Rachel Held Evans and Lori Alexander – When the Corpse Isn’t Even Cold and Lori Attacks

Rachel Held Evans and Lori Alexander – When the Corpse Isn’t Even Cold and Lori Attacks May 4, 2019

I am sure by now you’ve heard the shocking news that Christian author Rachel Held Evans is dead at 37 years old. She passed on this morning after a medical misadventure resulting from an allergic reaction this week to an antibiotic. Rachel was an influential blogger and author who managed to still be a Christian and not a toxic female cultural enforcer.

Many of my favorite other Patheos bloggers have already said all the good things there are to say about Rachel and her shocking death. Like Hemant of The Friendly Atheist I have had my own correspondence with Rachel. I’ll miss  her, she was a delightful woman who had the courage to take unpopular stances against the more toxic ideas in the Evangelical world.

Shortly after I left my first toxic church, when I was still crying every day over the river of hate being flung my way Rachel made me laugh with her book “A Year of Biblical Womanhood”. This book was where she examined how the women of the Bible lived. It took some quite funny and strange turns. But for me it was part of my healing journey out of my old Quiverfull church.

Her take on so many things, Bible or not, will be missed, a rational voice in the midst of the more hating versions of Christianity.

But, in the midst of this sorrow we always get a few uglier people rejoicing over her death, this time being led by hater in chief Lori Alexander of The Transformed Wife. In Lori’s super secret chatroom and other places Lori has been sharing about the death, not directly admitting her happiness at the death of Rachel, and how she thinks Rachel is now burning in hell. But it is still disgraceful, disrespectful and disgusting.

and her followers…

While Lori does not actually come out and say she’s burning in hell Lori has certainly made her views of Rachel well known through the years. Even if she’s removed the worst of her postings on Rachel from her blog. Now Lori attempts to exploit and profit off her death by talking about Rachel, leading her pack of male followers, men she’s ‘teaching’ to say these most awful things that she will not erase. Women are saying detestable things, but not to the same level of vitriol of the men. This is only one tiny slice of what is being said over in the cockroach nest that is Lori’s social media right now.

We all know how quickly Lori deletes anything by women that does not kiss her rump the way she likes it. But not men. Men are allowed to stay, to talk about raping their wives, being abusive, blaming and bashing women for their own shortcomings, and now speaking ill of the dead with impunity.

Thankfully this seems to have woken up a few of the more fervent supporters of Ms. Alexander.

Amen!

Lori Alexander, ghoulishly trying to score more hits for money in the wake of Rachel Held Evans death. Stirring the pot. There you have it folks. The true Lori.

Lori keeps saying she is the transformed wife, the only transformation I’ve seen is that she has become must meaner, evil and hateful.

Edited to add: To all of you who think I’m being unjustly harsh towards Lori here is her own words on why she’s harping on the death of Rachel.


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NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

I Fired God by Jocelyn Zichtermann

13:24 A Dark Thriller by M Dolon Hickmon

About Suzanne Titkemeyer
Suzanne Titkemeyer went from a childhood in Louisiana to a life lived in the shadow of Washington D.C. For many years she worked in the field of social work, from national licensure to working hands on in a children's residential treatment center. Suzanne has been involved with helping the plights of women and children' in religious bondage. She is a ordained Stephen's Minister with many years of counseling experience. Now she's retired to be a full time beach bum in Tamarindo, Costa Rica with the monkeys and iguanas. She is also a thalassophile. She also left behind years in a Quiverfull church and loves to chronicle the worst abuses of that particular theology. She has been happily married to her best friend for the last 32 years. You can read more about the author here.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Allison the Great

    I’m not surprised. This woman is very good at hitting new lows. It says a lot of about a person when they make someone else’s tragedy all about them and their dumbass religion. I’m glad that one lady called her out over it, even if Lori will delete it. The message will go right over Lori’s head of course, but it had to be said.

  • AFo

    We all know Lori is secretly rejoicing because Rachel was competition, and now there’s one less person out there showing the world that you can be a Christian without being nasty and horrible like Lori is. She definitely thinks Rachel’s sudden death is God punishing her instead of the tragic accident it is

  • Saraquill

    Does Lori have a face anymore? All I see is asshole.

  • Allison the Great

    It’s funny isn’t it, how (more of ) their true colors emerge when something bad happens to a good person. I’ve known lots of evangelicals who love to dance on people’s graves, but if someone were to be that disrespectful to them, they’d whine about persecution. In Lori we see an example of how the bible does not teach morality. People can find verses that justify hateful behavior. Lori and her ilk do not understand that morality comes from empathy, not the self-righteous memorization of scripture.

