Have You Cross-Dressed Today?

Have You Cross-Dressed Today? January 2, 2018

Lori Alexanders Brain

Do you think that any of the female cultural enforcers of Quiverfull realize that clothing choices through the years are more cultural than Biblical? After reading this post by Lori Alexander of The Transformed Wife I would venture to say no. Now she’s ragging on about not being a cross dresser. That’s rich considering for many long stretches of time men and women both wore the exact same garments – robes.

Shaking my head and laughing here at the notion of cross dressing in a society where everyone wears similar utilitarian clothing. Lori is quoting red pill male Dalrock here and illustrating her argument by sharing a photo of a female law enforcement officer in her uniform. Her. Uniform… which she is required by law to wear on the job, that is practical and suitable for the tasks one must do on that job!

Lori26Seriously? Men and women have always worn whatever their culture and position deems is correct. Jesus wore a robe, or what looks like a dress to our eyes. Mary and Martha wore something similar. Their era there wasn’t much difference between apparel for men and women, except for perhaps accessories.

Lori26No one of either sex should be shamed by anything on that list. The irony of Lori Alexander speaking out against male clothing worn by women is that she had her own modest/gender roles dressing scandal around the Forth of July when she posted a photo of herself in shorts, not a dress or the skirt, and clearly showed a great deal of thigh in the process. Some of Lori’s followers reacted badly, calling her out for immodesty and pants-wearing. She responded by saying that Ken wanted her to wear this and it was none of anyone else’s business. Yeah, just like it’s really not Lori’s business what that young woman law enforcement officer is wearing in the photo Lori jacked from the internet.

Lori follows all this up with being upset that people are not calling out women for being cross dresses, that it’s all so perfectly acceptable. Then she moves on to a list for men.

Lori28So Lori wants to make cross dressing some new type of sin? Cross dressing by her narrow gendered definition goes back to before Bible times. Whatever happened to allowing everyone to dress to suit their day, for comfort, for certain tasks? Lori has shown that she uses the privilege of dressing for comfort instead of her own stated rules.

moreRead more hypocrisy from Lori Alexander

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • I used to make the same argument that in Bible times men and women wore virtually the same clothing so why are skirts supposedly “women only” garments?

    Lori is highly offensive in her statements about women in the military and law enforcement! These people are protecting her and her rights to make offensive statements and she doesn’t even appreciate these trained professionals!

    And who cares about cross dressing anyway? She really has too much time on her hands
    Maybe she should spend time volunteering to help others instead of excoriating people and judging them….

  • John Pieret

    Wears women’s dresses or skirts (excluding kilts)?

    She shoots her own argument in the foot. If her god needs to distinguish women by their clothing, which has to be different from men, why do kilts get an exception other than god recognizing cultural differences between human clothing? So, if women wearing pants is culturally acceptable in modern America, why isn’t he cool with that as much as he’s cool with Scots men wearing skirts?*
    _________________________________

    * It’s all stupid of course. It just gets an extra special note of stupidity when it’s internally stupid. And sheesh … I thought their god was anal when he cared if humans masturbated.

  • Snowflake

    Where does this woman live? In my area we are in the middle of a cold snap, like a lot of the country, I think. We have not broken 10 degrees in a week and many mornings it’s -10. I am dressing for warmth and safety. I would love to go out and buy combat boots!

    I think though, I would find boxer shorts uncomfortable, especially with skinny jeans.

  • EbbyBee

    She comes so close to realizing how sexism works. The reason men don’t wear women’s clothing isn’t because women are degenerates who will wear anything. It’s because being a woman is viewed as lesser. So when a man wears women’s clothing he is debasing himself. He becomes a target of ridicule because he has given up his manliness, which is considered vastly superior to femininity. Making sure that everyone can wear what the feel comfortable in is a goal of modern feminism, but, as usual, Lori misses the point entirely.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Basically, Lori’s upset that cultural norms mean women now can’t commit a particular (in her view) sin. What upsets her is not that women are wearing trousers per se, but that it no longer counts as cross-dressing for women, making it impossible for women to cross-dress even if they wanted to.
    Ignoring the specifics, this is a perfect demonstration of Lori’s completely twisted concept of sin. The normal religious understanding of sin is that it is a bad thing, and if an opportunity for people to sin is taken away, so that they can’t do it any more, that would generally be regarded as good. Lori, on the other hand thinks this is somehow bad, for reasons that she doesn’t (or can’t) articulate.
    My best guess is that Lori’s problem is that for her, “sin” is not that which is necessarily (or even primarily) harmful, or morally or spiritually corrupting, but essentially a marker or scorecard to determine who is “in” and who “out” with God. If women can wear the same clothes as men without committing the “sin” of cross dressing, that’s one less way Lori can mark herself out as not being like all those reprobate unsaved, and she doesn’t like it one bit.

