Leading pastor of the Duggars’ fundamentalist denomination: “Only psychos feel ‘abused.'”

Leading pastor of the Duggars’ fundamentalist denomination: “Only psychos feel ‘abused.'” May 29, 2015

Screen Shot 2015-05-29 at 7.01.48 PM (A version of this post was originally published here in March of 2013. I’m revisiting it now because I’m hearing from so many people wanting to better understand the mindset of Independent Fundamental Baptists [IFB]—the denomination to which the Duggars belong. This might help a little with that.)

Above is “Dr.” Marc Monte, lead pastor of Indiana’s Faith Baptist Avon, an (IFB) church. (The quote marks around “Dr.” are because Monte is a doctor like I’m an astrophysicist. He has nothing but one of those “honorific” faux-doctorate degrees that IFB leaders hand out to each other like little boys playing Now you knight me!—except, of course, these pretentious potentates then use their fraudulent titles to bolster the authority they wield over their churches with such impunity. Interesting, isn’t it, how leaders so passionate about remaining “separate from the world” at the same time so avidly co-opt the signifiers of power from that world—such as the title Doctor?)

Mr. Monte is a 1989 graduate of Bob Jones University, where he was awarded his B.A. in (waiiiiiiit for it) “Bible.” Bob Jones University is America’s leading IFB institution.

On their blog the Duggars have said that, for their homeschooling needs, they use curricula published by Bob Jones University, which is hardly surprising:

Screen Shot 2015-05-29 at 5.13.16 PM
Bob Jones University is where the young woman whose story I shared in A Christianity to Make Satan Proud learned just how organically evil the IFB is.

Toward the end of last month [being Feb 2013], the good people at BJU News sent out a few tweets about the investigation of BJU for endemic sexual abuse currently being spearheaded by G.R.A.C.E., which stands for Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment. (That name sets my teeth on edge, since it suggests a difference between a “Godly” response and the right response to abuse.) By way of replying, “Dr.” Monte tweeted this:

Screen Shot 2013-03-08 at 5.05.42 PM

Besides that they are “psychos,” Pastor Monte wants victims of abuse to know that persisting in their belief that they are, in fact, victims of abuse renders them abject failures as both people and Christians:

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And should any victims of abuse employ the blessedly democratic Internet to tell their story (such as people did here, here, herehere, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here), they should know that:

Screen Shot 2013-03-08 at 3.51.58 PM

And, finally, women should never forget God’s intention for them (and their hair):

Screen Shot 2013-03-08 at 3.37.51 PM

So, to recap these fundamental beliefs held by “Dr.” Monte: No sane person is ever abused, victims of abuse should tell their story to no one but the police, and God wants women to wear the proper hairstyle and be submissive.

And that, right there, is as Independent Fundamental Baptists as you can get.

Subsequent to his Tweets above, an apparently inspired “Dr.” Monte also Tweeted:

Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 8.55.57 AM

Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 8.55.47 AM

Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 8.55.23 AM

And here’s a Tweet “Dr.” Monte sent out one month before the Duggar abuse story broke:

Screen Shot 2015-05-29 at 7.24.48 PM

Again: this is perfectly IFB.

This is from me: Six Things to Know About Sexual Abuse and Forgiveness.

"REALLY?!?! Read about Bedlam,, Nelly Bly, Wiilowbrook, the Texas psych hospital fight club."

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  • SonjaFaithLund

    I read on Defeating the Dragons that Bill Gothard used to insist that the most “Godly” way for a woman to wear her hair was long with soft curls (not tighter curls though, and certainly not kinky coils–that’s not “Christ-like”).

    There’s a lot that upsets me about IFB, but for some reason this group of middle-aged powerful men dictating how women should style their hair just creeps me out that extra bit.

  • Sonja Lund, who wrote for us the poem God with me still. (For my teachers.) Good to hear from you, Sonja!

  • SonjaFaithLund

    Thanks, John! I’ve been lurking around. 🙂

  • I should lurk more. I don’t spend enough time lurking. I skulk a lot, but it’s really not the same thing. It’s noisier, for one.

  • Only psychos feel “abused”.

    Since many fundamental evangelical Christians feel that they are being abused by the government and many so called freethinkers, is this an admission that the conservative Christians are “psychos?”

