Godly tip for the day: Don’t murder a family

Okay, so I am not going to start making a habit of showing you these. But the conversation around “The enemy is deceiving you that homosexuality is alright [sic]“ has proven so vibrantly interesting (when I expected that post, put up late last night right just before I crashed into bed, to pretty much just disappear), that I couldn’t resist sharing this (extremely typical) one, since it came in not two minutes ago:

John, my name is [deleted] and I Read tidbits of what you were about. I , also, read a lot of the letters of support for you. I wanted to make you aware that this kind of talk is leading people astray and away from the real God of the Bible. When a person receives the Holy Spirit, they know it! God convicts that person of their wrong doing so that they can transition into a butterfly. That is a person who shows they care back for God the same as he cares for us. Believing is an action word and we need to prove to God “in our actions” that we love him back. I would think if you were my husband you would expect the same! Why wouldn’t God? If I was your wife and committing homosexual acts, would that bother you since you are the man I am supposed to solely love? Can I cheat on you and have you support it? Or how about killing your family? These things are proof of our integrity to God and they would be in a marriage between you and I. Correct? You confoning things that are not of integrity is very wrong. You would expect integrity from your mate and do does God from us. Your books are leading people in the wrong direction and I am very scared the fruit you are bearing is Satans. You need God and I ask you to pray for his Holy Spirit. I do t support gay rights or sinful acts, just as I wouldn’t if we were married if you are straight. God doesn’t support those actions either and there is a penalty for the lack of integrity we show. God bless you!

Really? So is that the new standard for proving our integrity: that we don’t kill other people’s families? Sweet! I pass! I’ve never once killed a family!

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About John Shore

John Shore (who, fwiw, is straight) is the author of UNFAIR: Christians and the LGBT Question, and three other great books. He is the executive editor of the Unfundamentalist Christians group blog.  (In total John's two blogs receive some 250,000 views per month.) John is also co-founder of The NALT Christians Project, which was written about by TIME,  The Washington Post, and others. His website is JohnShore.com. You're invited to like John's Facebook page. Don't forget to sign up for his mucho-awesome newsletter.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cagefreebrown Cage Free Brown via Facebook

    mmmmmm. Satan’s fruit…..

  • Elizabeth

    I always thought the rule was, friends don’t let friends Photoshop drunk. But… that’s probably a different rulebook.

  • InDiscernment

    I do t know. People are do easily confused.

  • Mindi

    “If I was your wife and committing homosexual acts, would that bother you since you are the man I am supposed to solely love? ”

    Yes, that would be wrong. If, however, you were his husband, you’d condone (er, sorry, confone) those same acts, because they’d probably keep ya happy.

  • Connie

    It always fascinates me when people like her assume *we’re* the ones being ‘led astray’. Clearly, she missed the whole “Love Thy Neighbor” part? I *am* sad that I’ll never be a butterfly. ;-)

  • Lindsey

    I love how right after she accuses you of spreading the fruits of Satan, she cheerfully and casually ends her letter with a “God bless you!”

  • Rob B

    Pretty sure you never killed any family but this is surely killing me! :p

  • http://www.facebook.com/valeriebarlowhorton Valerie Barlow Horton via Facebook

    wow people are so confused

  • http://www.facebook.com/scott.amundsen.7 Scott Amundsen via Facebook

    I know it is distinctly un-Christian of me, as our Teacher told us to love our enemies, forgive “seventy times seven,” and turn the other cheek. But I think I ran out of cheeks to turn about twenty-seven years ago, and I have discovered that the phrase “stupid bitch (asshole)” has certain uses.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    RIGHT??? And they ALWAYS DO THAT! It’s always like, “Perish in hell, evil minion of Satan!!! God bless!”

  • Carol

    I’m speechless…..

  • Alexis Smith via Facebook

    So… the only reason that situation doesn’t have “integrity” is because the hypothetical husband’s wife was cheating on him with another woman? Because if you draw that line of thinking out, aparently God endorses cheating on your spouse as long as it’s straight? Yikes! I figured cheating was kind of a no-go morally regardless of sexual orientation.

  • Carol

    AAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!! So true! Jesus Love me, but he can’t stand you!!

