No Longer Quivering
When I was gagging last week over Larry Solomon of Biblical Gender Roles tried futilely to prove that men own women I was completely blind to the almost worse piece he’d written “Appeasement is Never an Option for Christian Husbands” It’s MGTOW marriage advice with Larry Solomon. It is the second post on his site, just under the disgusting misguided attempts to own wives.
I didn’t come up with the MGTOW in this. Larry, like the good little substandard beta troll he is, started mentioning the MGTOW guys early on in this bit. Sounds like a bit of hit hoeing for more hits.
What this is happens to be a long email that Larry the Hairy Man received from a stranger named Mark. Mark is complaining about his long time wife, who does seem somewhat childish in his recitation of her wrongs. She is unsatisfied with their marriage, has pulled some immature stunts like tearing up the house if he says no to something. The typical Larry complaint of no sex. Plus the church backs her, not him, during marriage counseling.
I have to question if the email is genuine. Larry seems to be completely unaware that some people consider it great sport to bait him with awful fake emails just to see what he’ll come up with. One thing I did notice in this letter. The husband never once said that he loved his wife, or had any positive feelings about her. It’s all his annoyance that she’s not his sex robot, or whimpering slave. This is not marriage, this is a parent – child, or master – slave relationship grounded in inequality. There is no loving kindness, no sacrificial love, nothing to do with mercy.
First Larry states how many MGTOW unhappy marriage emails he’s flooded with, mentioning MGTOW over and over again. Then he tries to say what the feminist perspective would be on this letter:
The Christian feminists reading Mark’s story will come away with another lesson. In their view Mark just needs to go back to where he was before he discovered what the Bible says about the roles of husbands and wives. He needs to just do what his wife said and work on his “communication style” and “hear her” better. And of course, his wife mentioned the Christian feminist and humanists’ favorite word which is CONSENT. And when all else fails, Mark should just fall back into the appeasement mode with his wife, because after all “Happy Wife” = “Happy Life” right?
Not necessarily, Mr. Trollishness. This Christian Feminist sees some fault on both sides. This is the kind of outcome you get when you marry too young, when the balance of financial power and personal power is simply too one sided. He’s miserable. She is miserable. Instead of communicating needs in love, and efforts on the part of both partners to improve the marriage you get tantrums and sulking. Neither of these folks has any business being married! Likely both came into the relationship with unrealistic expectations without knowing themselves or each other that well. Recipe for bad marriage!
Consent in marriage is important. Not just sexual consent but consent in all areas. A few examples. My husband has and rides a motorcycle. I don’t necessarily like it, but he has my consent to ride it if he likes. On the other side we had a recent disagreement where he wanted to rent our house out during an upcoming U.S. trip. We could not agree, there was no consensus and no consent going on there. He dropped the idea after hearing from myself and a pile of realtor friends as unfeasible. Marriage does mean agreement on most things, consent to do certain things.
Larry, as usual, spends reams of words to tell this guy that he has a few options. He urges Mark to use ‘Discipline’ of many times against his wife, including cutting off any and all finances, yes, financial abuse. Which is a crime in many jurisdictions now.
What makes me laugh is Larry’s self righteous mewling that Mark should just up sticks and go to the park for a few hours to ‘punish’ his argumentative wife. Which is not entirely bad advice. Taking a time out and disengaging during a disagreement is sometimes needed to later reach an unemotional consensus. But the notion of punishing a wife by withdrawal of a husband is just laughable. I know many, including myself, that might think “Thank goodness! Yeah, yeah, take yourself out of here away from me and I’ll have a nice relaxing afternoon” reaching for a book and a tall glass of iced tea.
And one other thing I would like to add. You need to be VERY consistent in your disciplinary approach with your wife just as you need to be very consistent in your disciplinary approach with your children. So, the approach is, you rebuke her and she fails to repent and just keeps arguing with you then you walk away and engage in the silent treatment. If she becomes violent you leave the home for a few hours or even for the evening.
This consistent behavior toward her will result in one of three actions on her part:
- She will completely change her behavior.
- She will file for divorce.
- She will at least stop the raging so you won’t leave.
What Larry does not consider is that when you are dealing with very immature people it might just escalate the bad behavior on both sides. Someone that routinely destroys possessions and the house will likely get worse. In this case divorce might be the best thing for everyone involved. Mark can mail order a super submissive bride from overseas, and his wife can move forward and, hopefully, grow into a fully mature woman.
Please do not take marriage advice from Larry. His words lead only to misery and divorce. Plus Larry is not anyone worth emulating at all, he’s substandard in every way, which we saw when his name and location was exposed. He’s so so lower middle class average in every way. Clearly he has no real power in his life, and has to take out his toxic ideas of control out on a disabled wife and cowed children. Don’t be like Larry.
People tend to thrive and grow when they have personal autonomy and agency, being much happier and content, than being treated constantly as a lesser being. Just say no to Larry.
What is typical is that the real harmful toxicity is in the commentary. Posting a few of the worst.
