Tim Bayly Thinks Marriage Ends Effeminacy and Homosexuality?

Tim Bayly Thinks Marriage Ends Effeminacy and Homosexuality? September 16, 2019

It’s been a while since we checked in on Tim Bayly of Out Of Our Minds and it seems he’s been very busy bemoaning the fact that all Christians do not love and adore our president Donald Trump, some tales of how it’s burial or nothing post-death and talking of the death of his three brothers. A very odd mixed bag of stuff. But then we end up here, Bayly reposting a flowery world salad by a man that left effeminacy behind.

Bayly does not share the author’s name, just that the piece came from a place called Sanityville. He acts like it’s some separate place figuring in mystery, but it’s just another outlet at Warhorn Media and Out Of Their Minds. Tim Bayly is promoting his own things again while pretending otherwise. Sanityville indeed does not read like there is any sanity there.

There is discussion of being “Emo” (shorthand for “Emotional Hardcore” type of music and lifestyle) in college followed by some pastor explaining homosexual behavior in baseball terms of pitching and catching. College? This sounds distinctly much more like a middle school emo kid trying to figure out how relations work.

And then we get to this, declarations of how to turn off homosexuality and effeminacy:

There is a bit of a catch-22 that I will identify here but, not having an easy answer to it, do not intend to further address. Godly men should get married and father children, but it is marriage and fatherhood that makes men godly; and, godliness is next to manliness. What I mean here is that, what helped pull me out of effeminacy more than anything else—any good word preached or any intervention or intercession from friends and brothers—was getting married.

This is kind of like saying that with enough elbow grease, wax, and positive thinking you can turn that rusted out 1973 Ford Pinto into a new Cadillac. The basic nature of the person has not changed, the only thing that changed is what junk yard the car is residing in.

Marriage and babies have been proven time and again to have zero effect on someone’s bedrock sexuality. No amount of gay aversion therapy works as we see by all the guys running these programs that eventually fall apart, admit it does not work and re-embrace their own sexuality.

The only thing that happens is that you do not only a huge disservice to oneself, but also to your partner and whatever poor confused children are born  into the relationship. Hurt for everyone.

Then this whole piece turns into Lori Alexander boilerplate on the evils of college, debt and mothers that do not stay home to raise babies and he somehow manages to twist it to fitting with his feminine nature being the problem.

When we had our first child, she quit working, and the excess money left the household. We briefly lived within our new means, but the inner sinfulness and effeminacy occupying my heart screamed at the unfairness of not being able to get what I want, when I wanted it. We took out credit cards. We bought another car. We moved away from our church home so that I could take a job in a place where neither of us knew anyone all for more money.

Maybe I’m just really thick today but I am not getting his linking his effeminacy to the lust for money and credit cards. He gives no clue as to how that happened.

Certainly, there was more sin involved in my failures than just effeminacy, but I have come to understand that effeminacy was at the root of it all. Fundamentally, effeminacy is a refusal by a man to occupy the place and role he should in a given relationship. I stepped back when I could, only did difficult things when my unwillingness to do so would have made plain what I sought to keep hidden about myself. I complained loudly of work at home because I had the sense to keep such complaints out of my friend groups, church family, and workplace.

So let’s see if I have this straight, he thinks because he was whining and complaining and home and inner refusal to ‘be a man’, whatever that is, is him being effeminate?

I just cannot figure! I must go take an Excedrin number infinity and lay down. None of this makes anything approaching sense!


Editor’s note: I will be traveling starting tomorrow back to the U.S. and will likely be unable to approve comments right away. If the filters eat your comments just hang tight and know that I will be approving them as soon as I can. No need for threats involving clowns or lawyers. I’ll be not as much around for the next week as it’s the yearly let’s buy things in the States marathon, You cannot get otc drugs, decent towels, any electronics, etc easily or cheaply here in Costa Rica. Doing my import run.

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NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

I Fired God by Jocelyn Zichtermann

13:24 A Dark Thriller by M Dolon Hickmon

About Suzanne Titkemeyer
Suzanne Titkemeyer went from a childhood in Louisiana to a life lived in the shadow of Washington D.C. For many years she worked in the field of social work, from national licensure to working hands on in a children's residential treatment center. Suzanne has been involved with helping the plights of women and children' in religious bondage. She is a ordained Stephen's Minister with many years of counseling experience. Now she's retired to be a full time beach bum in Tamarindo, Costa Rica with the monkeys and iguanas. She is also a thalassophile. She also left behind years in a Quiverfull church and loves to chronicle the worst abuses of that particular theology. She has been happily married to her best friend for the last 33 years. You can read more about the author here.

