Why Do Christians Leave the Faith? Breaking-up with a God Who Failed Them

Part 2 in a series on deconversion.

In a study of religious deconversion, we analyzed 50 on-line testimonies posted by former Christians, and in these testimonies we found four general explanations for deconversion. The first explanation, which I wrote about last week, regarded intellectual and theological concerns about the Christian faith. The second, which I elaborate here, regards a failed relationship with God. Almost half (22 of 50) of the writers expressed sentiments that in some way God had failed them by His not doing what they thought He should.

God’s perceived failure took various forms, most of which fall under the general heading of “unanswered prayers.”

One way that people felt that God had failed them happened when He did not respond to requests for help during difficult times. A young man raised in a Baptist church epitomized this feeling of failure when he wrote about God not answering his prayers about family difficulties. He wrote: “The first time I questioned the faith was when my grandmother shriveled up in front of me for 6 month’s due to cancer. I was 13 & my mother & father [were] getting a divorce. My father told me I should have been aborted. I prayed to God but nothing fails like prayers.”

Likewise, a woman raised in a Methodist household described her step-father as “cruel and abusive” to her, and she could not understand why “if God loves me, why won’t he protect me instead of letting this happen to me?”

In a variation of this theme, some deconverts lamented God’s inactivity amidst spiritual
difficulties. A man in his forties, a former elder at a charismatic church, wrote: “In my own life, no matter how much I submitted to ‘God’ and prayed in faith, ‘sin’ never seemed to leave me. Well, what’s the point of being ‘saved’ if you aren’t delivered from ‘sin’?”

A former Southern Baptist described the various good things that God failed to give him: “God promises me a lot in the bible and he’s not come through. Ask and it shall be given. Follow me and I will bless you. I promise you life and promise abundance. Man should not be alone. I have a plan for you. Give tithe and I will reward you. All broken promises. This god lacks clarification. This god lacks faith in me. He wants my faith. I want his too.”

Other writers took a different approach to God’s failures. They too sought God’s help,
but when they did not receive it, they simply concluded that God did not exist. A former member of an Assemblies of God church explicitly linked unanswered prayers and the existence of God: “How many humble and totally selfless prayers offered up to and ignored by the imaginary skydaddy does it take for the average person to finally throw in the towel and say [God doesn’t exist]!!!!” His answer: “Too damn many.”

Still others sought a tangible sign of God’s presence. A former Pentecostal exclaimed: “There were many nights while in bed I would ask God to show me the truth, or give me some type of sign to show that he or she existed. These prayers would never be answered. So I would just go on with my life having doubts.” Likewise, a former Baptist missionary wrote: “I’ve begged God to show himself to me and put an end to my inner torture. So far it hasn’t happened and the only thing I know for sure is that I have unanswered questions.”

I am struck by how much these accounts resonate with sociological theories of human relationships, especially those coming from social exchange theory. This theory describes humans as judging the value of relationships in terms of costs and benefits. One variation of social exchange theory, termed equity theory, holds that people are satisfied with their relationships when they get the rewards that they feel are proportional to the costs that they bear. An inequitable is unstable, and it usually occurs because a person thinks they receive too little for how much they give.

Many of the testimonies given by former Christians described a broken relationship with God as one might talk about a marital divorce. They are emotional, even bitter at times. They contain the language of inequality. The writers did so much for God – praying, attending church, following God – but God did not do enough in return.

Some of the writers were quite explicit about this inequality. A former Roman Catholic lamented God’s inaction during the writer’s teenage years. “I prayed and prayed and things never got better . . . in fact they got worse. So I was like fine . . . this . . . if god can turn his back on me . . . I can do the same [i.e., turn his back on God].”

Based on this explanation for deconversion, Christians pastors and other leaders would do well to teach periodically on how to handle disappointment with God. In particular,
• Why does God sometimes not answer prayer?
• What we can and cannot expect from God?

We noticed that much of the frustration vented toward God in these testimonials regarded events that occurred in childhood and adolescence. This suggests that addressing issues of disappointment with God is particularly important to do with young people.

Part 3: The Problem of Responding Badly to Doubt

  • Robin Winterlin

    Great thoughts, Brad. As a pastor I applaud your lifting up the need to talk in our cultural context about God, fulfillment, and disappointment. We have a culture of “meet my need, my way, and do it FAST.” The Biblical God never supports such a concept. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t taught to expect this or hold up this type of “fast food faith” in our churches. Also, I noticed how many of the respondents mention an abusive or absent father. They would not self-report this being the reason, but I find, time and again, an abusive or absent father (even if the person does not conceive of God as a father) is a huge stumbling block in their spiritual journey. So much so that it almost always stunts spiritual growth if unhealed. God’s blessings on you as you help us with your research and thoughts, friend!

    • Lynda Falls

      I sense a deep pain in people and nowhere to turn for help. People are desperately hurting, frustrated and alone. I think when they look for mercy and help many find resentment, anger and indifference rather than compassion and reaching out.

      Jude 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

      Galatians 6:2

      Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

  • http://www.briercrest.ca/facultyprofile.asp?facultyName=CharlesHackney&facultyId=132 Charles

    I find it discouraging that equity theory works as an approach to relationship functioning. I see it as a consequence of our culture’s emphasis on individual satisfaction as the standard for evaluating how well thing function. Blaine Fowers, a psychologist at the University of Miami, published a book a while ago on his work in marriage counseling (I had to get the book if for no other reason than the title: Beyond the Myth of Marital Happiness). Being neo-Aristotelian in orientation, Fowers wants to ask the teleological question: what is the purpose of marriage? Why be married? What are you two trying to accomplish? Fowers found that the majority of clients hadn’t ever thought to ask that question. Getting married is just something that you’re supposed to do. Probing deeper, Fowers found clients to hold an implicit “telos”, namely that the purpose of marriage is their own emotional satisfaction. That being the purpose, a marriage is then evaluated as functioning or malfunctioning based on how personally satisfied the individual is. This is why equity theory works. People can then take the same attitude to other relationships, including the relationship with God. The “telos” of being religious is my own satisfaction. If I get what I want, then the religion is working. If I don’t, then it’s not working. This attitude can be held, even though it is in direct contradiction to the clear statements in the Bible and various theologies that my satisfaction is not the “telos”, and that God doesn’t promise sunshine and roses every day of my life. If we latch on to pseudo-Christian doctrines such as the prosperity gospel or (Christian Smith’s term) moralistic therapeutic deism, of course we will be disappointed when life takes a dump on our heads!

    On a more lighthearted note, I addressed some issues like these (from a psychological more than sociological standpoint) as a guest author over at the “Cheese-wearing Theology” blog in an examination of the Sci Fi TV show “Firefly”: http://cdntheologianscholar.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/firefly-and-the-psychology-of-religion-complete-series/

    Gordon Allport argued that magical thinking (prayer is about manipulating God into getting what I want) is a characteristic of religious immaturity. Successfully navigating struggles such as those you describe can be a time for spiritual growth. Failure to successfully navigate them can lead to despair and deconversion.

  • http://sandwichesforsale.blogspot.com DagoodS

    I wrote a blog entry responding to some of this. I’m not expecting a reply—I just like to know when others utilize my blog entries, and figure politeness demands I return the favor.

  • http://Facebook Kathie

    Well, this is my feeling on this Really” important question. God has had so much mercy & love for his children through out my life time, especially in my bad times when I couldn’t see it, till later I realized how he blessed me & took care of me & my loved ones. This kind of question doesn’t surprise me though as we get closer to his coming… The enemy will put doubt in your minds against the Lord our God. Enemy wants to kill and destroy that’s his mission for you everlasting pain. I Thank God for his only begotton Son who gave his pure life, so that I can Choose” to believe in him. We all have trials& tribulations…..

    • deepblue9

      Well,”well done” for “choosing” correctly.

  • http://paimeiitguy.wordpress.com Lui S

    A timely devotional series from my pastor on “unanswered prayers” – “O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but I find no rest.” Psalm 22:2

    For reflection, prayer, and repentance:
    1. Are we praying and asking for the “wrong” things?
    2. God’s answer (or non-answer) isn’t “final”.
    3. There is good in suffering, even if we don’t understand God’s will in this and why.
    4. Remember the type of relationship with God is not where we demand or dictate to Him. God is sovereign and in control always.

    I believe it comes down to obedience and faith – are we mindful of this?

    • deepblue9

      Standard answer. It’s just no good.

    • Lawrence

      This is the three card monty that prayer represents….a non stop litany of spiritual loopholes to play whenever God ignores the prayers of the lost and suffering. Let me take your points one at a time.
      1. I dunno. I figure asking for God to cure thinks like cancer or addiction in others were worthy causes. Asking God for how to become the best person I could be was, I thought, preferable to asking for, say, a Ferrari.
      2. “God’s answer (or non answer) isn’t final.” Well, it’s easy for Him to drag His divine feet when all His bills are paid, when His career goals have all been realized, when no relative of His is currently suffering, when He isn’t in debt, and His future doesn’t hang in the balance. Fact is, He if he cares at all, He gets off on our suffering.
      3. The Good in suffering is the PLEASURE God gets in our suffering. He was willing to throw Job, a righteous man, under the bus in order to prove a point to Satan, who actively opposed Him, while people who are struggling to hear from God, to have their faith renewed as eagles, are ignored.
      4. It comes down to faith, huh? Ever hear the statement faith without works is dead? That’s a two way street. It makes sense that if you pray repeatedly and repeatedly God refuses to answer your prayer, you are going to lose faith in God’s willingness to hear or answer them.

      • Old Joe

        If he throws Job under the bus just to prove a point to Satan that would be bad but in the real story Job 40:10 The Lord turned the captivity of Job and RESTORED HIS FORTUNES, when he prayed for his friends; (our horizontal relationships are important…forgive us as we forgive our trespassers) ALSO the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.. The book starts with Job being the greatest of all the men in the east. This does not sound like the language of a loser if he ended with twice as much as he had before the ‘bus’ ran over him!

  • http://www.seekingfaithfulnessblog.blogspot.com Holly

    Well, yeah. Those can be “toughies” to answer.

    It takes a reframing, a moving from “Why did this happen” to “Look at what He brought me through!” It takes moving from feeling so alone, to being able to see the ways God was truly with the individual. How do we know what he has saved us from? What could we have learned from the struggle if we had stuck with it? Where would we be right now, if we had?

    I think, maybe, that this reveals how very, very important it is for us to live in community (although, yes, everyone says this…) We need each other, we need stronger “others” to interpret God’s action and movement and involvement in our lives for us. Isolation causes such problems, as do inadequate engagement/answers from clergy, trusted and involved friends.

    I am sorry to comment so often – the things you write about fascinate me, however. The “testimonies” are so….sad.

    • deepblue9

      Wow, you’re so condescending. What makes you think you have the truth?

  • http://adamjcopeland.com Adam Copeland

    Thanks for this post, the previous, and the forthcoming. Are you planning to publish these in a journal article? I’m referring to them briefly in a paper and looking for the best citation.

    • http://www.brewright.com Bradley Wright

      Hello Adam, If it’s an article aimed at the general population, you can simply refer to this blog. If it’s in a scholarly article, could you send me an e-mail and I’ll send you the full citation. (I’m traveling now). Thanks for citing it!

      Brad

  • http://www.juliaduin.com Julia Duin

    As the author of the 2008 book “Quitting Church,” I have deep sympathy for people who’ve left the faith. Face it, folks: The Bible makes many promises. Jesus’ ‘blue sky’ promises in all four gospels that basically say if we ask something in His name we will get it, don’t work. And no, He didn’t attach caveats to His promises – like so many pastors do – either, ie it has to be in God’s will, etc. etc. No, Jesus just outright said He was going to the Father basically so that whatever we asked, especially if we asked in concert with each other, would happen so that God would be glorified. I agree with the findings of the writers here that disappointment with God and unanswered prayer are uppermost in our minds but do we ever hear honest sermons about this that have some teeth? Never. It’s the big elephant in the middle of the room and after awhile, people decide they can’t live a lie. Or that if Christianity isn’t working for them, there’s nowhere to go to process this or ask questions without some nasty criticism. So they check out completely. And the biggest faith crises aren’t with the 20-somethings; it’s with the 40-and-over group; those believers who have hung in there until they can’t hang anymore.

    • KeepSmilin

      The biggest blunder almost all Christians make is the assumption that when Yeshua said something, it was meant for everyone, especially great promises like, “Ask whatever you will and it will be done for you”. Really??? Where do seem to find the justification that whatever he spoke he meant for everyone? There is nothing to back that up. When he spoke most of those great promises, they were almost exclusively for his Apostles and those initial disciples who he commanded to go out and spread the Gospel. And yes, many great things were done by those men. But because it was written down, Christians have ever since seemed to feel entitled to it as well. Well you’re wrong. You’re not entitled to anything. Yeshua even said that you would always have trouble and the poor would always be with you. But you manage to twist God’s word to make it sound like God owes us something. He owes us nothing. Being a believer in His son doesn’t suddenly give you some kind of special exclusive access to God’s cookie jar, as if you can just help yourself with whatever you want. Christians need to get over themselves. They are not treated by God any different than unbelievers. His own Son clearly stated that God lets the rain fall on both the good and evil.

      • Matthew Whiddon

        If all the promises for good things from God are just statements taken out of context and applied to modern situations without justification then doesn’t that mean the whole bible is in fact that? Never does God or Jesus make a Ferris Bueller type side comment to the audience to let us know, ignore this stuff but pay attention to this. This “God didn’t mean it for everyone” seems to be a last ditch attempt to address God’s total failure in ever answering any prayer.

      • Anthony uren

        “They are not treated any different to inbelievers.”So what is the point of having the creator of the universe in my life ,saying he “Loves” me when that is not going to mean anything?Ive known Jesus most of my life and all I can do now after 30 years of trying is ask well Jesus where is the love EH?Ive had masses of persecution,both from the world and from the fakes in Church and all He can do is give me more of the same so He can keep his so called love.In Church those who are from middleclass homes dominate and exclude anyone who doesnt fit with their culture.Im sick to death literally with Jesus promising love and all I get is crap.

        • Lynda Falls

          Jesus does love us, however Christians are supposed to love one another and bear one another’s burdens. Christians are supposed to be known by their love, by the fruit of the Spirit, but so many can only get very angry if they come across a wounded Christian in need. They think how is that my business or what am I going to get out of this, or how dare they try to take any of my time, even if they preach about those things. Even if that Christian previously helped them and or many other people. It seems many preachers just want to preach and collect tithes and offerings. It seems many Christians just want to attend clubs that tickle their ears and resent any suggestions of truly loving like the good Samaritan, forgiving , loving enemies, kindness and compassion, the fruit of the Spirit. Some Christians seem like modern day Pharisees, they make sure not to commit adultery and not to smoke etc, easy things that they pick and choose to follow, but the hard things that require dying to self, such as loving like the good Samaritan and forgiveness and being meek and dying to self and loving like 1 Corinthians 13 and getting rid of pride and arrogance and admitting mistakes etc., they rather get very angry about it. They take tithes and offerings and yes they do donate some to third world countries or other poor and some to missionaries but seems they have to give some if they want to keep taking tithes and offerings, but seems many give as little as possible just to keep the money coming in.

