr Hanan Ashrawi, politician, legislator, activist, and scholar, Dr Ghassan Andoni, professor of
    physics at Birzeit University, co-founder of the International Solidarity
    Movement (ISM) and founder of the International Middle East Media Centre and Hanna Abu Hanna poet, writer, political
    activist and educator

  • Noah

    This is about how Israel treats Palestinian Christians. And Israelis Christians.

  • mjazzguitar

    More of a propaganda hit piece.

  • Noah

    Still unrelated…

  • Notorious

    That’s not even remotely true. Jews lived as second class citizens in almost all Muslim and Christian countries throughout most of history. There were countless unprovoked attacks against Jews, Jews were forced to live in ghettos, and they were viewed as inferior to Muslims/Christians throughout Europe and the Muslim world. Even in the tolerant Ottoman Empire, Jews were required to pay extra taxes and were the victims of violence.

    Arab violence towards Jews in British Palestine started decades before Israel was established.

  • Notorious

    I think it should be noted that roughly 98% of Palestinians living the West Bank and Gaza are Muslim. In contrast, 9% of Israel’s Arab population (who enjoy equal rights and live better than Arabs in most of the Muslim world) are Christian.


  • Bones

    South Africa could say the same about the blacks in the time of apartheid I suppose. They had it better in South Africa than in the rest of Africa.

    Hey if you’re a supposed Western democratic country you’re even more beholden to hold up civil rights than Saudi dictators.

    “Minority Life in Israel

    My mother, Zakia, was so proud that my sister and I spoke better Hebrew than Arabic. Osman, my father, believed that by achieving the highest levels of education, we would one day be treated as equal in our country,Israel. He sincerely believed that Palestinians capable of articulating their narrative would win the hearts and minds of Israeli Jews.

    My parents believed in the promise of a democracy that transcends ethnicity. I still retain that dream, but it is tested every time I go home. I am a citizen of Israel, married to an American Jew, yet I am not welcome in Israel. For I am Palestinian.

    During a recent visit, my husband breezed through security at Ben-Gurion airport, but our teenage daughter and I — who both have dual citizenship of Israel and Italy — were strip-searched. I’m inured to the procedure: I have to endure it almost every time I enter and leave the country. But our daughter, age 17, sobbed with chagrin. “This place breeds hate everywhere!” she cried.

    On the same trip, I attempted to renew her Israeli passport. “She is not Jewish,” an official told me, “and therefore we are not sure she is entitled to citizenship.”

    For Israeli Palestinians — and we make up 20 percent of the population — these are ordinary humiliations. But I wonder what my parents, both now dead, would have made of the graffiti that recently appeared on the walls of our family home in Haifa, a mixed city in the north of Israel.

    “Death to Arabs,” it read.

    During the recent war between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, my cousin was walking on the beach near her home, also in Haifa. She overheard a group of Israeli sunbathers casually discussing how the Israeli Army should deal with the residents of Gaza — “Just kill them all,” she heard one say.

    “I’ve never felt so scared in my 32 years,” she told me. “I don’t want them to know I’m Palestinian.”

    Israel is increasingly becoming a project of ethno-religious purity and exclusion. Religious Zionist and ultra-Orthodox parties occupy 30 of the 120 seats in the Knesset, and the coalition government includes members of Jewish Home, a religious Zionist party, and Yisrael Beiteinu, a right-wing nationalist party. Central to their politics is a program of discriminatory legislation, designed to curtail the civil rights of Palestinian Israeli citizens.

    Chief among the more than 50 discriminatory Israeli laws documented by Adalah, the Haifa-based Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, is the Law of Return, which automatically guarantees Israeli citizenship for every Jew regardless of birthplace. Often, they are shepherded into settlements in the West Bank (illegal under international law), where they receive government benefits. Palestinian Israeli citizens, meanwhile, are subject to a ban on family reunification: If they marry a fellow Palestinian from the West Bank or Gaza, they are prohibited from living in Israel under the Citizenship and Entry Into Israel Law.

    In September, Israel’s Supreme Court dismissed a petition challenging the Admissions Committees Law, which allows communities to reject housing applicants based on “cultural and social suitability” — a legal pretext to deny residency to non-Jews. In practice, even before the law was passed, it was virtually impossible for a Palestinian to buy or rent a home in any majority-Jewish city.

    Further ethnic separation is maintained by the education system. Aside from a few mixed schools, most educational institutions in Israel are divided into Arab and Jewish ones. According to Nurit Peled-Elhanan, a Hebrew University professor of sociology who has produced the most comprehensive survey of Israeli public school curriculums, not one positive reference to Palestinians exists in Israeli high school textbooks. Palestinians are described as either “Arab farmers with no nationality” or fearsome “terrorists,” as Professor Peled-Elhanan documented in her book “Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education.”

    Israel’s system of segregation has led to a situation where, according to a recent poll, 42 percent of Jews say they have never met a Palestinian.

    Historically, ultra-Orthodox Jews did not serve in the armed forces. Today, they do — and serve in every capacity, including in the most important elite Israeli army units, such as the Sayeret Matkal special forces and Unit 8200, whose responsibilities include gathering intelligence on any Palestinian they deem a “security threat.”