  • Jennifer

    My comfort is seeing the tear emojis at the hateful comments.

  • Erp

    Know them by their fruits.

  • Brian K

    The kind of worldview that says someone like RHE deserves to rot in Hell eternally is detestable, regardless of whether one manages to exhibit the millimeter-above-pond-scum level of human decency it takes to keep that to oneself for the time being.

  • Peg

    Here’s the truth. When Lori dies absolutely nobody will miss her. She will be remembered as a straight up hateful cow. That has to piss her off and that makes me very happy.

  • Tawreos

    Why would god need to have a gender?

  • Nightshade

    Lori is desperate to go viral again, and is quite happy to use a dead woman to do it. She’s a despicable excuse for a human being. I don’t have the words to adequately express my disgust at her behavior…well, actually I do, but none of them are acceptable for use in civilized company.

  • The same reason god needs a starship, I guess.

  • Astreja

    Keep up the epic hate, Lori! Maybe then you’ll get kicked off social media and we’ll be rid of you at last.

  • As a kid, I was taught God was neither male nor female. Where did Lori learn about religion? (Don’t bother to answer, I could find out by myself if I really wanted to.)

  • French Pandora

    I only heard about Mrs Held Evans on your blog. I can’t express my condolences to her grieving family so I just bought her book.

  • Tawreos

    I know when I was growing up I was taught that god was a man, but I never had a problem with those that claimed that god was female. Now, I have to wonder why there isn’t a female god. Why does a god create male and female of so many animals if there is no female counterpart for him to base that on? I don’t think I read the bible in quite the way people like Lori want me to. =)

  • Maddog

    Yet when I raised this question about how if YHVH is neither male nor female, why is it wrong to refer to YHVH as Mother God, a Christian tried to argue that these thoughts were evidence that I have schizophrenia. Strange the way he tried to pathologize questioning Christian doctrines – and telling.

  • bekabot

    When I heard that Rachel Held Evans was dead I was afraid the Lori contingent would start searching around for nice things to say about her and would try to exonerate themselves by repeating them. I’m relieved to find out that they’ve held on to their nastiness to the last, and past the last — let the record speak for itself. (There was only ever about as much hope that they’d relent and quit talking trash about her as that Trump would start acting ‘Presidential’ once he was inaugurated.) So, all I’ve got to say is — keep up the good work, folks! — and show the whole world what you’re made of. Commit yourselves to the point that you can’t back out, and let future generations read and remember. (Yes, I’m vindictive. Bad Christian, bad attitude, good memory. Not proud of it, but it’s the way I’m made.)

  • bekabot

    lower-tier Fundagelical response = “you’re possessed”
    upper-tier Fundagelical response = “you’re crazy”

  • Elca

    Simple. He made them male and female. It was His choice.
    Do you have a problem with male and female created in his image but with different role?

  • Elca

    God is a spirit but He did chose to reveal Himself in the male gender as Father and not mother. It was his choice.
    Do you have evidence that He revealed himself as Mother?
    If not you are presenting a false image of the creator as Mother God. It is not biblical but cultural to say mother god. Don’t confuse the two.

  • Elca

    I think what was missing in your growing up years is the free sovereign will of God to chose. And he did chose to create , to make the male man first and to make them male and female , on purpose.
    Then He did chose to reveal Himself to mankind in the male gender.
    It is simply his souvergin will at work.
    You can accept it or reject it. That is your choice but will not change what was done according to nature , creation and the Bible.

  • Tawreos

    Go preach somewhere else.

  • Maddog

    Why do you draw a distinction between what is biblical and what is cultural? Is the Bible not part of human cultures? Since you ask me for evidence, can you provide me with evidence that YHVH has never presented as female? Can you cite for me a passage in the Bible in which YHVH promises never to manifest as female? To say that YHVH cannot present as female is to assert that YHVH is not omnipotent. I have no problem with believing that YHVH is not omnipotent (after all, YHVH could not defeat iron chariots), but you may object to this. As a Buddhist, I believe that YHVH is insane and after death will be reborn for a long time in a hell realm and that all who believe in an uncreated creator god are fundamentally mistaken and do not understand cause and effect.

  • Maddog

    Why do you believe what the Bible says about YHVH and the origins of humanity? According to the Bible, YHVH’s sovereign will is not omnipotent – it can be defeated by iron chariots.

  • Tawreos

    You don’t really want to be bringing up evidence for anything when all you have is the bible and nothing corroborate it.