  • Carol

    typo intenshunall

  • n.

    and considering what you’ve written about your family, i imagine that took some effort.

    (i come from a family that the reason we didn’t have guns was because, if we had, there would have been even less of us, so…)

  • n.

    it took me forever to figure out why the hate mail was interjected with marriage fantasies.

  • Kristi

    I am convicted by the rational brain that the person who wrote that letter is at least one beer short of a six-pack.

  • InDiscernment

    It was probably Satans (sic) fault that she doesn’t know how to use Spell Check. The “real God of the Bible” would never have allowed that to happen.

  • Christy

    Well, gee. With logic like that…

  • http://rideofthevalkyries.blogspot.com Val

    I don’t want to confone anything either, but sheesh… Why can’t people who are going to expound a bunch of nonsense at least be grammatically correct? This kind of thing makes ignorant people look stupid.

  • Paul in Canada

    …me too!

    wow. simply, wow!

  • Brena

    Funny how Jesus did not say much about the “big” sins humans keep pushing as the key points to agree upon to avoid hell. He did CLEARLY say this one that gets brushed off and passed over:

    Mat 12:36 “But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

    So, He clearly states that every time we say something we “didn’t really mean” we will answer in judgement for it, and yet the Lord’s own chosen just ramble away!

  • Brena

    Confoning is new to me. It does sound Satanic, come to think of it…

  • Brena

    Christian fetishes hide behind metaphor, I think.

  • Melody

    Ah, nothing like a healthy dose of projection to make you feel better about your own self-loathing. I pity this woman, but not enough to truly feel sorry for her, since she’s doing so much damage to everyone around her.

  • http://www.sparrowmilk.blogspot.com Shadsie

    Is this person coming onto you? I mean, they’re creating this whole fantasy-scenario where she’s married to you and… the rest… BRAIN! The flow of this is…um… can’t grok? My brain needs rest now. Someone needs to set down the bong or take a high school English class because I’m having trouble understanding it.

  • http://www.sparrowmilk.blogspot.com Shadsie

    By the way, I’m really sorry to be mean here, it’s just… I am literally having trouble understanding what the letter is about.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    I am confoned.

  • Ardie Herbel

    I just plain did not understand one thing about her letter, poor grammar, poor spelling aside. What on earth is she talking about?

  • MAB

    John – I agree with most of the stands you take. And I know firsthand how frustrating people can be. Even sincere people who are sincerely wrong. But I don’t agree with mocking someone who is obviously trying to explain what they believe and why. Even if the logic is confused. If you had posted the letter and your rational response to it, that’s one thing. Pointing out why you disagree or pointing to one of your many blog posts that have those points. But, it seems you put this letter up so people could basically make fun of her and her typo. And I don’t think that’s Christ centered.

    You are at your best when you take on these issues and explain the arguments you had with yourself (and God, etc…) to come to the conclusions you have reached. It’s tiring to keep beating the same drum, but if that is what it takes…then isn’t it worth it? Isn’t that better than ridiculing someone?

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    Gosh, she set the bar so high! Since I’ve been reading your stuff, John, how will i ever be able to resist cheating on my spouse with my lesbian lover while killing their respective families?

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    That is some great multi-tasking!

  • Melody

    Exactly. All it does is discredit them even more than the already-ridiculous nonsense they keep spewing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.j.james Richard J James via Facebook

    Screaming and howling!!! I’m not confoned one little bit. ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    …and when they finally convict me of multiple homicides, i will say without hesitation: “John Shore confoned me!”

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    Hahahahaha

  • http://supercrayons64.blogspot.com Blake “Crayons”

    Reminds me of churches I’ve been to that don’t know how to properly use powerpoint and blame that on Satan wanting to distract people from the service.

  • Melody

    Stupid is as stupid does. This person deserves nothing but ridicule. See my comment to Val.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ms.kimcamacho Kim Camacho via Facebook

    This person is worried the fruit you are bearing is of Satan?!.. Well, since they’ve only read tidbits of your writings & MANY of your supporters responses I’m assuming everyone can see the fruit you are bearing… It’s full of love. & everyone of us is better for it. Thank you, John. Keep up the good work buddy:)

  • http://supercrayons64.blogspot.com Blake “Crayons”

    Also “I’ll be praying for you!”

