Do Not Marry Unless You Are Prepared to Have Children Like a Holy Pez Dispenser?

Do Not Marry Unless You Are Prepared to Have Children Like a Holy Pez Dispenser? May 31, 2019

 

We haven’t taken a look at Nancy Campbell’s webpage Above Rubies in quite some time. Most of the articles are on the same theme as always – Embrace Motherhood or Be happy in your role as a mother. Interestingly Nancy is also repeating a new one – get married young. She seems to waffle on exactly how young, stating in some pieces that young Jewish men in the time of Jesus married shortly after their bar mitzvah, or in some other articles making 18 years old seem like the ideal age for men and women to marry.

Then Nancy comes out with this one – if you’re not prepared to start having babies like some folks collect Beanie Babies you have no business getting married. She states several times that having babies is the real goal of marriage, more than anything else.

Not companionship, not love, not any other reason but babies, babies, babies. Nancy also warns that if you bother to put off marriage or babies until you are finished with school and financially settled that it just might be too late. She thinks, like Lori Alexander and others, that the fertility might quickly flee.

Which is rich considering that Nancy only has six children, clearly she was not following the ideas of Quiverfull she teaches any more than Debi Pearl or Lori Alexander. Neither of which have huge numbers of kids either. Are there any Quiverfull superstars besides Michelle Duggar that actually genuinely took the mandate to heart and had an entire houseful of kids? I’m not seeing it. Another case of do as I say, not as I do I guess.

Here’s what Nancy said about marriage being primarily for purposes of having children:

Therefore, a young couple are not ready to marry if they are not prepared to embrace children. To go into marriage with the plan to stop children for a certain length of time is not God’s will. To stop God visiting you with His gift of life for any human reason (even “spiritual sounding” reasons) is not God’s will.

I know more than one couple who stopped having children because they were in “the ministry” and wanted to serve God. These couples have the wrong concept of God and the Bible. The perfect will of God will never negate God’s existing commandments.

God desires and looks for children from the marriage union. If we don’t want children, we have a different mindset than God. We are not in step with Him.

No, this is one of those big decisions every couple must make, not Nancy, not a pastor, but the individuals participating in the marriage. Not everyone is able to raise a child,  not everyone wants children. Would it not be better than the only children born were arriving in families where they were loved and wanted?


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NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

I Fired God by Jocelyn Zichtermann

13:24 A Dark Thriller by M Dolon Hickmon

About Suzanne Titkemeyer
Suzanne Titkemeyer went from a childhood in Louisiana to a life lived in the shadow of Washington D.C. For many years she worked in the field of social work, from national licensure to working hands on in a children's residential treatment center. Suzanne has been involved with helping the plights of women and children' in religious bondage. She is a ordained Stephen's Minister with many years of counseling experience. Now she's retired to be a full time beach bum in Tamarindo, Costa Rica with the monkeys and iguanas. She is also a thalassophile. She also left behind years in a Quiverfull church and loves to chronicle the worst abuses of that particular theology. She has been happily married to her best friend for the last 32 years. You can read more about the author here.
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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nea

    Hey, Nance, what does God think about you not wanting certain children so much you MADE THEM DISAPPEAR?

  • sola gravida

  • Saraquill

    That’s a fine “fuck you” to barren people.

  • Anri

    Y’know, the earth’s actually got plenty of people.
    Really.
    If there’s one thing we’re not short of, it’s people.
    Population growth is not actually a reality-based priority for humanity, IMHO.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    how very dare you go around suggesting that gods own busy body should not have a say in the personal lives of strangers!

  • Tawreos

    Another one that wants people tied down with children and the efforts to provide for them. It makes sure that both parents are worn out and not likely to fight back against anything. Everything in religion comes back to control.

  • Nea

    Isn’t all of Quiverfull one big fuck you to anyone with fertility issues?

  • Saraquill

    That said, Nancy and her ilk can’t be trusted with adoption.

  • Or health issues, or developmental issues (not caused by the requisite level of abuse)…..

