Quoting Quiverfull: Children Do Not Resent New Babies?

Quoting Quiverfull: Children Do Not Resent New Babies? September 18, 2017

quotingquiverfullby Jill Rodrigues from Rodrigues Family Ministries – Rodrigues Baby #13 on the Way!

Editor’s note: These are friends of TLC’s the Duggar family. Another family that works as little as possible and begs for donations on their website and during their preaching trips. What struck me about this posting is everyone’s glee over the coming baby. In an unquoted part Jill claims that she does not force her children to be happy for another sibling, they just do it because they love the Lord and their family. Sorry, but I seriously doubt every single one of the children is thrilled by this news. It’s normal for a child to have at least a little bit of worry or anxiety about a change to the family dynamics by adding a new member. Why are reactions not perfectly over the top not allowed? Why all the emotional repression? Children should be allowed to have emotions that aren’t always positive.

Also, David and I are THRILLED beyond words that God has chosen to open my womb again and give us our 13th child (really 18th child due to me having 5 hard miscarriages). Is it easy raising so many children? NO….not easy- but VERY rewarding! When I saw the pregnancy test read “positive”, I looked toward Heaven and said “Thank You” to God TONS of times.

God’s Word tells us that children are an heritage of the Lord and the fruit of the womb is HIS reward. <3. Why would we EVER want to turn away a precious gift from God?

Honestly, I wish you could have seen our children’s reaction to the news. <3 There was screaming for joy, jumping, laughter and smiles! When we tell our children that we are expecting another sibling, it is LITERALLY the HAPPIEST time I almost EVER witness in our home!

Why? Doesn’t it mean one less “chicken leg” for them to eat? Perhaps one less frivoulous item that we can’t afford to buy for them? A Mama who will need lots of extra help during the “sick” months of my pregnancy? Yes…all of the above. But, if that is our focus in life…..a temporal moment of satisfaction, then I have failed in raising up a generation that focuses on the eternal. Another SOUL to raise up for the GLORY of God, is SO TOTALLY eternal!

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Aloha

    Why refuse a gift from God? Logical. But God gives other things besides human babies!

    He gives us puppies, kitties, free time, sleep, visits to the nature park, birth control pills, and IUDs. Lord, I thank you for all of these special gifts.

  • Aloha
  • katiehippie

    Why is chicken leg in quotes? Are they not really chicken legs?

  • Almost a chimp

    And hurricanes, cancers, droughts and famines, parasitic eye-eating worms, diseases, murders, child abuse, pain, misery, and so on, ad infinitum.
    We thank you, Lord, for your wonderful gifts. You seem to know just what we’re wishing for every time.

  • AnSettlesDown

    Probably off topic, but does their cover picture weird anyone else out? Why are the two oldest boys SO white (like tiny vampires)? Why is one girl stuck over on the boys side? Why do the littlest ones look so terrified? Why is there so much space between people on the boy side, while the girls are all squished together? It is just so strange.

  • Jennny

    Agree – and …one less chicken leg…’ good grief, they all look so gaunt, thin and unhealthy. I had a brief look at her blog, brief cos I think I’d have been sick if I’d read more…and they do look so pasty and sad, dad’s the exception, he looks as if he should lose a few pounds.

  • Aloha

    I was wondering if they’re undernourished. Some QF families are against government assistance. They may just be very poor and not getting enough to eat.

  • Friend

    I was troubled by the sequence, “Why? Doesn’t it mean one less ‘chicken leg’ for them to eat? Perhaps one less frivoulous item that we can’t afford to buy for them?”

    In most families I know, a chicken leg is an essential part of a child’s dinner. If this family doesn’t have enough food, the children will be harmed in more than one way.

    Also, “one less frivoulous [sic] item that we can’t afford” … hmm. I’m not sure that frivolous items are the only thing missing.

    Hoping that this mother does not try home schooling. Profound issues with logic as well as spelling and compassion.

  • Friend

    Yeah, I’m thinking he gets most of the “chicken legs.”

  • Jennny

    Seriously, I used to teach in the poorest square mile in Wales, if kids came to school looking as undernourished as these do, we were on the phone to Child Protection Services right away!

  • AnSettlesDown

    Very possible, but that doesn’t explain the odd body positioning/lineup.

  • SAO

    Good Grief! In two comments, we’ve managed to both fat-shame and skinny-shame. I swear, if you aren’t a piggy porker, you’re an undernourished mutt.

    I have a teen boy who is skinny with naturally pale skin. He’s the right BMI for his height and not at all malnourished. Just 6’2″ and not filled out yet with Northern European ancestry.

