This episode is brough to you by Peaceful Warrior Coffee Co. where you will find freshly roasted gourmet coffee beans from around the world that are roasted and shipped to you on the same day and shipping is always free. Use code "Messy" for 15% off your first order. In this raw "Messy Conversations" episode, Jason talked to author, podcaster, and former pastor Nat Turney about starting a new kind of church, shutting it down, and what he learned in between. Be sure to check out Nat's incredible new book, The Seeds of Deconstruction , which has a forward by the incomparable Brad Jersak. You're definitely going to want to check out Nat's podcast, This is Not Church , as well if you're not already listening to it. There are shout-outs in this episode to Paul Bergmann, Jon Turney, Meg Calvin, Eric Howell, Brad Jersak, and more! You can follow Nat on Facebook , Threads, and Instagram. You can follow Jason on Facebook , Threads, and Instagram. You can also follow the show on Facebook , Instagram , and TikTok. Please be sure to rate and review the show on your podcast app of choice! Thanks for listening. The whole crew will be back for our next episode! Connect with the crew : You can find Lola on Facebook , Instagram , and TikTok You can find Kyle on Facebook , Instagram , and TikTok. You can find Jason on Facebook , Instagram , and Threads (because he's way too old for TikTok). Be sure to check out our Youtube channel. Also, please join the conversation over on our Messy Conversations group on FB! Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review and subscribe or follow the show on your platform of choice!