2018-10-15T14:46:19-04:00

Perspicuity is a fancy word for “clearness” / ease of understanding of Scripture. Carmen Bryant is a Baptist missionary and Bible scholar (M.A. and Th.M. from Western Seminary). Her words will be in blue.

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The Views of the Early Church in General

A study of the development of the doctrine Perspicuity of Scripture will show that it was not a teaching invented during the Protestant Reformation but a resurrected one.

This I deny. I affirm precisely what Carmen denies, and will copiously document this below. Various aspects of the teaching can be found in the Fathers (just as in my own view and the present-day Catholic one), but not the doctrine in its entirety, which presupposes that Scripture is the formal rule of faith apart from the Church. I maintain that that notion must be anachronistically imposed on the Fathers in order for the “case” for perspicuity amongst the Fathers to succeed.
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In looking at this doctrine in church history, it is of paramount importance to recognize that in spite of its name, Perspicuity does not mean that there is nothing obscure in Scripture. The reasons for labeling the doctrine Perspicuity of Scripture are more historical than lexicographical. In addition to whatever internal obscurity might already exist, there were external conditions imposed on Scripture that resulted in its meaning being almost totally hidden to the Christian population.

This is also a slander (knowingly or not) against the Catholic Church and its care and preservation of the Scriptures throughout the ages. No Protestant — knowing the facts of history — could have less than a tremendous gratitude towards the Catholic Church for its transmittance of Holy Scripture down to the 16th century and afterwards. The destructive theological liberalism and Higher Criticism of the Bible with which we deal today, on the other hand, originally came out of a totally Protestant milieu (largely the aftermath of Lutheran pietism in Germany; late 18th and early 19th centuries).
So I submit that if we are to examine influences destructive of a high view of Scripture as divinely-inspired, we must look far beyond the Catholic Church. Yet Carmen nowhere mentions these historical influences; only the Catholic Church is singled out, as if it were the enemy of the Scriptures, and popular knowledge of its teachings. That is sheer nonsense – the exact opposite of the truth -, as I will demonstrate as we proceed.

The Apostolic Church
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In the Church of New Testament times, Perspicuity of Scripture was assumed, not debated. The apostles used the Old Testament Scriptures to validate their message that Jesus of Nazareth was the promised Messiah. Such a methodology could succeed because God’s message in Scripture was in fact clear to the listener. 

This is no proof of perspicuity. It merely illustrates that the Apostles appealed to Scripture as the central element of their apologetic, just as the Fathers and Catholics have always done. There was still need of an authoritative interpreter. Furthermore, what is pointed to here is contained in the Bible itself; the Apostles were authoritative interpreters of the Old Testament Scriptures. They are in a far different category than Joe X. Protestant today with a Bible in his hand and a supposed direct line to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Secondly, they (especially St. Paul) continually appealed to the “tradition” passed down or handed down, which they had received from Our Lord Jesus Himself.

In that way they were again of one mind with the Fathers and Catholic methodology, which stresses apostolic succession and continuity of developing Christian doctrine, derived from the original deposit of faith. Thirdly, they did not deny the absolute necessity of a visible, institutional Church with real authority. So on all these counts, the analogy of the NT writers citing the OT is far more in line with Catholicism than Protestantism.

The apostles could reason with their listeners by appealing to Scriptures they already knew and understood. In this the apostles followed the same methodology as their Master, who repeatedly referred to the teachings of the Hebrew Scriptures in order to back up his own. Jesus rebuked his listeners for having trouble understanding him — not because they could not understand the words he was saying but because they were spiritually unprepared. The words were clear enough, but their hearts belonged to Satan and could not receive Jesus’ teachings.

Jesus was also there to correct misunderstandings; this is the whole point. He could rebuke them (as in John 6, when they – like most Protestants today – refused to accept a literal Eucharist) because He had the full authority – as God – to offer an authoritative commentary. Therefore one cannot conclude from this example that “perspicuity” as an abstract concept can ever exist apart from the authority of Jesus and the Apostles and – by extension – the Church, of which they and their successors the bishops and popes were the leaders.
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One can’t (if they are to be intellectually and exegetically honest) cite the Bible (or the Fathers) so selectively. Appeals to the OT are thought to be proof positive of perspicuity, yet the accompanying variables of Church and Tradition (also thoroughly biblical) are ignored as of no import or consequence. Thus the view which purports to be so “biblical” ironically becomes radically unbiblical in its extreme selectivity and arbitrariness as to which biblical passages it will recognize and which it will blithely ignore.

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Similarly, the apostles and other leaders of the newly founded Church used the narratives, prophecies and wisdom literature of the Old Testament to convict both Jews and Gentiles of eternal truth. They expected their readers and listeners to understand not just the mere statements but also their spiritual significance. Spiritual understanding is a gift from God to all who are redeemed, a gift that is expected to grow to completeness, even to the point of fathoming the treasures of wisdom and knowledge that are in Christ. Believers who remain at the elementary level are rebuked. The apostles were operating on the principles of Perspicuity: all those who truly belong to God are expected to grow in their understanding of what is revealed in Scripture because of the work of God’s Spirit within. Unbelievers, on the other hand, are limited in their understanding because their hearts are not prepared to receive spiritual wisdom.

None of this proves perspicuity. This is a collection of truths with which Catholics wholeheartedly agree, and half-truths which omit aspects of the Church and Tradition which cannot be so easily dismissed, if one wishes to maintain a truly biblical worldview, taking into account all of Holy Scripture, not just verses which appear on the surface to support perspicuity. Protestants – try as they may – simply cannot rationalize away the fact that both Tradition and a visible, institutional, apostolic, catholic (universal) Church are present and non-optional in the New Testament.
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The Post-Apostolic Period

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When the first post-apostolic authors cited Scripture, they were still referring primarily to the Septuagint version of the Hebrew Bible. Copies of the gospels and epistles circulated among the churches and were considered authoritative as Scripture if genuinely apostolic, but no one had yet gathered these documents into a cohesive collection. The writings of this period were aimed principally at combating false doctrine, especially Gnosticism, that was threatening the purity of the faith as handed down by the apostles. Although a complete doctrine of the Perspicuity of Scripture was not formulated until centuries later, we can still determine what the early writers believed about Perspicuity by observing the way they used Scripture in their fight against the aberrant beliefs that arose under the name of Christianity.

I shall maintain below again and again that late-arriving, novel Protestant views are being superimposed back upon the Fathers. The Protestant bias and great desire to claim the Fathers for themselves — to find some modicum of historical support for late Protestant inventions — has made it difficult for objective historical analysis to take place. We see this quite frequently in anti-Catholic polemicists such as William Webster, Eric Svendsen, and James White. They have been corrected by Catholic apologists time and again, to no avail. I have myself debated both Webster and White via mail or on my website, and neither offers the slightest counter-reply.
I shall begin my historical analysis of the Fathers and their view of Scripture and Tradition (and also that of Catholicism) with some general observations by six Protestant scholars:

How do we know that what the church says is true? The Roman Catholic answer to this question is the clearest answer that has ever been formulated . . .

The ‘Roman Catholic consequences’ begin to emerge with the assertion that the Church, through its bishops, is the guardian of tradition. The task of the church is to see that the gospel is handed down without being corrupted. Since not all the nuances of the faith are explicitly developed in the Bible, it is the contribution of tradition to take what is only implicit in Scripture, and make it explicit in the church. Thus tradition is creative and dynamic, and the church sees to it that tradition neither contradicts itself nor becomes inconsistent with the Biblical witness. This means that Scripture and tradition are two sources of truth and must not be separated. If they are, so the view maintains, disaster follows. The Reformers asserted that tradition had distorted the Biblical witness . . .Roman Catholics believe, more fervently than Protestants imagine, that Scripture and tradition are complementary rather than antithetical sources of truth. (Robert McAfee Brown, The Spirit of Protestantism, Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 1961, 172-173, 214)

A Bible-only mentality virtually equates spiritual reality with the text of Scripture itself, whereas the Scripture is a pointer to or a witness to that reality . . . There is a difference between being biblical and biblicistic (i.e., employing the Bible-only mentality). There is a difference between honoring ‘sola scriptura’ and bibliolatry (the excess veneration of Scripture). . . . On more than one occasion it has been pointed out that the Bible-only view of Scripture is very much like the Muslim view of Scripture . . . Muslims believe that the earthly Qu’ran is a perfect copy of an actual Qu’ran in Paradise . . . The Christian view of Scripture is that there is a human and historical dimension to Scripture . . . Scripture is not the totality of all God has said and done in this world. Scripture is that part of revelation and history specially chosen for the life of the people of God through centuries. ‘Sola scriptura’ means that the canon of Scripture is the final authority in the church; it does not claim to be the record of all God has said and done . . .   Patient research in the matter of tradition has brought to the surface the good side of the concept. Paul himself uses the language of tradition in a good sense (1 Cor. 11:23, 15:3). Both Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars have been coming closer and closer in a newer and better notion of tradition on both sides. For example, they agree that much of the revelation given in the period of time contained in the Book of Genesis must have been carried on as tradition . . . In the Christian period the bridge between Christ and the written documents of the New Testament was certainly tradition.   The ‘sola scriptura’ of the Reformers did not mean a total rejection of tradition. It meant that only Scripture had the final word on a subject . . . If we reject church tradition we have no idea what the New Testament is attempting to communicate. There is no question that the great majority of American evangelicals are not happy to have such a large weight given to tradition. Even so . . . might we not be heirs of tradition in such a manner that we are not aware of it? However we vote on this issue, it remains true that scholars no longer can talk about Scripture and totally ignore tradition . . . If a Christian could not have his own Scripture until the time of printing and its translation into modern languages, then the kind of Christianity the Bible-only mentality accepts could not have existed until the sixteenth century . . . If copies of the Holy Scripture were rare because of the expensive cost of reproduction by hand-copying then there must have been other valid sources through which the laymen could know the contents of the Christian faith. Such may be: the preaching of the bishop in the early church . . . ; the sacraments and the liturgy which used biblical themes, biblical personalities, and quotations from Scripture so that solid biblical truth could be learned indirectly . . . ; church architecture, decorations within a church, and other forms of Christian art which reflected biblical themes and materials.  This is not an exhaustive list but it does show how the millions of Christians . . . could have had a substantial understanding of the Christian faith prior to the invention of printing. And if one has such a perspective on the whole history of the church he need not be caught in the logical box to which the Bible-only mentality leads . . . so narrow that it becomes self-defeating. (Bernard Ramm, in Rogers, Jack B., editor, Biblical Authority, Waco, Texas: Word Books, 1977, “Is ‘Scripture Alone’ the Essence of Christianity?’, 116-17, 119, 121-122)

The ‘sola scriptura’ principle does not exclude a respectful listening to the wisdom of the past. For we stand in a community of faith and cannot leap over two thousand years of Christian history in disregard of the prodigious labors already done . . . Biblicism is an antitraditional preoccupation with the Bible. It limits its interests to the Bible alone and does not seek nor accept the guidance and correction which the history of exegesis affords. There is something audacious about such a leap from the twentieth century back into the first century without even a glance at the ways in which Scripture has hitherto been understood. Indeed, in such a case there is the real danger that the interpreter will bring the Bible under his own control. Every explicit denial of tradition involves a hidden commitment to a personal brand of tradition. (Clark Pinnock, Biblical Revelation, Chicago: Moody Press, 1971, 118-119)

As regards the pre-Augustinian Church, there is in our time a striking convergence of scholarly opinion that Scripture and Tradition are for the early Church in no sense mutually exclusive: kerygma, Scripture and Tradition coincide entirely. The Church preaches the kerygma which is to be found in toto in written form in the canonical books.

The Tradition is not understood as an addition to the kerygma contained in Scripture but as the handing down of that same kerygma in living form: in other words everything is to be found in Scripture and at the same time everything is in the living Tradition. It is in the living, visible Body of Christ, inspired and vivified by the operation of the Holy Spirit, that Scripture and Tradition coinhere . . . Both Scripture and Tradition issue from the same source: the Word of God, Revelation . . . Only within the Church can this kerygma be handed down undefiled . . . (Heiko Oberman, The Harvest of Medieval Theology, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, revised 1967 edition, 366-367)

Clearly it is an anachronism to superimpose upon the discussions of the second and third centuries categories derived from the controversies over the relation of Scripture and tradition in the 16th century, for ‘in the ante-Nicene Church . . . there was no notion of sola Scriptura, but neither was there a doctrine of traditio sola.’. . . (1)

The apostolic tradition was a public tradition . . . So palpable was this apostolic tradition that even if the apostles had not left behind the Scriptures to serve as normative evidence of their doctrine, the church would still be in a position to follow ‘the structure of the tradition which they handed on to those to whom they committed the churches (2).’ This was, in fact, what the church was doing in those barbarian territories where believers did not have access to the written deposit, but still carefully guarded the ancient tradition of the apostles, summarized in the creed . . . The term ‘rule of faith’ or ‘rule of truth’ . . . seems sometimes to have meant the ‘tradition,’ sometimes the Scriptures, sometimes the message of the gospel . . . In the . . . Reformation . . . the supporters of the sole authority of Scripture . . . overlooked the function of tradition in securing what they regarded as the correct exegesis of Scripture against heretical alternatives. (Jaroslav Pelikan, The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine: Vol. 1 of 5: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600), Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1971, 115-17, 119; citations: 1. In Cushman, Robert E. and Egil Grislis, editors, The Heritage of Christian Thought: Essays in Honor of Robert Lowry Calhoun, New York: 1965, quote from Albert Outler, “The Sense of Tradition in the Ante-Nicene Church,” 29. 2. St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:4:1)

It should be unnecessary to accumulate further evidence. Throughout the whole period Scripture and tradition ranked as complementary authorities, media different in form but coincident in content. To inquire which counted as superior or more ultimate is to pose the question in misleading terms. If Scripture was abundantly sufficient in principle, tradition was recognized as the surest clue to its interpretation, for in tradition the Church retained, as a legacy from the apostles which was embedded in all the organs of her institutional life, an unerring grasp of the real purport and meaning of the revelation to which Scripture and tradition alike bore witness. (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, San Francisco: Harper and Row, 1978, 47-48)