  • Julia Childress

    I think that God wants Christian women to act like Christians, and Christian men to act like Christians. After all, Paul told the Galations “27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 28.” She really thinks that God gives a flying fig what our clothing looks like?

  • Nightshade

    Of course Lori knows what she’s talking about. See how feminine her attire is in this picture, just like the women of old she claims we are supposed to emulate. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab28281a9646d8d7be37bc83de4b373e3914ba66b482505fc58b1eea79901979.jpg

  • Jennny

    I really can’t remember where on PatheosN/R I read not long ago some crazy fundy saying kilts are OK as they are really not skirts. I’m a dressmaker and have made scots’ kilts, not sure what part of the word ‘skirt’ these wingnuts don’t understand.

  • Julia Childress

    Your comment made me think about growing up in the south. For my grandmother, it was very important that her children and grandchildren be schooled in English grammar, to develop proper manners, and to know how to set a formal dining table and understand when and how to use each utensil, glass and plate. For you see, these skills would forever differentiate us from the Great Unwashed. They would be signs to others that we were of genteel birth and upbringing, and that we belonged to the more desirable class. Ironically, my mother chose a life of faith, poverty and struggle, but she always adhered to the Scarlet O’Hara-style code of southern gentility. As you point out, Lori and many other modern Christians strive to develop a legal system that will ensure that they are “in” with God, which of course, makes everyone else “out”. The result of this is that they not only want to differentiate themselves from those they deem unworthy, but they make them the target of derision and scorn.

  • Annerdr

    Which one is Lori?

  • Annerdr

    Knowing the difference between the salad fork and the dessert fork shows that you come from Good People. I’m also Southern, know the proper thing to say and know how to set the table correctly. I thought I had outgrown that classist nonsense, but I was shocked when my adult stepdaughter did not know on which side of the plate that the dinner fork went. So, I learned to check my classism further.

  • Nightshade

    The one wearing a green plaid, possibly flannel shirt, and black pants, or perhaps leggings. So very feminine, doesn’t look anything like the cross-dressing she complains about…or does it?

  • SAO

    Ah, the God of the picayune. He doesn’t have time to inspire people to create world peace, help their fellow man. No! He’s too busy fussing over a dress code.

  • Nightshade

    I feel that I should add that I have no objection whatsoever to the clothes she is wearing, given the setting her outfit does not look inappropriate at all to me (also, I think the green is a nice color for her, but that’s purely an opinion on my part). My only issue is the fact that she tells other women what not to wear, and doesn’t even follow her own rules.

  • Annerdr

    She looks normal, but she gets paid to push abnormal.

  • Trellia

    This last week at work, one of my friends was wearing ‘men’s socks’ because they were warmer. I like the musky ‘men’s scent’ area in Bath and Body Works and would have no problem picking up a scent for myself from there. I also like the graphic tees in the guys’ section. Nothing wrong with combat boots on anyone, though I personally prefer suede with fringe and preferably beads too. I mostly wear skirts with shorts or gauchos underneath for warmth because I get overheated and hate garments that cling, and really don’t like pants if I don’t need to wear them. Sometimes this week I’ve worn a long skirt WITH pants underneath for warmth!

  • Nea

    From this perspective, we were already half way to accepting cross dressing as far back as the 1980s.

    Oh, Lori’s so young, isn’t she! Bless her heart, women have been wearing trousers as general fashion since the 1930s, with women commonly wearing jeans and men’s clothing to do men’s work during WWII in the 40s, which then evolved into the bobby soxer and her rolled up jeans in the late 40s.

  • Nea

    Her “loving god” would torment me for eternity for the sin of wearing shoes that fit, men’s styles being wider.

  • Foxglove

    Thank you. I enjoyed this blog very much. The irony of it brought a smile to my face. It happens from time to time on cross-dresser forums that some guy will heatedly protest, “Why is a man considered to be cross-dressing when he puts on a dress, but a woman isn’t when she wears pants?” And then people try to explain it to him.

    I will say, though, that I personally have had contact (at least on-line) with lots and lots of male cross-dressers, but never once with a female cross-dresser. In fact, in all my investigation of LGBT issues I have only ever encountered one woman who identified as a cross-dresser. And yet I did see a study once that indicated that there are at least as many female cross-dressers out there as male. Where they all are, I don’t know, but they don’t–at least in my experience–participate on forums.

    Obviously–despite this idiot Christian’s claims to the contrary–a woman can cross-dress. There’s more to dressing like a man than putting on a pair of pants. One of my early memories is having seen Cher and Chaz (at the time still little Chastity) Bono on TV doing a song and dance routine wearing tuxedos.