    Oh God, the self-righteousness!

  • http://www.facebook.com/akconstant Christopher S. Constant via Facebook

    cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo.

  • http://www.anglopole.wordpress.com Anglopole

    “God convicts that person of their wrong doing so that they can transition into a butterfly”

    Is that a new form of a butterfly effect? ;-)

  • Barbara Rice

    What is the relationship between illiteracy and fundamentalism?

  • http://supercrayons64.blogspot.com Blake “Crayons”

    If God is my… wife? husband? I don’t know if she’d want me have heterosexual sex with anyone ever.

    Is this person saying I can only make love to God?

    There’s also the possibility that God would rather have an open relationship.

    I’m going to Hell :P

  • Elizabeth Carlton Chase

    In all seriousness: I believe that this person is mentally ill, or at least very mentally unstable. Seems to be a pattern.

  • MAB

    In God’s eyes, I’m pretty sure all any of us deserve is ridicule. We’re supposed to treat one another better than that. “Love your neighbor” doesn’t mean “love your neighbor only if she agrees with you on everything, is totally logical about everything, and isn’t hateful.” How can we expect others to ever listen to us if we never listen to them — even if it’s so we can keep lovingly telling them why we think they are seriously wrong?

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    I was wondering who would first chime in with this this exact tsk-tsking.

    One way or another, someone’s always eager to jump in and tell you how you’re not quite Godly enough.

  • Melody

    Yup. The Real True Christian© version of “Fuck you.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/john10423 John Gragson via Facebook

    LMAOOOOOOOO love it. (and may God bless the letter writer so she doesn’t get any more confoned.)

  • Melody

    Yup. The tone police is alive and well here.

  • Melody

    No surprise there. Her version of Christianity would make anyone crazy. It’s no wonder I’m still so messed up myself.

  • mike moore

    oh fuck, I’m in deep trouble. I think about killing my family on a daily basis. Especially when we all get together for Thanksgiving.

  • mike moore

    except my Mom … she’s cool.

  • Melody

    Well, considering the late fundy Jack Hyles actually taught a not-at-all perverted view of certain psalms with the word “laid” in them, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if she actually did believe that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kim.thompson.338 Kim Thompson via Facebook

    The word “should” should be stricken from the language.

  • Melody

    Well, they believe education is a slippery slope that leads to worldliness which leads to (gasp!) Liberalism, which will surely lead to the depths of hell. ‘Cause being a friend with the world is being an enemy to God, amen? So just keep on following God’s will to be ignorant, and quote Matthew 5 whenever the world persecutes you. Amen?

  • MAB

    That’s not what I am saying. I have an abundance of my own faults. And frankly, it really hurts that you would say that, John. (And therein lies the peril of written words on the internet, when you can’t see and hear my tone when I say this, and I can’t see/hear you.) You have a large following. One that includes me. And just like that hateful pastor (who had a very small following on youtube before the video went viral), when you are a “teacher/preacher,” you are held to a higher standard. (That’s a pretty Biblical principle there…) Your words and actions have power. When I worked with teenagers, I knew I was under a microscope. I’m not tsking you. I really don’t understand why you would take something that could be another chance to show compassion and, instead, ridicule someone rather than trying to teach.

    Or are we not allowed to have these conversations amongst each other? I’m not against you. I thought we were all here to try and figure some of this stuff out together and to help each other get by and be better at doing it.

  • n.

    ya think?!

  • http://ricbooth.wordpress.com/ Ric Booth

    “If I was your wife and committing homosexual acts, would that bother you “…

    I was smiling up until there. Then I was lol-ing. This lady obviously doesn’t understand men (gay or straight). I’m still laughing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    Am i still right with God if i kill my own family?

  • Kristi

    One time we had about 40 ants get into our camper’s medicine cabinet. They were crawling all over our toothbrushes. I killed every last one. Does that mean I am going to Hell for killing a family? Just wondering…..

  • n.

