Quoting Quiverfull: God Orders You to be a Wife and Mother?

Quoting Quiverfull: God Orders You to be a Wife and Mother? October 7, 2017

Lori Alexanders Brainby Lori Alexander from The Transformed Wife – God’s Calling For Women

Editor’s note: Skipping the part where Lori humble brags about the hit numbers on her photos of that tablet she writes in. All the while she’s in pearl clutching mode that women would dare to think they might hear from God and have ambitions beyond the kitchen and house. Notice that at the end of this she claims the only women who can teach others are like her. Lori’s advice is always the same – you cannot hear from God you selfish women, but I can and I am Godly to teach you about him. She does not have an ounce of self-awareness about how nonsensical her ideas are. Classic do as I say, not as I do.

I don’t know where this new movement came from that decided that women can “hear” from God and find out their calling. It’s not that difficult to find out what God calls us to do! Concerning a husband, God “calls” us to marry a believer. That’s it! Beyond that, He’s given us free will to marry a man who is a believer.

Concerning what kind of a wife He has called us to be, He has made this very clear in His Word: submissive to our own husbands and having meek and quiet spirits. Concerning children, He wants us to be fruitful and multiply since children are a blessing from Him. Concerning finances, He doesn’t want us to go into debt, He wants us to be generous and to work hard. Concerning raising our children, He wants us to raise them in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord.

f you’re going to listen to women teachers, listen to those who teach what God has instructed them to teach. He’s clear in His Word about this, too. If they never mention loving and obeying your husband, being discreet, chaste, sober, good, and keepers at home, find other women teachers who do teach what God has “called” them to teach. Learn the doctrines of the faith from godly men preachers/teachers of the Word. God has “called” men to preach/teach the Word of God and it’s all very, very good.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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  • Tawreos

    Someone should warn her that if god doesn’t ever call on women then some woman named Mary may have given birth to a demon or something about 2,000 years ago. I read a book where some guy named Luke said an angel from god spoke to Mary. Which is ridiculous since we all know he would spoken to Mary’s husband or father so as not to dirty himself with the woman cooties or whatever it is that keeps him from acting like a decent being when it comes to women.

  • Nightshade

    Seems related to that post that says women aren’t created in the image of God, that only men get to hear directly from on high. A woman is only allowed to sit down, shut up, and obey her lord and master. Noooooo, thanks!

  • AFo

    Sounds like Lori is jealous that there are women out there doing what they want and living happy lives, and Lori can’t have that because womanhood is apparently supposed to be all misery and suffering, while the men get to be happy and have all the fun. Sorry Lori, but I’ll take my chances and be a working harlot; at least it’s my choice.

  • MillyPierce

    I made a tumblr of the posts on her “chat room” http://quotinggodlyladies.tumblr.com/
    ETA: I put up the wrong link, it’s fixed now

  • pinkie

    Something’s been eating my messages, so I’ll try again. Anyway, Lori’s sounding a lot like my father…they’re both the only one God ever talks to, and it’s uncanny how often God agrees with them and says exactly what they think He should.

  • Mel

    This is the woman who apparently “heard” God and decided that the best way to follow Him was to sabotage her birth control so she could get pregnant with kid number 2 and be a stay-at-home mom like she wanted to since Ken wanted her to work until they had two kids.

    Does that sound submissive to her husband to you? Because to me that sounds a whole lot worse than choosing not to marry or have kids.

  • SAO

    In short, if a woman prays and hears a call to do good, inspired by the bible or a sermon, she should ignore— it isn’t real. But if a man feels a whim — like honey, get me another beer — it’s a call from God that should be answered promptly.

  • Anonyme

    Says women can’t decide what God wants them to do; goes on to tell women what God wants them to do.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    I only regret I can only upvote this once.

  • bekabot

    Sure thing. An angel would never ever talk to a woman, ‘cuz what do they have in common? What would they have to discuss? Knitting? Hairstyles? Whether or not Kim Kardashian is fat?