  • The Duggars are spokes-people for the Bill Gothard homeschool organization. Gothard is under investigation for multiple accusations of sexual misconduct with minors. This is how Gothard teaches people to counsel girls who have been sexually abused. It’s infuriating and criminal.

    Micah Murray has written a compelling first person account of his experience with the Gothard organization.

    And another article on the influence of Gothard on the Duggar family.

  • For me, skulking leaves that messy, slug-like trail. Not sure if you’ve had that same experience.

  • Elsa

    I just read your poem, Sonja. I love everything about it, from your picture, through the poem, and into your bio. All of it’s beautiful.

  • Elsa

    I imagine he probably has a bible verse to back that up. Forsooth!

  • I find that chart ^^ above in no way helpful to counseling sexually abused children or those who have been sexually assaulted. I mean, the first thing I would do to counsel those is for them to see that nothing they did caused them to be assaulted in that way. Working on the guilt and/or lingering shame frees that person to look into the pain and heal…

    The chart above ^^ is useless because it works on the premise that sexual assault is an attack on the body only, instead of an attack on the whole person…

    Thanks for that link to Micah Murray. It is an eyeopener!

  • In that world, male reaction to women is the woman’s responsibility. It’s an illustration of victim blaming. I find numbers four and six especially abusive.

  • Absolutely!

  • Elmore

    Dude looks like a walking corn dog.

  • HAR! Great one!

  • 1918, the year before women got the vote, just called … it wants its knucklehead thinking and its haircut back.

  • Jerry Lynch

    Yes! That little detail tells the big story of not only how oppressed the women are but how they are viewed as just witless servants there to clean up spills, do the dishes, bear children, and keep quiet. The profound ugliness (besides a strong hint of racism) in how a woman should wear her hair to be pleasing and proper for the male makes me ill.

  • Jerry Lynch

    I am ill. Seriously! This is horrific. I had no idea how truly vile this denomination–hold on that, this fiendish cult was in their beliefs. From a recent article I read, how the term in the Bible for helpmate is rightly defined is as “confidant and counselor,” not trained monkey. The enormity of the “doctor’s” blindness and rank narcissism is stunning to behold. What is the superlative for smug? It brought to mind that smarmy look on Jerry Falwell’s face, that pharisaic pomposity of self-righteousness.

    Can their beliefs be held as hate crimes?

  • This man is simply evil. There’s no other word that I can think of right now that fits him better. He’s simply… evil.

  • David Cohen

    If my wife ever referred to me as “hubby” it would take a miracle from Heaven to keep me from becoming nauseous.

    Can I get an “amen” brothers?

  • Kathleen Margaret Schwab

    Is it my imagination, or is Dr Marc actively trying to goad women?

  • paganheart

    Can anyone say “fetish”?

  • SonjaFaithLund

    Thanks, Elsa!

  • SonjaFaithLund

    Something hella creepy about it, that’s for sure.

  • paganheart

    “Can their beliefs be held as hate crimes?”

    Not yet, but maybe it is time they were. I for one am really, really, really tired of so-called “Christians” doing really heinous things, or excusing (and enabling) the actions of fellow Christians who do heinous things, and then hiding behind the “because religious freedom” or “because First Amendment” arguments.

    I really question the wisdom of allowing religious leaders to counsel people who are victims of sexual assault, or any kind of mental or emotional health issue for that matter. I say that as someone who was basically told to “read the Bible and pray more” by a church pastor my parents sent me to for counseling, when I was an extremely depressed teenager who was cutting myself to deal with the pain. It wasn’t until I got to college that I got the correct diagnosis, treatment, and real, professional counseling that I needed.

    I would love to see laws requiring all clergy and religious leaders to refer anyone with mental and emotional health issues to the appropriate medical and secular authorities for counseling and treatment, or face being charged with practicing therapy without a license! If they want to be “counselors” themselves, they should have to go through the same education and licensing requirements that any secular therapist, psychologist, etc. has to. I would allow perhaps that religious leaders could counsel alongside or in addition to professional therapy, but they cannot be the sole source of help. And frankly I don’t want to hear any “but but but First Amendment!!” arguments. I’m sick of it.

  • HAR! Good one, Mike!