    Unlike every former head of Shin Bet, Israel’s equivalent of the F.B.I., Yoram Cohen, who today heads the agency, is a religious Jew. That change is typical of Israeli society. The greater integration of ultra-Orthodox Jews clearly offers benefits to Jewish Israelis, but for Palestinian Israeli citizens, it has meant a new, religiously inspired racism, on top of the old secular discrimination.

    National leaders proudly promote hate policies. Israel’s foreign minister and the leader of the secular nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu party, Avigdor Lieberman, has championed a call to boycott the businesses of Palestinian citizens of Israel and, ominously, has even sought to make the “transfer” of Palestinians legal. Secretary of State John Kerry has met with Mr. Lieberman — apparently without challenging him on such reprehensible views.

    This is the atmosphere in which Israel’s Palestinians live. And there is no redress available to us elsewhere. Our rights and welfare certainly cannot be represented by the Palestinian Authority, whose jurisdiction is limited to partial control of the population of the West Bank. Its president, Mahmoud Abbas, cannot negotiate for us because we are Israeli citizens. Israel, however, prefers not to think of us as such, and thus resorts to all manner of petty aggressions to prove it, like trying to deny my daughter a new passport.

    Israel is quick to point out efforts to delegitimize the Jewish state. Yet what truly undermines Israel’s international standing is not its critics, but Israel’s abysmal treatment of its own citizens who are Palestinian. It is little different than other countries that have systematically discriminated against and segregated a whole class of its people based on race, religion and ethnicity.

    While Israel (like the United States) claims to abhor racism and human rights violations elsewhere, the country’s political leadership is actively enacting laws that ensure a pervasive institutionalized system of discrimination. What Israel needs, conversely, is a civil rights movement.

    Rula Jebreal is a journalist, foreign policy analyst and author.


  • Bones

    You forgot Zionist terrorism against the Brits and Arabs in Palestine.

  • Notorious

    I don’t think you know what “Semitic” means. Semitic is a linguistic term, and since Israeli Jews speak Hebrew (and this is the indigenous Jewish language), which is the oldest Semitic language still in use and uses the oldest Semitic alphabet still in wide use, Israeli Jews are just as “Semitic” as any Arabic speaking peoples.

    Arabic is 1,000+ years younger than Hebrew and not indigenous to the Levant. This idea that Arabic-speakers are “indigenous” to every region of the “Middle East” is ludicrous and white-washing the diverse and complex history of the region.

    In terms of genetics, Palestinians are descended from a mixture of Levantine populations, Arabian populations (especially Bedouins), Egyptians, and Sub-Saharan Africans. Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews are descended primarily from Judeans and Southern Europeans, and Mizrakhi Jews are descended primarily from Judeans and Persians/Mesopotamians.

    There are also tons of Arab Israelis who are very passionately pro-Israel because they live in Israel and appreciate their quality of life. Supporting Palestinian rights is not what gets some Jews the label of “self-hating.” Rather, it’s their opposition to Israel’s existence and regurgitation of libel or conspiracy theories that have simply replaced the word “Jew” with “Zionist.”

  • Notorious

    That argument makes no sense and genetic studies would argue otherwise.

  • Notorious

    Actually “Zionist terrorism” did not start until years after numerous accounts of Arab violence violence towards Jews in British Palestine.


  • Notorious

    Right except that’s not true. Africans in South Africa did not have better qualities of life during Apartheid. Even now, crime, homicide, and disease affect South Africa more than many, if not most, other African nations. South African “terrorists” targeted infrastructure, while since day one, Palestinian terrorists have targeted civilians. And perhaps most importantly, Arab Israelis have all the same rights as other Israelis. They serve in the Knesset (where they can preach as much hate as their constituents will tolerate), on the Supreme Court, work and are treated in the hospitals, work and study at universities, and are very much a part of Israeli society.

    Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, despite all of the insanity (on both ends) in the conflict, live as well as most neighboring Arabs (in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq) in most respects, and those respects that they do not are primarily the consequence of their “national aspirations.” For instance, limited mobility, resulting in high unemployment, is a direct result of the Second Intifada.

    Also, anecdotes are nice.




  • Bones

    Well I guess that makes it ok then.

    So I take it you guys are going to occupy the West Bank forever?

  • Bones

    “And perhaps most importantly, Arab Israelis have all the same rights as other Israelis. They serve in the Knesset (where they can preach as much hate as their constituents will tolerate), on the Supreme Court, work and are treated in the hospitals, work and study at universities, and are very much a part of Israeli society.”

    You are aware that Iran says the same about Jews in Iran….

    It’s quite obvious that Arabs don’t share your propaganda. Let’s not forget Bibi’s scare tactics that hordes of Arabs will be racing to the polls which he used to get himself reelected….

    Even the Israeli government’s Or Commission recognised that discrimination was rampant in a report 10 years ago.

    “Discrimination Against Israeli Arabs Still Rampant, 10 Years On

    Ten years after report on October 2000 riots, in which 13 were killed, the state has failed to implement antidiscrimination measures that would reestablish just relations between Jews and Arabs in Israel.

    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152

    My Palestinian friends weren’t too happy about being evicted from their house by the IDF at gunpoint which was then given to Jewish settlers.