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  • Finding Home

    “what helped pull me out of effeminacy more than anything else”
    Did Tim Bayly just accidentally admit he’s gay? I’m NOT saying “effeminate” equals gay, but he does believe that it does.

  • Tawreos

    Wow is there a lot to unpack here.

    Godly men should get married and father children, but it is marriage and fatherhood that makes men godly; and, godliness is next to manliness.

    So men no longer have to believe in god, they just have to get married? Is he also saying that a butch lesbian2 in more godly than an effeminate gay man?

    What I mean here is that, what helped pull me out of effeminacy more than anything else—any good word preached or any intervention or intercession from friends and brothers—was getting married.

    How exactly does that work? Is there a secret part of the ceremony that turned off the effeminate parts of him? I know that I can go from run of the mill guy in my mannerisms to full on queen just depending on who I am hanging out with and what we are doing. Like anything else, some things get tailored to the occasion.

    We briefly lived within our new means, but the inner sinfulness and effeminacy occupying my heart screamed at the unfairness of not being able to get what I want, when I wanted it.

    What does effeminacy have to do with spending money? I can dress in full drag regalia and have my flame all the way up and not spend one more dime than I meant to. I guess the author may be trying to make a “women be shopping” joke in the poorest possible manner ever.

    Fundamentally, effeminacy is a refusal by a man to occupy the place and role he should in a given relationship.

    I know men that could be the most feminine person in a room full of southern belles and still knock you into the middle of next week without less effort than it takes me to type this sentence. Mannerisms have no bearing on anything that is of any importance in life. If your bother you, change them, but don’t think for one moment that changing mannerisms changes anything about the underlying person. Accept yourself, before you do something stupid and wreck yourself.

  • Nea

    Weird how all the things Timmie and Nameless Dude lay to Dude’s “effeminacy” are the same character traits Mikey Pearl lays to his “visionary” nature and brags about how they make him soooo manly.

    – wants to get what he wants the moment he wants it
    – moved away from the church fam to somewhere where neither one of them knew anyone
    – steps back whenever he can get Debi to do the hard work (like make sure the family doesn’t starve, hustle up business he’s too depressed to find work, donates nothing personally or from the ministry when she needs surgery money)
    – complains about things not going his way/people not doing what he wants

  • AFo

    I think Bayly and his followers use “effeminacy” as a catch-all term for any problems or “sins” they encounter. Bayly himself is completely obsessed with this idea, hence his regular meltdowns over complete strangers having the nerve to wear skinny jeans, or something equally insane. In their minds, every sin is the result of men being to “effeminate” and/or women being too “masculine.”

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Bayly didn’t write this thing, I hope. This is someone younger than Bayly. I cannot see Bayly dressing like an Emo.

  • Martin Penwald

    If a man doesn’t act like an 80’s action movie hero all the time, he isn’t a Real Man™.
    It sounds exhausting.

  • Friend

    “effem1nacy is a refusal by a man to occupy the place and role he should in a given relationship.”

    So every depressed guy laid off from the plant, mill, or mine is turning g@y? And “a given relationship” is not just c1shet marriage. SO C0NFUSED by this grand Christian insight.

  • Finding Home

    Ah, you’re right. I wasn’t reading carefully enough!

  • Polytropos

    Yeah, I think there’s a lot of displacement going on here. The writer is blaming all his problems and shortcomings on “effe&#8203minacy”, instead of doing the work needed to change his problematic habits (or, you know, accepting that if he and his wife want more money it’s totally fine for both of them to work). Because as we all know, there’s no need to work on ourselves or have frank conversations about the family budget when we can just pray the problem away.

  • SAO

    It’s hard to comment since who the hell knows what he means by ‘effeminate’. It looks to me like a throw away, meaningless word.

  • guerillasurgeon

    Personally I’d leave it packed. Bedbugs can travel in luggage.

  • guerillasurgeon

    I know that the number of gay men and women Christians who suddenly decide later in life that their heterosexual marriage is a sham is relatively small, but you’d think the numbers would be significant enough to give him at least a pause for thought. Or am I being overoptimistic here? (Rhetorical question I know)

  • texassa

    These people spend way too much time thinking about how their sad lives and sad feelings have anything to do with the lives of other unrelated people they do not, and will not ever, know.

  • Ann Kah

    …and not enough thinking of how their choices will affect the ones they DO know, such as the poor wife who is stuck with the job of trying to turn a man into a “real” man. What do you want to bet that she is being told that it’s all her fault if he slips?