    OMGosh i should totally threaten to pray for ppl more often, if that’s what it means…

  • Mike H.

    Why am I thinking the lyrics to, “Everybody must get stoned” would be appropriate?

    I bet you’re one of those folks who believe Jesus never laughed or gave into the ridiculous. I’d also put money on you being someone who loves to hold others to higher standards than you likely hold yourself to. Give it a rest.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    Because when i see them, it has crossed my mind!

  • Ashley

    HA! I am in tears from laughing over this whole article but this comment just put me over the top! Thanks for the laugh!

  • Melody

    Or how ’bout, when someone says “I’ll pray for you,” respond with, “I’ll think for you.” That’s more of an atheist favorite, but I still think it’s brilliant.

  • http://www.anglopole.wordpress.com Anglopole

    there’s a lovely video that may have been posted as a reply already, but it’s worth repeating:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=uknbb7aFADw

    it’s a great, loving reply to all religious extremists and fanatics.

  • http://www.unchainedfaith.com Amy

    Omg…I am dying. I am in a public place, trying hard not to make people uncomfortable by laughing hysterically. I think my favorite part is when she says God convicts people so they can turn into butterflies. I am now seriously considering photoshopping all my friends heads onto butterfly bodies.

  • MAB

    And I would bet that you don’t know me at all. Because you are pretty much wrong on every count. And while I don’t post here alot, if you went and found my earlier posts, you might see that. I don’t expect anyone to do something I don’t try to do myself. And expect my friends to kick me in the butt when I’m wrong. Which happens fairly often.

  • Melody

    Ugh, I know, right? I’ve heard people use that when the sound system was malfunctioning as they were about to sing a solo. Nothing like blaming the devil for lack of preparation or maintenance.

  • n.

    didn’t you see where somebody earlier said “don’t photoshop drunk” ?

  • Mike H.

    Because while you talk a good game, he maintains this blog, tries to give everyone here equal time while trying to make a living doing what he does best – which is pretty damn good at that.

    Try showing a little understanding yourself instead of nit-picking.

  • n.

    also one friend of mine had her butterfly moment when she became an atheist. so what does that say?!

    (i mean, butterflies are an important symbol to this friend BECAUSE she escaped the cocoon of a really dysfunctional supposedly-christian past and blossomed into herself when she got her freedom)

  • n.

    i was always surprised there weren’t any baptist nuns… or reformed presbyterian ones. although i almost was one of the latter, come to think of it.

  • DR

    You are supporting the Father of Lies, the very architect of pain, murder, despair, abuse, hate and isolation.

    God bless!

    (the way that these people PERVERT the blessing of God as they tag it on to such stupid abusive filth like this is crazy).

  • mike moore

    I can’t even speak of my “butterfly moment” in polite company, but nekkid-ness was involved.

  • Christelle

    “I do t support gay rights or sinful acts, just as I wouldn’t if we were married if you are straight.” I decided not to mock this… but I must say that this statement could be taken SO many different ways!

  • Mike H.

    I’ve heard this story before. I have family members who maintain almost exactly this same line of chatter. They love to spout off, are easily slighted and demand or expect a thousand apologies for any one they’d ever be willing to give when they’re being hurtful or overly critical. Cut the man a break – he’s human. He didn’t post her name or personal info and besides – she’s free to rebut right here.

  • Mike H.

    Am I the only one who had to read that line about a hundred times before I finally saw, “convinces” instead of her misspelled, “convicts”. Sorry – I’m slow sometimes.

  • Regina Felange

    I think stupidity may be more to blame. =(

  • MAB

    How will we ever expect others to treat us and those we care about with respect and love if we don’t do it ourselves? Seriously. When does it end? Can’t someone stand up and say, I’ll start it? I do understand why people are angry and tired. I am, too. My first response after I read the letter was to roll my eyes and groan, “Not again.” But the battles will never stop if no one takes the higher ground first. And that’s all I am trying to say. And that’s all I try to do in my own life. I’m not perfect. I am one of the most sarcastic people on the planet. I have to count to 100 before I post anything online. But it all just makes me sad….because, at this rate…there is no end to the war.