    I need you to tell them how lucky they were……and to stop being nationalistic.

  • The destroyer


  • The destroyer

    Yes good stuff once again

  • SCS

    I think you are right! I changed my opinion after further studies. Thanks for your comment my friend!

  • Notorious

    No terrorism is okay.

    But this completely disproves the ridiculous theory that Palestinian violence towards Jews results from the establishment of Israel or the occupation. It long predates both, and Palestinian Arab leaders encouraged violence against Jewish civilians decades before either.

    It would be wonderful if Israel could leave the West Bank and then there would be peace (if only life were so simple), but considering what happened after they left Gaza and considering the political climate of the West Bank, withdrawing would almost inevitably lead to war (and 50% of Israel’s Jewish population lives well within rocket-range of the West Bank).

    No country would ever put its own citizens in such danger.

  • Notorious

    What does this have to do with Iran? The 8,000 Jews in Iran are free to stay there if they are happy… that doesn’t somehow justify Iranian leaders’ regular threats to destroy Israel.

    What propaganda? The videos I posted were people asking random Arab Israelis whether they live under “apartheid” and one video asked Palestinians in the West Bank how their lives were affected by the occupation.

    Many of the Arab Israelis answered “yes” to “apartheid” (after being told what the word means) and justified this answer by describing the type of racism that exists in every country in the world. In short, by those standards, there is “apartheid” in the US, Europe, and everywhere else pretty much.

    The Palestinians in the West Bank seem to have been most affected by the occupation in that traveling is slightly less convenient. What horrible lives they all lead!

    The fact that the Israeli government issues reports so critical of itself I think says enough. 10 years is also a very long time for a country that’s 67 years old.

    10 years ago also just happened to be right at the end of the Second Intifada, which has been a more direct cause of all the problems today.

    The article you posted (which I cannot read without a subscription) doesn’t even really talk about what you just described as far as I can tell, and relates to a riot in the early days of the Second Intifada.

    It’s also an op-ed from Haaretz, which, in line with Israel’s freedom of press/speech, is probably more critical of Israel than any mainstream American publication is critical of the US.

    I’m sorry to hear that about your Palestinian friends. That’s awful.

    But you know, my Israeli family and friends don’t appreciate being under regular rocket fire or fearing for their lives while walking down the street, and did not appreciate fearing that the bus they rode or cafe they sat in was going to be blown up by a “martyr” from 2000-2005.

  • Notorious


  • Bones

    I suppose you ran down to vote for Bibi when he warned about the hordes of Arabs going to vote in the last election. Or maybe you voted for Jewish Home or Yisrael Beiteinu.

    I mean could you imagine a western politician saying that about other people in their country like blacks or Asians.

    And fmd if you can’t see the problem with settlements and the injustice in the Occupied Territories then you don’t have a clue.

    And the response to the Or report was to show nothing had changed in 10 years.

    Can Arabs buy land in Jewish cities?

    You only need to look at the sentiment and incitement which happened 25 years ago when Israel and the PLO were on the cusp of peace.

    It wasn’t an Arab who killed Rabin was it?

    I’ll send my Christian minister friend your sympathies. I’m sure that’ll make them feel better about Israel.

  • Bones

    Of course there was Arab violence against Jews. There was Jewish violence against Arabs as well.

    Heck the terrorists who blew up the King David Hotel became your countries PMs.

    If you think Likud is going to abandon it’s settlement policy in the West Bank, you’re nuts. It’s part of their party platform.

    “So I take it you guys are going to occupy the West Bank forever?”

    I’ll take that as a yes.

  • Notorious

    Um, thank you for making false assumptions about me. And western politicians (in the US and Europe) say racist things all of the time, and none of them are in any situation remotely similar to that of Israel. Also Israeli Arab MKs (apartheid, huh?) compare the Israeli government to the Nazis and they remain in office. It’s clearly a different political and social climate.

    The settlements are certainly problematic for peace. I don’t disagree. That doesn’t change the history of the conflict or the immense security risks for Israel.

    It’s not my fault that I could not access the article you posted. But an op-ed in Haaretz is hardly evidence of anything. The report was controversial, and as James Taranto of the WSJ said:

    “Yet even acknowledging that Israeli democracy is flawed, its political system is still vastly superior to those of its adversaries. Israeli Arabs enjoy more political and civil liberties than citizens of just about any Arab country; and the only Arab lands that come anywhere close to being democracies are Lebanon, Iraq and the disputed Palestinian territories—the last two only because of American intervention. That the Israeli government criticizes its own treatment of Arabs is a testament to its democracy; can anyone imagine, say, the Saudi regime offering similar criticisms of its treatment of Shiites, non-Muslims or women? American democracy, too, is not without its flaws. During World War II, for instance, black Americans were still disfranchised, and innocent Japanese-Americans were rounded up and put in camps. It does not follow that America was no better than Nazi Germany.”

    Yes, Arabs can buy land in Jewish cities.

    Who knows what would have happened had Rabin’s plan gone through. It may have resulted in lasting peace, it may have resulted in a war (which is pretty much inevitable if Israel simply withdrew right now). In any case, the fact that an extremist Jew assassinated Rabin does not put the blame on Israel or even on the minority of ultra-Orthodox Jews. Just like the assassination of Sadat cannot be blamed on all Egyptians or all Arabs.

