2021-03-18T21:35:49-04:00

I got these examples from Jonathan MS Pearce’s A Tippling Philosopher blog, from four different comboxes with many hundreds of comments each: made between 3-11-21 and 3-18-21. Links will be provided. I am only documenting what they say about me; not every Christian or otherwise non-atheist who dares to enter their sublime hallowed, oh-so-academic and intelligent environs.

I’ve allowed a measure of the “PG-13” language. It almost had to be let through in order to illustrate the utter idiocy and worthlessness of all of these comments. So be forewarned.

*****

Proverbs 1:22 (RSV) How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge?

Proverbs 15:2 . . . the mouths of fools pour out folly.

Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 26:11 Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool that repeats his folly.

Luke Breuer: Curiously enough, Tippling actually manages to keep a lot of insults down to a reasonable level, such that actual discussion can keep happening. And this without uniform groupthink,  . . . (3-14-21)

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HairyEyedWordBombThrower:

Still fishing for clicks, you hack? Go away. We’re not giving you any traffic, so I hope those Communion wafers have all the required vitamins and minerals, because no clicks means no MONEY. (3-15-21)

Davie-poo, stop lying. We HAVE replied, often at great length. Then you, in your predictably cowardly fashion, block / ban / rewrite the comments as necessary to make you the hero. YOUR KIND no longer have the ability to goad us into following you back. Ain’t it great? ;-) (3-15-21)

Fishing for clicks like the beggar you are. Worse, a beggar who thinks he’s a prince, a The Prince and the Pauper-style, jumped-up cretin ‘prince’. (3-15-21)

Davie-poo, YOU make the positive claim, YOU provide evidence. We just don’t believe you because
– You *haven’t* provided evidence
– You’re a demonstrated honorless lying cretin. (3-15-21)

Dishonorably lying, blocking those who counter your assertions, rewriting comments to retroactively show you to be ‘right’…. the list goes on, Davie-poo. (3-15-21)

Oh, I know YOUR KIND demand we deny reality and allow ourselves to be abused and browbeaten with your lies… but we’re under no obligation to comply. (3-15-21)

You’ve blocked / banned / removed any contesting views, no matter how respectfully addressed. Get over yourself, or at least have the honor, courage, and general decency to not lie and then double down on your Big Lie. (3-15-21)

I see you’re still raging against your insignificance. We don’t want you to go away *mad*, just go away. And we won’t visit any more than we *have*, which is why you infest our spaces with your scrofulous presence. (3-13-21)

You’re a pathetic, needy, lonely liar who tries and constantly FAILS at taunting any of us to give your page any hits. Why don’t you just go martyrbate with YOUR KIND and leave us good people here in peace? (3-13-21)

You just want to plaster your hateful authoritarian agitprop like manure on somebody else’s property. (3-15-21)

YOU have and do support Nazis. Not our problem. Get over your hate and prejudice. (3-13-21)

You’re dodging an answer, as the answer you’re itching to give would condemn yourself. And concerning just and fair moderation of fora… pot, meet kettle. YOU PERSONALLY are the least just, least fair, *most* thin-skinned weakling bully that I’ve seen in Patheos. (3-13-21)

Poor Davie-poo. IF he answers honestly, he’ll be exposed as the fascist authoritarian power-lusting scumbag that he is. (3-13-21)

Davie-poo, when you fly in, purposely try to create bad feeling to bait denizens of those fora to follow you back to your own path etic, forlorn, deserted blog for clicks, shit in the punchbowl, etc… why SHOULDN’T you be banned as a sociopathic danger to civil discussion? What makes you think you have a right to soil somebody else’s private property? Why do you hate the free market of ideas and free enterprise, complete with rules to exclude those obviously dealing in bad faith? (3-13-21)

Dave, (sadly) you’d be AMAZED at how little we care about what you believe. You’re a crybully wasting the time of everybody in this thread, and need to fix yourself, rather than lashing out at those of us who HAVE freed our minds of the supernatural terrors that still bedevil you. (3-13-21)

Poor pathetic Davie, mining for clicks and relevance again. We know you’re a liar who just wants traffic…. so I’ll do my best to make sure nobody wastes time on your martyrbating hypocritical blog. (3-17-21)

Liar. You pontificate, then either insult / misdirect / derail, or, if it’s on your own moribund blog, you deceptively edit and delete posts that aren’t amenable to such selective editing, and block those who have valid arguments that you can’t counter . . . (3-18-21)

Ignorant Amos:

You’re lying again. We know how to tell, your hypothetical mouth is moving. (3-15-21)

Bwaaahahahaha… what a cretin. You’ve banned those who attempt to defend at your dump, ya dishonest lying louse. (3-13-21)

What a lying for Jesus piece of pish, is Armstrong. (3-13-21)

Liar, liar, pants on fire. (3-13-21)

You’ll burn in Hell brother, so will you brother…see ya’ll down there.. (3-13-21)

What a lying bastard. You banned Bob Seidensticker when he went to your shitehole to respond to your dross. You were subsequently banned at Cross Examined because you banned Bob for doing that very thing you accuse him of not doing here, not hearing from him again. Now you engage in bad mouthing him, when it is you who is the chickenshite cowardly bastard who can’t hack it. I don’t think Jonathan MS Pearce should be giving you a platform for spewing this lies and slander. (3-14-21)

Well it gets very lonely in his wee “panic room” of a shite blog where he goes to hide, and where saying anything he decides is contentious, which is just about everything that is in disagreement with his nonsense, gets one the the banhammer. With nothing but a handful of toady arselickers for company in his own house, it’s understandable he can’t maintain his flounce for any noticeable length of time. (3-14-21)

He’s the proverbial “legend in his own lunchtime”, isn’t he? (3-14-21)

Ya lying piece of shite. (3-14-21)

So still a very disingenuous louse, if not technically a liar. (3-15-21)

He lies about lots of other stuff, so I’ve no reason to trust his honesty where there is ambiguity. (3-15-21)

And that is a loada lies, and demonstrably so. (3-14-21)

90Lew90:

I’m sure your six readers will be along presently. (3-12-21)

I can assure you that the level of tolerance in comments here far exceeds anything Armstrong allows. Dave, meanwhile, has me blocked and banned for daring to challenge him on his site. I should add, he locked and banned me after creating two whole posts on his blog out of our exchange, thus precluding me from replying. That’s how Dave rolls. Very poor show. (3-12-21)

It says a lot more about his ego than his readers. His books are all self-published and he has no readers. (3-12-21)

Your project of trying to show the truth of the Bible “from a Catholic perspective” just betrays that you haven’t shaken off your evangelical perspective which is decidedly un-Catholic and you’re missing the point of Catholicism by trying to stitch your evangelicalism into it. Poorly. (3-11-21)

You appear to know almost nothing about the Catholicism you have adopted and profess, and have gotten yourself a soapbox from which to wave around your ignorance of it, . . . your attempted racket, ahem, ‘blog’, ‘Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, With Dave Armstrong’. The title on its own smacks of self-promotion; life lessons from your burnt out local radio host. . . . You’re the kind of person who would be a priest if you thought there was money in it and you could still have sex. . . . you appear to have spent more time studying how much tax-deductible cash you can get for the “papers” you publish on your blog. . . . Apart from your constantly begging for money all over your posts, redirecting to more of your posts for clicks, and plugging your 50 self-published books, the detail you provide here is all about how people can give you income on which you don’t have to pay tax. As a dubious bonus, we’re treated to an unflattering picture of you looking every bit the pea-brained burnout (perhaps you thought you looked like a kinda cool “family man” or something), still aiming for that one big money maker. . . . You include in your “qualifications” your “literary resume”. Give me a break you venal little &%$@#. (3-13-21)

You’re here to drive traffic to your blog. (3-13-21)

Armstrong comes here solely to drive traffic to his own blog. (3-13-21)

Frankly, the man doesn’t know Catholicism at all, and to read one or two of his articles is enough to leave one feeling somewhat sullied. He’s applying his former Protestant, evangelical approach in a kind of Christianity where it has no place. (3-13-21)

democommiescrazierbrother:

I just took a look at his facebook page, wottan#%$@&*%. One might be forgiven for thinking it’s more “griftin’ teh roobwazee than prinicipled apologetics*. * I’m not sure if it’s like intermarriages between matter and anti-matter but, I do think that, “principled apologetics” is prolly an oxymoron or contradiction in terms. (3-12-21)

Bob Seidensticker:

In short, you’re too much trouble. Wading through the bile to find an interesting point has been too much work. (3-14-21)

WCB:

You ban everybody who does that. That is why nobody over at your black hole site does it. Banned1 Banned! Banned! (3-14-21)

You are not that good as an apologist. And when anybody starts demonstrating that on your site, you ban them. (3-13-21)

Armstrong is an apologist. Not much of a theologian, but theology is not his mission. One of the reasons to play with people like Armstrong is to see what he has been peddling to the world. So we can be sure that we atheists are not using bad arguments that do not apply to people like Armstrong. Debunking Dave is not hard really. (3-17-21)

If Dave won’t seriously discuss these issues with me, it is because I bring up issues he has no easy, glib apologist’s argument that can win the day. This is all off the apologist’s beaten path, with the usual canned answers, an my posts are designed to be that way. . . . Playing the apologist game is not new with me, and Armstrong is not much different. (3-17-21)

JMallett:

You: Nobody wants to play with me!!! This could be a hint that maybe, just maybe, you aren’t that good at your job. (3-11-21)

Tiresome drivel. (3-16-21)

Grimlock:

Lots of Patheos Catholic blogs with more commenters. Not to mention more interesting and civilized commenters. (3-15-21)

im-skeptical:

You stand in proud defiance of truth and reality. (3-13-21)

Raging Bee:

You’re the only one who doesn’t see the debunkings and rebuttals you routinely get. (3-14-21)

Maybe he should be banned from this one too, since he’s banned nearly all of us from his blog while taking advantage of Pearce’s tolerance to hog attention here — while blocking and ignoring most of the people he’s badgering here. That’s both unseemly and unfair. I don’t mind letting people with such opinions comment and argue here, but hypocritical dishonest behavior like Dave’s should not be tolerated. (3-17-21)

TheMarsCydonia:

I am unsurprised that after all these years that you believe there one iota of fair moderating practices in your forums. (3-13-21)

You do say a lot of things to avoid having rational or objective discussions whenever you’re called out… (when you don’t outright ban people). (3-13-21)

3lemenope:

He bragged of his great patience after giving up with someone over the course of a couple of exchanges. I’m not against blocking as a rule–it’s a tool with a purpose, and very helpful for preserving bandwidth for non-trolls–but this guy thinks of his own thin-skinned hair trigger banning reflex to be the height of patience and deliberation. That kind of distorted self-perception is weird almost to the point of parody. (3-13-21)

It certainly isn’t my fault that you literally stand in common cause with ‮sizaN‬, Fascists, nihilists, and neo-Confederates by supporting Trump and the modern GOP. That’s your problem. It’s just compounded by your unwillingness to notice or acknowledge that the people you stand next to, by choice, are the very worst people. Maybe you’re just an angel in a sea of demons, bringing the light of conscience to pandemonium. But it isn’t likely. And when you try to dress up the vile movement you willingly associate with as something of actual intellectual pedigree, like conservatism in its primary descriptions in the annals of political history and political science, I’m gonna call you out on that shit. (3-13-21)

Fmr ATrealDonaldTrump ��:

People like Armstrong illustrate that there are “Conservative Cafeteria Catholics” as well as liberal “Cafeteria Catholics. (3-15-21)

Neko:

&%#$ Armstrong, he banned me for accusing him of being an apologist for the insurrectionist party, i.e., the Trumpist GOP, which is nothing less than the *^&%$#@%$ truth! (3-14-21)

John Loftus [cited by “WCB” who apparently asked him why he wouldn’t respond to my critiques]:

Yes [Dave was banned], because he is ignorant and obnoxious. It’s the obnoxious part that was too much. (cited on 3-13-21)

al kimeea:

I’ve read of your behaviour to valid criticism, so no traffic for you. (3-18-21)

RoverSerton:

Funny how you go to sites like this for interaction since you have ZERO comments on your dark spot on the internet. Since you ban everyone that you can’t refute, it must be a lonely lonely place to live. (3-18-21)

Lark62:

You’re nothing but a dishonest hack begging and pleading for clicks. Everyone outside your small collection of sycophants knows you’re pathetic. (3-17-21)

Here he cannot ban anyone and everyone who hints at disagreeing with him. He cannot bear to have anyone point out his inadequacy. (3-17-21)

Ya know what? I don’t give a tinker’s dam about what King You thinks “doesn’t fly.” Pathetic hacks terrified of actual conversation are in no position to the judge whether an argument “succeeds.” (3-17-21)

Illithid:

If you wanted open-minded, rational interaction, you wouldn’t ban people from your blog for specious reasons. (3-16-21)

***

Related Reading

Debunking Christianity: Never-Ending Insults of Christianity [2-7-11]

The Atheist Obsession with Insulting Christians [9-15-15]

Angry Anti-Theism Strikes Again! (“Dave Armstrong is Delusional”) [3-31-17]

Illogical Angry Atheists: Five Typical Examples [7-21-17]

Not Many “Angry Atheists” Online? You be the Judge [7-22-17]

Atheist Blogs Delete & Block Insulters & Idiots, Too! [7-31-17]

Why I Blocked Anti-Theist Atheist Bob Seidensticker [8-8-18]

Hysterical Frenzy vs. Me on Atheist Seidensticker’s Blog [8-10-18]

Atheist Eloquently & Admirably Denounces Anti-Theism [4-12-19]

Anti-Theist Atheist Snobfest & Insult Extravaganza [12-7-20]

Atheist Blogger Renounces Angry Anti-Theist Obsessions [3-16-21]

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Photo credit: Philippe Gillotte (9-7-10) [Flickr / CC BY-NC-ND 2.0 license]

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Summary: I document a classic “feeding frenzy”: a regular, time-honored tactic of anti-theist atheists, who collectively decide to lie about & slander a person (me in this case), sans any semblance of rational arguments.

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2021-03-18T14:00:07-04:00

Atheist anti-theist Jonathan M. S. Pearce is the main writer on the blog, A Tippling Philosopher. His “About” page states: “Pearce is a philosopher, author, blogger, public speaker and teacher from Hampshire in the UK. He specialises in philosophy of religion, but likes to turn his hand to science, psychology, politics and anything involved in investigating reality.” 

Jonathan wrote a paper entitled, “The Double Standards Involved with Doubting Thomas” (3-16-21). I replied with Pearce’s Potshots #17: Doubting Thomas & an “Unfair” God (3-16-21). I also responded at length to two other atheists in his forum, on the same topic: Debate w Atheists: Doubting Thomas & an “Unfair” God (3-17-21). Jonathan has now counter-responded with Doubting Thomas: A Response to Catholic Dave Armstrong (3-17-21), to which I now reply. His words will be in blue.

*****

I will leave aside the dubious historicity of this pericope, especially given that it is merely a response to the Pauline theology of a spiritual resurrection (each successive Gospel renounces the Pauline theology more and more, with John having Thomas prove that Jesus is not just resurrected spiritually, but very much bodily too).

What else is new? The atheist of course has to doubt the genuine nature of anything in Scripture (on inadequate grounds) and has to (by some immutable law of the universe) engage in worthless speculation about origins and purpose (with no supporting evidence presented, let alone plausible evidence), including a flat-out falsehood about St. Paul supposedly teaching a “spiritual resurrection only, and not a bodily one.

I dealt with this latter question, not just once, but twice, in engaging atheist polemicist Bob Seidensticker, who has chosen to utterly ignore 72 of my critiques. With this baggage (three major false premises), Jonathan proceeds to provide some sort of cogent, coherent analysis of the passage.

Instead, let me return to my original point, which is just a corollary of this asserted incident: that the great St Thomas only ended up believing in Jesus’ resurrection when presented with first-hand sensory experience of it (such that the apparent eyewitness testimony of his fellow disciples was not enough).

That’s no kind of “point”; it’s merely the assertion of a self-evident fact.

Yet, for an awful lot of modern potential and actual Christians (and all people throughout time, from Amazonian tribespeople to someone born in Riyadh in the 1600s), there is a completely unfair distribution of evidence. Thomas is afforded far more evidence so that he eventually believes (and becomes a saint, no less) than I can ever hope for or reasonably expect. If the end result of judgement (and heaven or hell) is based on my belief decision (or in Amazonians’ cases, there is no Christian option in their “decision”), then this seems even more unfair.

And I have thoroughly replied to this charge twice. We’ll see if Jonathan actually interacts with my arguments.

Dave Armstrong, a fellow Patheoser, though on the Catholic channel, often baits me to respond, and this time I have accepted. He replied to my short piece, saying on my own thread:

Perhaps some folks will have the intellectual courage, and/or curiosity, and/or open-mindedness to actually rationally interact with my argument this time, rather than engage in crazed, mindless personal attacks, such as massively, obsessively took place in two recent threads. One person already has, which is wonderful.

“Bait” has a decidedly negative connotation. It doesn’t describe how I have acted towards Jonathan at all. Merriam-Webster online defines it as:

to persecute or exasperate with unjust, malicious, or persistent attacks

to try to make angry with criticism or insults

Jonathan has replied to some five or six of my critiques in the past. Then he just stopped. I complained a bit (which was not “baiting”: but simply inquiring as to why he stopped). He explained in a long post that he was very busy and had some health problems, too. I fully accepted that, appreciated the clarification, and wished him the best. Since then I have simply informed him out of courtesy that I have replied to one of his articles. If he wishes me to cease doing that, too (and/or leave his forum if I upset the apple cart too much), I’ll be happy to comply.

My words above were not directed to Jonathan (because he doesn’t engage in such personal attacks), but to many other people on his forum who can do nothing but insult when it comes to me. I was registering my strong protest against that. Jonathan apparently has no problem with such personal attacks at all and allows any conceivable personal attack to be aired on his forum. So I rebuked it in no uncertain terms.

I’m looking for intelligent, probing, challenging discussion, not mud pie fights and urinating matches. The personal attacks from others against me continue full force on his blog, in several comboxes. I ignore them, block the people who do it, and once in a while make a protesting statement such as the above. I am certainly entitled to express indignation at such nonsense (like virtually any other human being would also do).

To give just one example of hundreds, Steven Watson, underneath this latest article from Jonathan, stated: “Armstrong is in the grip of an irrational delusion, he is a loony.” You get the idea. This is the sort of comment Jonathan has no problem permitting on his site. On my blog, on the other hand, if someone made a ridiculous comment like that about a particular atheist, he would be immediately banned. So we have vastly different opinions as to the nature of constructive and civil discussion.

So — nice try Jonathan — now we get back to the actual topic at hand.

This is ironic since he has, as you shall see, failed to interact with my actual points.

Nonsense. I responded by attacking Jonathan’s false premises. This is what socratics always do (and I am a socratic). Then the charge comes back that this is not a response. It certainly is: just on a deeper level than the person critiqued wants to deal with. In my other debate with two of Jonathan’s friends on the same topic (linked above) I go into, much more depth. Blanket statements like this that are untrue, do not help the debate proceed forward. But Jonathan does interact with my arguments to some extent.

His defences of this are as follows:

“Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Did you notice the last verse there? The Thomas incident was not regarded by Jesus as normative, but rather, a special act of mercy that was not “epistemologically required.” Jesus thought it wasn’t necessary, and criticized Thomas at the end for his undue doubt. He did it because He loved Thomas, and we all do many things that aren’t required for our loved ones.

Irrespective of whether Thomas was somewhat chastised here, the point remains entirely the same: Thomas was afforded far more evidence, and went on to be a foundational member of the church and have some kind (one is pretty sure) of union with God, which appears to be one of the goals that God has set for humanity.

This still doesn’t establish that:

1) empirical evidence is the be-all and end-all regarding evidences for God’s existence,

or that

2) all human beings must receive the same sort of visitation from Jesus, lest it is “unfair” that they received less verification, which is “required” for them to properly decide the “God question”,

or that

3) God hasn’t provided sufficient evidence of His existence to each person in many different ways (not just empirical).

It is the many unspoken premises lying beneath this charge that I attack as false.

I still don’t remotely get to cross or even approach that evidentiary threshold or benchmark. All I get is a bunch of people telling me a particular book is true, amongst a whole collection of holy books and revelations from other people and cultures and religions around the world, and the assertion that this one alone is the one.

And that’s it.

That’s not “it” at all. There are all kinds of Christian arguments. These have a cumulative effect.

I cannot be convinced by personal revelation, since Muslims and Hindus have them too.

This is considered some sort of “argument”? Obviously, one has to consider the Christian arguments for why the Bible is a uniquely inspired document, and indeed, God’s revelation. There are hundreds and hundreds of them. One way to show that it is plausible to believe that the Bible is inspired is to shoot down alleged “contradictions” in its pages. I recently did that with 59 alleged “contradictions” regarding Jesus’ Resurrection, in response to one of Jonathan’s articles. When a point of view is that consistently wrong, it shows that something is seriously awry.  No one took it upon themselves to make any sort of direct reply. Instead, I received an avalanche of personal insults.

And philosophical arguments can only really get you to atheism, or deism or theism, as large umbrellas. The Bible is what gets you to Christianity.

Correct. And that’s why I devote my time in atheist venues mostly to defending the Bible: understanding this very thinking, and knowing that going round and round with philosophy accomplishes virtually nothing. Jonathan (like many atheists) insists on taking his shots at the Bible, and I reply with counter-arguments. He’s now playing on my field when he does that. If that’s what he wants to do, more power to him. I’m here. Bring it on.

And that is very poor evidence indeed. Unknown authors, writing in unknown times and places that we can only guess at, with unknown sources, unverified and unverifiable, writing with evangelising agendas ex post facto, with no historiographical pedigree.

It’s shockingly poor evidence.

These are just blanket hostile statements, not arguments, and as such, deserve no further consideration.

And I can supposedly go to hell on the back of whether I choose to believe that very low-level evidence (let’s call it 5%) and St Thomas (the Apostle) gets to stroll through the pearly gates, one assumes, on the back of not believing (assuming the Gospels are true here) with a level of, say, 90%, and Jesus then reversing this unbelief (in the Resurrection, and thus Jesus’ divinity, and thus the atonement – not that he actually would have understood this at the time, I wager) by getting Thomas to poke him, and raising the evidential threshold to 95%!! (I am somewhat making these figures up to illustrate my point).

This is just a more colorful way of reiterating the original assertion, which is shot-through with demonstrably false premises. It’s simplistic thinking. He does (thank God for small favors!) eventually start dealing with my actual arguments.

Armstrong claims my position is based on three premises that he refutes:

1) The notion that empiricism is the only way to verify or prove anything, as if there are no other ways of knowing.

2) The denial that God is already known by observing the universe, as Romans 1 states.

3) The idea that every atheist would immediately believe (and respond exactly as Thomas did) if only they had the “100% sure!” experience of Thomas: with the risen Jesus standing there, bodily, so that he could touch Him.

Thanks for putting these words into my mouth, but the first two doesn’t really apply to Thomas – or at least all equally get him to Judaism, or some theism.

At any rate, the first two are either nonsense or straw men, or both.

Hogwash. The entire issue as atheists see it, is the alleged “unfairness” of Thomas receiving such a crystal-clear evidence of the risen Jesus, thus allowing him to more easily believe that Jesus is God, and (obviously) that God does exist. This is empirical evidence through-and-through, entailing the evidence of senses and the experience of touching a physical, alive-again Jesus Who had just been killed. So atheists complain about how this is so terribly “unfair!” God is such a meanie and a brute, to be so absurdly unjust in how He presents evidence for Himself.

My denial that empirical evidence is the only evidence or any way to reliably know anything undercuts this whole notion, because then it’s not the only way God can reveal Himself. That’s the false premise. Jonathan needs to prove first of all that empiricism is the cat’s meow, epistemologically speaking. Instead, he chooses to ignore that (the elephant in the room) and merely assert that my brining it up is “nonsense or [a] straw [man]”. I then get into willful rejection, another factor that Jonathan ignored in his presentation, as if will plays no part in the choices all human beings make on a variety of issues.