          Romans 5:5
          and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

          1 John 3

          14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1 John 3
          Matthew 5:44

          But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

          1 Corinthians
          13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

          4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

          8 Charity never faileth:

          Luke 6:33-35

          Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

          33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. he sensed, he spoke about his feelings. Is pride more important than being meek? Can you feel empathy? Sense his pain? Try to understand and reach out on love, care, compassion and kindness?

        • Lynda Falls

          One thing never changes though and that is that fact that Jesus gave up His glory in heaven and came to earth and lived as an example and then died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected on the third day. He forgives our sins and washes us clean and has prepared a place in heaven for us to live with Him for eternal life and not perish. Jesus is Lord and Saviour and has all authority and a great plan of salvation for us, a hope and a future with Him. Jesus does love us, but sure would be great if Christians could begin loving each other without giving up living holy pure lives of obedience and all the while giving up pride and self righteous arrogance.

    • Lynda Falls

      People are hurting and have no one to turn to and so many other Christians have no love and resent hurting people and resent those with questions and really resent people who thought they would find love in the church or who may need some time or love.

      2 Chronicles 7:14
      IF
      my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

      Matthew 6:33

      But SEEK YE FIRST the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
      food and clothes will be provided if we seek Jesus first

  • Mary

    My leaving the faith did not have to do with prayers not answered, however, I did notice that despite all the people in the church praying for those with cancer or terminal illnesses never were any healed. I hear Christians share answer to prayers that really do not appear to be any different to unbelievers. My heart breaks when I see the mothe’s in Africa holding their babies and begging god to give their children food and yet still the babies dies. I hurt for the young child raped by an adult, the people killed because of earthquakes, and I think if there is a god he/she could have done a better job when creating this world.

  • DoOrDoNot

    Sermons, Christian radio, Christian books, and Christian friends repeatly offer testimony and encouragement that God is with us and loves us and back this up with story after story of God’s intervention or appearance: a healing, a whisper in the ear, a vision, an open parking space! Is it any wonder that those with unanswered prayers and no experience of God’s presence would then doubt His presence or love for them?

    • KeepSmilin

      Sure, because God has more concern about providing a parking space than helping a man save his marriage or his child from dying. You really are one f%cked up soul.

  • http://paimeiitguy.wordpress.com Lui S

    The Book of Hebrews anyone? Certainly these issues aren’t new just for today’s believer. Being a Christ follower is tough going, hard work, and that’s not inconsistent with all that Jesus promises and gave to us. In return, what we get is immeasurable and eternal. We need to take care not to “use” our humanity to understand or judge God’s will for it will always be a limited understanding, IMO.

    In any event, I’m glad for this blog and this series. This is one of those proverbial elephants in the room that needs to be tackled head on – sooner, rather than later.

  • Christy

    I think you are being overly reductive in your interpretation. I’m a deconvert myself, and I think it’s a much deeper issue than unanswered prayer. (And I’m not an atheist – Christianity and atheism are not the only two options.) I was a Christian for years after I stopped asking God for stuff. For me, I got tired of pretending the Christian narrative made any sense, and pretending that I knew what everyone else was talking about, this personal God who spoke to people and saved them and had a plan and was intimately involved in the world, this God who was supposedly with me, even though I had no experience that that was so. I realized that the fear of going to hell was the only reason I was still in the fold.

    I experienced Christianity as psychologically and spiritually destructive and alienating for the first 32 years of my life – I attended 2 Christian colleges, worked at a third, was a youth pastor for a bit, raised my own support, went on mission trips. I volunteered in youth groups, faith-based organizations, did small groups, spiritual direction, retreats, and have interacted with a wide spectrum of Christianity – so I feel like I gave the God of the Bible ample opportunity to demonstrate his presence.

    Is my perspective influenced by my crappy childhood? Of course – just as I’m sure your perspective is influenced by your experiences. I know a whole lot of Christians with bad or absentee fathers. If bad daddies caused deconversion from Christianity, churches would be much emptier than they are.

    There are a number of people for whom Christianity just doesn’t work, and a few sermons on unanswered prayer aren’t going to change that.

    • http://www.brewright.com Bradley Wright

      Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Christy. I realize that it goes beyond just unanswered prayer, but what you write sounds a lot like some of the narratives that we read (and wrote about)… reacting to not experiencing the presence of God. Good, and sad, point about if bad fathers caused deconversion….

  • Allie

    I believe a HUGE reason why people leave the faith is because of ego. As sinful humans, we don’t want to give God any control over our lives. This may sound harsh, but it is the truth. A lot of deconversion ‘testimonies’ that I have looked over and examined over the past year and a half (most, if not all of them on the internet) are very self-centered and have a lot to deal with hubris, or intellectual pride. We want to have control over what God does in our lives and how much He is involved. Maybe the reason why God doesn’t our prayers directly is because we ultimately want to be glorified, not God. The main idea in Christianity is that you cannot work for your salvation, that salvation comes from God alone so that way He is glorified.

    I’ve been going through doubt (it’s mainly a result of depression and anxiety that I’ve been dealing with and ignorance of the Bible, not so much intellectual issues) for about a year and a half and I have been struggling with hubris. I am a discerned person by nature and it’s hard for me to trust people, including my family members, and it affects my prayer life and relationship with Christ. I’ve realized that I have been quenching the Holy Spirit, which is causing my anxiety and my thoughts to go crazy, and not letting God have control. Quenching the Spirit is the most damaging thing to one’s faith in Christ as well as being way too concerned about what others think of my faith, and sometimes blowing it way out of proportion. I’ve doubted my salvation ever since I was saved and it was because I quenched the Holy Spirit. I wanted to share Christ with my unbelieving friends and wanted to do it perfectly, but I thought about the worst case scenarios, so I avoided sharing my faith. God does not expect us to be perfect but expects us to be real and to give Him control. This reminds me of 2 Corinthians 12 where Paul is talking about the thorn in his side and he asked God to take it away three times. God didn’t take it away because he wanted Paul to understand that God would be glorified in his weakness and he had nothing to worry about. I tend to worry a lot and I shouldn’t.

    • http://(none) Sam

      You do have a significant point , Allie. I am a cradle Catholic and I have never entertained any thought of leaving the faith and the one time I was asked were I to do that was when I was asked by a non-Catholic who upon learning I was a Charismatic Catholic, asked me when I was going to leave the Church. My response was that I would have to give up too much by leaving. My personal observation over the years has been that many times persons are drawn away because of poor catechization with the consequence that they are unable to discern/understand what they are giving up. (A lifelong study of our Catholic faith is necessary for the proper practice of it) about 30 years ago I was probably on the verge of despair over a personal situation, was storming Heaven with MY solution when God intervened manifesting His love for me and everyone, showing me that I needed to be able to honestly to Him: “OK Lord, whatever way You want it to be, that’s OK with me!” The situation was resolved within the next few weeks. WE cannot and must not try to manipulate/order God to do what we are asking for. I was at an intercessory prayer meeting where on woman emphatically said “we order YOU!” Man can only propose but God disposes according to HIS plan for our lives. The down side of free will is that because of concupiscence, we can make wrong choices that can lead to loss of Heaven. God bless……

    • Lynda Falls

      I think the cold indifference people have in church instead real love, the kind in 1Corinthians 13 and the kind like the good Samaritan showed, the real love and compassion and care that takes time and is full of mercy and meekness rather than self righteous pride. I still think people should live a holy pure life in obedience to Jesus just with real love.

  • BJ

    In addition to God Himself seeming not to answer prayers, or at least not do so in a way that we like, I am becoming a borderline Christian because of the way fellow believers have treated me. In sixth grade, my teacher accused me of lying about my salvation, because I was not getting good grades, and I was bullied by fellow believers at that school and church. Thirty years later, I still remember those small things, and ask–what possible benefit could God have intended for me in all that? Or for the teacher and students, fellow conservative believers all, who behaved so badly toward me? In my work and personal dealings today, I have found fellow believers to be no better and no worse than anybody else.

    I believe we as Christians have a duty to watch out for and care for each other, above and beyond the norm, almost as much as we do for our own families. We can also be resources for each other, providing meaningful assistance and encouragement that the rest of the world does not provide. I wish that would be what people think of about church, first. Today, I donate to Christian causes, but only those that give practical assistance to people in need, and do not make it contingent on any faith discussions, etc.

    I am a teacher today, and I am grateful for my experience in the Christian schools–a great reminder of who I do not want to be in dealing with my high-risk/high-need students and their families.

    Thanks for a thought-provoking discussion.

    • Leorah

      I’m not sure if you’re going to read this a month after the fact, but I just came across this discussion tonight. (And what a help it’s been to me!) I wasn’t going to add a comment–it was enough just to read everyone else’s and know that I wasn’t alone in these feelings–but something that you said just reached out and grabbed me.

      You asked, “What possible benefit could God have intended for me in all that?” I think you may have answered your own question a little further on: “I am a teacher today, and I am grateful for my experience in the Christian schools–a great reminder of who I do not want to be in dealing with my high-risk/high-need students and their families.”

      As someone who was bullied horribly by other kids (Christian and non-Christian alike) throughout my school years and then got entangled in an abusive relationship at the age of 19, I used to ask that same question. And then a few years ago I realized that because of what I went through, I’ve been able to be a source of encouragement and advice to others who are or were in the same circumstances. I love that I’ve been able to help people in this way! I finally feel pretty much healed from what I lived through as a child and adolescent, and yet the lessons I learned from it are now multiplied for others.

      From what you said, it sounds like maybe God is using you in a similar way. Because of what you experienced, you’re more sensitive to the needs of your students as well as to those who are disadvantaged and suffering in other ways. It’s so special that you can make a difference in their lives!

      I’m here for the same reason everyone else is; I have a lot of doubts. But one thing I’m pretty sure of is that, with time and prayer, God can heal our early wounds so that only the wisdom gained from them remains to help us and those around us in the future. I’m going to pray that God will start to heal the pain caused by the damage that was done to you as a young person so that the hurtful legacy of that will fade away and only the compassion and understanding that you learned from it will stay with you.

  • Lee Picton

    Maybe people are leaving the faith because the message to its members can no longer be controlled by the clergy. People do their own research on the internet and come to the entirely rational conclusion that there is no god at all. Shit happens, and no deity is involved, because there is no evidence for any gods.

    • almamu

      How can one gain true knowledge or reason/rationality from the internet? How can you say that there is no evidence for God, given that the name for God, YHWH, or I AM implies that God is self-existent and self-evident. YHWH (God) is the only God who exists. Idols, however, do not. Atheism is self-deceiving, and there is no evidence for atheism being true. There is, however, irrefutable evidence for the existence of God, and the Christian faith. Christianity is the ONLY faith actually based on evidence and Truth.

    • Anthony uren

      Evidence for creation-In digital science it is a basic concept that there can be no spontaneous encryption.So how do you explain DNA?You remember the explaination about endless Monkeys,typewriters and eventually one of them would come up with the complete works of Shakespear? Well in nature there are two types of amino acids,left handed and right handed.The right handed ones are destructive so how far would the monkeys get if every second key on the typewriter was lethal?Check it out

  • rebbecca

    GOD will fight 4 me all de pain i hve knw isnt tamperer all u dat hve hurt me so much dat i hve made me cry dat brought sorrow 2 my heart im nt goin 2 fight im goin 2 wait 4 de day u die nd see were u land 2 u call ur selves Christians u dnt knw wat de meanin of Christianity is u acted as if u care bout me nd my sis wen u see anothers . u r heartless im nt goin 2 say much but ders goin 2 be a day u need us nd me nd her r goin 2 help use but wre nver goin 2 forget wat u hve done 2 us 4 as long as we leave

  • Jeff

    I spent 17 years as a christian and in the end there are multiple reasons that I walked away: Everyone thinks they have the truth and the holy spirit is leading the way; the bible has errors, contradictions, and is not inerrant (please spare me the “apparent” contradictions speech); christian families are no example of love, but of rules, depression, and frustration; prayers are not answered.

    Everyone thinks they have the truth: “If you just come to our church or denomination you’ll hear the truth” Christianity is so divided it’s not even worth talking about. It has been hijacked by educated men who have a desire to rule over people and make a living. Just ask any christian if what they believe is right. There is no way to study the bible and come up with a clear understanding of what is the right way, none.

    So you know, I’m not some schleprock that never picked up his bible. To the contrary, I spent all my years as a christian devling deeply into scriptures, denominations, cults and the like. Yea, I ask the holy spirit to help me understand the scriptures and blah blah blah. The more I sought out the truth, the more I moved away from christianity. Take off the rose tinted glasses and look at christianity as you do every other religion in the world.

    Contractions, Errors, Inerrant: No current translation of the bible is without error, be it “copyist errors” or certain chapters that are in one translation, but not the other. Oh, that’s right, the original manuscripts were without error. Really, can you produce one of those for us to examine? There are so many areas in the old testament where numbers are different and contradictory, and their all brushed off as “copyist errors”, Excuse me, “ERRORS”. I also know thelogian’s arguments for contradictions, “if there is any reasonable explanation, then it’s not a contradiction”; that’s bull and you know it. Did Judas hang himself or fall headlong and his guts burst out? Oh that’s easy, he hung himself on a tree on the edge of a cliff and then later fell off, hit a rock, and then his guts burst out. (where is that in the bible?) How about this, one of them got it right, the other one got it wrong. The resurrection stories of all gospels are impossible to reconcile. I realize some apparent contradictions can be reconciled, but there are others that cannot, and the story has to be stretched really hard to make it work. Shh, we can’t tell anyone that or they might not trust the bible anymore, and we’ll lose our headcount at church. I’ve been very involed in churches and headcount is important, so don’t lie about it.

    Christian famlies: I have worked with more children from christian families that are an absolute disaster than I want to talk about. There is no joy in being a christian, but their life is very full or rules and regulations, do’s and don’ts. After reading some of Paul’s writings it is easy to understand why. Every time I move to a new neighborhood, I easliy find out where the christians live. “oh we don’t do that”, “our kids can’t do that”, “your kids can’t play with our kids” and on and on it goes. A majority of the time they are the worst neighbors and not well liked because they are so judgemental of everyone else and the word gets around. No, their not hated because of Jesus, there disliked because their morons and think their better than everyone else. They think they are the police force in the neighborhood. I was the most unhappy person on earth as a christian. Oh, I thought I was happy and serving Jesus, but the burden of all of the above and no answered prayers after 17 years was to much for me to bear anymore.

