Lesbians, Satan, Hitler: Debi Pearl Responds To Criticism

I don’t know how I missed this short post on the No Greater Joy website a year ago, but I did. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised I missed it because I don’t read everything posted on the site, and for some reason Why Not To Train A Child only just picked it up today. Anyway, here you go:

A Call To Stand

By Debi Pearl

Hitler’s propagandists used one of Satan’s choice tools to pull off the biggest crime toward mankind in the history of the world. They used a lie. They taught that if you tell a lie and keep repeating it enough, people will eventually come to believe it. And when they believe—truly believe—it will turn them into activists who will bring it to pass.

It only takes one liar to start the evil stampede. Our first liar was a young lesbian newspaper reporter from the East Coast. She showed up at church one Sunday morning. Our grown children, as well as a few of their friends, took her out to eat afterward and freely answered every question, laughing at her ridiculous suppositions. It turns out it wasn’t funny.

We read what she wrote on the Web. We were amazed that she would so blatantly lie, attributing to us the evil done by a child murderer that we had never met and who had NEVER read anything we wrote. But the news never carried that piece of evidence, and our not having to take the stand in court only made the voice of lies cry louder. Years passed and during that time over 1500 children a year died at the hands of their drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling parents, yet no one mentioned our name. We never heard from the lesbian reporter again but occasionally read her lies on the lesbian homeschool blog sites. Eventually false “news” begets more of the same. Repeat a lie often enough and someone is bound to pick it up.

Some homeschooling lady on the West Coast was arrested for killing her adopted child. It was widely reported that someone thought that lady might have one of our books. It turns out, according to the police report, that the guilty lady didn’t actually have our book, but who needs truth to make sensational news? About that time, the TV reporters drove from New York to my garden to have a chat. After they saw Mike coming on his tractor, they informed me they were TV reporters making a video clip for a homosexual TV personality. Mike sat on the tractor and answered their questions, which, when aired, were mysteriously changed in the footage. Hitler’s propaganda machine suddenly found new life. From the lies of one young lesbian years earlier came this BIG lie. Repeat a lie often enough and even Christians will come to believe it and militantly take up the offense.

I would estimate that as many as 9 out of every 10 homeschooling families now believes that lie. Yesterday a doctor’s wife was visiting, and she said that fellow Christians angrily approached her for being friends of the Pearls. “That’s just it,” she tells them, “I know them, I know their kids and grandkids, I know thousands of people who have used their literature to help their children . . . including you, and you are telling ME what you heard Anderson Cooper say is the truth? I think you’re missing something here!”

Six million Jewish people lost their lives to Hitler’s great lies. Good people helped make it happen because they truly believed the lie. Today homeschoolers are giving away their rights as parents because they have believed a lie. Even misguided homeschool leaders are propagating lies in their writings. Satan’s end is to steal the hearts of your children, and his lies are working.

Will you seek truth and STAND? Will you encourage others to wake up before their parental rights are stripped from them by the power of bogus news reports? First one person tells a lie, then a few repeat it, and when lies are repeated often enough and well enough, they become as truth and laws are passed based on these lies. In the end, Satan, the father of all lies, will have your children. BUT we can drown the voices of lies if we speak and write the truth well enough and often enough. Will you STAND?

Debi appears to conflate the deaths of Lydia Schatz and Hanna Williams here. Both were adopted, both were homeschooled, both were on the West Coast, and both died at the hands of parents who owned, read, followed, and shared Michael and Debi Pearl’s book, To Train Up A Child. The CNN interview with Anderson Cooper in the summer of 2011 happened shortly before Hanna Williams’ death came to light, and focused on the death of Lydia Schatz, but the following winter Michael Pearl went on Anderson Cooper’s show and Hanna Williams’ death was also discussed. Debi’s response, above, was posted the following summer.

I’m trying to figure out just what is the most outrageous part of Debi’s response. Perhaps it is the bit where she lies about whether or not Carri Williams (or is she talking about Elizabeth Schatz?) had read To Train Up A Child (we know conclusively that both Carri Williams and Elizabeth Schatz both read it and consciously put it into practice.Perhaps it is the bit where she uses the fact that the reporter (who it was I do not know) and TV personality were gay and lesbian to discredit them. Perhaps it is the bit where she calls those who oppose her Nazis and likens herself to a Jewish Holocaust victim. Perhaps it is the bit where she suggests that criticism of her parenting methods will naturally result in the utter destruction of parental rights. Perhaps it is the bit where she tells readers that if the fact that children have died as a result of her teachings gets around and is believed “Satan, the father of all lies, will have your children.”

To be honest, I’m simply glad to know that the Pearls are finally facing criticism from within the Christian homeschooling world. I would very much like to believe that 9 out of 10 homeschooling families believe that the Pearls’ methods are dangerous. Given that these deaths have not shaken my own homeschooling parents’ faith in the Pearls’ methods, though, I suspect that is a bit of an exaggeration. What I would believe, though, is that 9 out of 10 Christian homeschooling families have at the very least heard rumors of the two girls’ deaths, and that’s at least something.  

I mean, at the very least, the Pearls have stopped laughing.

———

Addendum: After writing this post, I came upon the following review on Amazon:

I first read Michael Pearl’s book To Train Up A Child back in 1999. As a new wife and mom, I was very eager to do things right. We attended their child training seminar in the late 90s, I read their marriage/parenting books, watched their videos and read their newsletter for 10 years.

We had a collection of 1/4″ plastic plumbing supply lines in varying sizes-shorter ones for the glove box of each vehicle, and longer ones for each room in the house. The supply lines served as our “rod of discipline,” as Michael Pearl suggests. We were frequently complimented on our well-behaved children (behavior modification does work) and I was a big fan of No Greater Joy…until the spring of 2010 when I learned about Lydia Schatz. I knew the Pearls did not advocate child abuse, and in fact speak against it, so I began looking into this issue on the internet.