  • Gretchen Beam

    Yes, I can only hope that people will go read her if they haven’t and that in her passing, she will more have more positive impact than Aunt Lori could ever hope to.

  • Elca

    “…all you have is the bible and nothing corroborate it.” Well at lease I have something to use. But what do you have? Your feelings? Your own intellect?
    But I am a male and my wife is a female. What other evidence do I need?

  • French Pandora

    I am not Christian, for me forgiving has limits. It’s too easy to be pressured to forgive when the person who hurt you or someone you love never apologized or recognized that s/he was wrong.

  • Elca

    “Is the Bible not part of human cultures?” Before the various cultures took shape , we are given the Written Word. It transcends culture and time, because we are speaking of the Creator that existed outside of our time.
    Secondly, we are told NOT to conform to the “World “= the kosmos, or the arrangement of it’s systems and believes, but we are to be transform by the Word of God to live according to His Written Word.
    What culture do you feel is better? The American, western culture?
    America is NOT a Biblical Player, has no Biblical significance.

    “can you provide me with evidence that YHVH has never presented as female? “ , Well, I cannot provide what is NOT there. I cannot prove a negative. But I can and did provide you that God chose to reveal Himself in the male gender. I think the onus is on you to show where God the Creator revealed himself or herself in the female gender.
    And if you cannot present it, then it does not exist. Please don’t present metaphors and figures of speech as evidence. It won’t work.

    ” As a Buddhist, I believe that YHVH is insane…” I digress…
    Have a great day.

  • Nea

    Lori loves to silence all who disagree with her and now the biggest, wisest, most educated woman who could contradict her is silenced. Of course she’s going to celebrate.

  • Elca

    Why? because the truth is not welcome here?

  • Tawreos

    Lol you have shared no truth. You assert a bunch of crap from the bible but have nothing to back it up. That is not truth.

  • Tawreos

    You have nothing but the bible to go on. And just for future reference, you are making the claim so you need to back it up, not the other way around.

  • Nea

    Before the various cultures took shape, we are given the Written Word.

    Citation needed. Please make sure the citation explains pre-Christian religious monuments and writing.

    I can and did provide you that God chose to reveal Himself in the male gender

    Citation needed; you made an assertion. Please cover the lack of a plural gender in Hebrew while explaining how Genesis 1:27 (made in God’s image… male and female) upholds your assertion. Also explain all nonhuman aspects of revelation (burning bushes, etc.)

    I think the onus is on you to show

    Nope. Your assertions, you prove ‘em.

  • Nea

    What gender is a burning bush? Your assertions only work when you blatantly cherrypick your own source material!

  • Friend

    Really? There were scrolls and tablets before there were cultures? Thank you for the laugh.

    Before the various cultures took shape , we are given the Written Word.

  • Nea

    It’s the same think Westboro Baptist “Church” preaches.

    Frankly, I think that of Lori loves sowing this kind of hatred, she would have the same ending as Fred Phelps did – victim of a coup, alone, cut off from his family and disowned by his own church. Or she can go like Debi will – her provider unable to provide, leaving her to scrap as she can with the fading glory of a disgraced movement.

    Lori thinks widows should live off church charity. She would rapidly learn the meaning of the phrase “cold as charity.”

  • Friend

    Hey everybody, today we have a troll on board our otherwise lovely ship. I’m reading it as third-rate cruise ship comedy, but not everyone will feel that way.

  • Nea

    So.. wait… NOW you’re going to argue that female is created in God’s image while arguing that god’s image is solely male? You’re really going to contradict yourself in a thread this tiny and hope it’s not noticed?

  • msb

    The truth =/= Your opinion.
    Yes, it’s really sad, isn’t it, that Rachel Held Evans is dead in the flower of her life and creativity.

  • Nea

    It would help if your evidence included a schoolchild’s grasp of mammalian evolution. “This book written after the determination of gender proves the existence of a created gender” is not all that strong an assertion for “Look! Gender is a thing!”

    It’s like people insisting that human existence on Earth proves divine intervention. “Carbon-based life exists on planet that can support carbon-based life!” is not the “gotcha” argument it’s proponents think it is.

  • Nea

    I’m amusing myself, at least.

  • Tawreos

    Third-rate? Someone is being generous this morning. =)

  • Friend

    First-rate cruise ship comedy is already fifth-rate…

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Did you even bother to read our comment policy before posting here? I think not. You’ve already violated willfully a pile of rules. Welcome to Jerks 4 Jesus and shuffle off back to your cult. Anyone using the Bible as a cudgel is not welcome here.