    Added: of course, this neatly undercuts any Divine imprimatur Lori herself might claim to have.

  • Jo

    What arrogance that she knows better than God

  • persephone

    OMG, the gay dentist question. *smh* One of the specialists (I have three, and will be adding a fourth soon; illness is annoying) is gay. Didn’t know, didn’t care. He mentioned his husband one time. He is the kindest, gentlest person, always makes me feel loved and cared for when I see him; that’s what I care about.

  • MillyPierce

    The whole time I was going through the comments I was like, but how do you really know?

  • persephone

    Fear and manipulation rules these women’s lives. It’s horrifying to me. I don’t want people to fear or manipulate me (well, maybe there’s a couple of people at work who need to fear me), but not in my personal relationships. Ugh. Every little thing that happens in that kind of relationship becomes internal drama. I don’t have the energy.

  • Debbie Holt

    And, who is Lori to decide what God may be calling other women to do?!! I’m a college educated Bachelor’s Degree nurse, and I’m currently working on a Master’s Degree in Christian Counseling and Psychology so I can also be a hospital chaplain. I KNOW for a FACT that this is God’s calling on my life, because He has opened amazing doors for me, like getting my education funded debt-free! I look forward to being a minister to both men and women! I also KNOW that when people are desperate, hurting, and seeking religious counsel and prayer, that they could care less if it’s a male or (heaven forbid!) female counseling them and praying for them. I can name women in the Bible that truly did work outside of the home (Ruth, Anna, and Rahab), however, when I make these postings on her blog in a respectful manner, they are always deleted. Lori cannot stand anyone that dares to disagree with her!

  • Debbie Holt

    I wholeheartedly agree! When doing business, and healthcare is a business, I look for the most
    professional, experienced person I can find. I’m hiring them for their expertise– and their sexual orientation has nothing to do with that.

  • Debbie Holt

    And, the Bible does NOT say anywhere that women are less than men. I have no idea where Lori comes up with or reads this false information, but the Bible clearly states that both men as well as women are made in the image of God.

  • Debbie Holt

    I LOVE your response, SAO! Very well said!

  • Almost a chimp

    Oh, my giddy aunt. The following quotes are from Lori’s replies to comments to this article on her blog:

    The truth is the only thing that convicts and changes people!

    Of course, Lori is honesty personified, isn’t she?

    Every single female doctor that I have known personally and talked with admits to neglecting their children and husband.

    Hmm, maybe not that honest.
    Now this, from the article itself:

    I don’t know where this new movement came from that decided that women can “hear” from God and find out their calling….[snip out some waffle]….(I)f you’re going to listen to women teachers, listen to those who teach what God has instructed them to teach.

    So God doesn’t tell women personally what their calling is, except when he does! I assume that the part about women who have been ‘instructed to teach’ by God (despite God not doing that) is a tad self-referential.

    Sheez, Lori has such a dearth of self-awareness I’d be surprised if she could recognise her own reflection in a mirror.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    I’m sure female doctors and other female professionals are just dying to talk about their family life and work/life balance with the likes of Lori Alexander.

  • bekabot

    The catch here, I have no doubt, is that Lori has never personally known or had a chum-to-chum discussion with a female doctor. It’s the same joke the people in my family used to make when they assured my Mom’s cat that she (meaning the cat) was the loveliest cat in the house. (Which was true, because she was the only cat in the house.)

  • Kimberly Iorillo

    It’s those old 1800 commentaries she’s using.

