August 22, 2017

Calvin17
Historical Mixed Media Figure of John Calvin produced by artist/historian George S. Stuart and photographed by Peter d’Aprix (9-18-07). This image, from the George S. Stuart Gallery of Historical Figures archive (http://www.galleryhistoricalfigures.com) is provided for all uses with appropriate attribution. Any derivatives must be shared in the same manner. Contributor mharrsch is webmaster for the gallery site. [Wikimedia CommonsCreative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license]

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(6-14-04)

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Reformed Protestant (or Reformed Catholic; take your pick) Kevin D. Johnson has been making the argument that these two men have a similar theology regarding the Holy Eucharist. He wrote in his blog entry, “The Catholic Nature of Calvin’s View of the Real Presence” (blue-colored emphases added):

For Calvin, his view of the Real Presence very much agreed with Cyril of Jerusalem and a better term to understand him is the “mystical presence” of Christ . . . The term “spiritual presence” can be misleading because Calvin’s opponents (both Lutheran and Roman Catholic) tried to emphasize a presence that avoided the fuller definition given above and claim that he believed that Christ was only present in spirit and not bodily. Christ’s bodily–physical–presence was there in the sacrament according to Calvin, but this was so by the Spirit (hence the usage of the term “spiritual” which refers to the Holy Spirit making this presence possible). This is in line with the orthodox catholic teaching of the subject over the ages–and Calvin very much resonated with the Church in this regard. It is wrong to think somehow that he broke with catholic tradition here. 

. . . I think Roman Catholics must admit that at the very least, transubstantiation as it was approved at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 and Trent in the mid-sixteenth century was a later development of the doctrines both of the Real Presence and the Lord’s Supper and while it is certainly a part of Roman Catholic orthodoxy now it was not so clear cut prior to 1215 when it was made a part of the deposit of the faith. Indeed, it had been hotly debated for 400 years prior to the Fourth Lateran Council starting with its chief protagonist Radbertus.

Calvin’s view actually represents an earlier tradition via Cyril of Jerusalem among others (arguably, Augustine since that is where Calvin primarily pulls his definition of a “sacrament” in his Institutes) and is truer not only to the text of Scripture but also to the orthodox theology of the Church over the ages. In addition, it avoids the heavy influence of a scholastic look at such an issue that transubstantiation clearly represents. 

The scholastic theology of Rome caused a break between the orthodoxy of the early and medieval Church and while there are Roman Catholic apologists out there who can look back at the early fathers and read transubstantiation back into their statements, it is very difficult for a true scholarly effort to accomplish the same thing without admitting a great deal of prejudice in interpreting those early texts in such a manner.

Calvin and the other magisterial Reformers very clearly viewed themselves as part of the historic Catholic Church and felt that it was the hierarchy of Roman Catholicism that had departed from the ancient deposit of the faith. Regarding this issue, it is very easy to see why they felt that way once one acquaints himself with all of the historical data on the matter of the Real Presence and the development of transubstantiation as the Church approached the High Middle Ages.

This concisely summarizes Kevin’s position and gives us a solid statement of his position, that we can work with as we examine the historical data (in which alone the question can be satisfactorily and substantively settled). In his blog entry, “A Reformed Doctrine of the Eucharist and Ministry and its Implications for Roman Catholic Dialogues,” Kevin cites at length the following article by David Willis: “A Reformed Doctrine of the Eucharist and Ministry and Its Implications for Roman Catholic Dialogues”, Journal of Ecumenical Studies, 21:2, Spring 1984, pp. 295-309. Here are some highlights from his post (all from Willis, and emphases again added):

. . . Calvin maintained a doctrine of the real presence in the Lord’s Supper. The starting point for his doctrine, one which he shares with Cyril of Jerusalem, is the mystical union of Christ with believers. According to Calvin, in the eucharist we participate not just in the benefits of Christ but also in his substance, that of his humanity no less than of his divinity; Christ is substantially, not just sacramentally, present. Calvin’s objection to the doctrines of transubstantiation and bodily ubiquity is that they constitute threats to a correct doctrine of the real presence–the former by weakening the reality of the signs which Christ uses as the instruments for his presence, the latter by weakening the reality of the humanity of Christ . . .

Saying that Christ is really present by the power of the Spirit was not an adequate account of Christ’s real presence, according to those who insisted that the real presence had to be guaranteed either by a doctrine of transubstantiation or bodily ubiquity.

We may, then, summarize (using the above data) Kevin’s interpretation of Calvin’s eucharistic theology and its relation to St. Cyril of Jerusalem, in the following way:

1. Calvin’s notion of “real presence” was “very much” in agreement with St. Cyril.

2. Calvin’s understanding of “real presence” is “in line with the orthodox catholic teaching of the subject over the ages.” He did not break with catholic tradition on this point.

3. Transubstantiation was a development postdating the Fathers, and was quite questionable even strictly in terms of “Roman Catholic orthodoxy” prior to 1215.

4. The eucharistic theology of St. Cyril (reflected by Calvin) is basically at odds with transubstantiation, which is primarily a result of late medieval scholastic theology, and constituted a “break” with earlier tradition.

5. To find transubstantiation in the Fathers is “very difficult” for one engaged in a “true scholarly effort,” and requires a “great deal of prejudice” (in other words, it is anachronistic interpretation).

From these opinions, I therefore logically conclude (expressing it in a different manner which follows straightforwardly from the above):

1. If transubstantiation, or something closely approximating it, or a lesser-developed version of it, can be found in the Fathers, then Kevin’s argument collapses, since he holds that it was only a later scholastic development, and a break with the Fathers. If the development can be shown to have occurred in the patristic age, then so much the worse for Kevin’s historical scenario regarding “catholic orthodoxy” and the Eucharist.

2. If, in particular, St. Cyril of Jerusalem can be shown to adopt something akin to transubstantiation or otherwise opposed to Calvin’s opinions (e.g., acceptance of the Sacrifice of the Mass or adoration of the consecrated Host), then the strong comparison and parallel must be withdrawn as factually inaccurate. This follows from the content of #1 and #2 above. If he can be shown to have accepted a primitive form of transubstantiation, then #3 and #4 must be discarded as well.

3. If non-Catholic scholars can be produced who find transubstantiation, or something closely approximating it, or a lesser-developed version of it, in the Fathers (or in St. Cyril particularly), then we must conclude that they, too, are guilty of anachronistic interpretation, are lacking in a “true scholarly effort,” and suffer from a “great deal of prejudice” — and for no particular reason, as they are not Catholic apologists, etc., determined to shore up a [Roman] Catholic position at all costs, in the face of demonstrable facts.

Now, to begin our study, let us examine John Calvin’s opinion concerning transubstantiation, adoration of the Host, and the Sacrifice of the Mass. We will then proceed to inquire as to whether this was in accord with the Fathers and St. Cyril in particular, and thus merely continuing that earlier “orthodox tradition,” or whether it was, in fact, a break from the same (rather than transubstantiation being the decisive break and corruption of earlier doctrine). Blue-colored emphases remain my own throughout. Italics are in the originals.

TRANSUBSTANTIATION

From: Reply to Jacopo Cardinal Sadoleto

(September 1, 1539; translated by Henry Beveridge, 1844; reprinted in A Reformation Debate, edited by John C. Olin, New York: Harper Torchbooks, 1966; citation from p. 71)

In condemning your gross dogma of transubstantiation, . . . we have not acted without the concurrence of the ancient Church, under whose shadow you endeavor in vain to hide the very vile superstitions to which you are here addicted.

From: Jules Bonnet, editor, John Calvin: Selected Works of John Calvin: Tracts and LettersLetters, Part 2, 1545-1553, volume 5 of 7; translated by David Constable; Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1983; reproduction of Letters of John Calvin, volume II [Philadelphia: Presbyterian Board of Publication, 1858]:

. . . transubstantiation was a mere fiction . . . (Letter to Farel, 11 May 1541, p. 261)

From: The True Method of Reforming the Church and Healing Her Divisions

(1547; translated by Henry Beveridge, 1851; reprinted in Selected Works of John Calvin: Tracts and Letters, Vol. 3: Tracts, Part 3, edited by Henry Beveridge and Jules Bonnet, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1983; citation from p. 277):

In treating of the Supper they bring back the fiction of Transubstantiation, against which all are forced to protest who are unwilling that the true use of the Supper should be lost to them. A common property of the Sacraments is, that in a manner adapted to the human intellect, they exhibit what is spiritual by a visible sign. The spiritual meaning of the Supper is, that the flesh of Christ is the meat and his blood the drink on which our souls are fed. Unless the sign correspond to this the nature of the Sacrament is destroyed. It is therefore necessary that the bread and wine be held forth to us, that from them we may learn what Christ sets before us in figure. But if the bread which we see is an empty show, what will it attest to us but an empty shadow of the flesh of Christ? They pretend that there is only an appearance of bread, which deceives the eye. How far will this phantom carry us?

ADORATION OF THE HOST

From: On Shunning the Unlawful Rites of the Ungodly, and Preserving the Purity of the Christian Religion.

(1537; translated by Henry Beveridge, 1851; reprinted in Selected Works of John Calvin: Tracts and Letters, Vol. 3: Tracts, Part 3, edited by Henry Beveridge and Jules Bonnet, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1983; citations from pp. 383, 386-387, 393):

. . . the abominable Idolatry, when bread is pretended to assume Divinity, and raised aloft as God, and worshipped by all present! The thing is so atrocious and insulting, that without being seen it can scarcely be believed . . . A little bit of Bread, I say, is displayed, adored, and invoked. In short, it is believed to be God, a thing which even the Gentiles never believed of any of their statues! And let no one here object that it is not the Bread that is adored, but Christ who becomes substituted for the Bread the moment it has been legitimately consecrated.

. . . At last, behold the Idol (puny, indeed, in bodily appearance, and white in colour, but by far the foulest and most pestiferous of all Idols!) lifted up to affect the minds of the beholders with superstition. While all prostrate themselves in stupid amazement . . . What effrontery must ours be, if we deny that any one of the things delivered in Scripture against Idolatry is inapplicable to the Idolatry here detected and proved! What! is this Idol in any respect different from that which the Second Commandment of the Law forbids us to worship? But if it is not, why should the worship of it be regarded as less a sin than the worship of the Statue at Babylon? . . . how can it be lawful to keep rolling about in such a sink of pollution and sacrilege as here manifestly exists?

. . . Away, then, with those who, on the view of a missal-god of wafer, bend their knees in hypocritical adoration, and allege that they sin the less because they worship an idol under the name of God! As if the Lord were not doubly mocked by that nefarious use of his Name, when, in a manner abandoning Him, men run to an idol, and he himself is represented as passing into bread, because enchanted by a kind of dull and magical murmur! 

From: Reply to Sadoleto (ibid., p. 71):

In . . . declaring that stupid adoration which detains the minds of men among the elements, and permits them not to rise to Christ, to be perverse and impious, we have not acted without the concurrence of the ancient Church, under whose shadow you endeavor in vain to hide the very vile superstitions to which you are here addicted.

From Bonnet, Selected Works (ibid.):

. . . the reposition of the consecrated wafer a piece of superstition, that the adoration of the wafer was idolatrous, or at the least dangerous, since it had no authority from the word of God . . . I condemned that peculiar local presence; the act of adoration I declared to be altogether insufferable. (Letter to Farel, 11 May 1541, p. 261)

From: Institutes of the Christian Religion:

(1559 ed., translation of Ford L. Battles; edited by John T. McNeill;, Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 2 volumes, 1960):

. . . fictitious transubstantiation . . . the first fabricators of this local presence could not explain how Christ’s body might be mixed with the substance of bred without many absurdities immediately cropping up . . . But it is wonderful how they fell to such a point of ignorance, even of folly, that, despising not only Scripture but even the consensus of the ancient church, they unveiled that monster . . . they all [the Fathers, or “old writers”] everywhere clearly proclaim that the Sacred Supper consists of two parts, the earthly and the heavenly; and they interpret the earthly part to be indisputably bread and wine. 

Surely, whatever our opponents may prate, it is plain that to confirm this doctrine they lack the support of antiquity . . . For transubstantiation was devised not long ago; indeed, not only was it unknown to those purer ages when the purer doctrine of religion still flourished, but even when that purity already was somewhat corrupted. (IV, 17, 14)

They could never have been so foully deluded by Satan’s tricks unless they had already been bewitched by this error . . . among them consecration was virtually equivalent to magic incantation . . . Even in Bernard’s time [1090-1153], although a blunter manner of speaking had been adopted, transubstantiation was not yet recognized. (IV, 17, 15)

THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS

From: On Shunning the Unlawful Rites of the Ungodly, and Preserving the Purity of the Christian Religion.

(1537; translated by Henry Beveridge, 1851; reprinted in Selected Works of John Calvin: Tracts and Letters, Vol. 3: Tracts, Part 3, edited by Henry Beveridge and Jules Bonnet, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1983; citations from pp. 383, 386-388):

. . . the mere name of Sacrifice (as the priests of the Mass understand it) both utterly abolishes the cross of Christ, and overturns his sacred Supper which he consecrated as a memorial of his death. For both, as we know, is the death of Christ utterly despoiled of its glory, unless it is held to be the one only and eternal Sacrifice; and if any other Sacrifice still remains, the Supper of Christ falls at once, and is completely torn up by the roots . . .

Will it still be denied to me that he who listens to the Mass with a semblance of Religion, every time these acts are perpetrated, professes before men to be a partner in sacrilege, whatever his mind may inwardly declare to God? 

. . . Taking the single expression which gives the essence of all the invectives which the Apostle had uttered against Idolatry — that we could not at once be partakers at the table of Christ and the table of demons — who can deny its applicability to the Mass? Its altar is erected by overthrowing the Table of Christ . . . In the Mass Christ is traduced, his death is mocked, an execrable idol is substituted for God — shall we hesitate, then, to call it the table of demons? Or shall we not rather, in order justly to designate its monstrous impiety, try, if possible, to devise some new term still more expressive of detestation? Indeed, I exceedingly wonder how men, not utterly blind, can hesitate for a moment to apply the name “Table of Demons” to the Mass, seeing they plainly behold in the erection and arrangement of it the tricks, engines, and troops of devils all combined . . . I have long been maintaining on the strongest grounds that Christian men ought not even to be present at it! 

. . . will you represent the Supper under the image of a diabolical Mass? Will you persuade us that in an act in which you ignominiously travesty the death of the Lord, you observe his Supper, in which he distinctly exhorts us to shew forth his death?

From Reply to Sadoleto (ibid., p. 74):

. . . We are indignant, that in the room of the sacred Supper has been substituted a sacrifice, by which the death of Christ is emptied of its virtues . . . in all these points, the ancient Church is clearly on our side, and opposes you, not less than we ourselves do.

From: Institutes of the Christian Religion

(1559 edition; translated by Henry Beveridge, 1845)

Scarcely can we hold any meeting with them without polluting ourselves with open idolatry. Their principal bond of communion is undoubtedly in the Mass, which we abominate as the greatest sacrilege. (IV, 2, 9)

From: Institutes of the Christian Religion:

(1559 ed., translation of Ford L. Battles; edited by John T. McNeill;, Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 2 volumes, 1960)

The height of frightful abomination was when the devil . . . blinded nearly the whole world with a most pestilential error – the belief that the Mass is a sacrifice . . . It is most clearly proved by the Word of God that this Mass . . . inflicts signal dishonor upon Christ, buries and oppresses his cross, consigns his death to oblivion, takes away the benefit which came to us from it . . .

Let us therefore show . . . that in it an unbearable blasphemy and dishonor is inflicted upon Christ . . . they not only deprive Christ of his honor, and snatch from him the prerogative of that eternal priesthood, but try to cast him down from the right hand of his Father . . .

Another power of the Mass was set forth: that it suppresses and buries the cross and Passion of Christ. This is indeed very certain: that the cross of Christ is overthrown as soon as the altar is set up . . . 

This perversity was unknown to the purer Church . . . It is very certain that the whole of antiquity is against them . . . Augustine himself in many passages interprets it as nothing but a sacrifice of praise . . . Chrysostom also speaks in the same sense . . .

But I observe that the ancient writers also misinterpreted this memorial . . . because their Supper displayed some appearance of repeated or at least renewed sacrifice . . . I cannot bring myself to condemn them for any impiety; still, I think they cannot be excused for having sinned somewhat in acting as they did. For they have followed the Jewish manner of sacrificing more closely than either Christ had ordained or the nature of the gospel allowed . . .

What remains but that the blind may see, the deaf hear, and even children understand this abomination of the Mass? . . . it . . . has so stricken them with drowsiness and dizziness, that, more stupid than brute beasts, they have steered the whole vessel of their salvation into this one deadly whirlpool. Surely, Satan never prepared a stronger engine to besiege and capture Christ’s Kingdom . . . they so defile themselves in spiritual fornication, the most abominable of all . . . The Mass . . . from root to top, swarms with every sort of impiety, blasphemy, idolatry, and sacrilege. (IV, 18, 1-3,9-11,18; from vol. II, pp. 1429-1431, 1437, 1439-1440, 1445-1446)

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Important Protestant Church Historians Differ Radically From Calvin (and Kevin Johnson) Regarding the History of Transubstantiation, Adoration, and the Sacrifice of the Mass:

Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, vol. 3, A.D. 311-600, rev. 5th ed., Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, rep. 1974, orig, 1910, 492-495 [see further primary documentation by visiting the link provided]:

The doctrine of the sacrament of the Eucharist was not a subject of theological controversy and ecclesiastical action till the time of Paschasius Radbert, in the ninth century . . . In general, this period, . . . was already very strongly inclined toward the doctrine of transubstantiation, and toward the Greek and Roman sacrifice of the mass, which are inseparable in so far as a real sacrifice requires the real presence of the victim. But the kind and mode of this presence are not yet particularly defined, and admit very different views: Christ may be conceived as really present either in and with the elements (consubstantiation, impanation), or under the illusive appearance of the changed elements (transubstantiation), or only dynamically and spiritually.

. . . I. The realistic and mystic view is represented by several fathers and the early liturgies, whose testimony we shall further cite below. They speak in enthusiastic and extravagant terms of the sacrament and sacrifice of the altar. They teach a real presence of the body and blood of Christ, which is included in the very idea of a real sacrifice, and they see in the mystical union of it with the sensible elements a sort of repetition of the incarnation of the Logos. With the act of consecration a change accordingly takes place in the elements, whereby they become vehicles and organs of the life of Christ, although by no means necessarily changed into another substance. To denote this change very strong expressions are  used, like metabolhvmetabavlleinmetabavllesqaimetastoiceiou’sqaimetapoiei’sqaimutatiotranslatiotransfiguratiotransformatio; illustrated by the miraculous transformation of water into wine, the assimilation of food, and the pervasive power of leaven.

Cyril of Jerusalem goes farther in this direction than any of the fathers. He plainly teaches some sort of supernatural connection between the body of Christ and the elements, though not necessarily a transubstantiation of the latter. Let us hear the principal passages. “Then follows,” he says in describing the celebration of the Eucharist, “the invocation of God, for the sending of his Spirit to make the bread the body of Christ, the wine the blood of Christ. For what the Holy Ghost touches is sanctified and transformed.” “Under the type of the bread is given to thee the body, under the type of the wine is given to thee the blood, that thou mayest be a partaker of the body and blood of Christ, and be of one body and blood with him.” “After the invocation of the Holy Ghost the bread of the Eucharist is no longer bread, but the body of Christ.” “Consider, therefore, the bread and the wine not as empty elements, for they are, according to the declaration of the Lord, the body and blood of Christ.” In support of this change Cyril refers at one time to the wedding feast at Cana, which indicates, the Roman theory of change of substance; but at another to the consecration of the chrism, wherein the substance is unchanged. He was not clear and consistent with himself. His opinion probably was, that the eucharistic elements lost by consecration not so much their earthly substance, as their earthly purpose.

Gregory of Nyssa, though in general a very faithful disciple of the spiritualistic Origen, is on this point entirely realistic. He calls the Eucharist a food of immortality, and speaks of a miraculous transformation of the nature of the elements into the glorified body of Christ by virtue of the priestly blessing . . .

Of the Latin fathers, Hilary, Ambrose, and Gaudentius († 410) come nearest to the later dogma of transubstantiation. The latter says: “The Creator and Lord of nature, who produces bread from the earth, prepares out of bread his own body, makes of wine his own blood.”

Right after this, Schaff tries his hardest to minimize all instances which strongly suggest transubstantiation (“closely as these and similar expressions verge upon the Roman doctrine of transubstantiation, they seem to contain at most a dynamic, not a substantial, change of the elements into the body and the blood of Christ”), but his scholarly fairness compels him to acknowledge that this thought was present in the Fathers. The evidence is too strong for him to deny it. Thus he is already clashing with Calvin’s historical account.

Likewise (unable to wholly hide his polemical partisanship), he minimizes adoration, but is honest enough to present instances of this teaching from four very prominent Fathers (pp. 501-502):

As to the adoration of the consecrated elements: This follows with logical necessity from the doctrine of transubstantiation, and is the sure touchstone of it . . . Chrysostom says: “The wise men adored Christ in the manger; we see him not in the manger, but on the altar, and should pay him still greater homage.” Theodoret, in the passage already cited, likewise uses the term proskuvnei’n [Greek for “worship”], but at the same time expressly asserts the continuance of the substance of the elements. Ambrose speaks once of the flesh of Christ “which we to-day adore in the mysteries,” and Augustine, of an adoration preceding the participation of the flesh of Christ.

So both transubstantiation and adoration are clearly present among the Fathers, even according to a prominent Protestant historian who completely disagrees personally with these doctrines. Calvin is simply in error. Schaff then takes up the subject of the Sacrifice of the Mass in his next section (§ 96. “The Sacrifice of the Eucharist”), and we find no absence there, either, contra Calvin’s dogmatic pontifications (pp. 503-508, 510):

The Catholic church, both Greek and Latin, sees in the Eucharist not only a sacramentum, in which God communicates a grace to believers, but at the same time, and in fact mainly, a sacrificium, in which believers really offer to God that which is represented by the sensible elements. For this view also the church fathers laid the foundation, and it must be conceded they stand in general far more on the Greek and Roman Catholic than on the Protestant side of this question. 

. . . In this view certainly, in a deep symbolical and ethical sense, Christ is offered to God the Father in every believing prayer, and above all in the holy Supper; i.e. as the sole ground of our reconciliation and acceptance . . .

But this idea in process of time became adulterated with foreign elements, and transformed into the Graeco-Roman doctrine of the sacrifice of the mass. According to this doctrine the Eucharist is an unbloody repetition of the atoning sacrifice of Christ by the priesthood for the salvation of the living and the dead; so that the body of Christ is truly and literally offered every day and every hour, and upon innumerable altars at the same time. The term mass, which properly denoted the dismissal of the congregation (missio, dismissio) at the close of the general public worship, became, after the end of the fourth century, the name for the worship of the faithful, which consisted in the celebration of the eucharistic sacrifice and the communion.

. . . We pass now to the more particular history. The ante-Nicene fathers uniformly conceived the Eucharist as a thank-offering of the church; the congregation offering the consecrated elements of bread and wine, and in them itself, to God. This view is in itself perfectly innocent, but readily leads to the doctrine of the sacrifice of the mass, as soon as the elements become identified with the body and blood of Christ, and the presence of the body comes to be materialistically taken. The germs of the Roman doctrine appear in Cyprian about the middle of the third century, in connection with his high-churchly doctrine of the clerical priesthood. Sacerdotium and sacrificium are with him correlative ideas,

. . . The doctrine of the sacrifice of the mass is much further developed in the Nicene and post-Nicene fathers, though amidst many obscurities and rhetorical extravagances, and with much wavering between symbolical and grossly realistic conceptions, until in all essential points it is brought to its settlement by Gregory the Great at the close of the sixth century.

. . . 2. It is not a new sacrifice added to that of the cross, but a daily, unbloody repetition and perpetual application of that one only sacrifice. Augustine represents it, on the one hand, as a sacramentum memoriae, a symbolical commemoration of the sacrificial death of Christ; to which of course there is no objection. But, on the other hand, he calls the celebration of the communion verissimum sacrificium of the body of Christ. The church, he says, offers (immolat) to God the sacrifice of thanks in the body of Christ, from the days of the apostles through the sure succession of the bishops down to our time. But the church at the same time offers, with Christ, herself, as the body of Christ, to God. As all are one body, so also all are together the same sacrifice. According to Chrysostom the same Christ, and the whole Christ, is everywhere offered. It is not a different sacrifice from that which the High Priest formerly offered, but we offer always the same sacrifice, or rather, we perform a memorial of this sacrifice. This last clause would decidedly favor a symbolical conception, if Chrysostom in other places had not used such strong expressions as this: “When thou seest the Lord slain, and lying there, and the priest standing at the sacrifice,” or: “Christ lies slain upon the altar.” 