  • momzilla76

    I stopped paying any attention to Nancy and her magazine when she wrote that spacing pregnancies meant you had the heart of an abortionist. I was intensely sick at the time with a yet undiagnosed chronic illness that began during my third pregnancy. Unfortunately I had drunk at the trough of childbearing worship too long and resisted permanent methods of birth control. So despite my best efforts at spacing my kids I had 3 more really close together. By the time the 6th child was born I had finally gotten free from the warped views of motherhood and we took permanent steps to cease bearing.
    Keep on talking against the lies

  • Friend

    Out in the real USA, employers don’t like hiring pregnant women or letting them come back after childbirth. Housing and health insurance are very expensive, so young adults sensibly try to get decent jobs before having children. This goes double if they have debts from college or other sources. Triple if they enter the work force during a recession.

    So it’s not some kind of feminist rebellion against God. It’s more like a self-motivated anti-poverty program. It’s better to have two or three people living in a cheap apartment than six or seven living in a car.

    Nancy doesn’t care about any of this, but the lower rates of marriage and birth among Nancy’s favorite people have actual non-mysterious reasons.

  • paganheart

    Isn’t Nancy the one whose adopted kids from Africa mysteriously “disappeared?” (And if so, is anyone else disturbed as hell that this couple were even allowed to adopt children of color, when Nancy’s husband shows white supremacist leanings in his own blog?)

    ETA: Should have read down to Nea’s comment, yes Nancy is the one whose adopted kids vanished. *shudder*

    Lately I’ve noticed the “pro life” crowd has been trotting out the “women should just choose adoption over abortion” canard again, in the wake of the horrifying anti-abortion laws being passed in the US. Cases like the Campbells, frankly, are probably one of the reasons more women don’t choose to place their children for adoption. The system is just too screwed up.

    My husband and I chose not to have kids of our own, because health problems made pregnancy too dangerous for me. I was willing to consider adoption, but my husband refused because of the disastrous adoption experience his own parents had. (Short version: they adopted two children from Korea who turned out to have serious mental and emotional issues they were not told about, and were unprepared to handle.) My sister also knows a girl, a friend of her daughter’s, who got pregnant out of wedlock at 19 and isn’t in the best position to be raising a child, but she refused to consider abortion, and refused to place her child for adoption because her own experiences as a foster/adopted kid were bad, and she did not want her son to go through what she did.

    I’ve noticed that a lot of the Quiverfull crowd seem to encourage adoption as a way to “fill your quiver” when your own body can’t, but I would argue people like the Campbells are the last people who should be adopting kids.

  • Saraquill

    Re: white supremacist, the adoptions make a measure of sense. It gives the Campbells a chance to play “White Man’s Burden” by shitting on “helping” a captive brown audience.

  • Jim Jones

    The weight of humans and the animals we raise for food is vastly greater than that of wild animals.

  • Mel

    True story.

    I’ve had to stop various pro-life relatives using my son’s 26 week ‘miraculous’ survival as a talking point because – and I wish I was making this up – they’ve been fucking off the radar with actually helping us keep said miracle alive and well. I got reciminations from my inlaws (unspoken of course) about the fact that not only did I wait several years to have a kid but once I had a kid, I let that kid’s needs cause extra work for them by allowing my husband to work 1/2 time on the farm so we could, you know, have trained adults to do CPR when the kid needed it.

    Also, the fact that they were not involved in Spawn’s care at home became public knowledge because we live in a rural area where everyone knows each other’s cars and people started asking my inlaws why they were never at our house and my parents were always there. Their failure to be involved and the fact it was known was also my fault because I was unable to train my mom-in-law to use all of my son’s medical equipment while sleep-deprived and caring for a sick newborn rather than having her do it at the hospital like we offered 3 months before. (In case it wasn’t obvious, the offer of help was directly related to public scrutiny – and I was too damn exhausted to figure out how to task-analysis my mom-in-law through all of his medical care.)

    We’ve got seven adult family members living within two miles – and we received help from one of them…kind of. One of our cousins offered to drive me to and from the hospital since I didn’t have a car – which would have been amazing – but my mother-in-law didn’t pass the offer on because we didn’t really need it.