Catholic apologist Joe Gallegos expands upon these comments, and offers the Catholic outlook on the patristic perspective of these matters:
[E]ven though the Catholic Church and the early Fathers admit a material sufficiency of the Bible it maintains that Tradition, Church and Scripture are inseparable…and that the one cannot understand the meaning of the Sacred Scripture without Tradition and Church! That is why the early Fathers can admit a sufficiency of the Bible and the existence of unwritten traditions at the same time….In sum, the Fathers admitted a material sufficiency of the Bible but no less affirmed its formal ‘insufficiency’! All things can be found within the pages of Holy Writ (implicitly or explicitly) but for a proper and authentic understanding of Scripture something else is required–that is, Tradition and Church.
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Vincent of Lerins make the same point. We read in his Commonitories:
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Here perhaps, someone may ask: Since the canon of the Scripture is complete and more than sufficient in itself, why is it necessary to add to it the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation? As a matter of fact, [we must answer] Holy Scripture, because of its depth, is not universally accepted in one and the same sense. The same text is interpreted different by different people, so that one may almost gain the impression that it can yield as many different meanings as there are men. Novatian, for example, expounds a passage in one way; Sabellius, in another; Donatus, in another. Arius, and Eunomius, and Macedonius read it differently; so do Photinus, Apollinaris, and Priscillian; in another way, Jovian, Pelagius, and Caelestius; finally still another way, Nestorius. Thus, becuase of the great distortions caused by various errors, it is, indeed, necessary that the trend of the interpretation of the prophetic and apostolic writings be directed in accordance with the rule of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning. (Comm 2)
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. . . The point of controversy in these set of replies is this: did the Fathers affirm the Catholic rule of faith consisting of Scripture, Tradition and Church or did they affirm the Protestant rule of faith (Sola Scriptura) which interprets Scripture via private exegesis?
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. . . the Catholic Church affirms and admits the ‘material’ sufficiency (apart from the canonical issues of the Bible) of both the Scriptures itself and Tradition itself….both have the same Divine origin and but differ in modes only…. That is why the Catholic Church will NOT base a doctrine (apart from canon of the Bible) only on tradition alone or on Scripture alone–the belief must find a touchstone in both! For example, in Ott’s “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” you will find Ott religiously appealing to BOTH Scripture and Tradition. All doctrines of the Catholic faith are found explicitly or implicitly in the pages of Holy Writ…the same goes for Tradition. Tradition has some advantages (there are others): 1) it permits fullness, which the written text would have narrowed down to the limits of clear exposition and 2) it is by it’s nature a community phenomenon — whereas the text could be read by an individual by him or herself, tradition by it’s very nature fufills the communal aspects of Church. Scripture too has some advantages(there are others): 1) has the dignity which always and everywhere has gained for itself, 2) contain the actual words of Our Lord and Savior, and 3) It is fixed under one cover. In sum, Tradition allows the Church to preserve God’s saving Word in it’s fullness while Scripture ensures the preservation of it’s purity! (From the web page St. Athanasius, the Scriptures, Tradition, and the Church (Joe Gallegos vs. James White), an excellent debate highly-related to the present one. See also Joe Gallegos’ page Material Sufficiency and Sola Scriptura in the Fathers (Contra William Webster) )
For the sake of space, I cannot cite every quote from the Fathers which Carmen presents (nor those patristic opinions or quotes which present no particular difficulty for the Catholic position). Rather, I will let her summarize her conclusions about what particular Fathers taught, and then present countering citations and evidences. I again urge readers to consult Carmen’s original paper in order to read her arguments in their full context.
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Many Fathers are passed over which could easily be brought forth as fruitful witnesses for the Catholic viewpoint of the Fathers and Scripture/Tradition. The argument, remember, was that this view was that of the early Church, and that Protestants merely re-introduced it. I find the evidence presented as quite weak and unconvincing (there would be hundreds of patristic proof texts if Protestants are right about this), whereas the counter evidence which could easily be presented is overwhelming and irrefutable.

St. Clement of Rome (fl. c. 96)
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Clement, bishop of Rome in the last decade of the first century, frequently cites the Old Testament in his letter to the Corinthians about 96 AD. He does not explain the cited passage but assumes that his readers will understand the plain sense of the words and agree with his use of it . . . Scripture is plain enough to be understood and applied by all.

Yet St. Clement also espouses tradition (he doesn’t seem to speak the “biblical” evangelical lingo):
Let us conform to the glorious and holy rule of our tradition. (Letter to Corinthians 7:2)
Furthermore, Clement teaches apostolic succession in 42:1-4 and 44:1-4, and held that bishops were a permanent office and continuation of the apostolic ministry. He himself exercised a robust authority, which Catholics regard as papal (Clement being a bishop of Rome). He speaks to the church at Corinth as if it was in subjection to himself and the Church of Rome:
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    But if certain people should disobey what has been said by him through us, let them understand that they will entangle themselves in no small sin and danger. (59:1)
Lastly, Clement cites as “Scripture” in 23:3-4 a source which is not in the Bible as later determined. It is also cited in 2 Clement 11:2-3 (not considered to have been written by Clement, however). Anglican scholar J. B. Lightfoot speculated that the citation was from the lost book of Eldad and Modat mentioned in the Shepherd of Hermas (Vis. 2.3.4).

St. Irenaeus (c. 130 – c. 202) 

. . . Irenaeus acknowledges that “simple-minded” people can be led astray by such twisting of Scripture, but only because these persons do not know enough of Scripture to keep them from being deceived. When the various passages are put back in their right order and context, the sense is clear to the one who has accepted the truth “received at baptism.”

In like manner he also who retains unchangeable — in his heart the rule of the truth which he received by means of baptism, will doubtless recognise the names, the expressions, and the parables taken from the Scriptures, but will by no means acknowledge the blasphemous use which these men make of them. But when he has restored every one of the expressions quoted to its proper position, and has fitted it to the body of the truth, he will lay bare, and prove to be without any foundation, the figment of these heretics.

. . . Thus Irenaeus sets forth and practices another principle of the doctrine of Perspicuity of Scripture that was to be stated more formally in later times: What is obscure in one portion of Scripture is made clear in another portion. The explanations of the more obscure portions are within Scripture itself. The believer needs to study and meditate upon the entire Word in order to find the sense that God intended.

Irenaeus interprets types, symbols and parables with Christ as the center of his hermeneutic. For him, the true interpretation of the Scriptures lies with the Church, because the Church has inherited its doctrines from the apostles of Christ. In the context of Against Heresies, the Church stands in contrast to those who have broken away from the mainstream, the Gnostic heretics that have either twisted Scripture or done away with the portions that are not suitable to their doctrine. There is no differentiation made among persons within the Church that would indicate some are qualified to read and interpret Scripture while others should be hindered. All are encouraged to learn, and the amount of understanding will vary with the study and meditation given to the Scripture — as well as the measure of love that a person has for God.

But St. Irenaeus, too, accepts authoritative Tradition and apostolic succession (as Carmen — contrary to her overall argument — admits: “For him, the true interpretation of the Scriptures lies with the Church, because the Church has inherited its doctrines from the apostles of Christ”), in contrast to later Protestant beliefs about Scripture Alone as the rule of faith (a host of other citations could easily be brought forth – see the web pages above):
When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition . . . It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture or tradition. (Against Heresies 3, 2:1)
Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches? (Against Heresies 3, 4:1)
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But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the successions of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying they themselves are wiser. (Against Heresies 3, 2:2)

Protestant scholar Ellen Flessman-van Leer, in her Tradition and Scripture in the Early Church (Van Gorcum, 1953, pp. 139 and 188), writes:
For Irenaeus, on the other hand, tradition and scripture are both quite unproblematic. They stand independently side by side, both absolutely authoritative, both unconditionally true, trustworthy, and convincing.
Irenaeus and Tertullian point to the church tradition as the authoritative locus of the unadulterated teaching of the apostles, they cannot longer appeal to the immediate memory, as could the earliest writers. Instead they lay stress on the affirmation that this teaching has been transmitted faithfully from generation to generation. One could say that in their thinking, apostolic succession occupies the same place that is held by the living memory in the Apostolic Fathers.
St. Irenaeus did not accept the New Testament we have today. He did not consider 2 Peter, Jude or Hebrews scriptural, but did include the Shepherd of Hermas in the canon.
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The School of Alexandria and Allegorical Interpretation

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Next, it is argued that the exegetical School of Alexandria, and Fathers such as Clement of Alexandria and Origen, following Philo and Platonic thought, introduced foreign Greek philosophies into biblical commentary and hermeneutics, thus poisoning the well for perspicuity and popular understanding of the “clear” Scripture for subsequent generations throughout the Middle Ages until Luther and Calvin restored the true belief once again:

Origen further developed what was begun by Clement. Origen is especially significant because his allegorical methods established the hermeneutical methodology for the Church throughout the Middle Ages, and to some extent even to the present. Origen was also from Alexandria and a controversial figure even in his own time. He combined his Platonic philosophy with Christianity, particularly in the interpretation of Scripture, applying a body-soul-spirit theory to the Word of God. Many of the narratives were impossible happenings in his view. If Scripture really was divine literature, such narratives had to have a spiritual or mystical meaning. He did not completely do away with the literal, but nevertheless put his emphasis upon the spiritual.

. . . However, which narratives were to be understood literally, and which ones only spiritually? The logical outcome of this method would be the giving over to the trained leadership of the Church the responsibility to hear, read and study the Scriptures. Origen’s interpretative methods obscured much of Scripture and removed the possibility of profitable study for the average “untrained” Christian who would not be able to discern “literal narrative” from “spiritual narrative.”

In the online Catholic Encyclopedia article on Biblical Exegesis (by A. J. Maas), a summary of the Fathers’ approach to the literal and allegorical senses of Scripture, particularly that of Origen, who was an exception to the rule, is laid out:
The Fathers of the Church were not blind to the fact that the literal sense in some Scripture passages appears to imply great incongruities, not to say insuperable difficulties. On the other hand, they regarded the language of the Bible as truly human language, and therefore always endowed with a literal sense, whether proper or figurative. Moreover, St. Jerome (in Is., xiii, 19), St. Augustine (De tent. Abrah. serm. ii, 7), St. Gregory (Moral., i, 37) agree with St. Thomas (Quodl., vii, Q. vi, a. 14) in his conviction that the typical sense is always based on the literal and springs from it. Hence if these Fathers had denied the existence of a literal sense in any passage of Scripture, they would have left the passage meaningless. Where the patristic writers appear to reject the literal sense, they really exclude only the proper sense, leaving the figurative.
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Origen (De princ., IV, xi) may be regarded as the only exception to this rule; since he considers some of the Mosaic laws as either absurd or impossible to keep, he denies that they must be taken in their literal sense. But even in his case, attempts have been made to give to his words a more acceptable meaning (cf. Vincenzi, “In S. Gregorii Nysseni et Origenis scripta et doctrinam nova recensio”, Rome, 1864, vol. II, cc. xxv-xxix). The great Alexandrian Doctor distinguishes between the body, the soul, and the spirit of Scripture. His defendants believe that he understands by these three elements its proper, its figurative, and its typical sense respectively. He may, therefore, with impunity deny the existence of any bodily sense in a passage of Scripture without injury to its literal sense. But it is more generally admitted that Origen went astray on this point, because he followed Philo’s opinion too faithfully.   . . . It was Origen, too, who fully developed the hermeneutical principles which distinguish the Alexandrian School, though they are not applied in their entirety by any other Father.
Note that Origen’s views were not accepted as exegetical and hermeneutical norms for “official” Catholic interpretation. Carmen’s opinion above, therefore, is incorrect, and overly-broad. The historical truth about medieval and present-day Catholic exegesis is much more nuanced and complex. Origen spoke for himself in this instance, and he was wrong.
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The same article elaborates upon the history and biblical basis for the “mystical” or “spiritual” or “typical” (typological) sense of Scripture (bolded emphasis added):
The typical sense has its name from the fact that it is based on the figurative or typical relation of Biblical persons, or objects, or events, to a new truth. This latter is called the antitype, while its Biblical correspondent is named the type. The typical sense is also called the spiritual, or mystical, sense: mystical, because of its more recondite nature; spiritual, because it is related to the literal, as the spirit is related to the body. What we call type is called shadow, allegory, parable, by St. Paul (cf. Rom., v, 14; I Cor., x, 6; Heb., viii, 5; Gal, iv, 24; Heb., ix, 9); once he refers to it as antitype (Heb., ix, 24), though St. Peter applies this term to the truth signified (I Pet., iii, 21) . . .
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Scripture and tradition agree in their testimony for the occurrence of the typical sense in certain passages of the Old Testament. Among the Scriptural texts which establish the typical sense, we may appeal to Col., ii, 16-17; Heb., viii, 5; ix, 8-9; Rom., v, 14; Gal., iv, 24; Matt., ii, 15 (cf. Os., xi, 1); Heb., i, 5 (cf. II K., vii, 14). The testimony of tradition concerning this subject may be gathered from Barnabas (Ep., 7, 8, 9, 12, etc.), St. Clement of Rome (I Cor., xii), St. Justin, Dial. c. Tryph., civ, 42), St. Irenaeus (Adv. haer., IV, xxv, 3; II, xxiv, 2 sqq.; IV, xxvi, 2), Tertullian (Adv. Marc., V, vii); St. Jerome (Ep. liii, ad Paulin., 8), St. Thomas (I, Q. i, a. 10), and a number of other patristic writers and Scholastic theologians. That the Jews agree with the Christian writers on this point, may be inferred from Josephus (Antiq., XVII, iii, 4; Pro m. Antiq., n. 4; III, vi, 4, 77; De bello Jud., V, vi, 4), the Talmud (Berachot, c. v, ad fin.; Quiddus, fol. 41, col. 1), and the writings of Philo (de Abraham; de migrat. Abraham; de vita contempl.), though this latter writer goes to excess in the allegorical interpretation . . .
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All Catholic interpreters readily grant that in some passages of the Old Testament we have a typical sense besides the literal; but this does not appear to be granted with regard to the New Testament, at least not subsequently to the death of Jesus Christ. Distinguishing between the New Testament as it signifies a collection of books, and the New Testament as it denotes the Christian economy, they grant that there are types in the New-Testament books, but only as far as they refer to the pre-Christian economy. For the New Testament has brought us the reality in place of the figure, light in place of darkness, truth in place of shadow (cf. Patrizi, “De interpretatione Scripturarum Sacrarum”, p. 199, Rome, 1844). On the other hand, it is urged that the New Testament is the figure of glory, as the Old Testament was the figure of the New (St. Thom., Summa, I, Q. i, a. 10).
*
Again, in Scripture the literal sense applies to what precedes, the typical to what follows. Now, even in the New Testament Christ and His Body precedes the Church and its members; hence, what is said literally of Christ or His Body, may be interpreted allegorically of the Church, the mystical body of Christ, tropologically of the virtuous acts of the Church’s members, anagogically of their future glory (St. Thom., Quodl., VII, a. 15, ad 5um). Similar views are expressed by St. Ambrose (in Ps. xxx, n. 25), St. Chrysostom (in Matt., hom. lxvi), St. Augustine (in Joh., ix), St. Gregory the Great (Hom. ii, in evang. Luc., xviii), St. John Damascene (De fide orth., iv, 13); besides, the bark of Peter is usually regarded as a type of the Church, the destruction of Jerusalem as a type of the final catastrophe.  . . .