  • Notorious

    Thank you for not reading the link I posted. Arab MURDER of Jewish CIVILIANS began about a decade before the Irgun was even founded.

    The terrorists who blew up the King David Hotel warned the hotel of the bomb, but they ignored it.

    The majority of Israeli Jews are in favor of dismantling the settlements in exchange for peace.
    And thank you for ignoring the numerous valid security and safety reasons for Israel’s continued presence in the West Bank. You know, there wouldn’t be walls or checkpoints if it weren’t for suicide bombers and gunmen posing as workers or visitors exploiting their free movement during the Second Intifada. You have the cause-and-effect of this conflict completely backwards.

  • Terry McIntosh

    Why should Christians support Palestinian rights?


  • Montelatici

    Does anyone think that the Muslims and Christians in Palestine did not see what was about to happen to them? Does anyone think that they should not have at least tried to make the settlement of European Jews in Palestine difficult?

    I just wonder how any of you supporters of Israel would have reacted to a plan, in writing, that would result in your being ruled by people from a different continent. Would you have docilely accepted these new rulers from Europe or would have you attacked their settlements?

  • Bones

    Let’s call Zionism what it actually is – Jewish Nationalism.

    Violence against Jews actually coincides with mass Jewish immigration to Palestine and Zionist claims on the Middle east which had started making claims and settlements as early as 1870. The Haganah were even assassinating anti-Zionist Jews as early as 1924.

    Even Einstein denounced Menachem Begin as a fascist and terrorist.

    The Arabs were also screwed by the Allies after helping them drive out the Turks from the Middle East in World War One.

    Their reward – to be artificially divided as the allies saw fit.

    So basically you have two nationalist movements colliding – one had favour with the allies, the other didn’t.

    “The majority of Israeli Jews are in favor of dismantling the settlements in exchange for peace.”


    Israeli Public Opinion Polls:

    Opinion on Settlements and Outposts

    “Should Israel agree to extend the settlement construction freeze?”

    No- 54%


    Hence why Netanyahu keeps getting elected.

  • Notorious

    The Palestinians did organize a number of Arab Congresses beginning in 1919, in which they initially proposed to be included in Arab Syria (thereby completely disproving any notion that “Palestine” was ever a distinct Arab nation), and only changed their proposal once the French took over Syria. They also wanted to stop all Jewish immigration to *British* Palestine. I’m curious, would any of you Palestinian-apologists, who justify terrorism, support similar proposals from Europeans with regard to modern Middle Eastern refugees seeking safety in Europe?

    The Zionists were not trying “rule” over anyone. They wanted an independent state for Jews within the sparsely-populated region of the Ottoman and (later) British Empires that was their historical homeland. Is it just a coincidence that the Arab population exploded during the same period that Jews began moving to the region? I don’t think so.

    In fact the British did divide British Palestine into an Arab and Jewish state, the former being Jordan, in which Jews were forbidden to settle. Is it just a coincidence that the Palestinian and Jordanian flags are nearly identical? Or that the Palestinian flag is actually the flag of the Hejaz Kingdom in Saudi Arabia that was ruled by the Hashemites (who now rule Jordan)? Again, I don’t think so.


    There were numerous other proposals to divide what was left of British Palestine (initially intended to be the Jewish state), all of which were greatly advantageous to the Arabs (giving them either the vast majority of the land–Peel Commission–or the vast majority of arable land–UN Partition), each of which the Arabs rejected and the Jews accepted.

    Also, Jews have been ruled by foreign peoples for thousands of years, and the Arabs didn’t seem to mind much when the Turkish Ottomans ruled them for centuries, or when the Jordanians and Egyptians ruled them from 1948-1967.

  • Notorious

    What’s wrong with Jewish nationalism? Are Jews not allowed to be nationalistic, but Europeans and Arabs are? Zionist claims in the Middle East? You mean moving to a region of a vast empire that was hardly inhabited? Building cities and towns on barren land? Also, the assassinated anti-Zionist Jew was “anti-Zionist” in the same way that Neturai Karta is anti-Zionist (which is hardly i line with the views of non-Jewish anti-Zionists).

    You also try to paint Zionism as monolithic. Einstein was a passionate Zionist, and different factions of Zionism clashed on countless occasions.

    How convenient of you to leave out the polls that actually respond to the statement I made–dismantling settlements in EXCHANGE for peace.

    “Do you support or oppose dismantling most of the settlements in the territories as part of a peace agreement with the Palestinians?

    Support: 45.2%
    Oppose: 45.9% (2010)

    Support: 49%
    Oppose: 43% (2009)”

    It’s obviously split almost evenly–variations probably dependent on specific circumstances–but in none of these polls do the majority oppose dismantling settlements in favor of peace.

    And that’s not why Netanyahu keeps getting elected. That’s not the only factor in Israeli life. Netanyahu is strong on national security and, unlike many people living outside of Israel who are unable to comprehend what the situation is actually like from the inside, this is intensely relevant to Israeli citizens who deal with rocket fire and random stabbings. If (prior to very recent developments) Cuba had been shooting rockets at Miami for the U.S.’s embargo and attitude toward the country, I’m sure most American citizens (especially those living in Florida) would support a military response. The main difference, of course, is that Israel is tiny and these attacks affect all Israelis much more directly than any attack on the U.S. (or other countries that are much, much larger than Israel) would affect most Americans. Also the Israeli economy has done very well under Netanyahu and is growing at a faster rate than most other developed countries.

