Tale of Two Nations

After witnessing the Democratic and Republican conventions, and watching the polls for Romney and Obama it seems increasingly clear to me that our country is fundamentally divided. The polls have the two candidates running neck and neck. It seems that exactly half the citizens are in favor of one and the other half of the population favors the other.

It would be easy to categorize this divide with any manner of explanations: Financial Division “We are talking about the haves and the have nots!” Problem is there are rich Democrats and poor Republicans. The class struggle: “The Democrats are for the poor workers. The Republicans are for the rich employers!” Problem is, there are plenty of top tier Democrats and plenty of working class Republicans. Social struggle: “This is about living together as community vs. self reliance and individual responsibility.”

None of these fully explain the divide in America. Read More.

  • http://www.LiveCatholic.net Marcy K.

    Very well said. I have thought this for a long time, and as time goes on it becomes more apparent every day.

  • Ted Seeber

    Here’s my problem. I find believers in God voting both Democrat and Republican. I find atheists who vote both Democrat and Republican. And I still see the fatal theological flaw of Americanism being disordered liberty.

    • kenneth

      “Disordered Liberty”! I like that. It sounds like it could be the name of a new thrash metal band or Ramones tribute. The guys could play in tri-corner hats!

    • abb3w

      While there exist both atheists and theists who vote Democrat and Republican, the distribution appears significantly non-uniform.

      (Link via Berkeley SDA copy of the 2010 US General Social Survey.)

  • The Egyptian

    hit the nail square on t he head, driven in with one swing, I know many of the “second” type of “religious” person, they are totally nasty

  • Qualis Rex

    Father, I would not pay too much attention to the polls. I sternly believe Obama currently has a very decisive lead, but were the Democrats to reveal this, they would of course lose out on Millions of $$$ in campaign contributions. So, I think all this “neck and neck” business is all hype. However, this doesn’t necessarily diminish your observation of a divided America. But from recent events, I’d say it is probably divided into fourths; far-left, center-left, far-right, center-right. I didn’t watch either party’s convention, but I did see clips of the DNC when theyvoted on the ammendment to include “God” and “Jerusalem” in their platform. It could not be more apparent that there is a distinct division within that party. And the same can be said of the Republicans, who have in recent years subtly pandered to more radical and racist elements of the population without actually endosing these policies formally.

    Lastly, to your final point, I absolutely agree that the financial divide is pure smoke and mirrors. There are obviously obscenely rich Soros-type benefactors in the Democratic party who claim to speak for the poor, while taking every opportunity to limit the population growth of “those people”. It’s pure marketing; Dems speak to those who identify as poor while Republicans speak to those who identify as people who shouldn’t be poor.

    • Richard

      So, are you suggesting that the Office of the President and/or the Democratic party is somehow manipulating the polling data to deliberately deceive the American public for their own purposes and to further an outcome of the election that they desire? If so, how is this done, especially with the independent pollsters?

      • Qualis Rex

        There is no such thing as an “independent pollster”. And the president (or any president) and the Democratic party (or any political party) lying and manipulating polling data is an every day occurrence during election time. Not sure what planet you’re living on.

        • Richard

          Leaving aside your snide remark regarding my planetary habitation, perhaps you failed to notice that I asked a question. I did not make a statement or take a position. So, I will ask it again. If you maintain that the polls are manipulated by the President or the Democratic Party, then how do you think this is done and what evidence do you have to support your proposition?

    • The Egyptian

      are you suggesting that the Office of the President and/or the Democratic party is somehow manipulating the polling data
      remember
      one major polling firm just came under “justice dept” scrutiny two weeks ago, tit for tat maybe?

  • Robb

    My priest informed me a few weeks back that he suspects that American is under God’s judgement and if BHO is reelected that will confirm his suspicions.

    • Qualis Rex

      Well…the world and all of God’s creation is subject or “under” God’s judement. That’s Judeo-Christianity 101, so, not really an eye-popping revelation there.

