Homosexual Marriage and the Real Divide

The Anglican Church is gearing up for the next round of battles over homosexuality as the debate moves from gay bishops to gay marriage. Conservatives and Progressives are squaring off, and one of the most interesting aspects is how this is not only a debate between conservatives and progressives, but between the Anglicans in the developing South and the Northern establishment. The Anglicans in the South are, for the most part, Evangelical Bible believers, and they are locking horns with the progressive Ivy league Oxbridge liberal establishment. The real divide, however is not between conservative and progressive or between liberal and Evangelical or between North and South, but between two fundamentally different understandings of Christianity itself. Read more.

  • http://ideasaboutgodandtheworld.wordpress.com/ Alejandro

    The Homosexual marriage debacle is ridiculous. I still don’t get why is it that in the last 50 years homosexuality got so much attention though. But the thing is, civil unions and marriage should be legalized, but the Church should be left alone in this regard, the state can’t and shouldn’t force individual churches and other religious institutions to marry homosexuals. It’s like the goverment imposing a rule for Kosher restaurants to serve non kosher food.

    • savvy

      The issue is churches who accept these things, forcing other churches to do the same.

      Changing the cultural definition of marriage has consequences. In Canada, Catholic schools are being told they cannot teach their views on homosexuality. How long before this becomes a reality elsewhere. The tolerant are proving that they do not tolerate divergent views.

    • Eugenia

      Alejandro, the truth is, you can’t ordain something as a “right” in one aspect of society and not expect it to have a detrimental effect on another aspect. For instance, all you need do is look up the various lawsuits brought against practicing Christians in countries where gay “marriage” was legalized in secular societies (including here in the United States where state legislatures have legalized it) because Christians were following their consciences by refusing to photograph gay “weddings,” provide bed and breakfast “honeymoon” reservations, rent out reception halls…not to mention Catholic adoption organizations that have had to close because of refusing the adoption of an innocent child purposely into an openly sexually disordered household. In other words, the state IS forcing its citizens, church members, to abide by immoral “legalized” law.

      • Sagrav

        I’m pretty sure that homosexual couples will not be too interested in getting married within a church that disapproves of their very existence. Regardless, the management of individual churches would retain the right to refuse to perform marriage ceremonies that they disapprove of even if homosexuals were to gain the right to marry in general. Do you think that you can get married in a mosque without converting to Islam? It’s not very likely. It would be the same thing for homosexual couples; they would have to find a church where the pastor isn’t going to just tell them that God wants them to burn in a lake of fire.

        The rest of us don’t see anything “immoral” about homosexuals or their desire to marry and raise children. Remember, the various books of the bible were written thousands of years ago by a tribe that was first and foremost interested in keeping it’s population growing and enforcing strict social cohesion. Homosexuals won’t reproduce on their own, so they were vilified and the tribe justified this vilification by claiming that their patron deity invented the rule (though this deity has been strangely silent on the matter ever since). Why would a god care about whether or not the dominant bipeds of planet Earth wear clothing with mixed fibers, eat pork and shellfish, or work on an arbitrary day of the week? Why would a deity say that it enjoys the smell of burning beef? These thoughts are all too human, and they are thousands of years out of date.

        • Fr. Dwight Longenecker

          I think some church members are concerned that homosexual activists will attempt to use legislation to force church communities that disapprove of homosexuality to conduct marriage services for homosexuals. They fear that the homosexual activists will force the issue because they think it is a question of civil rights.

          You analysis of the Biblical prohibitions on homosexuality are understandable. Catholics are not “Bible only” Christians and our disapproval of homosexual actions are based on a combination of sources beyond the Bible alone.

  • http://petersbarque.blogspot.com/ The Ordinary Catholic

    As far as this issue in the Catholic Church is concerned, it boils down to obedience to a rightful authority. Authority in this case is not defined as power but as author’s rights. The author? God, and his right to sanctify marriage as only between a man and woman. It is a lack of obedience by members of the Catholic Church, the body of Christ ,that results in the ensuing battle between homosexual “marriage” and a true marriage. Christ, our model for leading a Christian life, came to do the Father’s will. To obey him. In building his Church on Peter, he tells them, that those that reject their teaching rejects Christ and rejects the Father who sent him. Obedience is key.

  • Vladyk

    I find it interesting how there is an increasing movement among high ranking Catholic clerics supporting legalization of civil unions for same-sex couples, you have Cardinal Martini, Cardinal Pell, Archbishop Nichols, Cardinal McCarick all speaking positivly of such an option. It’s not quite acceptance of homosexual relations but it’s a sublte shift.

  • salvage

    I don’t understand this, your god makes it clear that homosexuals are an abomination that must be killed up discovery yet all you seem interested in doing is making them second hand citizens or vague pariahs.

    Why aren’t you lobbying for the death penalty for gays? This stopping them from getting married seems rather petty in contrast to what your Bible actually says.

    • savvy


    • Fr. Dwight Longenecker

      …or you could attempt to engage in intelligent discussion.

    • Bernie

      Where on earth did you get the idea that God says homosexuals should be killed? Jesus teaches us to love one another, not kill one another. There is a big difference between being homosexual and practising an immoral gay lifestyle. I prefer it be called SSA, (same sex attraction), which I have. I don’t want it, but I am stuck with it. It is my cross to bear. I love Jesus and his Holy Catholic Church. There are many men and women who have SSA and are celebate and we follow the teachings of Jesus’ Church.

    • Ken

      I agree with part of your comment, but we must catch them in the act, or we are not acting in accord with the law of the ord. we cannot just go on what we suspect or think. Just like adultry, the person “caught” in the act can be put to death. If they are not caught in the act, it is only thought to be and not proven as such. If you see an man and a women come out of a house at 8:00 in the morning, what were they doing in the house? I don’t know and it is not my business to speculate what they were doing in the house, especially if I don’t know who they are and what their relationship to one another is. Personally I, for one, don’t care what they were foing in the house—as long as it is not MY house. Then I will wonder about their being in the house. I don’t, or at lease try not to, judge anyone unless it is my business to judge. If I am called to judge anyone, I will have to have evidence to use to judge the person(s) and then I will have to have a reasonable belief that the evidence is true and correct and not tainted or contaminated.

  • Ken

    Who “ordained” gay marriage as right. Evil is evil, even if everybody is doing or approving of it and ilt doesn’t make it right just because everybody is doing it. Good is still good even if nobody is doing it and it doesn’t make it wrong just becase nobody is doing it. If everybody I know is jumping off a bridge onto the rocks below I am not going to do it. I am not stupid. God in the bible states that it is an abomination for a person to do it and that will not change just because somebody being politically correct and not wanting to hurt a homosexual’s feelings doesn’t inform him of his errer. The person keeping his mouth shut will have to answer for that at the judgement. I do not endorse homosexual behavior and don’t endorse any law that goes counter to the natural law or the laws as stated in scripture. I have MY soul to save in that respect and it is not for sale for any reason, not even my own life.

  • akaVarmint

    It boils down to this: Does God teach us morality or do the people tell God what morality is? If the latter is what someone answers then the next question is: Can you really believe in God if you feel you are superior to Him?
    Also, after reading some of the comments, I’m getting the impression that some are confusing Catholicism with Islam. Catholics do not support the death penalty. I believe it is in Part 3 of the Catechism.
    I would like to end this with:
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.

    This is why we continue to keep our faith in public and vote appropriately. This is why we speak out against what is immoral. History has proven time and time again that if you give in once, you are forced to continue to give in entirely.

  • akaVarmint

    oops, I forgot to give credit the the ‘First they came’ poem. It is attributed to: pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)