  • bekabot

    Well, St. Paul says it, arguably. If you want to interpret his words that way you certainly can. The question which puzzles me is: why is it that Doug Wilson and the Alexanders and the Pearls and the rest of their gang are so intent and so determined to interpret him (St. Paul) at his worst, and why is it that they’re so fixated on on the one chapter in Titus (Titus 2) to the exclusion of so much of the rest of the New Testament, including (so far as women are concerned) all four of the Gospels? If younger women are to be taught how to be “good women” by older women, and if that’s all they’re supposed to learn, then what do they need Jesus for? Home Economics ought to be enough.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    I kind of get the feeling that Lori hasn’t had chum-to-chum discussions with that many people, period. She strikes me as very socially isolated and extremely bored. I mean, with all the minutiae she shares about her life, does any of it ever include female friends or women she works on church projects with or any mention of anyone unrelated to her at all unless it’s someone (usually a non-specific woman) she’s sneering at for Doing It Wrong? I seriously wonder if she has any friends or if even the presumably very conservative women she goes to church with find her to be an unpleasant busybody. What does she do besides putter around her house while her husband is at work, cleaning and re-cleaning stuff, cooking bad food, and blogging about how everyone else sucks?

  • Almost a chimp

    Looking again at the comments to this article on Lori’s blog (I know I shouldn’t, but I’m a fan of unintentional humour. Well, either that, or I’ve got a warped sense of what’s funny. Either way, it’s comedy pyrite) I noticed that the first comment is from ‘Trey’, whom some people here suspect is actually Ken (just as I suspect from the style and structure of other comments that several of her female commenters are actually Lori heaping praise upon herself). Whether it’s Ken or not, ‘Trey’ begins with ‘Excellent Lori’, and I wonder whether there’s a comma missing, because without one following ‘excellent’ the compliment is for Lori rather than her post.
    I err on the side of an unintentional omission as ‘Trey’ does display more basic grammatical errors with his punctuation. Well, either errors or he’s showing some remarkable cynicism when he writes about “….falling into Gods “will” and “calling” for us….”.
    Leaving aside the implication of multiple Gods (which in any case shouldn’t be capitalized), those double apostrophes make it read as though ‘Trey’ is being sarcastic about God’s (There, ‘Trey’, that’s how it should be written) will and calling, which annoys me no end because that’s my job. :-))

    The best bit, however, is the way he seems to patronise either the readers or Lori, (or both, as he probably assumes he’s addressing an entirely female and therefore stupid audience). I’m sure that everybody who reads that blog is aware of what a Christian is, yet good old ‘Trey’ still feels compelled to write ” How can you claim to be a Christian (follower of Christ)…..”. Really, ‘Trey’? You had to explain that?

    One day soon, Lori will lose her no.1 fan when the villagers ring to ask for their idiot back.

  • Astreja

    (presses upvote button on Tawreos’ post) I got this. 😀

  • Astreja

    I think we should conspire to do even more of what we want and live even happier lives. If it annoys Ms. Alexander, so much the better.

  • therealcie

    Lori doesn’t seem to have a very meek and quiet spirit. Should we trust a woman teacher who doesn’t practice what she preaches?

  • SAO

    My (only) sister and I used to say to each other ‘you’re my favorite sister.’ Always as a joke.

  • Aloha

    “God gives women free will to marry a godly man.”

    I don’t know how that resonates with single Christian ladies. Personally, I was part of a gang of Christian women in our 30’s and 40’s — all single. Some of us have eventually gotten married, and many have remained childless due to (probably) complications with age.

    You’re not just “free” to marry Mr. Perfect. Mr. Perfect has to exist and be interested in you for that to happen.
    You’re not just “free” to multiply. Infertility is a big issue, and many people would give everything they’ve got just to have a baby.

  • zizania

    I’m sure she interprets their nodding and smiling and wishing she’d shut the f*** up as agreeing with her.

  • bekabot

    It is true that the casual reader gets the feeling that the Alexanders have no social circle outside their own sock puppets. That’s the impression they convey, for whatever reason.