3. The sacrifice is the anti-type of the Mosaic sacrifice, and is related to it as substance to typical shadows. It is also especially foreshadowed by Melchizedek’s unbloody offering of bread and wine. The sacrifice of Melchizedek is therefore made of great account by Hilary, Jerome, Augustine, Chrysostom, and other church fathers, on the strength of the well-known parallel in the seventh chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews.

. . . Cyril of Jerusalem, in his fifth and last mystagogic Catechesis, which is devoted to the consideration of the eucharistic sacrifice and the liturgical service of God, gives the following description of the eucharistic intercessions for the departed:

When the spiritual sacrifice, the unbloody service of God, is performed, we pray to God over this atoning sacrifice for the universal peace of the church, for the welfare of the world, for the emperor, for soldiers and prisoners, for the sick and afflicted, for all the poor and needy. Then we commemorate also those who sleep, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, martyrs, that God through their prayers and their intercessions may receive our prayer; and in general we pray for all who have gone from us, since we believe that it is of the greatest help to those souls for whom the prayer is offered, while the holy sacrifice, exciting a holy awe, lies before us.

This is clearly an approach to the later idea of purgatory in the Latin church. Even St. Augustine, with Tertullian, teaches plainly, as an old tradition, that the eucharistic sacrifice, the intercessions or suffragia and alms, of the living are of benefit to the departed believers, so that the Lord deals more mercifully with them than their sins deserve.

From: F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, editors, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd edition, 1983, pp.476, 1221:

It was also widely held from the first that the Eucharist is in some sense a sacrifice, though here again definition was gradual . . . In early post-NT times the constant repudiation of carnal sacrifice and emphasis on life and prayer at Christian worship did not hinder the Eucharist from being described as a sacrifice from the first . . . 

From early times the Eucharistic offering was called a sacrifice in virtue of its immediate relation to the sacrifice of Christ.

From: Jaroslav Pelikan, The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600), Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1971, 146-147:

By the date of the Didache [anywhere from about 60 to 160, depending on the scholar]. . . the application of the term ‘sacrifice’ to the Eucharist seems to have been quite natural, together with the identification of the Christian Eucharist as the ‘pure offering’ commanded in Malachi 1:11 . . .

The Christian liturgies were already using similar language about the offering of the prayers, the gifts, and the lives of the worshipers, and probably also about the offering of the sacrifice of the Mass, so that the sacrificial interpretation of the death of Christ never lacked a liturgical frame of reference . . .

St. Cyril of Jerusalem [c.315-386] in Particular

From: J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, San Francisco: Harper, revised edition, 1978, 441, 443-444:

Even the pioneer of the conversion doctrine, Cyril of Jerusalem, is careful to indicate that the elements remain bread and wine to sensible perception, and to call them ‘the antitype’ of Christ’s body and blood: ‘the body is given to you in the figure of bread, and the blood is given to you in the figure of wine’.  (Cat. 22, 9; 23, 20; 22, 3)

. . . He uses the verb ‘change’ or ‘convert’, pointing out that, since Christ transformed water into wine, which after all is akin to blood, at Cana, there can be no reason to doubt a similar miracle on the more august occasion of the eucharistic banquet. (Cat., 22, 2)

Chrysostom exploits the materialist implications of the conversion theory to the full . . . Thus the elements have undergone a change, and Chrysostom describes them as being refashioned or transformed. In the fifth century conversionist views were taken for granted by Alexandrians and Antiochenes alike. According to Cyril . . . the visible objects are not types or symbols . . . but have been transformed through God’s ineffable power into His body and blood. Elsewhere he remarks that God ‘infuses life-giving power into the oblations and transmutes them into the virtue of His own flesh.’ (Chrysostom: In prod. Iud. hom. I, 6; in Matt. hom. 82, 5; Cyril: In Matt. 26,27; In Luc. 22, 19)

Now I shall cite St. Cyril’s Catechetical Lectures:

7. Moreover, the things which are hung up at idol festivals , either meat or bread, or other such things polluted by the invocation of the unclean spirits, are reckoned in the pomp of the devil. For as the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist before the invocation of the Holy and Adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, while after the invocation the Bread becomes the Body of Christ, and the Wine the Blood of Christ, so in like manner such meats belonging to the pomp of Satan, though in their own nature simple, become profane by the invocation of the evil spirit. (Lecture 19, 7)

3. Wherefore with full assurance let us partake as of the Body and Blood of Christ: for in the figure of Bread is given to thee His Body, and in the figure of Wine His Blood; that thou by partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, mayest be made of the same body and the same blood with Him. For thus we come to bear Christ in us, because His Body and Blood are distributed through our members; thus it is that, according to the blessed Peter, we became partakers of the divine nature.

6. Consider therefore the Bread and the Wine not as bare elements, for they are, according to the Lord’s declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ; for even though sense suggests this to thee, yet let faith establish thee. Judge not the matter from the taste, but from faith be fully assured without misgiving, that the Body and Blood of Christ have been vouch-safed to thee.

9. Having learn these things, and been fully assured that the seeming bread is not bread, though sensible to taste, but the Body of Christ; and that the seeming wine is not wine, though the taste will have it so, but the Blood of Christ; . . . (Lecture 22: 3, 6, 9)

7. Then having sanctified ourselves by these spiritual Hymns, we beseech the merciful God to send forth His Holy Spirit upon the gifts lying before Him; that He may make the Bread the Body of Christ, and the Wine the Blood of Christ ; for whatsoever the Holy Ghost has touched, is surely sanctified and changed.

8. Then, after the spiritual sacrifice, the bloodless service, is completed, over that sacrifice of propitiation we entreat God for the common peace of the Churches, for the welfare of the world ; for kings; for soldiers and allies; for the sick; for the afflicted; and, in a word, for all who stand in need of succour we all pray and offer this sacrifice. (Lecture 23: 7-8)

We see, then, that at all points, the beliefs of John Calvin and Kevin Johnson about the Eucharist, as held by the Fathers and St. Cyril of Jerusalem, vis-a-vis Calvin’s view, have been strongly challenged (and I dare say, refuted). If these beliefs are so monstrous as is made out by Calvin, then the Church Fathers en masse are guilty of them just as modern-day Catholics are, and it is absurd to contend that present-day Reformed Protestants (following Calvin) are merely continuing the heritage of the early Church in this regard and others, while Catholics have supposedly departed from it. The exact opposite is true, and I have proven it by citing exclusively Protestant sources and primary patristic sources.

May 25, 2017

HusConstance

Jan Hus before the Council of Constance (1883), by  Václav Brožík (1851-1901) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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My Presbyterian (OPC) friend John E. Taylor started this discussion on Facebook, in relation to my paper, Why Do Protestants Reject the Notion of “One True Church”? His words will be in blue.

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Dave, the record of Old Testament councils isn’t rosy, so I honestly have a hard time over infallible councils.

I’m not counting what happened in Mizpah (Judges 21). The whole nation was gathered when they made some awful decisions and vows, and for all I know the loudmouths shouted down their leaders (but then, leadership between judges was not known for their competence).

But what about the elders who took counsel and demanded of Samuel to give them a king (1 Samuel 8:4-8)? Or the council that banned Jeremiah from the temple (Jeremiah 36:5)? Or the Sanhedrin, when they convicted Jesus of blasphemy and delivered Him over to Pilate?

I never mentioned Old Testament councils in this piece. Why do you bring this up? It isn’t an argument I made here. I do have one paper about analogies to indefectibility in the Old Testament, though.

Simple, Dave. If OT councils were prone to such colossal error, isn’t it presumptuous to say that church councils are exempt from same?

Don’t you think it’s a little different in the new covenant, after Jesus’ death on the cross for us, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

They thought so at the Jerusalem council, since it makes reference to the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete guiding them (“it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us”: Acts 16:28, RSV). Jesus said:

John 16:13 (RSV) When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Protestants have far less faith than Catholics. We think God is big enough to guide and protect His Church (and councils of said Church) from error: as well as individuals who seek to follow Him. Why would God do otherwise? Why would He want hundreds of millions to be left on their own?

I have plenty of faith to believe the Council of Constance was wrong to revoke its safe conduct pledge to John Hus.

As to the safe-conduct of the emperor, we must distinguish,. . . between the arrest of Hus at Constance and his execution. The former act was always accounted in Bohemia a violation of the safe-conduct and a breach of faith on the emperor’s part; on the other hand they knew well, and so did Hus, that the safe-conduct was only a guarantee against illegal violence and could not protect him from the sentence of his legitimate judges.

(Catholic Encyclopedia, “Council of Constance”)

Safe conduct didn’t mean that no one could ever be tried or executed for heresy.

In any event, whether right or wrong (I am no fan at all of executions for heresy), this has nothing to do with doctrinal decisions of a council, made binding on the entire Church. The council didn’t even grant the safe-conduct. And it was not bound to it, in the event of someone being a heretic.

You yourself have noted that the Synod of Dort, held by Calvinists to condemn Arminians, was not always a perfectly saintly undertaking. King David had a man murdered, so that he could commit adultery with his wife. But that didn’t stop God from making an eternal covenant with him. The question of sin and the question of inspiration (Bible writers) and infallibility (popes and councils) are separate ones.

Like a good Protestant polemicist, you immediately switch the discussion from grand, broad issues (whether the Holy Spirit guides Christians into truth: individually and collectively) to particulars (whether Hus’ execution proves that councils cannot be infallible). This is always the game: never discuss the important, crucial questions of premise and foundations for views.

Deal with the larger presuppositional issues first . . . But Hus will not suffice to shoot down Catholic ecclesiology, as shown.

I was fully confident you’d excuse the Council.

I didn’t excuse the killing of Hus; I simply made the point that this had no bearing on infallibility of councils. Safe-conduct was distinct from that.

All Christians in those days believed in execution of heretics. Luther and Calvin killed plenty of Anabaptists. I don’t like that past anymore than you do, but it has to be discussed fairly and intelligently, not as merely “gotcha” talking-points.

But keep frittering away with non sequiturs, if that’s all you have. You’re not forthrightly addressing the issue, which is shown very clearly in the Jerusalem Council’s appeal to the Holy Spirit: demonstrating that the apostles and elders felt themselves to be under God’s special protection and guidance. I’m interested in biblically grounded discussions of what is true and false in Christian doctrine.

Bertrand L. Conway, in his work, The Question Box (New York: Paulist Press, 1929 revised edition, 436-437) provides a further Catholic response to this time-honored false accusation against the Council of Constance:

The Council of Constance never granted a safe-conduct to Huss . . . The Council sets forth the ordinary teaching of canon law, that a prince’s safe-conduct in no way prevented the ecclesiastical authority from trying and judging a heretic.

Huss left Prague, as he admits himself in three letters, without any written safe-conduct. The Emperor, Sigismund, however, granted him an escort of Bohemian nobles to ensure his safety on his way to the Council . . .

No one at the time believed that the Emperor’s safe-conduct gave Huss a right to return to Prague, if he were condemned by the Council. There are many letters extant of the Emperor, the King of Aragon, the Bohemian nobles, and even of Huss himself, proving that the safe-conduct protected the bearer from all illegal violence on his journey, but that it did not free him from the consequences of justice.

It is true that in two letters Huss asserts that the Emperor did promise verbally “to send him back safe and sound to Bohemia.” But Huss is either lying, or he mistook the meaning of the Emperor’s words. “Such a promise,” as Palacky says “would not only have been beyond the Emperor’s rights and competence, but also beyond his power” . . .

The Jerusalem Council gives ONLY the claim that they made the right decision THAT TIME. You read into the text if you presume all future infallibility – the way some assumed St. John the Apostle would not die:

John 21:21‭-‬23 (ESV) “When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”

Moreover these are hardly “non sequiturs”. Your council infallibility position falls like a house of cards at ONE council error. The emperor was angry when Huss was arrested despite the safe conduct. Whether he thought it was covenant breathing skullduggery is another matter.

Speaking of Huss, I’ve looked for the list of alleged heresies Constance condemned him for. Do you have them?

That’s what we get in Scripture regarding ecclesial government: prototypes. Obviously there wasn’t time enough in the 40-50 years of the writing of the New Testament, to get examples of many more councils (even one more). But we have one, and what it shows us is a model that is very much like what Catholics believe about ecumenical councils, and very unlike Protestant dogma that councils aren’t unconditionally binding (Acts 16:4).

There’s no way out of this for the Protestant, and so we get the rather poor reply you give us: “The Jerusalem Council gives ONLY the claim that they made the right decision THAT TIME.”

But of course you don’t follow your own trepidations about the number of examples in Scripture, when it comes to your own ecclesiology. You guys think you see presbyterian government in the New Testament (but it’s so sketchy that Christians believe in many different forms of Church government) and so you follow that for “all future” times.

It’s only when you see Catholic models in Scripture that you descend to this cop-out of “it’s only once!”

The fact remains that Paul proclaimed the teaching of the council all over the place as binding (i.e., hierarchical, overarching, universal authority). That is not Protestant ecclesiology: no way, shape, matter, or form. It says that no council is infallible; only Scripture is.

In fact, the Jerusalem Council was so infallible, that virtually all Christians have followed its ruling ever since: we don’t require circumcision (we have baptism instead) and we don’t follow Jewish dietary laws. That all came about through that council (just as the canon of Scripture came through Catholic councils as well, and you guys have no cogent reply to that conundrum, either).

I’m not gonna keep going down the rabbit trail of talking about Hus; sorry. I dealt with him enough to show that he poses no refutation of the Catholic view of binding councils.

With the precedent of three (at least) GREATLY FLAWED councils in the Old Testament, I marvel at your position, given there is no explicit statement that a council dominated by Apostles was going to set an entirely new precedent for the future.

As for dietary law, I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve taken people to Acts 10 to give express warrant for saying it was a new ball game then – BEFORE the Jerusalem Council. And Paul hammered the Galatians over the circumcision matter in mind-numbing detail. So you have plenty of doctrinal redundancy in the NT without jumping to your extra-biblical dogmas about subsequent councils.

I see, so you are content to go with Peter the first pope (one man) seeing a vision about the cleanness of all foods, as the basis of the new norm for diet. That fits fine with Catholic eclesiology. And then the council confirmed the same thing, via holy men consulting together with the aid of the Holy Spirit. No contradiction there. The contradiction is in you running down the council but extolling Pope Peter as your sole authority on the matter.  We’re “both / and”; y’all are constantly “either / or”.

But if it had already been known and observed by everyone (it wasn’t, because the book of Acts in its entirety was not yet known), then why does the text say that Paul and Silas “delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem” (Acts 16:4)?

Somewhat humorously (in the context of our debate), the verse before (Acts 16:3) informs us about how Paul had Timothy circumcised.

Once again, you want to go with Old Testament and Jewish models regarding councils, rather than New Testament / new covenant / apostle- and Holy Spirit-led New Testament councils, as if there is no difference between the covenants (as I have already addressed: getting only crickets back from you).

You do that for councils, just as you prefer the Jewish biblical canon (by their authority) *after* Jesus’ death to the Christian canon, which included the Septuagint and hence, also the Deuterocanon. It’s as if the indwelling and leading of the Holy Spirit is an indifferent matter to you.

You say councils are extra-biblical, while you hold to presbyterian government, minus hierarchy, bishops, apostolic succession, and the papacy, which is extraordinarily anti-biblical (not merely extra-biblical, which can be in harmony with Scripture).

As for your observation that the Jerusalem Council was dominated by Apostles, this is only partially true. The text consistently said that the authorities and decision-makers were “apostles and elders.” The elders seem to have had the same practical authority as the apostles, which sets the future precedent, for times after the apostles have died and are no more. I wrote an entire paper about this motif in the Jerusalem council. Then I explored it further, in what the council implied about future pronouncements.

Furthermore, Judas (apostle) is replaced by Matthias (Acts 1:20-26), and the word bishoprick appears in KJV, because episkopos is in the Greek (Acts 1:20: “For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.”). This is one scriptural basis for the historic view (for fifteen centuries) of apostolic succession: bishops replaced the apostles in Church government.

Thus, there can be councils led by bishops, just as the Jerusalem council was jointly led by elders or bishops (the offices still being fluid at that time, because it was early in development of doctrine, just as the Trinity and Two Natures of Christ and original sin and many other doctrines were).

Good point, the Council’s decisions were “extra-biblical” because Acts 10 had not yet been written.

But if we’re honest, the Council in Acts 15 really added nothing new, because Peter had already baptized Cornelius’ household without having them circumcised, and broke kosher law on the strength of his vision that told him “What God has made clean, do not call common.” (Acts 10:15). Peter also silenced his opposition upon his return to Jerusalem (11:1-3, 17-18).

What was really at stake here is Peter’s words “Who was I to withstand God” – not because he was in an infallible Council, but because of divine revelation – his vision of unclean animals and seeing for himself those uncircumcised Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit.

Note that Peter had witnesses, 6 in all, whom he’d brought from Joppa to Caesarea to Jerusalem (Acts 10:23, 11:12), because God was breaking fresh ground. A very wise precaution!

In fact, Peter had to remind the Council of that very incident when he baptized the Gentiles (Acts 15:7-9).

So the “binding dogma”, if you will, had already been binding. The whole reason for the Council, as they said in their letter, was to alleviate the Gentiles’ uneasiness because of what some of the Jerusalem people had said without their authority:

Acts 15:23‭-‬24 (ESV) “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,

Finally, James himself, whose speech decided the Council and whose suggested stipulations were in the letter’s content, warned in Luther’s “epistle of straw”  “We all make many mistakes” (James 3:2). If one sinner, even a writer of Scripture, is prone to make many mistakes, I would be very hesitant to impute infallibility to councils throughout church history.

You can have the last word.

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March 22, 2017

Its Relationship to Pope Sylvester, Athanasius’ Views, & the Unique Preeminence of Catholic Authority

NicaeaIcon

Icon depicting Emperor Constantine, center, accompanied by the Church Fathers of the 325 First Council of Nicaea, holding the Nicene Creed in its 381 form [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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(4-2-07)

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This was a reply to Mr. White’s article, “What Really Happened at Nicea?” (Christian Research Journal, Spring 1997). I shall cite everything in White’s article that I disagree with and reply point-by-point, as is my custom. I don’t pick and choose and ignore everything that might be a bit more difficult to interact with. This will be completely my own response: that of an apologist and non-scholar who appeals to the Church historians who are scholars, regarding such questions. Mr. White’s words will be italicized, and his footnotes will be noted in bracketed numbers, and appear in their totality at the end of the chapter (not italicized).

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Summary

The Council of Nicea is often misrepresented by cults and other religious movements. The actual concern of the council was clearly and unambiguously the relationship between the Father and the Son. Is Christ a creature, or true God? The council said He was true God. Yet, the opponents of the deity of Christ did not simply give up after the council’s decision. In fact, they almost succeeded in overturning the Nicene affirmation of Christ’s deity. But faithful Christians like Athanasius continued to defend the truth, and in the end, truth triumphed over error. The conversation intensified quickly. “You can’t really trust the Bible,” my Latter-day Saints acquaintance said, “because you really don’t know what books belong in it. You see, a bunch of men got together and decided the canon of Scripture at the Council of Nicea, picking some books, rejecting others.” A few others were listening in on the conversation at the South Gate of the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City. It was the LDS General Conference, and I again heard the Council of Nicea presented as that point in history where something “went wrong,” where some group of unnamed, faceless men “decided” for me what I was supposed to believe. I quickly corrected him about Nicea — nothing was decided, or even said, about the canon of Scripture at that council. [1] I was reminded how often the phrase “the Council of Nicea” is used as an accusation by those who reject the Christian faith. New Agers often allege that the council removed the teaching of reincarnation from the Bible. [2] And of course, Jehovah’s Witnesses and critics of the deity of Christ likewise point to that council as the “beginning of the Trinity” or the “first time the deity of Christ was asserted as orthodox teaching.” Others see it as the beginning of the union of church and state in light of the participation of the Roman Emperor, Constantine. Some even say it was the beginning of the Roman Catholic church.

THE BACKGROUND

Excepting the apostolic council in Jerusalem recorded in Acts 15, the Council of Nicea stands above other early councils of the church as far as its scope and its focus. Luther called it “the most sacred of all councils.” [3] When it began on June 19, 325, the fires of persecution had barely cooled. The Roman Empire had been unsuccessful in its attempt to wipe out the Christian faith. Fourteen years had elapsed since the final persecutions under the Emperor Galerius had ended. Many of the men who made up the Council of Nicea bore in their bodies the scars of persecution. They had been willing to suffer for the name of Christ. The council was called by the Emperor Constantine. Leading bishops in the church agreed to participate, so serious was the matter at hand.

Bishops? “Church”? Why is it that, invariably, when a “low church” Baptist like White, who believes in congregational Church government (the furthest thing from episcopacy and hierarchy, let alone apostolic succession and authoritative tradition), and only in “bishops” insofar as a local elder is the equivalent of one – starts talking about the early Church, all of a sudden he casually tosses out words like “bishop” and “church” (in the sense of one unified body)?

Moreover (here is the main point), he does so matter-of-factly, with none of the disdain and derision and palpable animus that characterizes treatments of the same entity among current-day Christians.

Apparently, there was such a thing as “the Church” in this period, but somewhere along the line (Protestants differ as to when) it disappeared. But one Christian communion continues to hold ecumenical councils and to have bishops and an institutional sense of what the Church is, precisely like the Councils of Jerusalem and Nicaea: strangely enough, the same one that James White reads out of Christianity altogether. How incredibly odd and ironic that is.

To understand why the first universal council was called, we must go back to around A.D. 318. In the populous Alexandria suburb of Baucalis, a well-liked presbyter by the name of Arius began teaching in opposition to the bishop of Alexandria, Alexander. Specifically, he disagreed with Alexander’s teaching that Jesus, the Son of God, had existed eternally, being “generated” eternally by the Father. Instead, Arius insisted that “there was a time when the Son was not.” Christ must be numbered among the created beings — highly exalted, to be sure, but a creation, nonetheless.

Very similarly to the present-day heresy of Jehovah’s Witnesses, The Way International, and the Christadelphians . . .

Alexander defended his position, and it was not long before Arius was declared a heretic in a local council in 321. This did not end the matter. Arius simply moved to Palestine and began promoting his ideas there. Alexander wrote letters to the churches in the area, warning them against those he called the “Exukontians,” from a Greek phrase meaning “out of nothing.” Arius taught that the Son of God was created “out of nothing.” Arius found an audience for his teachings, and over the course of the next few years the debate became so heated that it came to the attention of Constantine, the Emperor. Having consolidated his hold on the Empire, Constantine promoted unity in every way possible. He recognized that a schism in the Christian church would be just one more destabilizing factor in his empire, and he moved to solve the problem. [4] While he had encouragement from men like Hosius, bishop of Cordova, and Eusebius of Caesarea, Constantine was the one who officially called for the council. [5]

White is clearly trying to avoid anti-Catholic polemics and rhetoric here (because he was writing for a periodical that is not anti-Catholic, begun by Walter Martin: the Protestant cult-fighter — whom I had the pleasure to meet — who did not consider Catholicism one of the heretical cults). To understand his own thought that lies behind these casual statements, one would have to note, for example, what he wrote on his private sola Scriptura discussion list (where I was an invited member), less than a year before he wrote this article (on 7-15-96):

I simply encourage everyone on the list to read any decent modern historical source, Roman Catholic or Protestant, on the subject of Nicea and the role of the bishop of Rome. The idea that the council was called by, presided over by (through representatives), or was merely conditional until ratified by, the bishop of Rome as the head of the church, is a-historical, untenable, and to my knowledge, not promoted by any serious historian in our age. Oh yes, there are many Roman Catholics who, for solely theological reasons, might promote this idea, but it is anachronism in its finest form, and shows to what length people will go to maintain a tradition.