  • SAO

    My observation is that kids like the idea of babies (although the kids I’ve known don’t have as much experience with babies as those kids do), it’s when they absorb parental time (this might be a plus in a highly controlling sect) or want to share toys or get in the way. My kids didn’t have any rivalry until the younger was 1.5 and started to express opinions, like he wanted to keep right on playing with that toy, not let his sister take it.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    OK. You beat your children for crying or showing any form of dissatisfaction or dissent, and when you tell them how thrilled you are at yet another baby they all smile and say “Yes mummy, we are thrilled too”. Have you not considered the possibility that their reaction might not be 100% genuine and spontaneous?

  • Friend

    It’s wonderful that schools in Wales are watching out for child malnutrition and taking action in that way.

    Unfortunately, here it would probably cause some QF families to home school, out of paranoia that the Ebil Gummint would meddle with the parents’ God-given rights and quite possibly remove the children to socialist reeducation camps. And I’m not kidding… Here’s one of several pieces on this paranoia on Love Joy Feminism:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/09/hslda-homeschooling-families-are-constantly-almost-never-reported-to-cps.html

  • Almost a chimp

    Young children tend towards jealousy or resentment towards new additions largely because they lose a lot of the attention of the parents and see it directed at the new baby.

    However, in such abnormally large families as this one, that problem might indeed not be as acute as in a smaller, regular sized family. For one thing, with so many children the parents cannot possibly devote lots of attention on just one or two of the youngest so there won’t be such a sense of loss for them (although there could have been jealousy problems when the family was smaller).

    Another, and I feel more important factor in play is that the girls are raised to be mothers, so in effect every baby has half a dozen mothers-in-training to attend to them, so losing the attention of the matriarch won’t necessarily be such a blow with so many ‘mini-mums’ to turn to.
    So, there is a good possibility that there is very little jealousy towards new babies from the multitude of other children in this family.
    Whether their reaction to the news of yet another addition was quite as spontaneous and joyous as stated, or more a perfunctory, robotic recitation of what they knew was expected of them, as Iain Lovejoy suggested in his comment above, is not so certain.
    My money’s on the latter.

  • Nightshade

    Do they truly have no resentment, or are they just not allowed to show any resentment? There’s a pretty wide range of normal reactions children have when they hear this kind of news, and it’s usually somewhere between ‘new playmate? Wonderful, thanks so much, Mom and Dad’ and ‘another one? Noooooo!’ If over the next weeks, months, and first few years a child never expresses any negative emotion to a new sibling, then I’d be worried that a heck of a lot is being suppressed.

  • Almost a chimp

    Pointing out that the entire family except for one look malnourished is not ‘skinny-shaming’. In a family of that size, if they were being fed sufficiently there should be some variety of body shapes, some tending toward lean certainly, but others having noticeably larger frames.
    Further, pointing out that the only one of fifteen people who is obviously well-fed is the father isn’t fat-shaming; it’s like showing that in a village of paupers, the one wealthy man doesn’t care to share.
    Or is that ‘wealth-shaming’.

    Why can’t anybody take honest, fair criticism today without claiming victim status?

  • Mel

    The Rodrigues’ are fame-hounds who name-drop in an amazingly ham-handed manner on their blog.

    I don’t know if their kids are excited or terrified of a new baby; my concern is that the mom will marry her oldest daughter off to J ( fill in a male name) Duggar to get a smidgen of fame for herself.

  • Jennny

    Apologies. I take your point and if you knew me, would know I’m the last person to ever fat or skinny-shame anyone. It just made the training I had and the number of cases I saw of undernourished kids alert my suspicions. I guess I was projecting that these parents boast of how wonderfully the lord provides but hint at lack of enough food to go round….I can’t think of another family I’ve ever come across where all the kids are so very skinny…usually if you have several kids their sizes vary. Dad’s shape sticks out like a sore thumb by contrast.

  • Mel

    This is a family who packed 11 or 12 kids – including a tiny infant – into an RV for months because God told them to. (Here’s the post: http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=1248)

    After that kind of insanity, “Hey, mom’s pregnant again” seems fairly tame.

  • Almost a chimp

    In families such as these, suppresion of emotions is a feature rather than a bug.

  • Almost a chimp

    That’s just wrong in so many ways. If they transported livestock in such cramped conditions they’d be prosecuted for animal cruelty.

  • Mel

    This family has issues nevertheless. The mom flipped out when someone threw away between 1/8 and 1/4 a cup of ice cream because ice cream is a rare expensive treat. (http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=1248) Most of the grocery brands in my area run less than $5.00 for 8 servings and often as low as $1.66 for 8 servings.