(3) is a false analogy since Thomas was not an atheist. Thomas has just been in godmanspirit’s ministry. Either he already believed Jesus was God (almost certainly not the case) or that he was a Messiah (much more likely, though it must be remembered that this whole event recorded here almost certainly never happened). Then, after all the crazy stuff that supposedly happened, and all the claims of his fellow disciples that this would have entailed, he still didn’t believe. (It is worth reinforcing here that the theology of this piece is not primarily about epistemology, but about the form of Jesus’ resurrection to fight off the theology we see Paul discussing with the Corinthians).

Whether he’s an atheist or not, his example is being used to assert that God is “unfair” and that God ought to make similar appearances to atheists en masse.

Thomas was, according to the Gospel, afforded a level of evidence I will never get, and nor will (or has) any other human, I would argue, in the history of Christianity.

Exactly. This is the point I just made (I am replying as I read).

Thomas got to be in Jesus’ gang, and then touch his resurrected body whilst conversing with him (God).

Yep.

I’ll ignore the long tirade of articles Armstrong offers to attack my apparent sole reliance on empiricism (as if, as a philosopher arguing all day long about all sorts of things, that empiricism is my single only route to epistemological conclusions).

Scholars offer footnotes for further reading: if anyone desires to do so. I offer my own articles. Somehow this is objectionable and Jonathan describes a collection of related links as a “tirade.” It’s laughable. The argument that was made was entirely of an empirical nature. An utterly empirical experience (Thomas’s) is used to try to indict God for unfairness and “double standards.” That requires a prior analysis of empiricism and noting that it’s not the sum total of all knowledge. Many many atheists think that it is. If Jonathan doesn’t (welcome to the club) then he needs to formulate non-empirical arguments with regard to Doubting Thomas and atheist unbelief.

His claims about point (2) are pretty naive:

Romans 1:19-20 (RSV) For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.  [20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. . . .

 Not only is this just asserted nonsense that also gets you to every other religion, but it has nothing to do with the point in hand: Doubting Thomas and the varied apportioning of evidence for the Christian god to all humans throughout time.

So I will ignore this and his defence of it.

I explained this in my related dialogue, linked above:

I was presenting how the Bible itself views this issue of God being “fair”; and how it views evidence and how God is known. The critique in the OP is of the Bible. If Jonathan didn’t want it to be [at least partially] a biblical discussion then he shouldn’t and wouldn’t have ever introduced the Doubting Thomas story into it. Since he did, I explain why it doesn’t fly (from our Christian perspective).

If I critique atheism, then you can explain your view (that I don’t accept, just as you don’t accept ours). If you claim the Christian view is unjust or insufficient or incoherent / inconsistent in some way, then the Christian quite logically responds by showing how this isn’t (internally) the case.

I’m not citing the Bible to try to convince atheists of anything: only to explain why the atheist critique of Christianity in this instance doesn’t succeed (being based on insufficient understanding of what the biblical teaching is in the first place).

It’s Jonathan who exercises double standards. He reserves the prerogative to enter into the territory of biblical interpretation by giving his two cents’ about Doubting Thomas and the implications of the story for atheists, but if I come back and attempt to explain it from a Christian perspective (getting into the wider area of unbelief), then he wants no part of it. In effect, then, he seems to think that an atheist can comment on the Bible, but if a Christian does, it’s “naive” and “nonsense” and only fit to be ignored.

To which I reply: if you’re gonna bring up the Bible, don’t be surprised that a Christian will 1) defend the Bible, and 2) comment upon related passages in it that are relevant to the point. Jonathan thinks God is unfair, and this passage is evidence (he thinks) of that. We show how it is not and show how the biblical Christian outlook, rightly understood, is not an unfair system at all. That’s completely relevant to the discussion. But Jonathan has this double standard whereby only atheists can do biblical exegesis. If the Christian apologist (who obviously knows nothing about the Bible) deigns to do the same thing, it’s “naive” and “nonsense”. It’s just dumb. Unless atheists are called on these unsavory and illogical techniques of “argument” they will keep doing it.

His defence of point (3):

As for #3, many atheists — if not necessarily Jonathan — casually assume that pretty much every atheist and skeptic would respond as Thomas did. Jesus thought quite otherwise…

He misses my point. I am not really bothered whether I would react the same or differently to Thomas. My general point is that all sorts of people react differently to the same level of evidence, and all sorts of people get different levels of evidence. It’s all a bit of an unfair mess.

How is it unfair? Jonathan has to establish that there is no other kind of evidence that people receive (Christians assert that there are hundreds of such evidences, of widely different sorts). And he has to establish that all atheists are completely objective, impartial, rational machines, in which there is no slightest shred of resistance to truth or evidence when presented; no bias, no willful rejection, no irrational emotionalism, etc., etc. ad infinitum.

All of these factors and more have to be discussed in order to plausibly make this grand charge of UNFAIRNESS of that wascally wascal: God. In other words, it’s a vastly more complex issue than he makes out. But atheists are masters at simplistic, one-millimeter- deep arguments against the Bible and Christianity.

Imagine I have a class of 30 children to whom I give a test. All 30 children have different brains, knowledges, abilities and thresholds, etc. I give them a test of 100 questions, and declare that the children who fail to get 70/100 will get detention. Children who get 70 will get a special treat.

I then give them a test.

Except, I also give out different cheat sheets to everyone ranging from 0 points of help to 90 points. Each child either gets no extra help or gets some kind of leg up to getting closer to that 70 point success. Some people, like little Thomas, get a cheat sheet with answers worth 95 points. Lucky him.

Poor Alice, who is not very clever (due to her genetics and troublesome environment) gets a cheat sheet with 0 points of help, and gets 16/100 and detention.

We could actually make this more accurate: some children are given trickster cheat sheets, like our Saudi student, Mo, who gets a sheet that actually tells him wrong answers, and leaves him with 35 points less than he would have got. He gets 50, and receives a detention.

This is my analogy to explain the point.

All of this assumes what it needs to prove: that the empirical evidence of the Thomas incident is somehow the whole ball of wax as to proofs for God. It’s simply not. The fact that the analogy has Thomas receiving 95 points out of a 100 on his cheat sheet, absolutely illustrates that Jonathan thinks such an empirical proof comprises at least 95% of the evidence or proof of God. Thanks for making my point for me, Jonathan! It still remains to be proved that, somehow, empirical evidence is 95% of all the evidence that can be mustered up in theistic proofs.

And, in my previous piece, this was my potential theistic wriggle:

Perhaps, as a teacher, I actually take in the answers, don’t announce to anyone the results until the end of the school day whereby, after plugging their results into a matrix that calculates an outcome based on (1) abilities, (2) environment, (3) cheat sheets, and (4) their results and spits out their end mark, I enforce on them a detention or a reward.

That would need some unpicking and looks rather like some kind of deterministic algorithm, the results of which, as a teacher, I knew in advance anyway. In other words, creating the test is pointless. What it would actually look like is everyone getting the same marks since the algorithm would have to be fair: there would be no child who would have their environment, genetics, cheat sheet or anything else over which they have no control giving them an advantage or disadvantage.

The only fair option for an OmniGod designing and creating all humanity from nothing is to give everyone the same chance; and when we control for causal circumstances, this translates to the same score.

Again, this is circular reasoning. An empirical-only epistemology is assumed from the outset (without proof and seeming oblivious unawareness of the massive amount of reasoning against such a naive epistemology). It’s assumed that there is no other form of evidence that can be used to prove the existence of God and offer a way salvation to all, etc. This (surprise!) leads to the conclusion already preordained from the outset by false and hostile premises: God is unfair.

Yeah: the straw-man “God” set up in such a silly mind game is what is unfair, because the whole thing is rigged from the outset with stupid, false premises. In my “tirade” of links that Jonathan blew off, I explain how and why it is a false premise, for all who are interested in hearing the reasons why. It’s not just me saying it (which I wouldn’t use as a basis for any claim). The literally logically absurd views of empiricism-only and logical positivism were destroyed philosophically by the early 50s at the latest by philosophers like Michael Polanyi and others. I’m surprised it took that long, or that these silly views ever took hold among serious thinkers in the first place.

Armstrong doesn’t get all of this, it seems; he is happy merely taking the opportunity to have some pop shots:

Jonathan, like most atheists, completely overlooks the prideful, stubborn and irrationally defiant aspect of atheism (and indeed of the human race, generally speaking). St. Paul wrote about that, too…

But lest atheists (or anyone) think that therefore no atheist can be saved, this is not Paul’s position, either, as he clarifies in the next chapter:

Therefore, an atheist can possibly be saved, and there is a big biblical distinction between the not-convinced seeker after truth and the outright rejecter of God. But they can’t be saved if they know God exists (are conscious of that belief) and reject Him and His free offer of grace and salvation. How much one “knows” is obviously the key. And only God knows that for any given person. It’s not for other persons to judge that or to condemn people to hell. They don’t have nearly even knowledge to make that determination.

Lovely, but almost nothing to do with the point at hand.

It has everything to do with the topic at hand: which is the alleged unfairness of God. I took pains to show that in the biblical, Christian view, God is not unfair at all (and even he indirectly acknowledges this by saying “Lovely”). Atheists routinely assume that the Bible and all Christians teach that all atheists (and indeed all non-Christians) go to hell and that they are uniformly wicked. I explain that both things are false and that God is infinitely more merciful and “fair” and just than the caricature that typically floats around in atheist circles.

But Jonathan is blinded in his Ultra-Empiricism as the be-all and end-all of (I guess) everything in the universe; every philosophical or theological proposed “difficulty.”

Thomas decided not to believe; he rejected God. But God gave him special treatment. Why can’t he do that for everyone else?

This again assumes what it is trying to prove: empirical proofs are all there is; therefore, since Thomas “got” this one; all others must, too, lest God be an unfair moron and arbitrary tyrannical monster. But if the premise is false, so is Jonathan’s conclusion. He hasn’t shown the slightest inclination to  more deeply analyze or scrutinize his premises. I know, it’s scary and intimidating to do so, but this is the duty of thinkers.

This is not about what it would take to make any given person believe, but about that some people throughout history are supposedly afforded huge amounts of evidence, whilst others suffer terribly from divine hiddenness, perhaps being brought up in Saudi Arabia or the Australian outback in the 1500s. Some get those cheat sheets with 50 extra points, others are set back -30.

This is incoherent. To say that Thomas (and others like him) receive “huge amounts of [empirical] evidence” is necessarily also asserting that those who didn’t receive “Thomas-like” evidence were treated shabbily. Therefore, such assertions are indeed also dealing with “what it would take to make any given person believe.” The very claim of “unfairness” presupposes this.

I should think that at some point atheists would tire of their own viciously circular arguments with utterly unexamined premises. These may satisfy and titillate those in the choir and echo chamber, but they certainly don’t impress anyone outside of it.

Armstrong finishes off with:

Lastly, atheists manage to believe many extraordinary things without much proof (or even understanding) at all.

Whaaaaat? Examples please. Otherwise what can be asserted without evidence can be summarily dismissed without any.

Of course I proceeded to explain what I meant, with examples and a link (which Jonathan cited, so I have no idea why he thinks I didn’t do so.

Why should they place the existence of God in a category all its own? For example, I have written about how atheists in effect “worship” the atom (this paper raised such a huge ruckus that I had to do a follow-up paper to explain the nature of the satire), and attribute to it virtually every characteristic that Christians believe God possesses: it supposedly came from nothing (this one not a trait of God), managed to have the inherent capability to evolve and create and bring about everything we see in the universe, including consciousness, life, the galaxies, etc.

This is what Jonathan cited from my reply, that he just claimed I didn’t explain. If you can figure out this chain of reasoning, please let me know.

Nothing to do with the point at hand. 

It has everything to do with the point at hand. It’s claimed that God must provide ironclad “evidence” (of course as atheists define the term) of everything related to God and Christianity, lest He be brutally “unfair.” We say that He does, but in ways in addition to those atheists concentrate on. My point here is one of “epistemological hypocrisy.” That is: atheists certainly don’t apply such a “strong” criterion to everything they believe.

And so (to provide an example) I mentioned my notorious “atomism” paper: that ruffled the feathers of scores and scores of atheists: with nary a single one at the time even understanding the nature of the satirical points I made in the article. This is what happens when one is deeply entrenched in the bubble of groupthink. If one doesn’t interact with outside critiques, they get to the point where they literally can’t even comprehend any other view. This is what atheism often does to otherwise sound minds.

I won’t get sidetracked onto why there is something rather than nothing. Why is God as a brute fact any more reasonable than the universe as a brute fact? God + universe fails Ockham’s Razor compared to the universe alone as brute fact.

He should, at some point, for his own (intellectual and spiritual) good.

These are extraordinary attributes. And why do atheists believe in them? Well, they have few ultimate reasons to explain it, but it’s the only alternative they think they have to admitting that God exists and that He created, designed, and upholds the universe. If you want to reject God: concerning Whom there are many evidences and arguments that have been rationally and seriously discussed for thousands of years, then you go instead to a blind faith position: the atom (and a larger materialism) can do anything: including creating itself from nothing (a self-evidently absurd position that science has long since rejected).

G. K. Chesterton observed”: “if men reject Christianity, it’s not that he believes in nothing, but that he believes in anything.”

Drivel and nothing to do with my point.

It relates to it in a way that I have explained, in my original reply and now.

All told, my point still stands and it would be nice to see Dave actually address it.

[EDIT: which he only decided to do, a little bit, in another comment on my thread, which I will address next.

EDIT 2: It seems like Geoff Benson came to the same conclusion.]

I have addressed his “point” and argument in the greatest depth, analyzing it from every which way, including the premises beneath it. This is now my third time doing the same thing. Eric’s arguments in Jonathan’s combox were more in-depth and of a constructive nature in terms of progressing in dialogue, in my opinion. I replied to him and Geoff in my other related dialogue. But Jonathan has essentially simply put his head in the sand and plugged his ears about the glaring faults of his own argument, and ignored virtually all of my counter-argument. This won’t do. But it’ll impress his echo chamber (as it always does).

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Photo credit: wilhei (4-13-15) [PixabayPixabay License]

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Summary: This is now my third go-around, discussing the same issue: whether God was “unfair” to give Doubting Thomas so much more “evidence” than almost everyone else. False PREMISES . . .

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2021-03-16T12:31:50-04:00

I’ve been noting this phenomenon within atheism for a long time: the “angry atheist” and the obsessions and irrational fanaticism of the anti-theist sub-group of atheism (very prominent online): whose modus operandi is to demonize and slander Christians, Christianity, and the Bible 24/7. Believe me, I know about this firsthand. Right now I’m catching hell in not just one but two threads (one / two) on the Tippling Philosopher blog (both with over 600 comments), in what I call “feeding frenzies”: all-out personal attacks and attempted collective destruction of an individual as the biggest scumbag in the history of the world.

Why?: because I dared to disagree with their political obsessions and a piece by a guy who claimed over 100 contradictions in the accounts of Jesus’ Resurrection. And (horror of horrors!) I wouldn’t shut up when I was “supposed” to. Nothing makes the anti-theist, obsessed sort of atheist (which are not all atheists, mind you) more angry than disagreeing or (worse yet) directly refuting their fallacious and fact-challenged positions.

I simply block folks on that blog as soon as they attack me [not my mere opinions] (so I haven’t even read the vast majority of the attacks against me), and I ban them on my page if they can do nothing but ad hominem, manure-slinging, bigotry, and verbal diarrhea. And of course that makes them even more angry: madder than hornets, that I have less than no interest in their juvenile attacks, and because I expose them for what they are. I’m an “uppity” Christian and conservative, you see: not knowing my place and when to shut up and be sanctimoniously lectured by my atheist and liberal overlords: all of whom know vastly more about the Bible and Christianity than I do.

So it was refreshing to run across a former blogger on the Patheos Nonreligious forum, Matthew Facciani. I happened to see a post of his, entitled, “My Final Blog Post: Reflections on the Atheist Movement.” Alas, it is no longer online, because he stopped bloging at Patheos, after five years and more than three million page views. But I found an archived copy at Internet Archive. I suspected from the title that he might make some of the same points of criticism I have been making, and sure enough, he did. Here are extensive excepts:

I also had my issues with the atheist movement. Specifically, I spent too much time countering the myth that “religion is a mental illness” and general ad hominem attacks on theists. Despite meeting plenty of smug atheists, my time in “the movement” has taught me that atheists can be just as irrational as any other group. I’ve also been vocal about my issues with the sexism and racism in the atheist/skeptic movement as well. The atheist movement has been dominated by older, white, cishet men. And this large, homogenous section of the movement has had a pretty narrow and stale approach to social issues (while also holding many leadership positions).  After Trump got elected in 2016, I lost a lot of interest in this movement as there seemed to be many more pressing issues than debating theists and petty arguments in the atheist blogosphere. I wasn’t alone in this sentiment as many of my atheist activist friends also moved on to other elements of political & social justice activism.

In addition to being tired of spending so much energy in “the movement,” I also just became tired of regular blog writing in this particular format. Writing a blog made it very clear which topics become the most popular: current events that evoke negative emotion. A path for writing popular blogs is to write about topics that will galvanize a particular group of people.  For atheists and progressives, this usually means sharing the rage inducing things that Trump and other conservatives/theocrats did. While it’s important to cover these topics, I also find it pretty unfulfilling and emotionally draining. Too much online media encourages anger and sensationalism because of the current click-based incentive structure. I really didn’t want to contribute to that type of rage-click-motivated ecosystem anymore. I’ll refrain from going on too much of a rant about my concerns regarding online media, but I’ll just say that it is unfortunate how strongly ad revenue & clicks drives our information ecosystem.

Well-said! I am sad to see Matthew leave Patheos, because he would have continued to be one of the voices for rational sanity in the atheist sector. But I can only dimly imagine (from my own experience as an outside critic) the living hell he must have gone through if he attempted to make any internal criticisms of the anti-theist atheists.

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Photo credit: gregkorg (4-21-18) [PixabayPixabay License]

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Summary: Atheist Matthew Facciani. wrote a post, “My Final Blog Post: Reflections on the Atheist Movement.” He made many of the same points of criticism I have made against the widespread “angry” demeanor of online atheists for over twenty years now.

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2021-02-23T12:13:47-04:00

Archaeological, Prophetic, and Manuscript Evidences

The Bible has been abused, criticized and scorned more than any other book in history. Many attack it in order to undermine and destroy the basis of Christianity, the perpetuation of which is so annoying to them. The notion of an ancient collection at writings concerning God and morality exercising influence over “enlightened” 21st century man is absolutely repugnant to many people today, especially intellectuals.

Very well then; emotionalism aside, let’s examine some of the reasons why intelligent, educated persons continue to accept the Bible on its own terms today. Is there a rational, logical basis for such a belief? The answer is most assuredly and unashamedly, yes, and there exists very strong indications that the Bible is nothing less than the Word of God.

Once the many evidences are examined, the skeptical view of Scripture: that it is mythological, filled with contradictions, inaccuracies, and unacceptable, “primitive” ideas, that God had no hand in it, etc., are left devoid of any foundation. Arguably, there are a few contradictions and “problem passages” to be found, but these are very minor and insubstantial next to the overwhelming indications of divine authorship, and can be largely (if not totally) attributed to early copying errors.

Before continuing, I wish to appeal to intellectual fairness and open-mindedness. If what I present is truly reasonable proof, it is hoped that the reader would accept it as any other evidence. Many reject such arguments because of the moral implications inherent in the acceptance of the Bible. This moral element puts the discussion on different ground, which is why people tend to be either vehemently for or against the Bible.

The claim to divine inspiration pervades the Bible throughout. This, of course, does not prove anything in and of itself but it is a logical starting-point for our analysis. 2 Timothy 3:16 says: “All scripture is God-breathed.” 2 Peter 1:20-21: “For no prophecy recorded in scripture was ever thought up by the prophet himself. It vas the Holy Spirit within these godly men who gave them true messages from God.” Jesus states in Matthew 5:18: “As long as heaven and earth last, the least point or the smallest detail of the Law will not be done away with.” Isaiah: 40:8 declares: “The Word of our God endures forever.” There are many other such statements. At least 3800 times in the Old Testament, “The Lord says” or a similar expression occurs.

Clearly, then, the Bible presents itself as God’s Word, or Revelation, given to us for our benefit. Jesus quoted from many Old Testament books as if they were completely authoritative, including Genesis. He said in John 10:35 that “Scripture cannot be untrue”, and appealed to fulfilled prophecy repeatedly to substantiate His claims to deity. Now, obviously if one believes that Jesus was God, then one must agree with His view of the Bible. But this is a relatively weak argument for the skeptic.

The total unity and internal consistency of the teachings of the Bible is a strong argument for an ultimate divine authorship, when it is considered that over forty people wrote the Bible over a period of about 1500 years. They were from different cultures and eras, spoke different languages and had widely divergent personalities, backgrounds, occupations, and writing styles.

This argument may appear simplistic but if one asked forty people of similar characteristics to write a one-page essay on a simple subject, I submit that the result would be a chaotic mishmash. One must then explain how the Bible can be so consistent. The more one reads the Bible, the more evident this is.

Someone might sincerely ask, “But how can we know that the Bible hasn’t been distorted or changed in all those centuries?” This legitimate concern can be shown to be groundless. In quality, age, and quantity of manuscripts, the Bible far exceeds all other ancient writings and even many of comparatively recent origin, such as Shakespeare. Sir Frederic G. Kenyon, who was the director of the British Museum and perhaps the foremost authority on manuscripts in his day, said this about the Bible:

The last foundation for any doubt that the scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. The authenticity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established. (The Bible and Archaeology, New York: Harper and Row, 1940, 288)

No fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith rests on a disputed reading. It cannot be too strongly asserted that in substance the text of the Bible is certain; especially this is the case with the New Testament. Scholars are satisfied that they possess substantially the true text of the principal Greek and Roman writers whose works have come down to us, yet our knowledge of their writings depends on a mere handful of manuscripts, whereas those of the New Testament are counted by the thousands. (Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, New York: Harper Bros., 1941, 23)

To illustrate, let’s compare the manuscript evidence:

Author       Date Written     Earliest copy   Number of  Copies

Caesar                  100-44 B.C.             900 A.D.                10

Tacitus (Annals)  100 A.D.                 1100 A.D.               20

Pliny the Younger

(History)              61-113 A.D.             850 A.D.                7

Suetonius

(Life of Caesar)   75-160 A.D.             950 A.D.                8

Thucydides

(History)              460-400 B.C.           900 A.D.                8

Aristotle              384-322 B.C.          1100 A.D       49 of any one

Homer (Iliad)      900 B.C.                   400 B.C.               643

(next highest manuscript total)

New Testament  40-100 A.D.            125 A.D.          over 24,000

The discovery or the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947 greatly solidified the certainty or our present Old Testament text. For example, a complete scroll of Isaiah was found and dated at 125 B.C. The previous oldest extant manuscript was from 916 A.D. In comparing the two it was found that they were word-for-word identical in more than 95% of the text. The variations consisted chiefly of slips of the pen and different spellings. The Hebrews meticulously copied their sacred writings with great care, believing that God would punish them if they changed the writings in the least. The ancient Hebrews had scribes whose sole occupation was to check and recheck the Holy Scriptures for accuracy.

Now let’s consider the findings of historical research and archaeology — fields of study which overwhelmingly support the Bible. Concerning the “Table of Nations” in Genesis 10, William F. Albright, the great biblical archaeologist states:

It stands absolutely alone in ancient literature without a remote parallel even among the Greeks and remains an astonishingly accurate document. It shows such remarkably ‘modern’ understanding of the ethnic and linguistic situation in the modern world, in spite of all its complexity, that scholars never fail to be impressed with the author’s  knowledge of the subject. (Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands, New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1955, 70 ff.)

Sir William Ramsay, regarded as one of the greatest archaeologists who ever lived, used to be a skeptic of the Bible until he studied Luke’s writings (Luke and Acts). He was forced to revise his views. What did he conclude after thirty years of study?:

Luke is an historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy, but this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians. (The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1953, 222)

Countless instances of Bible accuracy could be cited. Many modern philologists attest to the likelihood of a common origin of all languages (Tower of Babel story, Genesis 11). The excavations at Jericho amazingly supported the biblical account. The walls fell outward, an exceedingly rare occurrence.