    I think, too, of a woman I used to see around town from time to time (though it has been quite a while now since I last saw her), generally dressed in a plaid shirt, jeans and boots–i.e., wearing nothing that a man couldn’t comfortably wear. I never considered her to be cross-dressing, nor was there any reason to think that she was a lesbian or anything else of the sort. In this little rural town the natural assumption would be that she was a farmer. If that was the case, then it made sense for her to dress like a farmer. Definitions of cross-dressing can be fluid. A woman farmer dressing in that fashion is no more cross-dressing than a woman soldier or cop when they put on their uniforms.

    That said, the experience of male cross-dressers shows that there’s every bit as much a stigma attached to being a cross-dresser as there is to being transsexual or non-binary or any other sort of gender-variant person. Christians complain about how it’s a sin and immoral and against God, but where their logic breaks down is when it comes to intersex people. No one could possibly claim that being intersex is a choice or the result of turning one’s back on God or anything of the sort. But intersex people are nonetheless as strongly stigmatized as any other group of gender-variant people. I have come across at least one group of Christians who insist that intersex people must remain celibate, even if they’re capable of having sexual relations. You don’t fit the norm, therefore you must be punished, even if it’s quite clear you’re in no way responsible for your circumstances.

  • Mel

    Oh, heavens. Pants are a really new fashion trend due mainly to increased use of horses. The more traditional forms of clothing are simply tubes and flat apron/cape like pieces. Yeah, there are some differences between men’s tubes and women’s tubes – but not that much.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    The difference between Lori and your grandmother is that your grandmother was concerned that her (and her family’s) own behaviour was creditable to themselves. Lori’s concern is enthusiastically designating everybody else’s behaviour as “sin”.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    She is in San Diego, California where the weather usually stays pretty warm most of the year.

  • John Pieret

    There is a female attorney in my area who has come to court every day for decades in what can only be described as a man’s suit, dress shit, tie and shoes. There are no so-called “feminine touches” or other concessions to conventional attire. To their credit, to the best of my knowledge, the other attorneys have not given her grief but I’m sure there was talk behind her back.

    In that lovely “Nashville Statement” about sex and gender that the fundagelicals came up with, they called intersex people “those born with a physical disorder of sex development” and allowed that they were “acknowledged by our Lord Jesus in his words about ‘eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb’.” They “welcomed” them as “faithful followers of Jesus Christ” and told them to “embrace their biological sex insofar as it may be known.”

    Doesn’t the love just ooze from that?

  • phatkhat

    Alas, combat boots are NOT warm. Not even with wool socks. My feet froze on guard duty or in the field many times while I was cross-dressing in my role as soldier, LOL. As to cold weather, her commenters recommended flannel petticoats and wool skirts. Whatever. [eyeroll]

  • persephone

    The Romans looked down on barbarians for wearing pants (well, tied up leggings). So uncivilized.

  • phatkhat

    I can relate. I blame my wide feet on years of wearing combat boots – as part of my uniform, but it’s probably really just age. (Say it ain’t so!!!)

  • Foxglove

    It’s the thing about being out: a lot of times you find to your surprise that you can get away with stuff that you didn’t think you could get away with. Most people have a natural timidity in them. As long as you make it clear that you’re going to stick to your guns, they’ll back off. What they say behind your back is of course another question, but you don’t necessarily have to worry about that. I personally would love to know what the people of my town have to say about me. Or maybe I wouldn’t love to.

    And yeah, the Nashville Statement–another of Christianity’s great triumphs. Sad to say, it’s not just Christians. There are other people who really should know better who are at it just as viciously.

    . . . a man’s suit, dress shit, tie and shoes.

    BTW, John, you may want to edit this little phrase. Completely up to you, of course. I’m cool with it.

  • Sonyaj

    Yet another Christian bleating “do as I say, not as I do”, and not at all seeing the utter hypocrisy of her words. Or, not caring about them. She looks like some average suburban mom in that pic…and dresses the way many women in contemporary American society dress.

    She also needs to find a more productive use of her time than worrying about what other women choose to wear. I cannot think of a bigger waste of my time and energy than trying to dictate what anyone else wears. Well, that actually goes for every other choice people who aren’t me are making about their lives.

  • Foxglove

    Just recently I saw a photo of Barack Obama in the Oval Office, side-by-side with the famous portrait of Louis XIV of France in all his finery. Obama in a suit and tie, Louis in a frilly blouse, short skirt, stockings and high heels–a get-up that was perfectly normal for a king in those days. The author of that piece pointed out that never have men been more drab in their clothing than they have been in modern times.