  • SonjaFaithLund

    And it’s not just grown women, it’s girls too. *shudder*

  • Brilliant!

  • spiritubrianus

    What makes me so depressed about guys like this is that legions of people hang on their every word. These people have pretty much taken over one of our great political parties so they now have a public platform for their childish and dangerous views. BTW, John, up until I discovered this blog, I have found the response of moderate and progressive Christians to these fundamentalists pretty tepid. Shame on us that we have allowed these religious fanatics to articulate the ‘Christian position’ on the great issues facing our society.

  • Matt

    Unfortunately, the title “therapist/counselor” is not regulated like, for example, the title of “nurse” or “doctor.” To practice medicine or nursing without a license is a felony. At best, an unqualified person attempting to dispense therapy can be charged with fraud. The waters are further muddied because pastoral care is part of a clergyperson’s job duties, and a big reason people go to (legitimate, healthy) pastors first is because it doesn’t carry the stigma of “crazy.” Drawing a crisp line between that and “therapy” is nearly impossible. To make things even more difficult, not every clergy member is a mandated reporter, or legally obligated to go to the authorities with allegations of abuse/neglect. So far in 27 states they are, but there are of course 50 in the US.

    All of this is difficult enough in terms of stopping “mainstream” clergy, but it does nothing to stop IFB pastors, who face no difficulty from the threat of having their worthless “credentials” stripped by allegations of misconduct or fraud. They can simply move to another church. That is the true goal and purpose of their extremely insular communities, whatever else they might say about it: All of the protections and benefits of “the world” with none of the attending responsibilities.

  • louismoreaugottschalk

    I think it’s not him it’s like a virus or disease running a program. He is a zombie. A spiritual wickedess in high places will take over a community,region, nation & become a ‘stronghold’ I tnink. Denial that there is any abuse happenining atall is a hallmark. Next blogger I wannu read will take up the prob of ‘spiritual warfare’, discernment of spirits, validation of spiritual gifts etc.

  • louismoreaugottschalk

    Yuh, take a look at some photos of famous nazi leaders. They had that depraved look too.

  • Pavitrasarala

    Oh no, it’s not just you. If my child wasn’t in the house, I’d be letting loose a string of profanity like you wouldn’t believe.

  • Baby_Raptor

    I thought one of the big things about Christianity was making non-believers want to convert.

    This makes me wonder why, if god exists, he doesn’t smite his followers for dragging his name through the mud.

  • Nathan Aldana

    I think he’s trying to actively goad anyone who doesnt already follow him.

  • Gianni Kensenhuis

    Yup my thoughts exactly… proof God doesn’t exist

  • Meghan Minor

    Here you go

  • Well, now, let’s be fair. That some people are assholes and/or not entirely swift is hardly proof that God doesn’t exist.

  • paganheart

    Lot of truths in what you say *sigh* but I can dream….

    In general, I think we need to improve mental health services of all kinds in the US, including better regulation and licensing of therapists. I feel very, very grateful to have been able to get the services I needed (and still need), many others don’t get help until it is almost too late, if they even get help at all. (Like a former neighbor of mine who spent years fighting insurance companies and the state to get her schizophrenic son the expensive anti-psychotic drugs he needed; it wasn’t until he was jailed for setting several fires that he finally got them.) At the very least, we can lobby to make clergy of all faiths mandatory reporters in all 50 states.(Honestly I did not know this was not law in all states already; that is horrifying.)

    I hope that if there is one good thing that comes out of the Duggar scandal, it is that an uncomfortably bright and very unflattering light is now shining on the IFB and the Quiverfull movement, a light that will result in change for the better. We’ve already seen this to a degree with the Roman Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandals; change is coming (though it is coming very, very slowly) and places like Ireland are throwing off the yoke of the church entirely. The leaders of the Jehova’s Witnesses are begging their members to donate more money because the church is in dire financial straits, and that is due in no small part to multiple lawsuits being filed by former JWs whose sexual abuse was covered up by the church. And I recently read where there are signs that Scientology may be in financial trouble, because of the very unflattering documenatry and other negative press they have received recently.

    We need to increase and spread the pressure on the IFB and on the leaders of the Quiverfull movement, so that more abuse victims will escape and come forward and tell their stories (and we all know that there are probably thousands out there.) Maybe if that happens, and more people start to see the ugliness of all fundamentalist Christianity in general, some of the changes I dream of will finally be made.