But even these startling results of research, which may point to, but don’t prove divine authorship, are nothing compared to the extraordinary confirmation of fulfilled prophecy. It has been proven again and again that the Bible accurately foretold future events hundreds, and sometimes thousands at years before they took place, often in fairly minute detail. One might logically

conclude that only a Being Who somehow knew the future could have done such a thing. No human has ever remotely approached the marvelous predictive record at the biblical prophets. Astrology is an utter farce in comparison.

One of the most incredible predictions was of the destruction and subsequent history of Babylon. They were written by Isaiah (8th cent. B.C.) and Jeremiah (626-586 B.C.) and are recorded in Isaiah 13:19-22 and 14:23, and in Jeremiah 51:26,43. Babylon was probably the greatest city in the world at its height: the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. It was 196 square miles in area, with walls that were 311 feet high and 87 feet wide, with 100 solid brass gates and 250 watchtowers, which were 400 feet high. Some of the details mentioned in the prophecies were that wild animals would live there, the stones would not be removed, and that swamps would cover the site.

All of this happened, of course. The fulfillment began in 539 B.C. when the Persians, under Cyrus, conquered Babylon without a fight by diverting the Euphrates river, which ran through the city, and marching under the walls during an annual feast. It rapidly decayed after that and no one ever lived there again.

Hundreds of fulfillments equally notable have taken pace. One need only read the Bible and then compare it to subsequent history. The dating of the prophecies before the events is beyond all dispute, even by the latest, most liberal calculations. Some other prophecies concern Tyre (an especially noteworthy one — Ezekiel 26:3-21), Samaria (Hosea 13:16 and Micah 1:6), Petra and Edom (Isaiah 34:6-15, Jeremiah 49:17-18, Ezekiel 25:13-14 and 35:5-7), Nineveh (Nahum 1:8-10 2:6, 3:10, 13, 19), Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum (Matthew 11:20-24).

And then there are the scores of prophecies which were fulfilled in the life of Jesus, many of which He could not possibly have faked. The apostles, in the New Testament, often appeal to messianic promises and fulfilled prophecies as evidence of the Messiahship and Divinity of Jesus Christ (e.g., Mt 2:4-6, Rom 1:2-4, Acts 3:18, 10:43, 13:29, 17:2-3, 1 Cor 15:3-4, 1 Pet 2:5-6):

1) Born of a Virgin: Is 7:14 w/ Mt 1:18, 24-25, Lk 1:26-35.

2) From the Tribe of Judah: Gen 49:10, Mic 5:2 w/ Mt 1:2, Lk 3:23, 33.

3) From the Family Line of Jesse: Is 11:1,10 w/ Mt 1:6, Lk 3:23, 32.

4) From the House of David: Ps 132:11, Jer 23:5 w/ Mt 1:1, Lk 3:23, 31.

5) Born in Bethlehem: Mic 5:2 w/ Mt 2:1,4-8, Lk 2:4-7.

6) Called Son of God: Ps 2:7 w/ Mt 3:17.

7) Called Lord: Ps 110:1, Jer 23:6 w/ Mt 22:43-45, Lk 2:11.

8) Called Immanuel (God With Us): Is 7:14 w/ Mt 1:23.

9) A Prophet: Deut 18:18 w/ Mt 21:11, Lk 7:16, Jn 7:40.

10) Judge: Is 33:22 w/ Jn 5:30.

11) King: Ps 2:6 w/ Mt 21:5, Jn 18:36-37.

12) Special Anointing of the Spirit: Is 11:2 w/ Mt 3:16-17.

13) Preceded by a Messenger: Is 40:3, Mal 3:1 w/ Mt 3:1-3, 11:10, Lk 1:17, Jn 1:23.

14) Galilee Ministry: Is 9:1 w/ Mt 4:12-13, 17.

15) Ministry of Miracles: Is 32:3-4, 35:5-6 w/ Mt 9:32-35.

16) Teacher of Parables: Ps 78:2 w/ Mt 13:34.

17) Triumphal Entry Into Jerusalem: Zech 9:9 w/ Mt 21:5-10,15-16.

18) Messiah to Come Before Jerusalem’s Destruction (70 A.D.): Gen 49:10 w/ Mt 24:1-2.

19) Messiah Will Come to the Temple (Had to be Before 70): Ps 118:26, Dan 9:26, Hag 2:7-9, Zech 11:13, Mal 3:1 w/ Mt 21:12, Jn 2:13-17.

20) Entered Jerusalem on a Donkey: Zech 9:9 w/ Lk 19:35-37.

21) “Stone of Stumbling”: Ps 118:22, Is 8:13-14, 28:16 w/ Acts 4:10-11, Rom 9:32-33, 1 Pet 2:7-8.

22) Rejected by His Own People: Is 53:3 w/ Jn 1:11, 7:5,48.

23) Hated Without a Cause: Ps 69:4, Is 49:7 w/ Jn 15:25.

24) Resurrection: Ps 16:10, 30:3, 41:10, 118:17, Hos 6:2 w/ Acts 2:31, 13:33, Mt 28:6, Mk 16:6, Lk 24:46.

25) Ascension: Ps 68:18 w/ Acts 1:9.

26) Right Hand of God: Ps 110:1 w/ Heb 1:3, Acts 2:34-35.

The following 24 prophecies were literally fulfilled by Jesus in one 24-hour period of time:

27) Betrayed by a Friend: Ps 41:9, 55:12-14 w/ Mt 10:4.

28) Betrayed For 30 Pieces of Silver: Zec 11:12 w/ Mt 26:15.

29) Silver Thrown in God’s House: Zech 11:13 w/ Mt 27:5.

30) The Potter’s Field: Zech 11:13 w/ Mt 27:7.

31) Forsaken by Disciples: Zech 13:7 w/ Mt 26:31, Mk 14:50.

32) Silent Before Accusers: Is 53:7 w/ Mt 27:12.

33) Wounded and Bruised: Is 53:5, Zech 13:6 w/ Mt 27:26.

34) Beaten: Is 50:6, Mic 5:1 w/ Mt 26:67, Lk 22:63.

35) Spit Upon: Is 50:6 w/ Mt 26:67.

36) Mocked: Ps 22:7-8 w/ Mt 27:31.

37) Hands and Feet Pierced: Ps 22:16, Zec 12:10 w/ Lk 23:33.

38) Messiah Was to Die: Is 53:8, Dan 9:26 w/ Lk 23:46, 24:7, Jn 19:30.

39) Executed With Criminals: Is 53:12 w/ Mt 27:38.

40) Prayed For His Persecutors: Is 53:12 w/ Lk 23:34.

41) People Wagging Their Heads: Ps 22:7 w/ Mt 27:39.

42) Stared Upon: Ps 22:17 w/ Lk 23:35.

43) Garments Parted: Ps 22:18 w/ Jn 19:23.

44) Garments Gambled For: Ps 22:18 w/ Jn 19:24.

45) Offered Vinegar and Gall: Ps 69:21 w/ Mt 27:34,Jn 19:29.

46) Forsaken Cry: Ps 22:1 w/ Mt 27:46.

47) Bones Not Broken: Ps 34:20 w/ Jn 19:33.

48) Side Pierced: Zech 12:10 w/ Jn 19:34.

49) Darkness at Noon: Amos 8:9 w/ Mt 27:45.

50) Buried in Rich Man’s Tomb: Is 53:9 w/ Mt 27:57-60.

God proclaimed: “Long ago I predicted what would take place, then suddenly I made it happen” (Isaiah 48:3).  Skeptics must explain all of the above evidence in a way that entirely excludes God.

William F. Albright is generally considered the greatest biblical archaeologist. Here is a scholar who authored more than 800 publications and received thirty honorary degrees, including From Harvard, Yale, St. Andrews, and Hebrew University (Jerusalem). He was a Professor of Semitic Languages at Johns Hopkins University from 1929-1958 and staff-member and director of the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem. Albright had this to say about the Old Testament:

Thanks to modern research we now recognize its substantial historicity. The narratives of the patriarchs, of Moses and the exodus, of the conquest of Canaan, of the judges, the monarchy exile and restoration, have all been confirmed and illustrated to an extent that I should have thought impossible forty years ago. (Christian Century, 19 November 1958, 1329)

Let’s proceed now to examine individual examples of this accuracy:

The “Table of Nations” — Genesis 10

The following names from this astonishing geographical record of ancient peoples have been found on archaeological monuments:

Tubal (Gen 10:2)

Meshech (10:2)

Ashkenaz (10:3)

Togarmah (10:3)

Elishah (10:4)

Tarshish (10:4)

Cush (10:6)

Put (10:6)

Dedan (10:7)

Accad (10:10)

Shinar (11:2)

Abraham’s Times

Practically all the cities and towns mentioned in connection with Abraham, such as Shechem (12:6), Ai, and Bethel (12:8), have been discovered, excavated, and dated to his time (c. 2000-1850 B.C.). Excavations at Mari on the Middle Euphrates river since 1933 have unearthed thousands of cuneiform tablets dating mostly from about 1700 B.C. which throw direct light on the background of Patriarchal traditions in Genesis. The cities of Nahor (24:10) and Harran (11:31,28:10) turn up frequently in the documents, as well as Arioch, a prince in Gen. 14:1, and the tribal name of Benjamin (35:24, 49:27-28) (see Albright, “The Bible After 20 Years of Archaeology,” Religion in Life, vol. 21, 1952, 537-550; 538-542).

At Nuzi (or Nuzu), located southeast of Nineveh in Iraq, a whole archive of legal and social texts were discovered from 1925-1931, which parallel Genesis accounts. The Nuzians were the biblical Horites (14:6, 36:21) and they flourished in the 16th-15th c. B.C. In Genesis we find accounts of barren wives who ask their husbands to produce a child by their maid servants. Sarah, Abraham’s wife, and Rachel and Leah, Jacob’s two wives, did this (16:2, 30:1-3, 9-10). This custom only appears in the patriarchal age and is found in the Nuzi tablets. (see C. H. Gordon,  “The Patriarchal Age,” Journal of Bible and Religion, vol. 21, 4, Oct. 1955, 241).

Abraham’s Travels

Abraham’s migration from Ur of the Chaldees to Canaan (11:31) has been disputed on the grounds that extensive travel was unknown in his time. At Mari, however a tablet was found which indicates much travel between these lands. It was a wagon contract stipulating that the wagon was not to be driven to Kittim (by the Mediterranean Sea). (see Fred H. Wight, Highlights of Archaeology in Bible Lands, Chicago: Moody Press, 1955, 61-62).

Abraham’s journey to Egypt was also doubted (see Gen. 12:14) based on writings of 1st century A.D. historians Strabo and Diodorus, who said that Egypt prohibited foreigners at that time. But a tomb painting at Beni Hassan, dated c. 2000 B.C. showed Asiatic Semites in Egypt. (see Joseph P. Free, Archaeology and Bible History, Wheaton, Illinois Scripture Press, 1969, 54-55) 

Abraham’s Military Expedition (Genesis 14)

This narrative was long criticized as fictitious. Julius Wellhausen, king of the 19th century “higher critics” of the Bible, thought it was “historically unreliable” and indeed “impossible.” The crucial evidence is described by respected scholar Millar Burrows, Chairman of the Dept. of Near Eastern Languages and Literature at Yale:

According to the 14th chapter of Genesis, eastern Palestine was invaded by a coalition of kings in the time of Abraham. The route taken by the invading armies led from the region of Damascus southward along the edge of Gilead and Moab. The explorations of Albright and Glueck have shown that there was a line of important cities along this route before 2000 B.C. and for a century or two thereafter, but not in later periods. (Millar Burrows, What Mean These Stones?, New York: Meridian Books, 1957, 71)

Isaac’s Oral Blessing  (Genesis 2)

It seems most unusual to us that Isaac didn’t revoke his oral blessing to Jacob after he discovered the latter’s deception. But tablets at Nuzi, which was a contemporaneous and similar culture, tell us that such oral decrees were perfectly legal and binding and irrevocable. In other words, spoken proclamations in these ancient cultures carried at least as much weight as our written documents. (see Cyrus H. Gordon, “Biblical Customs and the Nuzu Tablets,” The Biblical Archaeologist, vol. 3, no. 1, Feb. 1940, 1-12. p. 8).

Joseph’s Tomb

Joseph told his relatives to take his bones to Shechem in Canaan (Gen 50:25, Joshua 24:32). In the 1950’s, the tomb reverenced as Joseph’s was opened and was found to contain a body mummified according to Egyptian custom, with a sword of the kind worn by Egyptian officials (see Gen 41:38-44). (see John Elder, Prophets, Idols, and Diggers, New York: Bobbs-Merrill Co., 1960, 54).

The Hittites

This nation, apparently the ancestors of present-day Armenians, are often mentioned in the Bible (e.g., Gen 23:10, 26:34, 50:13, Joshua 11:3, 1 Kings 15:5). No other records of the Hittites were known until recently, so, as always, their existence was doubted, since, in fashionable post-Enlightenment parlance, all intelligent people “knew” that the Bible was filled with myths and legends, and couldn’t be trusted for such things.

This state of affairs also applied to Babylon and Nineveh, the seats of two great ancient empires, until archaeology uncovered them as well. After the distinguished Oxford Assyriologist A.H. Sayce identified them from archaeological finds in 1892, and excavations at Boghaz-Koi in central Turkey (the Hittite capital) were undertaken in 1906, all doubt was removed — the Bible was correct again. (see Albright, Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands, New York: Funk & Wagnall, 1955, 53; Wight, ibid., 94-95; Elder, ibid., 75). In light of the discoveries above, and others like them, W.A. Irwin observed in 1953 that:

An extreme skepticism in regard to the patriarchal stories has given place to the recognition that they preserve valid reminiscences of historic movements and social conditions. (“The Modern Approach to the Old Testament,” Journal of Bible and Religion, vol. 21, 1953, 14)

Moses and Writing

It used to be casually and self-confidently asserted that writing wasn’t developed enough among the Hebrews in Moses’ time (15th-13th cents. B.C.) for him to have written the Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible). This is now known to be untrue. Writing dates from about 3000 B.C. among the Sumerians, 2900 B.C. among the Egyptians, etc. As for the Semites, Albright observed that:

Writing was well known in Palestine and Syria throughout the Patriarchal Age. No fewer than five scripts are known to have been in use. (“Archaeology Confronts Biblical Criticism,” American Scholar, vol. 7, Spring 1938, 186)

Proto-Semitic alphabetic writing was found in Canaanite inscriptions at (of all places) Mt. Sinai in 1907 by the famous British archaeologist Sir Flinders Petrie. These were dated to before 1500 B.C. and thus precede Moses. (see Albright, The Archaeology of Palestine, Baltimore: Penguin Books, revised, 1960, 187; Sigfried H. Horn, “Recent Illumination of the Old Testament,” Christianity Today, vol. 12, no. 19, June 21, 1968, 14)

The Laws of Moses

True to form, the “higher critics” also held that the laws of Moses were too advanced for his time, until the famous Code of Hammurabi (18th cent. B.C.) was discovered in 1901. This Babylonian monument contains 282 laws, some of which were similar to biblical laws.

Hittite Suzerainty Treaties of the 14th-13th Centuries B.C.

A suzerain is an emperor, not a king among equals, but a sovereign ruler, over all. These treaties, an early form of international law, were established between victorious Near Eastern kings and their vanquished subjects. They show remarkable similarities to forms of the Mosaic Covenant, most particularly with the book of Deuteronomy. The Hebrew God was also perceived as a “King of kings and Lord of lords.”

Thus the cultural context of the Israelite Covenant — formerly thought to be that of isolated, backward, nomadic desert tribal society –, is seen to be sophisticated international law. Jews and Christians have no difficulty believing that God reveals himself in accordance with prevailing culture (e.g., the many biblical references to “sheep and shepherds,” etc.). The texts of these Hittite treaties almost invariably follow a particular pattern:

  1. Preamble;
  2. Historical prologue;
  3. Stipulations;
  4. Deposition of copy and public reading;
  5. Witnesses;
  6. Curses and blessings.

This form holds only for the above historical period, and not before or after. The book of Deuteronomy, which is even today routinely dated at 621 B.C. (in denial of Mosaic authorship, of course), interestingly follows the same pattern as Middle Bronze Age treaties:

  1. Chapter 1:1-5;
  2. 1:6-3:29;
  3. Chapters 4-11 (basic), 12-26 (detailed);
  4. 31:9,24-26 / 31:10-12;
  5. 31:16-30, 32:1-47;
  6. 28:1-14 (blessings), 28: 5-68 (curses).

This is strong evidence of the Mosaic authorship of Deuteronomy, and by implication, the whole Pentateuch, provided one is free from philosophical presuppositional biases. If Deuteronomy and other covenant passages like it only took fixed literary forms from the 9th-6th centuries B.C. or later, according to the prevailing “Documentary Theory” of the Bible, then we must ask why the writers could so closely follow legal forms which had fallen out of use hundreds of years earlier, rather than those of their alleged much later date.

Image Worship and Idolatry

The Second Commandment prohibits image worship (Exodus 20:4, 34:17). The antiquity of this law (13th cent. B.C.) is authenticated by excavations in Israel. Not a single figure of Yahweh/Jehovah has been found yet. At Megiddo, for example, five town levels have been excavated and there is no trace of such images. (see Elder, ibid., 116-118)

The Exodus

Bible scholar Merrill Unger describes opinions on the Exodus:

Israel’s exit from Egypt as outlined in the Biblical narrative formerly excited a great deal of skepticism and debate among scholars. Many contended that the route described in the Book of Exodus was impossible, and that the Exodus itself was, accordingly, legendary or at least historically unreliable . . . the ranks of the skeptics have been seriously depleted by the recantation of their most distinguished representative, the celebrated Egyptologist, Alan Gardner. (Archaeology and the Old Testament, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1954, 136)

Albright maintained that the Bible’s account of the Exodus was “substantially historical.” (see The Archaeology of Palestine, Baltimore: Penguin Books, revised, 1960, 237)

The Tabernacle (Exodus 25-27)

The accounts of the building and use of this portable sanctuary have been dated in the post-exilic Jewish period (after 586 B.C.), rather than from Moses’ time, due to the alleged impossibility of the appropriate level of craftsmanship in the 13th century B.C. But archaeology has discovered several remarkable Egyptian portable structures just as elaborate as the Tabernacle, such as the bed canopy of Queen Hetepheres I, mother of Cheops, who built the Great Pyramid (c. 2600 B.C.). (see Kenneth A. Kitchen, “Some Egyptian Background to the Old Testament,” The Tyndale House Bulletin, nos. 5 & 6, 1960, 9-13; G. A. Reisner and W. S. Smith, A History of the Giza Necropolis, vol. 2, Harvard Univ. Press, 1955, 13-17)

The Conquest of Canaan (Joshua 6-12)

This military campaign, led by Joshua, Moses’ successor, has been doubted by many “higher critics” of the Bible, who thought that the Hebrews assimilated slowly and fairly peacefully into Canaanite culture. Archaeology teaches otherwise (the pattern is becoming very familiar by now). Excavation at Jericho, Lachish, Debir, Ai and Hazor reveals that they were destroyed at about the same time (see Joshua 6:24; 8:18-19; 10:32,38-39; 11:11-13), whereas excavation at Bethshan, Taanach and Megiddo shows that these cities were not destroyed with the others (see Joshua 17:11). Also, it is now confirmed that only Jericho, Ai and Hazor were burned, as the Bible states.

Archaeologists disagree on the exact dates, based on different interpretations of dating techniques, but they are agreed on the simultaneity of destruction, and that there was indeed a conquest. (see Albright, From the Stone Age to Christianity, Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1940., 212; Paul W. Lapp, Biblical Archaeology and History, New York: World Pub., 1969., 107-111; Joseph P. Free, Archaeology and Bible History, Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press, 1969, 136, 237).

The Lachish Letters

Letters found in the Palestinian city of Lachish in 1935-38 substantiate the accuracy of the book of Jeremiah. The artifacts were written in classical Hebrew, and were dated at 588 B.C. They cast light on Jeremiah 34:6-7, which states that Lachish and Azekah were the last two remaining fortified cities in Judah after Nebuchadnezzar’s invasion. One was written by an officer at a military outpost; he says: “We are watching for the signals of Lachish . . . we cannot see Azekah.”

The atmosphere of the letters reflects the worry and disorder of a besieged country. We know from other sources of history that Jerusalem was, in fact, under attack at this time, and fell in 587-86 B.C. The letters also mention the name “Jeremiah” and refer to “the prophet.” Several other names show up which appear in the Old Testament only in the time of Jeremiah (who predicted the destruction of Judah far in advance, hence his title, “the weeping prophet”). (see Millar Burrows, What Mean These Stones?, New York: Meridian Books, 1957, 107; Elder, ibid., 108-109; Free, Archaeology and Bible History, Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press, 1969, 222-223).

King Jehoiachin in Babylon

This king of Judah was taken captive to Babylonia (c. 597 B.C.) for 37 years, according to 2 Kings 24:10-16 and 25:27-30. Cuneiform tablets discovered in Babylon and dated 595-570, contained a ration list including “Jehoiachin King of Judah” and five Jewish royal princes. Also, a Babylonian jar handle found near Jerusalem mentioned “Jaazaniah, servant of the King” (see 2 Kings 25:23 and Jer 40:8). Another bears the inscription, “To Gedaliah who is over the house” (see 2 Kings 25:22-26 and Jer 40:5). These are dated at about 598-587.

All of these archaeological discoveries increase the credibility of Bible narratives; in this case the reliability of the unknown author of 2 Kings and the prophet Jeremiah. (see Albright, The Biblical Period from Abraham to Ezra, New York: Harper and Row, 1963, 85; Jack Finegan, Light From the Ancient Past, London: Oxford Press, 1946, 188)

Cyrus the Great of Persia

Cyrus, King of the Persian Empire, which succeeded the Babylonian Empire after the capture of Babylon in 539 B.C., allowed the captured Jews to return to Israel (538 B.C.), according to 2 Chronicles 36:22-23 and Ezra 1:1-4. This had been disputed (is there anything that hasn’t been?) by biblical critics. But physical evidence once again triumphed over the myopic hypotheses of hypercriticism. A cylinder was found with a decree by the tolerant King Cyrus stating: “All of their peoples I assembled and restored to their own dwelling-places.” The Bible was vindicated once again from the ever-present scalpel of the “higher critics.” (see Finegan, ibid., 191; Free, ibid., 237)

Conclusion

Many more examples could be produced in order to further substantiate the above conclusion. It is hoped, however, that the reader has attained a level of respect for the Bible commensurate with the massive amount of authentication it has received from the spade of archaeology, thus rendering additional proofs unnecessary and superfluous. Millar Burrows of Yale has penned a concise summary of the historical accuracy of this remarkable collection of books revered by Christians and Jews as the Word of God:

The Bible is supported by archaeological evidence again and again. On the whole, there can be no question that the results of excavation have increased the respect of scholars for the Bible as a collection of historical documents The fact that the record can be so often explained or illustrated by archaeological data shows that it fits into the framework of history as only a genuine product of ancient life could do We find the record verified repeatedly at specific points. Names of places and persons turn up at the right places and in the right periods. (“How Archaeology Helps the Student of the Bible,” Workers with Youth, April 1948, 6)

William F. Albright fully concurs, and I will close with three of his striking proclamations:

Archaeological and inscriptional data have established the historicity of innumerable passages and statements of the Old Testament. (“Archaeology Confronts Biblical Criticism,” American Scholar, vol. 7, Spring 1938, 181)

We may rest assured that the consonantal text of the Hebrew Bible, though not infallible, has been preserved with an accuracy perhaps unparalleled in any other Near-Eastern literature. (“The Old Testament and the Archaeology of Palestine,” in Harold H. Rowley, editor, Old Testament and Modern Study, Oxford Univ. Press, 1951, 25)

We must treat the consonantal text of the Hebrew Bible with the utmost respect . . . the free emending of difficult passages in which modern critical scholars have indulged cannot be tolerated any longer. (Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands, New York: Funk & Wagnall, 1955, 128)

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Photo credit: charlotte_202003 (12-1-17) [PixabayPixabay License]

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Summary: Are there reasons why intelligent, educated persons continue to adhere to biblical inspiration? Is there a rational basis for such a belief? I provide many such (and varied) reasons.