The Pearls do recommend using plastic plumbing supply line as a spanking instrument, exactly the same instrument used to spank Lydia to death. And the district attorney in the case stated that there is a direct connection between Michael Pearl’s book and Lydia’s death. Yes, the Schatzes are certainly responsible for their own actions. But it is possible that someone with no discernment could overdo the Pearls’ advice to spank until the child is broken. Michael Pearl himself warns that the battle of wills can sometimes take awhile. But what if the child never gives that submissive whimper? When exactly are you supposed to stop before it crosses the line into abuse? TTUAC never clarifies this. For example (this is from the version of TTUAC that was found in the Schatz home)

“If he continues to show defiance by jerking around and defending himself, or by expressing anger, wait a moment, lecture again, and again spank him until it’s obvious he’s totally broken.”(TTUAC, p59)

“Switch him 8-10 times on his bare legs or bottom. While waiting for the pain to subside, speak calm words of rebuke. If his crying turns to a true, wounded, submissive whimper, you have conquered; he has submitted his will. If his crying is still defiant, protesting, and other than a response to pain, spank him again. If this is the first time he’s come up against someone tougher than he is, it may take awhile…if you stop before he is voluntarily submissive, you have confirmed to him the value and effectiveness of a screaming protest!” (TTUAC p80)

“If you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he has surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring, and are unmoved by his wailing. Defeat him totally…A general rule is to continue the disciplinary action until the child has surrendered.” (TTUAC p46)

Lydia Schatz died from rhabdomyolysis, damage to the muscle tissue usually caused by trauma such as a car accident. She was, quite literally, spanked to death. According to the Contra Costa Times the Schatz’ attorney, Michael Harvey, said in regard to rhabdomyolysis, “most know it’s inappropriate to shake a baby, but few had heard of the medical condition that could be caused by Schatzes’ disciplinary method.”

Were we abusive during our “Pearl years”? No. But my heart aches to remember how I used to parent my children, thinking I had their best interests at heart. Anything less than first time obedience was disciplined for as disobedience (I’m glad God doesn’t treat me this way!) We expected behavior out of our children that, realistically, they were too immature to give. We used the rod as our first (and pretty much only) form of discipline. I rarely gave my babies pacifiers because Michael Pearl teaches that this is rewarding self-indulgence and leads to intemperance/overeating later in life. I stuffed down my motherly instincts when it came to training and discipline-I didn’t want to be that weak, emotional mother that Michael Pearl describes as loving herself more than her children. For the sake of my children’s souls I had to be tough and unrelenting, “a cold rock of justice,” to put it in Michael Pearl’s words.

In His mercy, God has drastically changed my perspective on parenting. Studying how God parents His children has been key for me. It was also incredible helpful to read Grace-Based Parenting. Also, I’ve written about the Pearls on my blog,(…)createdtobehis.com

Please avoid the heartache I’ve been through and stay far, far away from any and all books and materials put out by Michael and Debi Pearl and their ministry, No Greater Joy!

I think this review is evidence that Debi Pearl is worried with good reason.

About Libby Anne

Libby Anne grew up in a large evangelical homeschool family highly involved in the Christian Right. College turned her world upside down, and she is today an atheist, a feminist, and a progressive. She blogs about leaving religion, her experience with the Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements, the detrimental effects of the "purity culture," the contradictions of conservative politics, and the importance of feminism.

  • Hilary

    Last week, when Libby was posting about the 12 tribes in Germany, I noticed something amazing: in 3 posts about child abuse and parental control in Germany, nobody, not once, Godwined the discussion thread by throwing around accusations and comparisons to Nazis. This was about child abuse in Germany, for once it would have actually been appropriate! I want to nominate each and every one of you guys for an Internet award.

    It is beyond fascinating how Hitler and Nazis are the ultimate shorthand for the perfect stereotype of evil, absolute, pure, inhuman, othered evil. Even though I actually know a few holocaust survivors it’s like there is almost no connection between the actual people and the shorthand meme of 6 million. I have no reaction to her use of those meme’s because they’ve become such talking point short hand cliches it doesn’t register as any connection to reality.

    It’s like she’s reaching for the ultimate thought stopper, you don’t want to be compared to a Nazi, do you? Rather then even try a token shred of factual defense against such accusations.

    It is hopeful that even the Pearls target audience is turning away from them. But the story from Germany is even more hopeful. I think it was NeaDod who posted a link to how pathologically abusive German baby and child rearing practices were, 3-4 generations ago in the early 1900′s. That there are legitament

    • Hilary

      iPad is acting up, having a hard time editing. Continued . . .

      That there are legitimate reasons to believe that such massive pathological abuse on a national level played a large part in the psychology of how Nazism had taken hold of German people. Yet now physical discipline and spanking are outlawed in Germany. The people who raided the12 Tribes compound were the grandchildren and great grandchildren of actual, historical Nazis, not Internet meme Nazis. They would have known the stories of their grand parents and great grand parents, and as an entire people have tried to move away from that. That is an amazing example of human goodness. If the grandchildren of Nazis can stand up against the abuse that warped the souls of their grandparents, maybe there can be some hope for people standing up to the Pearls in enough numbers to make a difference as well.

      • guest

        This is fantastic and thought provoking–thanks for sharing. I have one friend whose father was a Nazi (though he doesn’t talk about it at all, not even with his closest family), and I’m descended from East European Jews (though I didn’t personally know any of my relatives who were killed).

      • Hilary

        Russian/Ukraine Jewish on my dad’s side, German Catholic on my mom’s, raised Jewish, and in the temple choir.

      • guest

        :) Jews from Belorus on my mom’s side, Irish Catholic on my dad’s, raised Catholic and still identify as ‘cultural Catholic’, but my Jewish friends and family claim me as Jewish by maternal bloodline.

      • attackfish

        My step grandfather’s father was a Nazi. My step grandfather married my ethnically Ashkenazi Jewish Atheist grandmother, and was a wonderful human being and grandfather to little Jewish me.

      • Verne Riga

        Debi invocing the Nazis really annoyed me, too. I’m always sceptical about Nazi comparisons and Debi’s is just plain horrible. One problem about German society was that they were trained to be obedient towards authority. (check out ‘The Captain of Köpenick’ for a fun example). After the war, German society realized that for a stable democracy you need ‘mündige Bürger’, which means citizens who are responsible, independent, and well informed (especially about politics). The ban of corporal punishment and the rise of anti-authoritarian parenting were direct results of german national history. Also, the german ban on homeschooling exists partly because the state wants to prevent the indoctrination of children by forcing them to integrate into society and learn about our values. So a lot of what Debi is advocating is considered to be a problem by most post-war Germans. Opponents aren’t automatically Nazis just because they publicly disagree with you. Using the real horrors of the Hitler regime to smear people you don’t like is extremely disrespectful towards anyone who suffered during that time.

    • http://www.ericpazdziora.com/ Eric

      Of course, if we were interested in pushing our luck on the Godwin’s Law bit, there’s a not irrelevant observation to be made that “Fascism” is derived from the Latin word fasces, which means “rod as a symbol of authority.” Hmmm….

      • minuteye

        Yes, but they used lead pipes to carry water. So a piece of Latin “plumbing line” would be quite a different story.
        /attempt to be funny

  • Lyric

    Is anyone else weirdly reminded of Amy’s Baking Company? I mean, I know this is a tragedy and that’s a farce, but something about the tone seems similar to me.

    • Hilary

      No, what’s Amy’s Baking Company?