    I recall, too, once seeing a video of a young Indian-American and gay comedian doing his routine in a bar. One thing he said was something like, “Indian culture is so anti-gay, which is hard for me to understand because Indian culture is so–well, gay. When there’s a religious festival on, women are told, ‘Wear something long, flowing, colorful. Men–same thing.'”

    Culture can be hard to explain.

  • John Pieret

    That’s why I included “what can only be described as” because that is what most people would describe it as. I was trying to convey that it wasn’t the kind of suit (narrow jacket buttoning right over left and skirt or flared pants combos) that women attorneys typically wear. She wears full-on “man-tailored” clothes.

  • Almost a chimp

    John, I think it was the ‘dress shit‘ that Foxglove was referring to. :-))

  • Sonyaj

    I always marvel at the fashions back in those earlier times, both for men and women, especially of royalty or high society. I am assuming that wearing those highly impractical, no doubt uncomfortable “peacock” type clothes was an indication these people were of the leisure class and didn’t have to do any actual work. The peasants were wearing the practical, more comfortable, no-frills clothing. I’m guessing comfort and practicality finally gave way over the need to be seen as higher in society. Now, there are designer and couture brands for that, some of which are still impractical and ridiculous looking ;).

    I read a really interesting take on the whole history of the tie, and what it represented when men wore/wear it. I think it may have been in the book by Bill Bryson At Home: A Short History of Private Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003F3FJGY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 It was a great book, highly recommended.

  • Nightshade

    She has been asked what charities she supports, or would suggest supporting, and for ideas on how to help the poor since in Proverbs 31 there is a specific statement that the virtuous woman ‘stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.’ Every time, as far as I know, the inquiries have been ignored or deleted. Guess that’s another part of the Bible Lori feels free to ignore.

  • Allison the Great

    Why yes, yes I have cross dressed today, thank you for asking, Lori and Douche Bag Dalrock. There’s no such thing as dressing “feminine” when it’s this fucking cold outside.

  • katiehippie

    How young were her parents when they got married? They don’t look ancient.

  • katiehippie

    Manly men do not wear skirts, manly men do wear kilts. Ergo, kilts are not skirts.
    That hurt my head to type.

  • Sonyaj

    So, I went to the blog and read her post, and the comments! Oy…I wanted to smack some of those idiots with a Clue Bat. So ripe for trolling, they are, as is Lori. I posted a reply to one of them – Elizabeth – who was trying to insist that someone else should wear skirts in Wisconsin even though it’s absurdly cold. Alas, the comment was awaiting moderation, which means it won’t be posted (because, yes, it was a tad snarky).

    Seriously, these uptight bitches need to get a life and a new hobby other than trying to force everyone to wear skirts and dresses.

    You are right about the post being highly offensive to women in uniform who serve and protect in their various capacities. Then again, in Lori’s world, women shouldn’t be in those professions anyway (police, fire-fighters, paramedics, military, etc.).

  • John Pieret

    Ah! … speeling … always my strong … uh … suit!

  • persephone
  • persephone

    Duck boots and thick socks. And wool insoles.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Fussing over a dress code that he never bothered to spell out.

  • persephone

    The wigs were common for about 1 1/2 to 2 centuries. Heels for men lasted a shorter period, but then transferred to women’s fashion. Louis XIV limited the high red heels to himself. Louboutin supposedly chose his red soles based on this.

    Fine fabrics and fancy clothes were highly common among the nobility well back in the Middle Ages. Reading clothing records of the nobility of the middle ages is fascinating. Silk, velvet, gold, silver, jewels. Trade with the Far East had been going on for millennia.

    The average person would have worn drabber, simpler, rougher clothing. Even the wealthier members of the middle class were limited under sumptuary laws from displaying their wealth through clothing. Woad, which was an amazing, but horribly stinky, blue dye was common. Muted reds could only be obtained by the lower classes from berries, as red dye was extremely rare.

  • Aloha

    Bicycle skirts / divided skirts came even before that.
    Those unfeminine hussies willing to wear anything to keep their underwear from showing!

  • Aloha

    Boxer shorts are for night-time in Summer. My husband finds them decidedly unsexy, but I love them. Basically, they’re very inexpensive and lightweight, so they make perfect pajamas.

  • Aloha

    “Embrace their biological sex insofar as it may be known.”
    There’s a statement for posterity!

  • paganheart

    There’s something oozing from that all right….but it sure ain’t love.

  • Zeldacat

    *shallow* I LOVE a man in a kilt! Mmm!