  • Maddog

    So you believe that writing predates human culture? Or merely the Bible? If the Bible predates human cultures, then why does the Bible seem to be written in response to deeds done by human cultures?

    “we are speaking of the Creator that existed outside of our time.”

    So YHVH no longer exists? Is this what you mean to say?

    American western culture is a barbarian border land in so many ways. The best culture is Magadhi culture.

    “if you cannot present it, then it does not exist”
    Since I cannot present definitive evidence that Christianity is true, according to your own words, no definitive evidence that Christianity is true exists. Are you sure that you want to make what I cannot present the arbiter of what exists? is this not your conforming to the world?

    As for YHVH presenting as female, two examples:

    1. The Divine Wisdom is female, as the bible records.

    2. Matthew 23:37 has Jesus comparing himself to a mother hen.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    You are very off topic. Please get back on topic or go elsewhere. The subject matter is not if people and God are male and female but the death of Rachel Held Evans. Please be respectful or you will be banned.

  • Ldon

    Elca ask me to post this since he was banned.
    I did not realized that the Bible is not welcome here on this site. And no i did not read the comment policy.
    Truly the Word of God is sharp cutting away pride and exposing sin by those who are ofended by the Written Word the Truth the way and life.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Welcome to banned too. This is a recovery site for those harmed by extreme religions. This is highly inappropriate for here. And be forewarned I will ban each one he sends in here and mock you on Jerks 4 Jesus.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Interesting you have similar ip addresses and gmail addies

  • Tawreos

    It’s almost like they think that if they assert one more thing then we will all “get it” and follow them right back to religion. What a sad little closed off world they live in. =(

  • Friend

    Thanks for defending survivors, Suzanne. I want to challenge the knowing pretense that the Bible is banned on NLQ, since I have quoted it more than a few times here myself. Here are a few of many verses with images of God in the Bible—female, animal, mineral—collected by a Catholic group called the Women’s Ordination Conference: https://www.womensordination.org/resources/female-images-of-god-in-the-bible/

    Hosea 13:8 God described as a mother bear
    “Like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will attack them and tear them asunder…”

    Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth
    “You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.”

    Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother
    God: “As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”

    Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen
    Jesus: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!”

  • LastManOnEarth

    God’s boo Asherah got fridged.

  • bekabot

    Gee, no wonder He’s so angsty.

  • Jennny

    What is unacceptable here are religious folk like yourselves who have the arrogant desire to put us right because they, and only they, Know The Truth. Most of us here have unshackled ourselves from the chains of the faith that once held us captive. We are now free indeed.
    Hint: Hello! We’ve all read the bible, possibly more than you have. We studied it, hold theological qualifications in it and then, with extreme reluctance in many cases, realised it was all a fiction. Why would we return to belief when, to take today’s example, some of your fellow cultists are posting such despicable,spiteful comments about a talented writer, wife and mother of 2 little ones who has died so tragically young. If I did ever reconvert, would I have to become as nasty as that because that bronze-age book of yours, the bible, says to do so? I hold myself to higher standards of basic human decency than that.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    They think it’s banned, never realizing I even quote it here, I go to church and am still a Christian. Their own desire to tell others what to do is more important to them than any amount of behaving like Jesus. Modern day pharisee.

  • Friend

    I believe they pretend it’s banned, so they can simultaneously troll and discredit. Sort of like kicking God and/or prayer out of public schools: it’s impossible to do, but people like to shriek about it.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    They never seem to understand that as long as there are surprise pop quizzes in chemistry and algebra there will always be prayer in school.

  • Friend

    Annnnnd they like to say that God is everywhere and God knows everything. So which is it?

  • We are unoffended by truth.

    You don’t have any to offer, however.

    Do p|$š off, now.

  • SAO

    Elca said, of his beliefs, “you can accept it or reject it.” Many of us reject your beliefs. My guess is your error was not accepting that we reject your “Truth”. You were unwilling to accept that there’s a whole range of opinion out there, from committed Christians who don’t agree with a lot of your theology (or “Truth”) to atheists who reject the whole Christian myth.

    But, instead of engaging on the topic at hand– RHE and Lori’s blog’s comments about her– you trolled by assuming that push-back on your assertions was denial of God.

  • bekabot

    Not to mention that ‘Ldon’ (‘Eldon’) sounds quite a bit like ‘Elca’ (Elkar?
    Elkhart?) — what a coincidence, hunh.

  • msb

    Look in the mirror. What you see is not God but God’s image. Learn the difference.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Why should we listen to authoritarian nonsense with zero basis in fact?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I don’t believe your ‘bible’, OR *you*.