    Most pro-lifers talk the talk about caring about all babies – but they really think “all babies” are white, term infants whose mothers avoided all negative influences during pregnancy and received perfect prenatal care. I have no problem with theoretical future adoptive parents being realistic about what they can handle – but I have huge issues when those people who have a whole list of things they can’t handle are ok with forcing other people to handle that same kid.

  • Mel

    The logic is never strong with Nancy, is it? She’s got two premises that cannot both be held to be true in all circumstances if she’s being honest about her purpose:

    Premise One: Don’t get married until you are ready to have kids!

    Outcome One: People marry later when they are ready to have kids.

    Nancy’s Reaction: You should marry young!

    Premise Two: People should marry young because Bible! Marry later is wrong!

    Outcome Two: People marry young, then space their kids as needed.

    Nancy’s Reaction: Don’t marry unless you are ready to have kids!

    The logic is circular to start with – and that’s the point. Nancy really just wants to tell everyone how wrong they are.

  • Ruthitchka

    “Make more white babies!”

  • frostysnowman

    The Bates have as many kids as the Duggars. I still secretly hope Kelly Bates will have that 20th baby (although highly unlikely due to her age) because I think it would make their “dear friends” the Duggars unbelievably jealous.

    And I’ll ask this again – Can’t God get past the birth control if his plan is for you to have kids even though you’re using it?

  • frostysnowman

    Of course Nancy doesn’t care, she doesn’t believe women should be working at all, let alone after childbirth.

  • Nea

    As I understand it, both Nancy and her daughter “rescue” adopted Liberian children who were then kicked out for inconveniently being individual people with individual wants and needs instead of perfect, breathing props for Campbell propaganda.

  • Nea

    Second comment… it’s hard to say who’s the last person who should be adopting. The competition is pretty stiff – the Campbells, who disappear adoptees? The Paddocks, Schatzes, and Williamses, who beat adoptees to death following the Pearls? Mrs. Musser, who let one adoptee drown to death while others were strapped to potty chairs watching and went right out and adopted ANOTHER disabled child to fill the gap?

  • paganheart

    That’s why I said “people like The Campbells.” If I was empress of the world, I would not allow fundie Christians like the Campbells, Paddocks, Mussers, et al. to adopt children, period. I am quite certain all of the families you mentioned are vehemently opposed to same-sex couples being allowed to adopt; but I am also certain that a child is better off being adopted and raised by a well-educated, secular, same-sex couple than being adopted and raised by the likes of the Campbells and Mussers. Yes I know there are exceptions (the lesbian couple from Oregon who killed themselves and their adopted kids comes to mind), but I know two lesbian couples at my church who have both adopted kids with serious health issues out of foster care, and have done a really amazing job with them. To be fair, both couples seem to benefit from having great resources and supportive families. But why were said kids available to adopt? Because no white, straight, Christian couples were willing to adopt them, of course…

  • Allison the Great

    Yeah most of those people are really the last people who should have access to children. They have such warped views about the world. I’ve seen racism on Colin Campbells blog and it wouldn’t surprise me if he were a white supremacist.

  • Allison the Great

    They sure as shit are not kind to those of us who have developmental disabilities.

  • paganheart

    That is really terrible, and I am really sorry you have to go through that. I’m not at all surprised, though.

    I had an aunt and uncle (now deceased) who were hardcore pro-lifers, the kind who stood outside clinics and screamed abuse at the people going inside. They had a daughter, my cousin, who very much toed the line…then she went off to college, fell in love, got careless, and got pregnant. She and her boyfriend (now husband) came home to tell her parents the news, and assure them that they planned to marry and raise their baby….but, probably because her boyfriend was the wrong color (Samoan) and the wrong religion (Baha’i), instead of being supportive, “pro life” Mom and Dad strongly suggested she go to Planned Parenthood and take care of her “problem.” She refused, so they disowned her. Fortunately, her boyfriends parents were the exact opposite; they welcomed the news and did everything they could to help, including providing the couple with a place to live and childcare, so they could continue their educations.