All agree that Constantine called the council. But that’s not the same as a denial that the pope and his legates were central figures in the authority structure. Note that White claims that no “decent” historian “Roman Catholic or Protestant” would argue otherwise. White himself concedes later in his article that Constantine did not preside over the council, in terms of setting the agenda for the theology and proclamations:

What really was Constantine’s role? Often it is alleged (especially by Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example) that, for whatever reasons, Constantine forced the “same substance” view upon the council, [10] or, at the very least, insured that it would be adopted. This is not the case. There is no question that Constantine wanted a unified church after the Council of Nicea. But he was no theologian, nor did he really care to any degree what basis would be used to forge the unity he desired. Later events show that he didn’t have any particular stake in the term homoousios and was willing to abandon it, if he saw that doing so would be of benefit to him. As Schaff rightly points out with reference to the term itself, “The word…was not an invention of the council of Nicea, still less of Constantine, but had previously arisen in theological language, and occurs even in Origen [185-254] and among the Gnostics….” [11] Constantine is not the source or origin of the term, and the council did not adopt the term at his command.

With regard to the dynamics of the ecclesiastical authority exercised at Nicaea, the key to understanding lies in White’s own subtle phrase, “encouragement from men like Hosius.” Hosius (also known as Ossius: c. 257-357) had, in fact, close ties to Pope Sylvester (r. 314-355). If Hosius played a central role in convincing the emperor to convene the council, then indeed, the pope was a key player, and persuaded Constantine to make possible what he wanted to bring about. We don’t know much about Pope Sylvester (or, “Silvester”), but what we do know is perfectly consistent with a Catholic conception of papal authority. Warren Carroll observed:

The recommendation for a general or ecumenical council . . . had probably already been made to Constantine by Ossius, and most probably to Pope Silvester as well (9). . . Ossius presided over its deliberations; he probably, and two priests of Rome certainly, came as representatives of the Pope. (10)

(The Building of Christendom, Christendom College Press, 1987, 11)

Dr. Carroll, in his footnotes 9 and 10 on pages 33-34, provides very fascinating additional historical insight:

9. Victor C. De Clercq, Ossius of Cordoba (Washington, 1954), pp. 218-226; Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, ed. William R. Clark (Edinburgh, 1894), I, pp. 269-270.

De Clercq thinks that Ossius had already recommended the council to Constantine before the synod of Antioch [March or April 325], which merely joined in the prior recommendation; in view of the close relationship between Ossius and Constantine . . ., this would seem probable . . .

That Pope Silvester I was informed from the first about plans for the Council of Nicaea there is no good reason to doubt, . . .

We know that later, at the 6th Ecumenical Council in Constantinople (680), it was stated as accepted fact – though very much against the interest of the partisans of the episcopate of Constantinople, where the Council was held, who sought to build up their see as a rival to Rome – that “Arius arose as an adversary to the doctrine of the Trinity, and Constantine and Silvester immediately assembled the great Synod of Nicaea” (Hefele, loc. Cit.) . . .

Constantine’s personal role in the calling of the Council of Nicaea does not, from the available evidence, seem to be any greater than the personal role of Emperor Charles V in convening the earlier sessions of the Council of Trent . . .

10. De Clercq, Ossius, pp. 228-250; Hefele, Councils, I, 36-41; Timothy D. Barnes, Constantine and Eusebius (Cambridge, MA, 1981), pp. 214-215. De Clercq’s arguments on this often controverted point are powerfully convincing; his conclusion, that Ossius’ representing Pope Silvester at Nicaea is only a ‘possibility,’ is too modest or too cautious or both. The whole history of the calling of the Council of Nicaea, and the whole history of the Church in the empire for the preceding decade, suggest that Pope Silvester would have designated Ossius for this role. At the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus a century later, Bishop Cyril of Alexandria presided and signed the acts of the Council first, without reference to his role as chief representative of the Pope, and his signature was immediately followed by those of two bishops and a priest specifically designated as representing the Pope – just as in the acts of the Council of Nicaea, Ossius signed first as presiding officer without reference to his representing the Pope, followed by two priests identified as the Pope’s legates. The two situations are exactly parallel; yet in the case of the Council of Ephesus we know for a fact that Cyril of Alexandria had been designated the Pope’s representative. The whole creates a strong presumption that the same was true of Ossius at Nicaea.

The Encyclopedia Britannica (1985 edition), informs us (“Hosius,” vol. 6, p. 77):

Prompted by Hosius, Constantine then summoned the first ecumenical Council of Nicaea (325) . . .

Likewise, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (edited by F. L. Cross, 2nd edition, Oxford University Press, 1983, 668), a very reputable non-Catholic reference, largely concurs:

. . . from 313 to the Council of Nicaea [Hosius] seems to have acted as ecclesiastical adviser to the Emperor Constantine . . . it was apparently in consequence of his report that the Emperor summoned the Nicene Council. There are some grounds for believing that here he presided, and also introduced the Homoousion.

Catholic apologist David Palm added in a letter of 7-16-97:

Here is a quotation from Gelasius [of Cyzicus] the Eastern priest-historian writing about A.D. 475, stating explicitly that Hosius the bishop of Cordova was in effect a papal legate at the council of Nicea. So much for the notion that the popes did not preside at the earliest councils. The translation is mine; it’s fairly literal but functional, I hope:

Hosius himself, the famous Beacon of the Spaniards, held the place of Sylvester, bishop of great Rome, along with the Roman presbyters Vito and Vincent, as they held council with the many [bishops].

(Patrologia Graece 85:1229)

Furthermore, This Rock magazine (p. 27, June 1997), offers the following information:

The Graeco-Russian liturgy, in the office for Pope Silvester, speaks of him as actual head of the Council of Nicaea:

Thou hast shown thyself the supreme one of the Sacred Council, O initiator into the sacred mysteries, and hast illustrated the Throne of the Supreme One of the Disciples.

(From Luke Rivington, The Primitive Church and the See of Peter, London: Longmans, Green, 1894, p. 164)

The late Dr. Warren Carroll replied to a critical post by an Orthodox participant on my discussion list, on 8-19-97:

It is true, and I state, that there is no specific evidence that Ossius was specifically designated as a papal representative at Nicaea. But I maintain that it is highly probable, for the reasons given. Ossius may very well have been–in fact, I would say that he probably was–suggested or even “nominated” as president of the Council by Emperor Constantine, who obviously had complete confidence in him. But since the Pope sent two men to represent him at the Council, it seems unreasonable to me that he would not have confirmed the presiding officer if he were not to designate one of his representatives for that position.

The records of the Council make it clear that Ossius, not Constantine, presided (Eusebius’ vague reference to “several presidents” cannot stand against the records of the Council itself). Constantine was present and did intervene; he promised the Council of Nicaea his support and protection, which he gave it; it might well not have been held but for him. But the presence of papal representatives, specifically designated as such, means it must have had at least the Pope’s approval, otherwise he would not have sent them. All the successful ecumenical councils of the first six centuries of the Church required the cooperation of both Pope and Emperor, and we know that all the others had that. Only for Nicaea, because of our dearth of information about Pope Silvester, is there room for doubt about the Pope’s role.

More evidence can be brought to bear along these lines. Protestant historian Philip Schaff writes:

. . . from Rome the two presbyters Victor or Vitus and Vincentius as delegates of the aged pope Sylvester I . . . Of the Eastern bishops, Eusebius of Caesarea, and of the Western, Hosius, or Osius, of Cordova,1325 had the greatest influence with the emperor. These two probably sat by his side, and presided in the deliberations alternately with the bishops of Alexandria and Antioch. . . . Then Hosius of Cordova appeared and announced that a confession was prepared which would now be read by the deacon (afterwards bishop) Hermogenes of Caesarea, the secretary of the synod. It is in substance the well-known Nicene creed with some additions and omissions of which we are to speak below. It is somewhat abrupt; the council not caring to do more than meet the immediate exigency. The direct concern was only to establish the doctrine of the true deity of the Son. . . . Almost all the bishops subscribed the creed, Hosius at the head, and next him the two Roman presbyters in the name of their bishop. This is the first instance of such signing of a document in the Christian church.

(History of the Christian Church, Vol. III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 5th revised edition, 1910, Chapter IX, § 120. The Council of Nicaea, 325, 624, 627-629)

We know the sort of attitude that Ossius of Cordova had towards the meddling of emperors in the Church and theology, from the evidence of his “protest” letter (the only writing of his that is known to exist) to Constantius II: Roman emperor from 337-361:

You have no right to meddle in religious affairs. God has given you authority over the Empire, But He has given us authority over the Church. In matters of faith it is you who must listen to our instructions.

(in Henri Daniel-Rops, The Church of Apostles and Martyrs, translated by Audrey Butler, London: J. M. Dent & Sons, 1960, 558)

Cease, I entreat you, and remember that you are a mortal. Fear the day of judgment and keep yourself pure against it. . . . as he who would steal the government from you opposes the ordinance of God, even so do you fear lest by taking upon yourself the conduct of the Church, you make yourself guilty of a grave sin. It is written, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.” Therefore it is not permitted to us to bear rule on earth nor have you the right to burn incense. I write this out of anxiety for your salvation.

(from James Shotwell and Louise Loomis, The See of Peter, New York: Columbia University Press, 1927, 578; cited in Roland H. Bainton, Early Christianity, New York: D. Van Nostrand Co., 1960, 168-169)

It doesn’t require any great stretch of logic or imagination, then, to hold (albeit speculatively) that Ossius was presiding solely or primarily over the Council of Nicea, in the actual theological discussion, with the two Roman legates of the Pope, as opposed to Constantine doing so (unless Ossius had a radical change of mind or suffered from a split personality). Daniel-Rops believes that Constantine’s “ecclesiastical counsellors, Ossius in particular and the prelates of Antioch . . . persuaded him to convene a plenary council of Christendom . . .” (ibid., p. 468)

Ossius had presided at the Synod of Antioch the year before (324), when Arius was condemned, and was also a leader at the important Council of Elvira in Spain (306). He also presided over the orthodox Council of Sardica (343, in modern-day Sofia, Bulgaria), which vindicated St. Athanasius, among other things, and gave “the first legal recognition of the bishop of Rome’s jurisdiction over the other sees and was, therefore, the basis for further development of his primacy as pope” (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1985, Vol. X, 450, “Sardica, Council of”).
Historian Michael Grant of Cambridge and Edinburgh University gives some indication of the prominence of Ossius at the Council of Nicaea:

It is not certain who was selected as chairman of the Council — probably several persons in turn, including Ossius, were appointed to preside over its meetings. . . . On somebody’s advice — probably that of Ossius once again — Constantine decided to pronounce that Jesus was homoousios with God, ‘of one substance’.

(Constantine the Great, New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1993, 172-173)

Catholic historian Philip Hughes gives further evidence of Ossius’ prominence:

Who it was that proposed to the council this precise word [homoousios], we do not know. An Arian historian says it was the bishop of Alexandria and Hosius of Cordova. St. Athanasius, who was present at the council, says it was Hosius.

(The Church in Crisis: A History of the General Councils: 325-1870, Garden City, New York: Doubleday / Hanover House, 1961, 33)

Another Catholic historian, John L. Murphy, adds, regarding the pope:

The Roman Pontiff, Sylvester I, was apparently not consulted before Constantine acted, but he ratified the move by sending two legates to the gathering, the Roman priests Victor and Vincentius. It was in this way that the “head” of the college of bishops convoked the meeting — what the authors refer to as the “formal convocation.”

(The General Councils of the Church, Milwaukee: The Bruce Publishing Company, 1960, 28)

Nicea did not come up with something “new” in the creed. Belief in the deity of Christ was as old as the apostles themselves, who enunciated this truth over and over again. [14] References to the full deity of Christ are abundant in the period prior to the Council of Nicea. Ignatius (died c. 108), the great martyr bishop of Antioch, could easily speak of Jesus Christ as God at the opening of the second century. More than once Ignatius speaks of Jesus Christ as “our God.” [15] When writing to Polycarp he can exhort him to “await Him that is above every season, the Eternal, the Invisible, (who for our sake became visible!), the Impalpable, the Impassible, (who for our sake suffered!), who in all ways endured for our sake.” [16] Ignatius shows the highest view of Christ at a very early stage, when he writes to the Ephesians: “There is only one physician, of flesh and of spirit, generate and ingenerate, God in man, true Life in death, Son of Mary and Son of God, first passible and then impassible, Jesus Christ our Lord.” [17] Melito of Sardis (c. 170-180), a much less well-known figure, was tremendously gifted in expressing the ancient faith of the church regarding the deity of Christ:

And so he was lifted up upon a tree and an inscription was provided too, to indicate who was being killed. Who was it? It is a heavy thing to say, and a most fearful thing to refrain from saying. But listen, as you tremble in the face of him on whose account the earth trembled. He who hung the earth in place is hanged. He who fixed the heavens in place is fixed in place. He who made all things fast is made fast on the tree. The Master is insulted. God is murdered. The King of Israel is destroyed by an Israelite hand. [18]

This is all true. White likes and accepts development of doctrine when he agrees with its theological result. But he inconsistently frowns upon it when it doesn’t come out his Baptist anti-Catholic way, and expresses a fuller Catholic concept. We shall see how he applies this double standard in dealing with the papacy, in relation to the same council and statements of various Church Fathers prior to 325.

Nicea was not creating some new doctrine, some new belief, but clearly, explicitly, defining truth against error.

Yes; that is exactly what Catholics believe about development of doctrine.

The council had no idea that they, by their gathering together, possessed some kind of sacramental power of defining beliefs: they sought to clarify biblical truth, not to put themselves in the forefront and make themselves a second source of authority.

Now this is where White starts to become inaccurate, by anachronistically superimposing his sola Scriptura rule of faith onto the ancient Church, when it doesn’t fit at all. He mentioned the council of Jerusalem early in his article. This was the biblical model for Church councils. And this council had absolute authority over Christians. It announced a decree, not simply on the basis of a democratic vote, but grounded in supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit (in effect, infallibility):

For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. (Acts 15:28-29)

The Apostle Paul then went out and delivered this binding teaching:

As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem. (Acts 16:4)

This is not sola Scriptura. It is as far from that as it gets. This is binding Church authority, derived from an authoritative council. There is no reason to believe (though we don’t have a lot of documentation) that the Council of Nicaea regarded itself as any less binding. Indeed, White accepts the Nicene Creed that came from it, and grants it a high authority. He does this because he makes a prior (correct) judgment that it is in line with Holy Scripture, but he does it nonetheless.

Even here, however, White doesn’t fully accept the Nicene Creed, because it contains the line, “I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins,” and as a Baptist, White rejects sacramental baptism altogether, as well as the baptismal regeneration “remission of sins”) that is taught in the Nicene Creed, and indeed held virtually universally in the ancient Church.

The twenty canons of the council, as translated in the Schaff-Wace edition of the Church Fathers, exhibits this authority in many places:

Canon Three: “The Great Synod has stringently forbidden . . .”

Canon Six: “. . . if any one be made bishop without the consent of the Metropolitan, the Great Synod has declared that such a man ought not to be a bishop.”

Canon Fourteen: “. . . the Holy and Great Synod has decreed . . .”

Mr. White apparently thinks that ecumenical councils were the equivalent of modern-day gatherings of evangelical theological societies: people shoot the breeze, present papers, influence each other, and the latest fashionable theological ideas and denominational traditions are bandied about, but this is only to “clarify” and is not “authority.” Nothing is binding; only the Bible is that (but interpreted by whom, of course, is always the dilemma).

Actual Protestant historians, on the other hand, present a vastly different conception of ecumenical councils such as Nicaea. For example, Philip Schaff (note what the great St. Athanasius himself states about Nicaea):

The synodical system in general had its rise in the apostolic council at Jerusalem, . . . The jurisdiction of the ecumenical councils covered the entire legislation of the church, all matters of Christian faith and practice (fidei et morum), and all matters of organization arid worship. The doctrinal decrees were called dogmata or symbola; the disciplinary, canones. At the same time, the councils exercised, when occasion required, the highest judicial authority, in excommunicating bishops and patriarchs. The authority of these councils in the decision of all points of controversy was supreme and final. Their doctrinal decisions were early invested with infallibility; the promises of the Lord respecting the indestructibleness of his church, his own perpetual presence with the ministry, and the guidance of the Spirit of truth, being applied in the full sense to those councils, as representing the whole church. After the example of the apostolic council, the usual formula for a decree was: Visum est Sprirtui Sancto et nobis. Constantine the Great, in a circular letter to the churches, styles the decrees of the Nicene council a divine command; a phrase, however, in reference to which the abuse of the word divine, in the language of the Byzantine despots, must not be forgotten. Athanasius says, with reference to the doctrine of the divinity of Christ: “What God has spoken by the council of Nice, abides forever.” [Schaff cites Isidore and Basil the Great similarly, in this footnote] The council of Chalcedon pronounced the decrees of the Nicene fathers unalterable statutes, since God himself had spoken through them. The council of Ephesus, in the sentence of deposition against Nestorius, uses the formula: “The Lord Jesus Christ, whom he has blasphemed, determines through this most holy council.” Pope Leo speaks of an “irretractabilis consensus” of the council of Chalcedon upon the doctrine of the person of Christ. Pope Gregory the Great even placed the first four councils, which refuted and destroyed respectively the heresies and impieties of Arius, Macedonius, Nestorius, and Eutyches, on a level with the four canonical Gospels. In like manner Justinian puts the dogmas of the first four councils on the same footing with the Holy Scriptures, and their canons by the side of laws of the realm.

(Ibid., Chapter V: The Hierarchy and Polity of the Church, § 65. The Synodical System. The Ecumenical Councils, 331, 340-342)

Many more such appraisals of the authority of ecumenical councils could easily be brought forth, no doubt. But I won’t belabor the point, because it is so evident. White even contends that the bishops assembled in Nicaea had “no idea” that they were there to authoritatively define and decree theological beliefs and dogmas. This is astonishing, breathtaking historical anachronism and revisionism. It simply flows from White’s Anabaptist biases.

This can easily be seen from the fact that Athanasius, in defending the Nicene council, does so on the basis of its harmony with Scripture, not on the basis of the council having some inherent authority in and of itself.

But no one is saying that the council has to be pitted against Scripture! That’s merely typically Protestant dichotomous reasoning. Councils are in harmony with Scripture, but they still have authority to make binding decrees. In other words, to defend a council on the basis that it agrees with Scripture, is not to deny its authority.

Note his words: “Vainly then do they run about with the pretext that they have demanded Councils for the faith’s sake; for divine Scripture is sufficient above all things; but if a Council be needed on the point, there are the proceedings of the Fathers, for the Nicene Bishops did not neglect this matter, but stated the doctrines so exactly, that persons reading their words honestly, cannot but be reminded by them of the religion towards Christ announced in divine Scripture.” [19]

Amen. But how does this change anything? Of course St. Athanasius thought the council was in accord with Scripture. What does White think he would have done: think it was more harmonious with the sayings of Confucius or the Buddha? White is citing St. Athanasius’ work, De Synodis (available online), from section 6. But Athanasius was no Baptist believer in sola Scriptura (a thing that was invented out of expedience in the 16th century). Why don’t we look at some other things that the great saint says in the same work, that don’t quite fit into White’s picture of Church authority. It’s easy to pick out where someone extolls Holy Scripture. But if references to tradition, the Church, and apostolic succession are ignored, a false, inaccurate, incomplete picture is formed. St. Athanasius also writes in the same treatise (my italics):

3. What defect of teaching was there for religious truth in the Catholic Church, . . .

5. . . . about the faith they wrote not, ‘It seemed good,’ but, ‘Thus believes the Catholic Church;’ and thereupon they confessed how they believed, in order to show that their own sentiments were not novel, but Apostolical; and what they wrote down was no discovery of theirs, but is the same as was taught by the Apostles. . . .

7. Having therefore no reason on their side [referring now to the Arian heretics] , but being in difficulty whichever way they turn, in spite of their pretences, they have nothing left but to say; ‘Forasmuch as we contradict our predecessors, and transgress the traditions of the Fathers, therefore we have thought good that a Council should meet; but again, whereas we fear lest, should it meet at one place, our pains will be thrown away, therefore we have thought good that it be divided into two; that so when we put forth our documents to these separate portions, we may overreach with more effect, with the threat of Constantius the patron of this irreligion, and may supersede the acts of Nicaea, under pretence of the simplicity of our own documents.’ . . .

10. Copy of an Epistle from the Council to Constantius Augustus.

We believe that what was formerly decreed was brought about both by God’s command and by order of your piety. For we the bishops, from all the Western cities, assembled together at Ariminum, both that the Faith of the Catholic Church might be made known, and that gainsayers might be detected. For, as we have found after long deliberation, it appeared desirable to adhere to and maintain to the end, that faith which, enduring from antiquity, we have received as preached by the prophets, the Gospels, and the Apostles through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is Keeper of your Kingdom and Patron of your power. . . .

54. This is why the Nicene Council was correct in writing, what it was becoming to say, that the Son, begotten from the Father’s essence, is coessential with Him. And if we too have been taught the same thing, let us not fight with shadows, especially as knowing, that they who have so defined, have made this confession of faith, not to misrepresent the truth, but as vindicating the truth and religiousness towards Christ, and also as destroying the blasphemies against Him of the Ario-maniacs. For this must be considered and noted carefully, that, in using unlike-in-essence, and other-in-essence, we signify not the true Son, but some one of the creatures, and an introduced and adopted Son, which pleases the heretics; but when we speak uncontroversially of the Coessential, we signify a genuine Son born of the Father; though at this Christ’s enemies often burst with rage. What then I have learned myself, and have heard men of judgment say, I have written in few words; but do you, remaining on the foundation of the Apostles, and holding fast the traditions of the Fathers, pray that now at length all strife and rivalry may cease, and the futile questions of the heretics may be condemned, and all logomachy; and the guilty and murderous heresy of the Arians may disappear, and the truth may shine again in the hearts of all, so that all every where may ‘say the same thing’ (1 Cor. i. 10), and think the same thing, and that, no Arian contumelies remaining, it may be said and confessed in every Church, ‘One Lord, one faith, one baptism’ (Eph. iv. 5), in Christ Jesus our Lord, through whom to the Father be the glory and the strength, unto ages of ages. Amen.

St. Athanasius makes a number of statements that do not blend very well at all with some supposed, mythical adherence to sola Scriptura:

But, beyond these sayings, let us look at the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, the Apostles preached and the Fathers kept.

(To Serapion of Thmuis 1:28)

However here too they introduce their private fictions, and contend that the Son and the Father are not in such wise “one,” or “like,” as the Church preaches, but, as they themselves would have it.

(Discourse Against the Arians, III, 3:10)

. . . inventors of unlawful heresies, who indeed refer to the Scriptures, but do not hold such opinions as the saints have handed down, and receiving them as the traditions of men, err, . . .

(Festal Letter 2:6)

See, we are proving that this view has been transmitted from father to father; but ye, O modern Jews and disciples of Caiaphas, how many fathers can ye assign to your phrases?

(Defense of the Nicene Definition, 27)

For, what our Fathers have delivered, this is truly doctrine; . . .

(De Decretis 4)

Hence, Protestant patristics scholar J. N. D. Kelly summarizes Athanasius’ exceedingly un-Baptist, un-evangelical outlook on authority:

So Athanasius, disputing with the Arians , claimed [De decret. Nic. syn. 27] that his own doctrine had been handed down from father to father, whereas they could not produce a single respectable witness to theirs . . . the ancient idea that the Church alone, in virtue of being the home of the Spirit and having preserved the authentic apostolic testimony in her rule of faith, liturgical action and general witness, possesses the indispensable key to Scripture, continued to operate as powerfully as in the days of Irenaeus and Tertullian . . . Athanasius himself, after dwelling on the entire adequacy of Scripture, went on to emphasize [C. gent. I] the desirability of having sound teachers to expound it. Against the Arians he flung the charge [C. Ar. 3, 58] that they would never have made shipwreck of the faith had they held fast as a sheet-anchor to the . . . Church’s peculiar and traditionally handed down grasp of the purport of revelation.

(Early Christian Doctrines, San Francisco: HarperCollins, fifth revised edition, 1978, 45, 47)

The relationship between the sufficient Scriptures and the “Nicene Bishops” should be noted carefully. The Scriptures are not made insufficient by the council;

No one is saying it is. Catholics believe in material sufficiency of Scripture, just not sola Scriptura. They are two vastly different things.

rather, the words of the council “remind” one of the “religion towards Christ announced in divine Scripture.” Obviously, then, the authority of the council is derivative from its fidelity to Scripture.