    Prayers: Here is my question for you, why doesn’t God heal alzheimers, down syndrom, amputees? No, he always seems to heal, cancer, or stomach problems, or any other things that can be healed medically or can’t be seen. I’m not saying he cant heal anyone, I’m saying it is always something like this, “Georgie had cancer everywhere and now she is healed” Of course that was after 5 rounds of Chemo and surgery. “My back pain is gone and the lord healed me” Christians will make anything an answer to prayer. I was in the hospital the other week with my wife. She was being operated on. I did not pray at all and everything went well. I heard a lady aside of me talking to someone on the phone about her son that was operated on that morning also. She said, “everything went fine, the lord answered all of our prayers”. Really? So if she wouldn’t have prayed the kid would have died, or what was she talking about? I didn’t pray and everything went fine also. I am so tired of hearing that every prayer is answered, either yes, no, or later. Jesus said anything you asked for in his name and he would give you. “Ask and the door will be open, seek and you shall find…” God said he would give good gifts to his children, and that if man who is evil gives good things to his kids, why wouldn’t he. The problem is when prayers aren’t answered than christians come up with all kinds of excuses; you didn’t have enough faith, he answered no, it has to be his will, and on and on it goes. Give me a a break people.

    I put my heart and sould into christianity and it as a whole failed me. No, I wasn’t looking for massive miracles, gold falling from the sky, christians walking around on clouds of loviness. What I found was that non christians as a whole were more loving and caring than christians. Christianity was hijack and made into something it is not supposed to be. I am much happier not going to church and having to deal with uptight, arrogant, judgemental, depressed christians all the time. Life is good, people are important and should be loved. We are not low life little sheep that are horrible and evil all the time. There is nothing you can say to me that I haven’t already said to many people, or have already heard, so forget it. You, christians, have failed miserably. Your no example of what Jesus was supposed to be. I am positive you will get on your soapbox and tell me how wrong and arrogant I am. No, actually I am very pissed off that I spent so many years following this and was completely let down. Why don’t you just delete this post so no one sees it and begins to question things; headcount, it’s all about headcount, remember that.

    • almamu

      The fact is, there are NO contradictions in the Bible. The contradictions assertion is only a myth made up by those in order to persuade Christians to abandon their faith. The ‘contradictions’ are only misinterpretations made by unreasonable skeptics. The reason why you left the faith is because you believed lies in this world. Those who pride themselves on their morality are fools. All people are evil. I’m a Christian, not religious, and I’ve been humbled by God during my own season of doubt. Even though the ‘contradictions’ have been resolved, its really depressing that skeptics still assume that there are errors in the Bible. There are none. They are making claims about the Bible which are not true and claim that the writers of the Bible are out to brainwash everyone without evidence. There are people, much more intelligent than you, I’m afraid, that have debunked any claims on contradictions. You fell away because you fell under pressure coming from unreasonable people. That’s the ultimate reason why people fall away. You feared man instead of God and now look at you, making a fool of yourself by asserting things which are not true.

      • KeepSmilin

        It’s snobs like you that give reason for people to reject Christianity.

      • Lynda Falls

        Jeff poured out his heart about the hurt and sense of let down, the frustration and lack of love John 13:35
        By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
        Romans 5:5
        and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

        1 John 3

        14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1 John 3
        Matthew 5:44

        But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

        1 Corinthians
        13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

        4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

        8 Charity never faileth:

        Luke 6:33-35

        Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

        33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. he sensed, he spoke about his feelings. Is pride more important than being meek? Can you feel empathy? Sense his pain? Try to understand and reach out on love, care, compassion and kindness?

      • bensant57

        The bible is the greatest work of fiction in the world. So many duped by colorful characters and depicted scenarios that they were so firmly duped into giving there meager assets to the church of choice. While doing so they gave their futures to those who had manipulated them into their own sense of free choice and belief. Knowing that you have been manipulated and doing so freely is not that much different, because there is that time you realize that you have been duped.

    • almamu

      As I was re-reading your comment, I noticed how HATEFUL you sound. You set a definition of a contradiction which is not the actual definition. The errors you talk about have nothing to do with Christian doctrine. Our faith is on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ but the Bible is inerrant in the original manuscripts, like you said. How can you honestly say that the resurrection accounts cannot be reconciled? All four accounts say he was risen from death and that was confirmed by eyewitness testimony of His resurrection. The ‘contradictions’ surface because people take things out of context, over-analyze, and place things in Scripture which are not in Scripture in the first place. Keep in mind that the Gospels were written by four different people within about 10-20 years after the facts they describe (given that there is a 1st Century fragment of the Gospel of Mark being discovered, I could make the assumption that the Gospels were written earlier than we thought). There are real scholars, like I’ve said before, who have dealt with all of the apparent contradictions in the Bible, scholars who are much more aware and educated on the subject matter than you.

      From what I’ve observed with people like you (such as John Loftus and many others) is that they make up flat out lies to make it seem like the church was out to get you but when the real truth comes out, it seems that the person who leashes out all sorts of hate on the church was out to conspire against God’s people in the first place.

      “I am much happier not going to church and having to deal with uptight, arrogant, judgemental, depressed christians all the time.”

      Hahaha….this is hilarious.
      This sounds a lot like you. And given your entire rant was about attacking the church and how you’re so much better without Jesus Christ, I can make the conclusion that you’re a self-righteous, ignorant, religious (yes, I said, religious) fool. You’re being irrational and just plain arrogant.

      “Shh, we can’t tell anyone that or they might not trust the bible anymore, and we’ll lose our headcount at church. I’ve been very involed in churches and headcount is important, so don’t lie about it.”

      It would be very interesting to ask someone in your church about how important headcount is. I thoroughly believe that you’re making that up. The thing about apostates which really is hilarious/ ticks me off is that they fabricate in order for people to feel sorry for them. Many of John Loftus’ former colleagues recount him being very self-righteous and hateful and people still wonder why he left the faith. He, too, is a habitual liar and plays mindgames with Christians.

      I really wish, as a Christian, that I could feel sorry for you but when you make as many errors in your judgement and your ‘reasons’ for leaving Christ behind are as dubious as they are, all I can do is shake my head and pray that you reconsider what Christ has done for you.

      • Anonymous

        @almamu Why are you attacking him (Jeff) with no compassion? You yourself went through a period of doubt as you stated. You show no compassion and mercy. I have been a Christian for 6 years and want to throw up how ‘christians” come across. They are some of the most dangerous people. Yes, I am a spirit-filled christian who walks with the Holy Spirit. We sound like psychopaths most of the time.

        • Anthony uren

          Sociopaths really

      • Lynda Falls

        True Christians have genuine love and compassion in their hearts.

    • Joy Bell

      Hi,
      Read with interest your reasons for ditching Christianity.
      The Judas Question puzzled me, but the answer is to do with Judas fighting, not the Judas who betrayed Jesus in the Bible.
      In the Apocrypha we find Judas fighting and his guts being spilled out, this is Jewish History.
      With regards to Christian famlies being awful examples, yes, I agree it’s a sad fact, but we could argue these are not Christian.
      If to be a christian means living a life of Goodness, Gentleness, self-control, there are people who do not do this and yet claim to be Christian.
      My husband lost his finger in a saw, the end of his finger was covered in saw-dust, the surgeon could not put it back on, we prayed, my husband’s thumb grew back!, but he is still an Atheist.
      I think true faith is something deeper and richer but not a one size fits all doctrine.
      My husband is a lovely, true and faithful person, I am a Christian he is an Atheist, but we have a good solid relationship built on love.
      Love is what Christanity is, being kind to your neighbour and love breaks down barriers and stands up for Justice.
      Love is Sacrifice of one’s own needs to help another achieve their goals, and they the same.
      Love isn’t fear or force, which sadly seems to be modern day Christianity, and has nothing to do with mercy and understanding.
      Prayers are not always answered, the world is imperfect, troubles come, they will come , the odd miracle is like a diamond in the rain, but we still get wet.
      After losing all my family and being spritually, emotionally and sexually abused by so called CHRISTIANS , and losing my faith too, but finding Jesus again and recieving healing for the hurts which took many, many years, I can understand very well how people lose their faith.
      The Bible’s main message is about Salvation, and it runs through every story, wether you take the imagary literal or not, Salvation is the Key. It is a tribal, bloody and difficult book, written by men who were trying to find the way to Salvation, just as the world is today. God is still in Control
      even when it seems all hope is gone.
      (PS During these last few days my husband is begining slowly to come back to God again, and he left God around forty eight years ago, the Patience of God is amazing, and Love is always patient)
      Bless you.
      Blessed are the pure in heart,
      for they will see God.

      • Mich

        Joy Bell thank you for your response, in your message you talk of being sexually abused by so called Christians, but hey as they abused you sexually, the qn is was it christian of you who was not “so called” but a christian to give it to their sexual demands?The truth of the matter is there are people out there who really love God, but get hurt by people and then the very ones who hurt them are the ones who insult them and force them to forgive? If forgiveness means i deliberately pathetically hurt you and then remind you of how you are supposed to forgive me even when iam still hurting you, the forgiveness needs to be redefined.We have to understand what hurtaches people are going through before we rush to dub them unforgiving.

    • KeepSmilin

      Personally, I believe the biggest mistake almost ALL Christians make is assuming that every word that came out of the mouth of Yeshua was directed to ALL those who would believe on him. I have come to realize that most of the greatest promises were not meant for all believers but were strictly limited to those who he spoke it to. When he said “Ask anything in my name and you will receive it”, he was saying that exclusively to his disciples who did do great things. To be fair, what justification do people have to claim something for themselves that he spoke? On what grounds can you base that? There is no basis for that. And once you begin to accept that, then it becomes obvious why many are never healed from sicknesses nor why most prayers are probably never answered.

      Perhaps the biggest hurrdle to overcome is convincing yourself that Yeshua is NOT God. If you believe he is, it is almost certain that you believe that because you were taught it. But if you ditch everything you have acquired over the years and seek the truth on your own without anyone influencing your view, then you’ll be amazed at what you will discover.

      Personally, I believe God hears very few prayers. Oh sure He certainly knows everything but from our perspective, He might just as well not exist.

    • Fiona Deveney

      hello Jeff, and anyone else who may read this. Ive just read your
      comments and can say i understand a lot of about how you are feeling.
      Ive been a christian for around 20 years now and have seen a LOT in that
      time! What drew me to this page is that Ive been feeling quite low
      lately and was looking for something… I don”t know what! Ive had
      many doubts and seen all the things you describe. In truth, especially
      from day 1 I have been very sad by the way many chrisitans can behave.
      They can be very religious, rigid and judgemental and I have seen many
      people not helped by them.