  • I suppose that could be true. It’s such a crazy world we live in, as much as it’s also still full of beauty and wonder.

  • louismoreaugottschalk

    Yes! More beauty & wonder than evil could ever distroy I think. Do you like reading science fiction? C.s. Lewis wrote a trilogy the second in the series, ‘perelandra’ gives a particularly graphic depiction in literature of a professor who progressivly became evil in a context of traveling to a planet that, as yet, had never known evil. These novels were written during ww2 when the nazis were bombing uk in nightly raids called blitzkreig.

  • The term ‘helpmate’ isn’t even a term – it originated from the old English translated phrase “a help meet for him”, where ‘meet’ meant equal to. (as in how ‘to meet one’s standards’ is to equal them.) Somehow that got truncated to ‘helpmeet’, and then ‘helpmate’, and used to support the idea of women as subservient and created for the purpose of helping men; when it reality it was just a poor understanding of English.

  • Brandon Roberts

    honestly i’d really love to see him just start spiting morons like this with fireballs

  • Brandon Roberts

    i have no words

  • Jerry Lynch

    Ordinary Christianity is vapid and jaundiced. The forbidden fruit is not just for potluck but an everyday-pack-your-lunch fare.Lock-step both right movement and dance. It makes me ill.

  • Lark62

    Nope, it’s him. The religious teaching is like a virus, but people like this know how to use religion to feed a need to dominate others.

  • Lark62

    Exactly. Got hard had a fetish for that hair style so he used his authority to essentially make it mandatory.

  • Fred the Barbarian

    It’s Jesus, not Super Mario. So it’ll be blue lightning shooting from his eyes.

  • Andy

    For a lot of them, sure. Most of us on here don’t care what you believe as long as you’re respectful of others. Mocking or judging others for their beliefs may get you banned, no matter what your beliefs are.

  • Andy

    Yes. I absolutely hate that word.

  • Andy

    Does anybody ever tell you “Swiper, no swiping!”?

  • Paul Julian Gould

    There are an awful lot of doctrines and dogma among the American Evangelical Protestants of the KJV crowd that were formed from a 20th and 21st century misreading and misunderstanding of a particular verse or verses in 1611 and 1769 English usage.

  • Paul Julian Gould

    (3 John 2-3, for example)

  • Everytime I read these things coming to light, I think of that scene in the Wizard of Oz when Toto, bored by all the whole adventure, goes exploring on his own, and discovers activity behind a curtain. Ripping away the curtain shows the Wizard to be an utter fraud, who has been manipulating Dorothy and her friends into doing his dirty work for him.
    By keeping things under wraps, hidden, secret, we perpetuate the myth that there is nothing wrong here, so we can either ignore the real problems, or have others do our dirty work for us. Hurrah for all the Toto’s out there. We need more who are not interested in the things they see before them, and decide to explore what is happening behind the curtain.

  • Sa Say

    Also, a legitimate, healthy pastor who doesn’t have degrees that would allow him to actual be a therapist will also honestly help a parishioner decide when they need professional help and not pastoral help. In contrast, these people don’t believe in professional help AT ALL–they erroneously believe they ARE the professionals because they profess “christ”.

  • Sa Say

    Result of defrauding? I had heard they blamed the victims, but I’ve never seen it in print like this.

  • Brandon Roberts

    yes that’d be awesome

  • louismoreaugottschalk

    Seems like you know this type. Have you been injured by such?

  • Lark62

    No, fortunately. I spent a long time as an evangelical christian although not this nutty.

    I have sympathy for the young teen stuck in a world where every healthy outlet for sexual feelings is blocked. I have no sympathy for the adult who is apparently unconcerned about the harm he did. I despise the adult who falsely accuses others of perversion.

    I also despise the sick patriarchal teaching that simultaneously gives women no authority yet holds them responsible for the sexual actions of men.

    I know that this does not represent all christians. I’m always glad when other christians speak out because it carries more weight.

  • louismoreaugottschalk

    ‘dispise’? do ya think any of us rabbits gitzta git the big pix like as in; ‘forgive them father they know not what they do’ quite the stetch in tolerance yeah?

