Quoting Quiverfull: Risky Pregnancies Still No Reason For Birth Control?

Quoting Quiverfull: Risky Pregnancies Still No Reason For Birth Control? December 29, 2016

quotingquiverfullby Zsuzanna Anderson from Are They All Yours?? – Q & A Answers Part One

Editor’s note: So apparently even if your life is at risk by having another child it’s still sinful to practice any form of birth control in the world of IFB gospel according to Zsuzsanna Anderson. Even just abstaining from sex is not done. Interesting that Zsu and Michelle Duggar have such different interpretations of ‘Defrauding’

Since you are against hormonal birth control, I was wondering how you felt about Natural Family Planning? My husband and I are trying for our first baby together (I have two from a previous marriage), and we’re charting and watching fertility signs to know the best times for conception. My second child was born by an emergency C-section when his umbilical cord prolapsed, and most likely I’ll have to have a repeat, due to the incision I had to have, so more children might not be in the cards for me. I’m not willing to go on hormonal birth control, but at the same time, I want the option for more children to be there, just in case.

I am against NFP for several reasons. For starters, the Bible tells us not to defraud our spouses except with consent for a season that we may give ourselves to prayer and fasting. Since I would not like to fast close to a week or more each month, I would not regularly ask my husband to go on a marital fast for that long, either. Secondly, the fertile phase in a woman’s cycle is typically also the one during which she desires and enjoys relations the most – it would be incredibly harmful to make this the time where acting upon these desires is not permitted.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully

moreRead more by Zsuzsanna Anderson:

Using Birth Control Means You Hate Your Husband

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nea

    Defraud is a legal term, and does not apply to sex – unless, perhaps, you are talking approvingly of sex slavery. Considering the insistence on “you put out, he pays the bills” in this culture, they certainly approve of prostitution.

    Also, if your husband can’t hear “no” without flying into a themper or cheating, you’ve married an infant, not a grown man, no matter how tall he is.

    And, as I will bring up every time, Zsu is in too deep with the number of children she has, knows that, and has tried to get her husband to give her a break. His response was to publicly mock her from the pulpit and force her to write “just kidding” blog posts.

  • guest

    I don’t understand why anyone would write to Szu asking what she thinks about any sort of birth control. You know her answer: Of course not! Sin!
    Birth control is something to be discussed with your partner and applied according to what you believe is right. God gave us brains and a conscience. If you believe one kind of birth control is wrong, don’t use it. If you look into it further and find it’s not what you thought it was and you feel it would be right ot use it, then go ahead.

    Why are people so afraid of using their God-given brains and conscience?

  • RetroPam

    And, for that matter, why not use God-given prayer? Either God is a living God, here and now, who answers prayer, or He is just a pre-recorded message left approximately 2000 years ago.

  • SAO

    In short: risk death rather than ask your husband to use a condom! Because God cares more about a man getting some nookie than he does about the life of a woman or her children. Frankly, Zsu makes Satanism look good; it would be hard for Satan to be worse than Zsu’s god.

  • Saraquill

    Does this mean Steven harbors a not so secret death wish against his wife?

  • Julia Childress

    I wonder why she never even mentioned condoms, even to condemn them. No fasting of any kind required.

  • Nea

    Because taking agency is scary. It’s admitting that you might make mistakes, that you are responsible for those mistakes, and that sometimes answers to dilemmas aren’t black and white.

    Better to just be told by an authority “do this, don’t do that” and not have to think about it too much.

  • Nea

    Is there a woman who isn’t considered disposable in that culture?

  • Nea

    risk death rather than ask your husband to use a condom!

    No woman in that culture is allowed to say “honey, I’m not in the mood right now” – if she can’t put boundaries on her own body, where would she get the agency to put boundaries on his?

  • FQB

    Observant/Orthodox Jewish couples regularly go without sex during a large portion of that sweet fertile phase, and claim their marriages are stronger for it, so periodic abstention is clearly not “incredibly harmful” to a marriage, per se. I would hazard that one party feeling entitled to demand the other serve them, with no regard for how that second party is feeling, is much more harmful to a marriage. But then I’ve gone and “backslid” so what could I possibly know? /s

  • Rachel

    Seriously, is oral considered a sin? I just can’t consider it anything other than a win-win: you don’t want to risk pregnancy, you don’t want to use birth control, but you still want to have sex? Time to expand your horizons beyond your standard PIV sex.

  • Nightshade

    ‘Because God cares more about a man getting some nookie than he does about the life of a woman or her children.’ You just summed it up perfectly.

  • guest

    Very good point!

  • Julia Childress

    It depends. Some fundies would say it’s okay, some would say it’s okay as foreplay, since in these people’s minds all sex acts must be potentially procreative, some would declare it an act against nature and forbid it. Probably more would do it than admit doing it.

  • adams12

    Because their religion requires them to give their brains and conscience back. No independent thought allowed.

  • pagankitty

    What if the man and the woman both agree to forego sex until the risk of pregnancy is sufficiently low? Why can’t a man control himself ever in this culture? And why is a man’s desire to get his rocks off more important than his wife’s desire to live?

  • texassa

    Grown adults should not be asking others how to engage in sex with their spouse or what is permissible. This is absolute lunacy.

  • Saraquill

    The Virgin Mary perhaps?