  • AFo

    Laughing while reading this because I’m wearing yoga pants, the garments from Hell itself that incite Lori’s rage like nothing else. She seriously needs to get a grip on reality. Skirts and dresses are nice, but considering how cold and windy it’s been in New York lately, pants are a better option for keeping my legs warm. I dare her to come up here for a few days and try to go about her day in a skirt when the wind chill makes it feel like 10 below or worse outside. At these temperatures, you can barely tell men and women apart because everyone is wearing ten layers when they go outside. It has nothing to do with sin, and everything to do with not wanting to get frostbite.

  • AFo

    Do mine eyes deceive me? Is that Lori in…LEGGINGS!?! Welp, girls, we’ve lost her, there’s no hope for the rest of us now. Might as well sin as much as we want, if Satan can get a Good Christian Woman like Lori Alexander, clearly we’re all headed straight to Hell. /s

  • Mel

    That reminds me of a great video about how Canada wanted to run for the presidency of the USA. The person standing in as Canada pointed out that racism isn’t a problem in most of Canada because it’s so cold that no one can tell anyone’s gender or skin color – with pictures of people walking around in arctic wear including gloves, face masks and goggles as proof.

    I went for groceries today. The temperature was 17 degrees F – which isn’t much below normal for Michigan this time of year – but we had a consistent 20mph wind. I made the mistake of trying to bring my groceries in without gloves and had to wait for my hands to stop stinging/aching from the cold before I could unpack…..

  • guerillasurgeon

    God help us, it’s almost 30°, we’re all sitting around praying for rain, and I am wearing a lavalava because it’s just about all I can bear. I wonder how she’d handle that. Mind you, just up the road there is a Kirikiti competition, and everyone is wearing them.

  • NikkiofAmystika

    I second the graphic tees thing.

  • NikkiofAmystika

    Cold snap here in Ohio, too. Most of the highs this past week have been in either the teens or the single digits, when the average highs are in the 30s. We won’t get back to that average until Sunday.

  • TLC

    Your comment about the Clue Bat is now my official blog quote of the night. Thanks!

  • Kathi

    1. Thank you for the hilarious title! You made me laugh!

    2. I was bothered that Lori used a female police officer for her picture of this post. Officers wear a uniform – attire meant to make a unit look as one. She should thank God that police departments do not discriminate against women based upon what they are required to wear. These women lay their lives on the line for to keep her safe every day.

    3. Lori offers nothing with this post when the rules are easily changed because a husband thinks it’s okay for his wife to wear pants. Lori has stated that Ken approves of her wearing pants, so why bother writing this?

    4. When you think long and hard, how often do people really question if a person is a man or a woman based upon how he/she is dressed? I would think it’s pretty rare for most people.

  • bekabot

    On a strictly practical level…it’s possible for women to ‘cross-dress’ (if you want to call it that) in clothes which were originally made for men because the only real physical problems a woman will run into when doing it is that men’s garments are going to tend to be big for her and won’t fit closely…but maybe that’s exactly the point: maybe that’s the look and feel she’s after. A man who’s wearing women’s clothing will have to wrestle with garments which are too small and which fit the wrong way. (There’s a great scene in Ed Wood in which Johnny Depp — who’s not a large man — runs into exactly this obstacle.) When La Lori wore shorts she was obviously wearing women’s shorts, not men’s…those things fit and they fit well. The only way you could label them as men’s clothes is if you’re playing Definition Derby.

  • bekabot

    If you’re pointing out that her notion of modest garb (for women) is regional in nature and that many of the women she condemns for dressing mannishly are in fact vastly more modest in their attire, and in their total look, than are women who wear the kind(s) of clothes of which she approves, then I agree with you 100%.

  • Saraquill

    I had an exchange with that fundy. She had no rebuttal when I offered up judicial robes, graduation gowns, hakama, etc.

  • Saraquill

    It’s not even good weather for pants wearing, unless it’s loose enough for layering underneath. Que me being perplexed when I see people outside wearing thin-ass leggings.

  • Saraquill

    I’m a touch disappointed no one’s wearing yoga pants.

  • Mimc

    I find the snug fit of leggings nice in cold weather but not as the outermost layer.

  • SAO

    Except I doubt they wore underpants in Biblical times and I suspect Lori would have heart attacks at the idea that women should be naked under their long skirts.

  • SAO

    You could also argue that signaling you are of the right class makes it easier for you to make connections that will serve you well in the future — whether it be finding a husband or a job. If you are of the ‘better’ class you’ll find a better job or husband. In short, it could be an economic leg up, rather than to allow you to sneer at ‘poor white trash’.

    My mother fussed over grammar and manners, too. The grammar meant I did really well on any standardized test involving grammar, like the English sections of the SAT, GMAT and Foreign Service exams. I got into a top college, a top business school and did well enough on the Foreign Service exam to advance to the second round, the orals, which I did not pass, but not because of my grammar or tableware knowledge.