  • Blank Ron

    It’s not meant to be helpful, not in that way. It’s designed to sweep the worst sort of abuse under whatever rug is handy and solidify the power structure it’s designed to perpetuate.

  • Father Thyme

    Jesus should try some of that Harry Potter sorcery like Paul did.

    St. Paul engaged in evil sorcery as described in Acts 13:6-12. (Sorcery is here used in the same way as Exodus 22:18: a person saying magical words or performing magical rituals in order to harm or kill another person). During his journey to Cyprus, St. Paul met Bar-Jesus, who was an attendant of the Roman proconsul Sergius Paulus. He had a conflict with cursed Bar-Jesus, saying:

    “You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind, and for a time you will be unable to see the light of the sun. (NIV)

    Bar-Jesus heard the curse and immediately was blinded.

    Occultic techniques in the Christian Scriptures

  • RidgewayGirl

    Yes, but if you’re upset in any way it just proves you’re a feminist. Which is the worst thing a woman can be, apparently.

  • Don Lowery

    True…but when these people bring being an asshole to an art form…not sure if God has a sense of humor or is testing how fast he can vacate these “churches” with people not wanting anything to do with Jesus.

  • Kathleen Margaret Schwab

    After college my husband and I found our way into an insanely authoritarian church. We were naive. We were blindsided by their adherence to the no birth control thing, mainly because it just didn’t make sense. After things went south, the pastor yelled at us, “You two just want to send all your kids to college!” It was one of those situations where i just stared blankly because he said it as if wanting higher education was something akin to strangling kittens.

  • Guy Norred

    I almost wish I didn’t believe you.

  • MikeHaas82

    Help me out here. I usually have a lot of sympathy for women who have escaped Quiverfull with their sanity but in the case of the woman to whose story I’ve linked to below, I’m having some difficulty.

    There’s a certain amount of personal stupidity – I’m sorry, but I can’t be “kind” about it in this case, first and foremost for believing that Quiverfull is “hard” on men. Bullcookies. Quiverfull is a paradise for alpha-male predators who can drop the act of civility and be themselves. Because she willingly chose a brand of Christianity that is full of ignorance and has a legacy of abusive behavior toward women and children. Because she found other churches to be “too liberal.” got a taste of real, hardcore Christian Conservatism and stubbed her poor little toe. Because she could have educated herself. Because she’s a ninny. I’m basically agnostic – I didn’t come to agnosticism in a sudden flash. Given my upbringing, it took years and involved a lot of soul-searching. To see her turn from Christian Conservatism to atheism, “overnight” as it were, is just horribly dishonest. Its one thing to have had the misfortune to have been raised in that arena, have it ruin your belief system and come to agnosticism or atheism through personal epiphany and revelation. Her story…it simply makes me gag and doesn’t contain an ounce of that personal responsibility Conservatives rave about.


  • RidgewayGirl

    Yeah, I was told not to allow myself to be educated out of my faith. It’s not a very robust faith that has to depend on ignorance and isolation.

  • tsig

    They are assholes in god’s name so either god likes assholes or doesn’t exist.

  • LoneWolf343

    It’s easy to believe in something when everybody around you tells you the believe in it.

  • LoneWolf343

    Man, I wish the “fighting words” legal theory that popped up during one of the many Westboro legal battles had survived, because that just screams “Beat the crap out of me to make a point.”

  • MikeHaas82

    Is it? How so? I’d say rather, its easy to believe in something if you were raised to believe in it. Its easier to keep you from questioning it if you’re prevented from being exposed to other points of view.

  • LoneWolf343

    It’s referred to as the “echo chamber.” Everything you say is merely agreed with, and is never challenged. It’s easy to start believing strange things when you don’t have an outside world that you have to acknowledge.

  • MikeHaas82

    Ok – thanks for the added context and I agree. It doesn’t however, explain why people outside of Patriarchal movements such as Quiverfull, get sucked in, especially women. Is it possible they really don’t understand that to succumb to Quiverfull is to lose their basic human rights?

  • LoneWolf343

    That’s…a little beyond me. My guess is that people want to belong somewhere and that cults exploit this desire.

  • MikeHaas82

    No truer words, my friend.

