CIA says ISIS has 30000 Fighters. Turkey, Germany Won’t Join in USA-led Bombing.

CIA says ISIS has 30000 Fighters. Turkey, Germany Won’t Join in USA-led Bombing. September 12, 2014

 

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani places ISIS blame on Obama administration (IMAGE SOURCE: Monitor Mideast)

Tweedle dee.

And tweedle dum.

The various nations are playing Say Whaaa? about the president’s plans to bomb ISIS into oblivion.

Turkey — which is the geographic bridge between Europe and the Middle East and a next-door neighbor to Iraq — has decided that they are a no-go. Ditto for our friends in Germany.

According to International Business Times:

Germany’s Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier questioned whether Obama’s plan of airstrikes and equipping moderate Syrian rebels was adequate. “We haven’t been asked, nor will we do it,” he said of the airstrikes. “We need to be honest with ourselves in the current situation, we don’t yet have a final, blanket strategy which guarantees that we’ll be successful against ISIS and similar groups.”

I hate to say this, but that position may be well taken.

If the CIA knows what it’s talking about (always a question) ISIS’ new notoriety and glorious beheading videos have recruited up to 30,000 wannabe serial killers to their ranks.  Bombing, without concomitant strategies to attack their funding, shut down their web sites and deal effectively with the people who are going to them from areas outside the Middle East will not achieve the destruction of ISIS. In fact, it could end up strengthening ISIS.

Meanwhile, the people most at risk from ISIS are joining the US. Ministers from 10 nations in that region committed to joining the US in armed opposition to ISIS.

From Voice of America:

Earlier Thursday, ministers from 10 Gulf and Arab nations said Thursday they are committed to joining the United States in a “coordinated military campaign” against Islamic State fighters who have seized large swaths of Iraq and Syria.After talks in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia with Saudi officials and U.S Secretary of State John Kerry, officials from the Gulf Cooperation Council, along with Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon, said they are united against the threat from all terrorists, including Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL. EgyptNon-Arab Sunni Turkey also attended the talks.

But two other powerful regional powers, Shi’ite-ruled Iran and Syria, were excluded, a sign of how strong the Middle East’s sectarian divide remains.The Arab states agreed in a written communique to take many of the steps U.S. President Barack Obama spelled out Wednesday in his newly articulated strategy for wiping out the militants – stopping the flow of foreign fighters, cutting off funds for Islamic State, providing humanitarian aid to those terrorized by the militants and rejecting what the ministers call their “hateful ideology.”

Notice that these states have agreed to work to cut off funding for ISIS. I can’t emphasize enough how critical that is. It is also critical for us to take a look at who is selling them arms and other supplies. This is large-scale support for mass murder.

The reason this is so important is that ISIS, for all its braggadocio, has no war-making ability in and of itself. None whatsoever. If ISIS cannot buy arms and supplies from actual, functioning governments who do have war-making ability, it is reduced to the knife that one of its murderers bragged about when he killed Steven Sotloff.

If we can cut off their money, stop governments from selling them arms and become more intelligent about the arms we are giving away, the dynamics of this situation will change dramatically and immediately. That includes not buying oil from them. The wells they have seized are stolen property. The money they get from the sale of this oil goes to finance mass murder and the destruction of civilization in a whole region of the world.

Personally, I am a big flummoxed by the plan to bomb ISIS back to the where it came from. It is true that 30,000 organized people with all their armaments are a bit difficult to hide. I have no problem whatsoever with bombing ISIS. I just hope that we actually bomb ISIS and not the surrounding countryside.

However, bombing alone has consistently failed to achieve anything other than chaos and ultimate defeat for those who have employed it. From the Blitzkrieg, to North Viet Nam, to now, bombing as a single tactical exercise has failed. Mind you, I am not advocating “boots on the ground,” (unless we actually do send a planeload of empty boots over there.)

America has had it with war of this type, and for good reason. Even though we carefully block the reality of war from our sight by hiding the disabled soldiers who come home and even, for a long time, refusing to allow photos of the returning caskets, the fact is, we are sending our people to die.