  • SAO

    “it may be known” implies the knowing is done by someone other than the intersex individual.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    No one wore underwear until more recent times. Lori would definitely flip out if she knew that. That little underwear factoid is the only thing that kept me from joining the Mormon church in the late 80s. I knew that there was no way that ancient Americans did not have special holy underwear. Oh, the crazy things that you’ll pick up in college.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Have you ever tried the fleece ones? They are heaven in cold weather, particularly under jeans.

  • Saraquill

    Then her reaction upon learning Victorian women wore open crotch underwear.

  • Saraquill

    I was unaware of fleece leggings, but I don’t think I should wear them. Fuzzy material against dry skin is my tactile equivalent of nails on a chalkboard. :/

  • Lily Erickson

    Good thing I have my time machine all fired up so I can go back to 1890 and buy some flannel petticoats and wool skirts.

  • Nightshade

    The guys get all the good tees, and I do get a lot of mine from the men’s department!

  • Foxglove

    I’ve read it. And yes, it is worth reading.

  • Anat

    Western leaders switched from frilly to practical when the political system switched from absolute monarchy to parliamentary democracy, and the leaders started being perceived as people working a job for the populace. The outfit of choice – the suit – was what bankers and lawyers wore to work, as this was the class out of which politicians tended to come. IOW they just wore to parliament what they were already used to wearing for work.

  • phatkhat

    Can you imagine how HEAVY all that would be? And trying to sit down??? Nah. Give me my cotton sweats!

  • AnonCar

    As to cold weather, her commenters recommended flannel petticoats and wool skirts.

    I don’t see how either of those garments prevent drafts. Seriously, drafts are a thing. I *hated* the rule about wearing dresses/skirts to church when I was a kid, but most especially in winter because of the drafts. That short walk from parking lot to building could freeze your nethers!

  • Quinsha

    Especially if they got wet in sleet or rain. Then they would be Heavy, Smelly, AND Itchy.

  • lady_black

    When I was heavier, I had no problems wearing my husband’s jeans. And sometimes discovered that I mistakenly HAD put his jeans in my closet and worn them.
    I don’t imagine shorts would be any different. I could still buy men’s jeans if I wanted to, and make them work. They just wouldn’t be 36 waist and 32 inseam. Probably 28 waist and 32 inseam like when I was a teen, and painter’s pants were in fashion. If my nephew (who is very slender and slightly built) can make it work, so could I. I wear exclusively men’s socks. They are warmer, cheaper, and more durable than women’s, and nobody can tell the difference.

  • Quinsha

    My husband and I sat down to a ‘formal’ dinner once. He was looking at the forks and wondering how to use them. I told him that my 8th grade teacher from Appalachia told her class that if we ever found ourselves in that situation, to use the forks from the outside of the setting first, and to work our way inwards as the courses changed. He looked, saw that was what the others at the table were doing, and we had a nice dinner.

  • phatkhat

    Yup. When I was a kid (50s/60s), girls had to wear skirts/dresses to public school. A LOT of us wore pants under and took ’em off once we were indoors. You could seriously get frostbite waiting for the bus!

  • phatkhat

    Yes, yes, yes! Divine. Now if only they would make them a tad larger. If anyone knows where to get TRUE queen-size ones, let me know. Walmart and eBay have both had 3x ones that were probably US 1x – Chinese made stuff runs small.

  • AnonCar

    I usually don’t fuss over putting extra layers beyond boots on when walking the trash bin to the curb (hoodie and sweatpants are the norm this time of year (gasp!!)), but yesterday it was boots, coat, gloves over my hoodie over my pajamas. Ladylike attire be damned, that wind cuts through you like a knife right now.

  • AnonCar

    The only trouble I’ve ever had with men’s vs women’s jeans is that men’s jeans don’t have a lot of spare room around the hips/butt. I’d buy them in a heartbeat if I could get what fits around my waist up around my ass first.

  • AnonCar

    In the 80s/early 90s there were heavier weight tights for little girls (I’m guessing there still are). They were scratchy and did jack-diddly about the wind.

  • Quinsha

    Today I am wearing docker pants from the men’s section (Hurrah for actual pockets that work!), a man’s shirt, women’s panties, women’s sneakers, and men’s socks (they tend to last longer). I also happen to be wearing a woman’s bra, but then I have yet to see a man’s bra (though I don’t doubt that they exist). The point is, I am comfortable, can do housework/yardwork while wearing this outfit, and can go out grocery shopping without having to change to something else.