Dave M obviously has no idea what daycare costs are:
ANM1
Be prepared to go scorched earth – a chance at happiness is worth the cost. Happiness without her if that ends up being what it is. An example of what not to put up with in marriage for your children if it comes to it. Be prepared to explain to her what the cost will be is she wants divorce. Explain to her that she will have to go to work. Explain to her that her life will be much harder if this direction is chosen. Explain to her that she will no longer have you to work for her, to help her, to provision for her. Explain to her that if she goes this direction there are no do overs and that there is a very high chance she will have to bear you giving your love, resources, and gifts to another woman.
It could be a good thing she does not work. You can control the finances when you are the one making the money. Your name is on that paycheck, not hers. Open an account in your name only and have you payment check deposited there. Take control. The new word is NO, until she is working toward improvement. Not you are working with so and so and she has to please them. She has to please you, her husband, period. if you aren’t seeing improvement no matter what anyone else things, the answer for anything is a NO.
Financial abuse ahoy!
Most of the men are urging Mark to start recording his wife all the time and go scorched earth replete with financial abuse.
And we end with toxic insane patriarch and Lori Alexander derriere licker Trey
The Bible tells us that it’s built into the woman to desire to control the man (courtesy of Eve in the Garden). What the Bible does not tell us is that FACT that a women will not respect a man that she can control. Also not mentioned is the FACT that a women will have no sexual desire for a man that she does not respect. Based on her hormonal sex drive she may use you from time to time to scratch her itch (while she is fantasizing that she is having sex with some other man) but she will not really have any desire for you and if she does not have a hormonal sex drive, you will get nothing.
Now strong Christian women understand that sexual refusal is a sin and will freely give their bodies to their husbands whether they currently have respect for him or not, but since this is no longer being taught in our churches, and society and our culture is screaming the exact opposite from every rooftop, most women don’t see sexual refusal as the abhorrent sin that it is.
Men in this situation have to explain the Biblical truths to their wives, gird themselves for battle and with constant prayer, take action. Once the battle has commenced, they must patiently and firmly, stand their ground no matter what. They need to understand that they are doing battle for the soul of their wives and children and they must be willing to risk it all for the cause of (and in obedience to) Christ.
A husband is bound by God’s word to agape (love) his wife. That means he is to always make decisions that are in her best interest regardless of the circumstances. Many times she will not like what is best for her, especially if she is mired in sin. He is also bound by God’s word to provide for the needs of his wife, not her wants… especially if what she wants is not in her best interest and it is never in the best interest of a spoiled brat child to get everything they want… especially if they throw a tantrum when they don’t get it.
I would do as Anm1 stated and open a new bank account and limit the money that she has access to. I would take her credit cards away, put her on an allowance and never pay a bill for a charge/card you have not authorized. A credit freeze might help in this matter. Then start cutting down on the other things that she wants (vacations, etc.) that are not necessities and explain to her clearly why you are doing all of this. She is in sin and God commands you to wash her in the water of the Word to remove her spots and blemishes. God disciplines those that he (agape) loves and you are called to love your wive as Christ loves the church.
In Mark’s case, hidden cameras (with audio) in the house are a must immediately for your own protection. I would think it wise to try and find that better job again far away from where he is currently living and move his family there to get his wife away from the bad influences that are currently strengthening her in her sin.
I also agree with Anm1 that her sexual refusal is the first battle to confront and win. This is where the battle should start and once won, everything after that should come easier. As for her “reasons” why she does not want to have sex with you, they are all just excuses (for her to pridefully maintain control) and no matter how many you address and appease, she will just come up with more and the more hoops you jump through the less she will respect you and you will just be peddling backwards.
As Anm1 also stated, it took years (of you doing it wrong) to get where you are, it might take a few years to get it fixed but as I know many others here (have and) are doing, I am praying for you and your wife Mark that God will honor you as you start obeying Him and working to get your house in order.
One final thing, I also agree with everything that Jonadab said above. This is going to take immense patience and vigilance and in the end, no matter what the outcome, you are doing this to the obedience to (and Glory of) Christ. Let this give you strength.
Abuse to the glory of Christ? Oh man, Trey needs Bible lessons I think.
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My advice to this man is to separate their finances and make copies of all important documents. Then sit down with his wife and give her an ultimatum—tell her that he will not remain in a sexless marriage, and that things need to change in order for the relationship to continue. Explain to her how difficult her life will be in a divorce, and that how courts are now starting to recognize fathers rights. If he is awarded equal custody, she will get significantly less child support, which would force her to take on more work hours in a job she doesn’t like.
Plant a couple motion activated hidden cameras—You can get them pretty cheap these days—disguised as common household objects. If she flips out and destroys things again, the footage could then be used to negotiate the divorce in your favor. Tell her that if she files for alimony, you will use the footage to file for full custody, showing how she is emotionally unstable and unfit to parent. If you are awarded full custody, you will end up paying less money for preschool or daycare, than you would have been paying for child support.