When Patriarchs Advertise Their Daughters

When Patriarchs Advertise Their Daughters August 30, 2018

There is a cartoon I love on The Oatmeal that depicts Godzilla going back into the ocean while flipping double birds and muttering, “Nope, nope, nope!” This post could be amptly illustrated by that cartoon. I need to buy the coffee mug of a cute kitten saying ‘Nope’ right now for those times like right freaking now! I’ve made the mistake of reading Larry Solomon’s comments at his site Biblical Gender Roles and I call them ‘When patriarchs advertise their daughters.’

Like the part in every super hero movie ever made when every imaginable villian shows up to mess with the hero lately we’re seeing something like that occuring in comments.  Von Ohlman showing up on Lori Alexander’s Facebook page to drool over the notion of virgins. Now Lori’s commenter and close friend of her husband Ken has shown up at Larry’s joint to offer his young adult daughter for marriage. He’s already tried hawking her on Lori’s Facebook page replete with his email address asking for interested parties to contact him. I guess we should be happy she’s in her twenties instead of underaged like Von’s preference. Posting screencaps of the comments, Larry chiming in and the scary disgusting words of one of Larry’s most fervent readers.

Larry boy responds:

One of BGR’s regulars chimes in and it’s much worse than trying to match up daughters.

Jonadab The Rechabite:

And Larry quoting and answering this guy:

50 women to 1 man having sex outside of marriage? So are all those women having sex with each other? The fuzzy math is making my head hurt.

All of these comments are up on Larry’s last post, the one that said nasty things about the admirable lady Anna Howard Shaw.


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NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

I Fired God by Jcoelyn Zichtermann

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About Suzanne Titkemeyer
Suzanne Titkemeyer went from a childhood in Louisiana to a life lived in the shadow of Washington D.C. Now she's retired from her cornucopia of bad jobs to be a full time beach bum in Tamarindo, Costa Rica with the monkeys and iguanas. She is a true thalassophile. She also left behind years in a Quiverfull church and loves to chronicle the worst abuses of that particular theology. You can read more about the author here.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Trey’s daughter went to community college, has a job and a car, which means she is not always under Daddy’s eye. So he actually has no idea whether she has ever been on a date or whether she has ever been kissed by a suitor. Maybe she has a plan to save up enough of an nest egg to leave town and live her own life, and meanwhile knows exactly what to say to dad to keep him from suspecting a thing.

  • Pen Guin

    My thoughts exactly…if she is working a full time job that’s a long time away from Mother’s Eye and in the company of fornicators!

  • pinkie
  • Samantha Vimes

    I read that as “the bible condemns harlots 50 times for every time it reminds men not to fornicate”. I.E. It’s a sin for both but it’s more important to shame women.
    Also, apparently, the guys chatting are hoping to be like King Solomon and have a lot of wives since they aren’t supposed to fornicate but God made them to make many women pregnant.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Side note: not sure what Bible these people are reading. From memory:
    The Gospels have three female “fornicators”, the woman taken in adultery, whom Jesus forgives, and the woman who washes his feet with her tears and the Samaritan woman, both of which come out rather well. All Jesus’s teaching on sex issues (such as it was) is directed at men.
    The New Testament letters condemn illicit sex by men and women indiscriminately, and I am not aware of any examples being given.
    In the OT it is condemnation of adultery in the law is invariably directed at both parties.
    In the OT I can’t think offhand of one example of a woman being condemned for fornication other than Onan’s wife Tamar, who was innocent, and the only prostitute named to my recollection is Rahab, who was a hero.
    The only villainous woman I can think of was Jezebel, whose crime was persecuting the prophets of YHWH and promoting Baal: as far as I can recall she is never stated to have committed any kind of sexual misconduct and was faithful to her husband.
    OTOH, sexual misconduct by men in Sodom contributed to the destruction of their city, by Israelites in “taking” (AKA seizing and raping) Canaanite women is stated to have been the downfall of the nation, and by David “taking” Bathsheba the family conflict that eventually caused the kingdom to split apart. I am sure there are other examples I can’t immediately think of.
    The Bible does repeatedly talk about “harlots”, but in reference to the men of Israel, it’s (male) rulers and Israel as a whole “cheating” on God.

  • Jennny

    Yup my friend and I went to a x-tian youth group in our teens. Her older sister came with us, clothed ‘modestly’ bible tucked under her arm, bag in hand and left us at the church door, went to the nearby Wimpy Bar and opened her bag and changed into skimpy clothes, high heels and put on make up! I was secretly in awe at her brazen hussy ways..Her parents almost died of shame when she got pregnant at 17 and had a shotgun wedding – but they’re still married over 50yrs later.

  • Saraquill

    The Middle Eastern hippy was conceived outside of marriage. This does not make him or his mom lesser beings. Once more, Larry and company prove to worship their genitals more than anything else.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    I think it more accurate to say that Larry & co are trying to make everybody else worship their genitals by telling them God said so.