      But here’s the other side of it….
      Ive had many prayers not ”yet” answered (however you look at it!)- but
      I really have had a few answered. Ill tell you my testimony. Around 30
      years ago I met people who were practicing satanism and although I got
      away with my life, after that I had around ten years of horrifying
      nightmares every night, lights coming on, things moving around the house
      and wierd inexplainable events happening to me constantly. I was not a
      christian in all this time and i searched for a way to have this stop or
      to understand it. In those ten years i studied philosophy of religion
      at univeristy to try and find an answer. My family also arranged for me
      to have a hypnotist come to my house one evening a week for a year ( it
      didnt help although i placed very high hope that it would) but it didnt
      help. Then my family took me to the spiritualist church where they could
      tell me really accurate thingsabout myself and family- but also these
      wierd events just carried on happening and i continued to live in fear,
      with the nightmares ever night. It was so bad that i drank very heavily
      and was severely depressed, sometimes not speaking for 2 or 3 days in a
      row. This lasted for ten years until my then boyfriend left me and i
      cried for nearly a week- wherever i looked it was hopeless, utter
      depression and fear. At that point my mom found out about a group called
      maranatha in manchester who she found out prayed for people who had
      been involved in the occult and needed releasing from it. I went up
      there and stayed with them a few days and they prayed for me. The man
      who prayed for me was a methodist minister and he seemed to really be
      listening to God when he prayed and then said things that were very
      meaningful. Finally he just said ” A curse has been put on your life”-
      well I DIDN”T Blieve in curses!!! I believed they were just myths and
      people caused things to happen to themselves by believing it… and I
      had even read lots of positive thinking self- help books over the years
      and I believed in psychology but definetly NOT curses!!!!- but also dont
      forget, I was desperate so I just said, ok, please pray.. I said a
      quick prayed and accepted Jesus into my life and then i remember this
      man prayed to break the curse off my life in Jesus’ name. I remember
      thing, ” I”ll believe it when i see it !” – In other words I HAD NO
      FAITH IN THIS PRAYER AT ALL!!! But I’m telling the truth about what
      happened….those supernatural, poltergeistic, terrifying events just
      stopped overnight!!!!!! Even the nightmares which i’d had for ten
      years just stopped _ never again!!!! I had had LOADS of faith in the
      hypnotism which lasted an hour at an time and the lady came for a YEAR-
      once a week!- and yet this short, twenty- minute prayer which i HAD NO
      FAITH IN- suddenly set me free!!!! I was totally amazed and started
      telling people about Jesus. Within months as the fear had left me and I
      could see this change was permanent, there was no reason to drink
      anymore- so I just stopped!! But I still didnt gto to church!!! I
      slowly ended up in a few churches but after 3 years i was in a
      particular group with christians and I was seeeing real annswers to
      prayer with this group- becasue they really believed and were different
      than most church go-ers. I went out one evening and prayed and told God I
      wanted to give my life to Him and really be a christian- but that I
      couldn’t because I needed to hear from Him if what had happened to me
      all those years ago when in met those people was REALLY a curse – or if
      it was “JUST” psychological!! – you see even though it was very real
      what I went trough for those ten years, when that christian prayed for
      me and it stopped overnight- my sister had suddenly announced that i was
      a schizophrenic and I had imagined it all! ( even though I had never
      been schizophrenic BEFORE I met them!!- and also it stopped IMMEDIATELY -
      so presumably I just ‘stopped’ being a schizophrenic- well my sister
      wanted to give my experience a non- spiritual explanation as spiritual
      stuff scares her- so thats why she said it)… Anyway, all I knew was
      that I’d had ten years of sheer hell which stopped immediatley when i
      was prayed for.. and now, 3 years later i was with christians who were
      committed and sincere and I had seen 3 very real answers to prayer- once
      was healing of grossly swollen ankle restored in literally minutes- and
      two profundly accurate words of knowledge- both which left the people
      in profound sense of gratitude that God would reach down to them- and it
      brought them both great security knowing God knew them so intimately
      and knew what was wrong and brought words which were healing ( they both
      remained profoundly touched by this event) I wasn’t a christian at this
      point, but i was very open becasue of the prayer in Jesus name which
      had so changed me 3 years ago. SInce that time the fear had left me and i
      was living normal life again… so I was open. But after seeing these
      things… I suddenly just believed and I went out one night and told God
      i wanted to give my life to Him- but that I couldnt becasue I wasnt
      100% SURE of what had happened 3 years ago- I asked God was it REALLY a
      curse( ie, something spiritual) that He had broken when that man prayed
      for me… or was it ”JUST” psychological. Even as i prayed this i knew
      it was a curse ( after all I was the one who lived through the eerie,
      unforgettable evants- which included lights coming on which both I AND
      other people often witnessed- it was NOT just in my head)=!!). Anyway,
      this night, 3 years after being prayed for, this was my prayer- I’m
      ready to give my life to you- but WHAT really happened all those years
      ago… was it a curse- or was it just psychological ?? I cried a lot, -
      then went to bed!
      NEXT DAY there was a visiting speaker from
      swizerland who had been fasting and praying… He was speaking about our
      real identity in Christ. We went out for coffee at half past ten and
      when we returned into the room, this man who i’d never met before-
      looked across at me on the back row and said, ”The Lord has just told
      me there was a curse on your life which has been broken- it was sent to
      destroy you and nearly did- it was not your fault and He is restoring
      you..” .. I hadnt told ANYONE there at all about any of this ( becasue
      of shame and embarrasment)- so absolutley NOONE there knew!! I
      literally couldnt stop crying……The RELIEF, after all those years…
      to know it was definetly finally over- no fear of return ( it had
      totally stopped 3 years ago when i was prayed for – but i had d=feared
      it might start again!)- Now I knew that God knew all about it!!! He
      answered me when i was totally desperate ( the prayer the night before
      was totally desperate and genuine from my heart)… I phoned my mom that
      night and crIed so hard – tears of joy, you cannot imagine- i WAS
      really changed!!! The same man prayed more with me that God said he
      would give me the gift of praise and joy. Before that I had never
      praised God nor felt any joy… but slowly praise became a part of my
      life and joy started filling me in quite a ridiculous, quite
      unexplainable way! I was definetly changed!!!!! Years of severe,
      terror and depression followed by years of joy. I had one other time of
      answered prayer- i started learning violin- then my left shoulder
      became utterly stiff and painful so i couldnt even lift my arm. Ten
      months of sever pain which affected my work- i was driving a van and
      doing care-work. ut i couldnt even attempt the violin any longer. I
      asked God many times to heal me an twice it lessened only to return.
      After ten months i went to a new prayer group and a man i didnt know
      said ”the Lord has told me someone in here has severe arthritic pain in
      their left shoulder and od is going to heal them tonight”. A girl i
      didnt know prayed for me- and the pain literally left AS she prayed- I
      was Gob-smacked and couldnt stop laughing- aND i’m pretty good on the
      violin now!!!! SO those things God helped me with….. But Ibe got
      plenty of UNANSWERED prayers too. For instance Im separated, living at
      my mothers- and so ins my sister- and she is very negative. Ive also
      been unemployed for two years and my car broke and I have no money to
      fix it. Ive prayed about all these things. But I also thank God for the
      wonderful things Ibe seen in my life. 5 years ago, because i had such a
      dramatic and real conversion I was SOOO grateful to Jesus- so I love
      seeing others touched ( I’m still not always happy about how uncommitted
      and cool some ‘believers’ can be) so me and a friend decided to do an
      ALPHA course for – yep, DRUG ADDICTS and alcoholics and street people –
      well, ther REAL Jesus was radical- so why shouldn’t we be… ???
      Anyway my non-conventional christian friend agreed and the church agreed
      and gave us the building- we had around 70 people the first night. We
      walked around invited the lot!! And to be fair it was like the church
      ahad been waiting for this- it brought everybody’s good side out. People
      donated everything they could, money, food, cooking, lifts, love,
      compassion, tears and understanding.. the lot!! It was heaving!! The
      very first night ( I had been on my knees for one young street lad i had
      met for about 5 weeks becasue a young lad had come into our day- drop
      in. He had been sexually abused, kicked out from his home, he had
      epilepsy and his teeth had rotted to black stumps from the heroin (
      which he has already gotten off of before he met me- but his teeth were
      still messed up!) and because of the epilepsy he couldnt be operated on
      to remove them -. He also had incapacitating migraines and was addicted
      to amphetamines and heard voices and was severely depressed and had
      attempted suicide multiple times by the time i met him . O yes, and he
      had also fallen from a balcony when drunk in some kind of chase and had
      shards of broken bone woring their way inwards into his spinal cord. The
      doctors said he would eventually be paralysed as they could not get
      these shards out. When i met him he was wearing a complete body brace
      with a chin piece which held his head immobile and when he walked his
      right leg dragged as there was already some creeping paralysis. And do
      you know what- he was a nice guy!! We had our drop in in those days in
      the old cold church so i got him a coffee and tried to be cheerful. He
      took one look at me and waved his hand between us and said he would
      NEVER believe in God so I’d better not try it!! He then proceeded to
      tell me all of the above- and i just felt like crying… Ive met many
      people with some of the above- but this guy just had every bad thing
      going– he couldnt read or write and had spent years in prison
      iinvolved in bad things therre as well. ANyway… long story short… I
      went home— and cried!!! I also started praying what efven i thought
      was a ridiculous prayer- Lord please heal that guy cos who will help him
      when he does get paralysed. I also invited him to our alpha every time i
      saw him after that. I saw him in town with his brace on and he said he
      wasnt interested so i told him about the free meal… that was it. The
      night of the alpha- guess what ? Bless him, he was the first through
      the door- he clapped his hands together and said, ”wheres the grub”.
      As i said about 70 people came and we ate, listened to the videos about
      Jesus – then at the end this guy was SMILING- i asked him how he found
      it and he said, ”ITS given me hope”- was SOOO HAPPY- i knew he’d been
      sooo depressed- so that was enough for me!!! I would have left it
      there. But thank God for Dave, a christian with totoos and lots of
      faith… he waled up to us both and said to our friend…can i ask why
      you’ve got that plaster cast on your body- and he told him why- ad then
      Dave said. ”Do you believe Jesus can heal you ?”- to which our friend
      just looked at him, still smiling, and said ”yeah!” ( remember his
      first statement to me was that he would never believe so dont try!!!)
      Anway, a group of guys gathered round and started praying- and i walked
      off to leave the guys to it and started talking to a few of the ladies
      but I could still see them praying about twenty feet away. That was
      that-thursday night. I saw this guy in the coffee shop saturday morning-
      cast was off and he told me he had been healed. He became a christian (
      took a bit longer to get him off the drugs as God did NOT miraculously
      heal him of that as he has some folks). To this day He still believes
      and talks about his healing. But understand this- he was
      DESPERATE!!!!!!!! And we have a God who hears the cries of the really
      desperate- and he was humble too- He never thought he deserved anything,
      he amazingly never complained- even told me once he always figured
      there was someone worse off than himself- I thought, doubt it!!
      Anyway,
      back to our Alpha- the first night we had this amazing healing and this
      guy started coming to church and people could see he was changed… and
      others were changed too- although one guy overdosed half way through
      and died after saying he believed in God….and boy i cried about that
      too ad so did many of us..Many drug addicts were prayed for and had
      their lives changed. i remember one street person standing in the doors
      of the church with a church felloow beside him who had bought him a
      chinese takeaway just crying saying, ”He bought me this, i cant believe
      he bought this food for me”. I had a phone call from ireland from
      one gy saying after our course He’d come off of drugs after years of
      addiction…… so here’s the thing…… Our course was full of life-
      and death! Problems and fears,,, but WHY did God do that one VERY
      DRAMATIC instant healing right at the start of our course, right on the
      first day ( Ive often wondered about this- cos i dont see this every day
      either!!!) … well i think its for this reason….God Honours the
      efforts of those who try to do His will- and His Will is to look after
      the broken and the lost…and this guy certainly was very broken and lost and huring. ALso we were helping the people who I believe God loves- the outcasts

      • Fiona Deveney

        …..There were many good things which happened in that ten week course… one was healed, but many found hope, love, some came off drugs and a good number became believers. But one died and some were not helped- but maybe they were. Healing is a process- and life is a process. A relationships, especially with God is a process. Ive had more tough times in my life than good.. but when I;m really down as I have been the last few months, Ive really spent MORE time with God rather than less and Ive usually started to see things I need to do. The truth is there is a spirit realm and our time on earth is but a small bit of the picture. There are spiritual truths – like it is far more blessed to give than to receive. And Jesus talked about us GIVING our lives, dying to self, going out to love and save the lost- but as you pointed out, modern western churches have moved away from that a bit ( I think the chinese churches are very inspiring- they suffer persecution, but they do not suffer depression the way we do. Brother Yun in his book the Heavenly man (WELL WORTH a read and a reflection!) said nothing that happened to him in china ever affected his fatih like the luke-warm slandering of the western churches- and he had been tortured for years in china and seen answer after answer to prayer over there. I can’t help bu think that when we start to do good things for the Lord that we will see answers to prayer. I accept that until this day my husband is still estranged and doing his own thing- Ive prayed about it but despite times of lonliness I havent let myself get down ( except just a bit lately) about it. Also a few people I know have been touched by the Lord- and many havent. Ive prayed about my work, my car- and Ive ended up and a previously active very believing christian, just staying in feeling down… but never totally down. I’m tempted to give in- but cant cos I know God. I was given ecclesiastes 3 years ago by 3 christians at the the same time- in it God showed me there is a time for efverything- good and bad!! Read it- its true. Good and bad will come. But what are we DOING with the things that come our way ? Are we going out and GIVING to others- or feeling bad cos God isnt giving us the answers we think we need ? I have my really tough times- and I shall be 48 soon- nealy 50!! ANd where have I gotten in life ?? I could dwell on the unanswered prayer- or i can remim=nd myself that no success in this life can come to the grave with me. God told me years ago that He opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble… and I know I was proud. God has helped me through so many things- but He’s shown me most by the unanswered prayer… Ive been so humbled and so changed and I know the purpose in life isnt what we ‘achieve’- but in what He achieves in us… changing us and our attitudes. When we give to others He simply is there and touches and heals people. We are meant to act as the body of Christ- ministering love to others…many on here have lamented how christians can be judgemental and depressed and not very loving….and althoguht Ive felt sad ablout this also I can see its becasue they probably they are depressed… but I remember one thing- noone was depressed when we were busy with the alpha- everyone came alive when they were serving- and isnt it funny how God turned up when we were actually doing what we were meant to be doing!! Jesus said healing and His presence would accompany the sharing of the good news- we are meant to go and share it with OTHERS- not just keep it for ourselves. ANd we wonder why we are depressed!! I once knew a wonderful dynamic christian lady from austrailia and she and her husband had led many missions and seen many miracles of healing and deliverance and she taught a very ”strong” word for us a christians. She said if you want to SEE God move in your own life, if you want answered prayers… then make sure you are praying for what is most on God’s heart! – People.. lost, broken, hurting people- the ones Jesus died for. She put it like this- billys been saved so he wants a miracle so he goes to church a wants a warm fuzzy feeling and to have his arm prayed for- this become a habit he becomes addicted to- and week after month after year- he goes to church, expecting, wanting something nice- He wants God to tell him something nice and answer his needs and feelings. Some christians go to meeting after meeting after- you got it!- meeting- hearing new teachings, wanting a new nice fuzzy feeling to confirm them- but WHY would the Holy Spirit turn up to keep them confirmed in this way of life ? The Holy Spirit wants us to GO OUT INTO the world to share with the Lost. Thats when the Holy Spirit turns up with power- as He did to heal our friend that day in the church- to confirm as a big YES to what we were doing. We were serving the broken, so the Holy Spirit was there to encourage us and the fellow who got healed. Its a fact that people will die and people will abandon one another- but the Lord himself said- who is my family ? Its those who do the will of God. When Jesus the earthly son left his earthly mother- he gave her another son to take her in- He gave us to each other as the body of christ- but many christians dont follow Jesus and think christianity is all about getting stuff- and not about serving. But Jesus didn’t promise us happiness- He promised us His Joy- which is quite different- that is a deep inner feeling of being connected to Him even in the hardest times..in fact Jesus said we would have persecution if we follow Him, not ‘happiness’ He said we must die to self and take up our cross and follow Him. My happiest times have been when Ive died to self and looked to Him- my most unhappy times have been when Ive remembered myself and thought about my own predicament. Jesus made sacrifice for us so that we would gain spiritually- love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfullness and self-control. The things we pray for and which He will give us are spiritual. My husband may not be ready to return yet( just as an example becasue a lot of folks on here are focussed on unanswered prayer) – but the Lord can still give me joy when Im struggling… He can still bring me comfort when Im down and good friends who love me… He can also teach me about my own fears, why Im afraid to live without certain things, think I need them. If we stay close to the Lord, each step of the way is a learning curve. The real truth is that when we are giving and serving, that when we see answers, feel connected with others and feel the joy of serving God and seeing real lives totally transformed. Jesus told us to FOLLOW HIM- so lets do it- dont follow the guys in the church who have been keeping the seats warm for the last 30 years… lets all find other believers who want to serve and go and make a difference. Take time out and read the bible for yourself- ask God to speak to you- then go and find other fed up christrians who want to see change and pray about it and then DO SOMETHING!! Run an alpha course for drug addicts like we did, or join a christian drug rehab centre or go and help someone. Jesus WANTS us to help people and share His love….. its no wonder we are depressed if we are not doing it !!!! God bless you all x x x