I think we can dismember ISIS by removing their money, refusing re-entry and imprisoning — for life with no parole and no press interviews and in a separate prison — those who join them and want to return to Europe/America/Australia, et al later, and by shutting down the web sites and recruitment venues within our nations. We also need to take a realistic look at our immigration policies.

Congress needs to stop throwing partisan pies at one another long enough to pass the laws we need to defend this nation. The president needs to stop playing the various parts of the electorate and sign those laws. Everyone that we’ve elected needs to start caring about America more than they do their political parties and special interest groups. The number one thing that scares me about this situation is that our elected officials on both sides of the political spectrum are games-players who are have been, at least up until now, unwilling to put America first.

Bombing fails as a single strategy. But it can be a decisive component of a more comprehensive strategy. Number one, before we do much of anything else, we need to stop feeding this beast and begin starving it.

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41 responses to “CIA says ISIS has 30000 Fighters. Turkey, Germany Won’t Join in USA-led Bombing.”

  1. I did not bother to watch Obama’s speech/outline whatever with regards to his so-called plans to destroy ISIS. I listened to the reactions afterwards on talk radio and that was enough for me to come to the conclusion that his heart is just not in it.
    He is reacting to the poll numbers that are screaming for him “to do something about it.” I have two friends who are Iraqi war veterans and they are both already telling me that bombing the daylights out of these ISIS folks ain’t gonna work, PERIOD.

    According to my two friends, ISIS and their supporters will go underground and hide until the bombing campaigns are over. When Obama claims that ISIS is defeated, they will re-surface and become even more vicious than before and no one will be spared in the Middle East or elsewhere…absolutely no one.

    My prayers for those who will suffer even more as a result, especially those in closer proximity to ISIS than us in the U.S.

    I still believe our time will come…all a matter of time.

    I continue to pray in the meantime.

  2. Unfortunately, there are a lot of weapons in that area already — for example, in depots maintained by the Iraqi and Syrian governments, and in the weapons they might get from the “good mujahideen” that Obama and McCain want to arm, either due to defections or as spoils of war. Cutting off the weapons flow is important, but it’s not a quick fix.

    • You may have missed it, but there are chemical weapons in Iraq and where do you think Syria got theirs? Hint : Sadam Hussein sent them to Syria.

  3. Our traditional allies, including Turkey, do not trust our leaders. They leave and leave everyone hanging. The worst strategy is bombing, then leaving. We should have finished the job in the first place.
    Btw bombing North Viet Nam did a great deal. Then as now, we left before the job was done.
    There have to be interests being protected that do not want to bear the burden of closing down those accounts.
    It is funny that all the Dems are silent or encouraging military action now. There is lots of politics involved.
    We need to pray for conversion of the Muslims.

    • Pray as if it all depends on God working through others in answer to our prayers and work as if it all depends on God working through you in answer to the prayers of others (but especially through the one single, infinite prayer of Jesus for everyone at every point of time and space.
      I have a “crazy” idea. I am hoping that you will pass this on to people in and out of the military who see the situation in the world as not solvable by the present “inside the box” thinking and who might be open to running this “outside the box” idea up the flagpole to see if it can be improved upon, knowing that if it fails, nothing is really lost, but if it succeeds, we might be able to bring all the men and women home alive, and that one hope makes it worth giving God a chance by us trying to cooperate with Him. Yes, I know it is long, but, I am not able to say it shorter and I would not know what to take out. I am hoping that people who are looking into the future and the thousands, and maybe millions, of lives that may be lost, I an hoping they will be willing to read all of this and pass it on so others can reduce and improve it. Thank you