      • Lyric

        There’s this show, Kitchen Nightmares, which basically involves this chef coming in and reforming a restaurant with culinary genius and swearing. And they had this one couple on, who ran a place called Amy’s Baking Company and were just . . . utterly batshit. I mean, they were perfectly open about stealing the wait staff’s tips and justified it by saying that they were all incompetent. And Amy seemed to think her cats were children. And they were absolutely convinced of their own rightness, and that every criticism they ever got was the fault of evil reviewers on the internet—although admittedly, some of that was probably because Amy’s husband never passed along any criticism because it might upset her.

        And then they showed their ass all over the internet. I think the resemblance I’m seeing is that their “defense,” such as it was, made them look twice as batshit as the original episode, which was a fairly high bar. To me, this defense does sort of the same thing.

      • Trollface McGee

        Well.. as a proud cat-momma, I can’t fault her for the cats, though I do worry about them.. do they have to eat her food? Will she throw a fit if they send it back? Poor cats.

      • Gail

        If I recall correctly, they also kept bringing up their Christianity in their defense during the online aftermath of the show, indicating that they couldn’t possibly be as evil and crazy as they come off because they are good Christian people.

      • Jayn

        Every time that defense gets used somewhere I think of a scene from….Last of the Mohicans?…where they take a kid to church and this guy is outside trying to sell the boy a young animal, going on at length about how he can be trusted because he’s Christian.

        The animal doesn’t make it home.

      • Lyric

        It’s The Education of Little Tree. A summer school class I taught was very bothered with that message, since most of them were fundamentalist Christians themselves. I had to break it down for them: are you really going to trust someone just because he says he’s a Christian? Not because he goes to your church, not because you know he’s an upstanding member of the community—but because he uses the word? People lie.

      • Alix

        The scary thing is that yes, these people will trust a Christian just because e says e’s Christian. It’s something hammered home in a lot of Christian communities, and not even just in explicitly fundie ones. This is, among other things, part of the theory behind putting the little fish or other Christian indicators next to your business name in a phone book – it shows you’re Christian, and can therefore supposedly be trusted to be a better business than a non-Christian one.

        My mom got scammed out of her home, leaving her credit in utter shambles, by a “Christian” help-for-floundering-homeowners “business.” Throughout the whole thing, many of us kept pointing out warning signs and asking skeptical questions, and her response was that she’d talked with the scammer a lot and the woman was very Christian and seemed trustworthy.

        …FWIW, this doesn’t happen only in Christian groups. I know a lot of fellow pagans who cannot wrap their heads around the idea that fellow pagans might exploit them or not be trustworthy. There’s a reason the trustworthy pagans tend to push cult awareness as one of the first things all pagans need to be aware of – and it’s not because pagans are immune to being taken advantage of.

      • The_L1985

        This is why I specifically avoid businesses with any form of religious symbol in their logo or advertizing. I’m not buying an ichthus, a Bible verse, or a star of David. I’m buying a service that has nothing to do with religion at all. If proselytizing appears to be more important to you than your actual job, then you’ve lost my custom.

      • Alix

        Same. The only exception, obviously, is if I’m looking for something specifically religious, or with a religious component.

        Even then, though, the best places tend not to feel the need to brag. It’s like – if your only selling point is how religious your business is, it can’t be a very good business, can it?

      • The_L1985

        I figured that shit out as a very young child. The Berenstein Bears even had a whole special on how bad people say the same things as nice people sometimes to get you to trust them. (It was one of those “Stranger Danger” episodes of the cartoon.)

      • Gail

        I had time to dig for this, so if you’d like to read a fraction of the ABC meltdown, here you go. It does indeed involve a fair amount of “I’m God’s child” and “God is on our side” references. And if you watch the video, I feel I should warn you that you may come out thinking what a level-headed, calm, reasonable guy Gordon Ramsay is.

        http://cheezburger.com/76549

      • Jayn

        The video at the site says it doesn’t exist. It is up on the Fox website though.

        http://www.fox.com/kitchennightmares/full-episodes/29299267648/amy-s-baking-company

      • Jayn

        This line got me laughing so hard I nearly choked.

        “I don’t allow people that have an attitude in my restaurant.”

        So you plan to kick yourself out?

      • Richter_DL

        For those who are not in the US, a federal territory or on a military base: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjgHEctcy0

        Yeah, Amy really believes god wants her to be a chef. And … they take the waitresses service tips? Aren’t waiters in america taxed effectively to near zero income? What the hell?

      • Lyric

        Yes. Yes, they are. To be fair, what these people were doing is utterly illegal, and I’ve heard that they’re being investigated for it.

      • Richter_DL

        Indeed it is. Here too. Also, though, Rampsay isn’t really helping, but seems to be fanning the flames. Interesting to see the same format play out in another culture.

      • LadyCricket

        What do you imagine Gordon Ramsay would say about that cream-of-chicken crockpot abomination from CTBHHM’s cooking chapter? :)

      • Hilary

        LOL!

      • Hilary

        Or the judges on Chopped?

    • Trollface McGee

      Now that you mention it, you’re right and I hope it continues – the epic meltdown that was ABC was absolutely hilarious and the fact that they closed down and are being investigated for some of their shadier dealings made it that much better. And no one deserves to be kicked off their high-horse (preferably by a mob of angry lesbian homeschooling Hitler impersonators) than the Pearls.

  • http://whynottrainachild.com/ Hermana Linda
    • http://patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism Libby Anne

      Well wherever you found it, I’m glad you did! I’m surprised I hadn’t run across it sooner!

  • http://www.wideopenground.com/ Lana

    wait? What lesbian homeschool blog sites?

    • http://patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism Libby Anne

      I was wondering that myself!

      • Mira

        Seems like she’s jealous/bitter. Maybe she’s hiding some deep down homosexual tendencies that she’s taught herself are disgusting.
        Stranger things have happened…

      • phantomreader42

        Well, considering how heavily absolute submission to men (up to and including literal worship) is emphasized in the way she’s been trained, the only way she imagines she could ever have a sexual partner treat her as an equal or even a human being would be if said sexual partner were also a woman.

    • Alix

      Everyone who disagrees with Debi is a lesbian, didn’t you know that? Even if they’re men.

      They all live in duplexes, too, while their husbands run off with the babysitter.

    • Hilary

      Well, if I ever have to homeschool and end up bloging about it . . . .then you’ll have Jewish lesbian homeschool blog site.

      • Hilary

        Whoa! Thanks for the support but that is a *long* way off, if ever. I still have to marry Penny, get my basement cleaned up so a social worker coming over for the homestudy doesn’t think she just walked into Shelob’s lair, or Aragog’s, then actually y’know adopt a real baby. But in the mean time, Penny and I decided to start a Torah study blog to go with our temples Torah study hour, because we’ve enjoyed studying the Torah so much with the ~30 people who regularly show up there. So for the next year I’m bloging my way through the 5 books of Moses with Penny. I know most people at LJF would run screaming in the other direction, but I enjoy bible study and I’m looking forward to this.