    I’m not confident that the family is receiving anything like enough to eat on a regular basis – or perhaps not enough protein/fat.

  • Mel

    Livestock don’t have to sleep inside a cattle trailer, either. We’d put at most 8 cows in a trailer the size of an empty RV – and cows prefer having other cows to lean against for comfort.

  • therealcie

    It isn’t “victim status” when certain body types are ridiculed and condemned constantly. Also, it is possible to be both fat and food insecure. There is a high correlation between poverty and obesity.

  • therealcie

    It isn’t his shape that stands out (it is possible to be both fat and food insecure) but his pallor. He has a “healthy glow” about him, while the kids look pallid. I would wager that you’re correct that he gets adequate food while the family has to be more “conservative” with their intake.

  • Almost a chimp

    Also, having mixed-sex siblings of such an age range living and sleeping in such close proximity is very unsettling, especially considering the lack of realistic sex education that the kids get, and no social mixing with other kids outside of the cult.
    Repressed by their parents and religion or not, kids do develop sexual feelings and many will explore them. Many kids starved of parental affection will take it wherever it’s offered. When kids fit both of those categories, as these kids probably do, it’s inevitable that the two, sexual feelings and affection, become blurred.
    The whole Quiverful thing is a recipe for disaster, but that road trip was almost inviting trouble. I only hope that the kids, particularly the older ones, showed more sense than their undeserving, self-serving (because it’s all about them; the religion is just a platform) parents.
    Is it hoping too much that they grow up to be better people than them, too?

  • SAO

    His last name is Rodriquez and his wife is a blond. My take is that he’s naturally darker skinned than some of his kids.

  • Almost a chimp

    Yes, I know, but not every criticism is an issue of shaming. Sometimes it’s necessary. Highlighting potential malnutrition isn’t about shaming, it’s about potentially saving lives.

  • SAO

    Right, people send so many mixed signals. If your kid isn’t too skinny, he’s too fat.

    And I’m not convinced that you can adequately diagnose malnutrition based on that one photo. Sure, it’s possible that they are malnourished, but it’s also possible that some of the kids inherited their pale complexions from their mother (Dad might be Hispanic) and they are naturally thin.

  • Lizard

    At the very least, they should find a new photographer. This is straight-up amateurish.

  • Saraquill

    I can imagine refusing a gift from G-d if I can’t give it the care and respect it deserves.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Re: “…OK. You beat your children for crying or showing any form of dissatisfaction or dissent, and when you tell them how thrilled you are at yet another baby they all smile and say “Yes mummy, we are thrilled too”. Have you not considered the possibility that their reaction might not be 100% genuine and spontaneous?…”

    All the upvotes! When you punish children for displaying any unapproved emotion– or even failure to display mandated “happiness”– then you can’t cite your children as a source for how wonderful your life is. Your kids have no option but to proclaim themselves perfectly delighted at whatever new cockamamie life choice you’re thrusting on them.

  • Astrin Ymris

    When you know that in CPM families fathers are privileged above the women and children in all things– and when you have the mother making comments about “a few less chicken legs”– then the difference in BMI between Daddy and everyone else is worthy of comment.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I think they were trying to “balance” the kids on both sides of the parents. The odd spacing on the “male” side may partly be because the photographer’s standing slightly to one side rather than in the center… or perhaps because of a cultural belief that males should “own” more personal space than females. I don’t know if “mansprawling” is a CPM thing or not, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was.

    Or maybe they’re concerned that people might think their sons had Teh Gay if they were standing too close.

  • Mel

    I do think he has a deeper skin tone than most of his kids. His wife has a fairly pale skin tone and I think might have blue eyes – but her natural hair color is a medium brown like her two oldest sons and her two sisters who appear on her blog regularly.

    Cooking for 12 people out of an RV while traveling must be a nightmare.

  • Mel

    They do that for all of their professional family portraits if they are outdoors. See http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=1046 I have no idea why.

  • Chiropter

    Raising up another soul for the glory of God? I’m sure all the kids are delighted to be Jesus pawns instead of people.

  • Anonyme

    The setting is making my eye twitch. A stained wall and faded brick pavement are “blah” at best. The handwriting font doesn’t work either.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    If you read her blog, watch her videos and look at the photos it seems likely. They feed those kids minuscule portions.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Momma is busy shilling Plexus too. Which is ironic because evaluation by the FDA and other organizations shows Plexus can harm your kidneys if you are on it for a long stretch.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I see you’ve been reading them for awhile.I’ve tried not to mention them here because they will take whatever publicity they can get

  • Debbie Holt

    Amen! I receive these gifts with GREAT joy! ❤

  • Debbie Holt

    I wholeheartedly agree! There is NO way those 12 children are getting the attention and education they deserve. Google the Rodrigues family. All of those kids look sick and extremely malnourished.