      I have a question for reporters and all peace loving individuals to give to all ISIS members in the hope they will ask their ISIS leaders to answer publicly. Will any leader opposed to ISIS actions publicly ask this question, along with the starting verifiable fact below, of ISIS LEADERS?
      Starting verifiable fact:
      ISIS members believe (or at least claim) that they believe they are doing the “will of Allah” in what they are doing. I, along with many others, believe God IS so infinitely good, merciful, and powerful that He Wills to, and therefore must be, turning the whole world right side up to the one Faith He wants all to have by His peaceful means, without violating anyone’s free will, by His grace, through verifiable evidence and His questions that He wants to give His answers to.
      The Question:
      Are ISIS leaders and their religious mentors going to publicly say all who agree with me are wrong and publicly say that God cannot be so infinitely good, merciful, and powerful so as to turn the whole world right side up to the one Faith He wants all to have by His peaceful means, without violating anyone’s free will, through the verifiable evidence and His questions that He wants to give His answers to,

      OR
      are they going to admit that God is doing what we say He is doing, turning the whole world right side up by His peaceful means to the one Faith He wants all to have without violating anyone’s free will, through verifiable evidence and His questions that He wants to give His answers to, but they still want their followers to resort to violence, hate and murder in the name of “cooperating” with God’s plan of peace?

      OR

      Is it possible God will convince some to reject the violence they have previously resorted to, rejecting the violence in favor of converting the world through God’s grace working through God’s questions and verifiable evidence, God’s peaceful plan?
      What will ISIS members think of their leaders who do not choose option three? That perhaps those leaders do not believe their faith is the one faith God is leading all to, by His grace, through his questions and verifiable evidence? If the members start to question their leaders, where might it go?
      Should not all laity of all faiths do all they can to “help” all ministers of all faiths to publicly proclaim their belief that God is so infinitely good, merciful and powerful that He is turning the whole world right side up to the one Faith He wants all to accept and profess by peaceful means without violating anyone’s free will and therefore all should publicly renounce violent aggression and terrorism as a tactic in doing God’s Will?
      Should all laity expect all ministers of all faiths to find and provide the verifiable evidence and related questions they believe God is using, with His grace, to bring all people to the one Faith God wants all to accept and believe by His peaceful means?
      Should all laity find the best verifiable evidence and related questions they can, post them on electronic media, and carry them on slips of paper in their wallets and purses to be handed to others whom they dialogue with, all in an effort to help people, in the security of their homes and hearts, to seek God’s answer and the one Faith He wants all to have without having to argue with or convince the person giving them the slip of paper?

      I have a few starter questions on my blog eternalvisionfarmer.blogspot.com under the title, “some questions… Aug. 18” and I have, there, a more detailed outline of a possible program under which all ministers of all faiths would be expected to provide what they have found to be the best questions, coupled with verifiable evidence, for helping people come to the one faith God wants all to accept and this is under the title, “Shortened version, June 7, poster idea”.

    • Both Obama and Hillary have confessed that they opposed the Iraq war for political calculations. The majority of the democrats shamelessly did likewise. And the media did the same. Otherwise we would still have a force in Iraq and this ISIS phenomenon would probably not have happened or if it had we would be in a position to neutralize them. After the loss of so many of our brave soldiers’ lives, limbs and so much else to take control of that country Obama threw that all away, and here we are again.

      • Bob, Hillary voted for the Iraq war. It was something that Obama used against her in the primaries. If memory serves, the media was pretty much gung-ho about the war, as was most of Congress.

        • The media and the dems. were initially, at least,, supportive. That changed as they saw a chance to make political hay out of it.

  4. Hey, I’ll make you a neoconservative yet! The president did just enough to pass the political hurdle. A bombing strategy will freeze ISIS but I can’t see how they can be ejcted/annihlated. You need troops physically taking back and controlling terrain. As a military force, ISIS is not that powerful, but you don’t win something with nothing. We need to be in the country anyway. Before Obama disasterously pulled out our troops, the military assessment was we needed 10,000-15,000 troops to help the country and the region maintain stability. Send those troops in now to fight ISIS and leave them there afterward.

  5. One other thing. Can we end this inane phrase of “boots on the ground?” It’s as if we can parachute the inventory of a shoe store down to the ground and that will solve the problem. 😉

  6. It is NOT true that we were “refusing to allow photos of the returning caskets.” This is a LIE.

    I was following Army Times during the Iraq years, and saw scores of funerals, with flag-draped caskets, honor guards, and often whole small towns turning out en masse to honor our fallen heroes.

