Quoting Quiverfull: Parents Create Fat, Lazy, Rebellious Kids?

Quoting Quiverfull: Parents Create Fat, Lazy, Rebellious Kids? October 18, 2017

Lori Alexanders Brainby Lori Alexander from The Transformed Wife – Raising the Most Overweight Addicted Medicated Generation in History

Editor’s note: This article was all over the internet like pink eye in an elementary school last year. I’ve seen it not just at Country Living, it was published at Redbook, Woman’s Day and countless other media sources. The article makes a good point on how to get good behavior on a consistent basis, but yet again Lori misunderstands what is actually being said here. Nowhere in the piece does it mention fat-shaming children at all! There is also no mention of creating addictions in children or medicating. Complete reading for understanding failure mixed with her own personal deranged issues.

On another note: You might have noticed that NLQ went dark with no new published posts for most of the month of October. I’m sorry that had to happen but I was caught without electricity or internet for the first part of the month due to Hurricane Nate hitting Costa Rica and just tearing the place up. The roads here are still in sad shape in some places but the electricity is back on. While dealing with this we got word that my husband’s mother had become gravely ill, meaning in the midst of hurricane wreckage we had to immediately leave for Texas. My mother in law passed before we got there. It was a four day journey from our home in Tamarindo to the States involving puddle jumper planes, sleeping in airports and other hardships that left little or no time for an update here. I am resuming regular posting schedule now that I am back at my home.

Country Living did an article called Why Parents Today Aren’t Strict Enough“Children were treated like pets or — worse — release-valves for their parents’ stresses and fears, then expected to magically transform into healthy, functional adults. Which is why we’re the most overweight, addicted, medicated generation in history.”

I visited with a neighbor yesterday who raised one son. He was never given any boundaries. He ate what he wanted, when he wanted, watched what he wanted, and went to bed when he wanted. He is in high school now and she is ashamed of him. He has brought so much pain and suffering into their lives. She looked at me and said, “You did it right. You were black and white parents; ‘yes’ meant ‘yes’ and ‘no’ meant ‘no.’ We were gray parents and we are now paying the price.”

We raised our children with a lot of boundaries. We were considered strict parents. They didn’t get to choose what and when they ate, what they watched, and when they went to bed. We decided these for them when they were young. I made most of their food from scratch and made sure they ate a lot of fruits, vegetables, and healthy foods. They weren’t allowed to watch much television but spent a lot of time outside playing and reading, instead. They were given clear boundaries and disciplined for disobedience. Child raising was a pleasure for us but it took a lot of time and energy when they were very young. It became easier as they got older.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Anonyme

    Keep on patting yourself on the back, Lori. :/

  • SAO

    Yeah, boundaries are important, but so is flexibility. Boundaries that are too restricting can be worse than boundaries that are too flimsy or non-existent.

  • AFo

    Most parents don’t fall onto either extreme end of the spectrum though. Most are somewhere in the middle in terms of how strict they are. Also, responding to every instance of “disobedience” in the same way is counter-productive. Context and discretion matter. It’s the same reason across the board “zero tolerance” policies in schools are such failures. If the kid beating another kid to a pulp and a kid caught with two aspirin in her purse are both automatically suspended for x amount of days, (or, in Lori-world, if the one who steals a piece of candy and the one caught drinking get the same beating), what exactly are they learning?

  • Tawreos

    I am sorry to hear about your loss and am glad that you made it back safely.

    As for Lori, this conversation is a little to self serving to be believable when she tells it.

  • Almost a chimp

    She probably does, just not with the paddles or plumbers’ pipes she used to ‘pat’ her children with (though one never knows what Mr & Mrs Puritan enjoy behind closed doors).
    A very telling statement (emph. mine) They were given clear boundaries and disciplined for disobedience. Child raising was a pleasure for us.. Disturbingly honest!

    And welcome back, Suzanne. My condolences for the loss of your mother-in-law. As for the rest of your travails, one can only marvel at your persistence, determination, and fortitude. Certainly not the welcome to your new home you’d have wanted, but what a story; one certain to become part of your family’s history for future generations to marvel at.

  • Almost a chimp

    That they have terrible parents?

  • Almost a chimp

    Aren’t all of Lori’s tales?

  • Annerdr

    I am continually annoyed by parenting advice that treats all ages the same. I set a bedtime for my child until he started high school and pushed back on it. I choose what he ate until he could tell me what he wanted, and then we worked together to get him foods he wanted and a healthy diet. By high school, he ate whatever he wanted whenever, but he knew the difference between healthy and unhealthy foods and managed a balance. We had relatively few rules and important reasons for all of them. By the time he was old enough to understand that all of my rules existed solely for his benefit, I rarely had to discipline him.