  • There is so much wrong with what these guys are saying. That women are gatekeepers, that it is important for women to be virgins, that they are marked, that their purpose in life is to be mothers and serve a husband. That they are advertising their daughters is reprehensible.

  • zizania

    That was my take on it as well. And do you think the Bible might condemn women more than men because….just a thought….it was written by men in a society that was run by men?

  • AFo

    I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s putting on an act while waiting for the right time to escape. Trey is clueless because appearances are everything in this culture, and as long as his little girl is projecting the right image, he’s happy.

  • bekabot

    Bravo.

  • MarkInCA

    These liars are STILL mad they can’t own people! Seriously, they want to own their wives and daughters! They’ve been mad since the sixties…the EIGHTEEN sixties!

  • bekabot

    Aside from my usual objections to this line of thinking (first, that it assumes that every baby girl is born owing some man or other more than her soul; second, that in it rival males are pitted against each other to the exclusion of the woman they’re supposedly fighting over, so that their real relationship is with each other and not with her; and last, that virtually none of it has anything to do with the Bible) — I’m beginning at last to understand why so many Evangelical daughters wind up still looking for husbands in their thirties and even later, although they’ve been taught from birth that their destiny is to get married and have kids. For years I’ve been puzzled as to why that should be. I mean, Amish girls are brought up to be wives and mothers, and by and large, that’s the way they end up; Mennonite girls are brought up to be wives and mothers and their fate is the same; Orthodox Jewish girls are expected to get married — as virgins — and most of the time they do. But Fundagelical women, not inevitably but often, spend their twenties and thirties selling plant-based remedies (etc.) online while babysitting their younger relatives and living with their parents. Why is that? By know I think I know.

    It has to do with the idea that the moment a human female infant pops out of her Mom and wails, she’s indebted to some man, a man unknown to her, a man who has yet to appear, for her body, her soul, her well-being, her honor, her loyalty, her room and board, her good name, her uterus, her spiritual/psychological/physical integrity, every egg she releases throughout her lifetime and every notion in her head — and that if she in any way interacts with a human male creature who is not That Man she is cheating That Man, and that if she cheats That Man she will answer for it to God in the end. I suspect that Evangelical men devised this doctrine principally in order to keep their daughters freaked out and under control, and that they themselves (the devisers of the doctrine) don’t strictly believe it, but I (also) suspect their daughters do believe it; or, that even if they (meaning Evangelical girls and women) don’t buy into this bill of goods in its entirety, all the same they hear it so often, repeated so loudly and with so much harrumphing, that it affects their behavior nevertheless. The point is — they’re told over and over again that they need to give themselves (or to be given) to some one particular man. But how are they supposed to know which man it is? They’re not allowed any opportunity to find out, and whatever attempts they make in that direction can all too easily be interpreted as efforts to rip off The One Guy.

    (It’s true that the parents of Fundagelical girls could marry them off; but, then, that involves work, along with access to a genuine tradition and not one which is ersatz. At any rate — for some reason — it tends not to happen.)

    As per usual, JMO.

  • Julia Childress

    “raise up a child in the fundy cult, and when he(she) is old, he will not be able to part from it, unless said child is very lucky.” Julia 1:1

  • Julia Childress

    I think that you are absolutely right about the fact that many of these men don’t actually believe in what they are promoting. What has happened (courtesy of Bill Gothard and others) is that the fundys have developed the perfect formula – that is what it is, a formula – to keep a child, especially a daughter in the cult forever. There are many steps in the formula, but if parents follow it to the letter, then it leaves little room for any other outcome. First, you have to have a lot of children (for a couple of reasons). Then you homeschool and possibly home church. You live rurally so that there are no pesky secular neighbor kids that you have to deal with. You allow no outside influences into your home – no TV, no radio, no internet (except very restricted for homeschooling), no newspapers, no magazines, no books, and no friends, except for those that support your values. Next, you make sure your homeschool curriculum supports your religious beliefs. Then you assign each child an accountability partner (AP), meaning a sibling who will tell if their partner seems likely to stray. Once they can drive, they can never leave the house without the AP. Children are never allowed to be in the company of non-family members (hence the need for a large family, so plenty of playmates). Place a lot of emphasis on modesty and take quick punitive action if someone gets out of line. Teach instant obedience to parents. If necessary, send a child who is in danger of thinking independently to something like ALERT Academy, or Journey to the Heart. Channel the child into an early marriage, knowing that there will be an immediate pregnancy. And voila! you’ve pretty much got that child for life. The Duggars are masters of this cult programming.

  • smrnda

    You’re totally right with the ‘genuine vs ersatz tradition.’ Matchmaking is a longstanding tradition in many Jewish communities. Young women (and men) growing up in those communities are continuing a tradition similar to what their parents, grandparents, great-grant-parents etc experienced. But these evangelicals didn’t grow up this way – they’ve invented a subculture out of nothing.

    And I totally agree that it’s control, and in many cases, a way to exploit the labor of adult daughters. That’s probably why you seem them engaging in MLM and other scam type businesses.