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2021-02-12T11:10:38-04:00

“The Gospel According to Saint Luke” was written by atheist Vexen Crabtree in 2016. I will examine his “anti-biblical” arguments to see if they can withstand criticism. Vexen’s words will be in blue.

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It might be that the character of Luke was based on an old Roman pagan story about the healing God, Lykos, from Greek culture, and hence why the text was given the name Luke

Right-o! I can relate to this, I guess. My name is David, which is based on a King (David), from Hebrew culture. Therefore, I’m not who I am, since I am merely given a title from a mythical Hercules- or Odysseus-like hero who supposedly lived 3,000 years ago.

Out of Mark, 54% is quoted in Luke, and there are a hundred or so versus that, along with Matthew, he took from the source known as ‘Q’. It is surprising that a first-hand eyewitness of Jesus would need to copy so much of other people’s text about Jesus.

Of course, St. Luke never claimed to be an eyewitness of Jesus, so this “point” is completely moot. Luke makes it clear at the beginning of his Gospel that he was not an eyewitness:

Luke 1:1-2 (RSV)  Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, [2] just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word,

He didn’t claim to see the risen Jesus, either (see Acts 1:2-3).

Luke contradicts the rest of the Bible on quite a few points of theology and gets many elements of Jesus’ life simply wrong (for example, the Roman-decreed census that never actually happened). For these reasons Luke is best not considered trustworthy.

The one who is untrustworthy is Mr. Crabtree (after the ridiculous contention above): projection if there ever was a case. Luke’s trustworthiness has been confirmed again and again by archaeology, and he was an excellent and accurate historian. See:

Archaeology and the Historical Reliability of the New Testament (Peter S. Williams)

Archaeology and the New Testament (Patrick Zukeran)

Archeology Helps to Confirm the Historicity of the Bible (Sheri Bell)

A Brief Sample of Archaeology Corroborating the Claims of the New Testament (J. Warner Wallace)

The Bible and Archaeology: The Book of Acts—The Church Begins (Mario Seiglie)

Archaeology and the New Testament (Kyle Butt)

Luke also made up the detail of the Romans instigating a census and sending people to the home towns of remote ancestors. This was not Roman policy, and although a local census did occur under Governor Quirinius it happened in 6CE, many years after Herod’s death.

For the question of the census, see:

The Census, Jesus’ Birth in Bethlehem, & History: Reply to Atheist John W. Loftus’ Irrational Criticisms of the Biblical Accounts [2-3-11]

Reply to Atheist Jonathan MS Pearce: Herod’s Death & Alleged “Contradictions” (with Jimmy Akin) [7-25-17]

1. Moral Issues

Luke 11:27-28 is dismissive of the value of motherhood, contradicting Exodus 20:1-2 and Deut. 5:1-23 which says to honour thy father and mother as part of the 10 Commandments.

Luke 11:27-28 As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!” [28] But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

The claim is nonsense, once the passage is properly understood (which atheists never seem to have the time to even try to do). I wrote an entire article about this passage:

Did Jesus Deny That Mary Was “Blessed” (Lk 11:27-28)? [11-19-19]

I have dealt with this (rather irritating) “Jesus was mean / disrespectful / indifferent to Mary” theme in two other articles also:

Jesus’ Interactions with Mary in Relation to Marian Veneration [10-29-08]

“Who is My Mother?”: Beginning of “Familial Church” [8-26-19]

See also: Jesus’ Use of the Term “Woman” [for Mary. Was it Disrespectful?] (by Jimmy Akin)

One easy way to show that Jesus’ [and/or Luke’s] intent was not at all to be “dismissive of the value of motherhood” is to look at some of the translations of the passage that bring out the meaning in a more accurate way:

NKJV But He said, More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Phillips But Jesus replied, “Yes, but a far greater blessing to hear the word of God and obey it.”

Living Bible He replied, “Yes, but even more blessed are all who hear the Word of God and put it into practice.”

CEV Jesus replied, “That’s true, but the people who are really blessed are the ones who hear and obey God’s message!”

Williams But He said, “Yes, but better still, blessed are those who listen to God’s message and practice it!”

Jerusalem Bible But he replied, “Still happier those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

It’s not a matter of “either/or” or of pitting the blessedness of His mother Mary against something else. He agrees with the point and goes on to make it wider in application, to include others as well (typical biblical and Hebraic “both/and” thinking).

Luke 12:47-48 says something about it being right to punish and beat slaves.

Luke 12:47-48 And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating.[48] But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.

The Bible also talks about lovingly correcting children through spankings, etc.:

Proverbs 13:24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. If you beat him with the rod you will save his life from Sheol.

Proverbs 29:15, 17 The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. . . . Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart.

That’s an entire issue unto itself (that would take far too long to address in this “101 atheist objections” context). I have dealt with it twice (one / two). The issue of slavery and the Bible is even more complex and multi-faceted. I’ve addressed that twice at length, too (one / two).

Luke 12:51-53 says Jesus has not come to bring peace but a sword, and has come to divide families, backed up by Luke 18:29 where Jesus says that those who have left relatives behind for Christ’s sake will find great rewards in their current life and in the afterlife. So much for family life.

This is another groundless objection, based on ignorance of Hebrew metaphor and exaggeration (hyperbole) to make a point. See:

Dr. David Madison vs. Jesus #1: Hating One’s Family? [8-1-19]

Madison vs. Jesus #4: Jesus Causes a Bad Marriage? [8-5-19]

Madison vs. Jesus #5: Cultlike Forsaking of Family? [8-5-19]

David Madison vs. the Gospel of Mark #9: Chapter 10 (Christian Biblical Ignorance / Jesus vs. Marriage & Family? / Divinity of Jesus) [8-20-19]

Seidensticker Folly #50: Mary Thought Jesus Was Crazy? (And Does the Gospel of Mark Radically Differ from the Other Gospels in the “Family vs. Following Jesus” Aspect?) [9-8-20]

2. Contradictions and Mistakes

The Gospel of Luke amasses quite a series of theological contradictions and historical mistakes

So he falsely claims . . .

For example, Luke argues against the virgin birth of Matthew 1:22-23 and goes to inane length to prove that Jesus is descended biologically from the male line of David (Luke 3:23-38).

It doesn’t follow that he is denying the virgin birth here. Joseph was Jesus’ legal father in terms of Jewish law, whether He was His biological father or not. See:

Reply to Atheist Jonathan MS Pearce: “Contradictory” Genealogies of Christ? [7-27-17]

He manages to contradict himself as a result of stating that Mary conceived Jesus whilst a virgin – although historians note that the oldest versions of Luke did not include the statements of virgin birth as now found in Luke 2:33 and Luke 2:48 (although some Bibles have now restored the original version in their translations). 

There is no contradiction in these passages. It’s just yet more atheist hyper-skepticism based on groundless, evidence-free foregone conclusions and ultra-bias.

All of Luke’s insertions about singing angels, barns and mangers are not mentioned in Matthew’s version of the story and it is hard to see how others would not mention them if they happened. Luke simply didn’t know his facts when it came to Jesus’ birth.

No one is obliged to include every detail. It’s a very weak (indeed logically fallacious) argument to assert that “earlier text a doesn’t include details provided by later source b, regarding the same [larger] story x; therefore, details unique to x must be rejected as fictitious.” Anyone can see that this is manifestly false, with just a few moments of consideration.

But in any event, the Gospel of Mark didn’t intend to include the story of the Nativity. He starts with John the Baptist Jesus’ baptism. Nor does the Gospel of John have the story. Matthew doesn’t claim to include the story of the shepherds. So a claim of “insertion” into an existing story is bogus, because it’s “apple and oranges” in terms of most elements of the two accounts, that are unique to each Gospel.

Mr. Crabtree is in no position to judge who knew the “facts” regarding Jesus’ birth (or who is supposedly making up fake “facts”). It’s arbitrary and irrational analysis. These things are verified and corroborated by archaeology and historiography. So, for example, Jonathan MS Pearce, a prominent online anti-theist atheist, who also likes to tear down the Bible, made the absurd statement recently (on 12-18-20):

This also coheres with Rene Salm’s thesis in The Myth of Nazareth: The Invented Town of Jesus that Nazareth did not exist at the time of Jesus, according to archaeological analysis, and not until at least 70 CE.

I immediately shot down this rather ridiculous and outrageous claim with archaeology, noting the article: “New archaeological evidence from Nazareth reveals religious and political environment in era of Jesus” (David Keys, Independent, 4-17-20). It stated:

[T]he archaeological investigation revealed that in Nazareth itself, in the middle of the first century AD, anti-Roman rebels created a sizeable network of underground hiding places and tunnels underneath the town – big enough to shelter at least 100 people. . . .

The new archaeological investigation – the largest ever carried out into Roman period Nazareth – has revealed that Jesus’s hometown is likely to have been considerably bigger than previously thought. It probably had a population of up to 1,000 (rather than just being a small-to-medium sized village of 100-500, as previously thought).

“Our new investigation has transformed archaeological knowledge of Roman Nazareth,” said Dr Dark, who has just published the results of his research in a new book Roman-Period and Byzantine Nazareth and its Hinterland. . . .

The newly emerging picture of Roman-period Nazareth as a place of substantial religiosity does, however, resonate not only with the emergence of its most famous son, Jesus, but also with the fact that, in the mid-first or second century, it was chosen as the official residence of one of the high priests of the by-then-destroyed Temple in Jerusalem, when all 24 of those Jewish religious leaders were driven into exile in Galilee.

This is actually doing science, rather than sitting in armchairs and making historically and archaeologically clueless remarks, as these anti-theist atheist polemicists do (figuring no one will have patience enough to bother challenging them). See also: “Did First-Century Nazareth Exist?” (Bryan Windle, Bible Archaeology Report, 8-9-18; cf. several related articles from a Google search). Did it exist before Jesus’ time? It looks like it did:

The Franciscan priest Bellarmino Bagatti, “Director of Christian Archaeology”, carried out extensive excavation of this “Venerated Area” from 1955 to 1965. Fr. Bagatti uncovered pottery dating from the Middle Bronze Age (2200 to 1500 BC) and ceramics, silos and grinding mills from the Iron Age (1500 to 586 BC) which indicated substantial settlement in the Nazareth basin at that time. (Wikipedia, “Nazareth”)

That’s science. That is how claims in the Bible are objectively verified by something outside of themselves. Atheists make a ridiculous claim such as that Nazareth didn’t exist in Jesus’ time. Actual verifiable, objective science (archaeology) shoots in down in this instance, and in hundreds of other biblical particulars.

Luke is one of those authors that wrote that the end of the world – judgment day – was to occur in the lifetimes of those alive when Jesus was alive (Luke 9:26-27), but was clearly wrong.

I had dealt with this issue three times:

Debate with an Agnostic on the Meaning of “Last Days” and Whether the Author of Hebrews Was a False Prophet (9-13-06)

“The Last Days”: Meaning in Hebrew, Biblical Thought [12-5-08]

Dr. David Madison vs. Jesus #3: Nature & Time of 2nd Coming [8-3-19]

Then I was made aware of an online copy of a master’s thesis on this topic by a friend of mine, David Palm, entitled “The Signs of His Coming”: for Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, Illinois (1993). He wrote it as an evangelical Protestant, later became a Catholic, and recently noted that he would change nothing in it. I summarized his arguments in this paper:

Seidensticker Folly #58: Jesus Erred on Time of 2nd Coming? (with David Palm) [10-7-20]

At the start of the journey to Golgotha to be crucified, Luke has the Romans grab a bypasser (Simon of Cyrene) and make him carry the cross instead of Jesus, whereas in John’s account Jesus carries it all the way (Luke 23:26 versus John 19:17).

John 19:17 never says that Jesus carried the cross all the way. It says, rather, “he went out, bearing his own cross.” This doesn’t preclude Simon of Cyrene; it simply says that Jesus was bearing the cross when “he went out.” It would be like someone saying when they saw me leave my house, “Dave went out from his house on his bike.” Does that explain everything that may have happened afterwards? No, of course not. I could get a flat tire (in which case I would no longer be “on [my] bike”). I could get hit by lightning. I could have a heart attack. I could get mangled by a bear that jumped out of the woods. I could give away my bike and decide to walk back. It could start pouring and I call my wife to come pick me up in the car. A thousand things might happened that are not covered by “Dave went out from his house on his bike.” The only mystery here is why Mr. Crabtree can’t figure these patently obvious things out on his own.

And what was inscribed on the cross that Simon carried?

All four accounts say that it said “king of the Jews”. Matthew and John add “Jesus.” John adds “. . . of Nazareth.” It’s all quite consistent with the secondary details that four storytellers might get differently from each other.

Of the four gospels, Luke’s account is the only one that has the message inscribed in Latin, Greek and Hebrew (Luke 23:38).

Not true. John 19:20 states that “it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek.” The other two simply don’t mention that, which is no contradiction. I get so tired of explaining simple elements of logic to anti-theist atheists that I could spit . . .

Whilst hanging on the cross, the gospels record that the two other criminals being crucified both mocked Jesus. But Luke only has one criminal insult Jesus (the one on the left), and the other becomes a follower, and speaks not in the insulting and vulgar manner reported in the other gospels, but instead he speaks in a theologically accurate, respectful and elegant manner. The words of Luke’s right-hand criminal are clearly not spoken by the two criminals reported in the other two synoptic gospels: someone (or two people) are making up conversations.

Mark has: “Those who were crucified with him also reviled him” (15:32). Matthew has “And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way” (27:44). Why Luke has one of them mocking and the other rebuking him could be explained simply by a change of heart of the one criminal. Approaching death has a remarkable way of concentrating a mind and making one more acutely aware of one’s own sins. So this man may have repented and decided to make it right by eventually rebuking the other criminal for what he himself was also doing wrongly not long before.

Matthew and Mark would still be correct: both men indeed mocked Jesus (in this proposed scenario).  If one later repented and stopped, that’s not in contradiction with Matthew and Mark. Luke would have to say something like: “the one criminal never mocked Jesus.” But lo and behold, he never does that, and so this is bogus “biblical contradiction” #9,625.

And what of the most important words of all, that any friend would remember forever? Jesus’ last words according to Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34, were to quote Psalm 22, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?‘. But in Luke 23:46, his last words were completely different: ‘Father, into your hands I commend my spirit‘. Luke might have heard that Jesus quoted scripture upon his death, but instead of Psalm 22:1 has him quote Psalm 31:5. Luke doesn’t tell us that he’s unsure which verse was quoted – he states it as a fact, just as the Mark and Matthew state their accounts as fact, even though it is clear that some of them simply didn’t know the truth.

Matthew doesn’t state in 27:46 that these were the last words of Jesus. In fact, he informs us in 27:50: “And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.” This proves that Matthew didn’t regard what he recorded in 27:46 as Jesus’ last words. What He “cried again with a loud voice” were His last words. Matthew simply doesn’t record them.

In Mark 15:37 it’s exactly the same: “And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last.”

Luke provides the content what this uttered cry in a loud voice was: “Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.” The three accounts are completely harmonious with each other.

Jesus dies. Mark 15:39 and Matthew 27:54 both have the centurions say (in different ways) that “truly this man was the son of god“. Luke 23:47 has it differently: “truly this man was innocent“, with no mention at all of Jesus’ divinity.

He said both things. Why is that so inconceivable to the atheists who sit up all night and make up these asinine lists of pseudo-“contradictions”?

Also, in Roman culture the death of a god-man such as Mithras and others was accompanied by miraculous periods of worldwide darkness. Historian Dr Richard Carrier points out that “it was common lore of the time that the sun would be eclipsed at the death of a great king“. Mark:15:33 and Matthew 27:45 both repeat that this happened for Jesus too but Luke makes it a natural darkness by saying it is an eclipse (Luke 23:45). Unfortunately, in doing so, instead of perpetuating pagan stories, he instead contradicts reality: there could be no eclipse at the time of a full moon, and, star gazers who carefully recorded eclipses at that time did not record one.

Luke 23:45 states: “the sun’s light failed.” That’s not necessarily an eclipse. The sun’s light could also fail in midday by dark clouds covering the sky (either in preparation of a big rainstorm or not). It can get very dark in ways other than eclipses. Or God (being omnipotent) could also cause supernatural darkness, if He chose to do so. In any event, the three Synoptic Gospels don’t contradict.

***

Photo credit: Saint Luke, by James Tissot (1836-1902) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

***

2021-02-10T14:52:17-04:00

“The Gospel According to Saint Matthew” was written by atheist Vexen Crabtree in 2016. I will examine his “anti-biblical” arguments to see if they can withstand criticism. Vexen’s words will be in blue.

*****

The Gospel of Matthew is a later copy of the Gospel of Mark, using 92% of its text.

It’s grossly inaccurate to call Matthew simply a “copy” of Mark. Sure, it draws heavily from Mark, as almost all Christians would agree (though likely not it only), but it’s a different book. Probably the majority of biblical scholars today hold to the “two source hypothesis”: that is, the view that both Matthew and Luke independently drew from both Mark and “Q”: a lost collection of Jesus’ sayings. Mr. Crabtree recognizes this in writing, later: “historians are sure that a common source document was used for all of them. They call it ‘Q’ after the German word for ‘source’ “.

One Introduction to the New Testament summarizes the Synoptic situation:

[W]hat makes the synoptic problem particularly knotty is the fact that, alongside such exact agreements, there are so many puzzling differences. . . .

Each evangelist . . . omits material found in the other two, each contains unique incidents, and some of the events that are found in one or both of the others are put in a different order. (by D. A. Carson, Douglas J. Moo, and Leon Morris, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1992, pp. 26-27)

Nor are the three Synoptic Gospels to be seen as merely redundant testimony. Each provides its own slant, together providing a kind of stereoscopic depth that would otherwise be almost entirely missing. (Ibid., p. 84)

The same source refers to the “combination of exact agreement and wide divergence that characterizes the first three gospels” (p. 27). In any event, this reference book explains that the “wholesale takeover, without acknowledgment, of someone else’s literary work, with or without changes, was a common practice in the ancient world, and no opprobrium was connected with it” (p. 73).

Of course, anti-theist atheists routinely throw out the accusation of “dishonesty” and “lying” and fiction-creation by the biblical writers, but they show no real basis for such hostile conclusions, and almost invariably don’t understand key aspects of the culture of the time (such as this one about the practices of ancient writers utilizing existing materials).

It is anonymous and it wasn’t until about 150 CE that the author “Matthew” was assigned.

Carson et al stated that “we have no evidence that  these gospels ever circulated without an appropriate designation . . .” (p. 66). And they add:

[T]he argument that Matthew was understood to be the author of the first gospel long before Papias wrote his difficult words affirming such a connection seems very strong, even if not unassailable. (Ibid., p. 67)

Atheists simply throw out these dates because by then the books were widely known by certain titles. It doesn’t follow, however, that they were not before. They may have been, and more recent scholarship has trended in the direction of earlier use of titles than was previously supposed by the beloved omniscient “higher critics”.

Matthew [was] not written by an eye-witness of Jesus. We know this because it is a copy of Mark. No eye witness of such an important person would have needed, or wanted, to simply copy someone-else’s memories about him.

Well, we deny the premise that Matthew was only “plagiarism of Mark with a few details added.” That just doesn’t fly, upon close analysis. As to eye-witness testimony, J. Warner Wallace observed:

I’m sometimes surprised skeptics resist the claim (at least) that the gospels are written as eyewitness accounts. We can argue about whether or not the gospels are pure fiction, or whether or not they are accurate. But the idea that the gospels can be read as eyewitness accounts is rather unremarkable to me. The gospels record events from the perspective of writers who either saw the events themselves or had access to those who did. The author of John’s gospel describes a meeting between Jesus and his disciples. This meeting appears to include the author and he makes the following claim:

“This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.” (John 21:24)

It certainly appears that the author considers himself to be both a participant in the narrative and a reporter (eyewitness) of the event. That seems rather unremarkable to me. Even if the author is someone other than John, the claim (at the very least) that the author is an eyewitness seems plain. In addition, the author of Luke’s gospel describes himself as a historian who had access to the eyewitnesses:

“Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word…” [Lk 1:1-2]

Even if the author of Luke was not himself an eyewitness, it does appear that he believed he was recording true history as delivered to him from eyewitnesses. Once again, this seems unremarkable. (“Can the Gospels be Defended as Eyewitness Accounts?”, Cold-Case Christianity, 1-26-15)

It is written in Greek and not in the native tongues of anyone who met and followed Jesus,

What difference does it make what language it was written in? As  a Jew in Palestine in the first century, Matthew would have spoken Aramaic. As a tax collector, he would also have known Greek and Hebrew.  It’s said that his style of Greek (less elegant than the Gentile Luke’s) is as if it has a strong Aramaic “accent.”

and it was written too late to reasonably be the memóires of an eye-witness.

It’s not too late at all insofar as it is a personal account, and/or well within range to consult many who were eyewitnesses or earwitnesses to the events. Oral traditions were much stronger in those times and information was routinely preserved in this manner with remarkable accuracy. Encyclopaedia Britannica (“Oral tradition”) explains this notion (very foreign to modern persons in developed and highly literate societies):

In the 1930s, for example, two American scholars, Milman Parry and Albert Lord, conducted extensive fieldwork on oral tradition in the former Yugoslavia. They recorded more than 1,500 orally performed epic poems in an effort to determine how stories that often reached thousands of lines in length could be recalled and performed by individuals who could neither read nor write. What they found was that these poets employed a highly systematic form of expression, a special oral language of formulaic phrases, typical scenes, and story patterns that enabled their mnemonic and artistic activities. With this information in hand, Parry and Lord were able to draw a meaningful analogy to the ancient Greek Iliad and Odyssey, which derived from oral tradition and obey many of the same rules of composition. The mystery of the archaic Homeric poems—simply put, “Who was Homer and what relation did he have to the surviving texts?”—was solved by modern comparative investigation. Whoever Homer was, whether a legend or an actual individual, the poems attributed to him ultimately derive from an ancient and long-standing oral tradition.

Other familiar works with deep roots in oral tradition include the Judeo-Christian Bible, the Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh, and the medieval English Beowulf. The famous “begats” genealogy of the Bible’s book of Genesis and corresponding elements found in the four Gospels of the New Testament provide examples of how flexible oral-traditional systems can produce different but related products over many generations. Similarly, what survives in the fragmentary record of Gilgamesh is evidence of a broadly distributed tale in the ancient Middle East, one that passed easily from culture to culture and language to language before being inscribed on tablets. Beowulf, whose unique manuscript dates to the 10th century CE, circulated in oral tradition for centuries before Irish missionaries introduced the new technology of inked letters on parchment.

Bottom line? Even Mr. Crabtree holds that Matthew was written between 70-100 AD. That’s “nothing” in terms of an oral tradition being preserved with minute accuracy. No problem at all. And it’s early enough to be either from a direct witness (Matthew) or reported by same.

Matthew specifically set out to correct many mistakes in Mark’s gospel, especially regarding comments on Jewish customs and practices. 

Well, that was Mr. Crabtree’s goal: to show this. I think I systematically dismantled his case in my previous two papers along these lines:

Pearce’s Potshots #15: Gospel of Matthew vs. Gospel of Mark? [2-7-21]

Groundless Gospel of Mark Bashing Systematically Refuted (vs. Vexen Crabtree) [2-9-21]

In many cases he found a text, and because he did not know Jesus, felt free to invent details in order to make the Old Testament text he was reading appear as a prophecy.

Mr. Crabtree acts as if what Matthew did (i.e., what he actually did; not atheist caricatures of it) is unethical or dishonest. It wasn’t. On this question, see:

“Matthew’s Use of the Old Testament: A Preliminary Analysis” (Lee Campbell Ph.D., Xenos Christian Fellowship)

“New Testament use of the Old Testament” (Theopedia)

2.1. There Was No Virgin Birth

The Prophecy of the Virgin Birth appears in Matthew 1:22-23. Matthew wrote this seventy years after Jesus Christ was born (35-40 years after he died). Up until that point no other text mentions Jesus’ virgin birth. He quotes Isaiah 7:14 which was written 700 years before Jesus was born – thus claiming it was a sign, a prediction of the messiah’s virgin birth.