    Demonstrate it or recant.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Because your nasty-assed authoritarian hate is unwelcome to those of us who escaped it.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I DON’T BELIEVE YOU.

    Demonstrate that nonsense.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    ‘Having something’ worthless is WORSE than having nothing and seeking honestly.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Before the various cultures took shape

    That would surprise the Babylonians, the Indians, and the Chinese, for starters…

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I don’t believe you.

    Convince me.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Hmmm, dunno…but they DO have an ointment for that now!

    (sry, couldn’t resist ;-)……….)

  • Saraquill

    Does Lori even go to church? I though she was all about making crap up, not being Christian.

  • Nea

    It would involve her leaving the house, which seems to be an issue with her.

  • Nea

    I was asking direct biblical questions, and noticing that they couldn’t stop preaching long enough to defend either their own argument or their own source.

  • Know Kname

    What’s “disgraceful, disrespectful and disgusting” is your attempt at mind-reading to deduce that Lori is happy that Rachel is dead and burning in Hell.

  • What about El Shadda, the Breast One? Like a mother hen gathers her chicks or like the eagle stirs the nest to get her chicks to fly? What of the female gender of the Holy Spirit in Hebrew?

  • Anthropomorohize much?

  • Jennifer Fields

    I was saddened but not surprised by Lori’s post. I did not grow up in a Christian household and my parents always warned me about ppl like Lori since I had some born again friends at school that told me that my family would burn in hell. I did feel God calling though and converted to Catholism several years ago as an adult. I do feel there are more good-hearted people of faith than not, including Rachel Held Evans and I do strongly agree with Christ’s teachings and refuse to abandon my faith because people like TTW give Christians a bad name.

  • Mel

    Of course Lori is being hateful over Rachel Held Evan’s death.

    Everyone agrees that Ms. Held and her husband loved each other. I question how much love has ever been present in Lori and Ken’s marriage.

    The Evanes waited to conceive their children until both parties were ready. Lori conceived her second child by sabotaging her birth control so that she could “obey” Ken’s mandate that she continue working until she had a second child. (Hence, my questions about how much love is in that marriage).

    Rachel Held Evans published four books before age 37 through actual Christian publishing houses. Lori’s self-published one book.

    Rachel Held Evans managed to support, hearten and show care for many, many people and that is why so many people are mourning her tragic death.

    I’ve never heard a serious argument of Rachel Held Evan’s being hypocritical unlike Lori whose lifestyle has been supported by the advanced education of her husband and sons while she decries advanced education for the children of her blog followers.

    My heart breaks for her family especially her children – but Rachel Held Evans lived her life fully while she was here. Lori could learn a lot from her.

    Because, Lori – you suck. The traditional response to a death is to pray for the repose of a person’s soul. I’ve never had a problem with that but I suppose Lori might try to pray that God’s Mercy outweigh God’s Justice since she’s convinced RHE is in hell. But the next step for Lori would be to pray for forgiveness of the sin of thinking herself to know the mind of God….and Lori’s nowhere near that level of humility.

  • Mel

    Well, she could prove us wrong in 30 seconds by deleting the hateful comments by her followers. After all, most of us have access to her chat room. Since she’s not moderating their comments – or even discussing why their reaction is both inappropriate and unchristian – she leaves the impression that she’s favor of hating on the dead like a cartoon villain.

    Plus, she’s letting her exceptionally weak understanding of theology shine through when she places limits on God by proclaiming that God has only male attributes.

  • This might be my all time favorite NLQ comment of sarcasm.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    It would make a dandy t-shirt

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Welcome to Jerks 4 Jesus~! Squealll!!! I saw her original comments she has since erased.

  • Joanna Chen

    Being raised Buddhist/Taoist as a kid, I was taught that gods were male, female, sometimes both. Check out Bodhisattva, he’s sometimes depicted as a man and sometimes as a woman. I wonder if Christians will freak out when they find out about a sexually ambiguous god. LOL

  • Jennifer

    Men have spoken about raping their wives on her page??

  • Ann Nienow Bowen

    I understand that reference!

  • Jennifer

    The ironic thing is, I heard Phelps was cut off because he was lecturing the rising leaders in his church to be kinder to other members. Haters don’t jive with that.

  • Jennifer

    That’s one of the best and most reassuring posts I’ve read all day 🙂

  • Jennifer

    Wow. Deep!

  • Jennifer

    May I quote you?

  • Jennifer

    How DO you trace people’s IP addresses?

  • You do know that there’s a fungi that has 20,000 different genders, right? God has one crazy sense of humor, doesn’t “he”?