      • The_L1985

        It sounds like fun to me, but I’m a mythology nerd and always have been. (Fun fact: I got a copy of Bulfinch’s Mythology at the age of 7. By the time I was 9, I’d read it enough to wear the cover off.)

      • Alix

        Mythology nerds unite! I read just about nothing but Nancy Drew books, dinosaur books, and any book on mythology I could get my hands on all throughout lower elementary school. (By upper elementary, I’d branched out to Star Trek novels. :P)

        I can’t honestly say what my first mythology book was, but one I cherished greatly was the battered copy of Edith Hamilton’s Mythology that Mom passed down to me.

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        Heh I got Mythology for a college class and have loved it and read it and reread it since. I’ve always liked fantasy, though straight-up mythology I’ve read less of. A lot of my knowledge of both Greek and Norse pantheons is filtered through fantasy retellings of the tales, I must admit.

        My elementary school reading was a lot of Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys, then Andre Norton and Anne McCaffrey and Katherine Kurtz and Isaac Asimov (Foundation yeah!) and Mercedes Lackey. I, uh … I read a lot in elementary and middle school. I remember in 6th grade we had to fill in this reading sheet- 30 minutes a day for 5 days a week, or 2.5 hours over a week (it could be in different blocks, didn’t have to be 30 minutes at a time). The first week I handed in a sheet with ~30 hours of reading on it- 9 hours on Saturday, 11 hours on Sunday, and 1-2 hours every other night. My mom got called for that one, and did confirm it!

      • Alix

        I also read a lot of fantasy. I <3 fantasy.

        I remember in 7th grade us all having to pledge to read a certain number of books through the year. I said I'd read a book every day. The teacher tried to talk me out of it.

        I did it. Some days, I did better.

        I wish I still had the time to do that much reading.

      • Hilary

        I <3 fantasy 2

      • Hilary

        I’ll see you Anne McCaffrey, K. Kurtz in grade school, Lackey not until about 3 years ago. And the Prydain books, DragonLance, Forgotten Realms (Mostly Drizzt, dear God I had a fanfic crush on him for years) Anybody else read Barbara Hambly’s fantasy from the 80′s and 90′s?

      • Hilary

        OK, guest, whoever you are who just upvoted me, have you read any of the books I mentioned?

      • Shayna

        I remember reading every Nancy Drew & mythology book in the local library too. I actually jumped to horror before sci-fi & fantasy though (thank you cousin, for my first Stephen King book at age 10).

        David Eddings, Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind, Robert Jordan, Barbara Hambly, Anne McCaffrey, Stephen King, Dean Koontz.

        I read all the Prydain books (and went by Taran for many a childhood make believe session). I was big on DragonLance & Forgotten Realms, I actually liked Ender’s Game a lot as a kid, I am sad to see what Orson Scott Card is up to these days.

        I would read pretty much anything I could get my hands on. I remember making little paper book covers for my mom’s romance novels in middle school when I had nothing else to read :-p My favorite jacket was denim and kind of unfinished on the inside, so it had big ‘pockets’ that were big enough to put books in. I usually carried several because some teachers liked to take them away :(

      • Alix

        Prydain, some Koontz. The Dark Is Rising sequence by Susan Cooper. Tamora Pierce’s stuff, which remains a perennial favorite. (The idea that as an adult I should suddenly be above YA novels … galls me.) Dinotopia. Miscellaneous other things. And I am seriously not joking when I say I read every Star Trek novel in the public library system. (I tend to focus on one thing to the exclusion of all else for a while.) Bernard Evslin’s Monsters of Mythology series, which are … really rather weird books. L’Engle, Chronicles of Narnia, and Lewis’ weird Space Trilogy too – I entirely missed the religious context of all of them. By late elementary, I was also getting into the weird alternate-history stuff, and reading things like Zecharia Sitchin’s books and laughing at them.

        I didn’t get into King until college, and his work’s rather hit or miss for me. Hambly’s been recommended to me a lot, and I actually own one of her books, I just haven’t read it yet.

      • The_L1985

        OMG, someone else who liked the Space trilogy. :3 The religious part is weird, but the sci-fi aspect is so much fun.

        I read through the entire kids’ section at such an early age I pretty much had to branch out. It still took me longer to get into the awesome that is McCaffrey, Lackey, Norton, and Asimov, though, mainly because, like Alice, I was a bit put off by books with no pictures in them. I read an adult-level history book avidly, though, because of all the photos of statues and Neandertal bones and religious paintings.

      • Alix

        I got really into history not just through the stories Dad and Grandpa (both avid historians) told, but through that same search for books with good pictures. (Science, too, actually.) And actually it was my search for information on mythology that led me to history books – religion is a topic of interest to historians, after all, and the history books did have the best pictures. (Especially anything put out by National Geographic; I had this one big history book on ancient Greece they’d put out, and I loved it.)

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        I remember reading Prydain, but not DragonLance or Forgotten Realms (I am a bad, bad D&D nerdling in some ways lol). I’ve not read Barbara Hambly, I don’t think.

      • Hilary
      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        Oh yes. And it’s gloriously on Youtube, along with Seanan McGuire’s music (who also writes under the name Mira Grant).

      • Alix

        McGuire’s zombie novels are the only ones I’ve yet to find readable. And that grossly understates how enjoyable they are – they’re very good books.

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        They are. I did enjoy World War Z quite a bit as well, but those and the Feed series are the only zombie books I’ve managed to like.

      • Alix

        I need to give WWZ a try; a number of folks keep telling me it’s good.

      • Shayna

        The Newsflesh trilogy was awesome, WWZ was good (I liked the world wide coverage & multiple viewpoints).

      • Jennifer Starr

        Oh I loved that book :)

      • Hilary

        That was me with the Hobbit and LOTR at the same respective ages, 7 & 9. That’s what I like about how I’ve learned to approach Torah study, it’s like the ultimate mythology, ancient history, and fanfiction geekout nerdfest. I’ve never been bound by a literal inerrant reading of it, and the technical details are fascinating. Also as a Jew, this is the foundation of my religion and it’s beyond fascinating seeing how the concepts expressed in the Torah are still in play 3,000 years later. From the verses about the festival of Booths in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, I’ve got a sukkah up in my back yard right now. Tracing how these concepts have changed, been edited, lived with, and transmuted through the centuries of history, it’s always something new to learn.
        Off topic from this thread, but can I give you an internet hug, while I look for my time-turner to go back and give you a few hugs years ago?

      • Alix

        …Stupid question, probably, and if you’re not sharing it for a reason obviously ignore this, but – where’s your blog? If your Torah study’s public I’d love to read it.