    Discipline was the least of parenting for me, but is the only thing that parenting advice seems to focus on. The best advice I ever read? Stay up until midnight at least once a week because that is when teenagers really want to talk to you about their lives. It worked beautifully and the increased connection with my teen was well worth the sleepy day the next day.

  • Almost a chimp

    Ah, crap! At the linked post on Lori’s blog a commenter by the name of ‘submissive’ includes this in (presumably) her sanctimonious and ill-informed piece of holier-than-holyism (emph. mine);

    So in return we see broken homes, children doped up on vaccinations and medications that they don’t need,

    Doped up on vaccinations they don’t need? How fucking ignorant selfish, dangerous, and in my opinion criminally negligent are these people?
    Yes, I accept that some children are over-medicated (I personally have experience of parents self-diagnosing their kids, especially in areas such as ADHD and Aspergers when the kids are merely over- ((rather than hyper-)) active or simply plain, old-fashioned naughty, and browbeating doctors into prescribing meds the kids didn’t need because doping them was easier than actually parenting them.)*
    However, vaccinations are essential not only for their own kids’ health but for that of all the people they come into contact with, especially babies too young to have been vaccinated, and the elderly or ill with already-weakened immune systems.

    There has NEVER been a case of prayer curing polio, measles, rubella, mumps, or any of the infectious diseases which were all but eradicated in the developed world owing to vaccinations, but which are appearing again as these ill-informed idiots decide that they, or their pastors, or the Lori’s of this world know better than qualified medical professionals.
    No, prayer doesn’t cure them, but because of people such as ‘submissive’, it is responsible for causing potentially lethal outbreaks of them.

    Sorry about the rant but the anti-vaxxer mob really make my blood boil.

    *please note that I’m not dismissing the conditions themselves, my problem is with using them as a handy label because it’s easier for the parents to blame the kids than to accept their own shortcomings and failings.

    Edit to add; another commenter is both envious and impressed that Amish children have their free-will broken at a remarkably young age.
    Jealous of the efficiency of superior child-abusers. That’s like Trump being jealous of Hitler (yes, I know the punchline writes itself).

  • Annerdr

    Maaaan, I remember being so high on vaccinations! I don’t even know what crazy stuff I did after all those vaccinations. I had to take some meth to come down.

    EDIT: Don’t worry. The meth was GMO free.

  • texassa

    Everything these people write is dripping in judgment, blame, and superiority. I truly have never read anything from one of these “fundie posts” that had a tone of love or humility. What garbage, hypocrite people.

  • Raging Bee

    Okay then.

  • Cryny

    Go big or go home?

  • SAO

    Yes, context matters. When I was told my teen swore at a teacher, told him to “#%$% off” I thought it was so out of character that I asked what happened. I gave her a few tips for coping with frustration, rather than lecturing her.

    When my son got in trouble for kicking other kids, I asked what was wrong. It turned out that that year, rumor had it that it was traditional to pinch someone who didn’t wear green on St. Patrick’s Day. My son got pinched all day long and he even kicked a pincher in the principal’s office, where he and the other boy sent for fighting. It was the only time my son ever was in trouble for violence. I helped him write a strong letter to the teacher, the principal and the school director. He got apologies back.

    Again, the lesson was how to deal with a situation that is making you unhappy. Because both were good kids who only acted out when really frustrated about the situation they were in.

  • smrnda

    I thought the modern parenting sin was helicopter parenting? The whole not just strict but never letting a kid make their own decisions and then as adults they can’t handle independence? Plenty of kids with ‘strict’ parents screw up once there’s nobody to tell them what to do.

  • smrnda

    ‘Zero tolerance’ also tends to make schools a bit more like prisons, where the goal becomes ‘how can we deliver the most punishment for the least transgressions?’ It also refuses to look into the whys of behavior, or it encourages the adult authority figures to gradually expand what is considered ‘wrong.’

  • Aloha

    I’m just glad to know that you’re OK, Suzanne. I think we were all worried about you!

  • persephone

    There are a few things that we are black and white on, but so much of life is context, that nearly everything is gray. I’ve got two great kids. No drugs, no drinking, no partying, no late nights out, working and/or in school, and did it without beating them. Amazing, isn’t it.

  • AuntKaylea

    The more I read of Lori, the more I realize that her fundamental problem is that she advocates a “one-size-fits-all” approach to all human relationships. (marriage/parent-child/humankind-God). The problem is, of course, that this simply will not work.