The authority comes from the fact that it is assembled bishops in agreement with the pope, who agree with the Scripture because they are guided by the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t follow that their authority is thereby lessened. The authority was binding. White cannot accept that because, for him, the individual always reigns supreme, and judges councils and popes and received traditions based on private judgment and individualistic sectarianism and innovative, corrupt denominational traditions. He merely substitutes one tradition (the true, received, apostolic one) for another (private traditions of men, which may or may not be true), and therefore, sometimes he departs from the consensus of apostolic succession (using the same principle that the Arians used with regard to the doctrine of Christ). In other words, sola Scriptura was the heretical, Arian rule of faith, whereas the Catholic rule held by Athanasius and other orthodox fathers, was apostolic succession and the three-legged stool of Church- Scripture-Tradition.

CANON #6

While the creed of the council was its central achievement, it was not the only thing that the bishops accomplished during their meeting. Twenty canons were presented dealing with various disciplinary issues within the church. Of most interest to us today was the sixth, which read as follows:

Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis prevail, that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges. [20]

This canon is significant because it demonstrates that at this time there was no concept of a single universal head of the church with jurisdiction over everyone else. While later Roman bishops would claim such authority, resulting in the development of the papacy, at this time no Christian looked to one individual, or church, as the final authority. This is important because often we hear it alleged that the Trinity, or the Nicene definition of the deity of Christ, is a “Roman Catholic” concept “forced” on the church by the pope. The simple fact of the matter is, when the bishops gathered at Nicea they did not acknowledge the bishop of Rome as anything more than the leader of the most influential church in the West. [21]

The essential silliness of this claim will become apparent, with just a little reflection. White expects the papacy to be full-blown and developed at this fairly early stage in 325. If it isn’t, he’ll reject it on that basis (along with supposed lack of biblical evidence). Yet he won’t apply the same standard to other doctrines that he himself believes in. The most obvious of these is the Two Natures of Christ. The full development of that had to wait for another 126 years: until the Council of Chalcedon in 451; famously led by Pope St. Leo the Great. So if Christology itself was not yet fully formulated, why does White demand that the papacy has to be?

A related example is the divinity or deity or Godhood of the Holy Spirit. This is trinitarian theology: central to all of Christian doctrine. Yet this was not even discussed at Nicaea. The council basically stated only that it “believed in the Holy Spirit.” The full divinity of the Holy Spirit was only explicitly stated 56 years later: at the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 381, over against the Macedonian heresy.

Thirdly, there is the canon of Holy Scripture itself, which was not to be formulated in its lasting form until 393 (68 years later). The first list of the New Testament books as we have them today was from Athanasius in the year 367. At the time of the Council of Nicaea, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Jude were still being disputed. James was not even quoted in the west until around 350! Hebrews was still being questioned in the west and was slow to gain acceptance as canonical, as was Jude. Sts. Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, and Gregory Nazianzen questioned the canonicity of Revelation.

Moreover, the Epistle of Barnabas and Shepherd of Hermas were regarded as biblical books in the famous Codex Sinaiticus of the late fourth century. Lastly, when the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397) decreed the canon of Scripture, this included the deuterocanonical books, or so-called “Apocrypha” that James White does not accept. That was only changed in the 16th century among Protestants.

Fourthly, John Henry Cardinal Newman has pointed out that the doctrine of purgatory (which James White rejects) has far more evidence in its favor in patristic writings than original sin, in this relatively early period.

Furthermore, a mere 18 years later, at the Council of Sardica in 343 (presided over by Hosius / Ossius), papal primacy was explicitly asserted, in canons 3-5, and 9.

More explicit recognitions of papal primacy and supremacy in both east and west explode in the fourth century. They didn’t come out of nowhere. They were consistent developments of what came before, in less developed form.

Modern Christians often have the impression that ancient councils held absolute sway, and when they made “the decision,” the controversy ended. This is not true. Though Nicea is seen as one of the greatest of the councils, it had to fight hard for acceptance. The basis of its final victory was not the power of politics, nor the endorsement of established religion. There was one reason the Nicene definition prevailed: its fidelity to the testimony of the Scriptures.

One must differentiate (as Athanasius and the fathers did) between true authority and the ever-present obstinacy of heretics and schismatics to spurn such authority. Folks can always refuse to accept Church teaching. The heretical Arians did with regard to Nicaea. But that didn’t prove that the council lacked authority: only that they lacked obedience and a Catholic principle of authority.

The Arians followed a sola Scriptura method, divorced from the precedence of received tradition. And so they were led astray. And so it has always been” when the heretics separated biblical interpretation from authoritative teaching of the Church, they strayed into false doctrine. Hence St. Irenaeus constantly appeals to tradition and apostolic succession, over against merely citing the Scriptures, as the heretics were wont to do (my italics):

When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition . . .

It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture or tradition.

. . . But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the successions of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying they themselves are wiser.

. . . Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?

(Against Heresies 3, 2:1 / 3, 2:2 / 3, 4:1)

But as I noted above, White doesn’t believe that Nicaea was totally faithful to the “testimony of the Scriptures,” because he rejects the baptismal regeneration that was plainly taught in the Nicene Creed. he doesn’t care that this was held only by heretics in the early Church. In that respect, he is very much like the Arians who can’t produce the evidence of tradition passed down for their false beliefs, and so pretend that Scripture supports them.

Yet, in the midst of this darkness, a lone voice remained strong. Arguing from Scripture, fearlessly reproaching error, writing from refuge in the desert, along the Nile, or in the crowded suburbs around Alexandria, Athanasius continued the fight. His unwillingness to give place — even when banished by the Emperor,

We have seen that he didn’t argue from Scripture Alone. He was a Catholic, who accepted the binding, infallible nature of an authoritative Church, tradition, and apostolic succession, as the true interpreters of the truths of Scripture. He wasn’t a “lone voice” at all. As Schaff noted of the post-Nicene period:

The whole Western church was in general more steadfast on the side of Nicene orthodoxy, and honored in Athanasius a martyr of the true faith.

(Ibid., vol. III, 634)

Protestant historian Roland Bainton concurs:

The West was orthodox, but Asia Minor leaned towards Arianism.

(Early Christianity, New York: D. Van Nostrand Co., 1960, 69)

The east had a host of heretical patriarchs, while no pope was ever an Arian or even a semi-Arian. White tries to make out that Pope Liberius fell into heresy: “Even Liberius, bishop of Rome, having been banished from his see (position as bishop) and longing to return, was persuaded to give in and compromise on the matter.” To do this, he cites Philip Schaff, but on the same page cited (p. 636 of his Volume III), Schaff noted: “He died in 366 in the orthodox faith, which he had denied through weakness, but not from conviction.”

There is some dispute among historians over whether Liberius caved in at all (one strong piece of evidence against the assertion being the strange silence of Emperor Constantius on the matter). The choices are basically that he caved in under pressure, or didn’t at all. Patrick Madrid observed, mentioning Liberius’ “two years of imprisonment, exile, and harassment” by the emperor Constantius:

But we can’t forget that he was under extreme duress, mentally and physically, and was being coerced with the threat of torture and execution if he didn’t sign. . . . when forced to do something wrong through coercion and threats of violence or death, a person isn’t guilty of the deed as he would be if he had total freedom.

(Pope Fiction, Rancho Santa Fe, California: Basilica Press, 1999, 142-143)

disfellowshipped by the established church, and condemned by local councils and bishops alike — gave rise to the phrase, Athanasius contra mundum: “Athanasius against the world.”

Yes; he was “disfellowshipped” by eastern bishops, but not western ones. As already noted above, he appealed to Pope Julius I (339-342), who reversed the wrong and unjust decisions of the eastern bishops, and was also vindicated by the western council of Sardica in 343. This was rather common among many of the great saints of the east; for example, a bit later in history, St. Basil the Great (371), St. John Chrysostom (404), St. Cyril of Jerusalem (430), and St. Flavian of Constantinople (449), all appealed to, and were supported or sheltered by the popes and the Latin Church. As I wrote in one paper:

The East all too frequently treated its greatest figures much like the ancient Jews did their prophets, often expelling and exiling them, while Rome welcomed them unambiguously, and restored them to office by the authority of papal or conciliar decree. Many of these venerable saints (particularly St. John Chrysostom), and other Eastern saints such as (most notably) St. Ephraim, St. Maximus the Confessor, and St. Theodore of Studios, also explicitly affirmed papal supremacy.

So yes, Athanasius fought against a lot of heretical people, but it was basically the eastern patriarchs and rulers who opposed him, not the west or the Church of Rome, headed by the popes. He wasn’t totally alone in terms of Europe; he had all of that massive support behind him. Therefore, his case can’t be spun as an instance of a lone, Luther-like “sola Scriptura guy” with Scripture in hand against the corruption of the Catholic Church. Quite the contrary . . . that is simply mythical revisionism.

Convinced that Scripture is “sufficient above all things,” [25]

Of course it is; that is different from saying it is the only final authority in Christianity. I have already shown from the same work that this was cited from, how thoroughly Catholic in his views on authority Athanasius was.

Athanasius acted as a true “Protestant” in his day. [26]

Really? It is a strange Protestant who would appeal to a pope to be restored to his see. Most Protestants don’t even believe in bishops, which is what Athanasius was appealing about, let alone the papacy, which is what he was appealing to. That’s acting like a true “Protestant”? Hardly. Nor is his belief in the supreme authority of ecumenical councils. The fallacy is that he was using the Bible alone to fight the Arian heretics. He was not.

Like the other Church fathers, he used Scripture, tradition, Church, and apostolic succession, regarded as a cohesive unit, to oppose them. This is simply not the Protestant methodology. When Luther opposed the Church and argued in favor of doctrinal innovations, he appealed to Scripture Alone and opposed infallible councils and popes. That is exactly the opposite of what Athanasius. That is the true Protestant method.

Athanasius protested against the consensus opinion of the established church, . . .

Only in the east, not the west. The east was no more the whole of the “established church” then, than it is now. The Catholic Church is universal, by definition, not sectarian.

. . . and did so because he was compelled by scriptural authority.

Orthodox Christians believe in Scriptural authority, yes. I do it all the time in my apologetics. It doesn’t make me anything remotely like a Protestant. It was the same with Athanasius. Protestants don’t “own” Holy Scripture.

Athanasius would have understood, on some of those long, lonely days of exile, what Wycliffe meant a thousand years later: “If we had a hundred popes, and if all the friars were cardinals, to the law of the gospel we should bow, more than all this multitude.” [27]

Hardly, since he appealed to a pope for safety and restoration of his bishopric. It’s quite amusing that White actually tries to pit Athanasius against popes (it’s difficult to believe that he is ignorant of all this part of Athanasius’ history), when, for example, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church observes:

[I]n 339 he was forced to flee to Rome, where he established close contacts with the Western Church, which continued throughout his life to support him.

(p. 101, “Athanasius”)

If Athanasius was on the right side, and Rome and the west supported him, then how can they be demonized, as the anti-clerical Wycliffe tries to do? They were on the side of the angels, too! And not just popes; also the bishops of the Council of Sardica in 343 . . . So all of a sudden episcopacy and hierarchy (i.e., orthodox ones, united with the pope) become very good things, in defense of Christian, biblical truths. But White (being a Baptist and anti-Catholic) doesn’t like that, so he engages in historical revisionism and anachronism of the most brazen, tunnel vision sort.

Nicea’s authority rested upon the solid foundation of Scripture.

That is, except when it taught baptismal regeneration, according to Mr. White . . .

The authority of the Nicene creed, including its assertion of the homoousion, is not to be found in some concept of an infallible church, but in the fidelity of the creed to scriptural revelation. It speaks with the voice of the apostles because it speaks the truth as they proclaimed it. Modern Christians can be thankful for the testimony of an Athanasius who stood for these truths even when the vast majority stood against him. We should remember his example in our day.

This is, as is abundantly clear by now, a distortion of what Athanasius believed. White shows himself abominably ignorant of basic historical facts regarding Athanasius. Philip Schaff, example, holds that Athanasius was neither a “proto-Protestant” nor a “proto-Catholic” (which is enough to profoundly differ with White’s estimation):

. . . Voight . . . makes Athanasius even the representative of the formal principle of Protestantism, the supreme authority, sufficiency, and self-interpreting character of the Scriptures; while Mohler endeavors to place him on the Roman side. Both are biassed, and violate history by their preconceptions.

(Ibid., vol. III, 607)

Schaff, being a Protestant, can’t bring himself to see that Athanasius was a full-fledged Catholic, but, being an honest, fair-minded, accurate historian, neither can he fudge the facts and exhibit excessive Protestant bias like White does, so as to make out that Athanasius held to “the formal principle of Protestantism.” Athanasius was, in fact, thoroughly Catholic in his understanding of authority. Schaff simply is unaware of that because he (like many many Protestants, scholars or not) lacks understanding, too, of the proper nature of Catholic authority, then and now. But at least he knows the facts of what Athanasius actually believed, unlike Mr. White. He is simply mistaken as to whether what Athanasius believed is consistent with Catholic teaching on authority and the rule of faith. It is indeed.

[White’s footnotes]:

1 The Council of Nicea did not take up the issue of the canon of Scripture. In fact, only regional councils touched on this issue (Hippo in 393, Carthage in 397) until much later. The New Testament canon developed in the consciousness of the church over time, just as the Old Testament canon did. See Don Kistler, ed., Sola Scriptura: The Protestant Position on the Bible (Morgan, PA: Soli Deo Gloria Publications, 1995).

2 See Joseph P. Gudel, Robert M. Bowman, Jr., and Dan R. Schlesinger, “Reincarnation — Did the Church Suppress It?” Christian Research Journal, Summer 1987, 8-12.

3 Gordon Rupp, Luther’s Progress to the Diet of Worms (New York: Harper and Row Publishers, 1964), 66.

4 Much has been written about Constantine’s religious beliefs and his “conversion” to Christianity. Some attribute to him high motives in his involvement at Nicea; others see him as merely pursuing political ends. In either case, we do not need to decide the issue of the validity of his confession of faith, for the decisions of the Nicene Council on the nature of the Son were not dictated by Constantine, and even after the Council he proved himself willing to “compromise” on the issue, all for the sake of political unity. The real battle over the deity of Christ was fought out in his shadow, to be sure, but it took place on a plane he could scarcely understand, let alone dominate.

5 Later centuries would find the idea of an ecumenical council being called by anyone but the bishop of Rome, the pope, unthinkable. Hence, long after Nicea, in A.D. 680, the story began to circulate that in fact the bishop of Rome called the Council, and even to this day some attempt to revive this historical anachronism, claiming the two presbyters (Victor and Vincentius) who represented Sylvester, the aged bishop of Rome, in fact sat as presidents over the Council. See Philip Schaff’s comments in his History of the Christian Church (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1985), 3:335.

6 Athanasius’s role at the council has been hotly debated. As a deacon, he would not, by later standards, even be allowed to vote. But his brilliance was already seen, and it would eventually fall to him to defend the decisions of the Council, which became his lifelong work.

7 The Latin translation is consubstantialis, consubstantial, which is the common rendering of the term in English versions of the final form of the Nicene Creed.

8 Modalism is the belief that there is one Person in the Godhead who at times acts as the Father, and other times as the Son, and still other times as the Spirit. Modalism denies the Trinity, which asserts that the three Persons have existed eternally.

9 Schaff, 3:624.

10 The only basis that can be presented for such an idea is found in a letter, written by Eusebius of Caesarea during the council itself to his home church, explaining why he eventually gave in and signed the creed, and agreed to the term homoousios. At one point Eusebius writes that Constantine “encouraged the others to sign it and to agree with its teaching, only with the addition of the word ‘consubstantial’ [i.e., homoousios].” The specific term used by Eusebius, parakeleueto, can be rendered as strongly as “command” or as mildly as “advise” or “encourage.” There is nothing in Eusebius’s letter, however, that would suggest that he felt he had been ordered to subscribe to the use of the term, nor that he felt that Constantine was the actual source of the term.

11 Schaff, 3:628.

12 Someone might say that this demonstrates the insufficiency of Scripture to function as the sole infallible rule of faith for the church; that is, that it denies sola scriptura. But sola scriptura does not claim the Bible is sufficient to answer every perversion of its own revealed truths. Peter knew that there would be those who twist the Scriptures to their own destruction, and it is good to note that God has not deemed it proper to transport all heretics off the planet at the first moment they utter their heresy. Struggling with false teaching has, in God’s sovereign plan, been a part of the maturing of His people.

13 For many generations misunderstandings between East and West, complicated by the language differences (Greek remaining predominate in the East, Latin becoming the normal language of religion in the West), kept controversy alive even when there was no need for it.

14 Titus 2:13, 2 Pet. 1:1, John 1:1-14, Col. 1:15-17, Phil. 2:5-11, etc.

15 See, for example, his epistle to the Ephesians, 18, and to the Romans, 3, in J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds., The Apostolic Fathers (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1984), 141 and 150.

16 Polycarp 3, The Apostolic Fathers, 161.

17 Ephesians 7, The Apostolic Fathers, 139.

18 Melito of Sardis, A Homily on the Passover, sect. 95-96, as found in Richard Norris, Jr., The Christological Controversy (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1980), 46. This homily is one of the best examples of early preaching that is solidly biblical in tone and Christ-centered in message.

19 Athanasius, De Synodis, 6, as found in Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, eds., Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Series II (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983), IV:453.

20 Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Series II, XIV:15.

21 For those who struggle with the idea that it was not “Roman Catholicism” that existed in those days, consider this: if one went into a church today, and discovered that the people gathered there did not believe in the papacy, did not believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Bodily Assumption of Mary, purgatory, indulgences, did not believe in the concept of transubstantiation replete with the communion host’s total change in accidence and substance, and had no tabernacles on the altars in their churches, would one think he or she was in a “Roman Catholic” church? Of course not. Yet, the church of 325 had none of these beliefs, either. Hence, while they called themselves “Catholics,” they would not have had any idea what “Roman Catholic” meant.

22 Ammianus Marcellinus, as cited by Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1985), III:632.

23 For a discussion of the lapse of Liberius, see Schaff, III:635-36. For information on the relationship of Liberius and the concept of papal infallibility, see George Salmon, The Infallibility of the Church (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1959), 425-29, and Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1985), I:176-78.

24 Jerome, Adversus Luciferianos, 19, Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Series II, 6:329.

25 Athanasius, De Synodis, 6, Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Series II, 4:453.

26 I credit one of my students, Michael Porter, with this phraseology.

27 Robert Vaughn, The Life and Opinions of John de Wycliffe (London: Holdworth and Ball, 1831), 313. See 312-17 for a summary of Wycliffe’s doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture.

28 Augustine, To Maximim the Arian, as cited by George Salman [sic], The Infallibility of the Church (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1959), 295.

November 9, 2013

DavidKingSpoof
(11-9-13)

In Vol. III, Ch. 2 (“The Ultimate Authority of Scripture”). Webster and King cite the following passages from St. Cyril:

Have thou ever in your mind this seal , which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.

[Catechetical Lectures, IV: 17]

And first let us inquire for what cause Jesus came down. Now mind not my argumentations, for perhaps you may be misled but unless thou receive testimony of the Prophets on each matter, believe not what I say: unless thou learn from the Holy Scriptures concerning the Virgin, and the place, the time, and the manner, receive not testimony from man. For one who at present thus teaches may possibly be suspected: but what man of sense will suspect one that prophesied a thousand and more years beforehand? If then you seek the cause of Christ’s coming, go back to the first book of the Scriptures.

[Catechetical Lectures, XII:5]

Catholics have no problem with these statements. We only would if Cyril intended them to be in opposition to or in exclusion of the authority of the Church and tradition; but of course he doesn’t do that. In other passages that Webster and King conveniently omit, he acknowledges these.

In the same Lecture 4 (first quote above), St. Cyril writes at length about Holy Scripture (sections 33-36). How does he instruct a believer to determine which books are in the Bible? He does so by an extrabiblical authority: the Church:

Learn also diligently, and from the Church, what are the books of the Old Testament, and what those of the New. (IV:33)

Right off the bat, this is contrary to several of the tenets that the authors laid out in the Introduction to Vol. III:

3.) All doctrines must be proven from Scripture.
4.) What the Apostles taught orally has been handed down in Scripture.
5.) Scripture is the ultimate judge in all controversies.
6.) Scripture is the ultimate and supreme authority for the Church.
7.) If Scripture is silent on an issue it cannot be known.

The canon of Scripture is never listed in Scripture, which contradicts all five tenets above. Scripture is silent on that issue, and Webster and King say, therefore, that it can’t be known (#7). But the canon is known through the authority of the Catholic Church. The Church delivers Holy Scripture to the Christian believer. Protestantism has never been able to rationalize away this clear contradiction of sola Scriptura. Hence, Cyril states:

Study earnestly these only which we read openly in the Church. Far wiser and more pious than yourself were the Apostles, and the bishops of old time, the presidents of the Church who handed down these books. Being therefore a child of the Church, trench thou not upon its statutes. (IV:35)

Moreover, when Cyril lists the books of the Old Testament, delivered authoritatively by the Church, he includes “Jeremiah . . . including Baruch and Lamentations and the Epistle” (IV:35). Baruch was thrown out of Protestant Bibles, but accepted by the Church fathers and Catholics. The “Epistle of Jeremiah” is the last chapter of Baruch in Catholic Bibles, but excluded by Protestant ones. In the next section (IV:36), he lists all New Testament books except for Revelation, and states: “. . . whatever books are not read in Churches, these read not even by yourself,. . .”

Thus — so Cyril would say — , not only is Revelation not Scripture, but not to be read at all by an individual. This is because the canon of the Bible was itself a developing doctrine of the Church. Revelation was one of the last books accepted. Cyril died in the decade before the Church finalized the canon at the councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). These included the deuterocanonical books (what Protestants call the “Apocrypha”: those that they arbitrarily reject).

This is an example of why Catholics don’t grant individual Church fathers binding authority: only the Church in its authoritative pronouncements (through councils and popes) has that. The fathers are guides when they agree en masse. The canon was still developed, and reached its final development shortly after Cyril. But neither what he said about the biblical canon, nor what the Church declared shortly afterwards, comports totally with what Protestants think, nor with sola Scriptura.

We know that St. Cyril cited deuterocanonical books in these same Catechetical Instructions; e.g., Wisdom of Solomon (9:2; 9:16; 12:5), Sirach (6:4; 11:19; 13:8), and the chapters of Daniel that Protestants discarded (14:25; 16:31).

Commenting on the Creed, Cyril again upholds a strong notion of the authority of the Catholic Church:

Now then let me finish what still remains to be said for the Article, In one Holy Catholic Church, on which, though one might say many things, we will speak but briefly.

It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly . . . (XVIII:22-23)

Now, imagine if Cyril had said this about Scripture, that it “teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge.” Webster and King would be all over that as proof that he was teaching material sufficiency of Scripture and also formal sufficiency (“complete”). But here he is stating these attributes with regard to the Church, not Scripture (the Church teaches with completeness, just as Scripture does); and so for that reason, Webster and King decided that this passage was not commensurate with their sophistical plan of “proving” that the Scripture alone provides this sort of sufficiency or “completeness” — and they deliberately omitted it.

This is their standard practice with all the Church fathers, and it’s intellectually dishonest, on the grounds that a half-truth or a partial truth is almost as bad as a lie. They habitually present one strain of patristic teaching that agrees with Catholicism: glowing remarks about Holy Scripture, while ignoring all that is said of the Church, tradition, apostolic succession, bishops, councils, popes, etc.

Even this would be acceptable if their stated intent was simply to show what the fathers believed about Scripture. We would have no beef with that. But this isn’t what they are doing. They claim that the fathers taught sola Scriptura: the notion that nothing is infallible or finally binding except scriptural teaching. That’s not true (as a matter of demonstrable fact), and it’s shown to not be true precisely by noting what these fathers thought about these other elements of authority (the Church, tradition, apostolic succession, bishops, councils, popes). St. Cyril rejects all sectarianism and denominationalism:

Concerning this Holy Catholic Church Paul writes to Timothy, That you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the House of God, which is the Church of the Living God, the pillar and ground of the truth [1 Tim 3:15].