*

It may be said in general that these earliest Christian writers admitted both the literal and the allegorical sense of Scripture. The latter sense appears to have been favoured by St. Clement of RomeBarnabasSt. JustinSt. Irenaeus, while the literal seems to prevail in the writings of St. Hippolytus, Tertullian, the Clementine Recognitions, and among the Gnostics.   . . . Among the eminent writers of the Alexandrian School must be classed Julius Africanus (c. 215), St. Dionysius the Great (d. 265), St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (d. 270), Eusebius of Caesarea (d. 340), St. Athanasius (d. 373), Didymus of Alexandria (d. 397), St. Epiphanius (d. 403), St. Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444), and finally also the celebrated Cappadocian Fathers, St. Basil the Great (d. 379), St. Gregory Nazianzen (d. 389), and St. Gregory of Nyssa (d. 394). The last three, however, have many points in common with the School of Antioch.   . . .

*

(c) The Latin Fathers. The Latin Fathers, too, admitted a twofold sense of Scripture, insisting variously now on the one, now on the other. We can only enumerate their names: Tertullian (b. 160), St. Cyprian (d. 258), St. Victorinus (d. 297), St. Hilary (d. 367), Marius Victorinus (d. 370), St. Ambrose (d. 397), Rufinus (d. 410), St. Jerome (d. 420), St. Augustine (d. 430), Primasius (d. 550), Cassiodorus (d. 562), St. Gregory the Great (d. 604). St. Hilary, Marius Victorinus, and St. Ambrose depend, to a certain extent, on Origen and the Alexandrian School; St. Jerome and St. Augustine are the two great lights of the Latin Church on whom depend most of the Latin writers of the Middle Ages.   . . .

*

(ii) Second Period of Exegesis, A.D. 604-1546

*

We consider the following nine centuries as one period of exegesis, not on account of their uniform productiveness or barrenness in the field of Biblical study, nor on account of their uniform tendency of developing any particular branch of exegesis, but rather on account of their characteristic dependence on the work of the Fathers. Whether they synopsized or amplified, whether they analysed or derived new conclusions from old premises, they always started from the patristic results as their basis of operation.

It is obvious, then, that the consensus amongst the Fathers (and the medievals following them) is the belief that Scripture can be properly interpreted in a typological, allegorical, figurative, and “mystical” sense, while not denying the fundamental nature of the literal, “historical” sense. As usual, the truth is not “either/or” (as is so often observed in the Protestant perspective). It is “both/and.”
*
In any event, according to Carmen’s thesis, the early Church (in the main?) accepted some proto-Protestant version of perspicuity. She strongly implies (if she doesn’t assert it outright) that allegorical interpretation mitigates against this (since it obscures Scripture and its “plain” meaning), and is therefore a corruption of the mainstream patristic hermeneutical and exegetical view.
*
The above summary (if it is accepted at all as accurate) demolishes this contention, in my opinion, for it reveals that the Fathers en masse accepted multiple forms of interpretation all along (and that the medieval exegetes followed their method: they didn’t deviate from them). Thus, as is so often the case, Protestants must improperly read back their peculiar views into the Fathers.
*
Luther and Calvin, then, are again shown to be revolutionaries in this regard, introducing novelties, not reformers who merely brought back (“resurrected”) what was present and normative in the early Church (as Carmen contends). Protestants cannot prove with extensive documentation that the Fathers – taken as a whole – uphold their notions of sola Scriptura, perspicuity, an invisible church, literal interpretation to the exclusion of other methods, or a denial of apostolic succession.
*
With all due respect, such analysis cannot survive even the first in-depth Catholic counter-reply, because history in this instance (as well as Scripture, I believe) is again on the Catholic side. Therefore, Protestant polemicists are reduced to producing largely-unsubstantiated and highly selective summaries of alleged Church history which lack sufficient documentation, and ignore a host of complicating factors. A confident, true historical thesis can easily incorporate or take into account (rather than obscure or ignore) all the known historical facts within itself, as the Catholic viewpoint does.

St. Augustine (354-430)
Augustine of Hippo was perhaps the greatest expounder of Christian doctrine in the early centuries of Christianity. Both Catholics and Protestants have cited his works in confirmation of their own views . . . True obscurities do exist, but God is the one who put them into Scripture. His purpose was to hold pride in check and increase the respect Christians would give to Scripture.

Some of the expressions are so obscure as to shroud the meaning in the thickest darkness. And I do not doubt that all this was divinely arranged for the purpose of subduing pride by toil, and of preventing a feeling of satiety in the intellect, which generally holds in small esteem what is discovered without difficulty.

Yet there is no obscurity in Scripture that by necessity remains unfathomable. The darkness of obscurity can be penetrated by studying the rest of Scripture. Augustine sets forth a principle that is resurrected during the Reformation: Scripture interprets Scripture.

Accordingly the Holy Spirit has, with admirable wisdom and care for our welfare, so arranged the Holy Scriptures as by the plainer passages to satisfy our hunger, and by the more obscure to stimulate our appetite. For almost nothing is dug out of those obscure passages which may not be found set forth in the plainest language elsewhere.

The Scriptures plainly teach that which is necessary for faith and salvation, as well as teaching how the Christian should live. These are the things that should be studied first and committed to memory. Only after the believer is firmly grounded in these necessary doctrines should he go on to delve into the more obscure teachings of Scripture.

For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages.

Ignorance accounts for much of what is labeled obscure. Thorough study of the Scriptures as well as knowledge from other fields of learning should clear up most of these. When neither context nor general knowledge will clear up an obscure passage, one may apply reason – but, Augustine says,

This is a dangerous practice. For it is far safer to walk by the light of Holy Scripture; so that when we wish to examine the passages that are obscured by metaphorical expressions, we may either obtain a meaning about which there is no controversy, or if a controversy arises, may settle it by the application of testimonies sought out in every portion of the same Scripture.

The solution to the unsolvable obscure passages may be to interpret the passage figuratively. Here Augustine is not talking about figurative language but allegorical interpretation. He only uses the word allegory twice in On Christian Doctrine, and both times it refers to a type of speech within Scripture itself, not a type of interpretation, but he sometimes uses the word “figurative” in the same way that other Church Fathers use the word “allegorical.”
*
Augustine remained an allegorist but he did not take allegory as far as Clement of Alexandria. He retained a deep respect for the literal interpretation and the perspicuity of Scripture, insisting on several points which were later included in the doctrine of Perspicuity during the Reformation. He also set up several controls over the use of allegory. 

*

Here, the Protestant “either/or” mentality is fully apparent. Neither the centrality or popular “accessibility” of Scripture nor a respect for the literal hermeneutical sense rules out Tradition and Church, apostolic succession, or four-fold interpretation of Scripture. St. Augustine is not a Protestant!

If one cites him — as above — only when he agrees or appears to agree with one or more Protestant distinctives, but neglects to take into account numerous other statements of his which are entirely “Catholic,” then it is an improperly selective and ultimately intellectually dishonest presentation, and does disservice both to St. Augustine and the Protestant cause – supposedly so rooted in the early Church and the great Augustine himself. In this vein, Protestant scholar Heiko Oberman observes:

    Augustine . . . reflects the early Church principle of the coinherence of Scripture and Tradition. While repeatedly asserting the ultimate authority of Scripture, Augustine does not oppose this at all to the authority of the Church Catholic . . . The Church has a practical priority . . .
    • But there is another aspect of Augustine’s thought . . . we find mention of an authoritative extrascriptural oral tradition. While on the one hand the Church ‘moves’ the faithful to discover the authority of Scripture, Scripture on the other hand refers the faithful back to the authority of the Church with regard to a series of issues with which the Apostles did not deal in writing. Augustine refers here to the baptism of heretics . . . (

The Harvest of Medieval Theology,

     Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, revised edition, 1967, 370-371)
Many other citations of St. Augustine with regard to this subject could be brought forth. Here are a few:
[T]he custom [of not rebaptizing converts] . . . may be supposed to have had its origin in Apostolic Tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the Apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings. (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 5:23[31] [A.D. 400] )
*
But the admonition that he [Cyprian] gives us, ‘that we should go back to the fountain, that is, to Apostolic Tradition, and thence turn the channel of truth to our times,’ is most excellent, and should be followed without hesitation. (Ibid., 5:26[37] )
*
But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the Apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church. (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400])
*
For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual men attain in this life, so as to know it, in the scantiest measure, indeed, because they are but men, still without any uncertainty…The consent of peoples and nations keep me in Church, so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The SUCCESSION of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the APOSTLE PETER, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave it in charge to feed his sheep, down to the present EPISCOPATE…The epistle begins thus: — ‘Manicheus, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the providence of God the Father. These are the wholesome words from the perennial and living fountain.’ Now, if you please, patiently give heed to my inquiry. I do not believe Manichues to be an apostle of Christ. Do not, I beg you, be enraged and begin to curse. For you know that it is my rule to believe none of your statements without consideration. Therefore I ask, who is this Manicheus? You will reply, An Apostle of Christ. I do not believe it. Now you are at a loss what to say or do; for you promised to give knowledge of truth, and here you are forcing me to believe what I have no knowledge of. Perhaps you will read the gospel to me, and will attempt to find there a testimony to Manicheus. But should you meet with a person not yet believing in the gospel, how would you reply to him were he to say, I do not believe? For MY PART, I should NOT BELIEVE the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. So when those on whose authority I have consented to believe in the gospel tell me not to believe in Manicheus, how can I BUT CONSENT? (C. Epis Mani 5,6)
*
Wherever this tradition comes from, we must believe that the Church has not believed in vain, even though the express authority of the canonical scriptures is not brought forward for it. (Letter 164 to Evodius of Uzalis)
To be sure, although on this matter, we cannot quote a clear example taken from the canonical Scriptures, at any rate, on this question, we are following the true thought of Scriptures when we observe what has appeared good to the universal Church which the authority of these same Scriptures recommends to you. (C. Cresconius I: 33)
It is obvious; the faith allows it; the Catholic Church approves; it is true. (Sermon 117:6)
The authority of our Scriptures, strengthened by the consent of so may nations, and confirmed by the succession of the Apostles, bishops and councils, is against you. (C. Faustus 8:5)
*
No sensible person will go contrary to reason, no Christian will contradict the Scriptures, no lover of peace will go against the CHURCH. (Trinitas 4, 6, 10)

St. Jerome (c. 345-419)
 
Jerome was a contemporary of Augustine who initially shared the views of the Alexandrian exegetes but later came to be more in line with the Antiochene school. He affirmed a “deeper meaning” to Scripture, but contended that this spiritual significance must be rooted in the literal.
As was the mainstream Catholic position all along, as shown above.

*

He considered Origen a heretic but also thought he had done a credible job of explaining some obscure passages of Scripture.

Jerome played an involuntary role in Scripture’s becoming concealed from the Christian population in ensuing centuries. He translated the Bible into Latin because Greek was no longer a lingua franca in Europe. The Vulgate was the result, appropriately named because it was written in the vulgar or common language of the time. Approximately 300-400 years later, though, Latin had gone through enough changes that people of southern and western Europe began to realize that the Classical Latin taught in the schools was “perceptibly a different language, rather than merely a more polished, cultured version of their own.”

In the meantime, the Vulgate became the recognized authoritative translation of the Scriptures for use in the Church of Rome. The sacredness ascribed to the Word of God was extended as well to the language into which it had been translated, i.e., the Latin that had become the official language of the Church. The attitude toward Latin was also affected by tradition. Since “the time of Saints Hilary and Augustine the notion prevailed that the three languages used in the inscription on the Cross [Aramaic, Latin and Greek] were sacred.” The common language continued to change over the centuries, but the language of the Church and the Word of God did not. The God who communicated with mankind to the point of incarnating himself in human flesh became a God who was steeped in mystery, his revelations known only to a select few.

This was not the intention of Jerome.

This fatuous charge that somehow the Catholic Church was against popular reading of Holy Scripture and vernacular translations is one of the most common slanderous charges against the Catholic Church, but also (thankfully) one of the easiest to thoroughly disprove.
*
For now, I present a citation from St. Jerome which clearly (perspicuously?) indicates that he did not believe in sola Scriptura:
I will tell you my opinion briefly and without reserve. We ought to remain in that Church which was founded by the Apostles and continues to this day. If ever you hear of any that are called Christians taking their name not from the Lord Jesus Christ, but from some other, for instance, Marcionites, Valentinians, Men of the mountain or the plain, you may be sure that you have there not the Church of Christ, but the synagogue of Antichrist. For the fact that they took their rise after the foundation of the Church is proof that they are those whose coming the Apostle foretold. And let them not flatter themselves if they think they have Scripture authority for their assertions, since the devil himself quoted Scripture, and the essence of the Scriptures is not the letter, but the meaning. Otherwise, if we follow the letter, we too can concoct a new dogma and assert that such persons as wear shoes and have two coats must not be received into the Church. (The Dialogue Against the Luciferians 28)

The Antiochene School of Theology: Not All It’s Cracked Up to Be
The hermeneutical methods of the Alexandrian School, particular those of Origen, prevailed and eventually became the standard of the Church of Rome.
*
This is incorrect, as detailed above. Origen’s position was extreme, and the literal sense of scriptural interpretation was always primary, though not excluding other senses. Nor did the Church and Catholic commentators reject the Antiochene approach entirely. More “either/or” inaccuracies and straw men . . .
*

Not all theologians in the early Church, however, agreed with this allegorical approach. Those of the Antiochene school dissented from the position that there was a spiritual meaning hidden within the text. In fact, they held that allegorical interpretation destroyed the real message of Scripture. They also distinguished between allegory as used in Scripture itself, and the allegorical interpretation as used by the Alexandrian school. They were unwilling to lose [the historical reality of the biblical revelation] in a world of symbols and shadows.Where the Alexandrines use the word theory as equivalent to allegorical interpretation, the Antiochene exegetes use it for a sense of scripture higher or deeper than the literal or historical meaning, but firmly based on the letter. This understanding does not deny the literal meaning of scripture but is grounded on it, as an image is based on the things represented and points toward it. Both image and thing are comprehensible at the same time. There is no hidden meaning which only a Gnostic can comprehend. John Chrysostom observes that everywhere in scripture there is this law, than when it allegorizes, it also gives the explanation of the allegory.”