Yes, it was.

But there is a serious problem. Matthew states that, due to prophecy, it is true that Jesus was a male line descendant of King David, and presents a genealogy at the beginning of his gospel tracing Jesus’ lineage through Joseph. Matthew, apparently, like Luke and Paul and the rest of the early Christians, did not believe in a virgin birth. There are two theories that explain how this contradiction occurred. (1) A Septuagint mistranslation of the word “virgin” instead of “young woman” caused the discrepancy. The original prophecy is not that someone called Immanuel will be born of a virgin, but merely that someone called Immanuel will be born. In the original context of the story, this makes a lot of sense. (2) Matthew, writing for a Roman gentile audience in Greek, included popular myths surrounding sons of gods, who in Roman mythology were frequently said to be born of virgins. In either case, it is clear that Matthew’s prophecy of a virgin birth was a mistake, and modern Bible’s actually include a footnote in Matthew pointing out that the virgin birth is a Septuagint mistranslation. . . . 

It is only a later Greek mistranslation that makes Matthew say “called Immanuel, born of a virgin”, rather than “of a young woman”.

I’ve addressed these matters at great length:

Dual Fulfillment of Prophecy & the Virgin Birth (vs. JMS Pearce) [12-18-20]

Other Christians and Previous Christians Did Not Believe in the Virgin Birth

  • 50ce : The writer(s) of the gospel of Q were unaware of the virgin birth.
  • 64ce : Paul died without writing of the virgin birth.
  • 70ce : The writer of the Gospel of Mark does not mention it.

Not mentioning something is not the same as a denial. This should be self-evident to anyone. It’s a simple matter of logic. The Gospel of John and all of Paul’s epistles in the Bible never mention camels, either. Does it follow that both men denied their existence?

But a case can be made that Paul did allude to it. J. Warner Wallace contended:

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Paul says that Jesus was “born of a woman” and not “born of a virgin”. Critics have argued that this is proof that Paul was unaware of the virgin conception. But this is not necessarily the case. Many scholars have observed that the expression, “born of a woman, born under the Law” implies that Jesus had no earthly father because Paul curiously chose to omit any mention of Joseph in this passage. It was part of the Hebrew culture and tradition to cite the father alone when describing any genealogy, yet Paul ignored Joseph and cited Mary alone, as if to indicate that Joseph was not Jesus’ father. (“Why Didn’t Paul Mention the Virgin Conception?”, Cold-Case Christianity, 12-14-18)

2.2. The Guiding Star

One of Matthew’s plotlines is the three visitors from the East who visit the newborn Jesus. They say that a star came up in the East, however no other people in the story appear to notice this. It must have been a relatively unnoticeable event, a fairly faint star, only noticed by people who study the stars. The three visitors are called “Star Readers” in Matthew 2:1. However no other astrologers across the world at that time document this phenomenon. It appears Matthew made it up.

It so happens that I did a great deal of study on the star of Bethlehem last December:

Star of Bethlehem, Astronomy, Wise Men, & Josephus (Amazing Astronomically Verified Data in Relation to the Journey of the Wise Men  & Jesus’ Birth & Infancy) [12-14-20]

Star of Bethlehem: Refuting Silly Atheist Objections [12-26-20]

Star of Bethlehem: More Silly Atheist “Objections” [12-29-20]

2.3. Matthew 21:1-7 – The Prophecy of the 2 Donkeys

Mark wrote that Jesus rode triumphantly into Jerusalem on a donkey. Luke and John both stuck to this. Matthew was in the habit of “correcting” Mark’s errors and on this point of Jesus’ riding into Jerusalem, Matthew felt he should have been riding on two donkeys at the same time.

On all three times Matthew mentions this part (Matthew 21:1-7) he says the same thing, so it was not a transcription error. Why does Matthew alter the text in such a bizarre way? It seems he misread Zechariah 9:9: “mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a donkey”. We have already seen from Matthew’s misinterpretation of the difference between the Hebrew word “Almah” and “Betulah” that he has a poor understanding of Hebrew. This passage also was misunderstood by Matthew.

In Hebrew an emphasis is expressed by the doubling of a word or a phrase, like “and David’s enemies were dead, and yes, very dead,” so the original phrase does not mean two animals at all (as is also clearly shown by Jewish comments on the passage).

Once again Matthew changed the meaning of the text to reflect what he thought it should say in order to make a prophecy come true, a conscious act of fraud in order to make the text fits his own personal opinion of the facts.

This is hogwash, I have dealt with this charge already:

David Madison vs. the Gospel of Mark #10: Chapter 11 (Two Donkeys? / Fig Tree / Moneychangers) [8-20-19]

2.4. Matthew 2:16-18 – King Herod: The Killing of Every Male Baby

Chapter two of Matthew tells us of King Herod’s anger at the three wise men and then of the killing of every child. Surely, the slaughter of every male child (Matthew 2:16-18) in Bethlehem, Ramah, and the surrounding area would have got mentioned in many places, such as Josephus’ detailed accounts of the times, in fact it would likely cause the downfall of such an immoral, monstrous leader who issued such orders!

Catholic apologist Trent Horn offers a superb rebuttal of this standard playbook accusation from atheists:

Such an act of cruelty perfectly corresponds with Herod’s paranoid and merciless character, which bolsters the argument for its historicity. Josephus records that Herod was quick to execute anyone he perceived to threaten his rule, including his wife and children (Antiquities 15.7.5–6 and 16.11.7). Two Jewish scholars have made the case that Herod suffered from “Paranoid Personality Disorder,” and Caesar Augustus even said that it was safer to be Herod’s pig than his son.

In addition, first-century Bethlehem was a small village that would have included, at most, a dozen males under the age of two. Josephus, if he even knew about the massacre, probably did not think an isolated event like the killings at Bethlehem needed to be recorded, especially since infanticide in the Roman Empire was not a moral abomination as it is in our modern Western world.

[prominent archaeologist William F. Albright estimated the population of Bethlehem at the time of Jesus’ birth to be about 300 people]

Herod’s massacre would also not have been the first historical event Josephus failed to record.

We know from Suetonius and from the book of Acts that the Emperor Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome in A.D. 49, but neither Josephus nor the second century Roman historian Tacitus record this event (Acts 18). Josephus also failed to record Pontius Pilate’s decision to install blasphemous golden shields in Jerusalem, which drove the Jews to petition the emperor for their removal. The Alexandrian philosopher Philo was the only person to record this event.

Sometimes historians choose not to record an event, and their reasons cannot always be determined. In the nineteenth century Pope Leo XIII noted the double standard in critics for whom “a profane book or ancient document is accepted without hesitation, whilst the Scripture, if they only find in it a suspicion of error, is set down with the slightest possible discussion as quite untrustworthy” (Providentissimus Deus, 20).

We should call out this double standard when critics demand that every event recorded in Scripture, including the massacre of the Holy Innocents, be corroborated in other non-biblical accounts before they can be considered to be historical. (“Is the Massacre of the Holy Innocents Historical?”, Catholic Answers, 12-26-19)

Many other myths, including more ancient Roman ones, had an event where all the male children were killed, and the famous Romulus and Remus story is (once again) a good, famous example. The story of Moses also contains a period of time when all Jewish male children are being killed by the King of the time, when Moses escapes in a basket pushed down a river by his mother. The princess who picked him out of the water called him Moses, which means “picked out”. . . . 

Matthew appears to have included, as part of Jesus’ history, the same story that accompanies many other myths in history. That of the darkening of the sun when an important person dies. . . . 

Graves continues to partially list major myths of the time that included such a darkening of the sun: The ancient pagan demigod Senerus, the Indian God Chrishna, the Egyptian Osiris, Prometheus, Romulus, even Caesar and Alexander the Great.

If we removed from Matthew all the stories about Jesus that were to be found to be part of Roman popular culture about sons-of-gods, then, we find that there is very little left! Some people theorize that all stories about Jesus are copies of other stories because Jesus himself never existed!

So what! How would this “logic” work? Let’s see: “if ever in history an event, x, occurred [Christians and Jews think the story of Moses is historical], which included in it sub-event y, then it follows that y can never ever happen again, since it already happened!” Huh? This would be scornfully laughed out of any course on logic anytime, anywhere.

By this logic, because President Lincoln was shot and killed by a pistol, it follows that Presidents Garfield and McKinley could not have been. Makes sense, huh? But Mr. Crabtree is actually being even more ridiculous than that. He is also arguing, “if in non-historical mythology, an event, x is described, which included in it sub-event y, then it follows that y can never ever happen in real life.”

Therefore, by his “reasoning” because the wicked witch was burned to death in her own oven, in the German fairy tale Hansel and Gretel, no one could ever actually be burned to death in an oven. The existence of the fairy tale / myth precludes the possibility of it ever occurring in real life.

Anti-theist atheists engage in this sort of logical ludicrosity time and again: apparently never stopping to think that it is perfectly absurd. Or if they know it’s logically absurd, they use it anyway if they perceive that it “works” in order to further their goal of painting Christianity and the Bible as worthy only of loathing and mockery.

2.5. The End of the World is Imminent

Jesus in the Christian Bible proclaimed many times that the world was about to end: judgement was about to come and he specifically said that this would happen in the same generation that he first appeared in. Obviously, there has been a delay. St Paul taught the same message, preaching the urgent admission of sins, because of the imminent end. The rest of the New Testament, especially the Book of Revelations, provides many more cryptic clues about when this will occur. This is what has spurred the endless stream of historical proclamations by studious Christians that the end is near. Matthew 24:27-44 is a lengthy commentary on when the Son of Man comes to end the world, but various hints and comments are scattered throughout the rest of New Testament. Some of the relevant comments in Matthew are:
  • The imminent end of the world will be obvious to all (Matthew 24:27). Jesus quotes Isaiah 13:10, 34:4, saying that the sun will go out and the stars will fall from the sky (Matthew 24:29, copied from Mark 13:20-26). The Son of Man will arrive in the clouds with great power and trumpets (24:30-31 copied from Mark 13:27). There will be signs just before the end although no-one knows in advance at what hour the end-times will come (Matthew 24:32-39, copied from Mark 13:28-33). The end of the world starts with the rapture, when approximately one in two men and one in two women will be raptured and taken into heaven, suddenly, by God (Matthew 24:40-41).
  • It is imminent: Jesus warns clearly that “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. This world will pass away…” (Matthew 16:28, 24:34-35, Mark 9:1, 13:30 and Luke 9:26-27). In Matthew 10:23 Jesus warns his disciples to preach very rapidly in town after town, fleeing at the first sign of persecution, because they will not have enough time to go through all the towns of Israel before the end of the world occurs. In 1 Corinthians 7:27-31 St Paul says that time is so short, people should no longer bother getting married, mourn or bother with possessions: “Those who have wives should live as if they had none; … those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away”. Matthew 8:22 dismisses niceties of funeral arrangements “let the dead bury their own dead” because followers must join Jesus immediately, before it is too late!

I had dealt with this issue three times:

Debate with an Agnostic on the Meaning of “Last Days” and Whether the Author of Hebrews Was a False Prophet (9-13-06)

“The Last Days”: Meaning in Hebrew, Biblical Thought [12-5-08]

Dr. David Madison vs. Jesus #3: Nature & Time of 2nd Coming [8-3-19]

Then I was made aware of an online copy of a master’s thesis on this topic by a friend of mine, David Palm, entitled “The Signs of His Coming”: for Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, Illinois (1993). He wrote it as an evangelical Protestant, later became a Catholic, and recently noted that he would change nothing in it. I summarized his arguments in this paper:

Seidensticker Folly #58: Jesus Erred on Time of 2nd Coming? (with David Palm) [10-7-20]

Matthew contributed some very unlikely events to the Biblical account of the crucifixion and resurrection.

Whether an event is “unlikely” or not is irrelevant to whether it actually happened. Lots of “strange” things have happened throughout history.

For example, the Guards on the Tomb,

How is that “very unlikely”? Atheists have bandied about the story of the supposed stolen body of Jesus, in order to explain away the resurrection, for centuries. If they can “reason” like that, then it follows that the people of the time could have as well. The very prevalence of this skeptical motif renders it likely and plausible.

the empty Tomb,

Yeah, it’s very unlikely. But it didn’t mean it didn’t happen.

the Angel,

In the Bible there are such things as angels! We understand that atheists disbelieve in them. Again, mere disbelief is not proof of the non-existence of angels, anymore than it is for God’s existence.

the Earthquake

Now there is scientific evidence that an earthquake did indeed occur around the time of the crucifixion of Jesus. See:

The Christ Quake (documentary)

Crucifixion Quake (documentary)

and the 3 hours darkness at Jesus’ death

If this wasn’t a natural event (a lunar eclipse or a storm with very dark cloud cover, which can happen), then it could have been a supernatural darkness. If God exists and if indeed He is omnipotent, then this is entirely possible.

are all very likely to be wrong.

On what basis? Bald assertion is neither argument nor evidence.

Matthew exaggerates elements when copying Mark to the point of making it up, for example the young-boy who at Jesus’ tomb becomes a radiant angel who scares off the guards (Matthew 28).

Angels are often called men in Scripture. But there could easily have been more than one angel involved. The Gospels taken together, show that this is the case. Deliberate lying or deception is not a plausible or provable hypothesis.

These side-stories, although not essential to the idea of the resurrection, reinforce the feeling that Matthew was writing anything he could to make Jesus out to have existed, whether such things were true or not.

Mr. Crabtree has not cast serious doubt on these things; not by these arguments. That Jesus exists is the consensus of virtually all serious scholars. See: Seidensticker Folly #4: Jesus Never Existed, Huh? [8-14-18].

Mr. Crabtree then cites atheist Richard Carrier at length. His words will be in green:

Doesn’t the fact that the tomb was guarded make escape unlikely, even if Jesus survived?

Not if Jesus was resurrected, and if He was God (as Christians believe). A mere stone would then be irrelevant as to His “escape.”

Although one gospel accuses the Jews of making up the theft story, it is only that same gospel, after all, which mentions a guard on the tomb, and the authors have the same motive to make that up as the Jews would have had to make up the theft story: by inventing guards on the tomb the authors create a rhetorical means of putting the theft story into question, especially for the majority of converts who did not live in Palestine.

I already answered this above:

Atheists have bandied about the story of the supposed stolen body of Jesus, in order to explain away the resurrection, for centuries. If they can “reason” like that, then it follows that the people of the time could have as well. The very prevalence of this skeptical motif renders it likely and plausible.

I think atheists and the Jewish opponents of Jesus making such a story up is at least as plausible as the Gospel writers doing so.

An additional reason to reject Matthew’s story is that it contradicts all other accounts and is illogical: if the tomb was sealed until the angel came and moved the stone before the women and the guards, how did Jesus leave the tomb undetected? Did he teleport? For he wasn’t in the tomb: it was already empty. Even if he want to imagine that he did teleport, all the other Gospels record that the stone had already been moved when the women arrived (Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2, John 20:1). Thus, Matthew’s account is contradicted three times, even by an earlier source (Mark), and does not make a lot of sense. That is further ground for rejecting it: for Matthew alone must have the angel open the tomb when the women are present in order to silence the guards that he alone has put there.

I just got through writing an exhaustive two-part refutation of numerous anti-resurrection claims:

Pearce’s Potshots #13: Resurrection “Contradictions” (?) [2-2-21]

Pearce’s Potshots #14: Resurrection “Contradictions” #2 [2-4-21]

And I had done some before, too:

Silly Atheist Arguments vs. the Resurrection & Miracles [2002]

Dialogue w Atheist on Post-Resurrection “Contradictions” [1-26-11]

Seidensticker Folly #18: Resurrection “Contradictions”? [9-17-18]

Jesus’ Resurrection: Scholarly Defenses of its Historicity [4-12-20]

 

***

Photo credit: The evangelist Matthew and the angel (1661), by Rembrandt (1606-1669) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

***

2021-02-09T11:23:50-04:00

I just finished yesterday an exhaustive (over 8,000-word) point-by-point refutation of a wholesale attack on the Gospel of Mark, written by atheist Steven Carr: Pearce’s Potshots #15: Gospel of Matthew vs. Gospel of Mark?. That piece was actually part of a longer diatribe, entitled The Gospel According to Saint Mark: written by another atheist: Vexen Crabtree in 2006. Now I will examine his piece, too, to see if it is any more worthy of belief than Carr’s relentlessly erroneous analysis. Vexen’s words will be in blue.

*****

This anonymous gospel was the first to be written, around 80 CE, by an unknown Roman convert to Christianity.

Many early Christian writers state that Mark (or John Mark) is the author. The most important “witness” is Papias, a bishop of Hierapolis in Asia Minor (Turkey) until about 130 AD. His statement is recorded in in Eusebius’ History of the Church, written in 325:

14. Papias gives also in his own work other accounts of the words of the Lord on the authority of Aristion who was mentioned above, and traditions as handed down by the presbyter John; to which we refer those who are fond of learning. But now we must add to the words of his which we have already quoted the tradition which he gives in regard to Mark, the author of the Gospel.

15. “This also the presbyter 960 said: Mark, having become the interpreter of Peter, wrote down accurately, though not in order, whatsoever he remembered of the things said or done by Christ. 961 For he neither heard the Lord nor followed him, but afterward, as I said, he followed Peter, who adapted his teaching to the needs of his hearers, but with no intention of giving a connected account of the Lord’s discourses, 962 so that Mark committed no error while he thus wrote some things as he remembered them. For he was careful of one thing, not to omit any of the things which he had heard, and not to state any of them falsely.” These things are related by Papias concerning Mark. (Book III, 39:15)

The “presbyter John” referred to may be the apostle John himself. If so, the identification of Mark as the author goes back (via oral transmission) to the first Christians. Other early witnesses to Mark’s authorship include Irenaeus (c. 130-c. 202), Clement of Alexandria (150-c. 215),  Tertullian (c. 155-c. 240), and Origen (c. 184-c. 253). No one can be found in the early Church who dissents from this opinion of authorship.

That this Mark referred to by these early Christians is also the same as “(John) Mark” (mentioned in Acts 12:12, 25;  13:5, 13; 15:37; Col 4:10; Philem 24; 2 Tim 4:11; 1 Pet 5:13) is almost certain.

The author of Mark was not an eyewitnesses of Jesus, and wasn’t friends with any of the disciples nor any other witnesses who could have easily corrected many of his mistakes.

Papias states otherwise: that he drew from Peter, and we have no compelling reason to doubt his report.

The evidence is that (1) the author uses a lot of existing stories (both Hebrew and Greek) and wrote them into the text with Jesus as the centre of the story, instead of the original characters.

A common theme in atheist biblical skepticism is to simply assert these sorts of wild claims, while not presenting any evidence why anyone should accept them. Joe Blow atheist asserting x, y, z skeptical claims about supposed Gospel “fictions and fairy tales” — provided by no evidence whatsoever — has exactly no plausibility or ability to persuade any fair-minded, objective thinking person. Why should we believe them (even before getting into the question of the unreliability of “hostile witnesses”)? But the early Christian tradition is agreed that the author was Mark and that he drew from an eyewitness, Peter.

(2) He didn’t speak Aramaic (Jesus’ language) 

How does he know this? The Gospel of Mark came down to us in Greek, but there is no proof that Mark didn’t speak Aramaic. Professor of New Testament Language Larry Hurtado wrote that “Mark has more Semitic words/expressions (mainly Aramaic) than any of the other Gospels.” As to whether Mark spoke Aramaic, see “Aramaic in Mark” by Dr. Benjamin Shaw (who earned a Th.M. from Princeton Theological Seminary, with an emphasis in biblical languages: Greek, Hebrew, Old Testament and Targumic Aramaic, as well as Ugaritic), 2021.

Ben Witherington in The Gospel of Mark: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary (pp. 18-9) documents a number of stylistic traits of Mark’s Gospel:

  1. Historical present tense verbs
  2. Repetition of phrases
  3. Impersonal plural verb followed by a singular verb
  4. First-person plural narrative
  5. Parenthetical clarifications
  6. γάρclauses
  7. Anacoluthon
  8. Paratacticκαί
  9. Aramaic phrases
  10. Unusual words or constructions
  11. Chreia

In sum, these traits point to an author who struggles to express himself in the language he is writing. . . . So the text itself suggests the author of Mark was, in fact, an Aramaic speaker. [source]

Kenneth Kuziej, in his article, “The Aramaic Logic of Jesus in Mark and Matthew,” Consensus: Vol. 2 : Iss. 3 , Article 5 (1976) provides very helpful information:

Mark’s Greek is rough, strongly Aramaic, and not surprisingly, full of grammatical errors. At the same time, however, it is language which is lively and appealing, like that of an enthusiastic young immigrant. . . . Luke’s Gospel preserves no Aramaic words of Jesus. Neither does the Gospel of John, which, though accented with Aramaic, has such a simple vocabulary it almost seems as if this evangelist chooses not to make his work hard to understand for readers who understood no Aramaic.

The question is why did Matthew’s and Mark’s Gospels preserve those Aramaic words and phrases of Jesus? It’s only a guess, but perhaps, like many people who are new to a language, when stumped, fall back on their native words. This almost could be the explanation for the word Mammon (loosely translated “money” but meaning all material things) and Raka (which is an obscure term of abuse loosely translated “you fool”).

and wrote in Greek, not Hebrew, 

The manuscript came down to us in Greek. No one disagrees with that. So why mention it? But the evidence presented above strongly suggests that Greek was not his first language; Aramaic very likely was.

even having Jesus quote a Greek mistranslation of the Old Testament. . . .

All of his quotes from the Old Testament are from the faulty Septuagint translation, in Greek.

Catholic apologist Jason Evert explains the New Testament use of the Septuagint: Greek translation of the Old Testament:

Of the places where the New Testament quotes the Old, the great majority is from the Septuagint version. Protestant authors Archer and Chirichigno list 340 places where the New Testament cites the Septuagint but only 33 places where it cites from the Masoretic Text rather than the Septuagint (G. Archer and G. C. Chirichigno, Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament: A Complete Survey, 25-32).

For those who may not know, the Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. The common abbreviation for it—LXX, or the Roman numerals for 70—come from a legend that the first part of the Septuagint was done by 70 translators.

By the first century, the LXX was the Bible of Greek-speaking Jews and so was the most frequently used version of the Old Testament in the early Church. For this reason, it was natural for the authors of the New Testament to lift quotes from it while writing in Greek to the Church.

But, while the New Testament authors quoted the LXX frequently, it does not necessarily follow that Christ did. We know for certain that Jesus quoted the Hebrew Old Testament at times, since he read from the scrolls in the synagogue. But Jesus could have only quoted from the Hebrew, and the New Testament authors later used the Greek translation to record the fact.

Some details such as what Jesus said in his personal prayers is made-up. . . . 

How did Mark know what Jesus said in his private prayer in Mark 14:32-36? Jesus specifically goes out of his way to leave the disciples behind, taking only James, John and Peter with him. Then, he departs from them for such a distance that they are asleep by the time he returns – and this happens twice. The occasional academic is not afraid to voice the obvious truth: “So how did Mark know? He ‘knew’ because he made it up” – Price.

On what basis is this to be believed? It’s simply the usual irrational, hostile atheist skepticism. Jesus could have simply communicated what He was praying to Peter, who passed it on to Mark. The Bible doesn’t claim to be absolutely exhaustive, as to what Jesus taught His followers. Indeed, one long conversation in one evening by Jesus would contain far more words, by far, than all of His words recorded in Scripture. And that’s just one night. He was constantly with the disciples for three years, day and night. Mark 6:34 notes in one instance, even with the crowds, not just the disciples: “he began to teach them many things” (RSV, as throughout my reply) None of them are recorded. Mark 4:34 adds: “privately to his own disciples he explained everything.”

So some of this “everything” could have easily been what Jesus prayed. All Jesus had to do was tell Peter, “last night I prayed [so-and-so]” (maybe in response to the ever-zealous Peter asking Him) just as we have cases where He revealed what He prayed in Scripture: “I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail” (Lk 22:32; spoken to Peter). Then Peter could tell Mark about one of these prayers, and that’s how Mark could have “known” about Jesus’ private prayers. It’s not rocket science to envision such a scenario. It’s absolutely not impossible.