  • paganheart

    What I find strangest about this is how they associate 1effeminacy1 with being greedy and wanting more money, and not being able to live within their means, while to be frugal and responsible with money is “masculine.” In my experience anyway, it’s often the other way around. It is women who become pros at saving money, being frugal, and being able to “stretch a dime into a dollar” (as my aunt used to say) because the manly manly men in their lives must have their “toys”…their power tools, their hunting and fishing gear, their ATVs, their car accessories, and yes, their gun$…and I’m not talking about men who need these things to make their living. I’m talking manly many masculine men who insist they deserve these things and are entitled to them, because they are manly manly men who work hard for them. And many of them will insist on buying such things, even as their wives are making do with second-hand clothes for themselves or their kids, and subsisting on boxed macaroni and cheese and donations from the church, or the food bank.

    It also makes me think of my days in family law, and all the summonses I drafted for clients whose ex-husbands or boyfriends were behind on their child support. And how many of those men cried poor and claimed they didn’t have money for child support, but they sure seemed to have plenty of money for tattoos, lifted trucks, window-shaking subwoofers, and cannabis…

  • TheBookOfDavid

    This is a test of the Emergency Comment Posting System:


    In the event your comment was actually stuck in moderation, this tone would have been followed by instructions on how to dispatch a clown car. Repeat: this is only a drill.

  • WallofSleep

    Happy travels, and be careful; Max’s very nice lawyer might try to serve you with papers while you’re here.


  • smrnda

    There’s also a tendency among some men to view high risk business ventures and such as ‘manly’ so they end up quitting steady jobs to begin a business that will soon go under and leave substantial debt. You can see that with Michael Pearl, who must make money from ‘hare brained schemes’ because apparently, heading out and getting a job is beneath him.

    And the toys…. I’m in favor of adults being able to treat themselves from time to time, but this has to be balanced with paying the bills and you can’t have 1 member of a family who can clearly blow2 money on toys while nobody else gets even the basics. And then there’s the problem that many of these ‘man toys’ are really expensive.

  • WallofSleep

    Huh, so that’s what “emo” means. Learn something new everyday.

  • WallofSleep

    In his world those people don’t exist. They’re still heterosexuals who want to indulge in the sin of homosexual activity.

  • WallofSleep

    Exhausting, and demeaning.

  • kaydenpat

    “godliness is next to manliness”

    Really? So he’s claiming that atheist men can’t be manly? What about men who believe in gods that aren’t in the Bible? Bayly is beyond egocentric.

    And if his definition of manliness is Donald Trump, he’s delusional. Manliness doesn’t require toxicity.

  • WallofSleep

    Besides, I don’t see how getting on your knees and bowing obsequiously can be considered “manly”. Survile, sure, but “manly”?

  • WallofSleep
  • lady_black

    So, Tim thinks marriage can chase away his “effeminacy” (whatever the hell he means by that)? He’s telling us things about himself, I would really rather not know.

  • lady_black

    If he can stop ROFL long enough…

  • lady_black

    You must have read my mind. I have no idea what he thinks that means.

  • lady_black

    It sounds like whoever wrote it thinks “effeminate” means something like “spoiled brat toddler.”

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Sent in the clowns!!!!!!!

  • Nomad

    Evidence that much of the religious right’s problem with LGBT people is rooted in their problems with women, party eleventy.

  • WallofSleep

    Killer Clowns from Outer Space was literally on the tv when I read his comment.

  • TheBookOfDavid

    Everything happens for a reason. You witnessed an unexplained clown coincidence. Therefore, oogedy-boogedy action at a distance. It’s the only explanation that makes sense!

  • Jennifer

    Whoa, excellent catch.

  • Anthrotheist

    Is it just me, or is his apparent definition of “effeminacy” basically, “impulsive, wishy-washy, emotional, girly weakness”? Basically, everything that his toxic subculture attributes as reasons why women should never, ever run a household, and should always submit to their strong, manly husbands. The very worst of complimentarianism.

    And the only apparent force behind his eventual change seems to be a deep sense of shame at his own supposed girliness. What a despicable diatribe of misogyny masked as theology.

  • SAO

    Not only is every laid-off guy suddenly ‘effeminate’ but if ‘effeminacy’ is not supporting your family, then the CPM is probably the biggest engine for emasculating men — people who follow their advice end up as young couples with tons of kids, no skills, no HS diploma (unless you count their homeschooling diploma granted by their parents), leaving supporting their family an impossible goal.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Many times Bayly’s definition of the word effeminate is gay. He straight up uses it many times in his writings that way, as gay or just one or two steps down his slippery slope to turning gay.