But since the word Ecclesia is applied to different things (as also it is written of the multitude in the theatre of the Ephesians, And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the Assembly [Acts 19:14], and since one might properly and truly say that there is a Church of evil doers, I mean the meetings of the heretics, the Marcionists and Manichees, and the rest, for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to you now the Article, And in one Holy Catholic Church; that you may avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which you were regenerated. And if ever you are sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, . . . (XVIII:25-26)

He teaches that salvation comes through the Catholic Church:

In this Holy Catholic Church receiving instruction and behaving ourselves virtuously, we shall attain the kingdom of heaven, and inherit eternal life; . . . (XVIII:28)

He refers to the passing-on of apostolic tradition:

And now, brethren beloved, the word of instruction exhorts you all, to prepare your souls for the reception of the heavenly gifts. As regards the Holy and Apostolic Faith delivered to you to profess, we have spoken through the grace of the Lord as many Lectures, as was possible,. . . (XVIII:32)

Make thou your fold with the sheep: flee from the wolves: depart not from the Church. . . . The truth of the Unity of God has been delivered to you: learn to distinguish the pastures of doctrine. (VI:36)

He refers to “the divine Scriptures used in the Church” and “the tradition of the Church’s interpreters” (XV:13). This goes against Webster and King’s typically Protestant notion that “Scripture interprets Scripture, i.e., it is self-interpreting.”

He regards the Church as the determinant of orthodoxy, insofar as what it holds, is apostolic Christianity:

And to be brief, let us neither separate them, nor make a confusion : neither say thou ever that the Son is foreign to the Father, nor admit those who say that the Father is at one time Father, and at another Son: for these are strange and impious statements, and not the doctrines of the Church. (XI:18)

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise. For men have fallen away from the truth, and have itching ears. [2 Tim 4:3] Is it a plausible discourse? All listen to it gladly. Is it a word of correction? All turn away from it. Most have departed from right words, and rather choose the evil, than desire the good. This therefore is the falling away, and the enemy is soon to be looked for: and meanwhile he has in part begun to send forth his own forerunners , that he may then come prepared upon the prey. Look therefore to yourself, O man, and make safe your soul. The Church now charges you before the Living God; she declares to you the things concerning Antichrist before they arrive. Whether they will happen in your time we know not, or whether they will happen after you we know not; but it is well that, knowing these things, you should make yourself secure beforehand. (XV:9)

. . . the Catholic Church guarding you beforehand has delivered to you in the profession of the faith,  . . . (XVII:3)

He speaks in terms of the Catholic “three-legged stool” rule of faith: tradition, Church, and Scripture: all harmonious:

But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to you by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures. For since all cannot read the Scriptures, some being hindered as to the knowledge of them by want of learning, and others by a want of leisure, in order that the soul may not perish from ignorance, we comprise the whole doctrine of the Faith in a few lines. This summary I wish you both to commit to memory when I recite it , and to rehearse it with all diligence among yourselves, not writing it out on paper , but engraving it by the memory upon your heart , taking care while you rehearse it that no Catechumen chance to overhear the things which have been delivered to you. . . . for the present listen while I simply say the Creed , and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents. For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which you now receive, and write them on the table of your heart.

Guard them with reverence, lest per chance the enemy despoil any who have grown slack; or lest some heretic pervert any of the truths delivered to you. For faith is like putting money into the bank , even as we have now done; but from you God requires the accounts of the deposit. I charge you, as the Apostle says, before God, who quickens all things, and Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession, that you keep this faith which is committed to you, without spot, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. (V: 12-13)

At every turn, then, we see that St. Cyril is thoroughly Catholic, and does not teach sola Scriptura. Webster and King have misled their readers in claiming the contrary, by trotting out just two passages, while ignoring the many other relevant ones that I have highlighted above.

* * * * *
March 14, 2024

Dr. Gavin Ortlund is a Reformed Baptist author, speaker, pastor, scholar, and apologist for the Christian faith. He has a Ph.D. from Fuller Theological Seminary in historical theology, and an M.Div from Covenant Theological Seminary. Gavin is the author of seven books as well as numerous academic and popular articles. For a list of publications, see his CV. He runs the very popular YouTube channel Truth Unites, which seeks to provide an “irenic” voice on theology, apologetics, and the Christian life. See also his website, Truth Unites and his blog.

In my opinion, he is currently the best and most influential popular-level Protestant apologist, who (especially) interacts with and offers thoughtful critiques of Catholic positions, from a refreshing ecumenical (not anti-Catholic), but nevertheless solidly Protestant perspective. That’s what I want to interact with, so I have issued many replies to Gavin and will continue to do so. I use RSV for all Bible passages unless otherwise specified.

All of my replies to Gavin are collected on the top of my Calvinism & General Protestantism web page in the section, “Replies to Reformed Baptist Gavin Ortlund.” Gavin’s words will be in blue.

This is my 27th reply to his material.

*****

I am responding to two portions of Gavin’s video, “Trent Horn on the Papacy REBUTTED” (4-6-21).

23:41 None of the Old Testament offices had the ability to speak infallibly, for example, so the papacy, I would say, is not consistent in any specific way with God’s general ways of working throughout the Old Testament. It is an innovation or a new development.

I don’t see how Gavin could say this. I believe that he didn’t think about it long enough before saying it, because he’s a very sharp guy. The analogous examples in the Old Testament are numerous. The following Bible passages are from KJV rather than my usual RSV, because they are taken from my book,  Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths (2009), which had so much Scripture it had to be KJV, for copyright reasons.

The most obvious Old Testament analogy to infallible popes are the prophets, who spoke infallibly, passing along the “the word of the LORD” — and quite arguably, these were inspired well, since God’s words are His words, and they are always not only infallible, but inspired (literally “God-breathed”). So the argument would be that OT prophets had an even greater gift of certain teaching than popes: they were absolutely right all the time. when proclaiming a prophetic message. Here are many examples of that:

Deuteronomy 5:5: (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the work of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;)… (RSV: “to declare to you the word of the LORD”; Moses; cf. 1 Chron 15:15; 2 Chron 35:6)

1 Samuel 15:10: Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, (cf. 1 Chron. 11:3)

2 Samuel 7:4: And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, (cf. 1 Chron 17:3)

2 Samuel 23:2: The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. (King David: cf. 1 Chron. 22:8)

2 Samuel 24:11: For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David’s seer, saying,

1 Kings 6:11: And the word of the LORD came to Solomon, saying,

1 Kings 13:20-21: And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back: [21] And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,

1 Kings 15:29: . . . according unto the saying of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Ahijah the Shilonite:

1 Kings 17:24: And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth. (see also: 16:1, 7, 12 [Jehu]; 16:34 [Joshua]; 17:2, 8, 16 [Elijah]; 18:1 [Elijah] )

2 Kings 1:17: So he died according to the word of the LORD which Elijah had spoken . . .

2 Kings 7:1: Then Elisha said, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the LORD . . .

2 Kings 9:36: Wherefore they came again, and told him. And he said, This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite . . . (cf. 10:17)

2 Kings 14:25: . . . according to the word of the LORD God of Israel, which he spake by the hand of his servant Jonah, the son of Amittai, the prophet . . .

2 Kings 20:4: And it came to pass, afore Isaiah was gone out into the middle court, that the word of the LORD came to him, saying, (cf. 20:16, 19; 23:16)

2 Kings 24:2: . . . according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servants the prophets.

2 Chronicles 11:2: But the word of the LORD came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying, (cf. 12:7)

2 Chronicles 24:19-20: Yet he sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the LORD; and they testified against them: but they would not give ear. [20] And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.

2 Chronicles 30:12: Also in Judah the hand of God was to give them one heart to do the commandment of the king and of the princes, by the word of the LORD.

2 Chronicles 36:21: To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah . . . (cf. 36:22; Ezra 1:1; Jer. 1:2, 4; 2:4; 7:2; 13:3, 8; 14:1; 16:1; 18:5; 19:3; 21:11; 22:2, 29; 24:4; 28:12; 29:30; several more times in Jeremiah; Dan. 9:2)

Nehemiah 9:30: Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them by thy spirit in thy prophets:… (RSV: “Many years thou didst bear with them, and didst warn them by thy Spirit through thy prophets”)

Isaiah 38:4: Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying, (cf. 39:5, 8; 66:5)

Jeremiah 25:3: From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, even unto this day, that is the three and twentieth year, the word of the LORD hath come unto me [Jeremiah], and I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye have not hearkened.

Jeremiah 26:15: But know ye for certain, that if ye put me to death, ye shall surely bring innocent blood upon yourselves, and upon this city, and upon the inhabitants thereof: for of a truth the LORD hath sent me [Jeremiah] unto you to speak all these words in your ears.

Ezekiel 33:1: Again the word of the LORD came unto me [Ezekiel], saying,

“Word of the LORD” appears sixty times in the book of Ezekiel, usually in reference to the prophet Ezekiel.

Hosea 1:1: The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea . . . (cf. 4:1)

Joel 1:1: The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.

Amos 7:16: Now therefore hear thou the word of the LORD . . .

Jonah 1:1: Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, (cf. 3:1, 3)

Micah 1:1: The word of the LORD that came to Micah . . .

Zephaniah 1:1: The word of the LORD which came unto Zephaniah . . .

Haggai 1:13: Then spake Haggai the LORD’s messenger in the LORD’s message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD. (cf. 1:1, 3; 2:1, 10, 20)

Zechariah 1:1: . . . the word of the LORD unto Zechariah . . . (cf. 1:7; 6:9; 7:1, 4, 8; 8:1, 18)

Zechariah 7:12: Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 1:1: The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

The following passage refers to the Levites, who were the appointed teachers in Israel:

Malachi 2:6-8: The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. [7] For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. [8] But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

The prophets received their inspiration by the Holy Spirit (Num. 11:29; 2 Chron. 24:20; Neh. 9:30; Ezek. 3:24; 11:5; Zech. 7:12; Acts 28:25; 2 Pet. 1:21). The Holy Spirit (as a result of the New Covenant) is now given to all Christians (John 15:26; 1 Cor. 3:16), so it is perfectly possible and plausible that an even greater measure of the Holy Spirit would be given to leaders of the Church who have the responsibility to teach, since James wrote: “Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness” (James 3:1). The disciples were reassured by Jesus: “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13; cf. 8:32, RSV), so surely it makes sense that shepherds of the Christian flock would be given an extra measure of protection in order to better fulfill their duties.

Jesus called John the Baptist “more than a prophet” (Luke 7:26, RSV) and stated, “among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he” (Luke 7:28, RSV). Therefore, it is not in the least implausible that one man: the pope, could be infallible, which is a far lesser gift than the inspiration and direct revelation from God exhibited by the prophets.

Briefly put, then, the argument is: “If prophets spoke with inspiration, then popes can plausibly speak infallibly, since the latter is a far less extraordinary gift than the former.” Or, from a different angle: “If those with lesser gifts can do the great thing (inspired utterance), then those with greater gifts can certainly do the lesser thing (infallible utterance).”

Here is how the New Testament describes prophets:

Matthew 1:22: Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, (cf. 2:15)

Luke 1:70: As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Acts 28:25: And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

2 Peter 1:21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Further New Testament references to prophets (which remain an office) and prophesying: Acts 2:16-18; 11:27-28; 13:1; 15:32; 19:6; 21:9-10; Rom. 12:6; 1 Cor. 11:4-5; 12:10, 28-29; 14:1, 3-6, 22, 24, 29, 31-32, 37, 39; Eph. 3:5; 4:11; 1 Thess. 5:20; 1 Tim. 1:18; 4:14.

Infallibility is a limited, far less profound “negative” protection against error. Everyone who holds to the inspiration of Scripture already believes that St. Peter wrote inspired words from God in the Bible. Where, then, is the inherent difficulty in believing that he and his successors could be protected by the Holy Spirit to write infallible documents (see, e.g., John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13; Acts 15:28)? The more difficult thing to believe, the thing that requires far more faith, since it is a greater gift, is already accepted, so what insuperable prima facie difficulty remains in the notion of infallible (as opposed to inspired) popes (and an infallible Church)?

The prophets are the most analogous to the infallibility of popes. But they were not part of the religious system; they were outside of it: usually rebuking the corrupt people in it. The difference in the new covenant is that God promises to protect the institutional system of the Church from error (“it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us” — Acts 15:28: the Jerusalem Council). The Church is a far more spiritually advanced entity.

25:02 There’s no qualitative difference in terms of authority between Peter and the other apostles 

Galatians 1:15-19 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace, [16] was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood, [17] nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned to Damascus. [18] Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. [19] But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

Why did Paul first go to Peter, when he wished to consult with Christians besides Ananias? This is just one of many indications of Peter’s leadership.

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,500+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-five books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

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Photo credit: The Prophet Isaiah, by Valentin Bouché (1490–1541) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

Summary: Gavin Ortlund claimed there was nothing in the OT anything like infallibility, so that the papacy was an “innovation.” Really? The prophets spoke “the word of the LORD.”

 

 

March 12, 2024

Including Gavin’s Exceptionally Ecumenical & Irenic Statements About the Catholic Church & Catholics

Dr. Gavin Ortlund is a Reformed Baptist author, speaker, pastor, scholar, and apologist for the Christian faith. He has a Ph.D. from Fuller Theological Seminary in historical theology, and an M.Div from Covenant Theological Seminary. Gavin is the author of seven books as well as numerous academic and popular articles. For a list of publications, see his CV. He runs the very popular YouTube channel Truth Unites, which seeks to provide an “irenic” voice on theology, apologetics, and the Christian life. See also his website, Truth Unites and his blog.

In my opinion, he is currently the best and most influential popular-level Protestant apologist, who (especially) interacts with and offers thoughtful critiques of Catholic positions, from a refreshing ecumenical (not anti-Catholic), but nevertheless solidly Protestant perspective. That’s what I want to interact with, so I have issued many replies to Gavin and will continue to do so. I use RSV for all Bible passages unless otherwise specified.

All of my replies to Gavin are collected on the top of my Calvinism & General Protestantism web page in the section, “Replies to Reformed Baptist Gavin Ortlund.” Gavin’s words will be in blue.

This is my 25th reply to his material.

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I will be responding to roughly the first half of Gavin’s video, “Why I Don’t Accept The Papacy” (1-1-21).

0:43 Let me just say at the beginning here — because I’m going to be criticizing Roman Catholic theology — I want to start off by saying several things that I admire about my Roman Catholic friends and about the Catholic tradition. . . . “irenic” means aiming for peace and that is really important to me now. Irenicism doesn’t mean that we don’t contend for truth  . . . I think arguing for truth is really healthy, but it’s really important to me to have these conversations in as peaceable a way as possible. Part of that is just the state of dialogue in our culture right now. I think those of us who are followers of Christ need to model something better . . . I think that’s what the gospel calls us to do. . . . I need to be gracious and I need to be kind because of what God has done for me . . . I know I talk about that a lot, but it’s not just sort of a stylistic thing for me or icing on the cake . . . First Corinthians 13 says without love we’re a “resounding cymbal or clanging gong.” Love is essential for these conversations. I really believe that. 

Amen! I appreciate this very much, and I’m sure many Catholics do.  So often critiques of Catholicism and/or Catholics (and vice versa) are done in a spirit of both ignorance and (usually also) malice and hostility. Well done! I’ve always thought, too, that we can and should have these theological discussions in a jovial, mutually respective manner, and learn from each other, while we are also defending our own views and critiquing the other side’s position. I have sought to use the same approach in my 27 years online, and before. So it’s refreshing to see this. Music to my ears . . .

2:39 Catholics — generally speaking (obviously these are generalizations) —  do better than Protestants [in] philosophy and logic; especially in the Thomist tradition, and a lot of evangelicals are kind of iffy on philosophy, which is unfortunate. Number two [and three]: literature and the arts. Almost all [of] my favorite writers are Catholic: Malcolm Muggeridge,  G. K. Chesterton, Dorothy Sayers [she was actually Anglican], J. R. R. Tolkien, many others; architecture and liturgy and . . . the aesthetics of worship. Not all Protestants are bad at that, but many are. Number four: history and Latin. Latin is my favorite language, . . . and number five: social and political philosophy and even certain areas of moral philosophy . . . whatever you think about the Roman Catholic view on contraception, they’ve thought about that way more than many evangelicals have, and I admire their consistency and I admire [the fact] that they don’t just move with the times. 

Excellent. Returning the “favor,” I would point to my own articles, My Respect for Protestants / Catholic Ecumenical Principles [2001; addendum: 1-8-03] ,Gratefulness for My Evangelical Protestant Background [3-18-08], and What I Like About Calvinism and Calvinists [June 2009].

3:41 I don’t know if it’s weird to mention those things, but I’m just trying to be as productive as possible in the way we talk about these things.

5:44 the main text I think that is at play when we’re talking about the papacy is Matthew 16. And the thing that’s been so helpful for me
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6:32 one of the big questions is what is this rock? Is it Peter as a person or in his office, [or] is it the confession Peter just made or is it Jesus, and then if it’s Peter, is it Peter in such a way that could support the doctrine of the papacy or something that would get you to the doctrine of the papacy
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In my many treatments of this topic, I have cited many Protestants in support of Peter being the Rock. This is believed by a remarkable number of eminent Protestant exegetes and reference sources, including New Bible Dictionary, Word Studies in the New Testament (Marvin Vincent), Wycliffe Bible Commentary, New Bible Commentary, Anchor Bible (William F. Albright and C. S. Mann), Tyndale New Testament Commentaries (R. T. France), Expositor’s Bible Commentary (D. A. Carson), Eerdmans Bible Commentary, Henry Alford, Herman N. Ridderbos, Albert Barnes, David Hill, M. Eugene Boring, William Hendriksen, John A. Broadus, Carl Friedrich Keil, Gerhard Kittel, Oscar Cullmann, Peake’s Commentary, Gerhard Maier, J. Knox Chamblin, Craig L. Blomberg, William E. McCumber, Donald A. Hagner, Philip Schaff, Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: The Gospel According to Matthew, vol. 8, The Layman’s Bible Commentary, Encyclopaedia Britannica (1985; article by D. W. O’Connor, a Protestant), Robert McAfee Brown, and Richard Baumann.
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If we want to look at the claim that Jesus’ phrase “keys of the kingdom” has Isaiah 22 in mind, the following Protestants agree with that: W. F. Albright and C. S. Mann, Roland de Vaux, Craig S. Keener, M. Eugene Boring, The Interpreter’s Bible, S. T. Lachs, R. T. France, Ralph Earle (Beacon Bible Commentary), J. Jeremias, F. F. Bruce, Oscar Cullman, New Bible Dictionary, T. W. Manson, Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary, Adam Clarke’s Commentary, Martin Luther, New Bible Commentary.
F. F. Bruce, perhaps the most famous and well-regarded of the above group, wrote:
The keys of a royal or noble establishment were entrusted to the chief steward or majordomo; he carried them on his shoulder in earlier times, and there they served as a badge of the authority entrusted to him. About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim . . . . (Isaiah 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward. (The Hard Sayings of Jesus [Downers Grove, Illinois: Intervarsity, 1983], 143-144)

If the argument is indeed so weak, as Gavin thinks, why do so many Protestant scholars agree with key and essential elements of it? They may deny papal succession, but that is a separate discussion. I think they have inadequate reasons to deny the succession and that it follows logically from Petrine primacy.

6:57 you need infallible teaching coming from this office 

Acts 15:28: “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us.” That’s not only infallible; it’s inspired. Peter was the key figure at the council. After “there had been much debate” (15:7), Peter spoke about how God revealed to him the inclusion of the Gentiles and stated, “by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel” (15:7). And he led because God had given him — as the leader — a vision, described a few chapters earlier. When he was done the text says, “And all the assembly kept silence” (15:12). Then James the bishop of Jerusalem, acting in effect as master of ceremonies, says, “Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles” (15:14) and “with this the words of the prophets agree” (15:15). He adds nothing to Peter’s declaration; he only reiterated it. The “apostles and elders” worked together in the council with Peter, just as ecumenical councils function. Paul then went out and proclaimed the decree of the Jerusalem Council far and wide (Acts 16:4).

7:02 among the Church fathers you have all three of those major views represented: that the rock is Jesus, that the rock is Peter, [and] that the rock is Peter’s confession, and then what’s so interesting is you have a lot of hybrid views where it’s some combination thereof. And when we get into that we need to be asking what’s the logical relationship between these, so if it’s both Peter and Jesus how is that the case; how is it both of them and why is it both of them?

Jesus is the ultimate leader of the Church, of course, but Peter is the human leader on earth, who has successors. See my paper, Can Christ & Peter Both be “Rocks”? [4-21-22]. Gavin then mentions different views among the Church fathers concerning who the “rock” is. I would make note of two of the most respected Protestant exegetes of our time:

R. T. France wrote:
Jesus now sums up Peter’s significance in a name, Peter . . . The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as v. 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus . . . It is to Peter, not to his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied . . . (in Leon Morris, General Editor, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press/Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1985, vol. 1: Matthew, 254, 256)
D. A. Carson, another highly respected Protestant exegete, observed:
[I]f it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretation, it is doubtful whether many would have taken ‘rock’ to be anything or anyone other than Peter . . . In this passage Jesus is the builder of the church and it would be a strange mixture of metaphors that also sees him within the same clauses as its foundation . . .” (in Frank E. Gaebelein, General Editor, Expositor’s Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1984, vol. 8: Matthew, Mark, Luke [Matthew: D. A. Carson], 368)

Here are fourteen explicit examples of Church fathers calling Peter the rock (one could also say that he was the rock based on his confession of faith; but nevertheless, he was the rock upon which the Church was established; that both things were true; also that Jesus was the rock, too, but in a different sense):

Tertullian, writing around 200-220, stated that “Peter . . . is called the Rock whereon the Church was to be built” (Prescription against Heretics, 22).

Origen writing around 230-250, called Peter “that great foundation of the Church, and most solid rock, upon which Christ founded the Church” (In Exod. Hom. v. n. 4, tom. ii) and “Upon him (Peter)  . . . the Church was founded” (In Epist. ad Rom. lib. v. c. 10, tom. iv) and “Peter upon whom is built Christ’s Church” (T. iv. In Joan. Tom. v.).

St. Cyprian, c. 246, wrote about “Peter, upon whom by the same Lord the Church had been built” (Epistle 54 to Cornelius, 7).

Firmilian, c. 254, wrote about “one Church, which was once first established by Christ on a Rock” (Inter Ep. S. Cyp. Ep. lxxv).

Aphraates (c. 336) stated that “the Lord . . . set him up as the foundation, called him the rock and structure of the Church” (Homily 7:15, De Paenitentibus).

St. Ephraem (c. 350-370) called Peter “the foundation of the holy Church” (Homilies 4:1).

St. Hilary of Poitiers in 360 held that Peter was “the foundation-stone of the Church” (On the Trinity, Bk. VI, 20).

St. Gregory of Nazianzen (370) stated that Peter “is entrusted with the Foundations of the Church” (T. i. or. xxxii. n. 18).

St. Gregory of Nyssa (371) wrote that Peter was “the Head of the Apostles . . . (upon him) is the Church of God firmly established. . . . that unbroken and most firm Rock upon which the Lord built His Church” (Alt. Or. De S. Steph.).

St. Basil the Great (371) stated that Peter “received on himself the building of the Church” (Adversus Eunomius 2:4).

St. Epiphanius (c. 385): “upon which (Rock) the Church is in every way built . . . Foundation of the house of God” (Adv. Haeres.).

St. Ambrose (c. 385-389): “whom when He styles a Rock, He pointed out the Foundation of the Church” (T. ii. l. iv. De Fide, c. v. n. 56).

St. John Chrysostom (c. 387): “Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church . . . that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, the First of the disciples” (T. ii. Hom. iii. de Paenit. n. 4).

St. Jerome (385): “Peter, upon whom the Lord has founded the Church” (Letters 41, 2).

St. Augustine got this wrong, as Gavin noted. We don’t regard Church fathers as infallible.

10:13 there’s many other passages that identify Jesus as the rock on which the church is built

Yes, because He’s God. I cited five of these passages in my paper about there being two “Rocks”. It doesn’t preclude an earthly leader. Jesus calls Himself the Good Shepherd. Does that mean there are no pastors (“shepherds”) because Jesus is the Ultimate One? No. The Bible doesn’t employ false dichotomies and the “either/or” approach that Protestants do. Christians were called “living stones” by Peter in 1 Peter 2:5.  Paul writes about “the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone” (Eph 2:19-20).