    • kenneth

      People who believe the election of one president defines or portends “the end of days” or anything like it is a drama queens, pure and simple. They vastly overestimate the cosmological significance of one man while shrinking their own god down to the size of a sock puppet they can use to deliver their own petty human agendas. Whether Romney or Obama wins, the sun will come up again the next day, and the decay of our empire will continue on exactly the same trajectory based on social, political, and economic dynamics that are much, much bigger than either one of them.

      • Bernard

        Kenneth, you are so correct.

        • James

          I think not. There really are decisive times in history, where a decision one way or another makes all the difference. Generally we only see them in retrospect, but this seems rather clear prospectively. There will be problems for people of faith no matter who wins, certainly, but the extent and type can be expected to be very, very different. I have problems with both parties and much to disagree with in both platforms, but the aggressive way in which the current administration deals with Catholics–more so than any other faith–is going to get much, much worse if there is a second term. And the persecution that the good Father writes about will be on our doorstep. Already in place are laws that outlaw the way one thinks (the hate crimes laws which make the mind of the perpetrator a basis for more serious punishment)–will it really be such a difficult thing to get the legislators and the courts to buy into outlawing other thought as well? Already in other countries teaching traditional Christian beliefs is illegal. The secular world wants to make religion an entirely interior affair, and the Christian with is by nature outward directed. The clash is inevitable but there are differences in how it will play out and whether we can, as a society, preserve some measure of freedom for faith. Expect in the very near future these I’ve mentioned things here and then decide. This really is an important moment. The sun will still come up, but the world it illumines may be very, very different.

          • Qualis Rex

            I think Kenneth pretty much nailed it with his final sentence “the decay of our empire will continue”. No one objective person could argue that the current administration and general trend is very anti-Catholic, since historically it is the only one (save the Orthodox churches in their respective countries) with the strength to pose an actual threat to the random policy-making of the government (this power-struggle has been going on since the “writ of Constantine”). And I too believe we are in the midst of a “soft-persecution” which may increase. But I don’t think the Obama presidency is in any way Stalinist or dictatorial; he is representing like-minded people in this country. Therefore, regardless of who is president for the next 4 years, it’s the society at large that needs changing.

            Regarding your comment “Already in other countries teaching traditional Christian beliefs is illegal”, what countries are you referring to? Many Mohammedan and Communist countries have outlawed teaching Catholicism, but that is nothing new. In Canada and other more Socialist countries of Western Europe, there have been cases where individuals and groups have brought Catholics to court over teachings on abortion and homosexual “marriage” under anti-hate laws, but none were successful to my knowledge. So, where exactly is it now ilegal to teach “traditional chrisitian beliefs”? I’m allergic to hyperbole, so please indulge me here with this info.

  • http://www.marcusallensteele.com Marcus Allen Steele

    Left to their own finite abilities, people will sometimes deny God, at least their understanding of God, without ever knowing the truth about the authentic God. Because if they were open to that truth, with His grace, an entirely different light would illuminate the fallacy of their thinking.

    As to what might prevent this openness, many things come to mind––from indifference to ignorance to, and here’s the topper, pride. Without humility, a union with God is impossible.

  • Mark W.

    We’ve been lucky in America that last 200 years. It’s caught up to us.

    St. Augustine has pointed it out from the beginning of time–there is the City of Man and the City of God. And the men from the City of Man hate the men from the City of God and will do anything to destroy it.

  • Chris Nunez

    And pray tell, Rev. Longnecker, which are the ‘believers’ in God, and which are the non-believers’? Would that be a breakdown by political parties? This is the kind of propaganda that serves to divide people, and you are not helping!

  • Ginny

    The roar at the convention denying God, Jerusalem, and enthusiastically approving the murder of our weakest is akin to the Nuremberg Stadium roar. I don’t think Fr. Longenecker is indulging in hyperbole. I would like to indulge in hyperbole, though. The blood of martyrs will become the seed of Christians. I pray that our Church and its clergy will stand firm and refuse to accept any demands or make any concessions to the ideology of the Left.

    • Qualis Rex

      Ginny – that’s not hyperbole, that’s allegory. And my comments were to James, not the good Father L (whom I support and agree with).

  • Nathaniel

    So in other words, if people don’t believe in your particular doctrine, they aren’t Real Christians?

    Gosh, that’s never been said before.