He included multiple copies of the same story (but often with different details – evidence that he was using passed-on stories that had diverged over time). This often results in internal contradictions and inconsistencies.

Another bald claim. Mr. Crabtree has to provide more specifics, then the Christian can respond to the accusation (just as I did with Steven Carr’s hit-piece: systematically refuting every “anti-Mark” argument that he made). Christian apologists don’t have time to chase vague phantoms of anti-theist atheists’ unbridled imaginations.

The unfamiliarity with Jewish ways of life. There was no-one to correct his blunders such as misquoting the 10 commandments, attributing God’s words to Moses, and having Jews buy things on the Sabbath.

I thoroughly refuted all of these bogus charges last time, along with many others. They are born of rank ignorance, and it’s embarrassing to see how woefully inadequate and downright silly they are, once scrutinized.

Many of the Gospel of Mark’s mistakes were edited and corrections were attempted by Matthew and Luke when they made their own copies of Mark (together there are only about 30 verses that they didn’t copy).

Once again, specifics would have to be given, for me to reply. When such alleged “corrections” of Matthew were posited by Mr. Carr, I showed in every instance that they were groundless.

Because of its influence, some historians have argued that Mark’s text it the primary material that created the legend of Jesus: “Bruno Bauer believed Mark had invented Jesus, just as Mark Twain created Huck Finn”.

Saying that a real Jesus didn’t exist at all, or if He did, it was nothing like the Gospel portrayal, is intellectual suicide (hence, I spend little time with it, just as I rarely waste my time wrangling about a flat earth or a 10,000-year-old earth. See: Seidensticker Folly #4: Jesus Never Existed, Huh? [8-14-18]

Mr. Crabtree cites Robert M. Price stating about the time of Jesus: “there is no evidence for synagogues in Galilee.” Nonsense. The text Price was dealing with (Mark 3:1-5) was about an incident in Capernaum (see Mk 2:1 for the context regarding place). Capernaum had a synagogue. It’s located in Galilee on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. I visited it myself in 2014, and it was noted that the present one was built on top of an older one, whose foundation could still be seen at the bottom of the structure (much darker basalt rocks). Where do people like Price get off saying stupid things like this? A UNESCO page: “Early Synagogues in the Galilee” gives the real story:

The remains of as many as 50 different synagogues were identified in the Galilee, one of the most concentrated sites for synagogues in the world at that time. These early synagogues included Meron, Gush Halav, Navorin, Bar Am and Bet Alfa and Korazim, and Capernaum by the Sea of Galilee. The earliest synagogue remains in Palestine date to the late first century BCE, or by the early first century CE. By this time the synagogue was a developed central institution throughout the Jewish world.

Len Ritmeyer noted in his article, “The Synagogue of Capernaum in which Jesus taught” (3-15-18):

Digging deeper down in 1981, walls made of basalt stones and a basalt floor turned up 4 feet below the surface. These walls were located underneath the walls of the white synagogue and also under the stylobates (low walls that support a row of columns). It was initially thought that these walls were foundation walls, but when 1st century material was found on and below the basalt floor, it became evident that these basalt walls belonged to a synagogue of the 1st century, i.e, the synagogue in which Jesus taught.

Some of the trenches have been left open and the remains of this early synagogue can be seen today. [the article has a photo of that]

 The Times of Israel reported on 8-19-16 about another synagogue in Galilee from Jesus’ time, that He very well may have visited:

Israeli archaeologists in northern Israel have uncovered the ruins of a rural synagogue that dates back some 2,000 years.

The remains of the synagogue were found during an archaeological dig at Tel Rekhesh, near Mount Tabor in the lower Galilee, in what was an ancient Jewish village.

The find could lend weight to the New Testament narrative that Jesus visited villages in the area to preach.

Mordechai Aviam, an archaeologist at Kinneret College on the Sea of Galilee who led the dig, estimated the synagogue was built between 20-40 AD and was used for a hundred years. . . .

“The site is 17 km (10 miles) as crow flies east of Nazareth, and 12 km from Nin (Naim), and although we don’t have its name in the New Testament, it is in the area in which Jesus acted,” said Aviam.

Mark 1:30 And he went throughout all Galilee, preaching in their synagogues . . .

Mark 6:6 And he went about among the villages teaching. [i.e., “villages” near Nazareth: see 6:1]

I could easily find more about this, but these counter-examples suffice. So goes “bust” another atheist myth: disproven by archaeology and historiography . . .

We have seen already that Mark was not known as a Gospel of ‘Mark’ for over a hundred years. 

That’s of no relevance. All that matters is whether there were reliable oral traditions, based ultimately on eyewitness testimony. These eventually made their way into the written accounts.

When Christians came to name the Gospels, they picked ‘Mark’, who they thought should be a disciple of Peter, who in Greek mythology was associated with the Egyptian god Petra, the gate guardian of Heaven. Nowadays, Christians nowadays consider ‘Peter’ to be a genuine historical person, but it seems that even if he was real, Mark didn’t know him. 

This is simply groundless, arbitrary, downright stupid speculation from atheists: as usual backed up with nothing substantial at all, let alone scholarly. Readers can see, on the other hand, how my replies consistently have scholarly backing. Mr. Crabtree is ridiculous enough to start doubting the historicity of Peter as well.

Peter certainly could have corrected any of Mark’s errors in Jewish knowledge, and it is ludicrous to assume that Mark wrote this text without showing Peter (or any other Jew).

Again, I think I disposed of many of the supposed examples of Mark’s “lack of Jewishness” in my previous reply along these lines. I flatly deny the premise.

It is clear that Mark didn’t know any Jews. 

This is an extraordinary claim. What’s the evidence for it?

All three other gospels refer to Peter (Matthew 16:17-20, Luke 22:28-32 and John 21:15-17) and give him authority, whereas Mark doesn’t. 

Mark mentions “Peter” 19 times. Matthew mentions him 23 times, with 12 more chapters to do so. So, proportionately, Mark has more emphasis on Peter. Luke mentions him 18 times, with eight more chapters than Mark. But then we have to add the use also of “Simon”: his earlier name. That’s ten more times in Mark for a total of references to Peter of 29 times. Matthew adds five more references with “Simon” for 28 total. Luke adds 14, for a total of 32. So the grand totals are:

Mark: 29 in 15 chapters (average of 1.9 times per chapter).

Matthew: 28 in 28 chapters (average of one time per chapter).

Luke: 32 in 24 chapters (average of 1.3 times per chapter).

So Mark mentions Peter (“Peter” or “Simon”) almost twice as much per chapter as Matthew does and almost three times to every two times that Luke does. That’s hardly an underemphasis on Peter.

Moreover, Mark shows him as preeminent, just as the others do, by showing that he is the most mentioned of the disciples and their leader. Peter’s name invariably occurs first in all lists of apostles, including in Mark (3:16). Mark implies that he is the leader, in citing an angel stating, “tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee” (16:7). Singling him out in such a way, over against the rest of the disciples, is clearly expressing his leadership. This occurs again in Mark 1:36 (“And Simon and those who were with him pursued him,”). He’s a spokesman for the other disciples (Mk 8:29). He’s listed first of the “inner circle” of disciples: Peter, James, and John (Mk 5:37; 14:37). He’s the central figure in dramatic stories: for instance, Jesus walking on the water (Mk 10:28).

I think Mark knew Peter was not real; but merely a piece of Roman mythology used symbolically in a way all Romans would have understood.  Later authors (such as the Jewish author of the Gospel of Matthew), who copied Mark’s text, did not know this, therefore they elevated him.

This is just manifestly ridiculous, and not worthy of any attention. It’s self-refuting.

Sandals and Staff: Jesus sends his disciples out to preach, but in Mark [6:8-9] they are told to wear sandals (contradicting Matthew [10:9-10] ), and are told to take a staff (contradicting Luke [9:3]). Only one of these three authors could have really been there (if any).

At least this appears at first glance to be a real contradiction (unlike virtually all atheist proposed ones I’ve ever seen: and I’ve dealt with several hundred). So it deserves a serious treatment. Protestant apologists Eric Lyons and Brad Harrub (on a site that specializes in alleged biblical contradictions) grant the difficulty of interpreting these passages harmoniously in writing that they were “Perhaps the most difficult alleged Bible contradiction that we have been asked to ‘tackle’ . . . A cursory reading of the above passages admittedly is somewhat confusing.” Then they proceed to explain the apparent discrepancies:

The differences between Matthew and Mark are explained easily when one acknowledges that the writers used different Greek verbs to express different meanings. In Matthew, the word “provide” (NKJV) is an English translation of the Greek word ktesthe. According to Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon, the root word comes from ktaomai, which means to “procure for oneself, acquire, get” (1979, p. 455). Based upon these definitions, the New American Standard Version used the English verb “acquire” in Matthew 10:9 (“Do not acquire….”), instead of “provide” or “take.” In Matthew, Jesus is saying: “Do not acquire anything in addition to what you already have that may tempt you or stand in your way. Just go as you are.” As Mark indicated, the apostles were to “take” (airo) what they had, and go. The apostles were not to waste precious time gathering supplies (extra apparel, staffs, shoes, etc.) or making preparations for their trip, but instead were instructed to trust in God’s providence for additional needs. Jesus did not mean for the apostles to discard the staffs and sandals they already had; rather, they were not to go and acquire more.

They continue by tackling the additional information from Luke:

As is obvious from a comparison of the verses in Matthew and Luke, they are recording the same truth—that the apostles were not to spend valuable time gathering extra staffs—only they are using different words to do so.

Provide (Greek ktaomineither gold nor silver…nor staffs” (Matthew 10:9-10, emp. added).

Take (Greek airo) nothing for the journey, neither staffs” (Luke 9:3, emp. added).

Luke did not use ktaomi in his account because he nearly always used ktaomi in a different sense than Matthew did. In Matthew’s account, the word ktaomai is used to mean “provide” or “acquire,” whereas in the books of Luke and Acts, Luke used this word to mean “purchase, buy, or earn.” Notice the following examples of how Luke used this word.

“I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get” (ktaomai) [Luke 18:12, emp. added, NAS]

“Now this man purchased (ktaomai) a field with the wages of iniquity (Acts 1:18, emp. added).

“Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased (ktaomai) with money!” (Acts 8:20, emp. added).

The commander answered, “With a large sum I obtained (ktaomai) this citizenship” (Acts 22:28, emp. added).

*
[Luke 21:19 is the only place one could argue where Luke may have used ktaomai to mean something other than “purchase, buy, or earn,” but even here there is a transactional notion in it (Miller, 1997)].When Luke, the beloved physician (Colossians 4:14), used the word ktaomai, he meant something different than when Matthew, the tax collector, used the same word. Whereas Luke used ktaomai to refer to purchasing or buying something, Matthew used the Greek verb agorazo (cf. Matthew 14:15; 25:9-10; 27:6-7). Matthew used ktaomai only in the sense of acquiring something (not purchasing something). As such, it would make absolutely no sense for Luke to use ktaomai in his account of Jesus sending out the apostles (9:3). If he did, then he would have Jesus forbidding the apostles to “purchase” or “buy” money [“Buy nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money….”]. Thus, Luke used the more general Greek verb (airo) in order to convey the same idea that Matthew did when using the Greek verb ktaomai.

Just as ktaomai did not mean the same for Luke and Matthew, the Greek word airo (translated “take” in both Mark 6:8 and Luke 9:3) often did not mean the same for Luke and Mark (see Miller, 1997). [Understanding this simple fact eliminates the “contradiction” completely, for unless the skeptic can be certain that Mark and Luke were using the word in the same sense, he cannot prove that the accounts contradict each other.] Mark consistently used airo in other passages throughout his gospel to mean simply “take” or “pick up and carry” (2:9; 6:29; 11:23; 13:16). That Luke (in 9:3) did not mean the same sense of airo as Mark did (in 6:8) is suggested by the fact that in Luke 19:21-22 he used this same verb to mean “acquire.” [see also the visual chart in the article that is very helpful]

Now, the anti-theist atheists (who love bringing up things like this) typically respond that “well, see how hard you had to work to solve the contradiction?! It shouldn’t have to be that hard!” We agree that it shouldn’t be so hard, if one understood Greek in the first place. But for those of us who don’t know Greek, it appears contradictory, because the difference hinges upon different Greek words and even different meanings of the same Greek words (in context): just as English words usually have several definitions.

Therefore, it takes a considerable bit of explaining to clarify for the non-Greek speaker. Once that key difference is understood, the so-called “contradiction” is shown to not be one at all, because the writers are using different Greek words and meaning different things. And there are many alleged “biblical contradictions” that are resolved in this same fashion.

Making Up Details on How Many Were Fed: The scribes who put together the Gospel of Mark included two versions of the same story of Jesus feeding crowds of people with only a small number of loaves of bread and fish. The two copies are at Mark 6:32-44 and Mark 8:1-10. “They are essentially the same in every detail except the precise numbers of people present and food left over. Such figures are, of course, the easiest details to lose and confuse” as the stories were passed on from person to person. This is more proof that Mark wasn’t an eye-witness (or even close to one). 

This is untrue, and easily shown to be so. The two events took place in two entirely different locations, as the text states. The feeding of the 5,000 was near Bethsaida, which was on the north side of the Sea of Galilee (Mk 6:45; cf. Lk 9:10-17). The feeding of the 4,000, however, was a completely different story that occurred in a different place, as opposed to the fairy-tale ofessentially the same in every detail except the precise numbers of people present and food left over that the foolish skeptic Robert Price invented, and Mr. Crabtree accepts uncritically.

It occurred in “the region of the Decapolis” (Mk 7:31), which was east of the Sea of Galilee, and included the town of  Hippos, which was literally on a hill overlooking it. Immediately after the miracle, Jesus “immediately . . . got into the boat with his disciples, and went to the district of Dalmanu’tha” (Mk 8:10). Matthew 15:39, the parallel verse, states: “he got into the boat and went to the region of Mag’adan.” That would have been directly across the Sea of Galilee, and some archaeologists believe that Dalmanutha has been found, very close to Magadan, or Magdala, as I recently wrote about at lengthThere is evidence that the place where the feeding of the 4,000 occurred was near the archaeological site of Kursi. In any event, it’s clearly an entirely different place being described in the two feedings.

The two copies certainly do not represent two different events, as the disciples are surprised all-over-again in the second copy.

The disciples were continually surprised by any miracle Jesus did. This is a more-or-less common theme in every Gospel story of a miracle. They lacked faith and thought “carnally’ as Christians say, because they didn’t yet have the grace of the Holy Spirit dwelling with them (that came after Jesus’ death on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2).

It seems that the story didn’t start out as a story about Jesus anyway, as it looks like a Greek rewrite of 2 Kings 4:42-44, where Elisha also multiplies food.

Similarity to something else doesn’t prove that the second event is merely fictitious.

Mark 7’s Long Story About Unclean Food Practices Contradicts Book of Acts. Mark 7 has Jesus teach the disciples at length that the Jewish laws on food go too far. The obsession with washing hands before eating, and many other precise rules and regulations about cleanliness and uncleanliness, are not actually important. And yet, in Acts 10:14, the Disciples have forgotten the entire thing. Mark might have made-up these stories or (more likely) copied them from stories about other prophets, and rewritten them as with Jesus at their centre instead.

I dealt with this last time too:

Jesus indeed declared the principle that Peter would later publicly declare (after receiving a revelation) that all foods were clean (Acts 10:9-16): a thing shortly afterwards codified at the Jerusalem Council as applicable to all Gentile Christians (Acts 15:19-20). The difference is that Jesus did it only with His disciples (Mark 7:17-23). He wasn’t Himself proclaiming “all foods clean” in so many words (let alone publicly). He simply taught the principle underlying that thought, and Mark made his “theological” comment about it.

I would add now that the disciples didn’t (as far as the text informs us) hear Jesus specifically say in this incident recorded by Mark: “all foods are clean.” It was simply the narrator (Mark) making note of the broader point Jesus had made, summarizing it as “Thus he declared all foods clean.” This would explain why Peter was surprised to hear it more explicitly taught, in Acts 10:14. He was probably unaware that what Jesus had said in the earlier incident had the implication of changing Jewish food laws. So there is no contradiction here.

Galilee or Judea? The gospels describe where Jesus taught. Mark contradicts both Luke’s and John’s accounts:

The different Gospels simply emphasize different things and omit some things others include. There is no inexorable contradictions here. Harmonies of the Gospels (here’s an online version by A. T. Robertson) show how a non-contradictory scenario can be constructed of all of Jesus’ journeys.

Mark contradicts Luke and John on the issue of how Jesus was sentenced:

According to Matthew and Mark, Jesus was both tried and sentenced by the Jewish priests of the Sanhedrin. Luke has it that Jesus was [not] sentenced by them. Yet according to John, Jesus does not appear before the Sanhedrin at all.” [“The Jesus Mysteries” by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy (1999) ]

The ultimate sentence of crucifixion could not have been made by the Jews in any event. Only the Romans could put a man to death in that place at that time (see Jn 18:31). So Matthew records that the Sanhedrin concluded that Jesus “deserves death” (26:66), but they couldn’t sentence him. That’s why they had to send him to the Roman governor Pontius Pilate (Mt 27:1-2), who “delivered him to be crucified” (27:26). So Freke and Gandy are dead wrong in their assessment of what Matthew taught in this regard. The story in Mark is precisely the same. The Sanhedrin unanimously “condemned him as deserving death” (14:64), sent him to Pilate (15:1), who alone could sentence Him, and Pilate “delivered him to be crucified” (15:15). So the “interpretation” (to be charitable) above is dead wrong again.

Luke is no different. The Sanhedrin judged Him (as supposedly a blasphemer) in effect by saying, “What further testimony do we need? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips” (22:71). They “brought him before Pilate” (23:1), and we see them still trying to get Him killed (23:2, 5, 10, 14, 18, 21, 23). But Pilate decided (23:24-25). No essential difference whatsoever, and no contradiction. So the atheists, undaunted, and unconcerned with mere reason and never dissuaded from their aim of tearing down the Bible, simply move on to the Gospel of John, in their never-ending mocking crusade to find yet another biblical “contradiction.” What do we find there?

John reports that Jesus was first questioned by Annas: “the father-in-law of Ca’iaphas, who was high priest that year” (Jn 18:13), who “questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching ” (Jn 18:19). Annas “Annas then sent him bound to Ca’iaphas the high priest” (18:24). Then “they [implied: the Sanhedrin] led Jesus from the house of Ca’iaphas to the praetorium [where Pilate was]” (18:28). And “They answered him, “If this man were not an evildoer, we would not have handed him over” (18:30). Note that Caiaphas was present at the judgment and “monkey trial” of the Sanhedrin, as indicated by Matthew 26:57, 62, Mark (not named, but mentioned as the “high priest”: 14:53-54, 60, 63, 66), and Luke (“high priest”: 22:54).

So it’s all the same overall story, told by four storytellers, with the expected differences in detail and emphases that we would expect in any four different accounts of the same incident. Matthew and John refer directly to Caiphas the high priest as being involved (Matthew mentions also the assembly, whereas John doesn’t (directly), but still indicates their presence by the two uses of “they” in describing the Jewish leaders leading Jesus to Pilate. Mark and Luke don’t name him, but note that the “high priest” was involved, which is no contradiction.

So we see that Freke and Gandy have misrepresented the nature of all four Gospels in this regard. It’s nothing new, folks. It happens all the time, and I am demonstrating it over and over in this paper. Atheists don’t care what the biblical accounts state, because they think they are a pack of lies written by liars and propagandists, and they approach the Bible like a butcher approaches a hog. There’s no rhyme or reason in any of it; only irrational hostility: which alone can explain how they can consistently be factually and logically wrong, every time.

This is my fourth lengthy paper in the last seven days (links: one, two, three), exhaustively demonstrating that they get everything wrong when they attempt to do biblical exegesis and hermeneutics. Their efforts may look mighty impressive and convincing at first: until a biblical scholar or apologist like myself (who specializes in dealing with anti-theist / anti-biblical polemics) examines what they write and provides another side.

The gospel of Mark does not describe the history of Jesus or his virgin birth.

It doesn’t have to. Mark simply decided to start the story with John the Baptist, whom the Old Testament predicted (as a prototype of Elijah) as the forerunner of the Messiah. In other words, Mark presents the story as most people at that place and time would have witnessed or experienced it: Jesus suddenly appearing out of nowhere at His baptism and commencing His three-year ministry.

These parts of the New Testament’s stories were added by Matthew, 30 years later, who assimilated other myths into the legends.

It’s simply an atheist fairy-tale, with no basis. If they want to make ludicrous claims like this, the burden of proof is on them. But they have nothing. It’s just wild skeptical speculation.

“The accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke contradict each other, even on the parts of Christian mythology which Christians consider to be the most important: The crucifixion and resurrection. They give different sets of final words, confusingly different accounts of the empty tomb (one of them including an earthquake), and wildly different accounts of the resurrection. They’re all making it up!” [“The Crucifixion Facade” by Vexen Crabtree (2002) ]

The final words of Jesus on the cross are completely harmonious and non-contradictory, as A. T. Robertson shows in his Harmony and as many others have demonstrated. It’s not difficult to synthesize them. It just take s a little work on the chronology.

I just demonstrated in two lengthy papers that all the accusations about contradictory accounts of the empty tomb and Jesus’ resurrection are bogus and a bunch of hot air.

Mr. Crabtree then tries to establish a contradiction between Matthew 20:29-34, where it is said that Jesus healed two blind men, and Mark 10:46-52, where He is said to heal one. Gleason Archer in his Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1982, p. 333) wrote:

Matthew was concerned to mention all who were involved in this episode . . . Matthew is content to record that actual scene of healing, whereas Luke gives particular attention to the entire proceedings, from the moment that  Bartimaeus first heard about Jesus’ arrival — a feature only cursorily suggested by Mark 10:46 — because he is interested in the beggar’s persistence in request before the cure was actually performed on him. As for the second blind beggar, neither Mark nor Luke find him significant enough to mention; presumably he was the more colorless personality of the two.

No contradiction; no problem at all. Mark and Luke decide to focus on one blind man, whereas Matthew mentions a second as well. So what?

Mr. Crabtree produced a few more challenges, but I replied to 95% of his paper, and I am out of both energy and patience with tomfoolery at this point, having worked on this all day, so I will leave it here.

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Photo credit: Saint Mark (1450), by Andrea Mantegna (1431-1506) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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2021-02-07T12:45:35-04:00

Atheist anti-theist Jonathan M. S. Pearce is the main writer on the blogA Tippling Philosopher. His “About” page states: “Pearce is a philosopher, author, blogger, public speaker and teacher from Hampshire in the UK. He specialises in philosophy of religion, but likes to turn his hand to science, psychology, politics and anything involved in investigating reality.” .

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I am replying to the post on Jonathan’s site: Gospel of Mark’s Poor Jewish Knowledge (3-3-21), written mostly by Steven Carr, and extracted from another page. Steven Carr’s words will be in blue.

Time and time again, we see Matthew correcting Mark’s blunders about Judaism. Clearly Matthew was a Jew and Mark, despite Papias’ bold assertion, was not very close to the Jerusalem Church.

Most Christian Bible scholars believe that the Gospel of Mark was directed towards Gentiles, whereas the Gospel of Matthew was primarily written for a Jewish audience. I suspect that this will be most of the alleged “conflict” that Mr. Carr will be trying to “whip up” into yet more Bible contradictions. Christians believe that each Gospel had its own emphases and style. We have no problem accepting these differences. It doesn’t follow, however, that they automatically add up to “contradictions.” Let’s look and see what Mr. Carr can offer by way of argument.

Comparing Matthew 15:4 with Mark 7:10, Mark represents a more Gentile attitude in quoting the Old Testament as “Moses said” rather than “God said.” Matthew, a Jew, would never have attributed the 10 commandments to Moses. It was God who said them, as all Jews will tell you.