  • Bones

    I’m pretty sure that there would be massive violence if Muslim refugees declared part of Germany, Poland or some other European country as an independent state based on religion and ethnicity.

    You Israel apologists don’t seem to get that.

    “The Zionists were not trying “rule” over anyone. They wanted an independent state for Jews within the sparsely-populated region of the Ottoman and (later) British Empires that was their historical homeland. ”

    Who were vastly outnumbered by the Arab populace.

    At no stage did the local populace agree to be part of an independent Jewish state who supposedly wasn’t going to rule over them.

    And both Jordan and the Palestinian flags are based on the flag of the Arab revolt.

  • Bones

    What’s wrong with Jewish nationalism?

    Well it goes to the heart of the conflict in the Middle East.

    There was no conflict between Arabs and Jews until nationalists wanted a nation based on religion and ethnicity.

    And Einstein was no supporter of a separate state especially the brutality of Israeli heroes such as Begin.

    You talk about terrorism.

    It is Israel which gave us modern day terrorism…….and showed that it works.

    And you seem to think that Netanyahu is going to go against Likud’s charter to expand settlements. And let’s not forget Bibi was looking at being turfed out u til he went the ol xenophobic the Arabs are taking over route.

    And those statistics do not show a majority as you claimed.

    Nah you apologists are easy to see through.

    Some of us still remember Rabin.

  • Notorious

    Um, no the Middle East conflict is the result of Arab nationalism and European (not Jewish, not Zionist) imperialism. Ever hear of the Arab revolts against the Ottomans? The only reason the Middle East was remotely stable for centuries was because the Ottomans ruled over them. Was it also Israel’s fault that the Ottoman Empire fell after WW1?

    Why should the Jews not have a nation? Muslims and Arabs have how many nations? You think that Arabs are indigenous to the Levant or North Africa or Mesopotamia? No, they took over those lands.

    Einstein was 100% a supporter of Israel, the separate autonomous Jewish state. This is well documented and not even up for debate.

    There was tons of animosity between Arabs (and especially Arab Muslims) and Jews long before Israel. Jews were persecuted and oppressed in Arab (and other Muslim) countries since the inception of Islam. The first Jewish ghettos (obviously not by that name) were in Arab Muslim countries. Jews were massacred by Arab Muslims on numerous occasions throughout history. Was the Damascus Affair of 1840 also the result of Zionism?

    Israel was not the source of modern-day terrorism, what a ludicrous accusation.

    While Rabin’s ideals may have been noble, they completely ignore the reality of Palestinian culture/society, whose sole intent is to “reconquer Palestine,” a land that was previously owned by wealthy absentee landlords or foreign governments, and a nation-state that never existed. I was personally in favor of the 2005 disengagement from Gaza and, now, looking back, I think it was a horrible mistake. Doing the same in the West Bank would be infinitely more disastrous and only a delusional lunatic (or someone who wants to see a full scale war with serious casualties) would advocate for it.

  • Notorious

    And yet Arab violence towards Jews long preceded any such declaration and was purely in response to Jewish immigration.

    Yes, vastly outnumbered by Arabs, whose population was smaller than most major European cities. It’s not like the land was overcrowded. Today there are about 5X as many Arabs alone as there were in 1948, already after decades of massive population growth. There was plenty of room for both people but the Arabs refused (and still refuse) to cooperate.

    And, no, the flags are virtually identical to the flag of the Hejaz Kingdom, which was founded in 1916, literally 5 days after the Arab Revolt began. To separate these and ignore the fact that Jordan, which is 50% Palestinian, was established as Arab Palestine, and whose ruling family ruled the Hejaz Kingdom is just silly. There are variations in other Arabs countries, but those two flags basically haven’t changed at all (except maybe being more rectangular).

    Meanwhile, the colors were chosen based on these lines from a Medieval Arabic poem:

    “White are our deeds, black are our battles,
    Green are our fields, red are our swords.”

    So even the colors symbolize war and self-righteousness, traits that are just as relevant today regarding the Palestinian national movement.

  • Bones

    Once again you seek to downplay the role of Zionism in the Middle East. British imperialists such as Lord Balfour were Christian Zionists.

    It was British Imperialism which advocated a separate Jewish state.

    The Damascus Affair was the result of enmity between Christians and Jews which was hardly a new thing.

    History shows that Judaism would not have survived if they hadn’t been protected by Islam. Once again there were large Jewish communities in Arab countries until the establishment of the Jewish state.

    There still is a large remnant in Iran.

    As for Gaza, well that’s what happens when you use Islamic extremists to divide the Palestinian Authority as Israel did.

    One thing is for certain. If conditions do not improve in the West Bank, the only winner will be hamas.

    You would have to be deluded to think you can keep a population under occupation ad infinitum while building and protecting settlements all for the sake of some religiously justified lebensraum.