    Our slimey big time “journalists” almost entirely refused to cover these funerals. Most of which were open to the press, unless the family objected. Thousands of funerals and caskets were reported and pictured by small-town papers. and ignored by the mainstream “press.”

    The controversy arose because the press wanted to photograph caskets coming into Dover AFB. Which was refused for the good reason that at that point they were just boxes being transshipped to other points. Which is why the press wanted to photograph them, to create “grim statistics” and ugly pictures, just as they gloated over death totals, while giving no honor to our fallen soldiers.

  7. Sorry, I dsagree with everything you said as positive proposals. Let me go through them.

    1) “If we can cut off their money….” Are you even aware that the Muslim world has a whole structure, perhaps more than one, of parallel finance transfers, tht does not rely on “official” banking at all? And that is only the biggest of the many problems in the way of any attempt to “cut off their money.” Do tell me, how successful have the USA and their allies been in “cutting off the money” of drugs cartels?

    2) “…stop governments from selling them arms…” ISIS have enough resources to build their own, not to mention enormous stores left over from collapsed Syrian and Iraqi armies. AT any rate, starving them of advanced weaponry is only relevant if they look forward to a war with an efficient and advanced military – Turkey, Israel, perhaps Egypt or Iran. They don’t – at least for now. For the game they are playing, the weapons they have and can build are enough and more than enough.

    3) “…and become more intelligent about the arms we are giving away…” Do you mean that you can foresee the future? Because only that could have prevented, for instance, the weapons given to America’s solid friend Reza Pahlevi from falling into the hands of her bitter enemy Ruhollah Khomeini. Once you give someone a weapon, you don’t know where it is going to end up. End of story.

    4) “…the dynamics of this situation will change dramatically and immediately. That includes not buying oil from them. ” Not gonna happen. There are as many covert and illegal interests ready to buy and smuggle oil as there are crooks ready to sell it. It would be another “war on drugs” type fiasco.

    You decry the idea of bombing as the alternative to actual war, and you are right – even more than you realize, since “strategic” bombing has never been anything but a misguided waste of resources; but all these strategies you propose are equally delusionary. They all amount to the pious hope that it will ever be possible to wage war without waging war. Once you have decided that it is necessary to fight an enemy, then you can only do two things. Either fight them yourself, with soldiers and guns and ships and planes. Or find someone else who is willing to fight your enemy and back them – contrary to your point 3 – without stint. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Right now they are fighting your fight. If, once that is over, they will turn out to be your enemy, that will be the time to be concerned with that.

      • They are very good at bulding things that kill and destroy. There are artisans in Afghanistan who can make a whole Kalashnikov by hand, good as the original. And think of the ever-improving hand-made rockets from Gaza.

  8. France will bomb. Iraq’s new leader forbade his forces from indiscriminate bombing that can kill e.g. captured women in Sinjar. These are both good news items. Celebrate with French crepes…2 cups milk, 1 cup flour, 3 eggs, 2 tblspns melted butter, dash of salt, electric wisk….favorite jam in middle…..or scallops in sauce breval in middle. Pray each day for captives of IS without fail. They live in dread…remember that each day.

    • What I know France armies raped Algerian women to mad in rape camp at colonial times.Coalition discredit isis in order to kill them.At the past France is a colonial force same as America.who killing Arabs for their oils.

      • Zabada, I deleted another comment of yours because it referenced a book at is well known on a historical basis as an Anti-Semitic hate book. It is not factual, and is designed to make people hate one another. I don’t allow links to such things on this blog.

        As for ISIS, they’ve released photos themselves that do all the discrediting I need. You may be right about France. I don’t know. What I do know is that if you are right, it still does not excuse other people doing the same thing today.

        The question of what part oil plays in all this is a valid one. I hope you’ll pursue that.