Again, this was the mainstream patristic position, not just that of the School of Antioch.

. . . Even as the Alexandrians did not completely dispense with the literal meaning of Scripture, so also the Antiochenes did not dismiss allegory. However, they insisted that any allegorical interpretation must be based on the literal. The Antiochene school’s hermeneutic lost out to that of the Alexandrians. Their methods were not forgotten, however, and were later revived in the 13th century by St. Thomas Aquinas, who greatly admired the work of John Chrysostom and was responsible for restoring the literal meaning to its rightful importance.

I cite once more the online Catholic Encyclopedia article on Biblical Exegesis (by A. J. Maas; bolded emphasis added):

The School of Antioch. The Fathers of Antioch adhered to hermeneutical principles which insist more on the so-called grammatico-historical sense of the Sacred Books than on their moral and allegorical meaning. It is true that Theodore of Mopsuestia urged the literal sense to the detriment of the typical, believing that the New Testament applies some of the prophecies to the Messias only by way of accommodation, and that on account of their allegories the Canticle of Canticles, together with a few other books, should not be admitted into the Canon. But generally speaking, the Fathers of Antioch and Eastern Syria, the latter of whom formed the School of Nisibis or Edessa, steered a course midway between Origen and Theodore, avoiding the excesses of both, and thus laying the foundation of the hermeneutical principles which the Catholic exegete ought to follow. The principal representatives of the School of Antioch are St. John Chrysostom (d. 407); Theodore of Mopsuestia (d. 429), condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Synod on account of his explanation of Job and the Canticle of Canticles, and in certain respects the forerunner of Nestorius; St. Isidore of Pelusium, in Egypt (d. 434), numbered among the Antiochene commentators on account of his Biblical explanations inserted in about two thousand of his letters; Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria (d. 458), known for his Questions on the Octateuch, the Books of Kings and Par., and for his Commentaries on the Psalms, the Cant., the Prophets, and the Epistles of St. Paul. The School of Edessa glories in the names of Aphraates who flourished in the first half of the fourth century, St. Ephraem (d. 373), Cyrillonas, Balaeus, Rabulas, Isaac the Great, etc.

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman, in his classic work An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine (Part 2, Chapter 7, section 4: “Scripture and its Mystical Interpretation” — emphasis added), penetratingly wrote about the orthodoxy of the mystical sense as the norm within the Christian (Catholic) Church, and the excesses of the Antiochene School of hermeneutics and “hyper-literalism.” I cite him at length, because his analysis is so relevant to the present debate (bolded emphasis added):
Several passages have occurred in the foregoing Chapters, which serve to suggest another principle on which some words are now to be said. Theodore’s exclusive adoption of the literal, and repudiation of the mystical interpretation of Holy Scripture, leads to the consideration of the latter, as one of the characteristic conditions or principles on which the teaching of the Church has ever proceeded. Thus Christianity developed, as we have incidentally seen, into the form, first, of a Catholic, then of a Papal Church.
*

Now it was Scripture that was made the rule on which this development proceeded in each case, and Scripture moreover interpreted in a mystical sense; and, {339} whereas at first certain texts were inconsistently confined to the letter, and a Millennium was in consequence expected, the very course of events, as time went on, interpreted the prophecies about the Church more truly, and that first in respect of her prerogative as occupying the orbis terrarum, next in support of the claims of the See of St. Peter. This is but one specimen of a certain law of Christian teaching, which is this, – a reference to Scripture throughout, and especially in its mystical sense [Note 14].1. This is a characteristic which will become more and more evident to us, the more we look for it. The divines of the Church are in every age engaged in regulating themselves by Scripture, appealing to Scripture in proof of their conclusions, and exhorting and teaching in the thoughts and language of Scripture. Scripture may be said to be the medium in which the mind of the Church has energized and developed [Note 15]. When St. Methodius would enforce the doctrine of vows of celibacy, he refers to the book of Numbers; and if St. Irenaeus proclaims the dignity of St. Mary, it is from a comparison of St. Luke’s Gospel with Genesis. And thus St. Cyprian, in his Testimonies, rests the prerogatives of martyrdom, as {340} indeed the whole circle of Christian doctrine, on the declaration of certain texts; and, when in his letter to Antonian he seems to allude to Purgatory, he refers to our Lord’s words about “the prison” and “paying the last farthing.” And if St. Ignatius exhorts to unity, it is from St. Paul; and he quotes St. Luke against the Phantasiasts of his day. We have a first instance of this law in the Epistle of St. Polycarp, and a last in the practical works of St. Alphonso Liguori. St. Cyprian, or St. Ambrose, or St. Bede, or St. Bernard, or St. Carlo, or such popular books as Horstius’s Paradisus Animae, are specimens of a rule which is too obvious to need formal proof. It is exemplified in the theological decisions of St. Athanasius in the fourth century, and of St. Thomas in the thirteenth; in the structure of the Canon Law, and in the Bulls and Letters of Popes. It is instanced in the notion so long prevalent in the Church, which philosophers of this day do not allow us to forget, that all truth, all science, must be derived from the inspired volume. And it is recognized as well as exemplified; recognized as distinctly by writers of the Society of Jesus, as it is copiously exemplified by the Ante-nicene Fathers. . . . “Holy Scripture,” says Cornelius Lapide, “contains the beginnings of all theology: for theology is nothing but the science of conclusions which are drawn from principles certain to faith, and therefore is of all sciences most august as well as certain; but the principles of faith and faith itself doth Scripture contain; whence it evidently follows that Holy Scripture lays down those principles of theology by which the theologian begets of the mind’s reasoning his demonstrations. He, then, who thinks he can tear away Scholastic Science from the work of commenting on Holy Scripture is hoping for offspring without a mother.” [Note 19] Again: “What is the subject-matter of Scripture? Must I say it in a word? Its aim is de omni scibili; it embraces in its bosom all studies, all that can be known: and thus it is a certain university of sciences containing all sciences either ‘formally’ or ’eminently.'” [Note 20]

Nor am I aware that later Post-tridentine writers deny that the whole Catholic faith may be proved from Scripture, though they would certainly maintain that it is not to be found on the surface of it, nor in such sense that it may be gained from Scripture without the aid of Tradition. [Thus Newman confirms that Catholics acknowledge material sufficiency of Scripture] 2.

And this has been the doctrine of all ages of the Church, as is shown by the disinclination of her teachers to confine themselves to the mere literal interpretation of Scripture. Her most subtle and powerful method of proof, whether in ancient or modern times, is the mystical sense, which is so frequently used in doctrinal controversy as on many occasions to supersede any other.

Thus the Council of Trent appeals to the peace-offering spoken of in Malachi {343} in proof of the Eucharistic Sacrifice; to the water and blood issuing from our Lord’s side, and to the mention of “waters” in the Apocalypse, in admonishing on the subject of the mixture of water with the wine in the Oblation. Thus Bellarmine defends Monastic celibacy by our Lord’s words in Matthew xix., and refers to “We went through fire and water;” etc., in the Psalm, as an argument for Purgatory; and these, as is plain, are but specimens of a rule. Now, on turning to primitive controversy, we find this method of interpretation to be the very basis of the proof of the Catholic doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Whether we betake ourselves to the Ante-nicene writers or the Nicene, certain texts will meet us, which do not obviously refer to that doctrine, yet are put forward as palmary proofs of it. Such are, in respect of our Lord’s divinity, “My heart is inditing of a good matter,” or “has burst forth with a good Word;” “The Lord made” or “possessed Me in the beginning of His ways;” “I was with Him, in whom He delighted;” “In Thy Light shall we see Light;” “Who shall declare His generation?” “She is the Breath of the Power of God;” and “His Eternal Power and Godhead.”

On the other hand, the School of Antioch, which adopted the literal interpretation, was, as I have noticed above, the very metropolis of heresy. Not to speak of Lucian, whose history is but imperfectly known, (one of the first masters of this school, and also teacher of Arius and his principal supporters), Diodorus and Theodore of Mopsuestia, who were the most eminent masters of literalism in the succeeding generation, were, as we have seen, the forerunners of Nestorianism. The case had been the same in a still earlier age; — the Jews clung to the literal sense of the Scriptures and hence rejected the Gospel; the Christian Apologists proved its divinity by means of the allegorical. The formal connexion of this mode of interpretation with {344} Christian theology is noticed by Porphyry, who speaks of Origen and others as borrowing it from heathen philosophy, both in explanation of the Old Testament and in defence of their own doctrine.

It may be almost laid down as an historical fact, that the mystical interpretation and orthodoxy will stand or fall together. [Protestant Church historian Jaroslav Pelikan, in his The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600), p. 61 – cited earlier – quotes the last sentence above, in the course of a treatment of hermeneutics, and notes that “Newman’s generalization is probably an accurate one.”] This is clearly seen, as regards the primitive theology, by a recent writer, in the course of a Dissertation upon St. Ephrem. After observing that Theodore of Heraclea, Eusebius, and Diodorus gave a systematic opposition to the mystical interpretation, which had a sort of sanction from Antiquity and the orthodox Church, he proceeds; “Ephrem is not as sober in his interpretations, nor could it be, since he was a zealous disciple of the orthodox faith. For all those who are most eminent in such sobriety were as far as possible removed from the faith of the Councils”. On the other hand, all who retained the faith of the Church never entirely dispensed with the spiritual sense of the Scriptures. For the Councils watched over the orthodox faith; nor was it safe in those ages, as we learn especially from the instance of Theodore of Mopsuestia, to desert the spiritual for an exclusive cultivation of the literal method. Moreover, the allegorical interpretation, even when the literal sense was not injured, was also preserved; because in those times, when both heretics and Jews in controversy were stubborn in their objections to Christian doctrine, maintaining that the Messiah was yet to come, or denying the abrogation of the Sabbath and ceremonial law, or ridiculing the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, and especially that of Christ’s Divine Nature, under such circumstances ecclesiastical writers found it to their purpose, in answer to such exceptions, violently to refer {345} every part of Scripture by allegory to Christ and His Church.” [Note 21] . . . The use of Scripture then, especially its spiritual or second sense, as a medium of thought and deduction, is a characteristic principle of doctrinal teaching in the Church.

As for the prevalence of rank, serious Christological error in Antioch, I offer the following list of its heretical patriarchs (Protestants and Catholics pretty much agree on Chalcedonian Christology – all these heresies contradict that; thus are regarded as equally heretical in both camps):
*
      • Patriarch / Years / Heresy
    Paul of Samosata 260-269 Modalist
    Eulalius c.322 Arian
    Euphronius c.327-c.329 Arian
    Leontius 344-58 Arian
    Eudoxius 358-60 Arian
    Euzoius 361-78 Arian
    Peter the Fuller 470,475-7, 482-88 Monophysite
    John Codonatus 477,488 Monophysite
    Palladius 488-98 Monophysite
    Severus 512-18 Monophysite
    Sergius c.542-c.557 Monophysite
    Paul “the Black” c.557-578 Monophysite
    Peter Callinicum 578-91 Monophysite
    Anthanasius c.621-629 Monothelite
    Macedonius 640-c.655 Monothelite
    Macarius c.655-681 Monothelite
Needless to say, this is not a very impressive record for orthodoxy. It would be difficult to argue that the local, prevailing method of biblical hermeneutics had nothing to do with this. The Nestorian heresy, in particular, was strongly connected to Antioch, as we learn from a reputable Protestant scholarly source:
Nestorius (d.c. 451), from whom the heresy takes its name . . . entered a monastery at Antioch, where he became imbued with the principles of the Antiochene theological school, and probably studied under Theodore of Mopsuestia . . . Nestorius’s opponents succeeded in winning the support of St. Cyril of Alexandria and the Egyptian monks to their cause. Both sides having appealed to Rome, at a Council held there in August 430, Nestorius’s teaching was condemned by Pope Celestine.[and also in 431 by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus which proclaimed in opposition that Mary was the “Mother of God” or “Theotokos,” not simply “Christotokos”]  (F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, editors, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd ed., 1983, 961-962)
Nor was the Antiochene emphasis in soteriology at all consistent with Protestant (and Catholic) emphases, as another Protestant reference work points out:
[I]ts soteriology . . . admitted a significant place to human merit. This fact may explain Nestorius’s sympathy for Pelagius.[it is also noted that Antioch’s Christological tendency “was towards Sabellianism”] (J. D. Douglas, editor, The New International Dictionary of the Christian Church, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Pub. House, revised edition of 1978, 49)
Thus we see a time-honored tendency of Protestant polemics: anyone or any school or sect which disagrees with the Catholic Church in any given belief is co-opted as a “comrade-in-arms” in the struggle to counter the “errors” of the “Roman Church.” Thus the Antiochene School of Theology becomes the great proponent of perspicuity and the grammatico-historical interpretation of Scripture, and champion of a sort of proto-evangelicalism, while its grave Christological and soteriological heresies (equally rejected and decried by orthodox Protestantism) are overlooked or de-emphasized.
*
They don’t matter, because the object is to find some agreement, any agreement, with much-later Protestant principles. Once those are located (in actuality or only in imagination), any other aspects of the holder’s belief are ignored (whether consciously or unconsciously). Frankly, I find this method to be special pleading, and plain bad historiography.
*
Even the greatest and most orthodox figure to come out of this school, St. John Chrysostom, takes an entirely Catholic view of Tradition, by no means harmonious with the Protestant sola Scriptura:
*
    “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter” [2 Thess 2:15]. From this it is clear that they did not hand down everything by letter, but there was much also that was not written. Like that which was written, the unwritten too is worthy of belief. So let us regard the tradition of the Church also as worthy of belief. Is it a tradition? Seek no further. (Homilies on 2 Thess 4:2)

The Patristic and Catholic Approach to Hermeneutics
 
John F. McCarthy, in his series of online essays, The Neo-Patristic Approach to Sacred Scripture (emphasis added), presents the Catholic view of these matters, which differs (even with regard to historical questions) markedly from the Protestant one (while in some respects it is much more similar than one might suppose):
Why promote the neo-Patristic approach? Meditation upon things said in Sacred Scripture is important for every Christian. The Fathers of the Church have laid out a basic Christian approach to the study and meditation of the inspired word. This approach of the Fathers was followed by all Catholic exegetes, especially as regards the literal sense, but in recent centuries with lessening emphasis upon the spiritual senses except for certain texts relating to the dogmas of the Church. However, towards the end of the nineteenth century some Catholic exegetes (interpreters) began to follow what is now known as the historical-critical approach, developed by rationalist and liberal Protestant exegetes, and this new approach has now with some exceptions virtually supplanted the Patristic approach among Catholic biblical scholars.
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But many problems and logical contradictions have arisen from the results of historical-critical interpretation, even when used by Catholic exegetes. The neo-Patristic approach aims to address and solve these problems and contradictions and to reinstate the Patristic approach by the use of an updated framework based upon the largely implicit framework of the Fathers of the Church in the hope of enabling insights old and new and of making it easier to pray the Scriptures.. . . . The Patristic approach is recommended, if not mandated, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (paragraphs 115-119). These paragraphs should be reread and discussed. They illustrate the need and the urgency of developing the neo-Patristic approach. . . .