  • smrnda

    With ‘Every single female doctor that I have known personally and talked with admits to neglecting their children and husband’ – I think that we have to translate from what the doctor might have actually said into Lori-speak. So if the doctor says ‘my husband is going to cook dinner tonight since I’ll be working late’ – Lori translates this to ‘I am neglecting my children and my husband.’ If the doctor talks about an after school activity her children are doing – this is ‘I am neglecting my children.’

  • Zeldacat

    I don’t even know if my doctor is married, let alone whether she has kids. And I don’t care. She’s a good doc, and that’s what matters to me.

  • Kimberly Iorillo

    That makes me wonder what the pastoral staff and their wives of her church think about her blog. I think it would be awfully funny if she had to undergo the first step or 2 of Matthew 18 church discipline (one on one meeting, then with a group of people before being brought before the church as a whole) for that whole “women are not made in the image of God” post that was eventually taken down…Sorry, I feel bad saying that, but it would make me chuckle if it was true. Talk about leven levening the whole lump…(1 person spreading certain teachings that start to affect the whole congregation).

  • Almost a chimp

    I once heard somebody say that if your parents tell you they don’t have a favourite child, it means it isn’t you, which is going to be upsetting whether you have one sibling or a dozen, but positively heartbreaking if you’re an only child.

  • SAO

    I refused to play favorites with my kids, as all good parents do. I told my son he is my favorite son and my daughter that she is my favorite daughter. They used to try to get me to say one or the other, but the last time my son tried, his sister told him to forget it, I’d just say I loved them both.

    Love is hard to quantify. If you are annoyed at kid 1 this moment and happy with kid 2, does that mean right then you love 2 more than 1? If kid 1 is going through adolescent obnoxiousness and kid 2 is still a cooperative preteen, do you love kid 2 more that year? I don’t think so. My patience might fluctuate, but I think my love is deep and abiding and recognizes that my two kids are very different.

  • paganheart

    I sometimes wonder if Lori actually attends a church or not. Has she ever mentioned an actual church she attends by name? Or a pastor? (I don’t visit her actual blog that often because it does terrible things to my blood pressure when I do, so I don’t know.) There are some so-called “Christians” out there who refuse to attend a church, because they can’t find one that’s “true” or “pure” enough for them. A late aunt and uncle of mine were like that; basically they were radically anti-choice and extremely bigoted, and they came to the conclusion that none of the churches in their community were doing enough to stop abortion, or condemn non-Christians and non-whites, so they just stopped attending and became a church unto themselves, praying and reading the Bible at home. I would not be surprised at all if that’s what Lori and Ken do; either that or they attend a very small “church” that meets in someone’s basement or back room.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I broke my kids of that habit when they were little. When they would ask which was my favorite child I would tell them the cat was…and then explain yet again why the favorite child question was impossible to answer because you cannot quantify love like that.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I think noticing the internal inconsistencies in an authorized Cultural Enforcer’s dictates is considered a serious sin in their subculture… and pointing them out to others is even worse.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Lori probably read some mainstream media article on the subject of women’s struggle with work-life balance which happened to quote a doctor… and in her mind, that turned into “All female doctors say they neglect their husbands and kids”. Claiming that she has spoken personally with female physicians makes her point seem stronger than “I read it in a magazine”, so it counts as a “faith-promoting” lie, which is apparently okay with God.

    That, or as zizania suggests, she’s had appointments with some female medical providers and spouted off her theology to her captive audience. And of course, they were too professional to do more than make polite noncommittal noises while Lori rambled on– which Lori took as full agreement with her thesis.

  • Almost a chimp

    God might give women free will to marry a godly men, but secular law gives them the right to marry whoever they want (subject to the usual legal conditions).
    God 0 : 1 Secular Law.