  • Delilah Hart

    Regardless of what Lori or her followers might like to think, there’s no righteousness where there is no compassion or empathy. They’re nothing short of vile!

  • Allison the Great

    I know for a fact that you would be less than happy if we were to barge in on your bible studies and start handing out pamphlets on global warming, socialized medicine, and the gloriousness of Archer and Bob’s Burgers. You would see such an act as being incredibly disrespectful (you’d be right) and you’d whine about persecution (which you’d be wrong about). So if you wouldn’t tolerate such behavior from us, why should we have to tolerate it from you?

  • Allison the Great

    Well to be fair, us reading passages from Harry Potter or His Dark Materials would be frowned upon if we disrupted your bible studies to do so. So if we’re not allowed to to invite ourselves to your Sunday school classes or whatever you people do, why shouldn’t we expect our discussions to be no-go zones for bible thumpers? Why do you get to be so disrespectful of us, but are then shocked, I tell you SHOCKED when we tell you to get lost? Just so you know, I’m trying to introduce you to a concept called empathy.

  • msb

    Sure. I’ll bet I’m not the first to say it.

  • Nea

    If I’m understanding the reports correctly, the “other member” to be kinder to was his daughter, who was his second in command (and potentially favorite). However, as one of Westboro’s other core beliefs states that women should STFU and submit, the daughter has been silenced and put on the back burner by her own husband and son, and the Fred got the push for lack of doctrinal purity.

    That’s a lesson taught in blood from before the French revolution that Lori has yet to grasp – the people who bang on the most about the importance of adhering to doctrinal purity are the ones most likely to be driven out or even executed for not upholding their own standards well enough.

    ETA: especially as there is factual evidence of Lori’s many, many ways of not practicing what she preaches, from “do everything in your house yourself” to “dress modestly.”

  • Nea

    Rachel Held Evans published four books before age 37 through actual
    Christian publishing houses. Lori’s self-published one book.

    I’m willing to bet cash money that this rankles Lori far more than RHE having been progressive.

  • CGM3

    One of my favorite lines from the old WKRP in Cincinnati series is, when Johnny Fever, after a brush with possible death, asks Bailey Quarters to tell him about God, and she responds, “Well, first of all, She’s black…”

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Simple. When they post here Disqus notes everyone’s ip address, mine, yours, theirs. 99.99% of the time I never look at them, but when someone rude and nasty shows up I look, mostly because we sometimes have repeat offenders lurking under a variety of names. It is helpful if you can see it’s just Jeff in NYC coming in for the millionth time to be a jerk.

  • GeckoShamelessRaceMixer

    If he made them in his image and he made them male and female then why is he limited to male?

  • SAO

    A sample size of 2 is meaningless. That you are male and your wife is female says something about 2 people, but not much about the 7 or so billion on this planet. This is why many of us think intellect and science are a far better foundation of knowledge than a book written in the Iron Age, or even, if that’s what you believe, a book written for Iron Age Middle Easterners.

  • Allison the Great

    Goddammit, Jeff!

  • Michael Inglis

    I’m assuming you’re referring to Avalokiteshvara, who is depicted as female in East Asia but was originally depicted as male (and still is in Tibet). I visited a museum dedicated to Guan Yin in Japan, which had depictions of around 30 of Her forms, some of which were male.

    I am a Buddhist and am devoted to Guan Yin, and also Tara, the Mother and wisdom of all the Buddhas.

  • paganheart

    I seem to recall that they do the “home church” thing, because they can’t find a church that is “biblical enough” for them (or else they can’t find a church that will let Lori teach women to be as miserable as she is.)

  • Delilah Hart

    If I were a Christian, I would wonder if RHE had been called home early because God needs her.

  • It actually would be impossible and contrary to the analogy of being for a creator to make something that was outside of their own realm. The creation is never greater than the creator. It cannont be. If God made both male and female, God had to be the source of both creations. The creator always transcends and superceeds and preceeds the essence of their creation.

    That’s why Azimov was so provocative in his writing about AI. The creation exceeds that which the creator possesses. It does not happen.

  • Ruthitchka

    It’s quite audacious to say that so-and-so is going to hell because of his/her “heretical beliefs”. In poor taste, also! If God is really THAT picky, we are all going to hell, because each one of us probably has something wrong about God. I am 100% certain I do not have Christianity “totally correct”. I am hopeful that God is far less picky than we egotistical humans are.

    I have already experienced hell on earth a few times, but am hoping not to experience more of it after I die.