  • Daffodil

    One of the reasons I take parenting advice with a grain of salt is because it always seems to be globalist. “This is how you parent kids – all kids.” There is never any consideration for differing personalities of the children within a family. What works for one does not necessarily work for them all. While I was still a Christian, I used spanking briefly. I say briefly because I quit almost as soon as I started. My daughter could not possibly care less if I spanked her. She didn’t cry and it didn’t fix any problems. My son was so sensitive, one swat on the hand or rear and he completely fell apart as if I had literally broken his heart! This was our first inkling that our kids were polar opposites in personality. My daughter is highly self-sufficient and self-regulating. She voluntarily limits herself on junk food, screen time, etc. My son requires a lot more regulation from us and would easily fall into lazy, junk food eating, playing video games all day if we didn’t stay on top of him. Parenting advice rarely encourages parents to really learn who their kids are and adjust their parenting accordingly.

  • katiehippie

    Mine stays up all night and then I get a barrage of questions when I get up in the morning. I let him talk because he’s talking to me.

  • Lucy

    Another thing that annoys me is that parenting magazines and other such publications often tell you nothing about how to strike a happy medium between complete lack of discipline and discipline that is so strict that it risks being abusive to a subset of the population, particularly when you take into account that kids who are not neurotypical or are disabled in some other way often end up on the receiving end of such discipline, particularly if they are undiagnosed and the parent refuses to believe they have the condition. And also, it never occurs to people that often developmentally disabled kids are held to higher disciplinary standards than any child should be, so you get things like meltdowns being equated with tantrums or kids with ADHD being punished for bad grades as though they were neurotypical.

    It’s also kind of funny (in a not-amorous way) how many sensible parenting suggestions are largely absent from parenting magazines, suggestions that are in the middle between strict discipline (which, again, applied blanketly, risks being abusive to a subset of children, particularly when you take into account undiagnosed disabilities and trauma) and complete lack of discipline, which equally does nothing to stop abuse and instead often passes the buck of abuse to that children’s children instead of the kid themselves.

    Such as this suggestion which is in that happy medium: when it’s time to get rid of toys, have a Keep box, a Give Away box, and a Throw Away/Recycle box, have the kid organize the toys, anything in the Keep box they keep, broken things they throw out/recycle (if it is possible to recycle some of them), and things they don’t care about are Give Away, and everything they keep has to fit into a designated space, so the kids aren’t able to keep everything. When you do that, kids tend to cull their toys on their own. Without one needing to sneak the toys out without warning or punish the kid into submission or even dangle a reward in front of the kid. And if a kid is having trouble culling, helping them evaluate which toys to keep is a good idea, particularly ones that aren’t their most beloved toys (i.e. asking them how often they play with them, whatnot) and making it clear that even if they say they want all their toys, some have to give because they don’t have enough space.

  • Lucy

    Honestly, that pinching tradition needs to take a flying leap. Teachers should have put a stop to it and told the kids not to do it. Not suspending or other such things, just lectures and maybe a light consequence (i.e. apology letter, detention, time-out) if it continues.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I didn’t strangle my hated sister in law even if she was being super annoying and has taken over the planning of the memorial service and that was a big thing. I consider that a huge victory for me! Thank the heavens for tequila!

  • Annerdr

    Try staying up really late sometime. My son and I had the most in depth talks from midnight to 1:00 am, when he would finally be tired.

  • Debbie Holt

    Yep, they sure are!

  • Jennny

    Yep, i’ve said this before, if god wanted such a narrow conformity, why create a world full of difference? As a gardener, I marvel at the varieties of, say, shrubs I can grow. Why didn’t he just create one, say, Lilac, if he didn’t like diversity. Why not make every human a standard size, shape and colour? Why create the brain with its infinite complexity and forbid us (wimin especially) from using it other than in slavery to constant pregnancy and to men.

  • Almost a chimp

    Yep, i’ve said this before, if god wanted such a narrow conformity, why create a world full of difference?

    Well, why go to the trouble of creating Hell if He didn’t give us wrong choices to make so He can send us there?
    Even God needs to find ways to amuse Himself.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Re: “…if the one who steals a piece of candy and the one caught drinking get the same beating), what exactly are they learning?…”

    May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

  • Astrin Ymris
  • katiehippie

    I don’t sleep well as it is, I don’t want to be up at midnight.

  • rumpledtulip

    Yes, glad you’re okay and sorry for your troubles. I was a little worried!

  • rumpledtulip

    Also never seen: compassion or empathy.

  • BridgetD

    How exactly does one get “doped up” on vaccinations? I feel like I missed out…:-P.

    No worries, I am completely with you when it comes to the anti-vax crowd.

  • BridgetD

    No kidding. I’ve known several kids with overly strict parents go completely wild in college.

  • I agree that kids need boundaries and (simple) rules. We need them as adults, too, we’re just supposed to be, like, able to negotiate them. Somehow.

    However, I suspect that Lori and I have very different ideas on where to set those boundaries, what those rules are, and what the consequences of breaking the rules ought to be.

  • “Don’t get caught!”