  • Almost a chimp

    Speaking of Lori’s unfamiliarity with honesty, there’s a guest post up on her blog which was written as a comment in a chatroom she frequents (haunts?) and reposted by Lori.
    The post is titled DOGGED DETERMINATION TO STAY AT HOME, and in the intro Lori says that the original author asked to remain anonymous. Oddly, toward the end of the post the author said that she would be happy to give advice on money-saving and living on a restricted budget to anybody who wants it, which was probably meant for the chatroom users, so Lori’s anonymity statement could be true at this stage and she’s just guilty of sloppy editing.
    Two replies in and a commentor asks for tips on saving.
    Lori’s reply;

    This was written by a woman in the chat room and I asked her if I could make it into a post a few months ago so I have forgotten who wrote it!

    So what’s going on here? Is the answer:
    a) The author did ask for anonymity and the bit about forgetting was a genuine mistake by Lori?
    b) Lori genuinely forgot the writer’s name, and the anonymity bit was a mistake?
    c) Lori plagiarised the article, made the anonymity request up but went to pieces and forgot that lie when put on the spot by a request for advice and made up the second, forgetfulness excuse?
    d) As c, except Lori wrote the whole thing herself, because she needs to lie to herself and others in order to validate her life choices?

    Send your answers on a postcard, but not to me; I think I already know the answer :-))

  • Almost a chimp

    I think that calling Lori’s lies ‘internal inconsistencies’ is commendably charitable of you, Astrin. In fact, it’s positively Geldofian. :-))

  • TLC

    I had a female doctor whose husband, also a doctor, practiced in the same office as she did, and they backed each other up. When he was 46, the husband started having severe heart problems. He was ordered to work half days or less, and could not take on new patients for a long time. It was a good thing Mom had the ability to support them and their teo kids while Dad went through an extended period of recovery. Of course, Lori would probably think that they should have just sat at home and waited for “the Lord to provide.”

  • Kimberly Iorillo

    The comments on that one are heartbreaking. I needed to refrain from backing the one women up who said that it is NOT possible in ALL circumstances for the wife to stay home because A) I just don’t have the time to get involved and B) my comments probably wouldn’t get posted anyway.

  • Almost a chimp

    Did you notice Lori’s response to that one? She’s basically telling the commenter that it isn’t working for her because she’s not a good enough Christian, that she needs to pray more and seek the LORD (why do they always shout that? Do they think he’s a bit hard of hearing?) ‘cos if she gets God on her side all things are possible.

    She also uses the Trump tactic of invoking imaginary support for her warped ideas in the guise of ‘many people’. Lori’s many people have written to her to tell her that they’ve quit jobs to follow her teaching. She’s proud that there are more families (possibly fictitious, but the point is still valid) living in needless poverty because she told them that God will provide. I could take that sanctimonious shrew to any graveyard to put the lie to that nonsense.

    At best, her ‘teaching’ causes hardship and misery for hungry, poorly dressed, badly educated, socially isolated children; stressed mothers with little to no outside support, constant worry over where the next meal might come from or how to pay the bills, and low self-respect from their complete submissiveness; and husbands who might indeed be treated as kings at home but, if they’ve anything about them, have to feel guilt for not earning enough or working all hours just to allow the family to survive.
    At worse, children’s health will suffer terribly through the effects of malnutrition which, even if it doesn’t kill them will certainly retard growth and development of their bodies and brains, as well as make them more vulnerable to infections and illness.

    She simply cannot understand that she is actively encouraging and maybe even aiding and abetting child neglect and causing tensions in marriages where none may have existed before she stuck her ever-so holy nose into their lives.

    I’m surprised that she let the commenter’s response to that stay up, because KAK (the commenter’s user-name: Also a British euphamism for excrement!) said flat out that Lori’s teaching doesn’t work in real life, and that her family’s life improved enormously when she went back to work.
    That had to hit Lori right in the pride.

  • Almost a chimp

    One more point, this regarding your mention of not commenting there: Her latest post, Bashing Men is Fine and Dandy is basically a polemic on women who not only refuse to be submissive to their husbands, but also try to civilise them. I decided to test the water and left the following comment;

    I may be writing this comment in vain because I’ll be very surprised if it is allowed to stay up on this comment page, but hope springs eternal so here goes.