  • Marcelo

    Normally, I might agree with you MAB. I tend to be annoyingly polite and scrupulous in manners for no good reason half the time. At least my friends and kids point that out to me.

    I wouldn’t normally make fun of a person for their poor education (if that is what it is) or lack of wattage of the brain (which may very well be what it is here). However, when someone puts caring-sounding brackets around a condescending and derogatory statement like “I am very scared the fruit you are bearing is Satans [sic]. You need God and I ask you to pray for his Holy Spirit…” then I would take exception. My response might be angrier. John’s was more wry and restrained.

    I don’t take kindly to people essentially I was going to hell and leading others to it as well and do such a poor job of explaining why they think so.

    Ridicule necessarily ensues.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lois.arata Lois Arata via Facebook

    Pardon me. I could go on all day with this one! Hahahaha

  • Marcelo

    *sigh*

    My own keyboarding foibles: I meant to say “people essentially say I was going to hell….”

  • n.

    that could work…

  • MAB

    But Marcelo, for the sake of argument, then what do “Love your neighbor,” “Pray for those that persecute you” mean? It’s supposed to be hard. Of course our first reaction is to be angry. And the second is probably to be snarky. All I am asking is this: Is this the best we can do? What is more powerful, to ridicule this confused woman and get a few zingers off at her expense? Or to ask for an abundance of patience and quietly convince her of where she is wrong? If she could see that, how many people might she affect? Maybe she can’t/won’t be swayed. But I have seen some very adamant people change and evolve over the years. And it took a lot of patience, calm, understanding and love.

  • Rachel M.

    hahahahahahaha – Mike Moore, YOU are killing me!! These comments are NSFW because you guys are KILLING me!!

  • Mike H.

    Look – I get it. But an assumption is being made that she’s “confused”. It’s entirely possible that she’s perfectly rational. English, perhaps, is not her first language but theres a good chance that she’s simply an obnoxious boor and totally full of shit. He was nicer than I would have been.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    No one has a problem, MAB, with you taking whatever it might be that you think of as the high road. But you have no right to chastise me for failing to evince a degree of tolerance and patience that you find acceptable.

    I’m vulnerable to a lot of criticisms. But one of them is absolutely not that I’m not patient enough with people.

    Trust me. You have no idea

    If you want to show love and patience–and by doing so counterbalance whatever shortcomings of mine you’ve perceived—by all means, have at it. That’s good for all of us. But draw yourself up short when and if you find yourself about to presume to tell me how I should be handling my own business.

  • MAB

    I’ll tell you what, Mike. Fair is fair. I do have a blog. I don’t post often because my own snarkiness takes a lot to tame. But, I’ll lay my cards on the table and you can maybe see where I stand. (Don’t worry, I don’t get anything from a click through. I just really want you to see where I am coming from and what I am about.)

    http://mabworld.wordpress.com/

    I know John is human. And a great writer. With an awesome sense of humor. But, like I said, I just thought we all wanted to help each other be better at this life thing. I expect no less from my own friends toward me. And I really, really want us to find a way to fight the ignorance and hate out there without becoming the same thing we despise.

  • MAB

    John – I didn’t mean to offend you in any way. It isn’t “my” high road. I thought it was what Christ asked of us. And it’s what I have seen many people quote here. “Love your neighbor.” You have done amazing things with your blog. And you’ve given much needed to support to so many people desperate for acceptance and the words “You are okay. You are not despised.” It just saddens me to see so many people react without thinking here….well, not just here…all over the internet and from all sides of things. So, in this one corner where I regularly read, I was hoping for some dialogue about this. What does this stuff do to us as individuals and as a “group” of people who do have some very strong beliefs in common, even if not all of our beliefs coincide.

    I apologize if I was preaching to you. I really didn’t mean it that way. It’s your blog and I’m sorry.

  • shadowspring

    Oh dear god, MAB may be just that it takes to finally push me out of Christianity forever! All those times I felt “led by the Spirit” to chastise other people for not being as “holy” as I thought they should be are rushing back to mind. What a sanctimonious, self-righteous bitch I was. Owie. It burns.

    Dear MAB, how about minding the motes in your own eye? That should keep you busy enough.