        • Fiona Deveney

          one last thing, further to reading your last comment- I know its not a ”frequent event’ but a friend of mine met a lady whose husband with alzheimers had a word of knowledge that he would be healed ”one word at a time”- and it happened literally like that. Apparently for about 6 weeks or so after this prayer this man who had not even been able to speak started forming longer and longer sentences day by day until he was healed. It does happen! Also my father in law was an atheist till he was 79 and the Lord healed him of a severe 2 year ulcers at a church called Renewal in the west midlands at their tuesday healing service. Although he was an avowed atheist he became a believer after that becasue he said now that he had seen he had to believe! He died about 18 months later a very changed man!! The point is that although not everyone is healed, some are- and the Lord touches people as they need it and as they ask. Ive just been out walking my dog since my last post and I thought Id better mention- that ALL my times of being touched by God were through the body of Christ and not when i was on my own cos im super- spiritual!..The first man who prayed for me when all that bad stuff just stopped happening overnight- the second man 3 years later who had that very strong and accurate world of knowledge for me- and when that other man had the world of knowledge that my arthritic shoulder wouldbe healed and it was. The 3 dramatic times of answered prayer I was being ministered to by the body of christ- which is why God gave us to each other to encourage and help one another. He never wanted us to be independent and (proud!) do it on our own… although some people do get that, but not everyone.Theres a reason He put us in the body to minister to each other. Can you get to Renewal Christian centre in solihul ? Ive lost count of the people Ive seen healed there. ANd its no hype- all quiet, very prayerful. If I look back over my 20 years as a christain there have been definite highs and a a few lows…i think the problem nowadays is becasue people have been trained to always want something nowadays. A youngish man in my church told me recently that he wanted to leave the church after he saw he wasnt getting wht he wanted. He told me that when he was preached to the guy who did it told him his life ”would be easy” after he became a christian. Luckily he had already come to see the depth of Christ and spiritual reality and chose to stay but he told me that he wished the evangelist had just been truthful… following Christ is hard and requires comittment.. its a joy because we love Him and it has nothing to do with what we ‘get’ for doing it !! I know an old boy christian. His home is open to up to 4 alcoholics or drug addicts at any point of the year. He goes on marches for Jesus and has adopted african children as well as having his own. His life is service to Christ and he iis surrounded by people who love him -he has been stolen from but more often than not he is loved and appreciated. Its never occured to him that following Jesus is anything different from this… and in truth it isnt . Following Christ is about giving, loving, sacrifice.. and because it is so radically different from the lives that everyone else is living there is really no comparrison to other people’s lives!!> We are meant to look different- we are not meant o look the same as other people and have all the same things that other people have. My grace is sufficient for you is what God told Paul and what He meant is that He wouldnt answer every request but that He was still there. The joy of knowing Christ is serving Him and seeing Him changing lives. But if we are mediocre and look like everyone else, why would any one be changed by us ? The problem isnt therm- its us !! And God would bless our efforts- if we made an effort to help someone sometimes. But the truth we are not meant to be christians for ourselves but for what we can give to others… prefer others to ourselves… let us not tire of doing good….real religion is to give to widows and orphans… rend your heart and not your garments….the sacrifice God wants is of a broken and contrite spirit….it is more blessed to give than receive….love one another… forgive… forgive your enemies… pray for those who spitefully use you…..go the extra mile… repent….. and Love because without that we are a clanging cymbal!! Die to self, take up your cross and follow me, sell your possessions and give to the poor, be satisfied with and without, praise Him in all things and count it all joy when we are not treated well…..and if we do these things we will know His Joy, peace love. The man i described earlier is a christian of the ”old school”- and he knows the joy and peace of the Lord. Christians are taught differently now.. I’m not sure it s the same gospel we are taught anymore.. Everybody wants somethig and noone wants to give anymore…. But Jesus gave His life for us to set us free from the bondage of this world so that we would know spiritual freedom….. Jesus said blessed are the pure in heart and blessed are those who mourn- He said if we will go to Him that He will heal us and comfort us… He is still there waiting.. He is still real and loves you. Problem is most of us are not very real with Him anymore; most of us are fake, demanding christians who want good things, demanding to see a sign but unwilling to take up our cross. Jesus really died for us and asked us to also die to self- but all we want to do is live !!!

          • Lynda Falls

            Great testimony!

        • Lynda Falls

          Lots of love in your reply.

      • Guest

        Would love to talk to you. The devil has tried to destroy me. Not much worse can happen to a person.

  • garyk

    This question came up again tonight between my wife and I. We’ve tithed, we have been generous, we see the promises in Malachi 3:10, yet within the last two years our “fields” — our livelihoods — have not been protected. Our home is gone. Our income is gone — many possessions sold or given away. We ask “why?”

    I cannot answer this. Yet, when I look back I remember when God did answer a particular prayer, or kept a promise. I have written some of these many, many times He helped in our family Bible, because when I am feeling my lowest, it is like I don’t even remember all the blessing He did give. These prayers and miracles, what were they?

    He saved my life once when I was lost in the ocean and I cried out. He saved my business in three minutes. A partner called to tell me he was not going to honor his promise. It would have been my financial ruin. I cried out to the Lord in a knee-jerk reaction without even thinking to do it. Three minutes later, this partner call me back to change what he said 180 degrees.

    Years ago I almost lost the house, yet he saved me and my family — literally poured out manna from heaven. He miraculously saved my wife and I from a car wreck where we both should have been killed. Not a scratch on us, nothing. He has answered prayers for health and healing. He has answered our prayers we’ve prayed for our children and grandchildren, for our friends and other people.

    All I can say is go over all the promises He has kept and all the prayers He has answered. It is humbling. Even in our losing our home, a friend called me and told me God said a house he had intended to rent was, instead, “mine.” He didn’t want anything for it. No rent, nothing. “Use it for as long as you need to get back on your feet. God told me, like Job, you would be restored. I am like one of Job’s friends, to give to you to help restore you. Don’t thank me, thank God.”

    Still now, my income is zero and all I try to do has come to nothing. Yet, people call me and say, “God told me to help you.” And, they seem to be working on it.

    Like Moses in the desert. He held up the staff and told them not to look at the snakes biting them, but to look at the emblem, and they would be saved.

    • Lynda Falls

      I don’t think Jesus promised riches but rather promised to provide food and clothing and then if we seek first the kingdom of God.

      James 2:5-7

      Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

      James 5:1-3

      Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      5 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. 3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

      Revelation 3:16-18

      Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

      Matthew 6:33

      But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

      2 Chronicles 7:14

      if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

    • Lynda Falls

      If people read in the previous verses Jesus is talking about food and clothing. So when He says these things will be added to you if you seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, He is talking about food and clothing and only if people seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness first.

  • http://www.gwern.net gwern

    I am struck by how much these accounts resonate with sociological theories of human relationships, especially those coming from social exchange theory. This theory describes humans as judging the value of relationships in terms of costs and benefits. One variation of social exchange theory, termed equity theory, holds that people are satisfied with their relationships when they get the rewards that they feel are proportional to the costs that they bear. An inequitable is unstable, and it usually occurs because a person thinks they receive too little for how much they give.

    I’m a little flabbergasted by this description. Are we reading the same testimonials? Your own quotes speak of how the writer ‘never’ had prayers answer, ‘always’ saw them fail, and ‘nothing fails like prayer’ with God ‘not showing himself’ ever. None of them say things ‘well, God granted my prayer to make my cat well, but what has he done for me lately? I guess I’ll just stop believing in him, that’ll show him!’

    This is not a case where one receives ‘too little’, these are cases where the person is receiving nothing, and are closer to evidentiary than commercial issues: if an appearance or granted prayer is evidence that can convince you to believe in God, then no appearances and no granted prayers must be evidence to convince you not to believe in God.

  • Hee Lye Lim

    This is a God sent Blog. Thank you Lord.
    The main stumbling block to Christianity, at present, is that the leaderships have decimated the the Body of Christ, with many members, into diversed shapes and sizes. The Church of Christ Jesus is His Body and NOT huge, beautiful, expensive buildings called “Churches”. The teachings and practices are exactlly a copy of the Old Testament. Those days the Leaders of the Jew ruled and oppressed the ordinary people who depended so much during the various worship Feasts. Power, positions, respect, money, etc. are in high demand for religious services rendered, Do we now see any similarity?
    Is it “To God be the glory!” or “To men and women be the glory”? Take a good look around us……..and what do we see? Does the world see and hear Christ Jesus through His Church in our midst, in good and bad times? We had the “Acts of the Apostles” . Now is the”Acts of the Body of Christ”! Beloved brothers and sisters in Christ, all over the world, LET US ARISE AND MOVE WITH PASSIONATE ACTS OF LOVE, PEACE AND JOY OF THE LORD
    AMONG THE NATIONS!
    We pray that Abba Father, in the Name of Jesus, by His Spirit gives all of us revelations of “The Great Commandants”, “The New Convenant” and “The New Commandment” to guide and lead us, enpowered with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. To God be the glory! Amen.

  • DEL

    As an adult with Aspergers syndrome, a form of autism, I don’t approach faith in an emotional manner. Having recently re-evaluated my involvement in church and christianity, I decided to leave both. The preponderance of false doctrines and hypocritical christians has overwhelmed me, and I’m not able to justify my beliefs any longer.
    For all of you apologists for god I say let god speak for himself. Let him explain the genocidal horrors he expected his “chosen people” to commit. Let him explain how an omnipotent being can allow millions to starve and suffer regardless how much they pray to him. Let him explain how his most faithful servants such as Joel Olsteen and Joyce Meyer can live like royalty. Let him explain just why I should believe in stories of talking snakes, talking donkeys, man-eating fishes, magical fruit trees, global floods, a 6000 year old earth, and a flat earth. People don’t deconvert from christianity only because of unanswered prayers. We are wearied of intrusive church members, parasitical clergy, and being required to check our intellect at the door every single time we enter a church.
    I discovered that once I started asking the hard questions how quickly I was rejected and ostracized by the church. We Aspies aren’t known for being tactful but we do ask honest questions and expect honest answers. What have I discovered about the majority of christians I have known? Judgemental, petty, dishonest, hypocritical, unloving, and superstitious. I don’t need that in my life.

    • Anthony uren

      I went to church yesterday,someone latched onto me to “find out how I was.” I left feeling much worse as he was so superficial and I knew I would be written off as a Madman because I to challenged the falsehood.
      This the age of appostacy,all institutions will come under the control of the world system and nearly all churches are no longer real christian organisations.
      As far as the hard questions I know that Chuck Missler,Jacob Prasch and Dave White on youtube offer real christian teaching based on the original scriptures dealing with all the difficult issues of our faith.
      I am isolated,I have mental health issues,I know others in the same boat.About the only thing God may offer is the strength to pick ourselves up and try to endure as best we can.Please trey these teachers,there are many others,but I know they deal with the issues you detail in your post.
      Churchill said that Democracy is dire but it is the best weve got.Knowing Jesus does seem like a mindbending load of bollox,(please excuse my anglosaxon.) a lot of the time but there is nothing to compare with Gods plan.Remember from Judgement day there will be eternal Justice no more lies,no more suffering for the innocents.Hang in there Del

      • Fiona Deveney

        Thankyou Anthony.. I liked what you said.. although you may have mental health issues I think you are very honest and good at using your brain to be positive with and help others.. Bless you for that. Ive become quite isolated lately- and its a very hard place to be but Ive been pressing into God- and He has really given me some astonishing concrete answers! I told God only today there are things I just dont like about the way things are ( I dont want to be too specific incase it triggers something in others) but as I was really crying out to God about this I asked Him a couple of things. He gave me a scripture that satisfied my first question and then I said ok then, that being the case, then what about Jesus- and God showed me- Specifically that God GAVE us Jesus to relate TO HIM, RECEIVE from Him- God is more involved in Peopl’s lives than we think… He is the healer, restorer- we see such a tiny, tiny tip of the iceberg… And sadly christians don’t always help eachother because they’re only at the start of the journey themselves. If we all really press into the Lord I know He will help us. Problem is- we are all such sinners we are eachother’s stumbling blocks!!- Ive left a few other comments ( 3) if you want to find them- they may encourage you a bit… again thankyou for what you said… God bless x :)

    • Fiona Deveney

      Hi Del, Im a bit sad to hear of your pulling away… but I do know that your questions are fair- and need to answered- as you rightly said, by God Himself! I have two Aspies in my family- my sister and nephew and have read loads of books on it- so let me tell you, I have a secret soft-spot for Aspergers folks. I love their honesty and objectivity- and often their great sense of humor! Im hoping that objectivity in you and love of straight facts (honesty) will keep you from falling away completely… You see a lot of what you said is true.. BUT… if you DO let God speak for Himself I think you would hear different things than what many in the church are saying.. For starters you mention Joel and and Joyce Meyer and the fortunes they have amassed – and you called them faithful servants!! But that is a propigation of the modern, western, rather trivial churches! The REAL faithful servants chose to actually follow the Lord; they deny themselves and serve- they are not self- seeking but are probably rarely noticed. The closer someone is to the Lord the FAR less likely we are to even notice them!! Jesus warned BIG TIME about FALSE PROPHETS- and boy are there ever a few out there. But we’re not meant to look to them.. we’re meant to stay close to the Lord and keep our eyes on HIm. A lot of what we are seeing in the church at the moment is a big media-boost. The REAL servants of the Lord are out of sight and mind- but thee are many of them. Jackie Pullinger genuinely made sacrifices and served, so does Simon Guillebaud. The christians in China give their entire lives for the sake of the Lord and for others…Real followers of the Lord live humbly and give all that they have. God knows the truth about people- and people who call themselves followers and then make fortunes for themselves out of selling God’s word is really wrong. We are being put off christianity by people who are not even true believers before we’ve had the chance to go deep enough to see what the real faith is about.
      The christians who major in on picking up snakes again just distract people from the real work. Jesus told us to go and share everything He had taught them with others- and WHEN we do do this He mentioned that people would be healed, delivered and gerally set free- as an accompaniment to what they were sharing ( the good news of forgiveness, love, putting others first, justice for all etc…) He mentioned protection: that when they were obedient in this service they would be protected and NOT be harmed. Jesus did not mean for 2o century “”Eejits”” to go round making shows op picking up snakes- thats just stupid- but boy do these people ever distract us from the work of the real christians- who have at times GENUINELY BEEN PROTECTED FROM SUCH THINGS- because of their obedience and faithfulness- and not becasue they were making a show of ”picking up snakes” to be oh-so-extra-christian!!! Again, the guys who don’t really get it give the real christians a bad name again!!!! I agree with you about leaving your brain at the door – isn’t it fun!!! ( just joking!) ANd not just at the church door- we can do it everywhere!! Ha ha!… The truth is i think most of christianity is very badly presented in the churches- and a lot of it has been well put here on this web page… Ive read a lot of it and agree- and feel very sad about it. The difference is I DO Still believe, despite the appalling show. I had a very real experience of being set free spiritually when i was prayed for years ago and so i know the very real power of Christ. But I have to be honest only a very few Christians that I have met really show the comittment and understanding and love that Christ asked of us. If I was studying Christians I would definetly NOT be a believer.. but thank God, its Jesus I (try to) follow.. not the christians. I think western christians have succumbed to a spirit of materialism and apathy and we act as though we will bumble along on this planet forever- we have no sense of this just being a step in the journey to somewhere else. Paul said we’re here temporarily, just passing through, but we fight for our comfort, ignore our fellow companions and ignore the plight of others while we work away for our precious mortgages…Its so totally UN-christian- so UN-what Jesus called us to do and be! You mentioned judgemental and petty- I know what you’re referring to…I once read a book by a wonderful christian monk and when he met people whose sins he was made aware of in London in his parish he threw back his head and laughed!! He commented that he knew God just loved them for their mischieviousness- God is so big and loving…the monk said he KNEW God just loved them so much, how could such a small thing matter! Needless to say all his parishoners just loved this fellow and felt a bit of what God’s love really meant just by feeling it a bit when he was around- the man was unintentionally a good evangelist!! I think you’re saying most christians are NOT like this!! Nope, not a lot of them… but Jesus IS like that- Jesus is really great- He first appeard to Mary Magdalene-not only a woman, but someone who had really been involved with sin. And He knew her and had SUCH compassion for her!! Forget the Christians who keep telling us they are christians. There really ARE sincere and loving believers out there- you’ve just been in the wrong crowd- like I have!! I hope you read this… there is so much more to say… God Bless you Del and don’t stay turned away from the Lord… He is real and Loves you still.
      I would love to recommend a few books – available second hand on amazon- one is case for the creator by Lee strobel- totally fascinating- many atheists turned believers based on their findings in their various sciences- it goes into some detail and is really interesting. Also a very thoughtful and well written book is by Simon Guillebaud- i think its the one that is NOT more than conquerors- so its the other one- it was challenging, exciting, thought-provoking- and very un-english-churchey. The facts and statistics of real life changes, challenges, difficulties will stir you a bit I’m sure… Can I ask one question… what sort of church did you attend ? Anyway, signing out now- half 3 in the morning ! God bless x :)

    • Lynda Falls

      If they ha John 13:35

      By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

      Romans 5:5

      and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

      1 John 3

      14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1 John 3
      Matthew 5:44

      But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

      1 Corinthians
      13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

      4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

      8 Charity never faileth:

      Luke 6:33-35

      Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.d loved the way Jesus said too, if they had a relationship of prayer with Jesus and truly got to know Him, the way Jesus says too, because we can do nothing without Jesus, things would be different.