    Btw you keep repeating this mantra that Palestinians want to destroy Israel. That simply isn’t the case.

    Let’s not forget who killed Rabin and why.

  • Bones

    You mean the Arabs didn’t want to serve under a Jewish state.

    Who can blame them. I wouldn’t want to either.

    They had no say in it and it was forced on them.

    Your anti Palestinian propaganda doesn’t wash with me.

    I know Palestinians living on the West Bank. They are not the war mongers you tried to make them out to be.

    They bitterly hate the occupation.

  • Notorious

    Serve under a Jewish state? You mean live in a pluralistic democracy? Do you know anything about Israel? I know Palestinians and Israeli Arabs too. I’ve lived in Israel and half of my family lives there. Nothing was forced on them, they’re free to move to Jordan or any oppressive Arab state they want to. Or they can live as civilized human beings in a progressive modern democracy with one of the highest living standards in the world. Anti-Palestinian Propaganda? You mean THEIR music videos and children’s shows and cartoons? THEIR newspapers and Facebook pages? THEIR violent protests that harass Jews (including those not involved in Israel)? No propaganda is needed when you’re dealing with a culture that teaches its children to be martyrs from birth.

    They bitterly hate the occupation while living more comfortably and prospering more than most of their neighbors. They’re miserable while shopping at their first-class malls and living with more religious freedom than any non-Muslims in the Muslim world.

    My girlfriend is a Christian Syrian and I can tell you she despises Islam and its influences, as well as the Palestinian “cause.” And she fully empathizes with Israel because she actually LIVED in an Arab Muslim country her entire life.

  • Notorious

    Really? Because Zionism also affected the other European divisions in the region? They also divided up Iraq and Syria and Egypt and so on? Yes, you have on example of a British official who sympathized with the Jews. You’re forgetting the British who armed and trained the Arabs, who threatened to intervene on behalf of the Arabs in the Israeli-Arab War (in which Israel was literally fighting for its life)?

    The British were ambivalent idiots in the whole process. They limited Jewish immigration to the region DURING the Holocaust. There had already been established Jewish communities there for generations by then.

    Judaism would have certainly survived were it not for Islam. What are you talking about? Jews in Christian Europe moved around from country to country due to various oppressive factors, yes, but they were not going extinct. Jews lived in Arab countries as second class citizens, worse off than they were in most of Europe, until 1948. And beginning in the 1930’s, the Arabs welcomed Nazi propaganda willingly.

    A large remnant in Iran? You mean a tiny fraction of a once-large and poor population that lived in squalor, the present-day remains of which is composed of elderly people who don’t want to learn a new language?

    Yes, Israel is responsible for Hamas just like the US is responsible for ISIS, right? It’s always everybody else’s fault except for the people who actually do the things and support those actions.

    Conditions in the West Bank WOULD improve and WOULD be better were it not for the various Intifadas (past and present) that are not only counter-productive, but just plain stupid. Seriously, how removed are you from the reality of the situation?

    The “occupation” is a defensive measure, not an offensive one. And the guys who killed Rabin (a figure who HAD strong support at the time, though who knows what would have happened had his policies been enacted) killed him because they felt he was going to compromise the safety of millions of Israelis, and that his plan would ultimately lead to hundreds, if not thousands, of Jewish deaths.

  • Bones

    We know the Zionists didn’t like the Brits. That’s why they kidnapped and tortured their soldiers and assassinated their officials. And terrorism won. And it’s also why groups like the Stern Gang sought an alliance with Hitler.

    The simple fact is Lord Balfour, of the Balfour Declaration, and British PM Lloyd George were ardent Christian Zionists, who sort to establish a Jewish state in Palestine. Balfour wrote:

    “in Palestine we do not propose to even go through the form of consulting the wishes o the present inhabitants of the country….Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import that the desires and prejudices of 700 000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land”.

    As for Islam – yet again you show yourself as just spouting propaganda

    So, what did the Muslims do for the Jews?

    By David J Wasserstein

    “Had Islam not come along, the conflict with Persia would have continued. The separation between western Judaism, that of Christendom, and Babylonian Judaism, that of Mesopotamia, would have intensified. Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance in many areas. And Jewry in the east would have become just another oriental cult.

    But this was all prevented by the rise of Islam. The Islamic conquests of the seventh century changed the world, and did so with dramatic, wide-ranging and permanent effect for the Jews.”


    David J Wasserstein is the Eugene Greener Jr Professor of Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt University. This article is adapted from last week’s Jordan Lectures in Comparative Religion at the School of Oriental and African Studies.

    I’ll take the words of a scholar of Judaism over the claims of some ultra – nationalist who supports and justifies the assassination of their own leaders.

    And yeah Israel financed and supported Hamas

    How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

    Btw the intifadas are a response to oppression and occupation.

    But yeah, if you think indefinite occupation is going to solve anything than you are clearly deluded.

  • Notorious

    Distorting historical events to further your absurd narrative, how surprising. Of course Zionists didn’t like Britain, why would they? And you think the Arabs did?