  • shadowspring

    ROFLOL! No, seriously, you guys crack me up.

  • Melody

    See MAB’s latest comment to John. I honestly don’t think s/he is trying to be self-righteous.

  • Kelven

    This is for MAB and anyone else who thinks we need to always respond with a turn the other cheek attitude. The incredibly toxic discourse around the issues of gay rights rests squarely with fundamentalist religious types, who have been too cruel for too long regarding their fellow humans that don’t fit their narrow ideas of what it means to be holy. Many of these people are starting to get a comparitivly small dose of their own medicine and as far as I’m concerned it does not even come close to making them feel as bad as they have made LGBT people feel for decades if not centuries. I haven’t heard of any Christians killing themselves because somebody made fun of their ignorance. Many of them wear it like a badge.

  • cldg

    “I am very scared the fruit you are bearing is Satans.”

    Anyone else immediately picture a fruit tree full of little Satans?

  • MAB

    Thanks, Melody. And I am sorry, shadowspring. That’s the last thing I wanted to do. I’ve spent the last 25 years of my life trying to support those who have been turned away by the Church. I would really rather die myself than be a stumbling block for someone who is looking for the love of God. So I will shut up now. I am very sorry I chose the wrong words.

  • http://www.unchainedfaith.com Amy

    I’ve heard that too! And when I question it, I am somehow the one who is “deceived.” *sigh*

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    That was so almost an apology–but, alas, it’s also laced with what amounts to judgmental accusations. (“It just saddens me to see so many people react without thinking here”; “I was hoping for some dialogue about this,” etc.)

    But–and I mean this—put this out of your mind now. It’s forgotten. I appreciate your kind words, and certainly support your general sentiment. And I do hear your very clear “I’m sorry” at the end. I’m satisfied. Hope you are too.

    Onward, upward, and all that, ‘eh?

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    I can tell you that I immediately pictured Santa Claus, pissed off and rapping on my door, hollering that he wanted his fruit back.

  • http://www.unchainedfaith.com Amy

    Lol, I missed that one. Of course, I think that’s the BEST way to Photoshop. (Just kidding.)

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    Yes, it does. Bummer for you.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    I’m sure I have no idea what you’re talking about, or how it might be that that was actually the EXACT reason I posted this, but then knew enough not to say one single word about it. Shame on you, Ric.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    Mike Moore is pure amazeballs.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    You’re so awesome, Melody.

  • Allie

    What troubles me most about these letters is the childishness of them. We’ve had some discussion of this type here, and I have to ask: are these people really incapable of telling the difference between cheating and loving a person of the same sex monogamously? Are they really incapable of telling the difference between a sex act between consenting adults and murder?

    The answer seems to be yes, they are really incapable of understanding how laws are derived from principles of right and wrong. In developmental terms these people are little children, still struggling along at the stage of a little child who doesn’t understand that what he does it objectively WRONG, he just knows that WRONG is whatever Mommy gets mad about. Jesus tended to use that language too, referring to children and servants, except that Jesus said a child should eventually learn the purpose behind the father’s business, so that he can guide himself.

    Are so many of us – almost half, in this country, apparently – really operating at the same level as a child, refusing to mature morally as Christ has asked us to do?

  • Melody

    Well, you know what their response will be. They’ll go on about having faith like a child. For every ridiculous assertion they make, they have a ridiculous excuse based on the Bible.

  • http://www.facebook.com/plakin1968 Patricia Lakin via Facebook

    Where do I get the seeds to plant a Satan tree in my front yard, so the door to door Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Mormons won’t bug me. Lol

  • http://www.cindymurphythinkingoutloud.blogspot.com Cindy

    Dear letter writer,

    If you were my wife and were committing heterosexual acts, I would be very upset. Thus it must be wrong for you to commit heterosexual acts even though I would never consider marrying you. Thank you for clearing that up. That was the one piece of logic I was missing that could make life, the universe and everything make perfect sense.

    Someone who would never even consider cheating on her wife,

    Cindy

    P.S. If we’re all supposed to be married to God and we’re supposed to think of God as male, doesn’t that make every Christian man gay?