    Flash forward a few years…my cousin got pregnant a second time, and had to go on bed rest about six months in. Her husband had to take a second job because she could no longer work, so he wasn’t around much. They had a 2-year-old at home, and needed help with, well, everything. Her parents and siblings were not even speaking to her. My cousin was still a Christian and going to church, and her church friends offered lots of “thoughts and prayers,” but not one of them stepped up to offer help with anything. Not one. Instead, it was once again her in-laws and their Baha’i friends who stepped in. They organized a meal train; they brought over groceries; they helped with laundry and housework; they gave her rides to the doctor; they took care of her daughter; they even brought over books and movies to keep her entertained so she wouldn’t go insane being stuck in bed all day. In short, they did everything her “christian” so-called friends probably should have done…and that experience played a huge role in my cousin eventually deciding to leave the church and convert to her husband’s faith.

    You’re right, the “pro life” crowd seemingly only wants to ensure a steady supply of healthy, white newborns. I can’t decide of their indifference to all other children stems from racism, insincerity, or just flat-out being too cowardly, ignorant and weak to deal with the ugly, messy, and complicated reality of the world. Probably all of the above….

  • Allison the Great

    And she doesn’t give two fucks if people are living in a car. This woman’s daughter had to run around her hovel to keep warm. Nancy is perfectly fine with Holy Homelessness. Remember that woman she praised for having a trampoline but no heat or running water? These people should not be encouraging those who have no understanding of what it takes to raise children to breed like rabbits. Those people are like kids themselves. If they’re getting married at 18 they are kids!

  • AFo

    So on the one hand, you shouldn’t get married until you’re ready to have children (which, coming from Nancy, is downright reasonable). On the other hand, you should get married as young as possible to start pumping out babies as soon as possible, readiness be damned. If that’s not a sign that the system doesn’t work, I don’t know what is.

  • Yeah, and look at the squalor that her daughter lived in. Flooded house, no heat. The kids could exercise for warmth…. But by all means, keep cranking out the babies.

  • persephone

    That’s upsetting, but I’m completely unsurprised. I had a couple school friends (we were JWs so I couldn’t spend time with them anywhere but school) who were Baha’i, and I thought it made so much more sense than Christianity. And they were just so nice.

  • persephone

    My second was conceived despite birth control. I doubt their god had a hand in it.

    When I got my tubal ligation, my doctor told me that he cut, cauterized, and tied my tubes, just to be sure.

  • Friend

    Ah yes, the trampoline! Although, if we are rejecting Halloween and calling it Harvest, maybe the trampoline needs to be called a virginoline.

  • Wisdom, Justice, Love

    Take notice all women past menopause (as well as people with fertility issues). Since you can’t have children, there’s no need to marry.

    We don’t want any widows or widowers trying to cheat and find companionship. What am I saying, god is all the companion you need.

  • Treyarnon

    What I can’t get around is that these literal Bible believing Christians seem to have conveniently forgotten that Jesus was supposedly single and didn’t father anyone, and that Paul expressly encouraged believers to avoid marriage and family responsibilities “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8 Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.…” 1 Corinthans 7-9
    Marriage is always second best in the New Testament, just a concession to human frailty and singleness praised, so I am amazed they’ve managed to turn marriage and endless pregnancies it into a fetish of sorts.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    or chronic health problems.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Nancy has openly stated in interviews that it is important to outbreed the scary brown people, and that is why God wants that quiver full.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I believe one of those kids said in an interview that they went from Africa to Africa, implying that the Campbells live in third world poverty conditions.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I found with my own daughter’s bouts of ITP that you get lots of ‘thoughts and prayers’ but not much in a way of real help. While I didn’t have your round the clock situation just getting someone to sit with my daughter in the hospital while I ran out to the K Mart to get her a pair of slippers and a robe was impossible. Parents of critically ill children sometimes just need a small bit of help, but even getting that is hard.

  • Allison the Great

    Oh, so they’re referring to the subtle racism. I was wondering if Colin starting ending his blog posts with a nazi sign off or something.