This is much ado about nothing. The Hebrews thought in “both/and” terms (St. Paul’s writings often reflect this). For them, the Law of Moses or Mosaic law was God’s Law.  The two are identical. It was dictated by God to Moses, who delivered it to the ancient Hebrews. The context of Mark 7:10 clearly shows this. While 7:10 has Jesus referring to “Moses said” while referring to the Ten Commandments, both 7:8 and 7:9 use the terminology “the commandment of God” in referring to the same thing. 7:10 refers to the prior notions by starting with the connecting word “For.” 7:13 also references “the word of God” in discussing the same general topic.

Nor is the converse true about Matthew, who makes references to Moses’ teachings and his (God’s) Law as well:

Matthew 8:4 (RSV) [Jesus speaking] . . . offer the gift that Moses commanded . . . 

Matthew 19:8 He [Jesus] said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.”

The parallel passage in Mark about divorce has Jesus saying:

Mark 10:3-5 He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” [4] They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away.” [5] But Jesus said to them, “For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.

Both books make reference to Moses commanding that which was God’s Law given to him. They both do both things. It’s not one vs. the other. St. Paul continues the “both/and” practice in his epistles, since he refers to the “law of Moses” twice (Acts 13:39; 1 Cor 9:9) and the synonymous “law of God” twice (Rom 7:22, 25). Moreover, in the Old Testament (not including the Deuterocanon), “law of Moses” is used 13 times, and “law of God” four times, as well as the similar “law of the LORD” another 18 times. We must conclude, then, that this point of argument is a false dichotomy. Context and cross-referencing demolish it.

Mark 5:22: “One of the rulers of the synagogue.” Diaspora synagogues may sometimes have had more than ruler, as at Pisidian Antioch (Acts 13:15), but Palestinian synagogues normally had only one. Matthew 9:18, drops this phrase.

There were indeed multiple “rulers” of Jewish synagogues at this time, as the following article establishes:

I. In one respect the ancient service of the synagogue differed very considerably both from that of a modern Christian service and from the service of the modern synagogue: The principal parts of the service were taken not by permanent officers of the synagogue, but by members chosen from the congregation after it had assembled. The permanent officers of the body included the Zequenim, “rulers of the synagogue ” (Mark 5:22; Acts 13: 15) who had judicial functions as well as religious, and a Chazzan, or ” attendant ” (Luke 4:20), who had charge of the building and in the service performed functions somewhat like those of a deacon in a modern non-ritualistic church. The service was under the direction of the Rosh-ka-Kenesetl or chief ruler (Luke 13 : 14), though his share in the service was for the most part a silent one. (“The Ancient Synagogue Service”Ernest De Witt Burton, The Biblical World, Aug., 1896, citation from p. 144)

Somehow Mark got that right after all. Matthew 9:18 using “a ruler” doesn’t prove that Jairus was a sole ruler, anyway, since a sub-group of [plural] rulers (Zequenim) would be consistent with one of them being called a “ruler.” So this “point” really proves nothing at all.

Mark 14:12: On the first day of unleavened bread when they sacrificed the Passover, confuses Nisan 15 with Nisan 14. Naturally, Matthew 26:17 drops the phrase “when they sacrificed the Passover”. Was Mark a Jew who did not know about the Passover?

Matthew 26:17 also states: “on the first day of Unleavened Bread” and the disciples “prepare” the Passover, which they observe with Jesus that same night (26:17-21). No difference whatsoever, that I can see. Luke, definitely a Gentile, writes precisely as Mark does:

Luke 22:7-8 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the passover lamb had to be sacrificed. [8] So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the passover for us, that we may eat it.”

Jesus then says: “I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer;” (22:15). For further clarification see: “The Date of the Passover Sacrifices and Mark 14:12” by Maurice Casey (Tyndale Bulletin 48.2 [1997]). Apologist Jeff Miller adds:

The Passover lamb was to be killed at twilight (i.e., sunset) on the evening of the 14th day of Nisan, the first month of the Jewish calendar (Ezekiel 45:21). The lamb was then to be eaten that same night with unleavened bread (Exodus 12:6-8; Numbers 28:16-17; Leviticus 23:5-7), leaving none of it until morning—burning any remains (Exodus 12:10). Unleavened bread was then to be eaten every day until the 21st day of the month at evening (Exodus 12:18). No leavened bread was even to be in an Israelite house for that week, or those individuals would be “cut off from the congregation of Israel” (Exodus 12:19).

The language of Matthew, Mark, and Luke leaves little doubt that the Passover lamb was killed by the apostles on Thursday afternoon of the crucifixion week, which was the 14th of Nisan, and that Jesus then immediately ate the Passover meal that evening on the 15th of Nisan in keeping with the Law of Moses (cf. Matthew 26:17-21; Mark 14:12,16-18; Luke 22:7-9).

Mark 14:13 says that the disciples were to be met by a man carrying a pitcher of water. Matthew 26:18 drops the idea that a Jewish man would do a woman’s work.

Luke 22:10 also indicates a man carrying water. Matthew simply doesn’t mention it. Silence on or omission of a matter is not logically the same as a contradiction. It was customary in ancient Israel for women to carry water jugs on their heads, I agree. But I don’t see that men were forbidden to do so, or that it is solely “woman’s work.” Hence, Deuteronomy 29:11 refers to “he who draws your water.” Here is a plausible explanation of what was going on in these Bible passages:

A man walking around with a jar of water was a very unusual sight, as this was ordinarily women’s work. Why would a man be carrying a water jar in Jerusalem? The only group of Jewish men that traditionally did carry water jars were Essenes. Essenes were mostly celibate, and their men did women’s work. They had their communities, not only in Qumran, but in various towns. They also had a community in Jerusalem.

One of Jerusalem’s gates was called “the Gate of the Essenes”. It was through this gate that they entered their community. When Jesus told His disciples that they will see a man carrying a water jar, he knew they would enter through the Essenes’ gate. Entering through this gate was crucial to finding a room for the Passover meal. The Essenes’ calendar was different than the regular Jewish one, and, therefore, they still had available guest rooms. (“The Man with the Jar of Water: The Jewish Background of 
the New Testament”)

Mark 15:42, “When evening was already come, because it was Friday (paraskeue) that is, the day before the sabbath …” . This means “either that Friday began with that sunset, and Jesus had died on Thursday; or else, the evangelist forgot [or did not know] that the Jewish day began at evening.” Matthew 27:57-62 clarifies Mark’s confusion over Jewish days. Interestingly, the NIV tries to translate the problem away by writing for Mark 15:42 ‘So as evening approached“, rather than “and when evening had come“, as the RSV has it.

Apologist John Fraser writes:

What must be noted, however, is that all four Gospels say explicitly or implicitly that Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation. In Mark we read this of the evening after the crucifixion: “When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath . . .” (Mark 15:42). So Mark explicitly says that Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation, agreeing with John. Luke is also explicit, giving this statement about when Jesus was taken down from the cross and buried: “It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin” (Luke 23:54). Thus Luke also agrees that Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation. Finally, Matthew directly implies the same thing in Mat. 27:62): “Now on the next day, the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate . . .” Matthew says that the day after the crucifixion was the day after the preparation, which means Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation just as Mark, Luke, and John also say. Mark’s Gospel includes the explanatory note that the preparation day was the day before the Sabbath, which would mean Friday. It’s also worth noting that the Greek word for preparation (paraskeue) is the modern Greek name for Friday. Thus the most likely reading is that all four Gospels say that Jesus was crucified on the Friday of Passover week. But John and the Synoptics are in full agreement on this point. (“The Discrepancies of Bart Ehrman Examined”, Christian Apologetics Alliance, 11-2-12) 

Catholic apologist Karlo Broussard elaborates:

The phrase “day of Preparation” is a Jewish idiom for Friday, the day that Jews made preparations for observance of the weekly Sabbath.

All three Synoptics use the idiom this way and say Jesus died on that day. Mark is explicit: “And when evening had come, since it [the day Jesus was crucified and died] was the day of Preparation [Greek, paraskeuē], that is, the day before the Sabbath” (Mark 15:42; emphasis added).

Luke is explicit as well. In reference to the day of Jesus’s crucifixion and death, he writes, “It was the day [hēmera] of preparation [paraskeuēs], and the sabbath was beginning” (Luke 23:54).

Matthew’s use of paraskeuē is a bit more implicit. He identifies the day Jesus died to be “the day of preparation” (Matt. 27:62). (“The Timing of Jesus’ Death”, Catholic Answers, 4-8-20)

Much ado about nothing (as almost always with these atheist “contradictions”). This one is so desperate that Mr. Carr sinks to claiming thatthe NIV tries to translate the problem away.” There is no problem in the first place! The Greek word involved, ginomai (Strong’s word #1096) has a wide range of meanings, as one can readily see by following the link I just provided (which gives all 671 New Testament occurrences). The basis meaning is “to come into being, to happen, to become.” But the application of the word is so wide in its subtleties and nuances that here is how many ways that the NASB (similar to the RSV: I have done massive Bible-reading in both versions) translated this one word:

accomplished (1), appeared (3), arise (1), arises (2), arose (6), arrived (3), became (53), become (83), becomes (8), becoming (2), been (12), been brought (1), been done (1), been made (2), been…came (1), began (1), behaved (1), being (2), come into being (1), being carried (1), being done (2), being made (2), born (5), breaking* (1), came (45), came into being (2), came to pass (2), come (16), comes (1), comes to pass (1), coming (1), dawn (1), decided* (1), developing (1), done (20), drawing (1), during (1), elapsed (1), existed* (1), falling (1), feeling (1), fell (6), finished (1), followed (1), formed (3), found (2), get (4), give (1), got (1), granted (1), grown* (1), had (1), happen (6), happened (46), happening (5), happens (3), has (3), join* (1), joined (3), made (15), occur (3), occurred (18), performed (4), prove (7), proved (6), proving (1), put (1), reached (2), realized (1), results (2), show (1), spent (1), split (1), spoken (1), starting (1), take place (16), taken (2), taken place (5), takes place (1), taking place (3), there arose (1), thundered* (1), took place (7), turned (1), turns (3), would (1).

One can readily see that “approached” and “had come” are well within the range of possible translations. It’s the translator’s judgment. The NIV rendering is a minority position among translators but still seems quite permissible, in light of the above. I found four others that had similar renderings:

Good News getting on toward evening

Barclay already late in the day

Kleist & Lilly now late in the afternoon

Weymouth towards sunset

But to accuse a team of translators (and now, in effect, five different ones) of deliberate distortion for the sake of a nefarious agenda is really stretching it: especially with a word like ginomai.

Mark 15:46 says that that same evening Joseph of Arimathea “bought a linen cloth.” Matthew drops the idea of a Jew buying something on the Sabbath. No Jew could have made that mistake.

This, too, is a nothing burger. I dealt with this very charge just two days ago in my previous reply to Jonathan. For readers’ convenience, I’ll paste it here:

Theology Web hosted a discussion on this non-issue (“Joseph of Arimathea Buying Linen On Passover?”) in which one of the commenters shredded this “gotcha” question:

The imagined issue here is that it was illegal to work and to buy or sell goods on Passover per the following passages: [cites Ex 12:16; Lev 23:6-7; Neh 10:31]

Joseph, who was prominent on the council, would appear to be publicly breaking Jewish law by buying linen on Passover, and he couldn’t do it on the Sabbath (which was the next day) either. There appear to be a number of solutions to this issue though. So, starting with NT scholar Harold Hoehner, “The purchases of Joseph of Arimathea were proper for necessities could be obtained on the Sabbath (and on a feast day).” His source for this is Mishnah Shabbath 23.4[:] “One may await the dusk at the limits of the techoom, to furnish what is necessary for a bride and for a corpse, and to bring a coffin and shrouds for the latter.” “By ‘techoom’ is meant the distance of 2,000 ells [7,500 feet] which a man may traverse on the Sabbath, and refers to the limits of that distance.”

Hoehner also cites Gustaf Dalman’s Jesus – Jeshua: Studies in the Gospels (1929), where Dalman points out that these were extenuating circumstances. A criminal who had been hung (crucifixion was a type of hanging) had to be buried by nightfall to prevent the land from being defiled and burial on the Sabbath was likely not permitted. The body couldn’t lay out in the hot Judean environment for two days. It had to be buried,

So it turns out — again — that Mark is quite Jewish indeed: as Jewish as the Talmud. Mr. Carr just didn’t dig deep enough. He is, in the end, simply ignorant as to the matters under discussion (and I will continue to demonstrate this as I proceed). His only goal is to tear the Bible down, and anything goes towards that end.

Mark 1:2 wrongly ascribes Malachi 3:1 to Isaiah. Matthew 3:3 corrects this.

The Thinking and Believing site answers this:

Mark quotes from Malachi and Isaiah, and the first quotation is from Malachi.

Some people allege that the writer of Mark’s Gospel simply misattributed the quote. In other words, Mark simply got it wrong.

But there are good reasons for thinking otherwise. And the reasons are not simply the desperate maneuvers of evangelicals trying to defend a high view of Scripture. They are reasons based on the literary conventions of the time.

A nice summary of the reasons to think that Mark was not making a mistake in Mark 1:2 is given here. It’s written by Rikk E. Watts, a New Testament scholar at Regent College in Vancouver.

Here’s a brief sketch of his reasons for thinking that Mark didn’t make a mistake:

  1. Throughout Mark’s Gospel, we see Old Testament passages being combined into one quotation, with each passage being used to interpret the other passage.
  2. When using a composite quotations, it was common practice to cite the most important passage. The most important passage would be the one that was being used to shed light on the other passage(s).
  3. Why, then, was Malachi quoted first? Why not first quote the more important passage? The Malachi passage has a more prominent use of “messenger.” Also, the Malachi passage has the “Behold…” statement, which fits best at the beginning of the quotation.

I encourage you to read Watts’ more detailed explanation.

Matthew doesn’t “correct” Mark, because Matthew simply cited Isaiah only (40:3). He omitted the Malachi portion (3:1; cf. 4:5) that Mark included, per the literary customs of the time, as explained above. It was fine and dandy for Matthew to cite Isaiah only, and equally permissible for Mark to cite Isaiah and Malachi and refer to it under the name of one prophet.

Once again, one must become more familiar with the culture and customs of that time and place to properly understand these things (which was the topic of a recent paper of mine).

In Mark 2:7 the teachers of the law complain that Jesus is forgiving sins and say ‘Who can forgive sins but God alone?’. Jews did not think that. Matthew 9:3 drops the phrase. There is a Dead Sea Scroll called ‘The Prayer of Nabonidus'(4Q242) , written and copied by Jews, where it is said by Nabonidus ‘… an exorcist pardoned my sins. He was a Jew…’. Jews did believe that God could give authority to men to forgive sin.

Luke also has “Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only?” (5:21). These men had a point, from Scripture:

Exodus 34:6-7 . . . “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, [7] keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin . . . (cf. Num 14:20)

1 Kings 8:34 then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, . . . 

Psalm 25:7, 11, 18 Remember not the sins of my youth, or my transgressions; according to thy steadfast love remember me, for thy goodness’ sake, O LORD!. . . [11] For thy name’s sake, O LORD, pardon my guilt, for it is great. . . . [18] . . . forgive all my sins. (cf. 32:1-2, 5; 51:9; 65:3; 79:9; 85:2; 99:8; 103:12; 130:4)

Isaiah 43:25 “I, I am He who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.” (cf. 1:18; 6:6; 44:22; 55:7)

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like thee, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression

Jesus, being God, could of course forgive, but He also appointed his disciples (the models of priests) to be able to forgive the sins of people (absolution) as His representative (Mt 18:18; Jn 20:23; 2 Cor 2:10). Similarly, Moses made “atonement” for his people’s sin even in the old covenant (Ex 32:30-32; Num 14:19-23; 16:46-48), and others like Phinehas (Num 25:6-13) and Nathan (2 Sam 12:13-14) did the same. This is what these men missed. It’s more of the Hebrew “both/and” way of thinking. This explains what Mr. Carr thinks is a conundrum or contradiction.  It’s true that no one “can forgive sins but God alone.” It’s also true that God can exercise this forgiveness through agents or representatives.

But (here’s the clincher) Matthew 9:3 is not expressing anything different from Mark and Luke in the first place:

Matthew 9:2-3 And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” [3] And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.”

Now why is it that the scribes thought Jesus was “blaspheming”? Obviously because He forgave this man’s sins! This was obviously Matthew’s thrust in his version of the same story. If they thought that was blasphemy, then they must have been thinking of Old Testament passages like the ones above, showing that only God can do so. And it would mean, furthermore (so they thought), that Jesus was somehow claiming to be God in so doing.

The meaning in Matthew is precisely the same as in Mark and Luke, by inexorable deductive reasoning: He’s “blaspheming” because He was forgiving sins: something only God (broadly speaking) could do. What they had wrong was not that idea (we ultimately transgress against God when we commit any sin), but rather, the notion of a man representing God in forgiving men: something already seen in the Old Testament. They (presumably) didn’t know Jesus was claiming to be God yet at this point.

Mark 2:26 – Abiathar should be Ahimelech. Matthew 12:1-8 does not repeat the mistake. Incidentally, if Jesus was thinking of 1 Sam. 21:1-8 when he said that David and those who were with him were hungry, then, in his omniscience, he forgot that David was on the run alone and the story that David told Ahimelech was a falsehood – David was not on a mission from the king and he did not have an appointment with any young men.

Apologists Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe explain this:

First Samuel is correct in stating that the high priest was Ahimelech. On the other hand neither was Jesus wrong. When we take a closer look at Christ’s words we notice that He used the phrase “in the days of Abiathar” (v. 26) which does not necessarily imply that Abiathar was high priest at the time David ate the bread. After David met Ahimelech and ate the bread, King Saul had Ahimelech killed (1 Sam. 22:17–19). Abiathar escaped and went to David (v. 20) and later took the place of the high priest. So even though Abiathar was made high priest after David ate the bread, it is still correct to speak in this manner. After all, Abiathar was alive when David did this, and soon following he became the high priest after his father’s death. Thus, it was during the time of Abiathar, but not during his tenure in office.

At least six major Bible translations back up this interpretation. KJV and NKJV have “in the days of Abiathar” while NIV, NASB, NEB, and REB have “in the time of Abiathar”. Apologist Eric Lyons adds:

If someone today were to speak of how many Christians were imprisoned “in the days of Paul, the apostle,” it may be that he actually was referring to the time before Paul became an apostle, yet still referred to him as “Paul, the apostle.” Such language would not force one to conclude that the reference to the imprisonment of Christians must be confined to the time when Paul was an apostle. Similarly, since Jesus did not specifically say that Abiathar was the high priest who ministered to David, but simply that the event occurred during the lifetime of Abiathar (who later became the high priest), the allegation that Jesus erred is superfluous.

Lyons also tackles the bit about Jesus supposedly being wrong concerning David being with others during the showbread incident, etc.:

Ahimelech first asked David when the future king of Israel came unto him: “Why are you alone, and no one is with you” (1 Samuel 21:1)? If one were to stop at this point without considering subsequent verses, he may very well come to the conclusion that Jesus blundered in His reference to the events in 1 Samuel 21:1. However, following Ahimelech’s question (“Why are you alone?”), David informed him, “I have directed my young men to such and such a place” (21:2). Thus, although David may have entered the presence of Ahimelech without his men, he informed Ahimelech that he had directed them elsewhere while he visited with him. Ahimelech obviously understood David to mean that the men were not too far away, and were hungry, because he informed David that although he had no common bread to eat, there was holy bread, “if the young men have at least kept themselves from women” (21:4, emp. added). David responded by saying, “Truly, women have been kept from us…. And the vessels of the young men are holy” (21:5, emp. added).

To assert that Jesus erred in these two instances is to claim that which cannot be proven. The truth is, Jesus referred to this Old Testament event in a way very similar to how we converse today about various matters—whether using a figure of speech, called prolepsis, where we assign a name or title to a time that precedes it, or where we refer to someone being alone in one sense, and a part of a larger group at the same time. Such accusations appear to say more about the heart of the critic than the truthfulness of Jesus and the Bible writers.

Thus, context, and the usage of words resolves this alleged :difficulty.” Word of advice to anyone who attempts biblical exegesis: always (did I say, “always“?) — consult context (and cross-referencing is almost as important, too). Failing to do so will cause no end of embarrassment if someone of a different view critiques your stuff. Mr. Carr made reference to 1 Samuel 21:1-8. We can reasonably assume, then, that he actually read it. But if so, how could he possibly miss David’s allusion to companions in 21:2, 4, and 5? Only he can answer that if he ever replies to this (which isn’t likely). David also asked for “five loaves of bread, or whatever is here” (21:3). All Mr. Carr had to do was read and make an elementary logical deduction, to figure out that David wasn’t alone. He simply went alone to see the high priest.

It’s true that David “was not on a mission from the king”. He lied about it, as most commentaries affirm. But Jesus didn’t condone the lie; He referred only to eating the showbread. So that aspect is neither here nor there. Mr. Carr opines: “David . . . did not have an appointment with any young men.” The relevant text, on the other hand, reports David saying: “I have made an appointment with the young men for such and such a place” (1 Sam 21:2). Take your pick. I go with the Bible meself. I certainly don’t (so far) have much confidence in Mr. Carr’s ability to accurately and ably exegete biblical texts, with the showing he has made thus far. I’m not done with my analysis yet, and am answering as I read (as I often do), but I predict that he will do no better in his remaining examples.

Mark 10:19 misquotes the Ten Commandments and inserts an extra commandment: “Do not defraud.” 

This is just silly. Jesus is adding nothing. He lists the five famous “thou shalt nots”: murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, and then says “do not defraud” instead of “do not covet.” It’s essentially the same thing. Merriam-Webster defines defraud as “to deprive of something by deception.” This is what comes as a result of covetousness. The same source defines covet as “to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably.” Jesus is always forward-looking in His application of the Jewish Law. This is similar to His teaching on the Sermon on the Mount: always going deeper:

Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.’ [28] But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I think a similar “deeper analysis / getting to the heart or root of the matter” is going on here, as if Jesus is saying (by strong implication): “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not defraud’ [see, e.g., Lev 19:13] But I say to you that every one who covets has already committed defrauding in his heart.” HenceBarnes’ Notes on the Bible comments:

Defraud not – Do not take away your neighbor’s property by fraud or dishonesty. To “cheat” or “defraud,” supposes a covetous desire of a neighbor’s property, and is usually attended with “falsehood” or “false witness” against a neighbor in obtaining it. It is thus a violation of the ninth and tenth commandments; and our Saviour very properly, therefore, “condensed the two,” and expressed their substance in this – not to defraud.

So “defraud not” is not “an extra commandment”: it’s an application of one or more existing ones, just as Jesus taught that lust was a variant — and indeed precursor — of adultery. He wanted to convey the heart-level roots of sin; not just the outward observance of moral laws.

Matthew 19:18-20 sticks to the original 10, plus the one that many Rabbis regarded as a summary of the commandments.

Matthew reports Jesus as noting (like Mark) murder, adultery, stealing, and false witness as part of the Ten Commandments. Then He mentions one more: “Honor your father and mother.” Then He mentions a precept that is not one of the Ten Commandments, but nevertheless might be said to sum up all of them: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” He didn’t name all ten here, anymore than He is said to have done in Mark.

In Mark He named four, then another which is either arguably referring to “do not covet” or else is a summation of several of the Ten Commandments. In Matthew He names the same four, adds one more, and then also a summation of several (or all) of the Ten Commandments (which Mr. Carr agrees is the case). I don’t see much difference here at all: if at all; certainly not contradictory difference. It’s much ado about nothing (what else is new?). So we move on to the next misguided bum rap . . . 

Mark 15:34 has Jesus quoting Psalm 22:1 in Aramaic (Eloi). Had Jesus done this, bystanders could hardly have supposed that he was calling for Elijah. Jesus must have used Hebrew Eli, as at Matthew 27:46. The NIV tries to harmonize Matthew and Mark here by using Eloi in both places.

The Christianty.stackexchange site provides a very helpful reply:

The New Testament was written in Greek, but the Greek text records Jesus’ words in Aramaic (in Mark, Hebrew in Matthew). The Gospel writers transliterated the Aramaic (Mk 15) and Hebrew (Mt 27) into the Greek script.