  • Debbie Holt

    Sooooo VERY TRUE! Google the Rodrigues family. Those children, especially the younger ones, look sick and extremely malnourished.

  • Debbie Holt

    I completely agree! Those kids look sick & malnourished.

  • Debbie Holt

    Does anyone else find Jill’s comment regarding God opening her womb creepy??

  • Anonyme

    Yes, I’m sure all 12 children have no worries, anxiety and apprehension at all about another sibling. Laugh and smile, everyone! You wouldn’t want God to think you don’t appreciate this new gift!

    When I was five years old*, my sister, brother-in-law and their first baby came for one week, and I was (then) very jealous and resentful of my niece. I didn’t like the change in routine, the fuss made over her, and the fact that I had to change how I played with the baby around…God forbid I make a noise. And this was just a week. Of course, I eventually learned to love my niece, but I wasn’t expected to be all “OMG BABBBY!” right away.

  • Anonyme

    My first thought was, “God does c-sections now?” 😛

  • Almost a chimp

    I’ve just had a closer look at the photograph Aloha posted, and the look on the face of the smallest girl standing front right is absolutely priceless.
    Without yet seeing any other pictures of her or the rest of the the family I’d say that she will be the rebel. I actually fear for that little sweetheart, because if she’s as independently minded and as stubborn as she looks then she has a lot of suffering to come at the hands of her parents, as they won’t give up until they break her, either figuratively or literally.

  • Almost a chimp

    Hah! I was wondering how it could be that after having so many children, she still doesn’t know how babies are made, or even how wombs work.

    Here’s a quick lesson, Mrs. R.; God does not pop up inside you, open a little door in your womb and leave a tiny person in there. More seriously, this is your eighteenth pregnancy; I hope for your sake that your body is strong enough to endure the trauma of this latest one.
    Your life depends on it!

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Honestly, by the time you’re on kid #13, both anxiety and screaming for joy seem to me like implausible reactions for kids to have. The people I knew who grew up in very large families, including extremely Christian ones, tell me that yet another pregnancy simply became routine at some point. Their mother was pregnant more often than she wasn’t and there was a new baby every couple years if not even more often. How many times can you either freak out or scream for joy when something is so normal? Either this woman is exaggerating her children’s reactions for her blog or the children are exaggerating their own reactions for their mother. Either way, it seems like it’s all part of the expectation to be outrageously joyful 24/7, which I’m sure they all thoroughly understand.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    lol, I was also thinking this.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Yeah, food and “frivolous items” should really not be right next to each other in that sentence. They are not really comparable. A frivolous item is something that you, by definition, do not need, although a frivolous item now and then can make you happy and is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Food, though…kids kind of need that.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Yes

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Um, why do so many of the boys look like they’re cosplaying as Eddie Munster?

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    It’s a staged photo so I wonder if an amateur makeup artist of meager ability wasn’t let loose on the boys? That definitely doesn’t look natural.

    EDIT: Okay, I just glanced through their “about” section and it looks like Mom has both a cosmetology license and a hell of a lot of extremely garish makeup on in a lot of her photos. So I’m thinking she’s the one responsible for the vampire look. I guess “amateur makeup artist of meager ability” was pretty much right.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    To me, it just looks like they’re all wearing really weird and badly done makeup. Because it’s not just that they look pale, it looks like they’ve got on eye makeup and lipstick and stuff, like they’re dressed up for Halloween. I wonder if someone thought this would be a good idea for a photo? Like stage makeup, but really poorly done.

    I’m also not crazy about the fat/skinny snide comments. I was a skinny kid also and it’s possible that these kids just are that way naturally too. Still, it also might be more than that, given that they don’t seem to have inherited their builds from their parents and their mother talks about “one less chicken leg” as if it were “one less brussel sprout.” (I mean, how many chicken legs does one usually get at dinner? “One less” is kind of a big difference…) It could just be growing teenagers and I certainly wouldn’t say that their physiques themselves suggest otherwise. But given the rest of the context, it also wouldn’t surprise me to find out that these kids would put on more weight if they had enough food. “Just built that way/just hitting a growth spurt” are perfectly fine reasons to be that thin, but “not enough to eat” is a sad reason and not out of the question.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    I just looked at her about section. Holy shitballs, this woman has been married for 20 years. 20 years and pregnant 18 times! And she seems to have married right out of high school, so she is only in her late thirties and could have several more to go. Good Lord, people, please get a hobby!