  • Lee

    I am a deconvert. I am one based on logic and some emotion. I am simply tired of feeling so bad about things that I can’t change, feeling condemned for those things constantly, praying and waiting on God to change my heart. I have been waiting for now on 10 years and it hasn’t happened yet. If doing the same action repeatedly results in failure, but I keep trying anyway the short answer is that my action is crazy. I have concluded waiting on ‘God’ to be insanity. I have instead decided to live with my heart as a guide and not some book. I focus on treating others fairly, with tolerance and respect, and being honest in all things. Not to do harm to anyone else, and taking direct action to change my behavior. It has been a liberating experience. I now live in the present, enjoying and embracing the moment. I am no longer trapped in chains of shame and helplessness. Christianity just didn’t work for me. I used to believe Christianity to be an exclusive path, now I am not so sure.

    • KeepSmilin

      Actually what you did by “treating others fairly, with tolerance and respect and being honest in all things” IS what Christianity really is about. What you were following prior to that was religion. Most Christians are simply religious people who have never really grasped the true meaning of the words of Yeshua.

  • Wayne Pruski

    I am very disappointed in where “faith” has brought me. I want to provide an example of the lack of power I experienced in Christianity….
    I have a mental illness, passed down from my mother’s side. I also have an addiction passed down from my father’s side. Both of these ailments have cost me tremendously.
    I became a Christian in 1996 and followed the christian faith vehemently for 10+ years. I was “discipled” by many older in the church – served in ministry for 10+ years – even worked for the church at times. One talent I have because of my bipolar is memorization. I’ve memorized over 2,000 bible verses – always putting my hopes into the Word which could save me. Well, as I said, my life, because of my mental illness and addiction has eroded over the years. My health became so bad last year, that I was hospitalized because of a mental breakdown. All the while “praying”, “reading the Word”, “spending time with God’s people” and “serving”. I was so distraught at the mental breakdown, I decided to do an experiment – as I went through my 4 month long hospital program, I would not even consider anything of faith or religion or the bible. I would simply be treated by medical knowhow. Do you know what happened? I got better!!! For 4 months of the program, I did not dabble in addiction, and my thinking was clear. I even met someone and we started dating! Something I had “begged” God for 10 years prior. I wasn’t laiden with guilt and a daily “carrying of some unforseen cross”. Ok, double blind test – I got out of the hospital program, returned to my church, and now, after 4 months of following the “teachings” guess what? I am back to being miserable, my addiction is back in full bore, the girl is gone from my life, and I feel guilty and ashamed all the time again! Wow! Thanks christianity!

    • Patience

      It is hard to understand why when you went back to your church you fell as we do not know what kind of teaching you are subjecting yourself to. But just from reading your comments I do feel there is something not right with it and why the program helped was that you simply rested and lived your life when you decided to go into the program.

      Listen Christianity is not meant to be so complicated. It is simply a friendship with God. Talk to him, enjoy Him, take your medicine. Don’t beg and beg and beg for what is yours. Sounds like there is a striving mentality in your church. I would back away from the church, dust off your bible and take sometime to refresh yourself privately with the Lord, no conditions, no strivings, no imaginary cross (which He didn’t give you)…just talk to Him, listen to some lovely music and smell the roses.

  • MeToo

    I know how you feel. I have prayed, helped many people, did everything I know to do for “GOD”, and after over 25 years of praying for deliverance from physical and mental problems, God has seeming failed me.

  • samuel

    am a christian i love GOD cos he is mysterious, i love Jesus cos he is so real to me more than the bible; i am in an intimate relatioship wit the holy spirit cos he reveals the death, burial, resurrection of JESUS to me more than the bible’ i love this world cos it is full of probelms that makes it possible for me to look up to jesus for the heavenly mansions john 14vs2. i hope is built on nothing easy but on jesus the solid rock other grands is sinking sands. religion is not from God. relationship is what GOD wants from us. isaiah 9vs6. Jesus the prince of peace.all my deconverted friends God is always right take it or leave it. Jesus i love u weather u bless me. heal me’ deliver me or not. the bible the only book that carries the hope of humanity john 4vs24 worship God wit ur spirit not ur head; intellectual ability, oh people of God an eroneous definition of faith is one problem some are having hebrews 11vs 36 to40 is my definition of faith in this last days peoples love for christ are failing. u are a spirit u have a soul, and u live in a body 1thessalonians 5vs23 let nt the desires of ur body kill the purpose Jesus has for ur spirit and soul 2corithans 5vs8.from nigeria u guys are blessed in Jesus mighty name

  • Patience

    I don’t have all the answers and I have had my deep doubts and fears as well. I honestly think every Christian will at some point or another face doubt in their faith walk. It is always the threshold to the next level of maturity, where you either chose to believe him because He is or not. It is a crossroad for many when everything is striped away in some sense and it is now a simple question of, “was it about me or not?” But I am still a Christian and what I have found out after coming through the valley of doubt is I had to rework my theology in many cases. I now just rest in Him, know He knows better than me, want His will not mine and through it all, have made up my mind to follow him whether i have answers or not. Let us not forget that those that came before us many times were burnt for the faith, sewed asunder, fed to lions, martyred. We are promised a spiritual kingdom, here and now we are to rest and submit.

    Maybe modern christianity prepares us for getting something from God and we forget that many of the witnesses from the past served God, ‘no matter the cost.’ The life we live we live not for ourselves as we are crucified with Christ but we live for Christ. If we are to walk through the fiery furnace, we pray for the strength to do so. That is Christianity. We have not had answered prayers, we have seen hypocrisy, we have seen pain etc but we have not suffered until the spilling of our blood. None of us have.

    Those who felt guilt and guilt and condemnation please please leave your burdens to the Lord. Your sins were nailed to the cross and buried with Christ. That is a done deal. Reckon it as so and relax in the finished work. If you fall, rise up, clean yourself and carry on. You don’t have to go ‘earning’ your holiness. The third person of the trinity, The Holy Spirit is in you and will empower you. Rest in that. A lot of churches imply work and busyness for freedom – Come every sunday, and wednesday, serve multiple hours, be in some ministry…busy, busy, busy. So busy it is a substitute for intimate conversations with God on a private basis. Our power is in prayer. If anyone asked me, and i have been saved 23 years, i will say to any Christian, if you want to learn or develop any discipline that will help your christian walk, it is the discipline of prayer. Never neglect that. There was a result Jesus would pray for hours, even all night. Cultivate that. Not a 5 mins prayer while brushing your teeth. Not a quickie as you run to the car but adequate time connecting to God. Again i say, THAT IS OUR POWER. So much to write but i hope i have helped.

    • Deb

      You have helped, Patience.

    • Dee

      I find potential wisdom in your message, and I am a Christ-seeker having doubts.

      • Neil

        Your not having doubts you are starting to think rationally which is a very good thing. Keep it up.

    • KeepSmilin

      Glad you found your recipe for success. Unfortunately, it’s a home made brew and won’t work for the rest of the world.

    • Neil

      Your not having doubts you are starting to think rationally which is a very good thing. Keep it up and be a better person..

    • Lynda Falls

      Great truth

  • David

    Well at least I see that I am not alone in this. Let me tell you what my experience has been and where I find myself at present. When I started to read the Bible and listen to sermons about ten years ago I never had any sense of sin, eternal damnation, basically I understood nothing and this went on for about one year where my only concern was with what God can do for me and my happiness and prosperity. My prayers were prayers like, Jesus if you will help me in this and make me a success in my endeavour I will stop smoking and be a good boy, pathetic I know. Then with time when nothing happened I started to think there is something wrong with me or I must first do or become something for God to answer me, so I started to read the Bible for the first time to understand it and see what my role and Gods role is. I soon realised that God will only answer prayers that align up with his will. So the next faze was where I tried to bring the words that I read in the Bible into my life with power, words mean nothing if there is no change no reality no power. I wish I could say that some of my prayers have been answered but I would only be lying and what purpose will that serve. I truly do not know how to reconcile this. I find in Gods word many promises that are very clear in there intent and meaning but the problem is that for me they have never been answered. What can I say to this. God says to me if I pray to him in his name according to his will believing I will have whatever my petition may be. To be fair one or two or maybe even up to ten instances where a person does this and nothing happens could be understood but if the formula says this and the person does what the formula says and nothing ever happens, what then, how shall we reconcile this. I know not all I know for a fact is that God is real Jesus is real, why he has not been there for me or answered any of my prayers I know not. People have given me answers like these . You have sin in your life. Such a argument makes no sense. I come to Jesus to be delivered from sin my very prayer is to be set free from sin and they tell me my prayer is not answered because I am wicked. What futility. I don’t know anymore to be honest I also do not care anymore. All I know is that years of prayer have done nothing for me. This leaves me with this final conclusion that in life if you want to see change or be the change like the hippies say you can only rely on your self. I should have listened to my dad who once said to me, David the sooner you realize that in life you only have yourself and you can only rely on yourself you will save yourself from futile sorrows. All I know is I look for God but he is never there, I call on his name but hear only silence, the only thought that brings some small comfort to me is that this meaningless life will soon be over and I will go to the place prepared for me.

    • Lynda Falls

      I pray Jesus heal your heart

      28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

  • Gary

    I left the faith for many personal reason. I won’t deny many are selfish, but in my opinion some are not. As cliche as it sounds my doubts started young. I watched my mother degenerate from a lovely vibrant woman to a vegetable slowly over 3 years and then die. My father wasn’t wholly abusive but did slap and throw me around alot as a child. And after mom died it got much worse. I prayed constantly and loudly for god to just make him stop. Never happened. It took me beating him down, my own father, for him to stop laying hands on me. When I was 19 I joined the military and watched a very good friend shoot himself because his girlfriend broke up with him and not to mention the bullet struck me as well since I was standing behind him.
    Everything I’ve tried to do in my life has blown up in my face literally and figuratively. Several times I’ve been told I get a promotion and then the next day I’m told “Sorry but ______ will get it.” this person always seems to be the son of my bosses personal friend or someone politically connected. I’ve prayed so hard for that promotion so I can help my siblings out with their children, but as always I’m pushed to the back burner and told to wait. Many times I’ve prayed for understanding of my life situation but always get kicked in the teeth for asking for help. Everytime I’ve counseled with a church leader They never want me to explain what’s bothering me and just want to tell me where I’m wrong at all times. I truly feel like god has abandoned me and I was just born on this planet to be a play thing to see how miserable I can be. I want the inner pain and turmoil to end and never get any relief. I’m to the point of wanting to kill myself because I seem to get no answers or help of any kind from my creator. I am left handed and since I grew up Catholic the nuns and priests would severely punish me for using my left hand to write with or even wave at someone. God made that way why am I being punished was my childhood anthem. There are several more thing I can add on here but just don’t see the sense in saying them. I’m sure I’ll be punished somehow for writing this but I’m used to it.

    God I just want to know why I’m in pain and why I’ve had to suffer the way I have. Why don’t you answer me? I thought I mattered to you. Can’t you see my tears on the inside? can’t you see my heart tearing itself apart everyday? Why god did I become an alcoholic? Why do you ignore me all the time? Why must I be the one you pick on? Why do you seem to hate me when all I’ve ever been told is you love me? I want and need an answer god. I know you can see how close I am to ending it all myself.

    • Ray

      Interesting…
      I’m an alcoholic, I too am left handed. So who made you so fucking special? HU?

      Mr…. Your good…
      But try to understand that you have responsibilities.
      1. You have a responsibility to learn all you can… though hardships…
      2. You have a responsibility to share all of your experience because if you don’t – only then will you have failed…
      Hang in there and don’t leave before the miracle. Got it?

      There are things you just cant change… But if you accept them they get better. So will you.

      • Dee

        What do mean by “before the miracle?” I really hope you are not claiming to be Christian. Your attitude and cuss word (sin) is not going to convince Gary. Consider what you are writing.

      • Dee

        When people cuss in writing, and not just by a mere slip of the tongue, I seriously question their salvation, and others should too. People claiming to be Christians can sometimes do this, though I don’t know if you are claiming to be one.

    • Lynda Falls

      One thing never changes though and that is that fact that Jesus gave up His glory in heaven and came to earth and lived as an example and then died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected on the third day. He forgives our sins and washes us clean and has prepared a place in heaven for us to live with Him for eternal life and not perish. Jesus is Lord and Saviour and has all authority and a great plan of salvation for us, a hope and a future with Him. Jesus does love us, but sure would be great if Christians could begin loving each other without giving up living holy pure lives of obedience and all the while giving up pride and self righteous arrogance.