  • Nea

    Nancy’s daughter was the one running laps around a condemned house in the winter to not smother from mold and smoke, so yeah. They do. And the daughter seemed to think the kids would totes think the running was a fun game if she just never cracked, because they would assume this was all… normal?

  • Lucy

    And of course Nancy doesn’t give a shit that there is often only so long a person, especially a child, can exercise for warmth before they wear out and are unable to keep going much longer.

  • Lucy

    @suzanneharpertitkemeyer:disqus

    Are comments being pre-moderated or universally flagged today? Because I noticed that immediately after I posted two comments in reply to someone else’s, it said they were being moderated. Is there an especially bad flurry of Russian spam or something today?

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Not a clue. First I have heard of it. Not moderating on this end. I know sometimes Disqus seems to have a mind of it’s own.

  • smrnda

    Therefore, a young couple are not ready to marry if they are not prepared to embrace children.

    Should I tell those happily married couples to get divorced then? Many couples also plan on having children after they’ve been married a while, with the idea that getting married itself is an adjustment, and that it’s best to wait until they’re settled into marriage before making another major change. There’s also financial reasons to wait. a couple I know waited until they were earning more money so they could move into a larger residence.

  • Jennny

    I read lots of adoption blogs in the 2000s after I went to China to help a friend bring home her daughter. The fundy world went crazy for adoptions back then. IIRC, Kay Warren went to Africa and came back saying every church should have an ‘Adoption Ministry.’ So fundy churches helped couples go abroad in droves to scoop up babies in rescue adoptions. At first bloggers said everything in the garden was rosy, then some began to be honest and admit their adoptees were trashing the home or sexually abusing siblings because they’d been abused. Suzanne, IIRC, said she worked in a childcare facility where up to 75% of children were from failed evangelical adoptions. I get the impression that so many traumatised kids whom parents thought would be healed by a few weeks of prayer caused so much havoc in families, that would-be adopters began to think twice about going half way round the world to bring home a severely psychologically damaged child. I felt slightly nauseous as I began to see websites set up as ‘re-homing agencies’ for adopters who couldn’t cope and wanted rid of their adoptees….and I guessed those websites made money from these crises. My other vague impression now is that foreign adoptions are much less common thank goodness! Am I right, does anyone know?

  • Mimc

    This is why I hate it when people tell infertile couples to “just adopt”. Kids from foreign orphanages or even US Foster care are usually high needs. Even little babies can have FAS or injuries from malnourishment or drugs. Not everyone who wants a child is equipped to handle that.

  • GeckoShamelessRaceMixer

    People of this particular mindset ignore realities like medical conditions worsened by pregnancy, and the fact that it is financial and social recklessness to have ten plus children on one income especially when one parent lacks any marketable skills. Death and disability happen regardless of whether you have great faith.

  • GeckoShamelessRaceMixer

    Plus the mention of barren women rejoicing in their childless state when Armageddon comes, presumably because they won’t have to watch their children suffer. But I guess rapture theology neatly avoids that issue.

  • Jennifer

    Great catch! These people’s mental reflexes are too weak to bend and see where their faulty logic loops around itself.

  • Jennifer

    God bless your niece’s friend. She sounds tough and I hope things are better for her now than they were when she was a kid.

  • Jennifer

    It’s tragic that so many black children are aborted, no doubt often because their parents aren’t getting the support they need. I hope the useless former church friends of your cousin know the part they had to play in losing her. Thank God she was more Christian, in fact, than her awful parents.

  • Jennifer

    It looks like a religion with very nice people, though the idea of world unity is pretty out there.

  • Jennifer

    Whoa! Clever point, and good on them for speaking out.

  • Atheisticus

    There is no way to live rationally and make such people happy. The basis of their advice is completely irrational, religious dogma with no consideration for the real world or individual situations, as to be nothing but “one size fits none” blathering. If the mother dies, it was God’s will” or “They weren’t real Christians.” Always a handy excuse that doesn’t help anyone and makes the victims feel even worse.