  • Marcelo

    You’re right, it is hard. And I know I do it far less frequently than I think I do and, heaven knows, what I must do. I did not respond to the letter writer directly because…well…I can’t. Not in this situation. Shouild the letter writer wish to post in this forum, then the “third” response would be the “best we can do.” Or at least better.

    But I’ve faced many people like that before, including my numerous fundamentalist family members. Now, I’m probably a lot braver in the comments than I would be face-to-face with someone, but I also don’t begrudge anyone a little snark when the passive-aggressive gall of someone like this letter writer is so manifest. She wasn’t interested in a dialogue, and she wasn’t just marching around carrying the “Repent Now-The End Is Nigh” placard. She presumed to tell John that he needed to know the REAL Christ because John was obviously deluded.

    I don’t pretend to occupy either the moral high road or even large market share on True Englightenment (God knows!), but a few zingers at her expense..well, I think she got off cheaply. My two cents. I understand what you are saying, and God bless you for having perhaps greater patience than I have, but even Jesus lost his divine cool with the temple moneychangers. Sometimes, a little righteous indignation is exactly the response needed.

  • StephenHeather McCoy via Facebook

    I think this lady’s “spirited” fruit has fermented and that’s what’s causing all of the confoning. She and ole Reverend Again-it and others like them, never seem to have anything logical to say. Their minds are so literally limited that they are completely incapable of articulating a point. It’s sad really… But by golly it makes me laugh! The only thing that could make these addlepated homophobes MORE hilarious, is if they were fictionalized. If they only existed in our minds… Heavy sigh.

  • InaCat

    Thank you Melody- that was just so… poetic!

  • http://supercrayons.blogspot.com Blake

    I’ve run the powerpoint at church in the past. When something went wrong my first thought was usually “Oh, shit. I wasn’t paying attention” Not “Well, it must be the lord of all evil.”

    Then again, I actually know how to run powerpoint.

    And I have a short attention span.

    AND the reasoning to assume a literal Satan would have much more sinister plans than pulling pranks on me.

  • http://www.anglopole.wordpress.com Anglopole

    well said, Kelven, thanks :-)

    it’s the fundamentalist views like the ones expressed in the fantastic letter in question – still cherished in the country where I was born and brought up in that, pushed the whole notion of homosexuality, gender queerness, etc. into the dark unknown underground and made people like me struggle for years with feelings of being a deviant, weirdo, condemned by God etc. and try to live a life according to the only acceptable ‘straight’ way and so, basically living a lie in the name of the God of Truth…

    Thanks to compassion, courage and love of people like John Shore, the LGBT Christians/nonChristians too can make a quicker recovery from the fundamentalist, hate-oriented spiritual cancer!

    Jesus did not turn the other cheek to the pharisees – He confronted them … :-)

  • Peter Weeks via Facebook

    I think I’m confoned.

  • Russell Mark

    John, I’m sure you get dozens of letters like this every day, perhaps hundreds. Certainly, one of the many benefits to speaking your mind is dealing with these kinds of folks. As much as we reflexively want to mock their pitiful imagery, the poor language, the stumbling logic, and horrifically twisted theology, I have to say I am moved by their genuine passion and desire to serve God and to save you and the rest of us from damnation. Oh, I know many are just haters, spewing the vomit of their internalized homophobia, racism, misogyny, etc., etc. , etc. – but those you can spot quickly and deal with appropriately. Yet, many of these writers are truly sincere. We know they are regurgitating the talking points their pastor or some slick haired, over dyed, narcissistic diva known as a televangelist (or talabangelist, as I like to refer to them) has told them. And we know those talking points don’t hold water, much less logic or grace. Yet, something, almost grace-like, compels them to reach out to you and to beg that you change your ways and that people like me must change my diaper (since apparently all gay men have to wear them… because, well you know why). That “passion-point” that compels them is a nexus between their understanding and ours that I think could be exploited to build a dialogue. I don’t necessarily know how and certainly know a lot of energy could we wasted beating a potentially brain-dead horse, but I believe in some cases there is a dialogue opportunity we should consider trying. I’m just sayin…

    Parallel to my amazement at their passion, is my stomach-churning revulsion at the pathetic state of biblical education in our churches. It sickens me to see mostly good people being conditioned to not question, but simple believe what you are taught – even if what they’re taught is factually wrong, a lie or possibly bat-shit crazy. And that so many pastors have no minimal theological training, but are simply led by the testosterone-hyped Holy Spirit through a Mad Hatter’s perception of the Flaming Queen’s Version of the Bible. Cause after all that contextual, historical, linguistical stuff only ruins the story – and a good rush from hating…in Jesus name.

