This is a follow-up discussion of my article, Star of Bethlehem: Refuting Silly Atheist Objections [12-26-20]. Atheist (words in blue below) wrote in a combox at Debunking Christianity on 12-29-20, citing my words from the preceding paper:
“….You are what you eat. If you surround yourself with such silly arguments, you’ll end up parroting them and never learning anything…..”
Says the clown who just argued that the magi could maybe, kinda, perhaps see a star in daylight.
You can’t make up stuff this funny.
I replied there: First of all, I argued (look above in this combox) that the biblical text never stated that they followed a star in daylight. So I asked you biblically illiterate clowns why you brought it up as a supposed biblical issue?:
Did the biblical text say they saw it in the daylight? . . . the biblical text (in my recollection) doesn’t say they were guided by it in the daylight. In other words, implying that it did is a straw man in the first place. . . . Your burden is to establish that the Bible claimed that they followed it in daytime in the first place. I don’t see that they did, in the relevant passage (Matthew 2:1-12).
Are you that desperate for [pseudo- / fallacious] “arguments”? This was my main reply. I also added as a sort of aside or “footnote” (note the initial four-word qualifier):
even if it did, have you never seen the moon in daylight? I easily saw the recent conjunction in fairly light twilight.
I know this may be “subtle” and incomprehensible reasoning to you (given the overall low and intellectually pathetic level of the discussion here), but please do try to follow. If the supposition is raised that no one can possibly see a star or planet in the daytime, then I respond by saying, “have you never seen the moon in daylight?” But granted, the moon is far closer and a special case. Knowing that, I added, “I easily saw the recent conjunction in fairly light twilight.” That was within the last week (12-22-20, to be exact). My wife took a picture of it, with the simple, small-lens camera in her cell phone, when we could still see a lot of light in the sky [see above].
When we first saw it, it was the only (not man-made) object in the sky visible besides the moon. So it is possible at least during twilight, to see a bright conjunction such as this. As visual proof, I attach the picture she took But beyond all of these considerations, there was never any need at any time for the wise men to see stars during the daylight. They simply saw a star indicating (by their astronomical-astrological reasoning) “west.” The major city due west of both Babylon and northwest Persia (where it is known that a “Magi” caste of priests existed at that time) was Jerusalem. And so they set out to Jerusalem.
How did they get there? By a star leading them every step of the way (which, again, the Bible never states)? No: by existing roads: the Royal Road built by Persian king Darius, and the King’s Highway closer to Jerusalem; also parts of the Silk Road, which overlapped or “supplemented” the Royal Road. I just wrote about these ancient roads and the route they took, in my article yesterday. Nor is it just my opinion that it’s possible to see planetary objects (in this case, planets; “stars” only in the generic sense) during the daytime. Here’s an article about it on EarthSky.org: “Top 10 space objects to see during the day” (Larry Sessions, 6-11-18):
[U]nder the right conditions, you can see the planet Venus with the sun also in the sky. . . .
Even some seasoned astronomers are surprised to learn that mighty Jupiter can be glimpsed with the unaided eye in a sunlit sky. I don’t want to mislead you, as this isn’t an easy observation. Jupiter is significantly dimmer than Venus, and finding it takes a good bit more effort (not to mention exceptionally good eyesight and excellent atmospheric conditions). The best time to see Jupiter in daylight is when it’s near a “quadrature” when Jupiter is about 90 degrees away from the sun in the sky. . . .
Only a relative few observers have caught Jupiter with the unaided eye the daytime, and even fewer have seen Mars. However, it is possible. And indeed 2018 is the year to attempt this observation because Mars will be briefly and very slightly brighter than Jupiter, for a few weeks around July 27, 2018. Although I personally have not seen Mars in the daytime sky (I’ve seen Jupiter twice), a correspondent in the Middle East has reported to me an apparently genuine observation, and I have no doubt that it can be done.
The article also mentions daytime comets and meteors. I note in closing that the leading theories of the nature of the star of Bethlehem, are conjunctions: almost always involving Jupiter, with Venus or Saturn or Mars, and also the “star” Regulus (technically a quadruple star system), which is the brightest “star” in the constellation Leo, and the 21st brightest “star” in the sky.
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Okay, so you did but you didn’t. Got it.
“This was my main reply. I also added as a sort of aside or “footnote” (note the initial four-word qualifier):
even if it did, have you never seen the moon in daylight? I easily sa w the recent conjunction in fairly light twilight.”
But somehow we are the ones “desperate for [pseudo- / fallacious] “arguments””.
Hilarious.
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Yes, I read your little cut and paste ‘essay’. You confuse massive verbiage with argument. So cute that you try to elide stars and planetary conjunctions.
“….I note in closing that the leading theories of the nature of the star of Bethlehem, are conjunctions: almost always involving Jupiter, with Venus or Saturn or Mars, and also the “star” Regulus [and blah blah blah…].”
You are, as has been pointed to you several times here, ignoring the actual words of your ‘holy’ book. You reek of desperation, son.
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“…phenomenological language…”
Derp…..
Your ‘holy’ book was written by people who didn’t know where the sun went at night and thought stars could fall off of the glass dome to which they were attached.
……all very typical of theists arguments against atheism and in favor of collected bronze age campfire stories.
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I give up. This person is utterly impervious to logic and any sense of a reasoning chain, and (as a bonus) filled with both hostility and blissful ignorance of the Bible and Christianity. Discussion is literally impossible
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Photo credit: conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn (the closest in 800 or so years), taken from Tecumseh, Michigan, within an hour of sunset, by my wife Judy (12-22-20).
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