Thus, “apostles and prophets” being the foundation doesn’t contradict Jesus also being the foundation.  Then we come back to the question of, “who was the foremost apostle”? In terms of leadership, Peter was, because Jesus commissioned Him by name, even changing his name to symbolize this leadership, and made him the preeminent human foundation of the Church. We are “co-workers” with God (“we are God’s fellow workers”: 1 Cor 3:9; “Working together with him”: 2 Cor 6:1; “the Lord worked with them”: Mk 16:20).

Gavin mentioned that Epiphanius thought the rock was Peter’s confession (10:34), but I just showed above how he thought Peter was the rock, too (both things can be true, because they don’t exclude each other). The fathers thought in biblical and Hebraic “both/and” terms. They didn’t think like Greek rationalists.

10:42  when people go that route they almost always identify Peter as the rock because of his confession

Yes, of course they do, because that is what the passage strongly implies. Peter proclaimed that Jesus was “the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Mt 16:16). Then Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you” (Mt 16:17). Then Jesus told him, “you are Peter [“Rock”], and on this rock I will build my church” (Mt 16:18). It looks — at least prima facie — like Peter was made the rock upon whom the Church was built because he exhibited the sort of faith that the leader of the Church would necessarily have to have. Both things are true. We don’t have to choose. So if so many fathers highlighted his faith, and so many focused on Peter himself, both were right! And those who say that Jesus is the rock are also right; but that is expressed in other passages, not this one.

Moreover, we see Peter exercising his role as leader in the early Church, after Pentecost. Now that He had received the indwelling Holy Spirit, he could really fulfill his role as Jesus intended, with power and zeal: Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity, and by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15). Peter’s words are the first recorded and most important in the upper room before Pentecost (Acts 1:15-22). He takes the lead in calling for a replacement for Judas (Acts 1:22). He’s the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, so he was the first Christian to “preach the gospel” in the Church era (Acts 2:14-36). This sermon contained a fully authoritative interpretation of Scripture, a doctrinal decision and a disciplinary decree concerning members of the “House of Israel” (2:36) – an example of “binding and loosing.” He works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12). He utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) emphatically affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11).

His shadow works miracles (Acts 5:15). Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40). Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6). Peter is the first to receive the Gentiles, after a revelation from God (Acts 10:9-48). He is the object of the first divine interposition on behalf of an individual in the Church Age (an angel delivers him from prison – Acts 12:1-17). The whole Church (strongly implied) offers “earnest prayer” for Peter when he is imprisoned (Acts 12:5). He’s the first to recognize and refute heresy, in Simon Magus (Acts 8:14-24). Peter is the first to preach Christian repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38). He takes the lead in the first recorded mass baptism (Acts 2:41). He commanded the first Gentile Christians to be baptized (Acts 10:44-48). He was the first traveling missionary, and first exercised what would now be called “visitation of the churches” (Acts 9:32-38, 43).

If all of that doesn’t indicate that he was the leader, what in the world would prove it, pray tell? The Catholic view harmonizes perfectly with the biblical data. The Bible clearly presents him as both the leader of the disciples and of the early Church. St. Paul’s the foremost evangelist and theologian. But he’s not leading the entire Church (in terms of an office) as Peter did. Jesus didn’t say He would build His Church upon Paul. Rather, God said, “he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel” (Acts 9:15). Peter is called the foundation of the Church and told to feed Jesus’ sheep. And Jesus prayed for him specifically, that his faith wouldn’t fail. And he gave him (only) the “keys of the kingdom of heaven.” It goes on and on.

13:44 the other passages that are generally brought into discussion — John 21 and Luke 22 for example — these passages just aren’t clear or explicit, and I’ve looked at the fathers on these as well and none of them are correlating these texts with peter’s rank or status within the church or something like that. Pretty consistently they’re looking at these passages as having to do with Peter’s restoration after his
14:11 It would be a it would be a proof of the papacy perhaps if Jesus said to Peter in John 21, “feed my sheep as my vicar” or if he said in Luke

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,500+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-five books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. Here’s also a second page to get to PayPal. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing (including Zelle), see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

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Photo credit: St. Peter, by Paolo Emilio Besenzi (1608-1656) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

Summary: I reply to Baptist apologist Gavin Ortlund’s arguments against the papacy: his analyses of Matthew 16 and John 21. I note the cumulative NT evidence for the papacy.

March 9, 2024

Incl.  “Papal” & Patristic Exegesis of Matthew 16 and John 21; Relationship of the Bible & the Church

Pastor Mike Winger is the featured teacher of BibleThinker online ministry. He graduated from the School of Ministry at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and was ordained in 2006. He has since served in various ministries with a primary focus on being a youth pastor. Mike has since transitioned into laboring full time with BibleThinker to provide free teaching content worldwide. He also has a thriving YouTube channel called Learn to Think Biblically (688K subscribers). Mike is strongly committed to a careful and thoughtful study of the Bible with a view toward answering skeptics’ challenges with reason and Scripture. I use RSV for Bible verses. Mike’s words will be in blue.

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I’m responding to Mike’s video entitled, “Why Catholicism is WRONG” (8-24-15). It has received 316,481 views, as of 3-8-24.

1:06 if their claim’s accurate, then I can’t interpret the Bible only they can

In fact, the Catholic Church has required one particular view of a Bible passages for only nine passages in the entire Bible. This is an annoying myth that we hear all the time. Indeed, the orthodox, faithful Catholic interpret doctrines that he derives from Scripture with the help and guidance of the Church and sacred tradition, but so what? Every Protestant does the same thing within their own denominational tradition. No five-point Calvinist, for example, can find a verse in the Bible which proves apostasy or falling away, or one that teaches God’s desire for universal, rather than limited atonement (and there are many such passages). He can’t deny total depravity in any text, or irresistible grace. We all have orthodox and dogmatic boundaries that we abide by. No Christian of any stripe could say that John 1:1 does not teach the deity and Godhood of Jesus.

1:13 the Bible is extra it is not essential

This is sheer nonsense. The Catholic Church reveres the Bible as much as any Protestant denomination or individual. I remember reading The Battle for the Bible (1977) by Protestant scholar Harold Lindsell, back in the day (the early 80s) when I was a fervent evangelical, and his making the point that the Catholic Church had a doctrine of the inspiration and infallibility of Scripture — including after Vatican II, which changed no doctrines — that was as “high” as any Protestant view (it really struck me at the time, and I was delighted to learn of it). Catholics also think that sacred, apostolic tradition and the Church are infallible authorities, and we do because the Bible itself teaches this: notably in Acts 15 (the Jerusalem Council) and in 1 Timothy 3:15: both of which — closely examined — teach the infallible authority of the Church (which is directly contrary to sola Scriptura). This is not sola ecclesia, as it has been caricatured (by Mike and many others). It’s a three-legged-stool rule of faith: Bible-Church-Tradition: all of which are in complete harmony with each other.

1:19 Church statements are what’s essential 

They are, but not exclusively so, as he makes out, and in a manner that is hardly different from each Protestant denomination, that has creeds and confessions that they adhere to, just as we have our doctrines that we believe. Lutherans have the Book of Concord. Presbyterians have the Westminster Confession. Anglicans have the 39 Articles, etc. No one can claim that they aren’t “essential” too in their own domains.

1:19 when the Catholic theologian uses the Bible to try to prove Catholic doctrine it’s just an exercise. It’s not that they think they have to [do]. They don’t believe they have to use the Bible; they’re just doing that to try to convince you to try to convince others

This is pure mythology. How would he even go about proving such a ludicrous claim? You notice that he doesn’t cite anything to corroborate his charge. It simply comes from his own cynical anti-Catholic bias. No Catholic decree or argument from a Catholic theologian or apologist has ever stated that the Bible is unimportant or merely optional in doing theology. To the contrary, official Catholic documents like Vatican II, the Catholic Catechism, or papal encyclicals are literally filled with Scripture (at least as much if not more than the typical Protestant sermon). It’s clear from the sheer volume that Scripture is central in the whole enterprise.

2:37 the Roman Catholic Church bases their case . . .  for their authority [on] that single pillar that holds up all the doctrine of the church: “we declare it, therefore it’s true.”

First of all, we don’t say something is true simply because the Church declares it (which would be circular reasoning). What we actually say is that the Church declares it because it is based on the Bible and the history of doctrine and reason. Secondly, if there is any single “pillar” it’s the Bible; particularly this verse: “. . . the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15). If the Catholic Church is indeed that, again, it’s not because it merely makes the claim, but because the Bible said so, and we have many other biblical and historical reasons for identifying the Catholic Church as the one true Church of the Bible, that Jesus set up, with Peter as the first earthly leader.

2:59 Matthew 16 . . . whatever it does teach it certainly does not teach that Peter was the first pope 

Matthew 16:16-19 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” [17] And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

At the very least he was clearly intended to be the leader of the new Church, of which he was even said to be the foundation (“Rock”). R. T. France, widely considered to be one of the best New Testament exegetes, stated: “Not only is Peter to have a leading role, but this role involves a daunting degree of authority . . . The image of ‘keys’ (plural) perhaps suggests . . . the steward, who regulates its [the house’s] administration . . . an authority derived from a ‘delegation’ of God’s sovereignty” (Vol. 1: Matthew, in Leon Morris, General Editor., Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press/Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1985, 256). That sounds pretty “papal,” doesn’t it? Yet it’s a commentary from a Protestant on the New Testament text (words of Jesus). Here are what other Protestants say, along similar lines:

Craig S. Keener wrote: “The image of keys (plural) perhaps suggests not so much the porter, who controls admission to the house, as the steward, who regulates its administration / probably refers primarily to a legislative authority in the church” (The IVP Bible Background Commentary New Testament [Downer’s Grove, Illinois: Intervarsity Press, 1993], 256, 90). The great scholar F. F. Bruce stated that “in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward” (The Hard Sayings of Jesus [Downers Grove, Illinois: Intervarsity, 1983], 143-144). T. W. Manson, in his book, The sayings of Jesus: as recorded in the Gospels according to St. Matthew and St. Luke (London: SCM Press, 1954 ed., p. 205 ) stated that Peter was — as shown by by Jesus’ words — “God’s vicegerent” who would “declare what is right and wrong for the Christian community” and whose decisions would be “confirmed by God”.

3:31  in fact 80% of the time the Church Fathers disagree with the Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16

First of all, the fathers aren’t the ultimate authorities in exegesis, and if some of them got this wrong (from our Catholic perspective) it is no problem for our system at all. Biblical exegesis is an independent field of study and can be done today, regardless of what was believed about specific passages in the past. The above arguments from Protestant exegetes stand on their own. I have made the case from the Bible because both sides accept it as inspired, infallible revelation. Precisely because it is inspired, neither side can dismiss it. It has to be grappled with. The above is what some of the very best Protestant exegetes have stated about Matthew 16 and what it means (in a nutshell, Peter was given extraordinary authority by Jesus). Mike just whips up a negative bald sentence; I provided significant and solid Protestant scholarship. It’s a huge difference in methodology.

There were, in fact, many Church fathers (far more than 20%) who thought Peter was the rock, the foundation of the Church and its leader, based on Matthew 16. Here are 18 of them:

Tertullian, writing around 200-220, stated that “Peter . . . is called the Rock whereon the Church was to be built” (Prescription against Heretics, 22).

St. Hippolytus wrote around 225: “By this Spirit Peter spoke that blessed word, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. By this Spirit the rock of the Church was established” (The Discourse on the Holy Theophany, 9).

Origen writing around 230-250, called Peter “that great foundation of the Church, and most solid rock, upon which Christ founded the Church” (In Exod. Hom. v. n. 4, tom. ii) and “Upon him (Peter)  . . . the Church was founded” (In Epist. ad Rom. lib. v. c. 10, tom. iv) and “Peter upon whom is built Christ’s Church” (T. iv. In Joan. Tom. v.).

St. Cyprian, c. 246, wrote about “Peter, upon whom by the same Lord the Church had been built” (Epistle 54 to Cornelius, 7).

Firmilian, c. 254, wrote about “one Church, which was once first established by Christ on a Rock” (Inter Ep. S. Cyp. Ep. lxxv).

Aphraates (c. 336) stated that “the Lord . . . set him up as the foundation, called him the rock and structure of the Church” (Homily 7:15, De Paenitentibus).

St. Ephraem (c. 350-370) called Peter “the foundation of the holy Church” (Homilies 4:1).

St. Hilary of Poitiers in 360 held that Peter was “the foundation-stone of the Church” (On the Trinity, Bk. VI, 20).

St. Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 363), commenting on Matthew 16, calls peter “the foremost of the apostles and chief herald of the Church” (Catechetical Lecture 11, 3).

St. Optatus (c. 370), commenting on the same passage, wrote that Peter was “to be preferred before all the Apostles” and was “The Head of the Apostles” (De Schism. Don. l. vii. n. 3).

St. Gregory of Nazianzen (370) stated that Peter “is entrusted with the Foundations of the Church” (T. i. or. xxxii. n. 18).

St. Gregory of Nyssa (371) wrote that Peter was “the Head of the Apostles . . . (upon him) is the Church of God firmly established. . . . that unbroken and most firm Rock upon which the Lord built His Church” (Alt. Or. De S. Steph.).

St. Basil the Great (371) stated that Peter “received on himself the building of the Church” (Adversus Eunomius 2:4).

St. Epiphanius (c. 385): “upon which (Rock) the Church is in every way built . . . Foundation of the house of God” (Adv. Haeres.).

St. Ambrose (c. 385-389): “whom when He styles a Rock, He pointed out the Foundation of the Church” (T. ii. l. iv. De Fide, c. v. n. 56).

St. John Chrysostom (c. 387): “Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church . . . that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, the First of the disciples” (T. ii. Hom. iii. de Paenit. n. 4).

St. Jerome (385): “Peter, upon whom the Lord has founded the Church” (Letters 41, 2).

St. Cyril of Alexandria (424): “the church . . . over this he sets Peter as shepherd” (Comm. on Matt., ad. loc.).

Mike then brings up John 21, where Jesus tells Peter to “feed my sheep,” etc., and then he claims:

5:31 whatever Jesus is doing here, this says nothing about a papacy . . . if you didn’t know about the papacy, you’d never read the Bible and come up with that doctrine; it just would never happen. It would never occur to you. It’s completely artificially foisted upon the Scriptures; pushed onto the Bible. We need clear teachings, not vague implications.

It is clear teaching; I completely disagree. In the context of many Bible passages already indicating a profound leadership of Peter among the disciples and in the early Church (I found fifty such), it’s significant that Jesus uses an agricultural shepherd and sheep parallel, which is a metaphor for being a pastor. The word “shepherd” is used 15 times in the NT in this fashion. So what does Jesus do here? He was with seven of the disciples (Jn 21:2) in a post-Resurrection appearance.

But He singled out Peter and charged him to “feed my lambs” (21:15) and “tend my sheep” (21:16) and “feed my sheep” (21:17), which could quite plausibly be taken to mean His entire Church, since He uses the words “the sheep” or “sheep” 14 times in John 10: meaning, believers in the Church. There He was talking about Himself as the Ultimate Shepherd. But there are also earthly shepherds (pastors or priests or bishops). Jesus didn’t say this to all seven disciples present. He said it to Peter only. That must have some significance. It fits into the scenario of him being the leader of the Church.

After all, Jesus had already said (Mt 16) that He would build His Church upon Peter, as the Rock. This exhortation perfectly fits in with that. It’s the same sort of thing in Luke 22:32, where Jesus says, “I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail” and “strengthen your brethren” to Peter alone. I believe it’s the only time Jesus is said to have prayed for one person, who is named. And guess who it is? Just a “coincidence”: it’s once again Peter.

Many Protestant commentators say that Peter was singled out and asked three times because he denied Jesus three times. That may very well be true, but if so, it doesn’t follow that my interpretation is null and void. He still encouraged him to be a pastor of what is arguably the entire Church; and it goes along with Luke 22:32 and Matthew 16:18-19. Moreover, the parallel to the denials would be when Jesus asked him three times, “do you love Me?” But the other parts are not parallels to the denials. Thus, this attempted dismissal of the larger “papal” meaning of the passage fails in its evasive purpose.

Mike makes a bald analysis and a skeptical claim with no reasoning whatever. I reason through it, do exegesis, including cross-referencing, and make an actual argument. Which is the more impressive method of the two?

6:02 Jesus here is putting Peter in a shepherding position, yes absolutely, but does . . . feeding the sheep and tending the lambs make him like the ultimate apostle who’s in charge of all the other apostles?
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The Bible massively indicates that he was the leader of the disciples and of the early Church. Protestants don’t even deny that. It’s too obvious. Here he is shown to be that again by being singled out. All of them would be shepherds but Jesus talks to Peter alone. It makes perfect sense. If He built His Church upon Peter, then Peter would certainly be charged with feeding the “sheep” en masse.
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6:15 in fact Acts 20:28 it talks about all of the elders in Ephesus and all of them are told that they’re to shepherd the Church of God
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Mike answers himself here. This was strictly a local context: elders in Ephesus (Acts 20:17) caring for that flock. The phrase, “church of God” can refer to only a local church (see, e.g., 1 Cor 1:2; 2 Cor 1:1). Peter didn’t have a specific flock when Jesus told Him to feed His sheep. So it seems to be a universal shepherding, which also is what we see in the nature of his first epistle, which is to a large group (“To the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia”: 1:1), not one local church, as with Paul’s letters. I wrote in August 2022 about this:

Pontus was in the north of Turkey and largely surrounding the Black Sea north of it. Galatia was in the center of Asia Minor (Turkey),  Cappadocia in its southeast, and Bithynia in its northwest. “Asia” in the NT refers to Asia Minor.

So Peter was writing to Christians in a vast area. The size of Turkey is about a thousand miles from west to east, and 300-400 miles from north to south. This is the area, and also east and north of the Black Sea, that was the recipient of Peter’s first epistle. The letter is filled with decidedly “papal” commands: and Peter assumes sublime authority throughout his epistle:

“gird up your minds” (1:13 [RSV]); “be holy yourselves in all your conduct” (1:15); “love one another earnestly from the heart” (1:22); “So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander” (2:1); “long for the pure spiritual milk” (2:2); “abstain from the passions of the flesh” (2:11); “Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles” (2:12); “Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution” (2:13); “Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.” (2:17); ” wives, be submissive to your husbands” (3:1); “Likewise you husbands, live considerately with your wives, bestowing honor on the woman” (3:7); “have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.” (3:8); “Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling” (3:9); “in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense” (3:15: apologetics!); ” keep your conscience clear” (3:16); “keep sane and sober for your prayers” (4:7); “hold unfailing your love for one another” (4:8); “Practice hospitality ungrudgingly to one another” (4:9); “As each has received a gift, employ it for one another” (4:10); “Tend the flock of God that is your charge” (5:2: addressed specifically to other bishops); “you that are younger be subject to the elders” (5:5); “Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God” (5:6); “Be sober, be watchful” (5:8); and “Resist him, firm in your faith” (5:9).

This is altogether the scope and nature of a bishop’s teaching, with authority, and to Christians over an area a thousand miles wide and 400 miles from bottom to top. That’s not “local church” stuff!

8:57  the earliest interpretation where someone says that this is papal in John 21 is from 680 AD, over 600 years later. Then someone finally has the idea that this is papal and who is it? Pope Agatho; a very self-serving claim  for his own power to increase by tying it to this scripture.

Nice try. Here his claim is much more broad: no Church father at all thought the passage was “papal”; that is, indicative of Peter being the leader of the early Church, and we have to get all the way to 680 AD to find anyone who thinks this way. One wonders if Mike did any research on the matter. It’s likely that he simply read this in an old anti-Catholic book (filled with the usual history-challenged myths) and passed it along. All I have to do is find one Church father to refute this sweeping claim, but I have found nine:

Origen (c. 216): “the Chief Authority as regards the feeding of the sheep was delivered to Peter” (T. iv. l. 5, in Ep. ad Rom. n. 1).

St. Cyprian (c. 246): “to the same [Peter] He says, after His resurrection, Feed my sheep. And although to all the apostles, after His resurrection, He gives an equal power, . . . yet, that He might set forth unity, He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity, as beginning from one.” (Treatise 1: On the Unity of the Church, 4).

St. Ephraem (c. 350-370): “The Lord . . . delivered his flock to Simon . . . Three pledges he took from him as shepherd, that with love he should shepherd his lambs, and should visit his sheep with mercy, and should guard his ewes with fear.” (HVirg. 36, 6; CSCO 223, Syr. 94).

Ambrosiaster (c. 380-384): “After the Saviour all were included in Peter; for He constituted him to be their head, that he might be the shepherd of the Lord’s flock” (Quaest. 75, ex N. Test. in App. St. August. tom. iii. 2894).

St. Ambrose (385): Therefore did Christ also commit to Peter to feed His flock” (Ib. in. Ps. cxviii. [Mem] n. 3).

St. Epiphanius (c. 385): “He heard from the same God, ‘Peter, feed My lambs;’ to him was intrusted the flock; he leads the way admirably in the power of his own Master.” (Tom. ii. In Anchorat. n. 9).

St. John Chrysostom (c. 387): “He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren . . . [and] says, ‘If Thou lovest Me, preside over the brethren’ . . . He sets the presidency over his own sheep . . . He appointed this man (Peter) teacher . . . of the world.” (In Joan. Hom. lxxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii.).

“What advantage, pray, could be greater than to be seen doing those things which Christ with his own lips declared to be proofs of love to Himself? For addressing the leader of the apostles He said, Peter, do you love me? and when he confessed that he did, the Lord added, if you love me tend my sheep. The Master asked the disciple if He was loved by him, not in order to get information (how should He who penetrates the hearts of all men?), but in order to teach us how great an interest He takes in the superintendence of these sheep. This being plain, it will likewise be manifest that a great and unspeakable reward will be reserved for him whose labors are concerned with these sheep, upon which Christ places such a high value. . . . For what purpose did He shed His blood? It was that He might win these sheep which He entrusted to Peter and his successors. . . . Will you, then, still contend that you were not rightly deceived, when you are about to superintend the things which belong to God, and are doing that which when Peter did the Lord said he should be able to surpass the rest of the apostles, for His words were, Peter, do you love me more than these? . . . one is required to preside over the Church, and to be entrusted with the care of so many souls . . .” (On the Priesthood, Book II, 1-2)

St. Augustine (c. 400): “. . . the Lord commended his sheep to Peter himself to feed . . . when Christ speaks to one, unity is commended — and to Peter for the first time, because Peter is first among the apostles.” (Sermo. 295).

“[T]here are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.” (Against the Fundamental Epistle of Manichaeus, ch. 4, 5).

“The Lord, indeed, had told His disciples to carry a sword; but He did not tell them to use it. But that after this sin Peter should become a pastor of the Church was no more improper than that Moses, after smiting the Egyptian, should become the leader of the congregation.” (Contra Faustum, Book XXII, 70).

“And again the Lord asked this question, and a third time He asked it. And when he asserted in reply his love, He commended to him the flock. For each several time the Lord Jesus said to Peter, as he said, I love you; Feed My lambs, feed My little sheep. In this one Peter was figured the unity of all pastors . . .” (Sermon 97 on the New Testament, 2).

“Peter generally stands for a figure of the Church.” (Sermon 25 on the New Testament, 10; cf. Sermon 96; Sermon 88, 4).

“For He says to Peter, in whom singly He forms the Church; Peter, do you love Me? He answered, Lord, I do love You. Feed My sheep. ” (Sermon 87 on the New Testament, 3).

St. Peter Chrysologus (432): “He commends His sheep to be fed by Peter, in His stead” (Serm. vi. In Ps. xcix).

Mike continues his comments on this passage from John 21:

9:45 Peter did not claim to be the Pope. He’s not treated as the Pope. He didn’t wield the power of the papacy. If Peter wasn’t the Pope, how can his successor be the Pope? If Peter’s not the Pope, nobody is; there is no Pope!

Well, we need only look at the above patristic passages regarding Jesus telling Peter to feed His sheep. How is Peter described?:

Chief Authority; head; shepherd of the Lord’s flock; presidency over the brethren; teacher . . . of the world; leader of the apostles; superintendence of these sheep; sheep which He entrusted to Peter and his successors; surpass the rest of the apostles; one is required to preside over the Church; entrusted with the care of so many souls; first among the apostles; charge to feed His sheep down to the present episcopate; pastor of the Church; the leader [like Moses] of the congregation; In this one Peter was figured the unity of all pastors; Peter generally stands for a figure of the Church; Peter, in whom singly He forms the Church; His sheep to be fed by Peter, in His stead.