  • Raymond Weaver

    OMG! God’s been outed as a bi-sexual polygamist.

  • Ali

    “Confoning” – Okay, that’s it. I really think I might actually know some of these letter writers.

  • Raymond Weaver via Facebook

    I can’t confone- can’t get a signal!

  • Lisa

    I’ll bet this letter writer is one of Pastor Worley’s flock….

    I know it’s wrong, but this one is killing me! lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/BrettRWilkes Brett Wilkes via Facebook

    The end of this post made me laugh out loud!

  • Wendy

    LOL :-)

  • Wendy

    OMG OMG OMG….this person took the crazy train all the way to the end.

    John, please post more of these, it’s makes us all laugh and cry at the same time :-)

  • Michael

    Given the bizarre phrasing and incoherent sentence structure, I would estimate that, by the time the author finished writing that letter, she was five beers short of a six-pack and the last one was going fast.

  • http://kellythinkstoomuch.wordpress.com KellyK

    Well, this is John we’re talking about. Doesn’t everybody want to marry him?

  • http://www.facebook.com/christie.draper.58 Christie Draper via Facebook

    WOW…just WOW…

  • Elizabeth

    I actually find this really sad.

    I understand the humour and irrationality etc, but I can also hear how she is genuinely concerned. Her heart is right even if her head is not quite there.

    I don’t think that mocking her because of her spelling or grammatical errors is helpful anywhere to this at all. So what if she doesn’t have the words to express what she is feeling? She is feeling it passionately enough to write to someone she is caring for.

    I have been on the receiving end of letters like these and I do understand that there comes a point where the anger and disappointment clicks over to amusement. But please do not let it head to disdain.

    She is not less of a person because perhaps her autocorrect or spellcheck didn’t work.

    A little bit of grace goes a long way with people like the author. She has responded to it with God and is trying to live it to the best of her ability. We are all growing.

    She is ignorant yes. But that doesn’t mean we have to respond to her in kind.

  • n.

    I pictured (not very explicitly of course) a person producing babies that were tiny devils. Perhaps out of eggs. Red ones, with little flames on.

  • Don Rappe

    Dear letter writer,

    May God bless you, as well.

  • otter

    john….thanks for the dose of reality….seeing how much work there is to do is useful and kind of scary yet inspiring….

  • http://Www.unnameablecuriosity.wordpress.com Christine

    Yup, she’s all mine!

    ;) Good one, sweetie.

  • http://Www.unnameablecuriosity.wordpress.com Christine

    Anyone else now seeing little naked people with butterfly wings?

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/ John Shore

    No. Perv.

    Okay, yes.

  • Christelle

    I’m now planning to get a tatoo of a butterfly with my head on it… I’ll probably be drunk while getting it…

    o.k. I should probably think this through a bit ;)

  • Marlin

    I’ve never once killed a family!

    Filthy rags, John. Filthy rags.

  • Raymond Weaver

    Would I be one? I’ve been called a tinkerbell, now and then.

  • Lee

    This is what I have to say: God doesn’t send messages to me through other people. My suggestion when people come bearing messages from God (or the Holy Spirit, or Jesus, or ??) that our response should always be: If God has something s/he wants to tell me, my line is open and s/he can call anytime.

  • charles

    the fact that he is here reading about this stuff is indicating that perhaps he has a God shaped hole he is looking to fill in….

  • danielle

    Oh dear. When one resorts to this line of, ahem, “reasoning”, they’ve kind of lost the argument.

  • danielle

    If people are every truly educated about their faith they tend to be much harder to control and manipulate. That’s as true in Christianity as in Islam as Hinduism or any other religion.


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