  • Ruthitchka

    Wow. I’d heard it was so they wouldn’t have to pay his medical bills, but I like your explanation much better!

  • Jennifer

    Yeah I understood that one of the biggest new jerks, Steve Drain, was eager for leadership, which included snapping at other members’ ways of doing things and keeping women behind. Last I heard he was trying to shove his way forward, and Shirley Phelps and some older primary members were getting pushed back. Shirley could be tough as nails, but she usually wasn’t happy about banning someone from the church and grieved terribly for her own kids’ leaving. Steve, on the other hand, eagerly shoved his oldest daughter out of the church and practically bragged about it in a documentary. The level of coldness in that church dropped about ten degrees after Fred’s death. Ironies never end, huh?

  • Jennifer

    Oh wow. Can people without Disqus do this? It’d be helpful to me to know if the same weird males keep friending me on Facebook.

  • Jennifer

    Thanks!

  • MuttsRule

    I remember the fundagelical reaction to Brittany Maynard’s death (she was the 29-year-old woman with incredibly painful, terminal brain cancer who moved to Oregon to end her life on her own terms). They were writing that she was burning in hell (gloating in their hypocrtical “it-gives-me-no-pleasure-but” way). What horrible people. If there were more Christians like Rachel Held Evans and Jimmy Carter, there would be more Christians.

  • Lisa M

    If Rachel had been a strong complementarian, she’d have been praised by sentiments like, “God wanted her home! Her work on earth was finished”. But since she disagreed with them she is blasted. Very telling. How awful.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    No interactions between Disqus and Facebook unless you purposely link the two.

  • Ellen D.

    And then there’s this lovely person right here on patheos’ Evangelical channel:

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/preventingrace/2019/05/05/death-in-eastertide/

    You have to read that post in its entirety to comprehend exactly how horrible it is.

  • Nea

    I’m sure that saving money was the icing on the cake, but if they actually cared, they’d find a way to pay wouldn’t they?

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Disgusting. Preventing Grace is an appropriate title indeed.

  • Ellen D.

    I’m sure there’s a Calvinistic explanation for that title, which I won’t bother edumacating myself about because…feh. Whatever.

    Don’t miss her follow up post, in which Mrs. Kennedy explains to us that her initial post wasn’t just written in a jealous snit because she knows deep down her own eventual passing won’t be mourned the way Ms. Evan’s was, but actually has some real theological underpinnings, because clearly God, who is totally a dude, hates the idea of anyone being anything other than straight complementarian heterosexual. It says so in the Bible.

    Whatever.

  • persephone

    Which truth? Which of the over 40,000 sects of Christianity is the truth?

  • persephone

    They’ve been popping up on Twitter, and, thankfully, getting roundly roasted by the commentariat.

  • persephone

    I don’t remember any copies of the Bible being found at Gobekli Tepe.

  • Jennifer

    Yup. Timing must have been convenient, esp for people who declare so much as God’s doing.

  • persephone

    Christian forgiveness is much more complicated, as spelled out by Paul, than modern Christianity states. We’ve come to confuse forgiveness with the idea of letting go of anger and moving on. Real forgiveness required that the abuser show remorse and make it up to the victim. Then the victim had the choice to forgive or not. There was no badgering the victim to forgive.

    I’m no longer Christian. I use the word forgive very carefully. Mostly, I just let things go. The Serenity Prayer does mean something to me, because you have to recognize how much good or ill your choices and feelings are making in your life. I often tell people that I forgive, but I don’t forget. It’s simple language that people understand.

  • persephone

    Yes. They believe that men have the absolute right to the use of their wives’ bodies, whenever and however. Lori brushed it off as 10 minutes and lube.

  • Jennifer

    Yes, and there are two things people can overlook: one, forgiving someone doesn’t have to mean keeping them involved in your life. And two, forgiving and loving are both actions as well as feelings. Christ offers His love to everyone but repentance is required. Someone pointed out He forgave the men on the crosses next to Him, and my reminder is yes, He loved them. But they were still required to repent.

    It’s a terrible shame humans can mess things up, sometimes understandably because people and feelings are very complicated. Forgiveness and redemption are such beautiful things, full of hope, but we have to recognize when relationships are toxic and when people can really start again.

  • Jennifer

    Yeah, Farrakhan and some others got banned. Maybe she’s not far off! I mean, she’s TRULY toxic and dangerous; Facebook needs to know this.

  • Jennifer

    I can’t believe men actually admitted this on a public page, and that any woman would allow that (on her page).