    There is some astonishing hypocrisy in this article. You say that women shouldn’t browbeat their husbands into becoming a better person (not your words but that is the thrust of the message in the picture; it doesn’t mean literally stomp them), and you quite rightly acknowledge that it would be unacceptable for a man to say this about a woman, yet you positively encourage women to allow themselves to be ‘stomped’ by their husbands by way of submissiveness, and not even to make the women acceptable to have dinner with, but just to make them acceptable to MAKE the dinner.
    You also state that men are not children, yet at the same time think that wives should be more like mothers looking after toddlers and do everything for them, from cooking to picking up after them, catering to their every want and need at the expense of their own.

    As a man, I am more than capable of making a meal and doing housework and am happy to do so, despite also working. I also could not love my wife of forty years any more than I already do, and would be mortified if she so much as thought that she should be subservient to me.

    Anybody here daft enough to think it passed moderation by Lori? Thought not.

  • smrnda

    I doubt it. The worst thing for people in her subculture is admitting that MEN find it ridiculous. It’s one thing to denounce women who refuse to submit selfishly, but another for a man to walk in and go ‘the men in your subculture disgust me and sound less mature than small kids. Why are their egos being propped up?’

  • Anonyme

    ”I’m surprised that she let the commenter’s response to that stay up”

    I have a feeling that Lori wanted to point out the commenter. “See her? She dares to spend some time working because she says she’s tried everything and can’t make it happen! This is what happens when you don’t pray hard enough, ladies! Don’t be like this worldly, heathen commenter!”

    To make it worse, KAK sounds like she WANTS to stay home but can’t, so good job Lori, way to add extra bitchiness.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I think you’re right! ;-D

  • katiehippie

    I tell each of my boys “you’re one of my favorite sons”

  • katiehippie

    I could say it too. “Every single female doctor I have known personally admits to neglecting their children and husband”
    That’s because I’ve never known any female doctors personally. Only professionally. I don’t ask about their families. So it’s technically true.

  • Kimberly Iorillo

    Oh, I can’t even…her newest post! She literally said this: “If women in the Bible could do it, so can you [work from home], if you need the extra income.” I. just. can’t. Yes, a lot of companies are allowing people to work remotely (I personally teach for an online public charter school in Michigan even though I live in Cleveland), but working completely from home with a completely free schedule (hardly any set dates for things or meetings) is rare. I am lucky that my school is project based, so there are not many direct teaching sessions at all, but that is rare in online high school education right now. I know several moms who sell products from their home. Do you have any idea how much time it takes (away from family and kids) to actually make profit? Just open youtube and watch some LuLaRoe horror stories…How does “yay, I can work from home!” but also “I had to put thousands of dollars on a credit card to get ‘on-boarded'” fit in with Lori’s super rigid “work from home but have no debt” ideal?

  • texassa

    I find that the more I experience and accomplish, the greater my understanding of the world – including god and his people – grows. Anyone who shuts themselves off from life through self-imposed rules and limitations is stifling their understanding of the world and life god created. Then they sit at home hacking away at their keyboards in desperate, passionate attempts to convince themselves and others that they are “happy” and that their choices are “righteous.” Lady, if you were happy you wouldn’t be spending so much time trying to convince everyone how right you are. All you’re doing here is outing yourself for being miserable

  • Melody

    Yes, that’s the only focus: is your potential husband a believer? The only question that is deemed important. Not: do you even like him? Are you a good match together? Is there (sexual) attraction?Are your views similar on important issues? Do you find the same issues important? I could go on and on. Also another question: do you even facny guys? Important thing to know as well, I’d say, but no attention for that either. It’s like none of it matters…. Oh, wait… O_o

    No wonder so many of those marriages turn out shitty that way….

  • Debbie Holt

    Yes! Exactly! That’s all that matters!