      • Hilary

        I haven’t started it yet – after the wedding. I want to start right after Simchat Torah – that’s the last holiday of the fall season, celebrating finishing the reading cycle and starting over again. Hey, there’s dancing and klezmer music involved, it’s fun. I’m not sure how public to make this, to be honest. This is meant to be a continuation of a live, face to face study group so we can keep talking over the week. There is always more to say, a new idea on the drive home. I don’t know how well it will actually work, it might be great, it might whimper into nothing. But if it does work out well . . . I don’t know. We’ll see. There are people I know online I’d love to share this with, perhaps other people at the regular TS have on line friends or non-Jewish friends they’d like to share it with. I’ve never done anything like this before, tbh.

  • Leigha7

    I will say one positive thing about the Pearl’s suggested methods–at least they acknowledge that kids who are spanked will cry from the pain, and say that this is not a reason to continue spanking them (“If his crying is still defiant, protesting, and other than a response to pain, spank him again”). Pretty much everything else about it is stomach turning, and it’d be way too easy to misinterpret (perhaps deliberately) pain-induced crying as defiant crying, but as someone who got punished for crying in pain, I can appreciate that tiny acknowledgment.

    But the use of the word “broken” makes me feel ill. I don’t know how any decent human being could advocate breaking a child, your own or otherwise.

    • Alix

      These people (authoritarian fundies, not just the Pearls) honest to god consider the human will the instrument of Satan. That’s why some of the worst things to be in this subculture, from their point of view, are selfish, stubborn, willful, or ambitious. That goes doubly if you’re a person of subordinate rank (a woman, a child, a man of lesser status).

      How they expect their sons to transition to being properly willful when they become men, I have no idea. Because that’s what they’re told will happen naturally, I guess.

      • Trollface McGee

        That’s horrific. Breaking one’s will is typically something one expects to see in a report of a psychologist or police officer as a documentation of someone who’s been a victim of abuse, not as something that someone actively works to achieve.

    • The_L1985

      Indeed. Doesn’t the word “broken” imply something doesn’t work as originally intended? Why on earth would you want to damage a human being in this way, unless you were badly brainwashed? It’s just so, so sad.

      • NeaDods

        Which is one of the reasons why I believe Michael when he says he was raised this way – he shows the damage from it in a textbook manner.

  • Alix

    I’m glad she’s feeling the heat. I hope the heat turns up, that people stop buying their books, stop using their methods, start calling them out to their faces on their promotion of abuse everywhere they go, and that they find themselves pariahs. I hope they get sued for promoting an abusive system that led directly to the deaths of several children. I hope they get investigated for their connection to those deaths, and scared out of their minds even if they never receive jail time.

    I’m rather sickened that people are pulling the “but they’re so nice!” card, if we can trust Debi’s report here. I mean, I get why people do it. Authoritarians can seem very nice, or even be very nice, if you’re not on the receiving end of their toxicity.

    Debi, dear, promoting child abuse is not nice. If your cosmology is accurate and your God exists, I think you’ll be in for a rude wake-up call on Judgment Day.

    • TLC

      Yeah, “nice” indeed. Some of the reasons it took so long to catch Ted Bundy are that he was handsome, charming, extremely intelligent (went to law school), and such a nice guy. He was a volunteer for a domestic abuse hotline, and was an employee for the Republican Party. No one could imagine that this “nice guy” could do such horrid things. BTW, these qualities were very helpful in making him a prolific serial killer, because he seemed to be so trustworthy, and many women trusted him.

      • Gillianren

        I’ve been saying for years that, if it weren’t for the crazy murderer bit, he might well have ended up as governor of Washington. And remember, his partner on that suicide hotline (not domestic abuse) was none other than Anne Rule, true-crime writer. One night, as they were manning the phones, she told him about a contract she’d just gotten to write an article once they found the “Ted” killer.

      • TLC

        Yes, indeed! She wrote a book about it. It took her years to accept what he had done, mainly because he’d been so kind to her and her kids. He always volunteered to walk her to her car so she’d be safe!

  • Angela

    Not too long ago I found this rebuttal on youtube where the Pearls and their adult children defend their techniques. It’s really obvious that they’re concerned sales have dropped and are trying to win back customers. The thing that surprised me somewhat was that relatively little of the conversation focused on spanking and instead emphasized the importance of building a relationship with your children. Much of it I actually agreed with and I had to wonder, “Then why don’t you say this in your book?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAEa2ORFbg

  • Guest
    • Jayn

      Rather OT, but the look on Buzz’s face made me think of Family Guy.

      “Look, those two girls are practicing kissing.”
      “I don’t think they’re practicing.”
      “Oh. OH. OH! …oh.”

  • NeaDods

    I’m going to repeat the comment I put on No Longer Quivering about this:

    *facepalm* For what is meant to be words of ringing defense, this comes across as merely defensive word salad.

    First of all, I want a dime for every time Debi uses the word “lesbian.” It has nothing to do with the truth or lies of the article, it’s just her smearing the reporter, and literally doing so every time she mentions the reporter and anything she touches. By the time she reached “lesbian reporter… lesbian homeschool blog sites” Debi frankly sounded just like a little child on the playground. She might as well have been saying “You’re a poopiehead person with a poopiehead clothing and you write poopiehead stuff!” for all the maturity and logic she displays. (I note that “homosexual TV personality” comes later; I’m actually a little surprised that she then doesn’t go on to talk about his homosexual show on his homosexual network.)

    Second: “laughing at her ridiculous suppositions.” So… your kids and their friends take this woman out to dinner, laugh in her face and are shocked! SHOCKED I SAY! to discover that she doesn’t think much of you? How dare she not gracefully submit to your ridiculing her! (Hint, honey: if you make it not be funny for the people you’re talking to, it really shoudn’t be a shock that they make damn sure “it wasn’t funny” for you.)

    Third: “a child murderer that we had never met and who had NEVER read anything we wrote” Citation for that last statement, please.

    Fourth: “Years passed and during that time over 1500 children a year died at the hands of their drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling parents” Wow. This needs a lot of unpacking. What is your citation for the number of child abuse deaths? What, aside from the same sort of immature mud-slinging, is behind the phrase “drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling”? Only non-homeschoolers abuse their kids to death? Hardly a defensible assertion in an article defending against being implicated in homeschooling abuse murders! Or that only non-homeschooling parents take drugs? Tell that to Andrea Yeats! (Remember, Rusty’s defense about leaving his kids with Andrea was that it was the DOCTOR’S fault for not drugging her more thorougly so that she couldn’t hurt the kids.)