  • Quinsha

    Just looked up lavalava. Looks practical for warm weather. I wear something that I call a sundress for the same reason when it gets above 100 F here.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I had full wool tights I wore in winter when I lived in Germany. Scratchy indeed but warmer than bare legs in the winter

  • Quinsha

    #4 used to throw me when I was a kid being raised in the Southern USA in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Not knowing meant that I did not know how to treat them or how to act around them. Could I or could I not look this person in the eyes when talking? Could I initiate conversation with them or did I have to wait for them to do so? Could I cut in front of them when walking on the sidewalk or did I have to stay behind until they turned a corner? All these little things were expected, depending on whether you were male or female, and whether the other person was male or female. As a girl with Asperger’s syndrome in a society where you could be switched for not picking up on social cues, this could be worrying.

    Since then I have grown up, moved away from there, learned other social cues, and gave up giving a darn if someone is male or female in my interaction with them.

  • Saraquill

    For those reasons I held a grudge against adults, books etc. saying they were warm. Twas a bald faced lie.

  • Sonyaj

    This totally makes sense. I remember reading about the whole idea of the symbolic significance clothing in the Bill Bryson book I referenced, but it was a couple of years ago that I read it, and a lot of the details have faded. I found it really interesting, because I’d never given the actual history of clothing much thought.

  • bekabot

    I wore 501’s for years and years until I finally got tired of it a broke down and bought nice stretchy 311’s (which I’m very happy with so far). So, I hear ya.

  • bekabot

    They are warmer, cheaper, and more durable than women’s, and nobody can tell the difference.

    There’s lots of men’s clothes which are just plain better made than women’s are, except at the extreme upper end of the spectrum. Evidence of sexism, I suppose, though no doubt the garment manufacturers would say if asked that they’re only dealing with changes in fashion — though changes in fashion could be interpreted as more evidence of sexism. (There can’t be much doubt that that’s what it amounts to in effect, whatever people’s reasons may be, because the end result is that women, as a class, wind up paying more and getting less.)

    At any rate, I’ve got a collection of men’s shirts that I’ve acquired here and there and I’ve been wearing some of them for more than thirty years…and while they don’t look new they don’t look unduly worn. (One of them is a very fine Oxford shirt I picked up in a warehouse store in Ohio; I got a discount because of a few faint pinkish stains it picked up while being processed.) There’s no way most women’s shirts would have lasted as long, or still be in as good condition, unless they were made by…I dunno…Pendleton or some similar outfit and unless they’d cost a lot more than I initially paid for them.

  • lady_black

    The making of women’s garments is in large part, a huge racket. The same with hair cuts and dry cleaning. I used to go to a barber shop for haircuts, because I could get the same cut for less money.
    That’s mostly not the case any more, as salons are unisex, and so are barber shops. But it used to be the case years ago, that women paid more for the same service until they got smart and put a stop to it.
    In clothing, sadly, it is still the case that they charge more for women’s items that they do for men’s. That’s why I wear men’s socks.

  • Anonyme

    Apparently it IS okay to wear warm pants to keep from freezing to death…as long as you wear a skirt over them. Although I am wondering what bike riders will do. Maybe women aren’t allowed to ride bikes, either, though.

  • Anonyme

    According to the commenters (on Lori’s post) who are going after a woman who said she lives in a region where temperature makes pants-wearing unavoidable, a woman CAN wear pants in winter but they have to be covered with a skirt.

  • SAO

    Maybe making it holy was the way Mormons sold it to their flock when it began it be available, but not everyone adopted it and the earlier adopters started to think going without it was shocking.

  • Nightshade

    Why does Lori give any instructions to women beyond submission? She says that pretty much anything is fine if a woman’s ̶o̶w̶n̶e̶r̶ husband allows/commands it, so why bother? Oh, wait…she needs controversy so she can go viral again.

  • Adrian

    Wonder what she’d say about the robes worn by old-timey judges, the cassocks of traditionalist priests or the robes of bishops and higher-level Catholic witch doctor. 😛

  • zizania

    Me too. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen “Monarch of the Glen”, but watching Duncan running around in his kilt and work boots makes me all melty. And I’m old enough to be his grandmother.

  • Hannah

    I used to love that TV programme! I think some of it went over my head, (I wasn’t that old at the time,) but it’s something I miss.

  • AuntKaylea

    Reading this, I thought of this picture. Maybe Lori wants to be seen as cross-dressing and is disappointed that no one is recognizing it?

  • otrame

    It’s okay. You may be as old as me, but I myself am still able to appreciate the wonders of nature.

  • otrame

    Or just a pair of work boots from Walmart. Heavy soles, steel caps, lace up to prevent ankle problems. If you get them a bit big (which most women have to because they don’t make them in women’s sizes) you can vary your socks by season and there you go. They do take a while to break in, but I walked many miles, and traversed many construction sites in mine. Now I am retired, I still use them for walking in rough country. And best of all, they’re cheap.