    Also, it really rubs me the wrong way that, even on a quick glance, she seems to bring up her miscarriages all the time and to constantly remind everyone that they were “SEVERE” or “very difficult” or something. (She really likes all caps, it seems.) I mean, I don’t know if that means late-term or what but, in the end, every miscarriage means the loss of a pregnancy and the loss of a wanted pregnancy is painful for every woman who experiences it. It smacks of attention-getting one-upmanship to me and “Look at me and my Christlike suffering!” Her miscarriages have to be the most miscarriage-y of all miscarriages.

  • Jennny

    By law teachers are required to report any concerns – not only visible bruising – to Child Social Services. By law, their social workers can gain access to the house and discuss concerns with parents and act to ameliorate the child’s state.

  • Boys, having a penis, are entitled to boundaries and a personal bubble.

    Girls, being little better than slaves, can be treated accordingly.

    (I threw up a little while typing that.)

  • Oh, yeah, new siblings are great, until your parents decide to put the baby in YOUR room, without consulting YOU. As much as I love my sibs now, there were times when I hated them for taking space that was MINE and parental time and attention that really should have been a bit more evenly spread, thanks. There was no point to attending every little extracurricular one of my siblings did, beyond telling the rest of us who their favorite was. Like, don’t get me wrong, parents should support their kids’ activities and stuff, but not to the point where their other kids are basically getting ignored.

  • LOL I guarantee that is NOT what they’re saying in their heads!

  • Almost a chimp

    Agreed. She has miscarried 5 out of 17 (so far, this is pregnancy 18) times, which means that she has lost 1 in every 3.4 (or almost 2 in 7). If this pregnancy is successful she will still only have delivered 3 in 4.
    When there are so many extant children in the family, and considering that she obviously has problems carrying a pregnancy to term, why would she put herself through all the sickness and potential loss of yet another foetus, not to mention her own life, just to add another face to the crowd?
    Glory to God my arse, this reeks of very public martyrbation.

  • Almost a chimp

    It is not natural for all twelve children to be stick thin, especially as the father has a large frame. If they were fed properly there would be a variety of body shapes.

  • Wade

    Oh dear FSM, she’s crowing about getting an ice cream carton out of the garbage and finishing off the last (really, it was so tiny) of the melted ice cream. Out of the garbage.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Well, with 12 kids, I wouldn’t exactly say she has trouble carrying pregnancies to term. Miscarriage is common, including multiple miscarriages and if you’re getting knocked up that damn much, 5 over 20 years and out of 17 sounds well within the high-normal range, though I’m not a healthcare professional. (But considering the estimates for what percentage of pregnancies end in miscarriage–although usually very early ones–and considering how many women I know who’ve experienced one or more and who only have the usual few kids and were only trying for that many…)

    So that doesn’t seem that weird to me, at least not weirder than not using birth control and having as many as possible does to begin with. It’s just the fact that she can’t even mention them without throwing in some modifiers implying that her suffering was extra-special compared to that of most women who miscarry. I mean, you don’t need to pile more verbiage and ALL CAPS onto a miscarriage; people get that it’s painful and sad already. And she can’t seem to talk about the children she actually has or make a birth announcement without throwing in “And remember, 5 extra-super-bad miscarriages!” Which just seems weird. The whole thing feels very performative.

  • Almost a chimp

    If the poor buggers look that ill after make-up, what in Hell were they like before? Translucent?

  • Mel

    My twin sister sent me a link a few years ago when they moved into an RV soon after the Duggar molestation scandal. I thought she was joking about how badly they name-drop; she’s not. The mom sets up posts so that that her family is besties with the Duggars, any family who has married a Duggar, the Bateses, the Pearls. When you look at the photos, though, it’s pretty clear that they are on the outskirts of the CP/QF royalty.

  • Almost a chimp

    Pregnancy and miscarriage as performance art. That’d be about as popular as listening to recorder recitals in infant school.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    I think sibling incest is indeed quite common in these circles. Jim Bob Duggar basically said as much and, for once, he may have actually been right.

  • Mel

    To me, it’s a way of inflating the number of children she has. Most QF women take miscarriages hard since they want to have a lot of children – but no one brings it up in every post involving her kids.

  • Mel

    About 20% or 1/5 pregnancies end in miscarriage between when the mom finds out she’s pregnant and the end of the first trimester – generally due to severe genetic abnormalities in the embryo. She’s at 75% which is statistically within the normal range of a 80% healthy pregnancy rate.

    Doctors generally wouldn’t screen them for infertility unless she’s lost several pregnancies in a row, is losing pregnancies that seemed viable based on ultrasounds and genetic testing of the embryo and/or has reached advanced maternal age without successful pregnancies.

