Baptism: Was Mengele Saved By It?

Also, Other Related Issues Such as the Thief on the Cross

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This is a collection of replies I have made in the combox of the video I made with Kenny Burchard, “BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU – Fridays With Dave!! [14+Verses to Highlight]” (10-25-24). Comments of others (I have made some spelling and grammatical corrections) will be in blue.

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Baptism is an outward display of excepting the ransom of Jesus. However, it’s the resurrection that gives you life.

It’s both. The cross saves us, and baptism is one of God’s sacramental means by which he does so, with us cooperating with His plan.

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It’s the efficacy of the blood which saves us. The blood is applied by faith. In His resurrection the Lord has formed a new creation and we enter it through the indwelling Holy Spirit. Baptism speaks of association with Christ in His death. Dead to sin and to the world. Read Colossians ch. 3 v 1-5.

Of course it does. No one disputes that. It’s only your unbiblical “either/or” false dichotomies that we oppose.

J[oseph] Mengele [the notorious Nazi murderer] had a brag to the end of his rather long life: He had a one-way ticket to heaven. He was re-baptized in Spain during his journey out of Europe to Argentina. The evidence of this event alone has made me walk away.

Baptism saves and renders one free of sin at the moment it is given, but then we have to continue in the faith. It’s no automatic “ticket to heaven” that applies no matter how evil one might be. This is the same error as “faith alone” + “eternal security” whereby a person can never lose their salvation once attained, no matter what they do. It’s grossly unbiblical. If someone continues after baptism in serious, mortal sin (and I’m pretty sure Mengele did, and never repented), baptism no longer saves them. Paul and the author of Hebrews warned about this many times. I think an unrepentant Nazi murderer undeniably qualifies for such a falling away and likely damnation. God is not mocked. It would be similar to what St. Paul writes about receiving the Holy Eucharist in Holy Communion improperly:

1 Corinthians 11:27-20 (RSV) Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. [28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. [29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. [30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

This situation also strikes me as somewhat similar to the sin of simony, described in the Book of Acts:

Acts 8:17-23 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. [18] Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, [19] saying, “Give me also this power, that any one on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” [20] But Peter said to him, “Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! [21] You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. [22] Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. [23] For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”

In other words, at issue is a corruption or cynical manipulation of a sacrament or other spiritual aspect for one’s own gain. If Mengele thought that baptism would save him apart from a profound repentance and change of life, he was sadly mistaken. Note that in Simon’s case, also, “Even Simon himself believed” and had been baptized (8:13). But Peter’s severe language expresses a distinct possibility that he could be damned if he didn’t repent of his post-baptismal sin. Fr. John A. Hardon, SJ, in his Modern Catholic Dictionary defines “apostasy” as “The total rejection by a baptized person of the Christian faith he once professed.” Thus, a person may reject even the extraordinary baptismal graces received at baptism (helpfully summed up by Fr. Hardon in the same work).

Jesus excoriated the Pharisees for this sort of thing, because they emphasized works at the expense of the more important ethical responsibilities:

Matthew 23:23-28 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. [24] You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! [25] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of extortion and rapacity. [26] You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean. [27] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. [28] So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

This goes back to an Old Testament theme of wholehearted, non-hypocritical worship and a righteous life:

Jeremiah 14:7, 10, 12 . . . our backslidings are many, we have sinned against thee. . . . [10] Thus says the LORD concerning this people: “They have loved to wander thus, they have not restrained their feet; therefore the LORD does not accept them, now he will remember their iniquity and punish their sins.” [11] The LORD said to me: “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. [12] Though they fast, I will not hear their cry, and though they offer burnt offering and cereal offering, I will not accept them; but I will consume them by the sword, by famine, and by pestilence.”

Amos 5:12, 14, 21-24 For I know how many are your transgressions, and how great are your sins — you who afflict the righteous, who take a bribe, and turn aside the needy in the gate. . . . [14] Seek good, and not evil, that you may live; and so the LORD, the God of hosts, will be with you, as you have said . . . [21] I hate, I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. [22] Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and cereal offerings, I will not accept them, and the peace offerings of your fatted beasts I will not look upon. [23] Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. [24] But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 21:27  The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination; how much more when he brings it with evil intent.