  • persephone

    Never going to take that bet, because it’s always the woman’s fault. Her life is a perpetual Catch-22 of being told all the things she must do to maintain the family and help her husband be the head of household he should be, but then told that she can’t tell him anything, just work around whatever is happening and wait for him to catch on. But if she isn’t aggres9sively waiting, then she’s doing it wrong.

    The women spend their entire lives trying to please their masters that they don’t have time to think about how none of this makes sense or fits with what Jesus taught. They’re too busy spinning from one task to the next.

  • persephone

    Anything that doesn’t match up with Schwar9zenegger or Stal9lone movies in the 80s is effe9minate. Woman are wh9iny, dem9anding, though9tless, sel9fish, etc. and men have to be ma9nly to bring them into line, but somehow it’s still always the women’s fault when things don’t work. They’re infan9tilized, then forced to be everything that their churches and husbands demand. So, we’re dizzy bro9ads who are completely responsible for everything.

  • persephone

    How many of the apostles married? Are they all effeminate?

  • taylor_serenil

    Well, I’m glad that y’all think this is nowhere near Sanityville, because otherwise I’d have to worry that the not-fun meds quit working and the gray area sort-of-fun meds worked too well.

    Like, dude, I’m qu33r, I know orientation doesn’t work that way and neither does presentation (really butch ladies who like dudes exist, really femme dudes who like ladies exist.)

  • taylor_serenil

    i am not a qualified therapist, tim, and the ones i know would probably horrify you.

  • persephone

    My ex-MIL is a family law attorney. I used to help out in her office. Ugh.

    Some numpty on twitter tweeted that men are the reason women have bre9asts, so we owe them. Many women told him they would be quite happy to give up both the bre9asts and the men.

  • persephone

    I’ve seen a few marriages where it was obvious that there was an issue with orientation, but the members consider it to be part of their suff9ering in serving God to deny themselves.

  • taylor_serenil

    cis lady here, and this is why toxic masculinity is bad for dudes too. the boxes don’t work well for a LOT of people, it’s just more obvious for women/kids/folks with more complicated gender IDs than it is for cis men.

  • Ruthitchka

    “Why I am divorced.” I got tired of every darn thing somehow being my fault. I believed everything WAS my fault for many years until it no longer made sense.

  • Ruthitchka

    That role of being responsible for everything really wore me out!

  • taylor_serenil

    i don’t understand that concept, but that’s probably because my brain is translating church-speak into the reality of being not-straight and being OKAY with that. clearly i was not raised in the right church according to this dude.

  • Ruthitchka

    I doubt that it’s a small number, but I’m basing that on things I have read and seen on television, so I may be wrong. Anyway, gay folks trying to “marry the gay away” often lead to heartache and tragedy for all involved several years down the road, unless everyone can be very mature when the gay party finally comes out of the closet and decides to live as a gay person rather than a straight one. I have seen some people on TV, like the former head of the U.S. Episcopal Church (Robinson?) who, with their then-wives, navigated these tricky “waters” with lots of maturity and lots of love.

  • Ruthitchka

    100% agreed.

  • taylor_serenil

    I have so many single mamas whose kids have “paternal DNA contributors” as tax clients. My first sentence to any single mama who’s filing as head of household is “Let me guess, paternal DNA contributor contributed DNA and maybe a last name (if a kid’s doesn’t match hers that’s usually why) but did NOT live with y’all last year, did NOT contribute support, and CANNOT claim the kids?”

    That just let me knock out about half their child tax credit/EITC due diligence questions without having to get too deep and as long as I take notes we’re all good. (Unless they’re involved in something way bigger than the tax return I’m seeing, idc if it’s not the exact truth. You can split custody and get child support and still be a legit HoH, that just isn’t usually my clients.)

  • kaydenpat

    Great question. Paul certainly didn’t marry. Neither did Jesus.

  • Brandon Roberts

    effeminacy isn’t bad i’m a burly bearded guy and i love plenty of effeminate shit2.

  • taylor_serenil

    that setup is going to make for a very toxic relationship very quickly, ime.

  • taylor_serenil

    my personal opinion is that the less people care about strict gender roles, the more likely they are to be able to do the long-term relationship thing successfully.

    assuming, of course, that they actually want to, since both aromantic and asexual of the non-interested variety folks exist.


    (i’m pretty sure my mama would have made a bb tim bayly run screaming, and her and my dad are at 50+ years together. come to think of it, my dad might make tim bayly run screaming considering when i was a kiddo he used to be the one who’d hem my jeans/sew basic curtains/back when i still could i did a cross-stitch that would usually be for a mom and switched the applicable part to “Father’s sewing basket”.)