    I know this is catty – but if any of those things were true she would have written about it on her blog as dramatically as possible…..

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Yeah, that also seems like a subtext. “I really have 17 kids!” If you primarily see kids as props to telegraph your own “accomplishment” of Xtreme fertility, I guess a terminated fetus or embryo is really almost as good as a born, living child.

  • Mel

    Oh, great. I figured it was a MLM scheme – but seriously – pick one that won’t do long-term organ damage.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Lol I don’t know. Badly done makeup can definitely make you look worse and more sickly than none at all. I have some memories of looking rather undead when I was a pre-teen and experimenting at home without knowing what I was doing. I glanced through the pictures in the blog and she seems to make both herself and her kids up very heavily and very often for photos. And some of the makeup looks just…terrifying. Like the Addams family or something. I just went to say “Put DOWN the eyeliner and back away slowly.” Having none would definitely look better.

    Though, I have to say, after seeing some more kid pics, i don’t feel like the thinness of the kids can realistically be chalked up to natural build or growth spurts, even charitably. I really try to avoid assuming anything about peoples’ body size one way or the other, especially when it comes to growing kids. But this is not a case of a couple wiry teenage boys. Every single kid at every age looks hollow-eyed and rail thin, beyond the “naturally high metabolism” look. It just seems really unlikely to be a coincidence, given what else we know about the family.

  • Almost a chimp

    Full disclosure.
    The reason I am suspecting malnutrition is that I spent many years working alongside Social Services with abused and neglected children, and I’ve seen many instances of under-fed families, and with that experience the signs are easy to spot.
    I’d still hold back against a definite allegation on the basis of a photograph, but I’d definitely recommend some kind of official investigation using their own publicity and publically published photographs as initial evidence of potential neglect, and possible intervention in the form of medical checks on them all along with offers of assistance from welfare institutions if neccessary.
    If the kids are malnourished and the parents too proud to accept welfare, that is when things would start to get serious, with involvement of the courts and so on.
    Of course, every effort should be made to keep families together wherever possible, but when parents would rather refuse assistance despite being made aware of the problems they’re causing the kids, that’s when neglect becomes deliberate abuse and the children are likely to then be moved to a place of safety.

    As far as I’m concerned, adults have every right to do whatever they want with their own bodies and health, but they have no rights to harm their children, not even for their deluded beliefs.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Also, from looking at their About section, where she gives the birth month and year of her children, several of her kids were spaced less than a year apart. That sounds like people trying extra hard to get more “gifts” to me. Breastfeeding is hardly a perfect method of birth control but it generally results in children spaced a little more than that, even when no other method is used. (Maybe one set of “Irish twins” but multiple sets?) Not that I think that breastfeeding should be viewed as a requirement of mothers, but people like this generally seem to. If she was eschewing breastfeeding to get pregnant again faster, that’s not exactly just passively letting God “open her womb.”

  • “Children Do Not Resent New Babies?”

    http://i.imgur.com/p1I6ziU.jpg

  • God has chosen to open my womb

    Yuck. Is it just me, or is this expression kind of weird?

    It reminds me of a “Black Adder” (British sitcom) episode where someone was praising Prince George by calling him “Our king’s loins’ most glorious outpouring!”

  • Friend

    Was it just a dwelling parked permanently, or did they travel in it? How legal is it to drive an RV with a dozen children inside? Pics I saw did not show seating. They did build a baby bed in the closet…

  • paganheart

    Given the deep-seated racism in Quiverfull and fundie Christianity in general, I suspect the fact that their last name is Rodrigues, and the fact that the husband is obviously Latino, keeps them from being fully accepted in the Quiverfull realm. Some should tell this poor, deluded woman that she can say all the Quiverfull words and do all the Quiverfull things, but she will never be fully accepted in the Quiverfull world, because her husband’s skin is the wrong color, and her children are therefore considered inferior “half-breeds” in Quiverfull/fundie land.

  • paganheart

    I’m sure mom would love that, but I doubt Jim Bob would let one of his sons court and marry a half-Latino girl. Too much racism in that world.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    That’s a really good point. The circles they move in are composed of the kind of people who shout “Go back to Mexico!” if they just hear the name “Rodriguez.”

  • SAO

    As a kid, my room, painted in my favorite color, was given to my baby brother and I got stuck in my sister’s room, which had been decorated with her favorite color. I presume my mother explained it to me, but it didn’t seem fair to me. However, it was really the only option, when a surprise baby was born (I think it was a failure of birth control). I would imagine you got landed with a sibling in your room because it was the only place that made sense.