  • Paul

    I can totally understand why Christians lose their faith. But I can also see how Christians can push people who are hurting over the edge also. When you life is total garbage when you are losing everything when God has been saying “No” to every prayer you have prayed big and small for years and years on end, when all you see is things actually getting worse when you pray. All those canned Christian explanations of ” God has a plan” “you must not be praying right” or the one that really gets me mad ” look what happened to Job” I’m sick of hearing about Job… I’m not Job. I’m 56 years old and I see no hope no chance. I’ve been waiting on God, well guess what I
    waited and now its to late. Unless a “miracle” happens overnight I’m losing everything. I only have one thing left to look forward to and that is death. But I can’t quicken that to come because its an unforgivable sin. My life on earth had been a living hell and I do not care to spend eternity there also. My personal opinion is that God does not care about our lives here on earth, salvation, and faith and everything else is for the life after death. While here on earth were no different then the ants you see on the ground. And it has been my experience that God gives no more thought to our lives as we do for the ants. He will not and does not answer prayers, and most of the time when I hear about a prayer answered for others there is usually a earthly explanation, and if there isn’t, I have to wonder why God can ignore so many of His followers, turn and uncaring sholder to suffering people that pray, beg and plead for help. I know the canned Christian response:
    ” we live in an imperfect world” or “it isn’t God’s will” So if that is true then it Must Be HIS will that little children die a horrible death, that young little girls are raped, that people starve to death, that good Christian people lose their jobs, homes, children or other loved ones to cancer, murder, sickness, that is the rewards for being a good Christian follower of Christ????? I just keep smoking and figure cigarettes will kill me eventually at least that way my life insurance can take care of my family because I certainly can not and my prayers for any help always fall on deaf ears. My family’s only chance is my death. So much for all the promises in the Bible, I’ve never seen one come close to happening in this world. Should say: seek and you shall find nothing, knock and the door shall be slamed in your face, ask anything and the answer will always be NO.

    • Liv

      We are all disappointed in God sometimes. My disappointment in God led me to this site. As a Christian, I understand that bad things happen because God gave people “free will”. People choose to do bad things with that free will. Raping little girls was your example. Murder. Drunk driving. God often doesn’t prevent those because if He took away humanity’s free will, we’d be robots. Causing humans to be robots would not be the act of a loving God. But He is grieved when those things occur. My question and disappointment with God is not why He allows bad things to happen – (the “canned response” that you mentioned, that we live in a sinful world, is the truth – because He allows us the freedom to sin) – but why He doesn’t protect His people from suffering. Psalm 121 and Psalm 91 speak of God’s protection. I struggle, not because God didn’t prevent a man from driving drunk, but because my best friend, a Christian who loved the Lord with all her heart, was killed by his bad decision. Where were my friend’s angels? The only answer is that the Lord wanted to take her home to be with Him. Christians have to die somehow. We all have our appointed time to go to be with the Lord. The Bible doesn’t promise that we won’t suffer in this world. It says “In this world we will have sorrow. But I have overcome the world.” John 16:33. Our rewards are not on this earth, they are in heaven.
      I don’t understand why God heals some and not others, why some live with sickness. The book “How to be a prayer warrior” lists some reasons why prayers may go unanswered, for example, harboring unforgiveness towards others. So far I have not been healed of something serious, but I was healed of other things through prayer. When a healing minister touched my arm, immediately water that had been trapped in my lungs for 4 months was coughed up. One day after asking the Lord to take away my severe dust allergies, my allergies had disappeared completely. (I noticed after emptying out a bagless vacuum cleaner and I didn’t sneeze once). Neither was healed through medicine or science. I don’t know why the Lord heals some things and not others. I am disappointed in Him for many things. But His ways are higher than my ways. His thoughts are higher than my thoughts. And He has proven Himself to me more times than I can discount.
      Even if you give up on Him, Paul, even if you “lost everything,” His love for you is so great that you could never comprehend it. His love for you is so great, His yearning for you so great, that He may allow you to “lose everything” just so that you turn to Him with your whole heart. Often that is what it takes for Him to get our full attention, for us to seek Him fully. He wants to be the center of our lives. He wants to be the center of yours.
      You mentioned that you have a family. That is a blessing that many people don’t have. Thank Him for them.
      God bless.

    • lala

      sometimes it is the glasses that you are wearing that prevents u from seeing god’s presence . you do not want god you want a power to solve your problems . he is a person when you get to know him and want him not abuse him ,you will see that he is life not the the things you want to get rid of or to happen

    • Lynda Falls

      I understand pain and loss too. Jesus is still Lord and Saviour, He has plans to give people hope and future of eternal life with Him. Jesus does love us. He left His glory in heaven to come to earth and die for our sins and forgive us and wash us clean and give us life everlasting rather than us perish. I do not understand the cold indifference shown by many Christians though. But the truth of Jesus will never pass away and Jesus is love.

  • Reality

    I have been a christian since I was 7 years old, my life has been hell on earth, when it come to sin I I could have all I wanted but when it can to walking with GOD, it was as HE was no where to be seen, when the HOLY Spirit would speak to me it was always unsure.
    When something happen in my life, it was too early or too late.
    Peace, confusion, hurt, unsound, these are the things that came with my walk and relationship with GOD as a Christians so far, CHRISTIANS:being one myself, they are the worse most corruptible kind of people I know, They will do the most corrupt sinful things you can think of, then use the bible, the church and local law enforcement to help them self to do what crime they are doing,then use them to get away with what they have done and protect them self from any legal action.
    This year, I will be a believer 47 years and after today if GOD doesn’t do something in some way to speak to me after all.this life I’ve been through, I give up.
    My wife is a new young christian believer and prays a lot and we have been through hell together. I don’ think that prayers should be at ones death to be answered by GOD. I feel that the promises that GOD made to us should be honored not some of the time and not to a select few but to all.
    When JESUS said trust me: Well I took that to heart
    I hurt all over my body knowing what could take place today, Will Jesus be faithful or will he be as every body else?
    Most people don’t understand the position I am in, I have lived as a christian and been a christian all my life and to give up is it seems a part of me is dying.
    But, a man must test his belief, and Jesus said taste and see that lord is good.
    Then He said I am the good shepherd and I know my sheep.
    To many people are crying out for Jesus
    .

  • SJ

    I’d like to point out something else here. While some Christians do leave the Church, I would say that many more respond to being disappointed by God by rebelling against Him, often in subtle and secret ways.

    For instance, if you’re married and unhappy with your spouse, do you always just get a divorce? Of course not. You may withhold sex, stop engaging in meaningful conversation, etc. Same with Christians. They may rebel in ways such as:

    1) Disobeying promptings from the Holy Spirit to perform certain tasks.
    2) Neglecting their quiet time and prayer.
    3) Swearing under their breath (but not out loud, lest someone hear them).
    4) Refusing to be vulnerable toward God or to trust Him.
    5) Entertaining constant negative thoughts.
    6) Giving less money to the Church.

    I’m sure there are dozens more. Anyway, that’s how I often respond to disappointment to God. I won’t leave the relationship, but I often develop the attitude of: “I may still serve You, but I don’t have to like You or trust You.” :)

    • Neil

      Sounds like Stockholm syndrome only to something that is not there but even when you suspect that is the case you remain to fearful to accept the obvious conclusion. You have been deceived by your church, by your “faith”, by yourself. you even state you need to keep pouring money down the hole or maybe you just want to prop up the false community you feel apart of.
      You need to step up have belief in yourself, let the truth set you free and be a better person, one not ruled over by a false reality but one who revels in the wonder of the real world.

    • Lynda Falls

      I think one of the big reasons is the lack of love. If people saw genuine love they would whether the storms so much better, they would have joy and strength.

      Romans 5:5

      and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

      1 John 3

      14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1 John 3

      Matthew 5:44

      But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

      1 Corinthians

      13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

      4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

      8 Charity never faileth:

      Luke 6:33-35

      Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. he sensed, he spoke about his feelings. Is pride more important than being meek? Can you feel empathy? Sense his pain? Try to understand and reach out on love, care, compassion and kindness?

  • Faith Hill

    This happens to me, i have been diagnosed several mental illness and my condition become worse..I have prayed for too many times, my friends and family even know me as the most religious man. But sadly and shame on me , though i am the religious but i am the most failed man. i am 29 and still no job, i have graduated from the reputable univ but still no job. That make me feel embarrassed. no body care for me even my family and parents.I have to deal with my condition ALONE, coz i pray but seems no answer or there is no God. I have taken the medicines but not much help. I am facing my death, i am frustrated, there is no hope for me. I used to think that God is my only solution and the answer, but thinking like that makes condition worse.
    Pray and hope for God, read the bible, sing for god makes my condition isn’t better.
    But i still pray and hope that someday he want to look down on me and notice me. But i don’t know how long will i can hold this…

  • James olu

    My name is RICHARD from USA, i am giving this testimony because i got my ex wife back with the powerful spell of DR SAM, it all happen five years ago when my wife left me without no reason, i was so confuse because i love her so much, and there is nothing i can do without her, i though of taking my live because so was the only joy of my life. i love her so much. one day i saw an old friend of my, he ask me about my wife and i told him every thing that happen, he told me not to worry that there is a solution to every problem in life. he took me to a great DR called DR SAM, he told me that she will come back after casting the spell for me, i thought it was a joke, two days later i saw my wife in my house begging for forgiveness, who am i not to forgive her, today we are the most cooperate couple in town, you can also contact him with this email address. drsamcurehome@gmail.com

    • Anthony uren

      Apparently DR Sam is a valid candidate for the Ducking stool

      • Anthony uren

        Joke

  • Fading_Shadow

    Either God answers prayer within the needed time frame and within the limits of our natural ability to perceive a direct, verifiable answer to our prayer, or He doesn’t. The Bible doesn’t teach that He might answer prayers if He blame well feels like it, whenever He gets around to it; nor does it teach that our prayers are not answered because God is trying to teach us something, build character within us, or telling us to ‘wait awhile.’ In fact, having been raised in a Baptist home, the 3 possibles for prayers were; 1. Yes 2. No 3 Wait awhile. I could logically apply these outcomes to a doorknob and get the same response as I have from praying to their God.
    I’ve stopped believing in that God of my childhood, because He has utterly failed me. I kept a record of my specific prayers, and His specific response for 2 years and nothing.
    I’m tired of defending, rationalizing, and trying to explain away yet another failure of God to answer a simple request; I’m sick of this God claiming that He loves us, wants a personal relationship with us, yet cannot be seen, felt, heard, nor do events show any miraculous interventions about anything.
    So, God, you can find someone else to ‘worship and adore’ you, because I’m so done.

  • Mr DANIEL ROTH

    Mr DANIEL ROTH

    I got married in 2009 and since then we had no children. Due to this and several other reasons, me and my spouse were always quarreling and fighting and I was regretting seriously ever getting into that marriage. I believed that something spiritual was affecting my marriage and I later confirm with the belief that a spiritual husband was involved somewhere. By this time, my marriage was on the verge of collapse. But when I say a testimony about one D.RRIVERSHEBALIST spell caster on the internet so he told me the problem is over after the spell have be cast, my understanding / mindset started changing, especially when I got the reading and the casting was completed : Spiritual Warfare, Back to Sender ;revolutionized my mindset and whole – being. I then called my wife and reconciled with her. I taught her what I learnt from the spell caster D.RRIVERSHEBALIST and your messages and now the result is a happy marriage. There is now peace in my home and my business has been revived. My wife is finally pregnant and we are expecting our first baby with joy.HELP ME To THANK D.RRIVERSHEBALIST for the joy and happiness he brought to my life.contact him via:d.rrivershebalisthome@gmail.com

  • Honestly The Truth

    Well with many of us men and women out there that don’t have a love life right now, that certainly explains it. Doesn’t It?

  • Swata

    I had a huge bust up with my partner and he left me, i was so frustrated and i email Dr. Stanley and he said he could help, I must admit, I was very, very skeptical as didn’t really believe he would be back after all he said, but it was just a few days when he phoned and asked to come over to talk, we talked and talked and the silly misunderstanding was all forgiven and we are back together now for good, all thanks to drstanleyspelltemple@hotmail.com, I would highly recommend his services, they do really, really work.

  • Guest

    Some Medicine for The Wounded (non-Christian Medicine, that is)

    Wow.
    Reading these posts is like hearing my own thoughts spoken back to me. It is reassuring to know that I am not alone when experiencing this kind of crisis in Christian faith. Unfortunately, this problem is epidemic and the Church is in denial of it. Powerful is the effect of this denial upon the Faithful. Many Christians suffer in their lives with physical pain, emotional and psychological torment, and spiritual anguish. They sit quietly in the back pews and remain silent about their doubts and concerns, for fear they’ll be considered heretics or esteemed as prayer cases.

    All this is common to the Christian’s lot, so they’re told. The Christian is, of course, warned they shall “enter the Kingdom through much tribulation.” Yes, we’ve heard it all before. And it seems that no matter how out of hand and horrific a Christian’s plight is, his fellow believers remain the worst comforters anywhere. Today’s Church has no physicians. The people involved with this mess have been so hurt, damaged and abused by this “loving” god and his tradition, that people like Marlene Winell have a separate theraputic practice for those who’ve suffered religious abuse. And many Christians feel safer and more enabled when they seek out the advice and company of either atheists, or of those skeptics and Deists (like myself) who have the guts to call things out for what they are without having to defend a creed or a catechism.

    I’ll offer my own perspective on what I think is happening here. And I am not writing this because I give one damn about theological correctness, neither do I care a whit for those such as the poster call-signed “almamu”, who throw the “good” book at anyone who dares to feel, write, and think as a human, without spouting the Company Line.

    First, I would suggest to those hurting out there that they stop treating the Bible as the Word of God, and start getting more ballsy about questioning what they’ve been taught to believe by others. It is a dangerous thing to abdicate from the throne of one’s own life and put a book or a supposed deity in the place that rightfully belongs to you.

    Surrendering one’s will and mind to a religion–any religion–is dangerous. Evil spirits love self-negation, self-abdication, self-hatred, self-doubt, and the repression of the Self in most of its more positive forms. Beware when any entity or human attempts to seduce you or threaten you into yielding up your authority over your own life. It’s not salvation. It’s a trap designed to appear as a solution.

    Second: Who told any of you there was only one god? The biblical god did. And how do you know this is true? Because he said so. And to whose advantage is it for you to obey such a statement: yours or his? That is for you to answer. But remember: he’s jealous because he has a reason to be. If those gods are no gods, then why the fuss? Think about it. If they are no gods, then you cannot have any gods before him…because they simple “are not.” He’s fretting over a shadow, a mere concept. Is that all our Creator is made of? Such petty, hand-wringing stuff? Makes one wonder, doesn’t it?

    During the Dark Ages of my life, when things were so bad that I was at the precipice of suicide daily, this god and his Jesus did nothing to help me. They violated their promises and turned the ‘truth’ of theirs words into a lie. I asked for a fish. I received a serpent. I opened my mouth and asked this god to fill it with good things. He filled it with gravel and ashes. I pleaded with him not to bruise this broken reed. He snapped me in two and then quenched my smoking flax.