  • persephone

    We’re not offended by the truth. Many people here are Christians, despite abuse they have endured from those claiming to be Christians and speaking for God. Many of us are ex-Christians. The bible and truth don’t scare us in the least, because we know that the bible isn’t a sacred tome containing God’s word. We know that you don’t have the truth, because Christians have over 40,000 sects, and when they’re not arguing with non-Christians, they’re arguing about who’s right with each other.

    You choose to live in fear of the imaginary.

  • Zeldacat

    I am (somewhat, anyway, it’s complicated) and disagree – though I see where you’re coming from. We need people like her here to combat toxic Christianity. Very sadly (especially for her kids, my dad died young, my heart goes out to them) a shitty thing happened to her.

  • Astreja

    The hard part will be demonstrating that her screeds are putting people or groups of people in harm’s way. If all FB sees is suboptimal relationship advice, it may not be enough.

  • (((J_Enigma32)))

    Welcome to the Internet. That and worse happens all the time here.

  • Raging Bee

    Wow, your comment’s even less coherent than the Bible!

  • Raging Bee

    And for bonus horribility points, read Leigh Ann’s comment in response to someone gently defending Held. Both of my comments there are automatically “held in moderation” (guess my reputation precedes me), and the first one is now gone, as I’m sure the second will be too.

  • Jennifer

    Yeah, I’ve seen horrific crap. I just don’t usually expect it to be allowed on the page of a woman who claims to love Christ.

  • Sarah Flood

    Well, Jesus compared himself to a mother hen longing to gather the wayward of Jerusalem under his cloak, and there are a few passages in OT prophets where the love of God is compared to the love of a mother. I think the takeaway is that while God’s primary biblical presentation is male, God is completely comfortable with the role of mother in the lives of his followers. Because otherwise one must argue that despite the fundamentalist horror at single parents, God is a single male parent and Christians have no heavenly mother.

  • Sarah Flood

    “But I am male and my wife is female. What other evidence do I need?” Um. Well. That would make an interesting theology among, say, polygynists. Apparently, for me, God is 40 years old, tall, and has a penchant for pacing the room while he talks, because that describes my husband? I’m really not sure what you’re driving at here.

  • Sarah Flood

    And you know what? I (and I presume others here) still wouldn’t show up on forums where people were mourning her (for whatever reason) and act all gleeful. It’s not other people’s fault that Lori is a hateful crud, and even the worst people generally have a person or two around who genuinely mourn them when they die. Those people don’t deserve to be harassed in their moment of grief.

  • Sarah Flood

    That’s the fundamentalist way. “Let your husband rape you; it’s your duty of “due benevolence”. As long as you aren’t in excruciating pain, surely you can bear it for a few minutes!”

  • Sarah Flood

    I mean, she could just say, “I am saddened about Rachel’s death and am praying for her family. My heart goes out to those grieving the passing of a loved one,” and like most normal people, leave it at that. Allowing her followers to be downright gleeful about the idea of her burning in hell while never writing a sincere expression of condolences herself (and should could just be quiet) speaks volumes.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Now she’s removed it all and is claiming it never happened.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I left a condemning comment.

    Let’s see if it gets ‘approved’.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Uh, being blunt: as a Catholic by choice, you are supporting an organization that has, and still DOES, promote & hide authoritarian abuse to the point of child rape, rape of women who’ve dedicated themselves to being ‘brides of christ’, genocide (look up the Albigensians and other ‘heretics’ and how they were treated)

    IMHO, YMMV, etc.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Surprise, surprise!

    🙁

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Read and learn psychology.

    Eventually you’ll understand the meaning of the word ‘projection’ in a psychological context.

    Because your comment, and the fake / bravado ‘certainty’ obviously underlying it, is a textbook example.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Maybe it would be accurate to say that uncharitable, purposely hurtful (in that such words allow the writer to glorify themselves at the expense of their intended victims) and unsupported claims are banned?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Sounds like a quote I’ve heard:

    Once is happenstance

    Twice is coincidence

    The third time it’s enemy action.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Based on Dogma, I thought ‘god’ was Alanis Morissette?

    😉

  • Ellen D.

    Yeah, she vaporized your comments, though she did let a few others through that were gently critical of the OP and/or comments. In all fairness my vaporized comments were a bit more…spittle-flecked, shall we say, than the ones she posted.

    Re: Leigh Ann’s comment: Ah, a clobber-texter and scare-quoter with a mean streak, who apparently has trouble with people who are troubled by biblical passages about a flat and stationary earth, slavery, and polygamy. That’s an acceptable comment. Comments from people who are legitimately angry about some truly awful blogging…not so much.