    My parents’ focus was on my handicapped brother. His needs were enormous. As an adult, I know that was the right decision. We grew up in an era where doctors routinely recommended that handicapped kids get warehoused in (horrible) institutions so that the rest of the family would be ‘normal’. My parents rejected that advice, at substantial cost to themselves, and I’m proud of that. Doctors said that Autism was caused by bad mothers and my mother suffered from neighbors and others who viewed her parenting through that lens. At the time, there was no support for handicapped kids. You did it all yourself or you consigned your kid to an institution, most of which did not allow visits.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    On the other hand, a lot of them like to talk about how totes not-racist they are. I can see one of those kids being the perfect model minority for people like the Duggars to tout how much they love everybody etc. Culturally, the family seems pretty standard whitebread fundamentalist and it seems like the father came from a “wrong side of the tracks” background, found Jesus in early adulthood, and married Jill, a cradle fundie. Perfect token POC who demonstrates that brown people can leave behind their nasty, dirty ghetto “culture” and rise up as long as they work hard and love Jesus, and then they will absolutely be accepted by white Christians who absolutely have no problem with brown people as long as long as they don’t make “excuses.” See, look at this guy here!

    White fundies get to have a Minority Friend to give them not-racist cred, but they don’t have to deal with all that uncomfortable stuff, like that smelly food, or that weird language, or that godless culture etc. etc. Of course, some white fundies seem to openly embrace white racial supremacy but, to some others, a family like this is a boon to their virtue-signaling. Although, marriage might be a step to far–but maybe not to one of the Rodriguez girls, who will take the husband’s name anyway? I have a feeling that families looking to marry off girls would cringe at the idea of a daughter becoming a Mrs. Rodriguez, no matter how loving and accepting they fancy themselves to be.

  • Sandpirate

    It’s not just you. I find that phrase rather crass. I’m not entirely sure what is being referred to though. Are they talking about it opening to let the sperm in or push the baby out? The fact that God is getting the credit is weird.

  • Evelyn

    Whoa. They either look like siblings of Edward Cullen, or they’ve got some serious anemia going on there 🙁

  • Anonyme

    He said it so nonchalantly too. Like, it happens enough that he has a lackadaisical attitude about it.

  • Mel

    I assumed they traveled in it; the point of the RV was to promote their music ministry or something like that. They had a home before and after the RV period – but I think they spent most of the RV period traveling.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Your poor mother! OMG that’s terrible

  • Almost a chimp

    One of my favourites, up there with Every Sperm is Sacred.

  • Almost a chimp

    Might help to explain the ‘undead’ make-up for the photo shoots.

  • smrnda

    I get adults being obligated to show up to activities, but siblings? That seems a bit excessive to me. It’s the parents’ job to encourage the kids, not the siblings.

  • smrnda

    A quick google shows a chicken leg having about 100 calories. For a kid, that isn’t insignificant.

  • Depends on the age/ability of the kids, I guess. But I was talking about my parents taking time and attention from the rest of us, at least once a week, to cheer on ONE kid. It’s ridiculous, especially when your OTHER KIDS NEED YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION TOO.

  • I’d be the disabled kid IGNORED in favor of their Golden Child. You know, if there was something I wanted to do, it always took a backseat to the Golden Child’s schedule.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    lol, possibly, but, judging from Jill Rodriguez’ photos, I suspect that incredibly tacky taste is the real culprit. 😛 I mean, jeez, I feel like Dolly Parton would be like “Take it easy a little.” (And Dolly is tacky on purpose!) Some of the makeup on the girls just looks terrifying.

  • SAO

    Some women are just a lot more fertile than others. I’d think that one set of “Irish twins” implies that the mother is hyperfertile — something that most of us don’t want to be.

  • SAO

    I suspect if you are trying to break into stardom/fame/actually having an income in the CPM world, you try to latch on to the Duggar train. I’m sure that people on the TV show get some compensation.

  • SAO

    I think sometimes if a woman’s body doesn’t think she’s in good enough health to sustain a pregnancy, it will be miscarried. I’d guess her miscarriages were relatively early in the pregnancy.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Even if you’re really fertile though, breastfeeding will usually impede fertility, at least to some extent.

  • Lucy

    I also looked at that photograph, noticed the same girl you did and agree with you, and also noticed the other (younger) family members all have the same fake smiles the Duggars wear. The ones that don’t quite reach their eyes, and accompanied by sort of a fearful, pleading look in their eyes.

  • rumpledtulip

    I notice Dad looks well-fed, however.

  • Almost a chimp

    I remember hearing Dolly Parton say that it ‘costs a lot of money to look this cheap’.