If all of these descriptions aren’t “papal” what in the world is? How much evidence does one need, pray tell? How many more ways are necessary to describe what is clearly leadership of the entire Church? Nothing else is required. This is what many eminent Church fathers believed about John 21. Yet Mike claimed that no one thought this way until 680 AD. All these men were a bunch of ignorant, spiritually vacant dopes, I guess: to see all of this in a passage that Mike thinks is wholly insignificant in terms of Church government and the papacy. Make your choice, folks: Mike, or the Bible’s clear teaching and Church fathers like Cyprian, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, and Augustine. And then we can add the descriptions of Peter in the fathers, in interpreting Matthew 16:

the Rock whereon the Church was to be built; the rock of the Church; that great foundation of the Church; solid rock, upon which Christ founded the Church; Peter upon whom is built Christ’s Church; upon whom by the same Lord the Church had been built; Church . . . established by Christ on a Rock; the foundation; the rock and structure of the Church; the foundation of the holy Church; the foundation-stone of the Church; the foremost of the apostles; chief herald of the Church; preferred before all the Apostles; Head of the Apostles; entrusted with the Foundations of the Church; Rock upon which the Lord built His Church; received on himself the building of the Church; upon which (Rock) the Church is in every way built; Foundation of the house of God; the Foundation of the Church; Head or Crown of the Apostles; the First in the Church; that firm Foundation; the Great Apostle;, the First of the disciples; Peter, upon whom the Lord has founded the Church; the church . . . over this he sets Peter as shepherd.

That’s an awful lot of material to ignore, in order to pretend that St. Peter wasn’t the leader of the earliest Church; the first pope, if you will.

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Summary: Protestant apologist Mike Winger says that Matthew 16 & John 21 give no indication of the papacy whatsoever. I exegete them & cite Church fathers’ interpretation.

March 5, 2024

Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Executive Director of the popular Just & Sinner YouTube channel, and the President of the American Lutheran Theological Seminary (which holds to a doctrinally traditional Lutheranism, similar to the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod). He has authored several books, as well as theological articles in a variety of publications. All my Bible citations are from RSV, unless otherwise indicated. Jordan’s words will be in blue.

This is my 8th reply to Jordan (many more to come, because I want to interact with the best, most informed Protestant opponents). All of these respectful critiques can be found in the “Replies to Lutheran Theologian / Apologist Jordan Cooper” section on the top of my Lutheranism web page.

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This is a response to the end portion of Jordan’s YouTube video, Sola Scriptura: Scripture Alone (The Five Solas) (2-24-24).

For the definition of sola Scriptura, see my paper, Sola Scriptura as Defined by Historic Protestantism [12-15-21]. Remarkably (but honestly and correctly), Jordan Cooper stated in his video, “A Defense of Sola Scriptura (3-12-19):

I think the question that we have is: do we have to find a particular Scripture that says Scripture is the only authority? And I just don’t think we have to. We don’t. There’s nothing in — you can’t find — in any of Paul’s letters, for example, . . . “by the way, Scripture is the only authority and traditions are not an authority and there is no magisterium that is given some kind of infallible authority to pass on infallible teachings.” It seems like a lot of Roman Catholic apologists think that for Protestants to defend their position, that they have to find a text that says that.” [1:39-2:14]

Yes they do, in the nature of things. I dismantled this “argument” in 2004: Sola Scriptura is Self-Defeating and False if Not in the Bible (vs. Kevin Johnson) [5-4-04].

38:39 Scripture is . . . our sole infallible authority.

Scripture itself refutes this — particularly in the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 and 1 Timothy 3:15 — as I have detailed many times. See my Bible & Tradition web page: section “III. Sola Scriptura (Scripture as the Only Infallible Authority).”

38:47 it’s our sole God-breathed authority. There is nothing that has the kind of authority that Scripture has.

We all agree that it’s “God-breathed” (i.e., inspired) and in many respects quite unique. The specific dispute with regard to sola Scriptura, however, is whether it is the only infallible authority. It’s not. Sola Scriptura can’t be true (at least in its standard definition) according to the Bible itself. I’ve also made an extended argument that there are even inspired utterances, prophecies, and teachings besides Scripture: Reply To Gavin Ortlund’s 6-Minute Sola Scriptura Defense (Including the Biblical Case for Prophets as Inspired and Infallible Authorities Besides Holy Scripture) [1-26-24].

40:59 2 Timothy 3:16: it [Scripture] is breathed out by God or God-breathed. It is inspired by the Spirit.

So was the prophet Agabus, who “stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world; and this took place in the days of Claudius” (Acts 11:27-28; cf. 21:10-11, where he predicts Paul’s captivity, prefacing his words with “Thus says the Holy Spirit, . . .”). That’s breathed by the Holy Spirit, too. Paul wrote that “the mystery of Christ, . . . has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit” (Eph 3:4-5). Peter wrote that true prophecies were inspired: “no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Pet 1:21).

The first Christian council in Jerusalem was inspired, since the Holy Spirit agreed with it (Acts 15:28). The first pope, Peter, even made an infallible declaration in the council (Acts 15:7-11) that was crucial in its determination. This in turn was largely based on a “vision” (Acts 10:17) that God gave to Peter (Acts 10:11-16), while he was in a “trance” (Acts 10:10). God showed him the meaning of it by sending to him the Gentile centurion, Cornelius (Acts 10:25 ff.), to whom He had communicated by an angel (10:22, 30-32). The larger point is that so much of this had nothing directly to do with Scripture at all. Yet it was infallible (and arguably inspired as well).

Moreover, when Jesus was talking to His disciples about future persecution, He said, “do not be anxious how or what you are to answer or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say” (Lk 12:11-12). Mark in his parallel passage puts it even more strongly: “it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit” (Mk 13:11). Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist “was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied” (Lk 1:67). Simeon also had a close relationship with the Holy Spirit (Lk 2:25-26).

Now, if the Holy Spirit can talk to Jesus’ disciples in that way (and by extension possibly to any follower of Christ), or literally talk through them, is that “divine speech” or “the words of God”? Since the Holy Spirit is God, the answer must be yes. But again, that’s not Scripture. Paul also refers to two spiritual gifts that seem to involve direct communication from God to human beings: “To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit” (1 Cor 12:7-8). Here again God the Holy Spirit is communicating to persons. It seems to me that all words that authentically come from God must be considered to be inspired, as all of God’s words are.

Jordan himself admits this at 44:48: “we recognize in the Old Testament, God sent prophets, and when the prophet Isaiah spoke he spoke the word of God. The people of Israel didn’t have to stop and say “we’re going to wait till he writes it down . . .”.  I would only add that the office of prophet is present in the New Testament and new covenant as well.

I made an analogical argument from Ephesians 4:11-15 (see the passage) in my first book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism (pp. 15-16), in response to the alleged sola Scriptura prooftext, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Here is the heart of that argument:

Note that in Ephesians 4:11-15 the Christian believer is “equipped,” “built up,” brought into “unity and mature manhood,” “knowledge” of Jesus, “the fulness of Christ,” and even preserved from doctrinal confusion by means of the teaching function of the Church. This is a far stronger statement of the “perfecting” of the saints than 2 Timothy 3:16-17, yet it doesn’t even mention Scripture.

Therefore, the Protestant interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 proves too much, since if all nonscriptural elements are excluded in 2 Timothy, then, by analogy, Scripture would logically have to be excluded in Ephesians. It is far more reasonable to synthesize the two passages in an inclusive, complementary fashion, by recognizing that the mere absence of one or more elements in one passage does not mean that they are nonexistent. Thus, the Church and Scripture are both equally necessary and important for teaching. This is precisely the Catholic view. Neither passage is intended in an exclusive sense.

To expand the original argument regarding Ephesians 4 a bit: Protestants are saying that Scripture is the rule of faith. It is the sole and ultimate criterion for theological doctrine and truth, insofar as it is regarded as the only infallible authority. Therefore, it stands to reason that in a passage talking about truth over and over again, and denouncing falsehood, and referring to “one faith” and “the unity of faith”, that Scripture would likely be mentioned (under the erroneous Protestant premise). It’s not absolutely necessary, but it would be probable, I think.

This would be a logical place for Paul to reiterate that the Scripture is the rule of faith. But he never does that. He refers repeatedly to truth and denounces falsehood, and refers to the Church over and over: “one body”; [listing of Church offices]; “body of Christ”; “the whole body”; “bodily growth”; “members of one another”.

Now, under Catholic assumptions of the “three-legged stool” (Church, Scripture, Tradition), this is perfectly plausible and would be predictable. Not all have to be mentioned in the same context. Any one of them can be (or all of them, or any combination thereof), because they are all authoritative.

41:12  Jesus says Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). Those kinds of things are not true of anything else outside of the text of Scripture.

I just demonstrated how those things are false. Every true prophecy or vision or direct communication of God to men (of which there are many examples in Scripture) can’t be “broken” either, because they involve the words of God the Holy Spirit.

41:30 Now what does Scripture then say about tradition and the Church? Well, Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:15 that the church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” and some Roman Catholics will quote that and say, “there you go: the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, therefore sola Scriptura is wrong.”

Indeed it is, once one seriously considers what is expressed in 1 Timothy 3:15. The Church can’t possibly be the “pillar and ground of the truth” without at the same time being infallible. And if it can be and is infallible, then sola Scriptura — which denies this characteristic to anything but the Bible — collapses in a heap, from this one Bible passage alone (see how I fully unpack the meaning of the passage).

42:41 It is the foundation of the truth because it is the place where Scripture is taught and preserved . . . 

He just got through noting that the passage doesn’t talk specifically about the bishops of Rome (which is true, but irrelevant to the Catholic argument from this verse, which only depends on “the Church” — whatever it is — being referred to). Having done that, he turns around and makes this claim, which is nowhere in the text, either. It’s simply superimposed. “Scripture” is never mentioned in chapter 3 of 1st Timothy. It’s mentioned twice in the entire letter (4:13; 5:18), but neither instance has the slightest relation to what Jordan is claiming. “Word of God” appears once in 4:5, but again, not in any sense related to the hopeful claim. The Bible actually teaches that the Church is the foundation of the truth and includes a thing like the Jerusalem Council, which shows the Church actually displaying and exercising this God-given authority.

I wrote a paper once that was about what I thought was a very interesting topic: St. Paul’s Word Selection vs. Sola Scriptura [4-3-10]. One can read the details there of how I did my tabulations, but several interesting facts emerged from it:

The words “Scripture” or “Scriptures” appear 51 times in the New Testament. Yet in eight of his thirteen epistles (2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, Titus, Philemon) St. Paul (it may be surprising to learn) never uses either of these words. He uses it only 14 times altogether: in Romans (6), 1 Corinthians (2), Galatians (3), 1 Timothy (2), and 2 Timothy (1).

Likewise, “word of God” appears 43 times in the New Testament, and many of these (as in Old Testament prophetic utterances) are intended in the sense of “oral proclamation” rather than “Scripture” (especially apart from the Gospels). St. Paul uses the phrase only ten times, in nine different epistles. And it is by no means certain that any individual instance refers without question specifically to Holy Scripture, rather than to oral proclamation of apostolic tradition. I suspect that it is much more likely the latter sense in most or all cases.

In surveying Paul’s thought-world, then, as indicated by his choices of words and notions, in his teaching of the gospel and the content of the Christian faith in his epistles, we arrive at the following tally:

“Scripture(s)”: 14 + 84 citations of OT = 98

“Church” (20) and “Body (of Christ)” (19) = 39

“Tradition” and equivalent terms and concepts: 73

We can see that the tradition and Church legs of the “three-legged stool” are indeed prominent and together make up 53% of the 210 total instances, whereas Scripture appears 47% of the time (112-98). Moreover, I have not included obvious aspects of Church authority such as bishops and elders; the Jerusalem Council, etc. That would add even more non-scriptural authority to the mix.

In eight of the twelve epistles above, the combination Church/Tradition appears more than Scripture. In six of these eight, the “tradition” category alone outnumbers Scripture; two by very wide margins (2 Timothy: 14-1; 1 Timothy: 13-2).

In Ephesians, the Church/Tradition ratio to Scripture is 18-6; other books are similar: Philippians (4-1), Colossians (12-0), 1 Thessalonians (5-0), 2 Thessalonians (3-0), Titus (4-0). Would any sola Scriptura advocate have predicted such an outcome before studying these words? Not likely . . .

Citation of the OT is just as consistent with the Catholic “three-legged stool” rule of faith as it is with sola Scriptura, and doesn’t prove the latter at all. All his frequent citations prove is that he wanted to make an elaborate case drawing from old covenant precedent.

I conclude, then, that it is implausible for sola Scriptura to be considered the Pauline rule of faith. The biblical facts just don’t add up.

42:53 Now also Scripture does talk about traditions (2 Thessalonians 3:6; 1 Corinthians 11:2): that there are traditions, that the apostles tell people to “uphold the traditions that I have handed on to you.” Does this mean that there is some kind of infallible authority within Church tradition?
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Yes. The New Testament massively refers to tradition. St. Paul constantly refers to the apostolic deposit of faith or tradition in many ways, that are all synonymous or nearly so: tradition, word of God, the faith, the truth, the commandment, the doctrine, teaching, the message, and (to a lesser extent because it’s more specific) the gospel: all “received” and “delivered” by him. In doing so, he obviously has in mind a concrete body of teachings that he taught the churches that he established. It’s not just one thing. If that were the case, he would have specified it. But he doesn’t do so in almost all cases of his use of the words above.
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Thayer’s Greek Lexicon (Strong’s Greek word #3862) states that (παράδοσιν – parádosis – tradition) means “a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing what is delivered . . . instruction . . . the substance of the teaching” in 2 Thessalonians 3:6, whereas he thinks it refers to “particular injunctions of Paul’s instruction” in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15. He holds that the word can refer to “precepts received from the fathers, whether handed down in the O. T. books or orally” (Gal 1:14: “the traditions of my fathers”): with some restricting or including the reference in that passage to “extra-biblical traditions”.

In the Greek Septuagint (LXX) it’s used for “the law [of God]”: Ezra 7:26. Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (one-volume edition, p. 168, also, like Thayer, not a Catholic work, affirms that it refers to “written as well as unwritten traditions” in Galatians 1:14, and is equated with “Christian teaching” (1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15); also deducing from 1 Corinthians 15:3 ff. and 11:23 ff., “that it is older than Paul and is already acquiring a fixed form in his day.” Any way we look at it, there is plenty of tradition in the sense that Catholics refer to it (including oral) in the New Testament. Because “tradition” is presented as synonymous with “truth” and the “gospel” and “the faith” etc. it, too, must be as infallible as they are. The truth itself is always infallible. If it weren’t, it wouldn’t be the truth.

Jordan then quibbles about apostolic succession and ecclesiastical primacy. But that won’t help him one whit to establish and defend sola Scriptura. It’s simply another rabbit trail and non sequitur.

45:34 Is it that Scripture is where we find the apostolic tradition today . . .?

It’s not the only place, but it’s certainly a major place where we can find both the 1) concept of tradition, and 2) examples of same. The inclusion of an infallible tradition and Church in the Bible itself is what precisely and most undeniably refutes sola Scriptura, because Protestants can’t deny the inspiration of Scripture when it makes such statements. Acts 15:28 and 1 Timothy 3:15 are themselves infallible, and they teach the infallible authority of the Church.

1:00:22  Roman Catholic apologists like to throw around this number that there are 33,000 Protestant denominations. It’s [an] absolutely ridiculous number; it’s totally inflated . . . 

Some less-educated Catholic apologists do so, and it’s most unfortunate, but not me. I objected to this number and explained exactly why, almost twenty years ago: 33,000 Protestant Denominations? No! [9-4-04].

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Photo credit: gr8effect (10-30-15) [Pixabay / Pixabay Content License]

Summary: Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper tries very hard to make sola Scriptura plausible, but there are just too many logical & scriptural holes in it (as I point out).

February 28, 2024

Includes Clement of Rome (d. c. 101) & Polycarp (d. 155) vs. Faith Alone

Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Executive Director of the popular Just & Sinner YouTube channel, and the President of the American Lutheran Theological Seminary (which holds to a doctrinally traditional Lutheranism, similar to the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod). He has authored several books, as well as theological articles in a variety of publications. All my Bible citations are from RSV, unless otherwise indicated. Jordan’s words will be in blue.

This is my 4th reply to Jordan (many more to come, because I want to interact with the best, most informed Protestant opponents). All of these respectful critiques can be found in the “Replies to Lutheran Theologian / Apologist Jordan Cooper” section on the top of my Lutheranism web page.

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This is a response to Jordan’s YouTube video, “Sola Fide in the Church Fathers” (3-27-19).

6:54 Let’s talk about the question of the unanimity of the fathers. This is important because when you read a lot of especially popular level Roman Catholic polemics or Eastern Orthodox polemics, you get this idea that there is this unanimous consensus of the fathers on all of these various doctrinal topics.

First of all, “unanimous” in this sense doesn’t mean “absolutely every” but a “strong consensus.” See my article: “Unanimous Consent” of Church Fathers: Not Literally All (Does the Phrase “Unanimous Consent of the Fathers” Allow Any Exceptions?) [4-29-08; revised on 10-22-18]. Nor is it just Catholic and Orthodox “polemics” as to faith alone. It’s also the opinion of three well-known Protestant apologists and scholars:

Whereas Augustine taught that the sinner is made righteous in justification, Melanchthon taught that he is counted as righteous or pronounced to be righteous. For Augustine, ‘justifying righteousness’ is imparted; for Melanchthon, it is imputed in the sense of being declared or pronounced to be righteous. Melanchthon drew a sharp distinction between the event of being declared righteous and the process of being made righteous, designating the former ‘justification’ and the latter ‘sanctification’ or ‘regeneration.’ For Augustine, these were simply different aspects of the same thing . . .

The importance of this development lies in the fact that it marks a complete break with the teaching of the church up to that point. From the time of Augustine onwards, justification had always been understood to refer to both the event of being declared righteous and the process of being made righteous. . . .

The Council of Trent . . . reaffirmed the views of Augustine on the nature of justification . . . the concept of forensic justification actually represents a development in Luther’s thought . . . . Trent maintained the medieval tradition, stretching back to Augustine, which saw justification as comprising both an event and a process . . . (Alister McGrath, Reformation Thought: An Introduction, 2nd edition, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1993, 108-109, 115; my italics)

For Augustine, justification included both the beginnings of one’s righteousness before God and its subsequent perfection — the event and the process. What later became the Reformation concept of ‘sanctification’ then is effectively subsumed under the aegis of justification. Although he believed that God initiated the salvation process, it is incorrect to say that Augustine held to the concept of ‘forensic’ justification. This understanding of justification is a later development of the Reformation . . .

Before Luther, the standard Augustinian position on justification stressed intrinsic justification. Intrinsic justification argues that the believer is made righteous by God’s grace, as compared to extrinsic justification, by which a sinner is forensically declared righteous (at best, a subterranean strain in pre-Reformation Christendom). With Luther the situation changed dramatically . . .

. . . one can be saved without believing that imputed righteousness (or forensic justification) is an essential part of the true gospel. Otherwise, few people were saved between the time of the apostle Paul and the Reformation, since scarcely anyone taught imputed righteousness (or forensic justification) during that period! . . . . . (Norman Geisler, Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences, with Ralph E. MacKenzie, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1995, 502, 85, 222; my italics)

If any one expects to find in this period [100-325], or in any of the church fathers, Augustin himself not excepted, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone, . . . he will be greatly disappointed . . . Paul’s doctrine of justification, except perhaps in Clement of Rome, who joins it with the doctrine of James, is left very much out of view, and awaits the age of the Reformation to be more thoroughly established and understood. (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 2, 588-589)

They said it, not me! My question for Jordan would be: how does he explain the sweeping nature of these comments? If they are wrong, how could they be so dramatically wrong? What is it that they are seeing in the fathers that he is not seeing? Catholics have been saying this all along. It’s nothing new to us. Glad to see that some prominent Protestants are now frankly and candidly admitting it.

8:10 we’ve always had this this issue that we haven’t looked at the fathers in terms of their actual context. We haven’t looked at the totality of their writings.

How are Geisler’s and McGrath’s and Schaff’s statements explained then? McGrath is the author of such books as Historical Theology: An Introduction to the History of Christian Thought (3rd ed., 2022), The Nature of Christian Doctrine: Its Origins, Development, and Function (2024), and (especially) Iustitia Dei: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification (1986; 4th ed., 2020) “the leading reference work on the subject.” McGrath thinks the doctrine of justification was established by the time of St. Augustine (including his own view), and didn’t change until Philip Melanchthon (not even with Luther), “as a complete break.”

One, then, might try to argue that the pre-Augustinian fathers thought differently. Geisler says this is true from the time of Paul to Luther, which takes it back almost 400 more years. How can this be if this sort of generalization is only made by Catholic “polemicists” on a mere “popular level”? Jordan noted later in this video (at 29:13) that in McGrath’s book Iustitia Dei the whole pre-Augustinian era is basically ignored . . . he kind of skips over the whole era.”

McGrath thought the medieval soteriological tradition was wrong in following Augustine, but, as Michael P. Barber noted, in the fourth edition of his book Iustitia Dei he made a significant admission:

It has become a commonplace in some quarters to suggest that the dik group of terms–particularly the verb dikaioo, “to justify”–are naturally translated as being “treated as righteous” or “reckoned as righteous”, and that Paul’s Greek-speaking readers would have understood him in this way. This may be true at the purely linguistic level; however, the Greek Christian preoccupation with the strongly transformative soteriological metaphor of deification appears to have led to justification being treated in a factitive sense. This is not, however, to be seen as a conceptual imposition on Pauline thought, but rather a discernment of this aspect of his soteriological narrative. . . . Chrysostom’s account affirms the declaration or manifestation (endeixeis) of God’s own righteousness with its actualisation in the transformation of the nature of humanity. (pp. 36-37)

See also, “Alister McGrath’s Conversion on Justification,” Bryan Cross, Called to Communion, 5-5-20 and “Ligon Duncan’s ‘Did the Fathers Know the Gospel?’ “ (Bryan Cross, 7-17-10).

8:49  there are certainly areas where the fathers as a whole are in agreement.

And we think this topic is one of them. Jordan notes that belief in baptismal regeneration and real presence in the Eucharist are two issues where the fathers achieved a “pretty unanimous consensus” (10:59). We agree!

12:08  this is an issue where we do have differences of opinion and we have certain fathers that say certain things [and] other fathers that say other things and trying to kind of tease out what Paul is talking about in Romans and Galatians and Ephesians when he speaks about faith and when he speaks about works and justification by faith, not by works; trying to formulate and figure out how all of those things work together. The fathers do come to some different conclusions in how they understand those texts, so you’re not going to read the fathers and say, “oh look they’re all Lutheran”; you’re also not going to read the father’s and say “oh look they’re all Roman Catholics” or “oh they’re all Eastern Orthodox.”

Well, further below we will be examining some of the earliest Church fathers to see if they believed in a Lutheran / Calvinist / “Reformation”-type “faith alone” soteriology. Sneak preview: they don’t.

12:52 We have to let the fathers be the fathers. We can’t shoehorn the fathers into our own traditions, and I think this is what the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic traditions are often forced to do, because they claim to be the tradition that is consistent with the teachings of the church fathers. Often they try to kind of force this unanimity among the fathers, and I think for that reason they can’t read them consistently in terms of what those figures actually really believed. They can’t read them without bias toward a belief that they already are coming to those texts — which is, “those fathers believed all the same things that we do today.”