If a man observes religious rites and rituals but doesn’t act in accordance with them, they in effect become worthless, as God Himself says:

Hosea 6:6 For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings.

Jesus reiterates this:

Matthew 7:18-21 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [20] Thus you will know them by their fruits. [21] Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. . . .

Am I to understand that you left Christianity — or specifically Catholic Christianity — because of this? If so, I respectfully submit that it’s not an adequate reason at all. You received some incorrect teaching.

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Baptism saves at the moment it is given. We then have to continue to be vigilant and endure till the end, because we can lose salvation, as the Bible also teaches many times. Baptism doesn’t guarantee salvation in that sense.

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Water saves?

According to the Bible, yes: as a sacrament (physical means to receive God’s grace), and if done with the right intent, with a trinitarian formula.

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Baptism is necessary unless one can’t possibly do it: thief on the cross.

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Is it possible that perhaps the thief was baptized three years earlier?

Yeah, it’s possible. But if so, it doesn’t change the principle of not being bound to a sacrament if one is unable to obtain it for whatever reason. God is a merciful God. He doesn’t let people go to hell for eternity for a thing like that. He knows their hearts.

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Matthew 27:41-44 So also the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, mocked him, saying, [42] “He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. [43] He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, `I am the Son of God.'” [44] And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way.

This shows that he was still likely an unbeliever, since he was still mocking Christ while being crucified. He repented, however, before he died. Therefore, almost certainly he wasn’t baptized. But then someone noted that he could have been a baptized follower of Jesus who then fell away. Sure, that’s possible. We simply don’t know. But in any event, it doesn’t change the principle of a possible baptism of desire.

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I think you have to ask yourself a question. How were Old Testament Believers saved? How are New Testament Believers saved? Also does God the Father use the same way to Save Believers throughout the ages of both Testaments? That is a key to the entirety of the Bible as a whole! How was Abraham, Moses, Aaron, King Saul, King David, Noah saved or was there Salvation for them Under the Sacrificial System?

The OT saints were saved by faith (Hebrews 11) and by the works they did by God’s grace, just as we are today. And they were saved by Jesus’ death on the cross, applied backwards in time. They did rituals by which God blessed them, like circumcision and offering sacrifice at the Temple and observing the Jewish holidays. An exception doesn’t disprove the rule. That’s what the thief on the cross is. It doesn’t follow that no one should ever be baptized and regenerated in that way because it wasn’t possible for the thief on the cross to do so. God is bigger than the sacraments.

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Baptism does not mean can never turn away. Disciples walked away after the bread of life discourse. I walked away for over twenty years. God didn’t walk away.

I agree with you. I never said otherwise. I believed as an Arminian evangelical and now as a Catholic that one can fall away, and baptism is no prevention of that, if we develop the evil will to fall away and reject God. I was never a Calvinist. I almost believed in eternal security, but I always thought that it was possible to reject God (the unforgivable sin).

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The Bible teaches that we are saved by Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross on our behalf, entirely due to by God’s grace, accepted by means of our faith, which organically contains within itself good works, without which it is “dead.” These works include the willing reception of baptism and the Holy Eucharist: both of which the Bible states many times, play a role in saving us (along with a host of other good works). It’s not only baptism. But baptism does regenerate.

NOTE: some argue that Mengele legitimately repented near the end of his life and received baptism. Of course, such a thing is possible, if exceedingly unlikely. And in such cases, that would be true repentance, and the baptism could indeed save such a person rom hell. I was concentrating above on cases where there is no repentance and baptism is being manipulated and abused.

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Photo credit: Image by Kenny Burchard from his YouTube channel (Catholic Bible Highlights), where I am a partner, from the video, “BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU – Fridays With Dave!!” (10-25-24).

Summary: I tackle some questions concerning baptism: particularly whether it can be manipulated by evil men (like Mengele) to gain salvation, & the issue regarding the thief on the cross.