  • Baby_Raptor

    I don’t work for imaginary beings and if I did there’s a several mile long list I’d choose to be employed by before I’d go for Christianity’s god. Further, it is not my job to smite god’s followers for being jerks, nor do I have the capability. That’s all on him.

  • asmondius

    If you work for a corporation you work for beings you will never personally see.

  • Nathan Aldana

    said beings regularly prove their existence via giving you a paycheck though.

  • Baby_Raptor

    A) That’s not at all true. You could work in the company’s main headquarters, you could work directly for the bosses, you could meet them at a company get-together, you could meet them during a tour of the building, you could end up doing something spectacular that gets their attention and they decide they need to talk to you…B) A person existing that I will never personally meet still has infinitely more proof for their existence than god does. especially if they’re a bigiwg in a company. Birth certificate, SS number, all the necessary paperwork on their company, pictures, TV interviews, press conferences…Are you getting the idea?

  • Andy

    I’m not sure why he would think that’s an apt analogy.

  • Andy

    Yes! Definitely! You are so correct! Well done! I agree completely!

  • Betwixt-and-Between

    I was also warned about that. I got “of course you’re going to college, but don’t be one of those people who go off and lose your faith! You’re better than that.”

  • RidgewayGirl

    At least they were consistently awful everywhere?

  • Betwixt-and-Between

    I guess?

    The worst bit is that my parents, at least, were unthinkingly echoing the Things That Were Said. When I finally did leave, and tearfully confessed to mom, she didn’t understand at all why I thought she would think less of me.

  • Betwixt-and-Between

    BRB, gonna go cut all my hair off.

    I don’t want your Woman’s Glory.

  • RidgewayGirl

    I’ve noticed that with my mother as well. She toes the line on homosexuality, but really enjoyed chatting with her hairdresser and loved the gay character on Are You Being Served?

  • Betwixt-and-Between

    Yep. Also that. Plus the nagging feeling that the uncrossable line keeps getting redefined do that I’ve never done anything to cross it.

  • Linnea912

    That’s true. A lot of people who get sucked into cults are lonely, outsiders, often emotionally vulnerable, and/ or are looking for clear, simple answers to life’s most tangled questions. What they (unfortunately) don’t understand is that life often doesn’t HAVE clear answers: we all just have to muddle through the best way we know how. Cults totally exploit that, as well as the desire to belong.

    Also, don’t forget that cults are deeply and *deliberately* deceptive.

  • Magdalen

    How do you know God has not smited those who are against Him & His teachings? Seems obvious to me; continuing and rampant disease, mental illness, depravity, murder & mayhem, wars, slavery (both physical & spiritual), and the list goes on and on.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Let me know when something happens to this guy and I’ll reconsider my stance.

  • L.W. Dicker

    And then Jesus said,

    “Children, I have just witnessed Justin Bieber taking a shower. And I feel the need to confess to you that your beloved Savior’s cock got harder than a three year old Christmas fruitcake!

    Holy shit but I just couldn’t stop myself!!!! I wanted that sweet asshole more than Charlie Sheen wants a teenage whore with a crack pipe!!!

    And before you could say “Sean Hannity is a fag with a dick the size of a mosquito”, my Son of God cock shot a wad the size of Jerusalem!!

    And it felt goooooood!! And I mean God fucking damn good!!!

    So children, I can only hope that your mercy and forgiveness will be enough to wash away my terrible sin, and once again bring purity to my sinful, and regretful, pecker……………….Holy shit, is that Zac Efron running on the beach in a Speed-O!!!!???

    —–Jesus Christ, your horny Savior

    As told to Kirk Cameron

  • Chilling – “involve the police, not the Internet”, for two completely independent reasons:

    1. The Duggars didn’t involve the police, and when they did, a corrupt cop dropped it. It was only when it got on the Internet that anything actually changed.

    2. I’ve heard almost exactly the same line (“use the legal system, call an abuse hotline”) from Rachel Held Evans about Julie McMahon’s abuse allegations against Tony Jones. So it’s not just the IFB, it’s emergent/progressive leaders as well.
    And what happened with the police? Well, Tony is the ex-police chaplain, so you can guess how that went. And Julie is close to bankrupt from legal fees.

  • Julie

    Why does this make me very, very suspicious of the kind of “fun” that he had while in school? Sigh.

  • Very rarely, oddly enough!