*

The neo-Patristic method uses the framework of the four senses of Sacred Scripture, as developed initially by St. Augustine of Hippo and others and more fully by St. Thomas Aquinas, especially in his Summa Theologiae (part I, question 1, article 10) See Thomas Kuffel, “St. Thomas’ Method of Biblical Exegesis,” in Living Tradition, no. 38 (November 1991). The four senses involved are the literal sense, the allegorical sense, the tropological, or moral, sense, and the anagogical, or eschatological, sense (also known as the final sense). These four senses will be examined in the course of this study program.

The neo-Patristic method, just as the Patristic method, always begins with the literal sense of a passage, which sense is basic to the three spiritual senses and can be understood to a degree without them, but, from a neo-Patristic viewpoint, it cannot be fully understood except in contrast with one or more of the spiritual senses which may be written with the same words into the same passage.

Importance of the literal sense. Pope Pius XII, in his encyclical letter Divino afflante Spiritu (Enchiridion biblicum, 550; Rome and the Study of Scripture, 550), points out to interpreters of the Sacred Books that “their foremost and greatest endeavor should be to discern and define clearly that sense of the biblical words which is called literal.” It is necessary to determine first what the sacred text really says before one can come to understand what the sacred text really means.

All of the truths that are necessary for faith are expressed or implied in the literal sense of Sacred Scripture or in the Sacred Tradition of the Church, and, we might add, the basic facts and truths that underlie the three spiritual senses of Sacred Scripture are all presented somewhere in the literal sense of the Scriptures or in the Sacred Tradition of the Church.

The neo-Patristic approach to historicity. While the historical-critical method tends to assume that accounts in the Sacred Scriptures are unhistorical in the modern sense, the neo-Patristic method assumes that Scriptural accounts presented as history are historical. This difference between the two methods arises historically from the fact that historical-criticism is rooted in rationalism, while the neo-Patristic method is rooted in belief that the Sacred Scriptures have been written by God through the human instrumentality of the sacred writers. The sacred writers were not used as subhuman instruments in the sense of automatic writing in which the human writer writes unconsciously under the influence of someone else, but through their use by the Holy Spirit as rational persons who were cooperating with their mind and will. In the neo-Patristic understanding of divine inspiration, what the sacred writers wrote was not limited entirely by their own background and personal capacities; they were not confined by their own knowledge and experience.

St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)
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Thomas Aquinas, the “angelic doctor” of the Church, moved away from a reliance upon allegorical interpretation toward an appreciation of the literal meaning of Scripture. He still promoted allegory, dividing it into three possible meanings, but insisted that all allegorical interpretation must rise from the literal meaning, not apart from it. All these meanings are possible because God has the power to use human language and adapt it as needed for his own purposes.

Since the literal sense is that which the author intends, and since the author of Holy Writ is God, Who by one act comprehends all things by His intellect, it is not unfitting, as Augustine says (Confess. xii), if, even according to the literal sense, one word in Holy Writ should have several senses.

All of this was identical to the patristic consensus, and no different from the usual, normative approach of Catholicism throughout its entire history, so again, it looks like we are dealing here with a vast oversimplification, and a co-opting of St. Thomas as another sort of “proto-Protestant,” which is as ludicrous as when the same attempt is made to “claim” St. Augustine. The very fact that Protestants so admire Augustine and Aquinas and want so much to claim them for their camp (when in fact they are entirely Catholic, and the preeminent Catholic theologians) shows that something is strangely, ironically awry in the Protestant opinion of Catholicism, and that the Catholic Church throughout its history was far more “on the ball” than many Protestants are willing to admit.

John F. McCarthy, in his online essay, Neo-Patristic Exegesis to the Rescue, elaborates:
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    St. Thomas reflected on this method and gave a valuable explanation of the four senses in addition to expounding them in his commentaries on the Scriptures. His teaching can serve as the starting point for a more extended and differentiated exposition of this method, beginning with the first big distinction between the “literal” sense and the “spiritual,” or “mystical,” sense. For St. Thomas, this distinction arises from the fact that the rightly understood meaning of the words themselves of Sacred Scripture pertains to the literal, or historical, sense, while the fact that the things expressed by the words signify other things produces the spiritual sense. Thus, the spiritual sense is understood to be a typical, or figurative, sense which is based upon the literal sense and presupposes it. This basic double sense is possible because God, who is the principal Author of Sacred Scripture, has brought it about that things and events having their own historical meaning are used also to signify other things. But the central thing signified by these prefigurements is Jesus Christ Himself, who as the God-Man is the central focus of the spiritual sense and the subject of an extended symbolism which is known as the Allegory of Christ.The distinction between the literal and the spiritual senses of Sacred Scripture is analytical, even though spiritual realities are often the primary meaning of a text, because a certain interaction of faith and reason is implied in this division. The original meaning of words can be examined by unaided reason, as can the unfolding of visible happenings, but the spiritual meaning of words and events can be seen only by the light of faith. In Part I, Question I of the Summa Theologiae, St. Thomas points out that revealed teaching is necessary for man (article 1), that this teaching is a science based upon revealed truths that are visible under the light of faith (article 2), and that God is the subject of this science (article 7). Approaching, then, the distinction between the literal and the spiritual senses from an analytical point of view, I would say that the literal sense tends to be exclusively seen by the unaided human reason, while the spiritual sense is penetrated by theological reason aided by the light of faith. Where the text is speaking literally about spiritual realities, and above all about supernatural realities, the unaided reason can see the statement in a flattened and unmeaningful way, but it cannot “understand” the statement. Where the text contains spiritual meanings beneath the literal sense, the unaided reason can see these meanings at best in a flattened and unmeaningful way, while reason enlightened by faith can both see the spiritual meanings in a meaningful way and see the literal meaning in a more complete way – provided that it has the appropriate theological framework at its command. Looking, then, at sacred teaching as presented by the text of Sacred Scripture, and reasoning along the lines of St. Thomas, we can justifiably say that the inspired writings are necessary, not only because what is contained in them spiritually could not be figured out by man on his own, but also because the poor, fallen reason of man tends away from the spiritual truth and towards his own self-gratification. Men without grace do not want to know the spiritual truth and they endeavor to rub it out where it is written. But men possessed of faith and sanctifying grace will discover the truth and understand it. . . . St. Thomas answers affirmatively to the question “whether there ought to be distinguished four senses of Sacred Scripture,”34 basing his response upon the authority of St. Augustine of Hippo and of Venerable Bede. St. Augustine observed: “In all the holy books it is behooving to discern the eternal things to be seen there, the deeds that are there narrated, the future things that are predicted, the things that are commanded to be done.”35 St. Thomas sees these four things to refer respectively to the anagogical, the historical, the allegorical, and the tropological senses of Sacred Scripture. St. Thomas also quotes Venerable Bede as saying: “There are four senses of Sacred Scripture: history, which narrates things done; allegory, in which one thing is understood from another; tropology (that is, moral discourse), in which the ordering of habits is treated; and anagogy, by which we are led upward to treat of highest and heavenly things.”36 St. Thomas identifies the “historical sense” of Bede with the literal sense presented by the words themselves, and he makes an analytical division of the spiritual sense into allegory, tropology, and anagogy . . . . . . St. Thomas notes in the first place that things which actually happened can refer to Christ and his members as shadows of the truth, and this is what produces the allegorical sense, while other comparisons, being imaginary rather than real, whether in Sacred Scripture or in other literature, do not stand outside of the literal sense. Hence, the allegorical sense of Sacred Scripture is not imaginary and is not a genre of human inventiveness. . . . Finally, it might seem that, if these four senses were necessary for Sacred Scripture, each and every part of Sacred Scripture would have to have these four senses, but, as Augustine says in his commentary on Genesis, “in some parts the literal sense alone is to be sought.” To this St. Thomas replies that various parts of Scripture have four, three, two, or only one of these senses. Thus, the literal events of the Old Testament can be expounded in the four senses. The things spoken literally of Christ as the Head of the New Testament Church can also be expounded according to the four senses, because the historical Body of Christ can be expounded allegorically of the Mystical Body of Christ, and tropologically of the acts of the faithful to be modelled after the example of Christ, and anagogically inasmuch as Christ is the way to glory that has been shown to us. The things spoken literally of the Church of the New Testament can be expounded in three senses, because they can also be expounded tropologically and anagogically, but not allegorically, except that things mentioned literally regarding the primitive Church may have allegorical meaning regarding the later Church of the New Testament. The things of moral import in the literal sense can be expounded only literally and allegorically. And, finally, the things spoken literally regarding the state of glory cannot be expounded in any other sense.

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(originally 6-11-00)

Photo credit: Miniature of the book’s author, Vincent of Beauvais, within a border containing the arms of Edward IV, to whom this manuscript belonged. Miroir historial, vol. 1 (Vincent of Beauvais, Speculum historiale, trans. into French by Jean de Vignay), Bruges, c. 1478-1480, Royal 14 E. i, vol. 1, f. 3r [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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2018-10-08T15:05:56-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. He asked me there, on 8-11-18“I’ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I’ve ignored on one or two of those posts?”

He also made a general statement on 6-22-17“In this blog, I’ve responded to many Christian arguments . . . Christians’ arguments are easy to refute . . . I’ve heard the good stuff, and it’s not very good.” He added in the combox“If I’ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I’ve mischaracterized them.” Such confusion would indeed be predictable, seeing that Bob himself admitted (2-13-16): “My study of the Bible has been haphazard, and I jump around based on whatever I’m researching at the moment.”

I’m always one to oblige people’s wishes if I am able, so I decided to do a series of posts in reply. It’s also been said, “be careful what you wish for.”  If Bob responds to this post, and makes me aware of it, his reply will be added to the end along with my counter-reply. If you don’t see that, rest assured that he either hasn’t replied, or didn’t inform me that he did. But don’t hold your breath. He hasn’t yet uttered one peep in reply to my previous 24 installments.

Bob (for the record) virtually begged and pleaded with me to dialogue with him in May 2018, via email. But by 10-3-18, following massive personal attacks against me,  encouraged by Bob on his blog, his opinion was as follows: “Dave Armstrong . . . made it clear that a thoughtful intellectual conversation wasn’t his goal. . . . [I] have no interest in what he’s writing about.” Be that as it may, what is one to make (whatever he thinks of me) of his great (and perhaps in due course total) unwillingness to defend his ideas and opinions against my numerous serious critiques?

Bob’s words will be in blue. To find these posts, word-search “Seidensticker” on my atheist page or in my sidebar search (near the top).

*****

In his article, “Debunking 10 Popular Christian Principles for Reading the Bible” (3-2-15), Bob — ever the scrupulous Bible scholar — opined:

I say that the context of a verse is the entire Bible. . . . Don’t tell me that a verse says something without assuring me that the rest of the Bible never contradicts it.

To illustrate this problem, we’re given the example of the mustard seed, which Jesus calls “the smallest of all seeds.” . . . don’t tell me that Jesus is quoted giving the correct information when the Bible says he doesn’t. And don’t tell me to read a verse in its correct context when you won’t do that yourself.

He mentioned this flawed and fallacious “argument” again, nine months later:

The Bible betrays its uninformed roots when it says that . . . the mustard seed is the smallest seed on earth (Matt. 13:31-32). (12-2-15)

I’m delighted that Bob now wants to consider biblical context. It’s a new concept for him, but we all live and learn. One aspect of that context of the entire Bible is use of various literary genres and figures of speech, etc. These include many non-literal usages.

The parable of the mustard seed is an example of hyperbole, or exaggeration, which was very common in ancient Hebrew culture (and indeed, in most — if not all — cultures in the world and throughout history). First, let’s look at the relevant passages:

Matthew 13:31-32 (RSV) Another parable he put before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field; [32] it is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.” (cf. Lk 13:18-19)

Mark 4:30-32 And he said, “With what can we compare the kingdom of God, or what parable shall we use for it? [31] It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when sown upon the ground, is the smallest of all the seeds on earth; [32] yet when it is sown it grows up and becomes the greatest of all shrubs, and puts forth large branches, so that the birds of the air can make nests in its shade.” 

Matthew 17:20  He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, `Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.”

Luke 17:6 And the Lord said, “If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this sycamine tree, `Be rooted up, and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. 

Bible scholar E. W. Bullinger catalogued “over 200 distinct figures [in the Bible], several of them with from 30 to 40 varieties.” That is a a statement from the Introduction to his 1104-page tome, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (London: 1898). I have this work in my own library (hardcover). It’s also available for free, online. Bullinger continues, in the Introduction:

All language is governed by law; but, in order to increase the power of a word, or the force of an expression, these laws are designedly departed from, and words and sentences are thrown into, and used in, new forms, or figures.

The ancient Greeks reduced these new and peculiar forms to science, and gave names to more than two hundred of them.

The Romans carried forward this science . . . 

 These manifold forms which words and sentences assume were called by the Greeks Schema and by the Romans, Figura. Both words have the same meaning, viz., a shape or figure. . . . 

Applied to words, a figure denotes some form which a word or sentence takes, different from its ordinary and natural form. This is always for the purpose of giving additional force, more life, intensified feeling, and greater emphasis.