  • SAO

    I seem to recall some gene for getting pregnant while still breastfeeding. Either you have the hyperfertile gene or you don’t. That said, I couldn’t find a reference with a quick Google.

    ‘Breastfeeding’ means many things to many people. Some mothers do it for 2 years, some for a month or two. Both will often claim they breastfed all their kids. If you aren’t doing enough feedings, the pregnancy suppression doesn’t work, so supplementation with formula can speed the return of fertility. Nursing takes time. One feeding took me a half hour. If you’re feeding every 4 hours, that’s 6/day or 3 hours. The same should be true with a bottle, but a 5 year old can give a baby a bottle and that 5 year old can’t (or shouldn’t) cook dinner. Pumping milk took the same time as nursing plus time for sterilizing the bottles and equipment.

    So, I’d imagine a CPM mother might have a lot of reasons to supplement with formula, even if it wasn’t in order to have more, more and even more kids.

  • SAO

    It really helps to let go of the hurt. Your parents were flawed. It sounds like that’s a fact. Accept it and let go. It can be a slow, tough process but do it for yourself.

  • marius

    I wholeheartedly agree! There is NO way those 12 children are getting the attention and education they deserve. Google the Rodrigues family. All of those kids look sick and extremely malnourished.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Yep.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Well, pregnancies in such rapid succession like she’s had sure aren’t good for most women’s health…

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Welcome to the banned list. We do not allow personal attacks on other posters.

  • That’s why I like Jeff–he’s guaranteed to have some thoughtful intellectual conversation.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Jeffs seem to be nothing but troublesome homophobes here. That’s why I move them to Jerks4Jesus.com

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Does your dick reach all the way to Central America? Somehow I doubt it seriously. Welcome to Jerks4Jesus.com

  • You know what else helps? Parents apologizing.

    Three guesses who the middle child is…

  • Ask any Drag Queen, and she will confirm that for you.

  • Kodie

    Hi Suzanne, I am the real Kodie and that guy was/is still impersonating me because I reported him for impersonating someone else. I followed one of his post responses and found a link to that site you mention. I just wanted to correct where it said he goes by the moniker ‘Kodie’ and has sand in his vagina. He is impersonating me and my avatar, so it looks like when he posts, it is me, and the link goes to your site where you tell everyone I’m Jeff. At least I know its name now. But I’m actually Kodie. Compare my profile with his profile. https://disqus.com/by/DavidCromieTriedToTouchMe/

    Thank you for giving enough information to find you here. But please stop telling the world I have sand in my vagina.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I will edit it immediately! LMAO, sorry this idiot hacked you.

  • Kodie

    Thank you!

  • SAO

    Yes, but whether your parents apologize is outside of your control. You can’t make them apologize. You can’t change what they did and you probably can’t do much to change what they do or will do. So, if you are waiting for an apology, you are putting your healing in their hands. That’s what I meant by saying you should accept that they are flawed and that hurt you. Accept it as a fact that you can not change and don’t wait or hope for them to change.

    You can control only yourself. You can change only yourself. That’s why I recommend you let go of the hurt. It’s something *you* can do. Maybe you need therapy to help you start the process. Your goal should not be to repair your relationship with your parents but to heal from the hurt from your childhood.

    You may decide that repairing your relationship with your parents is a goal, but if so, you have to start by accepting that they are flawed and those flaws deeply hurt you.
    I don’t know your parents, but I will say I have seen loving parents do horrible things to their kids to try to “fix” a real or perceived problem rather than accepting the kids as they are. It’s a tragedy to harm someone you love deeply when you were trying to help them.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Wish I could give your comment a million thumbs up! This is what I have had to learn the hard way in dealing with one of my parents. It does work, and handling it that way sort of removes you from the place of being repeatedly hurt by a parent that will not change or continues to do hurtful things.

  • So they’re allowed to be imperfect, but I’m not allowed to be angry about it.

    Niiice…

  • MuttsRule

    I agree the reaction is probably just, “Get that, willya,” as shown in Monty Python.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsWxkU0g9Z4

  • SAO

    No, I didn’t say that. I said you can’t change them.

    My impression is that the anger you have, the hurt you have, hurts you. You need to heal. That may or may not include understanding and forgiving your parents.

    You need to heal for yourself, as a gift to yourself. That healing can’t happen if you make it contingent on getting something from your parents that they have never given you. If you do that, you are handing them — people who have hurt you — the power to withhold what you need to heal.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I meant that none of this can take place if you expect to get anything from those folks. You do not have to handle them. I have personally found that once I was at the point where I expected nothing they lost all power to hurt me, once that was dealt with it was much easier to even have any sort of relationship. Didn’t express what I meant well