  • persephone

    I stayed under the radar until I was 23, when I moved out of my grandmother’s home and in with my first husband.

  • persephone

    Every day, I am mentally that badger.

  • B.E. Miller

    I’m wondering if Trey’s ad is something that should be reported to the police….

  • B.E. Miller

    Now I’m remembering some of the young Indian women who used to work at Kmart, (part-time) and were in college. Many of them were seeing some guy (usually another Indian guy, because only they understand why the young women have to sneak around their Indian parents.)

    And work is a great place to meet these guys, and it’s a great place for them to see the guys. Like sometimes the guys would meet the young women during their lunches.

    Their parents had no idea…. (and we co-workers would cover for the young women too!)

  • B.E. Miller

    There might be liberals, atheists, and feminists there, oh my!

  • frostysnowman

    So gross, all of it. I am literally nauseated after reading this.

  • tatortotcassie

    In the Book of Daniel (only in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox bibles) Susannah was bathing on her own property in privacy when three elders started spying on her. Then, because they got pants-feels from the voyeurism, they claimed she was a whore who had tempted them. Luckily Daniel is able to prove that the elders are lying because he questions them one by one and they couldn’t get their stories straight.

  • tatortotcassie

    Jesus asked the crowed about to stone the woman for adultery where the man was who had been with her. Crickets. (But of course, it’s let go at that.)

  • tatortotcassie

    Yep. My parents are actually pretty cool about letting their (adult) kids make their own decisions, but they still have no clue about the sorts of things I got up to at and after college. And that’s perfectly fine for all of us. I don’t offer details and they don’t ask questions.

    As for my brother, my mom said she knows he and his live-in girlfriend are having sex and she doesn’t like that they’re “shacking up” but they’re both adults so it’s none of her business.

  • taylor_serenil

    Hey, sometimes “shotgun marriages” work out, and I’m glad your friend’s sister’s apparently did.

  • Aibrean

    And if course Trey writes that his unfortunate daughter does this ‘out of respect for me and the God she serves’. Which makes his sense of priority fairly clear, I think. Trey, as with so many fundagelical men, seems to view himself as essentially more important than the god he claims to believe in and forces on his unfortunate children. We can only hope that the children will be able to do what some of the Westboro Baptist kids did and escape.

  • Carstonio

    They don’t even pretend that they’re treating their daughters as something other than breeding stock.

  • lady_black

    There is no physical sign of virginity in men or women. These men are advertising their ignorance. How do you determine virginity? I’m sorry, you have to take their word for it. And why does it matter?

  • lady_black

    Amish join the church as adults not as children. The same with Mennonites. Mennonites are pretty much like any other people, except for their manner of dress, which is plain. They have cars and refrigerators. Their children, male and female, pursue higher education. Women are encouraged to work outside the home.
    The Amish have a tradition where young adults are allowed to experience the world outside their culture. They drink, smoke, dance, wear secular clothing, etc. Then they either return to the church or they don’t. Most do. A good friend of my brother is formerly Amish. Today’s Amish also frequently work in secular pursuits to earn a living. They form construction crews, and hire drivers from among the English. The women make things and sell them, operate stands in farmer’s markets and so forth. They just don’t drive cars, or have electricity in the home. In the barn, yes. They don’t have landlines. Cell phones, yes. They need them for work, and they’re battery operated. They can charge their cell phones in the barn.

  • texassa

    There is no physical sign of virginity in women and girls. Just add this to the long list of things these men don’t know about women’s bodies, or much else for that matter.

  • bekabot

    I remember a bit about this from the time when I was living around the Great Lakes: there’s quite a few Amish settlements in that part of the country and some Mennonite ones. There are neighborhoods in which it’s not uncommon to see Amish men driving their horse-drawn rigs over bridges and down roads. I remember shopping in warehouse stores and spotting groups of Amish (who’d been ferried in in vans driven by non-Amish for-hire drivers) especially on the weekends. And of course at any street fair there would be loads of Amish women selling things from booths.

    I never saw much of the Amish or spent much time hanging around with them, but two things I did notice: first, that their vibe was very different from that given off by industry-standard evangelicals; and second, that most of the kids who grew up in their society signed one for the whole program as adults.

  • bekabot

    behold our future overlords

  • lady_black

    Well, I live in PA Dutch country. I worked at the Osteopathic hospital the Amish favor. And my dad drives the Amish for his retirement gig.
    It’s pretty cool for him. He drives their vehicle, so they pay for the insurance. They pay him $10 an hour, but it’s all cash. And he’s been able to go on trips he probably couldn’t afford otherwise, because if he takes them to Florida (or some other nice place), they put him up and pay for his meals. Any entertainment he partakes in on his off time is his only expense. Not bad work at all. If I could get it, I would take it.

  • Just4You

    If my recollection of xian girls from my teen years tracks with others, I’m preeeeeeeetty sure these dad’s are in for a surprise