  9. General Giap stated in his account of the vietnam war, that the bombing was effective and the North would have been forced to surrender if we had continued it.. But this is a different war and a different era.
    unless and until the guerilla fighters come out of their holes and consolidate, bombing will have limited effect ( just my opinion, i could be wrong). Go after the money and the immigration as well as conducting counter terrorist operations. You are right.

    • General Giap did not make the decisions. The decisions were made in Moscow. Otherwise peace would have been made after the failure of the Tet offensive. And I distrust memories by devoted Communist apparatchiks anyway.

  10. Bombing them will only get you so far. Boots on the ground to kill them will only get you so far.

    The problem is ISLAM! Everything else is secondary.

    The sooner people acknowledge that our civilization is in a life-and-death struggle for survival, the better.

    What’s happening with ISIS today is nothing new with the history of islam. 7th century barbarism is always under the surface with islam. Nations that have “moderate” (non-practicing) islam today could become “radical” (practicing) tomorrow. Today it is happening in Iraq and Syria, if we bomb them to oblivion, then in 50-100 years it could be someplace else.

    You can bomb them back to the stone age, you can send hundreds of thousands of american boys into that hellhole to snuff them out of their holes. That is only a short-term solution! You’re putting a band-aid on a cancer tumor.

    What will happen 100 years from now, when a new ISIS emerges in another part of the world? What if another ISIS overthrows the Pakistani government? And instead of an ISIS armed with guns, and humvees, you now have an ISIS that’s armed with nuclear weapons right next door to the non-muslim country of India?

    If you’re unwilling to call-out islam for what it is, and deal with it for what it is, and not sugarcoat it, you will get no where. Period. ISIS is what islam is. The calif has a PhD in “islamic studies”, someone with those credentials should know what he’s talking about! Face that unpleasant fact now, or let your descendants face it in the future.

    Unless you shine a light on islam right now and show it for what it really is, and convince muslims to leave their false death-cult founded by their mass-murdering, narcissistic, demon-hearing pedophile madman in huge numbers you won’t see any progress. You’ll just be prolonging the war.

  11. Germans are a bunch of latte drinking pansies who forget who’s been funding all their defense since 1945, while they spend on their money on 6 week vacations yearly and more, free medical and dental and social welfare for all in Germany. And this is how Germany thanks us with slap in the face. No, Germans can’t tolerate harsh conditions, they like their champagne and caviar and the nice cushy cozy plush life, that’s why Germany couldn’t beat Russia because a Russian soldier can eat a potato from the field and keep fighting, but a German soldier needs to have his plush bed to sleep in and his good meals and clothes. I think the USA should cut off all monies to Germany and then let’s see if they can sustain their “Good Life” the same goes for those treasonous dumb Spaniards who are a bunch of cowards.

    • Jaime, I’m going to allow this because you’re new here. First, no name-calling. Second, no name-calling. Third, no-name calling.

  12. Zabada, I think you are trying to make some interesting points about American foreign policy that are worth discussing. I’m allowing this because of that and because you are new here.

    Please do not engage in racist talk, including, anti-semitism. Also, try to explain what you’re saying better. Keep you comments short by only making one point in a comment. If you try to explain everything here, it would be a book.

    Most people who will read this don’t have the background to “get” what you are trying to say, so you need to explain your thinking better.

    • I will say the truth when i open my mouth..racist or hatred emerge when a nation oppressed others.If all nation are helping each others ,not killing and oppress others or invade others no word “racist”.will be written on any page..America foreign policy will bring their down fall in near future..not only me said that..if it also American scholars said the same.It is not America policy,it is Israel policy planted in White House.For sure.

      • Ok.

        Why do you say that American foreign policy is actually Israel’s foreign policy? I’m not trying to challenge you, I’m trying to coach you about how to frame your argument so that it can be discussed.

        FWIW, I delete comments that attack Muslims, as well as those that attack Jews. I also have deleted comments that attack atheists, Buddhists, Republicans, Democrats and many public people when they get personal and become hate speech.

        This is not a hate blog. It’s a think blog.

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