    Lehi’s attempted collaboration with the Nazis was an effort to transport German Jews to British Palestine. In other words, they sought to SAVE lives (rescue refugees who would’ve been murdered). Meanwhile, Britain LIMITED Jewish immigration to Palestine at the time when it was most desperately needed. So you’re characterization of their actions is, at best, insensitive, and at worst, supportive of genocide. And in any case, when Lehi did do morally questionable or reprehensible things, it’s not like their views or actions represent all Zionists, they were one extremist faction.

    Whatever Lord Balfour may have said, the inhabitants were consulted and most Zionists tried to work with them. What’s more, Zionism dates back literally 3,000 years and large-scale Zionist activity was only suspended when it was entirely impracticable–and during most of that time the region was controlled by Muslim forces. Your romanticization of Islam and its role throughout history is laughable. On top of that, it was far more important than the small number of people who lived there at one point (and who would likely have moved elsewhere with little intervention considering how often the population of the region was changing). They were surrounded by similar peoples on all sides who, theoretically, should have welcomed and embraced their Arab brethren. Meanwhile, 14 million Jews were subject to regular and increasing persecution throughout most of the world–and had been subject to this for 1500 years–and had no nation in which they could take guaranteed refuge and be free from future persecution. The Arabs living in British Palestine did not identify as Palestinian, they identified as Arabs, just like the Arabs in Arabia, Egypt, and Syria.

    Spouting propaganda? Maybe you should watch just a few of the videos taken from actual Palestinian (and neighboring Muslim countries’) media. Or maybe you should talk to Christians living in Gaza or the West Bank or Syria (like my girlfriend’s family, who thankfully got out a couple years ago).



    It’s a wonder that the Christian populations in the West Bank and Gaza are disappearing quickly while the Muslim populations are growing at an unprecedented rate. Must be Israel’s “oppression” and have nothing to do with the ruling parties, right?

    Maybe you should also just read about the conditions and numerous massacres that Jews suffered under various Muslim rulers, long before the rise of Zionism, and which intensified dramatically due to Zionism–as though it’s justified to punish all Jews for the actions of some Jews (most of whom were from completely different communities that had been separated for centuries).

    “In the middle of the 19th century, J. J. Benjamin wrote about the life of Persian Jews: “…they are obliged to live in a separate part of town…; for they are considered as unclean creatures… Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt… For the same reason, they are prohibited to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans… If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him… unmercifully… If a Jew enters a shop for anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods… Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them… Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever please them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life… If… a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (Muharram)…, he is sure to be murdered.”


    ” The government meanwhile accomplished all it could toward the complete humiliation of the Jews. All non-believers—Magi, Jews, and Christians—were compelled by Al-Mutawakkil to wear a badge; their places of worship were confiscated and turned into mosques; they were excluded from public offices, and compelled to pay to the caliph a tax of one-tenth of the value of their houses. The caliph Al-Mu’tadhel (892–902) ranked the Jews as “state servants.””


    “An account by Solomon Cohen dated January 1148 AD describes the Almohad conquests:

    ‘Abd al-Mumin … the leader of the Almohads after the death of Muhammad Ibn Tumart the Mahdi … captured Tlemcen [in the Maghreb] and killed all those who were in it, including the Jews, except those who embraced Islam. … [In Sijilmasa] One hundred and fifty persons were killed for clinging to their [Jewish] faith. … One hundred thousand persons were killed in Fez on that occasion, and 120,000 in Marrakesh. The Jews in all [Maghreb] localities [conquered] … groaned under the heavy yoke of the Almohads; many had been killed, many others converted; none were able to appear in public as Jews.’ ”


    Just a tiny taste of the oppression Jews faced while living under Muslim rule in various parts of the Muslim world at different points. Meanwhile, Jews were being welcomed by the kings of Poland, where they prospered like they hadn’t prospered in centuries. In fact, despite all of the persecution in Christian Europe, there’s a good reason that by the 18th century, the vast majority of Jews lived in Christian Europe and not the Muslim world despite the Ashkenazi community at one point being as small as 300 people.

    And while that article, the opinion of one scholar (just for the record my father is a Harvard professor of Jewish Studies, and one academic’s opinion is hardly a unanimous authority on any subject), at best illustrates that Islam overall helped Judaism as recently as 700 years ago, it doesn’t do much to account for the persecution or animosity over the remaining 700 years, long before the rise of modern Zionism.

    When did I support or even justify the assassination of Rabin? I simply told you why the assassins did what they believed to be right, and I rightfully and rationally expressed skepticism toward his proposed plans.

    And Israel’s role in “creating Hamas” is not different from any major power’s role in playing one evil against another. The PLO was a far greater threat at the time, so what? Every country in power does this regarding their enemies when they have the upper hand. Did Israel elect Hamas to rule over Gaza? No, the Palestinians did that. Does Israel support Hamas and its actions today? No, the Palestinians do that.

    The intifadas were responses to conspiracy theories and incitements (or specific plans) for violence against Israeli civilians. And the intifadas significantly worsened the Palestinians’ quality of life. I lived in Israel before the Second Intifada and everything was completely different. You want to complain about checkpoints and unemployment? Maybe look at those bus and restaurant bombings.

    The Palestinians are not just guilty of explicit terrorism (they also enthusiastically and publicly celebrate terrorist attacks against the US and other Western nations), but they are guilty of comical stupidity if they think that violent resistance is or was ever going to win them anything positive.