  • Lynne

    Yes, at least one pollster has been in bed with Obama.

    http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Hand-in-Glove is about the pollster, Nate Silver…

    “In 2008, Silver blogged on the DailyKos website under the name poblano, where he drew a considerable following. Among his admirers, we now learn, were the folks running Barack Obama’s Presidential campaign, and at a certain point Silver and the campaign began working hand in glove:

    Sasha Issenberg’s new book on the science of politics, The Victory Lab reports that Silver’s data-centric approach and skepticism of other media’s — as the Obama campaign saw it — unsophisticated take on state polls won him an “obsessive following” in Obama’s Chicago headquarters.

    Obama’s polling analysts, Issenberg writes, wanted to test their internal polls against Silver’s model. And so — in an unusual step for the closely-held campaign, and for the analyst, who was then running his own website, FiveThirtyEight.com — the Obama campaign offered Silver access to thousands of its own internal polls, on the condition Silver sign a confidentiality agreement, which he did. . . .

    “We wanted a little external validation that what we were seeing is what was actually going on,” Michael Simon, a former Obama aide, told Issenberg.

    It makes one wonder whether Silver and the Obama campaign are “assisting” one another this time around. I am sure that Pravda-on-the-Hudson would not object. That rag is the central organ within this year’s unofficial campaign.”

    • Nathaniel

      Yeah, 538 is so incredibly biased that it only accurately predicted the outcomes in 49 out of 50 states.

      What putzes.

  • Ginny

    Qualis Rex,
    Thanks for pointing out my clumsy attempt at hyperbole. I hope I don’t aggravate your allergic reaction to hyperbole, but the crude atheism displayed by the mob at the Democratic convention should scare the bejeebers out of all Christians. It does appear that Obama will be re-elected and I believe that there is a great possibility that those who refuse to worship the State will ultimately be impoverished and persecuted, mainly Catholics. It’s quite apparent that this Administration hates the Catholic Faith.

    Oh, by the way, you misspelled “Ammendment.”

    • Qualis Rex

      “Worship the state” is hyperbole, so you did just fine there : ) To be frank, crude atheism doesn’t scare me. At this point in my life, very little outside of the personal and spiritual safety of my family, friends and co-religionists as well as the salvation of my soul scare me. Crude atheism does however make me prepare and try to understand the direction in which we may be heading short and long term, and act accordingly and reverse the situation. I agree the administration hates (maybe even subconsciously) the Catholic church…but it’s not the first and won’t be the last.

      I would also like to point out that heretics and heresy is just as dangerous and anti-Catholic as atheism. The 2 + 2 = 5 moral relativism and evangelical “whore of Babylon” contingents were also very present at the same convention; once again, no less dangerous. It has been my experience to date that very few Catholics know much about Mormonism, let alone that it is rapidly anti-Catholic in doctrine. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. So, either way, we prepare.

      Lastly, as English is not my first language, I sometimes misspell English words with Latin roots (Ammendare) in thier original form. So, since you’re so vigilantly taking on the new orthographic schoolmarm position, I will gladly donate all my spare “M”s to you. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

  • Skay

    http://www.examiner.com/article/democrats-union-scam-millions-from-handicapped-kids-to-re-elect-obama

    SEIU taking money from the caretakers of the handicapped(usually the family) to be used by them to
    help elect Obama. Obama voters -especially those who do not want the word God in their party plank-should be so proud.
    If Romney is elected the HHS mandate will disappear and so will the monstrosity of Obamacare. The fact that George Soros(athiest-socialist) is contributing to many Democrat organizations and groups like Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good should point out what his strategy is. We know he is using his money to divide and destroy the Church from within and there are Catholics following his lead. I saw him on video saying that his goal is one world government and that he had no problem with the UN being that government.
    In order to do that — the US must be a much weaker country. That is where we will be headed if we have another four years of this administration. The national debt is now 16 trillion-with Obama wanting to borrow even more in order to make as many as possible dependent on government(in this case him). He has recently said that he will go around Congress in order to get what he wants.
    What Constitution?

    When the Jews were being sent to death camps during WWII–the sun still caome up the next day also. It just did not look quite the same to them.


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