  • otrame

    I wore my husband’s tights whiteys when I was pregnant both times. Cotton and comfy, stayed up even tucked under my enlarging tummy. Finding cotton undies for women was not easy at the time. These days that’s not a problem.

  • otrame

    Ah, Lori, you bring back the memories. When I was a pre-teen, my mother would not leave the yard in jeans. Whenever we went shopping she had to go in and change.

    But times change. I’m not sure she even has a dress anymore. I only have a couple, rarely worn.

  • otrame

    Basically, watch what other people are doing.

  • persephone

    Silks were highly available, and velvets starting around the 14th century, as long as you had the money. As well as special dyes, such as red. It always comes back to money.

    While the 17th and 18th centuries had a lot of lace and frills, fine needlework in silk thread, additionally in actual gold and silver thread for the nobility, was common for centuries before that. It was much more expensive and involved than the overwrought fripperies of the baroque and rococo, especially after the improvement of mechanical looms. Even Margaret Beaufort, who often put on a show of ascetism, is portrayed with fine blackwork embroidery on her headpiece. Damask fabrics were available. Th

    Woad dying involved mixing the dried, fermented plant with water and urine and cooking it. Woad dyers were required by law to have their production a certain distance away from the rest of the town due to the stench. There’s an episode of The Worst Jobs in History about the Middle Ages which includes a section on woad dying. It’s quite fascinating.

    1 1/2 to 2 centuries is quite a long period for fashion styles, especially after the first millennium CE. Of course, the wigs varied greatly during this period.

  • otrame

    Bryson is one of my favorites. I especially liked “One Summer: American 1927” but my all time favorite is “A Short History of Nearly Everything” which is about science and scientists and though a tad out of date, is still a wonderful primer those who want to know how we figure things out.

  • Sonyaj

    Yeah, exactly. “We must uphold to our ridiculous, self-created standards of appropriate clothing for wiminfolk, regardless of how dangerous or impractical it is, because Jesus.” Or whatever.

    Who the hell wants to wear a damn skirt over some pants in the middle of a blizzard in WI? Most of THOSE idiots, I guess. If I had some husband like that, and he tried to tell me I needed to wear a dress/skirt at all times, I’d tell him to stuff that right up his ass.

    That may or may not be a reason I was only married for 1 1/2 years, and never wanted to re-marry…. 😉

  • Anonyme

    In ‘The Long Winter’, one of the later books in the ‘Little House’ series, Laura Ingalls Wilder goes into detail about how much layering girls/women had to have under dresses to keep warm in extreme cold, and this was under flannel petticoats and woolen dresses. So, one could have a skirt of the thickest wool/flannel available but it wouldn’t do any good in winds or drafts if there’s not more underneath.

  • Anonyme

    She’ll counter that by saying Ken ordered her to, just like she was wearing shorts (horrors!) in another photo.

  • Allison the Great

    Um, that seems more than unnecessary.

  • Snowflake

    Yeah. I do wear leggings, but am layered.

  • Snowflake

    Well, mostly I was whining about being so cold. It’s warmer now :-).

  • Snowflake

    Finally back to normal. Saturday did not break zero. Positive, when it is that cold we don’t get snow and it’s sunny.

    Enjoy the heat wave!

  • Snowflake

    Smart idea!

  • Snowflake

    Gonna google that, thanks.

  • Snowflake

    Yeah, she can come stay with me. Wonder what she would think of wind up her skirt?

    I really did not mean how that sounded.

  • Snowflake

    I hear San Diego has near perfect weather.

  • Snowflake

    Yeah. It’s good to have a husband and grown son. Lots of clothes to choose from.

  • Gestalty Bitch, Still a Prof

    I went through some difficulty with this a few months back regarding the idea of cross-dressing. I was at a convention that was having a drag night, and everyone from our team was expected to attend. My girlfriend (non-binary) and I (trans) had a lot of trouble processing the event and decided not to go—went and played Ski-Ball at Circus Circus instead—but it is somewhat difficult. For me, with my closet full of dresses, skirts, tunics, to say nothing of every other part of my wardrobe, is all “women’s” clothing. But I also identify as a trans-woman, so for me it’s not cross-dressing.

    I think Lori and I should go shopping some time. I think she could find it enlightening.

  • NikkiofAmystika

    We’re going to have highs in the 40s tomorrow, 50s Thursday, 40s Friday, then snow Saturday and highs in the 20s at least through Monday, probably longer. So a brief heat wave and then something more normal. Typical Ohio roller coaster. Oh well-I’ll take anything that’s not the New Year’s cold snap!

  • Snowflake

    Currently it is 51 degrees. It is heaven! Back to below zero this weekend.
    Enjoy your warm up.