  • Julia Childress

    Zsu’s logic is ridiculous. First, the human female can be receptive to sex at any time. With an exciting and loving partner there doesn’t have to be much difference in desire whether fertile or not. By her logic, women on the pill don’t have a period when they desire sex because they don’t ovulate. And not wanting to forego sex when her desire (and fertility) is at its peak? I don’t know about most other women, but knowing that I might become pregnant yet again would be a big bucket of cold water on my ability to enjoy unprotected sex no matter how strong my desire. Just like “the Sabbath is made for man, not man for Sabbath”, I think that sex is for the benefit of the humans who enjoy it responsibility.

  • RetroPam

    And others think of it as the virginity pledge loophole. 😉

  • Aimee Shulman

    One of my mother’s friends went on birth control after the birth of her youngest child because the doctor told her that trying to have another would probably KILL her, and the baby with her. Guess Zsuzsanna would consider her an evil sinful woman for not wanting to die and leave her husband a widower with three little children to raise alone.

  • Karen the rock whisperer

    My husband and I are obviously filthy reprobates, because we decided that having children would be a problem for us and made damned sure I didn’t get pregnant. Fortunately, I tolerated hormonal birth control well. At age 41, he finally convinced his doc to refer him for a vasectomy, and that made the problem go away permanently.

    So what were the reason(s) for our choice and our sin? Why, nobody’s business but our own! (Though they had a lot to do with my fragile mental health and some other issues of my husband’s.) Doesn’t matter if there were a dire medical need to avoid having children, if we were making the decision through pure selfishness (as my mother thought), or if it was somewhere in-between. And frankly, anyone who has the gall to comment on someone else’s reproductive decisions is being breathtakingly arrogant.

    All these opinionated Fundagelicals seem to think they are divine arbiters of what is and is not sin, without any self-doubt at all. It just blows me away. But then, what do I know, I’m just a garden-variety secular Humanist who thinks the very concept of sin is silly, and worries about hurting real, living human beings in meaningful ways. (Saying ‘no’ to sex occasionally when your spouse asks doesn’t count.)

  • Evelyn

    Nah. She was just a vessel, nobody special.

  • paganheart

    “Welcome to our church, please check your brain at the door.”

  • I keep wondering why letting someone else take care of your child for a few hours a day is considered practically abandoning them in that culture, but risking an early death which could leave your child totally in the care of others is A-OK.

  • Well, if you made the decision through pure selfishness (which I doubt, but hypothetically), it’s a good thing you didn’t have kids.

    It’s funny how critics can actually recognize the thought and ethical decision making that people who don’t have children put into making that decision, because if they really thought you were an amoral hedonist, would they want you raising children?

  • AnonCar

    Have you ever read Ami McKay’s The Birth House? I’m re-reading it, and I just got to the part where the woman whose abusive, alcoholic husband keeps impregnating her despite their inability to provide for the overwhelming number of children they have dies after going to the main character for help getting rid of the latest pregnancy. The attitude of the abusive husband in the book seems eerily similar.

  • AnonCar

    Sadly I have a younger cousin in a similar position (although I think at least part of it is her own genuine belief in this type of faith/family structure). Her husband doesn’t like condoms. She won’t use contraceptives (for reasons entirely unknown to me). She just had her fourth child a few months ago. She’s in her early twenties and each pregnancy has been absolutely brutal – to the point of hospitalization, and the older kids are showing signs of having developmental delays/potential placement on the spectrum. I genuinely worry for her and her family. Neither adult has education higher than high school and the babies just keep coming.

  • AnonCar

    martyr status: achieved

  • Karen the rock whisperer

    Exactly! And it distresses me how many people who are very selfish have children, and how that impacts the children while they grow up.

    I’m writing a novel in which one of the main characters (a fortyish adult) grew up in just that kind of environment, and she appears to string the main protagonist along for quite awhile, not committing verbally to their relationship. She finally explains that she heard “I love you” too much growing up, and it didn’t mean anything, so she’s reluctant to admit to it.

  • Nea

    I keep thinking less of literature than of life. What are the chances of Zsu being the next Andrea Yeats?

  • guest

    Because he is her authority, that’s why!

  • guest

    “anyone who has the gall to comment on someone else’s reproductive decisions is being breathtakingly arrogant.”

  • zizania

    I dunno. Back in the day, I remember being horny as all get-out when I had my period, which would be considered taboo in some religious teaching.

  • Karen the rock whisperer

    Thank you. I speak as someone who was hounded for two decades by a woman who wanted grandchildren, regardless of the cost to me.

    It seems like the only appropriate comment on other people’s reproductive choices, other than respect, is between good friends (who might, or might not, be related). That comment is, “I will be happy to be be your sounding board to help you make a decision, but the decision is totally up to you.”

  • Astrin Ymris

    Or possibly the fact that since divorce is verboten, death is the only licit escape from a toxic marriage.

  • DSL Sharron

    This sounds like something that Steven and not poor Zsu would say. She is already suffering so much from being perpetually pregnant. Just from looking at the unhealthy size of Zsu’s legs in the picture of her, her husband and their nine kids on her blog, I can tell she is developing a serious medical problem due to water retention that is pregnancy-related. I really hope she finds a considerate and kind doctor who can tie her tubes without the consent of her husband.