    Fifth: after all the shouts of “lesbian!” and “lie!” bringing in Hitler is less of a direct comparison than simply an escalation of the offensive terminology. Lesbian! Hitler! Satan! Lie! Drugged! Homosexual! All of them used more or less interchangeably, and less because Hitler, satan, or drugs tie into any kind of coherent argument, but because it’s just that much more offensive and grown up than yelling “poopiehead!” at the people you’re trying to annoy.

    Sixth: “Good people helped make it happen because they truly believed the lie” No. No, do not even go there. Good people may have colluded with the Nazis because they were afraid or they were blackmailed or they were trapped, but No. Not because they “believed” the lies. Debi has basically just asserted that it’s “okay” to round up, abuse, dehumanize, and exterminate people IF YOU DO IT FOR THE RIGHT REASON. That it may have been Hitler’s persuasion that it was right to marginalize and murder Jews, but the marginalization and the murder parts are totes okay!

    Okay, Debi never actually calls for bloodshed. (Beatings, but not bloodshed.) But marginalization? Look at how she herself lesbian argues lesbian why lesbian her opponents lesbian are lesbian wrong because lesbian reasons.

    • Sally

      All well-said, but I especially agree with the part about Debi’s claim that good people did a bad thing because they believed a lie. No claim could justify what was done to the Jews and the others killed. You could believe every lie told by the Nazis and still have absolutely no justification whatsoever for genocide. That Debi thinks good people committed genocide *because of* lies and equates this with people rejecting the Pearls’ teachings is abhorrent if taken seriously. But I agree with you, it’s really just her way of saying “poopiehead,” like a 1st grader on the playground not getting her way. Looks like all of Debi’s childhood discipline and the training of her own children didn’t teach her not to have irrational adult temper tantrums.

    • ZeldasCrown

      We don’t even know if the first female report was lesbian or not (with actually knowing who she was, there’s no way to tell). I can’t imagine that the reporter’s sexual orientation came up with her meeting with the Pearls (why would it-they were talking about the Pearls’ book, not the reporter’s life). So unless the reporter openly states her orientation on her website/journal/etc, how would Debi even know? Seems like lesbian is just her way of trying to slur any woman who she doesn’t like, or who doesn’t behave in the way she thinks they should.

      • phantomreader42

        We can’t actually be sure the alleged “lesbian reporter” actually exists outside of Debi’s fantasies. She’s been known to lie and make shit up before.

      • Sally

        True, although posting this on her blog means her children would likely read it. I doubt she lies about stuff that could be so easily recognized by her own family. After all, what would their son Nathan think, who is the subject of a bizarre teaching-your-children-not-to-be-liars-even-when-you-can’t-catch-them-in-a-lie story told several times on their blog. I realize the whole thing could all be faked, but I doubt that. But the point that once someone lies, you never know when to trust them is a good one, which has certainly made us question any of Debi’s stories.

      • ZeldasCrown

        All very true. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this bunch, so the lesson gotten could be “lying is wrong except when it’s for our cause, in which case it’s not really lying.” Add in all the contradictory advice from their various books, and I, for one, have no idea how far they actually follow their advice (or what critical caveats they never mention and just assume everyone knows-if they had had children like the ones who were killed following their methods, would they have continued to the same lengths? The book gives no criteria for stopping, and even seems to say/imply that there is no reason to stop ever). Anything out of their mouths (or fingers I guess for written things?) is very suspect at this point.

      • Sally

        I’m very with ya on the whole lying to yourself, thinking in boxes to avoid the truth, and leaving out important details to paint a certain picture! It’s a mess, isn’t it?!

      • Alix

        It occurred to me there might be another reason behind their hardline stance in the books as opposed to their apparently less-hardline stance in reality:

        This is a subculture that does not appreciate anything that smacks of being wishy-washy. Especially with the particular set-up they use in the book, about this being a battle between parents and child for the soul of the child, they can’t suggest one back down without undermining their own idea.

        That said, it’s impossible to know whether or not they honestly believed common-sense would come into play and stop parents from going too far, or whether they’re of that particularly odious brand of fundies that actually thinks disobedient kids ought to be murdered but knows it’s impolitic to say that.

      • Jolie

        What story was that?

      • Richter_DL

        Maybe she just was single. People like Debi like to see things that aren’t even there. Not that she can’t have been a Lesbian or that would be bad, but … maybe Debi is just jumping to conclusions on this woman.

        Anybody have any idea who that reporter was, or where her “lesbian homeschool blog” could be found?

      • NeaDods

        Yeah, “lesbian” does t mean anything other than “Debi doesn’t like her” in this context.

  • http://www.ericpazdziora.com/ Eric

    I’m assuming Anderson Cooper is the “homosexual TV personality,” although that’s a very telling way to describe him rather than, say, “multiple Emmy award-winning news reporter.” What has his sexuality got to do with anything? It’s the “poisoning the well” fallacy. For that matter, “TV personality” would suggest someone more along the lines of the Kardashians rather than someone who’s won multiple major awards for excellence in journalism.

    Also very revealingly, Anderson wasn’t publicly out until July 2012. The interview with the Pearls took place in August 2011. So when Debi says “they informed me they were TV reporters making a video clip for a homosexual TV personality”…. that would be kind of a lie, wouldn’t it.

    • Brennan

      This bothered me as much as anything else about the statement. I pretty much expect Debbi to spew anti-gay bigotry like a toddler with the stomach flu, but the “TV personality” thing really got my back up. At first I was confused and thought she mean, say, Ellen DeGeneres (and it *still* would have been a disrespectful way to put it). I’m not a huge fan of Mr. Cooper’s reporting, but we can at least agree that there’s a difference between people who are “TV personalities” and people who’ve been beat up while covering Tahrir Square.

    • Gillianren

      This confuses me, to he honest, because I knew he was gay before July 2012 and thought he’d already come out when a big deal was made of his coming out.

      • Alix

        IIRC, a lot of people were pretty sure he was, and I seem to recall him making a few comments that, while never confirming his sexuality explicitly, sure seemed to point towards him being gay. His coming out was probably the least surprising coming out ever, but I was happy that he felt he could do so.

      • Richter_DL

        It was one of these open secrets that flourish in the media. Like Tom Cruise and John Travolta.

  • Tel

    I’ve never heard “lesbian” used in such a demeaning manner before. I don’t even see how the reporter’s sexuality was so relevant as to be (A) the one thing we knew beyond “reporter” and (B) mentioned every time “reporter” is mentioned.

    • Cathy W

      In Debi’s head, lesbians hate God and men and motherhood, and so if you believe this reporter it’s like getting a review from a vegetarian about a steakhouse. I guess.

      • Mira

        But MAN steakhouses can often have DELICIOUS veggie dishes. Mmmm…

      • Kate Monster

        I would definitely read a blog by a vegetarian who went around to different MEAT! restaurants and reviewed just the veggie dishes.