Bullinger devotes six pages (423-428) to “Hyperbole; or, Exaggeration”: which he defines as follows:

The figure is so called because the expression adds to the sense so much that it exaggerates it, and enlarges or diminishes it more than is really meant in fact. Or, when more is said than is meant to be literally understood, in order to heighten the sense.

It is the superlative degree applied to verbs and sentences and expressions or descriptions, rather than to mere adjectives. . . . 

It was called by the Latins superlatio, a carrying beyond, an exaggerating.

I shall cite some of his more notable and obvious examples (omitting ellipses: “. . .” ):

Gen. ii. 24. — “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife.” This does not mean that he is to forsake and no longer to love or care for his parents. So Matt. xix. 5.

Ex. viii. 17. — “All the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt”: i.e., wherever in all the land there was dust, it became lice.

I Sam. xxv. 37. — Nabal’s “heart died within him, and he became as a stone”: i.e., he was terribly frightened and collapsed or fainted away.

I Kings i. 40. — “So that the earth rent with the sound of them.” A hyperbolical description of their jumping and leaping for joy.

Job xxix. 6. — “The rock poured me out rivers of oil”: i.e., I had abundance of all good things. So chap. xx. 17 and Micah vi. 7.

Isa. xiv. 13, — “I will ascend into heaven”: to express the pride of Lucifer.

Lam. ii. 11.— “My liver is poured upon the earth, etc”: to express the depth of the Prophet’s grief and sorrow at the desolations of Zion.

Luke xiv. 26. — “If any man come to me and hate not his father and mother”: i.e., does not esteem them less than me. So the verb to hate is used (Gen. xxix. 31. Rom. ix. 13).

John iii. 26. — “All men come to him.” Thus his disciples said to John, to show their sense of the many people who followed the Lord.

John xii. 19. — “Behold, the world is gone after him.” The enemies of the Lord thus expressed their indignation at the vast multitudes which followed Him.

Note that in Matthew 17:20 and Luke 17:6, cited above, a double hyperbole is used: 1) faith only as large as a small mustard seed (even just a wee bit!), can bring about 2) mountains and trees being uprooted and moved. Bible scholar Kyle Butt, in an article on biblical hyperbole, compares the biblical usage of this type of figurative language to the same kind of application today:

We who use the English language are quite familiar with the use of hyperbole, even though we may not be as familiar with the term itself. When a teenager explains to her parent that “everybody” is going to be at the party, does she mean that literally the world’s population of 6.6 billion people will be there? Of course she does not. She is intentionally exaggerating to make a point. When a teacher explains to his class that “everybody” knows who the first president of the United States was, does the teacher believe all toddlers can correctly answer the question? No. Once again, the teacher is simply using a well-understood figure of speech to convey a point.

In a similar way, the Bible uses hyperbole on numerous occasions. Take John 4:39 as an example. In this passage, a Samaritan woman spoke of Jesus and said: “He told me all that I ever did” (emp. added). Had Jesus really told that woman everything that she had ever done in her life? No, she was using hyperbole to make her point.

Gary Amirault highlights more biblical examples in a similar article:

[T]is verse is a hyperbole, an exaggeration for effect:

“You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.” (Matt. 23:24, NIV)

It is not too difficult to determine that this is a hyperbole, an exaggeration. Because the English language is full of Bible terms and phraseology, this Hebrew idiom has become part of the English language. Therefore most English speaking people know the real meaning of that phrase: “You pay close attention to little things but neglect the important things.”

However, here is a hyperbole that the average Bible reader may miss and formulate doctrine from which may end up being harmful to themselves and others.

“Everything is possible for him who believes.” (Mark 9:23b, NIV)

The Bible is full of exaggerations like the one above which are not to be taken literally. Careful attention, comparing scripture with scripture, knowing the Bible and its author thoroughly, making certain not to necessary apply things to ourselves which weren’t meant for us individually and some basics about the original languages are needed to prevent us from misinterpreting various scripture verses like this one. . . . 

“If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out…” Matt. 5:29 (I met a Christian who actually tried to pluck out his right eye because he had a lust problem. This is an example the kind of problem a Bible translation can cause if one is not informed of the various figures of speech found in the Bible.)

Understanding all this now, and getting back to the passages on the mustard seed, we now accurately understand their intention and meaning. J. Timothy Unruh explains, in his article, “The Parable of The Mustard Seed and its alleged contradictions”:

The subject question of this study deals with another one of the infamous “apparent contradictions” found in the Scripture, this one regarding the physical characteristic of the mustard seed in the above quoted parable, namely the size of the seed itself. The passage refers to the seed as being “the least of all seeds” which is to say, the smallest of all seeds. Given this information from the Scripture, an objection has been raised that there are other seeds which are smaller than the mustard seed, among these are the petunia, the begonia and the orchid. While the mustard seed is about 1/20th of an inch in size, with the smaller petunia seed about 1/50th of an inch and the yet smaller begonia some 1/100th of an inch in size, the even yet smaller orchid seed is so tiny that a 10 to 30 power microscope is required for the eye to see it in any detail. Furthermore, the microscopic spores of mushrooms, lichens, and molds, which also are seeds, are so tiny and lightweight that even the slightest currents of air may carry them vast distances aloft. These too are seeds for the word spore itself means “seed.” Therefore the mustard seed is technically not the smallest seed of all. The objection has been pressed even further to say something like, “Since the mustard seed isn’t the smallest of all seeds then Jesus was wrong, and if Jesus was God and made everything, He should have known that the mustard seed is not the smallest seed! . . . 

[W]e next turn our attention to an evaluation of the intent in the parable itself and then make a decision as to whether or not the Lord was trying to be technical or non-technical in His usage of the seed as an illustration. Naturally, any gainsayer would relish the technical interpretation at this point because therein he sees his opportunity to overthrow the integrity of the Bible. We must look at the passage in context of the objection and ask ourselves whether the parable is designed to be a lesson in botany, or a lesson of a much deeper significance and importance. To the casual reader with even an elementary understanding of the Word of God it should be rather apparent that the Lord had the latter purpose in mind. The parable of the mustard seed exemplifies the principle often exercised in Scripture which makes use of one thing in order to illustrate the meaning of a greater truth. In other words, an object lesson is being given here. Such is the mechanism which makes a parable so workable and meaningful. The Proverbs of Solomon are full of such illustrations. . . . 

Jesus himself is known for speaking in hyperbolic or parabolic statements, hence the parable. We should not think that people were any different thousands of years ago. It should, as well, be realized that the expression “the least of all seeds” is figurative and oriental, and that in a proverbial simile no literal or technical accuracy is to be expected. It was a hyperbolic expression to emphasize “very small.” Of course, we know there are many seed types smaller than the mustard seed. It is thus quite evident that the Lord, in His popular teaching, adhered to the popular language, and the mustard seed was used proverbially to denote anything very minute. Very likely, in Israel the mustard seed was the smallest of all garden seeds. In such case the literal truth about the comparative size of the mustard seed in the parable still holds after all. The Scriptures simply do not find it necessary to make a habit of championing such careful and superfluous elaborations. The tiny orchid seed was not likely known, let alone planted, in ancient Israel. The mustard seed was simply a familiar convenience to draw from in order to make an important point.

The frequent use of such hyperbole throughout Holy Scripture (including often by Jesus) quite adequately explains this use of “mustard seed.” If it wasn’t intended absolutely literally, with surgical accuracy and rationalistic, scientific precision, but rather as a poetic exaggeration, the “problem” vanishes. To mangle a popular metaphor, Bob “can’t see the forest for the seed.” If he would take a day or two to study biblical literary genre and various figures of speech, he would avoid many embarrassing errors in the future.

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Photo credit: carlfbagge (4-15-17) Wild Mustard in Bloom: Shoreline Park, Rancho Palos Verdes, California: 2.5 meters (8 feet, two inches) tall [Flickr / CC BY-SA 2.0 license]

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2018-10-05T12:56:35-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. He asked me there, on 8-11-18“I’ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I’ve ignored on one or two of those posts?”

He also made a general statement on 6-22-17: “In this blog, I’ve responded to many Christian arguments . . . Christians’ arguments are easy to refute . . . I’ve heard the good stuff, and it’s not very good.” He added in the combox“If I’ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I’ve mischaracterized them.” Such confusion would indeed be predictable, seeing that Bob himself admitted (2-13-16): “My study of the Bible has been haphazard, and I jump around based on whatever I’m researching at the moment.”

I’m always one to oblige people’s wishes if I am able, so I decided to do a series of posts in reply. It’s also been said, “be careful what you wish for.”  If Bob responds to this post, and makes me aware of it, his reply will be added to the end along with my counter-reply. If you don’t see that, rest assured that he either hasn’t replied, or didn’t inform me that he did. But don’t hold your breath.

Bob (for the record) virtually begged and pleaded with me to dialogue with him in May 2018, via email. But by 10-3-18, his opinion was as follows: “Dave Armstrong . . . made it clear that a thoughtful intellectual conversation wasn’t his goal. . . . [I] have no interest in what he’s writing about.” Be that as it may, what is one to make (whatever he thinks of me) of his great (and perhaps in due course total) unwillingness to defend his ideas and opinions against my numerous serious critiques?

Bob’s words will be in blue. To find these posts, word-search “Seidensticker” on my atheist page or in my sidebar search (near the top).

*****

In his article, “How Reliable is Apostle Paul When He Knew Very Little About Jesus?” (12-17-12; rev. 9-4-15), Bob pontificated:

For being the founder of Christianity, Paul knew surprisingly little about Christ. . . . 

Using the gospels as a guide, we’ll find that Paul is a shallow source of information.

If we were to extract biographical information from the gospels, we’d have a long list—the story of Jesus turning water into wine, walking on water, raising Lazarus, the Prodigal Son story, curing blindness with spit, odd events like his cursing the fig tree, and so on. But what information about Jesus do we get from Paul? . . . 

No parables of the sheep and the goats, or the prodigal son, or the rich man and Lazarus, or the lost sheep, or the good Samaritan. In fact, no Jesus as teacher at all.

No driving out evil spirits, or healing the invalid at Bethesda, or cleansing the lepers, or raising Lazarus, or other healing miracles. As far as Paul tells us, Jesus performed no miracles at all.

No virgin birth, no Sermon on the Mount, no feeding the 5000, no public ministry, no women followers, no John the Baptist, no cleansing the temple, no final words, no Trinity, no hell, no Judas as betrayer (he mentions “the twelve”), and no Great Commission. Paul doesn’t even place Jesus within history—there’s nothing to connect Jesus with historical figures like Caesar Augustus, King Herod, or Pontius Pilate.

Perhaps everyone to whom Paul wrote his letters knew all this already? Okay, but presumably they already knew about the crucifixion, and Paul mentions that 13 times. And the resurrection, which Paul mentions 14 times.

This is an astonishingly clueless piece. Once again, the apologist tasked with responding to this sort of bilge (unfortunately, myself) feels like a mosquito on a nude beach: so many opportunities, but where to begin?! Well, here we go.

To take the last paragraph first: obviously Paul mentioned the crucifixion and resurrection a lot because they are absolutely central to the Christian gospel and our theology. That’s why he mentioned them more, even though his readers (being Christians) already knew about them. This ain’t rocket science, folks. But the Christians he was writing to also knew about the fine details of Jesus’ life; therefore, he didn’t need to repeat them. It wasn’t his primary purpose in his letters.

For supposedly knowingsurprisingly little about Christ,” Bob’s own article (in portions that I have not cited) notes many particulars about Paul’s writings, which seem to refute his own grandiose claims. After all, he lists fourteen separate aspects of Jesus and His life (complete with many biblical references) that even he concedes Paul knew about.

According to Strong’s Concordance: a standard biblical reference work, Paul mentions the word “Jesus” 218 times (an average of 2 1/2 times per chapter). In his epistles, he also mentions “Christ” (Greek for Messiah) apart from “Jesus” another 212 times. That’s 430 times total. I had to sit here and laboriously count up all the instances of “Christ” by itself, because an intelligent, educated man claims with a straight face that “Paul knew surprisingly little about Christ.” 

Bob commits a glaring omission in not including the book of Acts (written by Luke) as data concerning what Paul knew and supposedly didn’t know about Jesus. It records many of his words, including sermons, and is basically devoted to his story, starting in chapter 13, till the last chapter (28). Thus, 57% of the book is about Paul (16 chapters out of 28); yet Bob didn’t think it was relevant in determining what Paul knew and taught about Jesus Christ. Go figure! And no, I refuse to spend more valuable time counting up Paul’s use of “Jesus” and “Christ” in Acts. Here’s the searchable Bible I use. Anyone can do it if they wish.

This is how ridiculous it gets in having to refute the ludicrous claims of atheists about the Bible and Christianity: and why very few are willing to do it. Who can blame them? It virtually takes the patience of Job. I’m half-disgusted at myself for doing this very paper, but I know it will do some good, and help some people inclined to believe Bob (or those who want to be able to refute these sorts of pseudo-“arguments”), and so I persevere. Please pray for me. Since prayer can be applied backwards in time (God being outside of time), I know that the prayers of some of you reading this will literally help me write it. Thanks!

Bob spends a great deal of energy listing various elements of the Gospel stories, and argues that it is odd that Paul (granting his conclusion for a moment) doesn’t include them. But why must we accept his premise in the first place? I see no compelling reason why. Protestant apologist Kyle Butt, in his excellent article, “Did Paul Write About Jesus as a Historical Person?” stated:

[Tom] Harpur’s major contention is that Paul did not mention details about Jesus’ life such as His birthplace in Bethlehem, His mother’s name, or His specific miracles. Yet, if the guiding hand of God produced the New Testament documents, it makes perfect sense that such information would not be repeated in Paul’s writings, since it was so thoroughly documented in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. In truth, the fact that Paul repeatedly alludes to Jesus in the flesh, but does not reiterate the various details of the gospel accounts, shows that Paul coincides with the Gospel writers, but was independent of them as well. Why would God need to record for the fifth time the various miracles and facts about Jesus’ life in the writings of Paul? Paul consistently dealt with many of the events in Jesus’ life such as His death, burial, resurrection, trial before Pilate, birth according to the seed of David, and the overarching fact that He took on the form of a human. Harpur’s complaint that Paul did not mention enough of the details that are recorded in the gospel accounts is a criterion that he and his fellow skeptics have arbitrarily chosen and that proves nothing. . . . 

The obvious truth is that Paul saturated his writings with the name of Jesus and repeatedly stressed that Jesus had come in the flesh as a historical human being. The details he left out of his writings accord perfectly with what one would expect from divine inspiration, and show that, while he acknowledged the historical Jesus, his writings serve as testimony independent of the gospel accounts.