Of course (I think it’s obvious), bias about the views of the Church fathers is not by any stretch of the imagination confined to Orthodox and Catholics. I’ve written many times about this. For example:

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Moreover, Lutheran and Reformed Protestants try to claim that their views are closer to the fathers than ours and seek to show that there was patristic consensus on several issues that suggests their view over against ours. This very effort from Jordan is an example of Protestants doing that, just as Catholics and Orthodox do. All sides must guard against making overly selective and one-sided patristic citations, just as they need to avoid doing the same thing with scriptural references.
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21:18 is there any doctrine of justification by faith alone in the fathers? My answer is, yes we can definitely find a testimony of justification by faith alone in the church fathers. It’s not unanimous; it’s not universal but it is there.
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The examples from Polycarp and Clement of Rome that he submits do not prove his case. They support our position, as I will demonstrate below.
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24:21 they’re not debating the doctrine of justification or having these doctrinal formulations of justification. They’re not going to be as careful on that issue because that’s not what they’re talking about; that’s not what they’re thinking about. They want to define who is Jesus . . . how do we deal with this Gnostic threat . . . those things don’t get clarified really until the time of Augustine.
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Agreed.
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29:53 Augustine definitely does not see the term justification as a legal term . . . he really sees it as a making righteous instead of a declaring to be righteous legally.
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I agree again.
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30:25 Augustine does see justification as a “making righteous” [but] that doesn’t mean Augustine is totally wrong on justification. I think just in terms of all the major points of salvation by grace not by works, the fact that righteousness is a gift of God: all of these things are very clearly similar to to the doctrine of justification that you find in Luther.
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St. Augustine believed in merit and meritorious works. I have three-and-a-half pages on this in my book, The Quotable Augustine (2012). The Augsburg Confession (Article 20: Of Good Works) states:
Whoever, therefore, trusts that by works he merits grace, despises the merit and grace of Christ, and seeks a way to God without Christ, by human strength, . . . [9]
For St. Augustine, grace and merit are not antithetical to each other. Merit is “God crowning His own gifts.” But it’s ours, too, because we make it ours. I add that I have found fifty Bible passages where, in the context of the Last Judgment, works are mentioned in every case, as a crucial part of salvation, and faith only once (in conjunction with works). I don’t deny that faith is crucial, too. I am merely noting that the emphases here do not comport with the Protestant emphasis on faith over against works, as entirely prominent. Catholics believe that good works must necessarily flow from God’s grace preceding them. We merely cooperate. But the works become truly our own, too. We’re not advocating Semi-Pelagianism, yet we’re falsely accused of it in the Book of Concord. In the areas where Augustine agrees with Luther (sola gratia, etc.), so does the Catholic Church.
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39:42 there are some citations in the earliest fathers that I think do point toward an understanding of justification by faith alone; again not all of the Apostolic fathers.
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St. Polycarp was a very early Church father, and he makes it very clear that he believes in the Catholic view of justification by grace alone through faith, with the necessary addition of meritorious good works: without which faith is dead, and salvation unattainable:

But He who raised Him up from the dead will raise us up also, if we do His willand walk in His commandmentsand love what He loved, keeping ourselves from all unrighteousness, covetousness, love of money, evil speaking, false witnessnot rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing, or blow for blow, or cursing for cursing, but being mindful of what the Lord said in His teaching: Judge not, that you be not judged; forgive, and it shall be forgiven unto you; be merciful, that you may obtain mercy; with what measure you measure, it shall be measured to you again; and once more, “Blessed are the poor, and those that are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of God.” [Epistle to the Philippians, chapter 2; added verse numbers removed, but he cites five passages in this section; my italics and bolding]

This is extraordinary! Note the bolded “if.” Our resurrection (which means salvation, since only the saved will be resurrected to glory) is conditional upon doing various works. God will “raise us up” if we “do His will” (a work, especially indicated by the “do”), if we “walk in His commandments” (several works), and if we avoid nine different sins: the avoidance of which amounts to meritorious action and behavior. That’s at least eleven things that are necessary in order for us to be saved and resurrected, followed by five more things that are opportunities for meritorious actions leading (in faith and grace) to salvation.

If St. Polycarp in fact thought like a Protestant (in this regard of salvation), this section would have been much shorter. He would have written something like, “But He who raised Him up from the dead will raise us up also, if we believe in Him in faith alone.” All of the rest would have been relegated to a good and praiseworthy, yet optional sanctification: not related to salvation at all. But Polycarp makes our resurrection conditional upon doing all these good works and behaving the right (Christlike) way. It’s very Catholic and exceedingly unlike Protestantism.

Now, Jordan highlights the fact that Polycarp also wrote about justification by faith. In chapter 1 he states, “knowing that ‘by grace you are saved, not of works,” [Eph 2:8-9] but by the will of God through Jesus Christ” and in chapter 12 he refers to belief in Jesus Christ. Indeed, we must have faith and we aren’t saved by self-generated works. Catholics don’t believe in Pelagianism, or “works-salvation.” We believe in justification through God’s grace by faith (in its initial stage, monergistic): a faith that inherently entails good works, by its very nature, as James teaches — and actually Paul, too, if one looks close enough. These are the good works we are talking about. And Polycarp agrees, for in chapter 1 he also commends the Philippians and remarks that “you have followed the example of true love” and “because the strong root of your faith, . . . endures even until now, and brings forth fruit to our Lord Jesus Christ, . . .”

Catholics can easily harmonize works like these into a schema of justification by grace through faith (which by nature includes works); no problem! But Protestants usually try to highlight the faith part, while ignoring or de-emphasizing the equally biblical works-that-inevitably-flow-from-faith part of the equation. And it’s because they have formally separated faith and works and have (contrary to previous Christian teaching) stuck good works in the separate category of non-salvific, non-meritorious sanctification.

Polycarp expresses the same Catholic soteriology in chapter 3: “For if any one be inwardly possessed of these graces, he has fulfilled the command of righteousness, since he that has love is far from all sin.” And in chapter 4: “let us teach, first of all, ourselves to walk in the commandments of the Lord. Next, [teach] your wives [to walk] in the faith given to them.” And in chapters 5, 9, 10, and 12, he’s also far from any notion of “faith alone”:

[W]e ought to walk worthy of His commandment and glory. . . . If we please Him in this present world, we shall receive also the future world, according as He has promised to us that He will raise us again from the dead, and that if we live worthily of Him, we shall also reign together with Him, [2 Tim 2:12] provided only we believe. . . .  neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, [1 Corinthians 6:9-10]. [5]

I exhort you all, therefore, to yield obedience to the word of righteousness, and to exercise all patience, such as you have seen [set] before your eyes, not only in the case of the blessed Ignatius, and Zosimus, and Rufus, but also in others among yourselves, and in Paul himself, and the rest of the apostles. [This do] in the assurance that all these have not run [Phil 2:16; Gal 2:2] in vain, but in faith and righteousness, and that they are [now] in their due place in the presence of the Lord, with whom also they suffered. [9]

When you can do good, defer it not, because alms delivers from death. [Tobit 4:10; 12:9] [10]

But may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ Himself, who is the Son of God, and our everlasting High Priest, build you up in faith and truth, and in all meekness, gentleness, patience, long-suffering, forbearance, and purity; and may He bestow on you a lot and portion among His saints, and on us with you . . . [12]

Jordan brings up St. Clement of Rome and his Letter to the Corinthians. The same “faith and works” dynamic that we see in Polycarp very much applies to him, too. In chapter 30 he writes:

Let us clothe ourselves with concord and humility, ever exercising self-control, standing far off from all whispering and evil-speaking, being justified by our works, and not our words.
In the next chapter he wrote about Abraham:
For what reason was our father Abraham blessed? Was it not because he wrought righteousness and truth through faith?
Clement teaches justification by faith in chapter 32. We totally agree, as to initial justification. We simply believe that good works (which are meritorious) are necessary after initial justification. But in talking about salvation, it’s clear that he thinks that faith and works are both required, not only faith:
For, as God lives, and as the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost live — both the faith and hope of the elect, he who in lowliness of mind, . . . has observed the ordinances and appointments given by God— the same shall obtain a place and name in the number of those who are being saved through Jesus Christ, . . . [58]
And again: “On account of her faith and hospitality, Rahab the harlot was saved” (chapter 12), and: “He [Abraham], in the exercise of obedience, went out from his own country, and from his kindred, and from his father’s house, in order that, by forsaking a small territory, and a weak family, and an insignificant house, he might inherit the promises of God. . . . On account of his faith and hospitality, a son was given him [Abraham] in his old age” (chapter 10), and: “On account of his hospitality and godliness, Lot was saved out of Sodom” (chapter 11), and: “It is requisite, therefore, that we be prompt in the practice of well-doing; for of Him are all things. And thus He forewarns us: ‘Behold, the Lord [comes], and His reward is before His face, to render to every man according to his work.'” (chapter 34). See the theme and common thread there? He’s very explicit about the crucial role of works and merit in chapters 21 and 35:
Take heed, beloved, lest His many kindnesses lead to the condemnation of us all. [For thus it must be] unless we walk worthy of Him, and with one mind do those things which are good and well-pleasing in His sight. . . . Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us; let us esteem those who have the rule over us; let us honour the aged among us; let us train up the young men in the fear of God; let us direct our wives to that which is good. Let them exhibit the lovely habit of purity [in all their conduct]; let them show forth the sincere disposition of meekness; let them make manifest the command which they have of their tongue, by their manner of speaking; let them display their love, not by preferring one to another, but by showing equal affection to all that piously fear God. Let your children be partakers of true Christian training; let them learn of how great avail humility is with God — how much the spirit of pure affection can prevail with Him — how excellent and great His fear is, and how it saves all those who walk in it with a pure mind. [my italics]
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Let us therefore earnestly strive to be found in the number of those that wait for Him, in order that we may share in His promised gifts. But how, beloved, shall this be done? If our understanding be fixed by faith towards God; if we earnestly seek the things which are pleasing and acceptable to Him; if we do the things which are in harmony with His blameless will; and if we follow the way of truth, casting away from us all unrighteousness and iniquity, along with all covetousness, strife, evil practices, deceit, whispering, and evil-speaking, all hatred of God, pride and haughtiness, vain glory and ambition. [my bolding and italics]
All of this is thoroughly Catholic soteriology. Jordan refers to Clement’s statement about Abraham in chapter 31: “For what reason was our father Abraham blessed? Was it not because he wrought righteousness and truth through faith?” Yes, Abraham had faith. He’s the father of faith. He’s renowned for that. But he also had works. Jordan didn’t mention another instance (one of just three) where Abraham is mentioned, in chapter 10: “He, in the exercise of obedience, went out from his own country, . . . in order that, . . . he might inherit the promises of God.” That’s talking about works. One passage is about his faith, another about his works. Faith and works . . . We can’t only mention one and ignore the other. Jordan notes that Clement was referring to Romans 4, which is about Abraham’s faith. But James 2:21-24 is also in the Bible:
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? [22] You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, [23] and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. [24] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James directly ties the “reckoned as righteous” passage to Abraham’s work of being willing to sacrifice Isaac, which “fulfilled” the other passage. It’s not just faith. It’s faith that inherently, organically includes works, which “complete” faith. Genesis also makes it clear that Abraham’s obedience was central to God’s covenant with him:
Genesis 22:15-18 And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven,  [16] and said, “By myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, [17] I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. And your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies, [18] and by your descendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.”
Catholics joyfully agree that Abraham had extraordinary faith. But we don’t ignore the role that his works and obedience played in his being so honored by God, and saved. The author of Hebrews also mentions Abraham’s works. He ties it together with his faith, even in the famous “faith chapter”: “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance . . .” (11:8).
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For more on Abraham’s justification, see: Abraham: Justified Twice by Works & Once by Faith [8-30-23].
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Jordan brings up The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus, written by “a disciple of the Apostles” (chapter 11). He says:
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41:15 the Epistle to Diognetus is an anonymous book that is probably the best of all of them. It’s a fantastic work. First Clement is wonderful too. Those are the two that are really, I think, the most significant in terms of their evidence for justification.
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This eloquent work approaches justification much as Paul does (and as Catholics do, rightly understood). He writes about initial monergistic justification — which we Catholics fully accept! But — again like Paul and Catholics —  he doesn’t formally separate works from faith as Protestants do, and writes: “. . . to whom He sent His only-begotten Son, to whom He has promised a kingdom in heaven, and will give it to those who have loved Him” (chapter 10). He continues:
Or, how will you love Him who has first so loved you? And if you love Him, you will be an imitator of His kindness. And do not wonder that a man may become an imitator of God. He can, if he is willing. For it is not by ruling over his neighbours, or by seeking to hold the supremacy over those that are weaker, or by being rich, and showing violence towards those that are inferior, that happiness is found; nor can any one by these things become an imitator of God. But these things do not at all constitute His majesty. On the contrary he who takes upon himself the burden of his neighbour; he who, in whatsoever respect he may be superior, is ready to benefit another who is deficient; he who, whatsoever things he has received from God, by distributing these to the needy, becomes a god to those who receive [his benefits]: he is an imitator of God. [chapter 10]
 And he writes along these lines in chapter 12:
When you have read and carefully listened to these things, you shall know what God bestows on such as rightly love Him, being made [as you are] a paradise of delight, presenting in yourselves a tree bearing all kinds of produce and flourishing well, being adorned with various fruits.
Once again, I see nothing whatsoever in this work that contradicts Catholic soteriology. But it seems to have some elements (above) that contradict Lutheran soteriology. It is what it is. I’m simply describing the nature of the work. And I submit that the same thing applies to St. Clement and St. Polycarp.
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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,500+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-five books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. Here’s also a second page to get to PayPal. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing (including Zelle), see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

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Photo credit: see book and purchase information for this volume of mine, from 2007.

Summary: Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper claims that some of the early apostolic Church fathers taught faith alone. I show that Clement & Polycarp do not do so at all.

February 27, 2024

+ Does the New Testament Present an Ecclesiology of “The Church”?

Dr. Gavin Ortlund is a Reformed Baptist author, speaker, pastor, scholar, and apologist for the Christian faith. He has a Ph.D. from Fuller Theological Seminary in historical theology, and an M.Div from Covenant Theological Seminary. Gavin is the author of seven books as well as numerous academic and popular articles. For a list of publications, see his CV. He runs the very popular YouTube channel Truth Unites, which seeks to provide an “irenic” voice on theology, apologetics, and the Christian life. See also his website, Truth Unites and his blog.

In my opinion, he is currently the best and most influential popular-level Protestant apologist, who (especially) interacts with and offers thoughtful critiques of Catholic positions, from a refreshing ecumenical (not anti-Catholic), but nevertheless solidly Protestant perspective. That’s what I want to interact with, so I have issued many replies to Gavin and will continue to do so. I use RSV for all Bible passages unless otherwise specified.

All of my replies to Gavin are collected in one place on my Calvinism & General Protestantism web page, near the top in the section, “Replies to Reformed Baptist Gavin Ortlund.” Gavin’s words will be in blue.

This is my 24th reply to his material.

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I am responding to one of the central claims made in Gavin’s video, “Which Denomination Should You Choose?” (3-17-23). To anticipate one objection: I’m not seeking to be “triumphalistic” or arrogant in defending Catholic claims or critiquing Protestant ones. Everyone (and that includes Catholics!) defends their own view, whatever it is; they may change later, but they are defending one particular thing at any given point of time. I’m seeking to be, rather, “biblical”: as I always try to be in these disputes.

So I will bring a lot of the New Testament to the table and wonder aloud how Protestants interpret and apply these passages; challenge them a bit. I love to be challenged, myself. Catholics interpret the Bible regarding these matters in a certain way and so do Protestants. We ought to and can discuss them as brethren in Christ, and let folks decide — as best we can, hopefully led by the Holy Spirit’s guidance — what the Bible actually teaches in matters of ecclesiology. But we need to have this important discussion.

0:00 one of the questions I get very frequently is, “suppose I’m convinced of Protestantism; which particular denomination should I choose and how do I know in which particular local church?”

This is a very important question, because if we seek Christian truth, we want all of it that we can get, and since Protestant denominations contradict each other in literally hundreds of ways, it follows logically that someone is wrong in those instances (teaching falsehood) and that different denominations represent different degrees of biblical truth.  Protestantism by nature is not one unified whole, but an amalgam of mutually contradictory systems, that have no way of unifying, because of how they have defined authority and the seeking of Christian, biblical truth.

Of course, there is quite bit of common ground among Protestants, too, but what they have in common tends to be also what Protestants share in common with Catholics (trinitarianism, salvation by grace and so forth). The fact remains that they still massively contradict one another. I submit that this is neither a desirable state of affairs nor biblical.

0:24 [the] first [thing] is to realize that the stakes are not as high in choosing between two Protestant traditions, because the Protestant traditions recognize [that] the church does not begin and end with them. We’re not saying we’re the one true church, so if you make the wrong decision, . . . let’s say you become Anglican and you should have been Presbyterian, or you become Presbyterian and you should have been Methodist or something like this, the difference will not be that you’re not in the one true Church.

The problem with this is that the Bible doesn’t seem to ever teach that all this error can be present among Christians, and that it’s fine and dandy and of no concern (even encouraged). I mentioned in another reply recently that the NT mentions the phrase “the truth” 70 times. It’s presupposing that this entity called “the truth” is out there and can be identified. It does not teach (as far as I can tell) that everyone must somehow grasp for the highest degree of truth they can find (in their subjective, fallible judgment) in one given assembly of several thousand Protestant choices: all of which massively contradict the other groups.

The New Testament (St. Paul) refers to “one faith” (Eph 4:5). Jesus prayed three times during the Last Supper that Christians “may [all] be one” (Jn 17:11, 21-22). And what did He mean by that? Would it include massive doctrinal self-contradiction, as we find in Protestantism? It seems not, since Jesus defines this oneness as being “one, even as we are one” (Jn 17:11, 22) and “one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee” (Jn 17:21) and “perfectly one” (Jn 17:23). This is the oneness and unity that God the Father and God the Son enjoy. Do they disagree with each other? Never.  See, for one example of many, John 8:28-29: “. . . I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him.”

It seems to me that Gavin and Protestantism generally deny that this question of doctrinal and moral unity (including an institution to support such unity) is supremely important. They have given up on seeking it. They take a pass, so to speak. I submit that the New Testament assumes or presupposes that “the one true Church” is a discernible, objective fact (the very thing that Gavin says is not the case with any given Protestant denomination). Protestants act as if the very search for the one Church is impossible; it can’t be found. Otherwise they would identify it (as Catholics and Orthodox do), instead of being quick to deny that they even claim such a thing.

How is it, then, that Protestants can think that this matter is so unimportant that Gavin flat-out denies its crucial and non-optional nature by stating, “We’re not saying we’re the one true church”? This is “The Protestant ‘Non-Quest’ for Certainty”, as I have called it.

The New Testament appears to me to take a very different view. If we look up the phrase “the church” we find that it occurs 91 times in the NT. But most of these refer to a local congregation; we also find the term, “churches” (e.g., Acts 15:41; Rom 16:4 and 33 other times). But in the following 21 passages, it seems clear to me that “the church” or “church” refers — as determined by context —  to the one true Church:

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Acts 5:11 And great fear came upon the whole church, . . .

Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,

1 Corinthians 11:22 . . . the church of God . . .

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 15:9 . . . I persecuted the church of God. (same phrase at Gal 1:13)

Ephesians 1:22-23 and he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, [23] which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 3:10 that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.

Ephesians 3:21 to him be glory in the church . . .

Ephesians 5:23-25 . . . Christ is the head of the church, his body . . . [24] . . . the church is subject to Christ . . . [25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Ephesians 5:27, 29, 32 [“the church” appears three times]

Philippians 3:6 . . . [Paul was] a persecutor of the church . . .

Colossians 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church . . .

Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

1 Timothy 3:15 . . . the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

What does the Protestant do with that data? Well, usually they reply (I used to argue this myself in my Protestant days) that they have a general doctrinal unity, and allow differences on what they call “secondary doctrines” (another notion difficult if not impossible to find in the NT). Jesus urged us to “observe all that I have commanded you” (Mt 28:19), without distinguishing between lesser and more central doctrines. The Protestant “solution” for ecclesiology seems, with all due respect, biblically implausible, in light of the fact that in 295 Bible passages (that I have collected in one of my books) notions like “the faith” and “the truth” and “the doctrine” and “teaching” and “the message” are presented as all essentially synonymous.

In other words, again, the “one faith” (Eph 4:5) is assumed in the NT to be an objective entity — a unified body of teaching or “apostolic deposit” that can be identified. It certainly can be on the local level, but it also can be on a churchwide level, such as at the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15), which made a decree, led by St. Peter and St. James, and by the Holy Spirit (hence, infallible), that applied to the entire Church (very much like later ecumenical councils). Hence, the Apostle Paul shared the decree as binding to local churches all through Asia Minor (Turkey; see Acts 16:4).

We see all this Bible above, yet Gavin describes quintessential Protestant ecclesiology as: “We’re not saying we’re the one true church.” Why, then, I ask in all sincerity (trying to understand this), would anyone want to join one mere denomination, which is (by its own self-description) not the one true Church: the one that Jesus Himself set up, with one of His disciples, Peter, as the leader (the pope?), and the other disciples as, in effect, bishops  (Mt 16:18)? How can this one true Church be said to be “the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15) if all it is, is a confusingly self-contradictory collection of thousands of individual denominations?

These inherently entail many hundreds of internal contradictions, and hence, inevitably, doctrinal errors all over the place, even if we can’t immediately determine which denomination is wrong, in terms of doctrine, when it contradicts another, and many others. But we know there are many errors in Protestantism (literally hundreds) by virtue of the nature of a logical contradiction. When two denominations contradict on some point of theology, both can’t be right. At least one is necessarily wrong, and both may be wrong. Error is present, in any event. This must be the case if we accept the laws of logic and of contradiction.

How does this state of affairs bring about the extraordinary oneness — including profound doctrinal agreement — that Jesus prayed for: like the Father and the Son being one? We Catholics contend that the Bible teaches that there is one Church only, with one truth and one unified apostolic tradition (granted, then we must determine how to find it in today’s world). Doctrinal contradiction of any sort is absolutely at odds with biblical teaching, which repeatedly urges unity and forbids divisions of any kind among Christians. Our Lord Jesus viewed His Church as being “one flock” (Jn. 10:16). St. Luke described the earliest Christians as being “of one heart and soul” (Acts 4:32). Luke 2:42 casually mentions “the apostles’ teaching” without any hint that there were competing interpretations of it, or variations of the teaching. St. Peter warned about “false teachers” among Christians, who would “secretly bring in destructive heresies,” which go against “the way of truth” (2 Pet. 2:1-2).

St. Paul, above all, repeatedly condemns “dissensions” (Rom 16:17), “quarreling” (1 Cor 1:11), “jealousy and strife” (1 Cor 3:3), “divisions” and “factions” (1 Cor 11:18-19), “discord” (1 Cor 12:25), “enmity” and “party spirit” (Gal 5:20), and calls for Christians to be “united in the same mind and the same judgment” (1 Cor 1:10; cf. Phil 2:2). He expressly condemns party affiliations associated with persons (1 Cor 1:12-13: “Is Christ divided?”; cf. 3:4-7).

He regards Christian tradition as of one piece; not an amalgam of permissible competing theories: “the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess 3:6); “the truth which has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit” (2 Tim 1:14); “the doctrine which you have been taught” (Rom 16:17); “being in full accord and of one mind” (Phil 2:2); “stand firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel” (Phil 1:27). He, like Jesus, ties doctrinal unity together with the one God: “. . . maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism, . . .” (Eph 4:3-5). His strong and certain teaching on this topic is well summed up in the following two passages:

1 Timothy 6:3-5 If any one teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

Titus 3:9-11 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels over the law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Protestant theologian H. Richard Niebuhr (1894-1962) wrote:

Denominationalism thus represents the moral failure of Christianity. And unless the ethics of brotherhood can gain the victory over this divisiveness within the body of Christ it is useless to expect it to be victorious in the world. But before the church can hope to overcome its fatal division it must learn to recognize and to acknowledge the secular character of its denominationalism. (The Social Sources of Denominationalism, New York: The World Publishing Co. / Meridian Books, 1957; originally 1929, 25)

That’s what a famous Protestant theologian wrote, mind you. It’s arguably far more critical than anything I have written above. But I fully agree that Protestants have to grapple with the question of denominationalism, which is extraordinarily difficult to justify based on biblical teaching. I freely admitted this when I was a Protestant, too, by the way. I thought it was scandalous and that it made evangelism very difficult to undertake, seeing that Christians disagreed about so much. I didn’t have a definitive “answer” to that (other than that sin brought about seemingly unsolvable division). My solution in the long run was to accept that the Catholic option made more biblical and historical sense: that it tied everything together in a way that no Protestant option could or ever would.

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,500+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-five books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. Here’s also a second page to get to PayPal. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing (including Zelle), see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

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Photo credit: see book and purchase information for this volume of mine.

Summary: Protestant apologist Gavin Ortlund notes that Protestants are “not saying we’re the one true church.” I reply that the Bible makes it impossible to avoid this issue.


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