    This went on, over and over again, for 15 years. Nothing I did, nothing I confessed, nothing I repented for and nothing I did well was ever enough. And I’d have thought that if this was Satan’s doing that this “loving Father” would have halted this horror seeing it had too often gone too far. But no. That did not happen. And that’s when I began asking who is who and what is what.

    This left me astonished and afflicted me with the worst case of cognitive dissonance I’ve ever experienced. Then one night, at the very end of myself and near suicide, I prayed this prayer, having lost all confidence in this god. I said, “Will SOMEBODY out there PLEASE help me?”

    What happened? A Goddess came to me and aided me instead. I did not believe in Her, neither did I summon her or pray to Her. I was, during this season, still of a Christian worldview and mindset. Yet in She came. She did more for me during that short period of time than the biblical god did in 15 years. And if I had the space here I’d astonish you at the things I discovered both about myself, and what is really going on in the spirit world.

    And no: Satan has not deceived me. I’ve already put Her and others to a most severe test. She passed. The biblical god did not, and I questioned and challenged him (even biblically) with some intensity. And what unbiblical reactions did I receive!

    I’ll end this with this: what is actually happening in the spiritual world and what we are TOLD is happening are two very different stories. And the identities of the players in this drama are not who you think they are.

    Third: For those Readers curious or confused about Number 2 above, I have this suggestion: Study Genesis chapter 3 AGAIN, but this time with your eyes open. Everything you need to know about what is really going on there is hidden in plain sight.

    And if you read and re-read that section about the Serpent and pay close attention to who is saying what and who was right about what, you’ll be nothing short of astonished and dumbfounded about how you did not see the truth sooner. (Hint: the LORD God Christians pray to–and should not pray to–has violated the Laws of the Gods and Goddesses and the Serpent came to put up a challenge to that).

    Fourth: I know firsthand that demons and evil spirits exist. I’ve fought them. And they were directly connected to my involvement with Christianity. This god and his Jesus failed me so badly and so frequently, that I eventually turned my back on the both of them, and sought out the aid of a shaman in an effort to save my own life. I am NOT advocating the Reader to do the same, but am only telling you what I did to help myself. I not only accomplished a successful soul retrieval and healed from a childhood trauma, but began to learn who this biblical god actually was, and how and why he was harming me.

    I also began to learn about the real story of my life; the spiritual forces behind the scenes who were afflicting me, and what the meaning was behind those ‘dissimilar’ events of my life which now have taken on a tremendous significance. I am better now than ever I was while a Christian.

    Five: I determined to be faithful to my own convictions and not be bullied or dictated to by this religion. For those of us who have abdicated to this Faith, nothing is harder than taking your place in your own life again. But I assure you this deity is not just going to roll over and give it back to you. Prepare for a fight. Courage is the King of all Virtue. But courage also enables one to see what the cowardly do not. Expect a spiritual war to break out and please understand: the identities of your attackers is not what you thought it to be. Be prepared to UN-learn MUCH. Expect an epistemological crisis and upheaval.

    Let this admonition from Virgil steel your soul:
    “Grow in your new courage, child,
    “O son of Gods and ancestor of Gods:
    “THIS is the way to scale the stars.”
    The Aeneid, Bk. IX

    Sixth and most importantly: follow the path that leads to your soul. Stop playing the martyr. For the Christian (particularly women) this is extremely difficult. But–it is NOT impossible. Start being faithful to yourself and begin to explore those things you delighted in before you were terrorized into being a slave for Jesus, and with all the emotional blackmail that Golgotha threw at your feet. If you are uncertain about what your authentic passions might be, then ask yourself this one question: “What would I like to do with my life if I knew I did not need to please this god, or remain a Christian? What should I like to become and accomplish?”

    Heretical question, yes. But rammed with Life.

    For additional help, seek out Marlene Winell’s book, Leaving the Fold. Search for her on the web also.

  • Truth

    God created beings that can feel pain and then he put them in an environment that will bring pain to them. If he is omniscient he created everything intending for the existence of pain and misery. He is responsible for every misfortune ever to occur here, and for that may he suffer eternal misery. Or of course he doesn’t exist.

  • Melissa

    Special thanks go to God almighty for using dr.zack balo in curing my Cancer disease, I was having a Breast Cancer and doctor told me that I have two years to live, that news brought sadness into my life, I was depressed, don’t know what to do. One faithful day I saw a testimony on how a spell caster cured a lady, who is called Holly, due to her testimony the man is a great man, quickly I copied his email, then I contacted him and he asked me not to bother myself that all my problems are over. I was happy to hear such words, he told me to buy some items, though I couldn’t find the items myself he asked me to send down the money to buy the items for me, faithfully I sent him the money he bought the items and prepared a cure for me. He told me that he is going to send the cure through courier delivery service, I paid to the courier delivery service, then, I got the cure, he instructed me on how I will take the cure. I took the cure and I was freed from the cancer, I went for scanning, the cancer was no longer there. I am very grateful for what he did for me. If you have any disease you can contact him via email on wiseindividualspell@gmail.com

  • Elian

    Christianity is quite simply nothing but a tool for enslavement. It is a
    despicable, spirit destroying and corrosive influence on all who are infected
    by it, heart and mind. For those who wish to take the time to find out the
    extensive truth about this damnable pack of lies, I suggest this -

    http://see_the_truth.webs.com/

  • Deb

    This is spam and should be removed. It’s off topic and if you google the 1st sentence it’s all over the internet

  • stella kyes

    My husband has abandon me and the kids for the the past 8months now, and refuse to come back because he was hold on by a woman whom he just met, for that, my self and the kids has been suffering and it has been heel of a struggle, but I decide to do all means to make sure that my family come together as it use to, then I went online there I saw so many good talk about this spell caster whose email is onimalovespell@gmail.com so I had to contact him and explain my problem to him and in just 3days as he has promised, my husband came home and his behavior was back to the man i got married to. I cant thank the spell caster enough for what he did for me, i am so grateful and i will never stop to publish his name on the internet for the good work he has done for me,once again his email is onimalovespell@gmail.com

  • MALISA

    i just got my ex back few days ago through the help of Dr Lawrence i am so happy that finally my ex is back i do love him so much and i can’t resist a moment without him in my life,really i have been looking for a real and genuine spell caster who could bring him back to me but thank God today he is back and i own all thanks to this great spell caster Dr Lawrence for his kind help drlawrencespelltemple@hotmail.com

  • Kelly Rowland

    I want to share my testimony to you all which i believe you can still
    try your best to give a testimony like me so i was married to michael
    at first will both love each other but short time he started a new
    behavior which i cannot even explain to any one then i keep it to my
    self hoping one day he will change for good no way he did not change
    so i was in pain every day don’t no what to do on till one day when a
    friend of mine visited me in my office she met me crying then she was
    asking me what is going on i try to be calm but i could not then i
    open up to her telling me there is a way out which i will do before he
    left me with my kids i look up and not knowing what to do then i ask
    her to tell me. shortly she open up to me and say there is a man
    called prophetbaret he is a spirit man he can do it with in two days
    then i look an said okay i will try my best to contact him three days
    later, my husband did not come home i called his phone switch off then
    i try my possible best i did not hear from him so i began to look for
    one way for a help so i remember my friend that told me about one man
    call prophetbaret i quickly run to my friend asking her if she still
    have prophetbaret contact then she gave it to me that was how i
    contacted this great man of spirit he did it for me so quick so now i
    can now control my husband in any thing even i can tell him that i
    don’t want him outside today he will not. Now i have a happy family so
    you can contact him via email; prophetbaret@gmail.com
    (1) If you want your ex back.
    (2) if you always have bad dreams.
    (3) You want to be promoted in your office.
    (4) You want women/men to run after you.
    (5) If you want a child.
    (6) You want to be rich.
    (7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be
    yours forever.
    (8) If you need financial assistance.
    (9) Herbal care
    (10) If you can be able to satisfy your wife
    sex desire due
    to low erraction.
    (11) if your menstruation refuse to come
    out the day it
    suppose or over flows.
    (12) if your work refuse to pay your, people
    owing you?.
    (13) solve a land issue and get it back.
    (14) Did your family Denny you of your
    right?
    (15) Let people obey my words and do my
    which.
    (16) Do you have a low sperm count?
    (17) Court Case E.T.C (prophetbaret@gmail.com)

  • Kelly Rowland

    I want to share my testimony to you all which i believe you can still
    try your best to give a testimony like me so i was married to michael
    at first will both love each other but short time he started a new
    behavior which i cannot even explain to any one then i keep it to my
    self hoping one day he will change for good no way he did not change
    so i was in pain every day don’t no what to do on till one day when a
    friend of mine visited me in my office she met me crying then she was
    asking me what is going on i try to be calm but i could not then i
    open up to her telling me there is a way out which i will do before he
    left me with my kids i look up and not knowing what to do then i ask
    her to tell me. shortly she open up to me and say there is a man
    called prophetbaret he is a spirit man he can do it with in two days
    then i look an said okay i will try my best to contact him three days
    later, my husband did not come home i called his phone switch off then
    i try my possible best i did not hear from him so i began to look for
    one way for a help so i remember my friend that told me about one man
    call prophetbaret i quickly run to my friend asking her if she still
    have prophetbaret contact then she gave it to me that was how i
    contacted this great man of spirit he did it for me so quick so now i
    can now control my husband in any thing even i can tell him that i
    don’t want him outside today he will not. Now i have a happy family so
    you can contact him via email; prophetbaret@gmail.com
    (1) If you want your ex back.
    (2) if you always have bad dreams.
    (3) You want to be promoted in your office.
    (4) You want women/men to run after you.
    (5) If you want a child.
    (6) You want to be rich.
    (7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be
    yours forever.
    (8) If you need financial assistance.
    (9) Herbal care
    (10) If you can be able to satisfy your wife
    sex desire due
    to low erraction.
    (11) if your menstruation refuse to come
    out the day it
    suppose or over flows.
    (12) if your work refuse to pay your, people
    owing you?.
    (13) solve a land issue and get it back.
    (14) Did your family Denny you of your
    right?
    (15) Let people obey my words and do my
    which.
    (16) Do you have a low sperm count?
    (17) Court Case E.T.C (prophetbaret@gmail.com)

  • filia_san

    I can sum up why I left Christianity, in two words: Other Christians.

  • FredN

    The Bible does not make ambiguous claims about the effectiveness of prayer. The disappointment with prayer experienced by so many believers, says the author, is because of a misplaced sense of ‘social exchange’.

    But what are we to do with the Bible’s clear words about how prayer is supposed to work? Ask, receive. Knock, it’s opened. Seek, you’ll find. Believe, the mountain moves. Have faith, it will be done. Be persistent, an answer will come. The Bible is full of this kind of talk.

    Other than a few obscure phrases, Jesus (and most of the Bible) never gives much time to unanswered prayer. Jesus speaks only of its trustworthy reliability, of its power, of God’s unfailing commitment to answering it. And herein lies the trouble with blaming it on a failed social exchange. God is the one who initiates the promises about prayer. This is not a mere human making promises to us. We expect humans to drop the ball. No. This is the Creator, the Savior, the only God himself making clear, unambiguous promises about prayer. We expect another human to mess up on their word. But God? It is not merely disappointing, but unsettling at the deepest level of our faith. It would be so much easier had God said, “I am here. I made everything. I gave you my son, Jesus. Now it’s up to every human to make good on what I’ve given. You’re on your own. Please do not ask for anything more than what I’ve already provided. Life on earth will be fraught with internal and external difficulty, but stick with me to the end and I promise it will all be worth it in heaven.”

    Given the real human experience (the one most believers pretend is not actually happening), this would have been a much more believable message. It would transmit authentic hope. But the Bible does not say this. It says to pray always without ceasing. Ask. Petition. Seek. Cry out. Do these things and you will receive healing, deliverance, change, alteration, repair, and freedom.

    Taken in the aggregate, the Bible’s words about prayer fall along these general lines, “If you (the believer) do this, I (God) will do this.” It’s in writing. So can we take these statements at face value or not? If yes, then something is clearly not working. If no, then that presents yet another problem. Either way, the Bible’s words become suspect. Only an irrational, I-believe-no-matter-what kind of person could draw a different conclusion.

    Why do millions and millions of good, unselfish, beautiful, legitimate pleas go consistently unanswered? Take out the prayers that don’t have enough faith (how one knows when there is adequate faith is unanswerable, but according to Jesus a mustard seed’s worth does the job), take out the prayers that are merely self-serving, take out the prayers of people who are in willful rebellion, or who are among the boastful arrogant, and you still do not have sufficient reason to explain the untold number of ‘good’ prayers that go completely ignored.

    Taken another way, the Bible commands us to not pass by or ignore the hurting or the oppressed or the destitute. Those who do this get separated with the goats at judgment time. But isn’t this exactly what God does? Doesn’t he ignore the pleas and cries of the hurting, the downtrodden, and the broken? How many millions of believers cry out in prayer for family, friends, or even their own broken condition, only to receive utter silence in return? This seems like a double standard on a galactic level. “Do as I say, not as I do.”

    Can you imagine a good parent responding to their own children in this way? Imagine the girl who is mercilessly bullied at school. She pleads with her parents over and over to intervene. Tells them how her days are filled with constant taunting and torment. Tells them she is going to take her life if it doesn’t stop. She is being driven to the edge of hopelessness and utter despair. She pleads for months. Now imagine her parents hearing all this and offering absolutely no response. Yet her parents still demand that the household rules and chores be diligently adhered to, homework must be completed and turned in on time, she must maintain a demeanor of joy and self-control and peace and thankfulness, and she must consistently demonstrate her love for them. Yet whenever she pleads for help, the parents fall strangely mute. They offer no sense they are even listening. They offer no help. They don’t help. Even when in their power to intervene, they do absolutely nothing. Those of us who are parents would find this scenario unimaginable.

    To try and explain this as a dysfunctional social exchange is insulting and in some ways, a very predictable Christian culture response.

    I have four possible answers as to why there is unanswered prayer (or for other things about Christianity that do not work): 1) The writers of the Bible unintentionally got some things very wrong about God, therefore we should not take it literally, 2) The Bible is a man-made literary work whose only value is to give a deeper glimpse into the workings of the human animal, 3) Similar to No. 1, the Bible is struggling to tell a larger, but incomplete thing about God that we do not yet fully understand, therefore it is a mistake to take it literally, or 4) The Bible is the inerrant, perfect, inspired Word of God, so, though we try mightily to do what it says and to believe what it says, we must still be doing something wrong.

    That’s my two cents. Thanks for your time.

  • equanimous_one

    Christian cosmology does not fit in any way with my direct perception of this current moment of now.


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X