      • Alix

        Similarly, I’d love to read a blog from a die-hard steak lover going around to vegetarian/vegan places and trying the fare. (I think I’d especially love to see this ’cause it’d help convince people veggies aren’t vile.)

      • Ibis3

        I’m a die-hard steak lover. If you’re ever in Ottawa, try The Table. Yummy.

      • Alix

        …The pictures alone are making me hungry.

      • Whirlwitch

        Chiming in to mention: my wife and I had our wedding reception at The Table (Westboro location).

        After getting married in the arboretum next to the Central Experimental Farm on a willow island, preceded by a 13-year-old girl bagpiper, and then heading to The Table via horse-drawn carriage. :D

  • wanderer

    I found Debi’s post hard to follow. It’s like she was trying to say something but never actually coming out and saying it, and she thought we all knew what she meant. And what’s the point of saying that a famous gay reporter wanted to interview them if later she admits it’s Anderson Cooper?
    She seems very much locked in her own version of reality.

    • Richter_DL

      It’s wink-wink nudge-nudge homophobia.

  • AAAtheist

    Debi’s response to legitimate, journalistic inquiries about the contribution TTUAC had in two deaths is to repeatedly mention the nonnormative sexual orientations of the people asking the questions, as if one thing had anything to do with the other.

    I might be incorrect in my speculation here, and maybe I shouldn’t say this, but her fundy outrage is starting to take on a serious Ted Haggard vibe. If you’ll pardon my mixed metaphors, methinks she doth protest a bit too much for comfort. Debi’s getting some serious side eye from me.

    Again, I may be totally off base. LGBTQI individuals, godlessness, and progressive politics seem to be the ultimate insults and transgressions in her sad little world. Therefore, anytime she feels a threat she just trots them out to score points inside her community. Why not throw in a dumpy duplex while you’re at it, Debi?

    But if she has (or has had or secretly yearns for) some sweet, womanly, and closeted bit-of-fundy stuff on the sly, I wouldn’t be surprised … at all.

    • NeaDods

      I don’t think she has any lesbian interests. I just think that she thinks “gay” is THE worst insult there is. Which is why she throws it around like a kid throws around “poopiehead.”

      • AAAtheist

        True enough. Like I said, I could be wrong in my speculation.

        That said, so many right-leaning types that work against LGBT rights (including the aforementioned Ted Haggard who rails against the evils of homosexuality from the pulpit) have later been found out to have homosexual desires themselves. It’s almost a stereotype. Yes, there are plenty of homophobes who aren’t in any way sexually interested in their own gender and Debi may very well be one of them.

        But when someone so consistently rails against a certain orientation (lesbians for Debi), that behavior pegs my “deflect-o-meter” into the red. My gauge may need recalibration in this instance.

      • NeaDods

        On sober reflection, you may be right. She does spend a LOT of time talking about how women on their own turn to each other for sex.

      • Richter_DL

        In a society where a woman’s worth is equivalent to the number of offsping she produces, lesbianism probably indeed is the worst insult for a woman there is.

  • Mel

    Methinks Debi Pearl needs a gift of a thesaurus and a recent history book. Using the term “Nazi” should be reserved for genocidal governments. If you don’t like someone, there are many other terms you can use to discredit them. Also, gay, lesbian, trans, etc, is a term to describe a sexual orientation. It’s not a slur, regardless of what Debi thinks.

    • http://noadi.etsy.com/ Sheryl Westleigh

      Tiny quibble: Trans* describes gender identity not sexual orientation.

      • Mel

        True. I apologize.

  • AnotherOne

    Is Debi ignorant of the fact that tens of thousands of homosexuals were imprisoned and killed in Nazi Germany? Cause if we’re going to trot out the holocaust and accuse people of being Nazis every time they say something we don’t like, then I’m thinking the comparison needs to be turned back on her.

    • The_L1985

      Of course. “Pink Nazis” are a common (and really weird) gay slur in some Religious-Right circles, because such people don’t bother to pay any attention to history or the fact that nuance exists. These things are Not Like Us, therefore they are Bad. And all Bad People do the same Bad Things, because those things are what make them Bad People.

      It’s basically the real-life version of “Four legs good, two legs bad!”

    • Gillianren

      Yes. Yes, she is. Of course she is. You can tell, because she keeps citing that six million figure. And that is the number of Jews who were killed in the Holocaust, and the Jews were the single largest group of Holocaust victims. But all the gentile victims added together is actually a larger group, by most estimates. Probably including some of my family; my great-grandmother was a Gypsy.

    • Richter_DL

      To be precise, gays. The Nazis left lesbians alone, pretty much.

      • The_L1985

        “Gay” is an adjective, not a noun. Also, lesbians are technically gay too. “Gay men” would be more correct in this case. &lt/nitpick&gt

      • Richter_DL

        Ah, really? Thanks then.

      • TurelieTelcontar

        Just a short pointer to a fellow German-speaker: Putting adjectives as nouns for a group of people that is described by this adjective in a sentence in English, like “gays”, “blacks”, sounds offensive. It’s (as far as I can tell) only used in a discriminatory context. (Kind of like putting the plural article in German in front of the word.)

      • Richter_DL

        Hunh. Guess I should try and avoid that, then. Thanks.

      • Conuly

        Interesting tidbit: this is an actual phenomenon that goes beyond LGBT issues.

        http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2004/07/29/the-chicken-says-cock-a-doodle-doo/

      • guest

        Douglas Hofstadter talks about how this phenomenon relates to sexism in ‘The Slippery Slope of Sexism’ (which I believe is in The Mind’s I)–starting with ‘men’ meaning ‘both men and women’ and going on from there.

      • Susie M

        Why just the men and not the women? I’ve never learned this, despite extensive study of the period…

      • Richter_DL

        Hitler had it personally out for gay men. Also, ever since the Roehm affair, where Hitler`s faction of the party disposed of the SA`s entire leadership on the claim they were a gay cartel planning a coup, they kind of had set a precedent. Lesbianiam was illegal, too, but unlikely to get someone on a one-way cattle train.

        In the end, it, i think, comes down to 19th century machismo and one one-balled man`s many insecurities.

      • TurelieTelcontar

        Lesbian women were more likely to be considered “antisocial”. Because it’s antisocial for a woman not to get married and have as many children as she can, so that the Reich would have more future soldiers.

        A woman being married to a man and producing/raising children having sex with another woman doing the same in the time she can’t get pregnant again anyway (her husband’s at war, she’s already pregnant, she’s nursing) is not as much of a problem according to this ideology as a man acting like a woman, or refusing to father children.

        Also, it would have meant admitting that women actually do have a sex drive.

    • Baby_Raptor

      I’m not sure if it’s ignorance so much as a case of not caring.