It is important here to distinguish between script and language. For instance, I can write in Spanish, Latin, German, English, etc. all with (basically) the same Latin script, even though the languages are all different. And likewise, I can take the Hebrew word אֶל and transliterate it into Latin characters, ʾel. The language is still Hebrew, but the script is Latin.

Short answer: It’s Aramaic (or Hebrew in Matthew) transliterated into the Greek script. Since the text provides a Greek translation immediately thereafter, it makes sense that the translators would retain it.

The question at hand then becomes: which language was Jesus actually speaking from the cross in this instance? Both sides can make a good case, I think. Jesus normally spoke Aramaic, as most Jews in Israel in the first century did (this is — we might say — the Mark version). But in citing Old Testament Scripture, as He did here, one might argue that He would have cited it in the original Hebrew (the Matthew version). Matthew, in fact, reproduces the Hebrew text which is found in Psalm 22:1. The Hebrew version (importantly) seems to be more in line with hearers thinking He was calling for the prophet Elijah (I am in partial agreement with Mr. Carr in this respect). Eloi is never a designation for Elijah the prophet, whereas Eli is.

Christianity Today adds to the frustrating (but rather fascinating) confusion:

Q: In what language was the Bible Jesus read?

A: If, as most scholars today believe, Jesus spoke primarily in Aramaic, though he sometimes might have also used Greek and perhaps even Hebrew, what Bible was he likely to have read and heard read in the synagogue? The answer is that he likely heard Scripture read in Hebrew and occasionally in Greek, and then paraphrased and interpreted in Aramaic. How much of this paraphrase was actually written down in Jesus’ day is difficult to tell. It is probably safer to assume that most of this Aramaic tradition circulated orally and only generations later was committed to writing.

We’re still left with the same question: Was Jesus speaking Hebrew in citing Psalm 22:1 on the cross (Matthew) or paraphrasing Psalm 22:1 and speaking Aramaic, as He usually did (Mark)? Even the two variant readings in these Gospels don’t definitively settle the question, since they simply chose to transliterate variously from Aramaic and Hebrew, but neither version proves what was actually spoken by Jesus.  Jesus definitely didn’t speak modern English, but this is how we Americans read what He said (which is the point).  

Even if in fact Jesus spoke Hebrew in this instance, due to citing the Old Testament, it doesn’t automatically make Mark’s Gospel and his rendering here a “lie” or incompetent. Obviously, he chose to transliterate in Aramaic because that’s what Jesus normally spoke. There’s nothing wrong or unethical or incompetent in that. In the end, I’m inclined that Jesus spoke Hebrew in this instance because he cited Hebrew Scripture, and because of the “Elijah” argument. But I don’t think this proves some error or misleading on Mark’s part. I agree with the following apologetics analysis as to why I take the position I do:

Jesus probably spoke it in Hebrew. Why therefore is it recorded in Aramaic as well? Jesus was part of a multilingual society. He most probably spoke Greek (the common language of Greece and Rome), Aramaic (the common language of the Ancient Near East) and Hebrew, the sacred tongue of Judaism, which had been revived in the form of Mishnaic Hebrew in Second Temple times. Hebrew and Aramaic are closely related Semitic languages. That Hebrew and Aramaic terms show up in the Gospels is, therefore, not at all surprising.

That one Gospel writer records it in Hebrew and another in extremely similar Aramaic is no problem to Christians, nor is it a criticism of the Bible. The simple reason for the difference is probably that when one of them remembered and discussed the happening of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection, this phrase may well have been repeated in their conversation as Aramaic, which would be perfectly normal. So he wrote it down as such.

Mark 7:31 says that Jesus and his disciples journeyed “out from the borders of Tyre … through Sidon, to the sea of Galilee, through the midst of the borders”. The journey described is like “travelling from Cornwall to London by way of Manchester” (Anderson, H. The Gospel of Mark, NCB (London, 1976).

Craig Dunkley, from the Logic & Light site, shreds this:

[I]t’s entirely possible that Jesus had some reason for going to Sidon before heading down to the Sea of Galilee!  The narrative simply doesn’t give us enough information to know for sure.  Jesus had been travelling around the region, and Sidon may have been a planned part of his circuit.  To automatically presume that the author made an error strikes me as bias in the extreme. . . . 

[Dave: even a quick perusal of a map of the missionary journeys of Paul confirms that long, ongoing journeys of religious mission are often “jagged” in their routes] 

[S]cholar Tim McGrew adds yet another piece of information.  He reminds us that there is a mountain (Mt. Meron) standing nearly 4,000 feet high directly between Tyre and the Sea of Galilee.  He adds: “There is a pass from Sidon through the mountains to the Jordan river valley, where foot travelers to Galilee could have fresh water for the journey.”  According to McGrew, it would have been easier for Jesus to go a bit out of his way to avoid climbing Mt. Meron and to remain close to fresh water for the journey. [Alleged Historical Errors in the Gospels (Matthew & Mark), 5-21-12]

Mark 8:10 refers to the “the district of Dalmanutha.” As far as is known, there was no such place in Galilee. (The difficulty was recognized early because there are many textual variants in the manuscripts.)

Commentators freely admit that there is little known about this place-name from Mark. I don’t see, however, that this is proof that such a town never existed. Many biblical places or items previously mysterious have ben illuminated by scores of archaeological findings. Matthew 15:39, the parallel verse, gives us our only biblical geographical clue: “he got into the boat and went to the region of Mag’adan.” That provides at least something to work with and from. Magadan is an alternate name for Magdala: where Mary Magdalene was from. This town is known to have been located on the western shore of the Sea of Galilee: between biblical Capernaum and Tiberias.

It so happens that archaeologists have indeed found an ancient town that fits the bill, and “may be Dalmanutha”: since it was “about 500 feet (150 meters) away from” Magdala (“Biblical-Era Town Discovered Along Sea of Galilee”, Owen Jarus, LiveScience, 9-16-13). So if Matthew can be trusted, and Dalmanutha was in “the region of Magadan” then this could very well be Dalmanutha. Moreover:

The archaeologists also determined that a famous boat, dating to around 2,000 years ago, and uncovered in 1986, was found on the shoreline of the newly discovered town. 

Mark reports that Jesus departed a town after feeding the 4,000 and “getting into the boat again he departed to the other side” [of the Sea of Galilee] (8:13). There is evidence that the place where this feeding occurred was near the archaeological site of Kursi, on the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee. (I visited this location in 2014). If so, it is almost directly across from Magdala and what may be Dalmanutha. This would harmonize with Matthew’s report of Jesus departing “to the other side”. Works for me . . . The archaeology and the biblical details line up perfectly.

Mark 5:1 specifies that the eastern side of the lake of Galilee is the country of the Gerasenes. This is more than 30 miles from a lake. This caused a lot of confusion as can be seen by the variety of names in the texts here. Matthew changed Mark’s Gerasenes to Gadarenes in Matthew 8:28. Gadara was a well-known spa only eight miles from the lake.

I dealt with this at great length, twice:

Gadarenes, Gerasenes, Swine, & Atheist Skeptics (7-25-17)

Demons, Gadara, & Biblical Numbers (vs. JMS Pearce) (12-18-20)

Mark 6:14-27 repeatedly refers to Herod Antipas as a “king.” Matthew commits this error only once (14:9). The correct title ‘tetrarch’ appears in Matthew 14:1, Luke 3:19, Luke 9:7, Acts 13:1, but not once in Mark’s Gospel.

James S. Jeffers provides an adequate reply:

The references in Mark and Matthew to Antipas as “King Herod” . . . follow the habit of the local people, who referred to him as king even though he never rose above the level of tetrarch. (The Greco-Roman World of the New Testament EraExploring the Background of Early Christianity, Intervarsity Press, 2009, p. 125)

So Mark simply chose to use the language of the common people, while Matthew validly used both titles: “tetrarch” in 14:1 and eight verses later, “the king.” The same duality of titles had happened in the case of John Hyrcanus II (d. 30 BC), who had actually been the King of Judea in 67-66 BC but only the ethnarch in the period of roughly 47-40 BC; yet was still called “king” by the masses during that time. 

Mark 6:17 says that Antipas married the wife of his brother Philip. According to Josephus, Antiquities.18.5.4, she was actually the wife of a different brother.

Matthew 14:3 states the same thing, so this is not a “Mark vs. Matthew” scenario. I thank Mr. Carr for the Josephus reference, for it solves the “problem.” Here is the relevant portion of it:

Herodias, their sister, was married to Herod [Philip], the son of Herod the Great; who was born of Mariamne, the daughter of Simon the High Priest; who had a daughter Salome. After whose birth Herodias took upon her to confound the laws of our country, and divorced her self from her husband, while he was alive, and was married to Herod [Antipas], her husband’s brother by the father’s side. He was tetrarch of Galilee.

It’s confusing, I know. Wikipedia states about this “Herod II”:

the son of Herod the Great and Mariamne II, the daughter of Simon Boethus the High Priest. For a brief period he was his father’s heir. Some writers call him Herod Philip I (not to be confused with Philip the Tetrarch, whom some writers call Herod Philip II).

Herod was the first husband of Herodias, and because the Gospel of Mark 6:17 states that Herodias was married to Philip, some scholars have argued that his name was actually Herod Philip. 

Hastings’ Dictionary of the New Testament (“Herodias”) adds:

Herodias was the daughter of Aristobulus (son of Herod the Great and Mariamne the Hasmonaean) and Bernice (daughter of Salome, Herod’s sister, and Costobar), and thus the full sister of Herod, king of Chalcis, and Agrippa i. (Ant. xviii. v. 4). She married first her half-uncle Herod, son of Herod the Great and Mariamne, the high priest’s daughter. In Mark 6:17 and Matthew 14:3 the first husband of Herodias is called Philip, the brother of Herod (Antipas). This Philip, therefore, most probably bore also the name ‘Herod’ (as did also his brothers Archelaus and Antipas), and is to be distinguished from Philip the tetrarch (Luke 3:1; cf. Matthew 16:13Mark 8:27), who married Salome, the daughter of Herod Philip and Herodias (Ant. xviii. v. 4).

Now it’s even more confusing! The brackets in the translation of Josephus above (from the translator/editor, not Josephus) call him “Philip” just as in the same way “Antipas” is added in brackets (both men also being named Herod and called that by Josephus). That would seem to legitimize Mark’s usage of “Philip” as a name for this person. Wayne Jackson deals with name question and Mark and Matthew in relation to Josephus:

The fact that Josephus does not call him “Philip” means nothing. There is no legitimate cause for disputing Matthew and Mark merely on the silence of Josephus.

Furthermore, as a general observation, we may note that the Gospel writers are much better known for their accuracy than is Josephus.

This “Herod,” mentioned by Josephus, could also have had the name “Philip,” just as the “Herod” who murdered John was also called Antipas, and the “Herod” who killed James was known as Agrippa as well (Acts 12:1ff).

There is, therefore, no legitimate cause for questioning the New Testament narrative which identifies the initial husband of Herodias as “Philip.”

Mark 13:17-19 fails to urge Jesus’ followers to pray that they do not have to flee on the sabbath (compare Matthew 24:20).

So what? Mark didn’t mention one clause that Matthew mentions. Big wow. I’m tired of dealing with silence of one Gospel writer as supposedly some big “evidence” of a contradiction or one Gospel being inferior to another. These things prove nothing more than the fact that two writers, dealing with the same subject matter (whether they are inspired and writing Scripture or not), will present it in various different ways.

Mr. Carr thinks this is significant in showing that Matthew was much more Jewish than Mark, and that Mark was deficient. All it really shows, however, is that in a Gospel written primarily for Gentile readers, the aspect of the Sabbath was far less important, and so need not have been included. He may have been selective, in terms of the full sentiment that Jesus expressed, but there is no law saying that absolutely every word of a subject must be recorded or is required. The Gospel of John makes note of the necessary selectivity of Gospel writers, in its last verse (21:25): “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”

But it’s not like Mark never mentions the Sabbath. In fact, he mentions it eleven times, which is actually one more time than Matthew does (and in twelve less chapters, to boot). Therefore, it’s pretty silly for Mr. Carr trying to argue that Matthew’s Gospel is more Jewish than Mark’s Gospel in this respect.  Luke was also concentrated on Gentiles, yet he mentioned the Sabbath 18 times, more than half again as much as Matthew and Mark, and almost as much as the two combined. So Mr. Carr’s theory in this instance falls completely flat, just as it has been shown to be false in every other example above.

Mark 2:23-28 lacks the appeal to the Mosaic Law found in Matthew 12:5.

This is factually untrue. Mark mentions “not lawful” in 2:24 and 2:26. That’s referring to the Mosaic Law, of course: as is the Sabbath, mentioned in 2:23-24, 27-28.  Thus, the law of Moses is all through the passage, for those who look to see in the first place. Matthew’s parallel passage does much the same: he mentions the term “lawful” twice just as Mark does (12:2, 4). All he adds is “have you not read in the law?” (12:5), making the same point in a different way about supposedly — as the Pharisees wrongly thought — (but not really) breaking the Sabbath.

Mark 7:19b, a comment by the evangelist, asserts that Jesus “declared all foods clean.” Matthew 15:20 drops this. It is inconceivable that Jesus would have abolished the food laws without his opponents ever once mentioning that in accusations.

Jesus indeed declared the principle that Peter would later publicly declare (after receiving a revelation) that all foods were clean (Acts 10:9-16): a thing shortly afterwards codified at the Jerusalem Council as applicable to all Gentile Christians (Acts 15:19-20). The difference is that Jesus did it only with His disciples (Mark 7:17-23). He wasn’t Himself proclaiming “all foods clean” in so many words (let alone publicly). He simply taught the principle underlying that thought, and Mark made his “theological” comment about it. 

Mark 9:4 names Elijah before Moses. Naturally, Matthew 17:3 puts Moses before Elijah, as Moses is far more important to Jews than Elijah.

Mark isn’t implying Elijah’s superiority; quite the opposite. He says, “there appeared to them Eli’jah with Moses.” That way of referring to their relation shows the preeminence of Moses. Peter, speaking in the next verse, then puts Moses before Elijah, in suggesting that booths could be made for them.

Mark 11:10 refers to the kingdom [of] our father David. No Jew would have referred to our father David. The father of the nation was Abraham, or possibly Jacob, who was renamed Israel. Not all Jews were sons of David. Naturally, Matthew 21:9 does not refer to our father David.

Nonsense. There is Jewish / Hebrew precedent:

2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz was twenty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem. And he did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD his God, as his father David had done, (cf. 2 Chr 28:1) [Ahaz — as is estimated by scholars — reigned from somewhere between 744-715 BC: some 250 years after King David] 

Acts 4:25 . . . our father David . . . [Peter speaking]

“Your father Abraham” only appears once in the Old Testament: God talking to Joshua (Josh 24:3; not counting Jacob referring to his grandfather: Gen 32:9). “Father Abraham” appears seven times in the New Testament, including four times from the Gentile Luke. But I’m not claiming that “father David” is more prominent in Scripture than “father Abraham.” I’m merely refuting Mr. Carr’s foolish universal negative:No Jew would have referred to our father David.” The writers of 2nd Kings (Jewish tradition held that it was Jeremiah) and 2nd Chronicles (Jewish and Christian tradition say it was Ezra) did, and so did St. Peter. All quite Jewish authors, in any event. If the author of 2 Kings can do it, and Peter can, so can Mark: simply following that Jewish tradition. 

Besides, Mark uses the phrase in the context of Palm Sunday, where the people saying this thought the messianic kingdom might be arising (Mk 11:10), and it is well known that David is also the prominent prototype of the Messiah in the Old Testament (see. e.g., ” ‘What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?’ They said to him, ‘The son of David’ “: Mt 22:42). So to refer to him in relation to Jesus is quite appropriate and equally “Jewish.” “Son of David” (in this vein) is applied to Jesus 16 times in the Gospels: ten of these in Matthew, including his description: “Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham” (1:1). Yet we are to believe that Mark is somehow “less Jewish” by referring to “our father David”? It just isn’t so.

Mark 12:31,33,34 subordinate the Torah to love, and to the kingdom, in contrast to Matt. 22:36-40, who as a Jew, put a far greater emphasis on the Law.

I don’t see much difference at all. After all, in the passage Mr. Carr cites from Matthew, Jesus doesn’t even cite the Ten Commandments. Rather, He cites a portion of the Law that sums up “all the law and the prophets” (22:40):

Matthew 22:37-39 . . . “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38] This is the great and first commandment. [39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

He does similarly in another passage (paralleled in Luke 11:42 but not in Mark):

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

That’s certainly putting the emphasis on love, rather than merely legal transactions. So is Mark much different than this? Mark 12:31-34 is basically the same as Matthew 22:37-39 above, and then Jesus adds: “to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices” (12:33). The thing is, the Law was meant to focus on love all along, and this is explicitly taught in the Old Testament, too. If Mr. Carr thinks that Mark is denigrating the sacrifices, he is saying nothing that hasn’t already been taught under the old covenant. So, for example:

Amos 5:21-24 I hate, I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. [22] Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and cereal offerings, I will not accept them, and the peace offerings of your fatted beasts I will not look upon. [23] Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. [24] But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

Jeremiah 6:20 . . . Your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices pleasing to me.

Proverbs 21:27  The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination; how much more when he brings it with evil intent.

When His people obeyed His commands, however, then God was pleased with the same sacrifices (see, e.g., Is 56:6-7: “their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar”; Jer 17:24-26: “But if you listen to me . . .”; Mal 1:11: “a pure offering”; many others).

So there is nothing “new” here in Mark, which is no different than Matthew. These themes had been there in Judaism and the existing Bible for many hundreds of years.

Mark never explains Gentile matters, such as who Pilate was. However, he assumes that his intended readers know even less about Judaism than he does and he has to explain the most elementary features.

That makes total sense if his intended audience is Gentiles.

By contrast, Matthew makes more use of Judaism and assumes his readers are up to speed.

That makes total sense if his intended audience is Jews.

Was Mark really a Jewish companion of Peter, or someone who was very close to the earliest, Jewish, followers of Jesus?

Yes, as I have consistently demonstrated above. But this doesn’t preclude a desire to reach out to Gentiles. That (along with Luke’s similar project) was as necessary as Paul’s missionary journeys, in order for Christianity to be a worldwide phenomenon and not just a local sect of Judaism.

Only Mark 12:42 explains that a lepton, a coin used in Palestine, was worth half a quadrans. Further more, “quadrans” is a word borrowed from Latin.

This is neither here nor there . . . 

Mark 10:12 forbids women to divorce their husbands and remarry. But Jewish law already forbade that! The teaching would have seemed outlandish to a Jew of Palestine, but was an appropriate expansion for those of pagan background.

Reiteration in teaching is never a bad thing. Secondly, there were many people then, as now, who knew the Law, or the new Christian teaching, but deliberately violated it, anyway.

At Mark 3:17 and Mark 10:46, he has to explain the most elementary meanings of Aramaic surnames. This is supposedly from somebody to whom Aramaic was a mother tongue.

What he knew is irrelevant to the consideration of what Gentile readers (over 2000 years) would know. Thus, it makes perfect sense to clarify the meaning of a proper name in Aramaic. The usual atheist skepticism is unwarranted and silly. Every single argument in this paper has fallen flat, as I have now demonstrated.

Even if Mark is just explaining things to his readers, it is clear that his readers, being ignorant of elementary Aramaic and even the currency of Palestine, would have been in no position to check out any of the things that he wrote.

Straining at gnats . . . 

Mark 6:48 uses ‘the fourth watch’. The Jews divided the night into three watches. The Romans divided the night into four watches, according to the conservative New Bible Dictionary. This is still more evidence that Mark’s Gospel was written for people who would have been familiar with Roman and not Jewish customs, and so would have found it hard to check the Gospel stories.

Yes; it was written for a Gentile audience. Why is this an issue at all?

There is nothing in Mark which a well educated Roman Gentile would not have known. For example, when Mark 15:38 talks about the curtain of the Temple, Roman Gentiles would have known that the Temple had a curtain, as it was taken to Rome after Jerusalem was sacked (Book 7, Chapter 5 in ‘Wars of the Jews’ by Josephus).

Why is it assumed that the book was intended primarily for “a well educated Roman Gentile” audience in the first place? It was written for the masses. Paul’s epistles are on a higher level, theology- and education-wise, but not the Gospels. Paul “does theology” and is writing to those who are already Christians, whereas the Gospels are “preaching the gospel” to non-believers. It’s the distinction between discipleship and evangelism.

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Photo credit: St Matthew and the Angel (1620), by Guido Reni (1575-1642) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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2021-02-05T13:09:28-04:00

Christian apologetics is neither dishonest, a “stacked deck”, nor an “evidence-free” methodology, simply because the apologist assumes the truthfulness of Christian beliefs before he or she starts. The fact is that both philosophy and science (as well as mathematics) start from axioms or unproven premises and move on from there.

Modern science (especially since Darwin) commences with unproven or incompletely proven hypotheses and then seeks to disprove them (philosopher of science Karl Popper is notable for having stressed this idea of falsifiability).

As an example, today the big rage and cutting-edge of cosmology is dark matter and dark energy. I have recently written about these, in an analogical argument regarding God being a spirit (that is, a non-material entity just as scientists now tell us 68% of the universe is). Very little is known about either at this point, yet they are the hypotheses at present that scientists are seeking to bolster with observation and hard evidence.

So it is a methodology not completely unlike apologetics: a prior proposition is accepted, at least provisionally, without sufficient evidence to make it absolutely certain. Scientists then test it and see if it withstands the actual evidence. I do much the same thing as an apologist tackling proposed atheist “contradictions” in the Bible. I start with the faith assumption that the Bible is inspired and internally harmonious.

Atheists say that is poppycock and then provide me with 1001 “contradictions” that I get to spend entire days grappling with (which I actually enjoy: at least in particularly patient moods). This would be similar to the notorious “anomalies” in scientific hypotheses and theories that scientists grapple with. If I can defeat each of these contradictions with a plausible counter-reaction, then this backs up — or more accurately, establishes logical consistency with — my original Christian hypothesis.

I don’t think that’s any more questionable or intellectually dishonesty than scientists attempting to falsify hypotheses, to see if they can withstand scrutiny. They start out with a certain point of view just as I do.

I’m not saying it is an exact analogy (few are), but it is enough of one to establish my point and defend myself and my methodology as a Christian apologist. Everyone holds unproven axioms or premises that they regard (whether provisionally or by stronger opinions) as unquestionable. And they proceed accordingly.

There are many such laws regarded in this way in science; for example, the three laws of thermodynamics or biological evolution. Anyone who questions either gets the fifth degree as an anti-scientific troglodyte. They function (in practical effect) as scientific dogmas, just as we Christians have our root premises held in faith, but not contrary to reason (the Bible is inspired); therefore these alleged “contradictions” should have counter-arguments which can defeat them.

I start with the premise that the Bible is internally consistent. I don’t have “proof” of that from reason, of such a nature that it convinces one and all of its truthfulness. But what happens as an apologist is that once I refute literally hundreds and hundreds of these claims (in effect, testing or examining my hypothesis), then I am more confident — in reason — that my faith premise is indeed true, because it has withstood all that onslaught.

Atheists do the same thing. They start with a premise that the Bible is uninspired and is simply a collection of fables, old wives’ tales, legends, etc., of ancient ignorant and primitive people who have little to teach us sophisticated moderns. Then they read these old dusty atheist collections of biblical contradictions and get confirmed in their original suspicions and gut instincts.

Then the reactions (or lack thereof) of Christians further confirm them, because almost all Christians are woefully uneducated in apologetics and cannot defend their views rationally. So the atheist sees that and concludes: see! Christians are ignorant, anti-intellectual and anti-science. Glad I ain’t one of ’em and have been liberated . . .”

What I do as an apologist is aggressively tackle these objections, interact with them and their defenders (as the case may be), present both sides on my blog in a dialogue format, and let readers decide who presented a better, more believable case.

Apart from what I have observed about methodology, I think that is far more honest and open than atheists gathering together in forums, simply cheerleading each other and rarely interacting with serious opposing Christian arguments.

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Photo credit: geralt (1-27-21) [PixabayPixabay License]

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