Catholic Ann Nafziger, in her piece, “If St. Paul’s Letters Are Older Than the Gospels, Why Does He Leave a Lot Out?” adds:

Because he was writing to specific audiences with particular issues in mind, it resulted in a less-than-systematic portrayal of Jesus’ life. For example, when writing to a church that he had founded, if there were no current controversies about the virgin birth or Jesus’ miracles, he wouldn’t have felt the need to address them.

The short answer is that the Gospels (four times!) already dealt with Jesus’ life in its fine details. Paul’s letters largely consist of systematic theology. They are the “theology” / “intellectual” portion of the New Testament: which is quite as necessary as the Gospels are. Different purpose; different content. It’s really as simple as that.

But beyond that basic consideration, in some of his claims regarding alleged Pauline “ignorance” Bob is factually wrong, as I will now proceed to show. Above, Bob wrote: “As far as Paul tells us, Jesus performed no miracles at all.” And later on in his post he elaborates:

Paul indirectly admits that he knew of no Jesus miracles:

Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles (1 Cor. 1:22–3)

Why “a stumbling block”? Jesus did lots of miraculous “signs”—why didn’t Paul convince the Jews with these? Paul apparently didn’t know any. The Jesus of Paul is not the miracle worker that we see in the Jesus of the gospels. . . . 

The Jesus of Paul isn’t the Jesus of the gospels. 

Bob refutes himself (a not uncommon occurrence), because he himself said thatPaul mentions” Jesus’ resurrection “14 times.” Is that not a miracle? Indeed, it is Jesus’ greatest miracle: the conquering of death, and showing that there is an afterlife. The Gospels teach that Jesus raised Himself (it was His own miracle), just as He had raised Lazarus:

John 2:18-22 (RSV) The Jews then said to him, “What sign have you to show us for doing this?” [19] Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” [20] The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” [21] But he spoke of the temple of his body. [22] When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken. 

John 10:17-18 . . . I lay down my life, that I may take it again. [18] No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again . . . 

Note that Jesus thought His resurrection was the “sign” that the Jews demanded (2:18). He reiterates this elsewhere in comparing His resurrection to the “sign of Jonah” (Mt 16:1-4; Lk 11:29-30): that is, his emerging from the whale (metaphor for His tomb) after three days. Bob’s citing of 1 Corinthians 1:22-23 proves nothing that he claims. Paul’s simply saying that the crucifixion was loathsome to the Jews, and made it harder for them to accept Christianity. There is no hint that “he knew of no Jesus miracles:”. It’s ludicrous. In the same book he mentions the resurrection of Jesus nine times: in 6:14 and eight more times in chapter 15.

Moreover, when Paul recalls the story of his conversion to Christ, he mentions miraculous occurrences caused by “Jesus of Nazareth” (Acts 22:8): namely, “a great light from heaven” (22:6, 11), “brighter than the sun” (26:13), and “a voice” [of Jesus] from heaven (22:7; 26:14), which the others around him couldn’t hear (22:9). That’s all miraculous, supernatural stuff (I think even Bob would agree). It’s a “heavenly vision” (26:19).

Bob claims there is “no Trinity” in Paul’s writing. This is absolutely absurd. See my papers on the Deity of Jesus and The Holy Trinity: filled with hundreds of biblical proofs (including scores of them in Paul’s writing).

He claims that there isno John the Baptist” either. But Paul does in fact mention him, in an evangelistic sermon delivered at Antioch of Pisid’ia:

Acts 13:24-25 Before his coming John had preached a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. [25] And as John was finishing his course, he said, `What do you suppose that I am? I am not he. No, but after me one is coming, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to untie.’

Bob claims that there is “no hell” in Paul’s writings. He doesn’t use the word, but he repeatedly teaches the concept, some eleven times, as one article on the topic documents, referring to God’s “wrath and fury” towards the unrepentant (Rom 2:8), “wrath of God” (Col 3:6), “tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil” (Rom 2:9), “punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord ” (2 Thess 1:9). “Destruction” here doesn’t mean “annihilation”: as the article explains. 

Bob claims:Paul doesn’t even place Jesus within history—there’s nothing to connect Jesus with historical figures like . . . Pontius Pilate.” Wrong again! (does anyone see a pattern here?):

Acts 13:27-29 For those who live in Jerusalem and their rulers, because they did not recognize him nor understand the utterances of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled these by condemning him. [28] Though they could charge him with nothing deserving death, yet they asked Pilate to have him killed. [29] And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb. 

1 Timothy 6:13 In the presence of God who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, [Bob cites this, too, but he thinks the letter wasn’t written by Paul]

Bob thinks Paul has no knowledge of “Judas as betrayer” either. But he is in error again. Paul certainly refers to him here:

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 

Since Bob himself cited this verse, who does he believe Paul thinks was the one who betrayed Jesus? Not that logical consistency is a very common trait in Bob’s anti-Bible rantings . . . 

Bob also argues that because Paul referred to the disciples as “the twelve” (1 Cor 15:5) at the time Jesus appeared to them after His resurrection, therefore he wasn’t aware of Judas’ death, that decreased the group to eleven. But this is an example of non-literal biblical usage again. As an analogy: in Genesis 42:13, the children of Jacob said they were the “twelve brothers” even though they thought that Joseph (the 12th) was dead, leaving eleven.

It appears fairly plausible, if not certain, that “the twelve” (without “disciples” added) had become a title for the group of men that were Jesus’ disciples and closest companions (see, e.g., Mt 26:14, 47; Mk 4:10; 6:7; 9:35; 10:32; 11:11; 14:10, 17, 20, 43; Lk 8:1; 9:1, 12; 18:31; 22:3, 47; Jn 6:67, 71; 20:24; Acts 6:2). Jesus clearly uses it as a title, in this way: “Did I not choose you, the twelve . . .?” (Jn 6:70). The number twelve also had great meaning in Hebrew thought, as many biblical examples show.

Lastly, we use numbers in a non-literal fashion in the same way today. So, for example, there is the Big Ten Conference in college football (with our two beloved Michigan teams), which actually has fourteen members. It had ten from 1912 to 1950 (when Michigan State was added), eleven from then till 2011, when it became twelve, and 14 after 2014. From 2011 to 2014, the Big Ten had twelve teams, and the Big 12 consisted of ten teams!

We also use the term “two-by-four” for the common piece of lumber, when in fact, its actual dimensions are 1 5/8 inches by 3 5/8 inches. If such non-literal numbers can be used by us, why not also in the Bible? What forbids it? As with virtually all of these alleged “biblical contradictions” I’ve ever seen, they turn out to be nonexistent. Why isn’t Bob out there also running down the Big Ten for “lying” about the number of their teams?

Bob writes:Not confirmed: There is no confirmation of the post-resurrection appearances in Paul’s epistles.” Bob stumbles upon the truth here (like the unplugged clock, twice a day). But this theme is present in one of his sermons: the one given at Antioch of Pisid’ia, which I now cite for the third time:

Acts 13:30-31 But God raised him from the dead; [31] and for many days he appeared to those who came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. 

What would Paul have said about the philosophical issues that divided the church for centuries? These don’t mean much to most of us today because they’ve long been decided, but they were divisive in their day—whether Jesus was subordinate to God or not, whether Jesus had a human body or not, whether he had a human nature or not, whether he had two wills or not, whether the Holy Spirit was part of the Godhead, and so on. No one knows how Paul would have resolved them or even if they crossed his mind.

Kyle Butt observes:

Is it true that Paul . . . never referred to Him as a flesh and blood human being? Certainly not. . . . 

Not only did Paul repeatedly mention Jesus, but he specifically stressed that Jesus had come in the flesh as a real human being. For instance, in 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul wrote: “For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” To elucidate what he meant by the word “man,” Paul wrote in Philippians 2:5:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross (emp. added).

Any attempt to turn Paul’s phrase “in the likeness of men” into some sort of spiritual, mystical appearance is doomed to failure. Furthermore, Paul more specifically mentioned that “the likeness of men” that he discussed in Philippians meant human flesh. Paul wrote to the Romans about “Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh” (Romans 1:3, emp. added). 

There are many other indications as well; for example:

Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. [hard to have “blood” and not be a man]

Colossians 2:8-9 See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ. [9] For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

1 Timothy 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

It’s also difficult for a spirit being with no body to be crucified. Bob himself says that Paul mentions Jesus’ crucifixion 13 times. I’ll take his word on that; thus, it is 13 times that he refutes his own vapid inanity about Paul not being sure if Jesus had a body or not. For that matter, a spirit can’t be “raised from the dead.” That presupposes a physical body that died and is now back alive. Bob says Paul mentions Jesus’ resurrection 14 times, so he refutes one clueless point of his 27 times. Not bad! Saves me a lot of work . . . 

As to Jesus’ two wills, that is mostly covered in the Gospels, as I have documented, but Paul also makes statements that are consistent with the orthodox Christian understanding (two wills: divine and human).

Jesus being “subordinate” to or in subjection or submission to God the Father poses no problem at all for His deity or for trinitarianism, as Protestant apologist Glenn Miller explains, in extreme (but wonderful!) depth: as is his wont. This aspect as well as the two natures of Christ (also mentioned in Bob’s laundry list above) are strikingly highlighted in this Pauline passage:

Philippians 2:5-8 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, [6] who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, [7] but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. [8] And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 

It’s patently ridiculous to suggest that there is nothing in Paul to suggest his opinions on either of these doctrines. This paper is long enough, Bob has already been refuted over and over (and easily so), and the patience I asked readers to pray for is barely hanging by a thread about now. But we’ll do one last refutation (and it’s a decisive one indeed, if I do say so):

What would Paul have said about . . . whether the Holy Spirit was part of the Godhead, . . . No one knows . . . if [it even] crossed his mind.

Really? Paul cites an Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 6:8-10) in Acts 28:25-27, but with one important language difference. The Old Testament passage says that “I heard the voice of the Lord saying . . .” (Is 6:8). But when Paul cites it, he introduces it as follows: “The Holy Spirit was right in saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet” (Acts 28:25). This is a direct (logical) unarguable equation of the Holy Spirit with God. Thus, the question did indeed cross Paul’s mind, and he rendered a definite opinion on it. He makes the same equation in the following passages: 

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? [17] If any one destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and that temple you are. (cf. 6:19; 2 Cor 6:16)

1 Corinthians 12:4-6, 11 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; [5] and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; [6] and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. . . . [11] All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. 

2 Corinthians 3:16-17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. [18] And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. 

I guess Bob, in his exhaustive Bible study, undertaken with the utmost seriousness and intellectual honesty (and particular attention to fine detail) managed to somehow miss all of this biblical information that I found. Anyone can accept it if a man admits to being ignorant about a given subject. We all have thousands of topics we’re unacquainted with. But to claim to be an expert on the Bible and Christian theology, and condescendingly mock millions of Christians — who clearly know exponentially more about these theological topics than Bob does –, is insufferable folly.

***

Photo credit: Orthodox icon of St. Paul’s conversion, photographed by Ted (3-9-11) [Flickr / CC BY-SA 2.0 license]

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2018-10-03T13:36:24-04:00

I received notice of a reply to a comment of mine made on Bob Seidensticker’s rabidly anti-theist / anti-Christian blog, Cross Examined. I had written over there on 8-21-18, replying to Bob:  “If you think I’m a troll, then ban me, since you say you have banned dozens of people. What stops you?”
 
So today, “BeeryUSA” replied (link):
 
It’s no wonder that Dave Armstrong, a guy who bans anyone who disagrees with him, thinks that others should do the same. What stops us? Well Dave, unlike religious folks, atheists aren’t afraid of debate. If you show yourself to be a troll, all the better.
 
Ah! So I thought Seidensticker might have changed his mind on banning me, and went to comment, “Am I unbanned?!” Alas, I received the message back from Disqus: “We are unable to post your comment because you have been banned by Cross Examined.”
 
That’s what I thought. Bob banned me back in mid-August, after an extraordinary avalanche of personal attacks had taken place against me: which I was happy to document and expose on my blog, as Example #490,108,011 of the typical “Angry Atheist” verbal diarrhea behavior.
 
This Beery guy seems to be under the illusion that Bob doesn’t ban people. He’s also wildly incorrect about my criteria for banning. It’s when people violate my simple rules for discourse; not because they disagree. I’ve reiterated this a billion times, but some folks are slow.
 
There is a very active atheist on my blog threads right now who has been here for months, named “Anthrotheist.” He regularly pays me compliments for good discussion, and a good environment to have discussions. He refrains from insults and is very courteous, charitable, and insightful. So there is no problem. See the five posted dialogues with him (so far: one / two / three / four / five). Lots and lots of disagreement, but no rancor and hostility and mudslinging. How refreshing that is!
 
Jon Curry is an atheist whom I’ve known in person since at least 2010 (he’s even been at my house giving talks, twice, and I gave a talk at his atheist group). He remains active on my Facebook page (usually talking very far left politics) and hasn’t been banned. I love disagreements. Thats why I have over a thousand dialogues posted on my blog: more than anyone else I’ve ever seen online. I post more words of folks who oppose me on issues than anyone I know.
 
I banned Bob from my blog, and I explained why at length at the time. But of course he is perfectly free to respond to any of my posts about him. He can still read what I wrote and reply on his blog, if he so chooses. I just completed my 23rd in a series called “Seidensticker Folly” last night:  “Seidensticker Folly #23: Atheist ‘Bible Science’ Inanities, Pt. 2.”  Here are the previous 22 installments, in case some atheist (including Bob himself) works up the gumption to rationally reply to any of ’em:
*
[one / two / three / four / five / six / seven / eight / nine / ten / 11 / 12 / 13 / 14 / 15 / 16 / 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 / 22]
 
I started it because, when I was still allowed on Bob’s blog, he had challenged me, saying (on 8-11-18):
 
I’ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I’ve ignored on one or two of those posts? . . . If I’ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I’ve mischaracterized them.
 
So I began my series. It’s been fun and extremely enlightening as to how this one prominent anti-theist atheist argues and tries to lie about and besmirch Christianity and the Bible.
 
Beery claims that “atheists aren’t afraid of debate.” Presumably that includes Bob Seidensticker, who is one of the most well-known and prolific atheists online. I even saw yesterday that he has done formal debates in person with prominent Christian apologists.
 