  • minuteye

    I would say the most offensive part is where she likens herself to a Holocaust victim, shortly after she tries to discredit people by saying they’re gay and lesbian… you know, a group that actually was targeted during the Holocaust.

  • Ruana

    One of the best examples I’ve ever seen of preaching to the converted. If challenged, she can simply deny that she was referring to Williams or Schatz. There may be a case out there in which it was widely (for a given value of ‘widely’) but erroneously reported that the Pearls’ methods were linked to a child’s death. She can use that as an alibi, whilst leaving her target audience with the impression that she actually was referring to one of the more high-profile cases.

    Basically, this isn’t going to convince anyone without the correct Pavlovian response to “Hitler! Satan! HOMOZ BE LYIN!” but then, those aren’t the people Debi’s trying to convince.

    • whatcom mom

      That’s exactly it. In a masochistic moment I went to their original post and read the comments, at least the ones that made it to the screen: adulation, support, outrage at the wicked ways of the world.

  • Noelle

    Throwing out the Hitler argument is akin to using the phrase “drink the kool-aid”. Both refer to such horrible tragedies that it takes a disgustingly callus person to use it so flippantly in discussing something that doesn’t involve something as equally horrible. Using it also shows you don’t really have a point of logic to offer in said argument.

    • Sally

      “Using it also shows you don’t really have a point of logic to offer in said argument.”
      Quite true.

  • attackfish

    Oh my God, Debi, take it from a bisexual disabled Jewish woman, you do not get to use the Holocaust.

    • Hilary

      Fistbump of solidarity, sister. +1,000

    • Petticoat Philosopher

      I don’t even get what she’s banging on about. ”

      Debi: Hitler told lies. These people are telling lies. So therefore these people are like Hitler! Or something. Mostly, I just wanted to say “Hitler.” Hitler!

      Just please stop, Debi.

  • Richter_DL

    “Hitler’s propagandists used one of Satan’s choice tools to pull off the
    biggest crime toward mankind in the history of the world. They used a
    lie. They taught that if you tell a lie and keep repeating it enough,
    people will eventually come to believe it. And when they believe—truly
    believe—it will turn them into activists who will bring it to pass.”

    Funny. Isn’t that the media strategy of America’s conservatives since Reagan’s times?

  • Kate Monster

    With advice like this:

    “If you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he has surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring, and are unmoved by his wailing. Defeat him totally…A general rule is to continue the disciplinary action until the child has surrendered.” (TTUAC p46)

    it’s remarkable that more children haven’t died.

  • Susie M

    Using the Holocaust–When I did speech and debate in college, Hitler was a topic we weren’t really supposed to bring up. It’s such an automatic sympathy vote, that in the realm of rhetoric and argument, it would actually cause us to lose (literal) points.

    Someone said something about how she cites the 6 million number. I’m assuming she cites it because it’s the number most adults ‘know’. However, I doubt she knows that that was one third of the entire Jewish population on earth–and that it has only recent regained pre-Holocaust strength. I also suspect that she doesn’t realize that Hitler didn’t invent anti-antisemitism *gasp*, that he hated so many differing groups, and that he was intent on conquering the world.

    And “lesbian reporter” and “gay reporter”–someone is playing on her audience’s insane homophobia so that she can hide from the truth. She’s almost…scared.

  • Mogg

    The sad thing is, I read that post of Debi’s and was struck at how similar it is to much of the preaching and teachings of my family’s church/sect. The only thing they wouldn’t have done is used multiple instances of “homosexual” or “lesbian” as a slur, because they truly believe that homosexuality is so far beyond the pale that it doesn’t even need mentioning. Everything else, particularly the call to “stand” in the face of the attitudes of the evil world, is from the same playbook.

  • lauraleemoss

    Good. I hope she’s worried sick. Of course she’s not worried about the children she and her husband have contributed to the ruin of, she’s worried about her financial future or reputation.

  • J_Enigma32

    Debi’s rant gets a 45.5c of out 99.9c on my Crackpot-o-Meter (‘c’ is the total Crackpot Quotation; each right-wing rant is compared to others to see how they measure up, with the highest possible Crackpot Quotation being 99.9).

    + Props for using the Nazis and the death of 6,000,000+ people as props (I’d seriously expect nothing more from these people*)
    + Props for repeated ad hominems
    + Props for repeated use of red herrings
    + Props for both of the above while pretending to be making a serious argument
    + Props for the use of a sexual identity as an invective
    + Props for mentioning “Stance” and “Standing”, something no RWC rant is complete without.

    However:
    - No attempts to be inclusive; points deduced for no mention of Socialists or Communists at all. All good right-wing rants mention them.
    - Not nearly enough uses of caps-lock
    - I’ve seen rich white men strike better Self-Victimization stances, so no props here; work harder to make yourself look like a victim next time, Debi
    - I found the amount of psychological projection… lacking. You need to catch up with Brian Fischer, Debi. He’ll learn you a thing or too about psychological projection.
    - Satan is old news. Where are the pagans? Where are the atheists? Where are the Muslims? Where are the Pagan Atheist Muslims?
    - No mention of Obama, Kenya, or a Birth Certificate (it doesn’t matter if these aren’t remotely related; like nature, RWCs find a way)

    Overall, I found this rant to be depressingly lacking. For a woman with a history like hers, I was expecting so much more out of you, Debi. You disappointed me. Better luck next time.

    —–

    * I mentioned over on the Slacktivist a while back that the bar for the Republican Party has been lowered so far that it’s orbiting a star in the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy – and they still can’t meet it. Apparently, the Pearls are looking to compete with that.

  • http://abasketcase.blogspot.com/ Basketcase

    There is more to be appalled about, but this jumped out at me:

    during that time over 1500 children a year died at the hands of their drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling parents

    So, apparently, all those parents who dont homeschool are drugged? Huh?

    • Ruana

      No, no, didn’t you see the ‘otherwise’? Some non-homeschooling parents are gays, lesbians, Planned Parenthood employees, D&D players, non-Christians…

      • Hilary

        Non-Christian, Lesbian, former D&D player with a college degree in a real science. IOW, total evil and depravity here.

      • Jolie

        European here so might be a cultural thing… What the flying F do they have against D&D?

      • Alix

        It’s satanic, supposedly. >.>

      • Ruana

        European also – actually, the big D&D panic was an Eighties – Nineties thing, but there are still those who are convinced it’s linked to Satanism and teen suicide.

  • lollardheretic

    The title alone is fabulous. It reads like something out of a sordid Enquirer cover.

  • Lisa Bennet

    Hitler, Hitler, HITLER OH MY GOD. You DO NOT get to use Hitler or the Holocaust in an argument, ever. Just no. Whenever somebody uses it, I can’t help but think “Do you really think your readers are so uneducated that they will nod and scream ‘Yes, yes, HITLER!’?”


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