    Is it not strange that Hamas declared 2014 a victory? What exactly does that say about their aspirations? Is it a wonder that the PA rewards Palestinians who kill Israeli civilians? Or spew obscene conspiracy theories every chance they get? What does that say about their intent to cooperate and engage in meaningful dialogue.?

    Palestinians and their supporters (or maybe more accurately, Israel’s opponents) are deluded in thinking that violence, which has not once helped their “cause” over the past 70 years, is going to make any progress on their behalf. But while they shop in their brand new malls, dine in fancy restaurants, and spend their humanitarian aid on mansions or attack tunnels, they can keep complaining like spoiled children. See how far it gets them.

  • Toni Segarra

    Life is a struggle of all against all for survive, succeed and get what we
    want and need, violence can be a tool to achieve this.

    One cannot force anyone to make it non-violent; Since, in this Act of
    force, one is already within the scope of -division, conflict- violence. so,
    that attitude would make no sense or meaning real, would be all nonsense.


    Its actually a question of a lack of Biblical knowledge which drove so many arab christians to make a wrong choice of not welcoming the beginning of Aliyah to the Jews coming back. All is not white and black in our own personal lives. Most Palestinians Christians especially of the Greek Orthodox background became the most satanic elements of the Palestinian movement. A christian does not think of bombing innocent civilians if he has been wronged also. This does not come naturally.

    Then why have the Greek Orthodox members knowing how under Systematic Islamic Caliphates especially the Turks who have engaged in genocide of so many of them NOT nursed a grudge against Yasser Arafat’s policy of filling most the the Jewish Christian cities of Israel WITH MUSLIMS. Changing the demograpics is a WILY ISLAMIC plan since the Treaty of Hudayybiyyah. Who is more likely to REPLACE YOU a Christian a MUSLIM or a JEW?


    What does this term Palestine mean? Who renamed Israel Palestine? The original Palestinians were they Syropheonican uncircumcized sea faring greeks or circumcized arabs? Were Arab Christians so brain washed into Dhimmitude by Majority Muslims that they became brainless PAWNS unwittingingly for satan to help Islamists take over the Holy Heights of God in the name of a false God Allah?

  • Bones

    You’re an idiot.

    Satan has inspired Christians like you into supporting the oppression of their Arab Christian brothers and sisters under the guise of nationalism.

  • Bones

    Funny that Arab Christians and churches have been in the Middle East for thousands of years. They obviously knew more about you.

    It had nothing to do with a lack of Bible knowledge at all.

    It is you who has a lack of bible knowledge and has twisted it into supporting a secular state and its apartheid policies.

    Arab Christians have been and are being driven out by apartheid policies of a secular government which you support.

    And yeah I know Arabs who have been driven out of their homes by Israelis at gunpoint while you cheer them on..

  • Peter Byl

    Check out “With God on Our Side” on youtube.

  • Blake

    Absolutely Christians stand with the oppressed, not the oppressors

  • Blake

    When was it called ‘israel’ then boer seun? You are a racist afrikaner and no doubt your ancestors supported the nazis in WW2 (being South African I would know that)

  • Blake

    They are the very first Christians actually and would know Christianity far better than you. White European zionists have ZERO legal moral or ethical right to their land at their expense.

  • Charlton Wilson

    I was only going to read the comments, but now I’m REALLY REALLY REALLY curious, are you naturally stupid or do you have to practise at it? :/

    [PS. This is not an ‘ad hominem’]

  • Darwin Dissenters

    Christian Zionists spend a lot of time deconstructing the church – arguing that the Church cannot be the true Israel of God, and to argue that it is (what they falsely call replacement theology), is anti-Semitic. In that sense it is anti-Christian.

  • stevejfgb

    Christy Anastas is a Christian law student from Bethlehem (now living in England) whose family lived by the wall near Rachel’s tomb and Banksy’s hotel. It is worth listening to a talk that she gave about three years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ-Eihw7jqU)
    or a short extract from it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9dRCDTJIzM).

  • stevejfgb

    Palestinians: The Nightmare of Christians

  • stevejfgb

    Christians in the Arab world are suffering from persecution, but they are thriving in Israel and have thrived there, and their population has increased, for many decades. They also thrived in the West Bank and their population continued to increase there too until after the Oslo Accords. Since then the Christians in those areas under the control of the Palestine Authority, especially those in Bethlehem (in Area A) have suffered from persecution by Palestinian gangsters. The experience of the Anastas family of Bethlehem is described well in Christy’s presentation (videos below).

  • stevejfgb

    Yes Arabs can buy land in Jewish majority cities.

    The Supreme Court, sitting as a High Court of Justice, ruled in H.C.J 6698/95 Ka’adan v. The Israel Lands Administration (08.03.2000) that in principle, the allocation of State land on the basis of any discriminatory criteria was unacceptable.

    The Supreme Court held that the State may not allocate land to the Jewish Agency knowing that the Agency will only permit Jews to use the land, saying that where one may not discriminate directly, one may not discriminate indirectly. If the State, through its own actions, may not discriminate on the basis of religion or nationality, it may not facilitate such
    discrimination by a third party.

    Source: UN CERD/C/471/Add.2 1st September 2005