But for some odd reason, he has not uttered one peep in reply to now 23 posts of mine that directly challenged arguments on his blog. Not.a.single.one. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. Instead, he fires a few potshots occasionally from his perch way up in the hills, such as, for example, opining that my alleged “disinterest in the truth reflects poorly” on me (from 8-24-18). I replied: “What are we to make, then, of his utter ‘disinterest’ in defending his opinions against serious critique?
 
Does that sound to you like he isn’t “afraid of debate” with Christians: i.e., with one who is also a professional, widely published apologist and who has directly challenged and refuted his arguments 23 times and will continue to do so? The scores and scores of debates posted on my Atheism and Agnosticism page hardly suggest that I am scared to debate atheists. Seidensticker is “small fry.” His arguments (if most of them are even worthy of the description) are atrocious, terrible, downright laughable. I’ve debated at least 25 atheists who are far sharper and more honest and accurate about Christianity than he is.
 
Perhaps someone who is still allowed to post at Cross Examined would be kind enough to inform Bob of this post. Thanks beforehand!

***

I replied to “Beery” on another blog:

Since I’m banned on Seidensticker’s blog, I couldn’t respond to your comment there, so here is my reply, in a new blog post. Perhaps you could be so kind as to inform Bob of it. Thanks!

If he blesses me with a response, I will be sure to post it here.

Someone else responded (MadScientist1023):

Aren’t you the guy who constantly tries to pick fights with Bob Seidensticker on your blog, but then bans absolutely anyone who makes one post you disagree with? This is kind of a weird place for you to be trolling for your blog, since you would ban most readers here from posting anything.

I replied:

I ban for insults and inability to engage in civil discourse, as I have explained 492,019,836,298 times — well, come to think of it, maybe 492,019,836,299 times (to no avail).  I have more debates with atheists posted on my blog (with multiple thousands of their words hosted on my Catholic site) than anyone I have ever seen. If you find someone with more debates than I have, please let me know.

Meanwhile, Bob still has me banned and has absolutely ignored 23 lengthy critiques of his posts, that he initially challenged me to undertake. That’s pretty rich (and hilarious) stuff! He’s perfectly free to read my critiques and reply on his blog (and then I will certainly counter-reply).

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Photo credit: schlappohr (1-8-12) [PixabayCC0 Creative Commons license]

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2018-10-02T12:19:52-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. He asked me there, on 8-11-18“I’ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I’ve ignored on one or two of those posts?” He also made a general statement on 6-22-17“In this blog, I’ve responded to many Christian arguments . . . Christians’ arguments are easy to refute . . . I’ve heard the good stuff, and it’s not very good.” He added in the combox“If I’ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I’ve mischaracterized them.” Such confusion would indeed be predictable, seeing that Bob himself admitted (2-13-16): “My study of the Bible has been haphazard, and I jump around based on whatever I’m researching at the moment.”

I’m always one to oblige people’s wishes if I am able, so I decided to do a series of posts in reply. It’s also been said, “be careful what you wish for.”  If Bob responds to this post, and makes me aware of it, his reply will be added to the end along with my counter-reply. If you don’t see that, rest assured that he either hasn’t replied, or didn’t inform me that he did. But don’t hold your breath. On 8-24-18 Bob wrote (after virtually begging and pleading to dialogue with me in May 2018) that my alleged “disinterest in the truth reflects poorly” on me. What are we to make, then, of his utter “disinterest” in defending his opinions against serious critique?

Bob’s words will be in blue. To find these posts, word-search “Seidensticker” on my atheist page or in my sidebar search (near the top).

*****

In his article, “25 Stupid Arguments Christians Should Avoid (Part 12)” (7-27-16), Bob wrote, in his characteristically misguided zeal:

Stupid Argument #40: Interpret difficult passages in the light of clear ones.

This argument is an attempt to wriggle away from Bible verses that are unpleasant or that contradict each other. “Interpret difficult passages in the light of clear ones” is advice from Josh McDowell’s New Evidence that Demands a Verdict (page 48). McDowell makes clear that difficult isn’t the issue at all—it’s contradictions that are the problem. They’re not difficult to understand, only to reconcile. For example, the epistle of James says that salvation is by works but Romans says that it’s by grace. The trick, McDowell tells us, is to find the interpretation that you like in the constellation of competing verses, bring that one forward, and either ignore the others or reinterpret them to be somehow subordinate or supportive of your preferred interpretation. That’s not quite how he puts it, but that’s what he means.

The quest for the “clearer” passage has become a quest for the most pleasing one.

The mere existence of what McDowell euphemistically calls “difficult” passages is an unacknowledged problem. How could verses conflict in a book inspired by a perfect god? If conflicting verses exist, doesn’t that make the Bible look like nothing more than a manmade book? How could God give humanity a book that was at all unclear or ambiguous?

I’m glad he gave a specific example. That means it can be examined and scrutinized. And when it is, guess who comes out looking “stupid”? Yes, you guessed right.

I think Bob is clever and informed enough to know that Catholics and Protestants have wrangled about the relationship of faith to works, and of each to salvation, for 500 years, and so he exploits that to his purposes. It’s a real and important debate, and I have devoted plenty of effort to it as a Catholic apologist, but, the differences are not nearly as great as one might think at first glance, and there is very significant common ground, as I shall show below.

Bob’s claim is that the inspired Bible contradicts itself in this regard, and that’s just not so. He’s not even accurate in how he describes the views of the books of James and Romans. Bob’s bias is so profound that inevitably, he can’t even get simple biblical facts correct (“what does book x teach about y?”). If he wants to wrangle about biblical interpretation, with one experienced in Bible study, he will lose every time, and the present case is definitely no exception to that pattern.

Bob states flat-out: “the epistle of James says that salvation is by works.” But this is simply not so. In the RSV, “works” appears 13 times in the book of James. Here they are, categorized for ease of interpretation:

Faith and Works are Connected and Inseparable

2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?

2:17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

2:18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.

2:20 Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? 

2:22-23 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, [23] and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 

2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 

2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead. 

The following passage also applies, even though the word, “works” isn’t present. The concept is (healing and salvation):

5:15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 

Justification by Works (But Not Works Alone)

2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 

2:25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 

Works Simply Mentioned 

3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good life let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.

What is striking in the above data of “works’ in James , is that it is never stated to be efficacious for salvation by itself (which would be “salvation by works” or the heresy of Pelagianism, which all Christians condemn). In the first category above, we see that works are directly and intimately tied to faith, to such an extent that faith considered by itself without it is indeed “dead” (2:17, 26), “barren” (2:20), and cannot “save” (2:14). The truth of the matter, according to James, is that works are necessary to “show” or exhibit or manifest faith (2:18), and to complete faith (2:22).

James 2:24 (“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone”) seems to be capable of two simultaneous interpretations. It sounds like “justification by works [alone?]” but it can just as plausibly be taken to mean “faith alone is not enough for justification, works are also required”. This interpretation is strongly reinforced by all the other passages in the first category above, that are in the same context and chapter, save for 5:15. Indeed, the “faith + works” connection is asserted two verses before, and two verses after. All non-fiction literature has to be interpreted in context.

Beyond that, justification is not the same as salvation. I delve deeply into the interpretation of James compared to other books, with regard to faith and works, justification, and salvation, in the following papers (suffice it to say here that Bob is way over his head, arguing about this, and in very deep waters with no “life jacket” of reason or hermeneutical ability):

Justification in James: Dialogue [5-8-02]

Justification: Not by Faith Alone, & Ongoing (Romans 4, James 2, and Abraham’s Multiple Justifications) [10-15-11]

“Catholic Justification” in James & Romans [11-18-15]

Reply to James White’s Exegesis of James 2 in Chapter 20 of His Book, The God Who Justifies [10-9-13]

This leaves James 2:21 and 2:25 (second category), which seem at face value to assert at least “justification by works” (but not salvation by works) but they prove nothing. But they do not, because the immediate context in both cases proves that works cannot be isolate by themselves. 2:21 and 2:25 simply mention works only, but that is not contradictory to the other passages. They would be if they used the language of “works alone”: because that would preclude faith. In the cases of both 2:21 and 2:25, the verses immediately before and after both connect works to faith.

It couldn’t be any clearer than it is. But ol’ Bob proceeds like a bull in a china shop, ignorantly claiming that “James says that salvation is by works.” If the above data isn’t enough to disprove this claim, then we can do more word-searching. “Salvation” never appears in the book. “Saved” or “save” does five times:

James 1:21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rank growth of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. [the “word” or the gospel saves]

James 2:14, seen above, states that works and faith save. It logically precludes faith either by works alone or faith alone.

James 4:12 There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor? [God saves; i.e., His grace saves]

James 5:15, seen above, also reiterates that works and faith together save. It’s a prayer, which is a work by another, but it’s a “prayer of faith“: so that faith is also present.

James 5:19-20 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, [20] let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. [this is salvation by means of the divine grace passed along by evangelistic effort: probably including also prayer, given the immediate preceding context of praying (5:13-18, where prayer is mentioned in every verse).

Conclusion: salvation by works alone, without faith, is never ever taught in the book of James. Bob needs to get his basic facts right, in order to make claims that he thinks will establish biblical contradiction. Even despite his gross ignorance of the Bible, hermeneutics, and Christian theology, he could have done the simple word searches that I just did. It wouldn’t have put him out.

Bob also stated:Romans says that it’s [salvation] by grace.” All of Scripture asserts salvation by God’s grace. All Christians believe that. I’ve written many times about it:

St. Paul on Grace, Faith, & Works (50 Passages) [8-6-08]

Grace Alone: Perfectly Acceptable Catholic Teaching [2-3-09]

Grace, Faith, Works, & Judgment: A Scriptural Exposition [12-16-09; reformulated & abridged on 3-15-17]

Bible on Participation in Our Own Salvation (Always Enabled by God’s Grace) [1-3-10]

Monergism in Initial Justification is Catholic Doctrine [1-7-10]

Grace Alone: Biblical & Catholic Teaching [12-1-15]

Catholics and Protestants Agree on Grace Alone and the Necessity of the Presence of Good Works in Regenerate and Ultimately Saved Persons; Disagree on Faith Alone [5-4-17]

But this doesn’t preclude works (nor, of course, faith in grace). Thus, Romans, like all the other books, mentions salvation or justification by grace, but it also mentions works as non-optional and intimately connected to faith (precisely as James does). In my paper, “Catholic Justification” in James & Romans, I noted:

St. Paul opposes grace and/or faith to works in Scripture, only in a particular sense: the “works” of Jewish ritualism by which the Jews gained their unique identity (e.g., circumcision).

The Apostle Paul doesn’t oppose grace, faith, and works, and in fact, constantly puts them together, in harmony. Here are two typical examples:

1 Corinthians 15:10 (RSV, as throughout) But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me.

2 Corinthians 6:1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

Grace and works are for Paul, quite hand-in-hand, just as faith and works are. . . . 

St. Paul states:

Romans 3:28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law. (cf. 3:20; 3:24: “justified by his grace as a gift”)

But “justified by faith” is different from “justified by faith alone”. The “works of the law” he refers to here are not all works, but things like circumcision. In other words, we are saved apart from Jewish rituals required under Mosaic Law. Paul makes clear that this is what he has in mind, in referencing circumcision in 3:1, asking rhetorically, “Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all” (3:9), multiple references to “the law” (3:19-21, 28, 31), and the following statement:

Romans 3:29-30 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [30] since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith.

Paul is not against all “works” per se; he tied them directly to salvation, after all, in the previous chapter:

Romans 2:6-8 For he will render to every man according to his works: [7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; [8] but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.(cf. 2:13: “the doers of the law who will be justified”)

Paul uses the example of Abraham in Romans 4, in emphasizing faith, over against the Jewish works of circumcision as a supposed means of faith and justification (hence, he mentions circumcision in 4:9-12, and salvation to the Gentiles as well as Jews in 4:13-18).

Here are other passages in Romans, where Paul connects faith and works and sees no dichotomy between them (“works” portions highlighted in blue):

Romans 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is written, “He who through faith is righteous shall live.”

Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 

Romans 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction;

Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,

Romans 8:13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. 

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”

Romans 14:23 But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

Romans 15:17-18 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has wrought through me to win obedience from the Gentiles, by word and deed,

Romans 16:26 but is now disclosed and through the prophetic writings is made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith —

Thus, we can readily observe that Bob’s description of the teaching in the epistle to the Romans is dead-wrong, too. What a shock!

Earlier, I alluded to Protestant-Catholic differences about justification. Yes, they are real. But they don’t mean that the Bible contradicts itself. I have shown above in great detail that there is no contradiction in this regard. The two sides wholeheartedly agree about the following:

1. Salvation is by ultimately caused by God’s grace alone.

2. Man cooperates with or at least accepts this free grace in order to be saved.

3. Justification is by faith.

4. Good works are absolutely necessary in the Christian life. It’s questionable that someone is or will be saved, or in the state of grace if these works are not evident in their life

Protestants go on to say that justification is by faith alone, which Catholics deny (and it’s a very involved, confusing discussion). Protestants formally separate works from justification, and place them in a separate category of sanctification (while Catholics essentially conflate justification and sanctification). But it’s also good Protestant teaching to assert the absolute necessity of good works in the saved or elect person, as proof of an authentic faith (which basically brings us back to the emphasis of James again):

Catholic-Protestant Common Ground (Esp. Re Good Works) [4-8-08]

Martin Luther: Good Works Prove Authentic Faith [4-16-08]

John Calvin: Good Works Manifest True Saving Faith [9-4-08]

Martin Luther: Strong Elements in His Thinking of Theosis & Sanctification Linked to Justification [11-23-09]

Martin Luther: Faith Alone is Not Lawless Antinomianism [2-28-10]

Moral of the story: don’t trust atheist and anti-theist polemicist and sophist Bob Seidensticker to be any sort of accurate or reliable guide to Bible teaching. Go to someone who has actually studied the Bible and who understands it, and how to interpret it. In case anyone is wondering, I’ve been intensely studying the Bible for 41 years: 37 of them as an apologist, and the last 17 as a full-time Catholic apologist, with strong credentials and 50 published books and hundreds of “officially” published articles.

I know what I’m talking about in this area. Bob doesn’t; and I highly suspect that his profound ignorance (when someone who actually knows the subject matter confronts him) is a prime reason why he hasn’t uttered one peep in reply to my first 21 installments in this series. It’s virtually certain that he will ignore this reply, too. Just watch and see! If he replies, and I’m made aware of it, I’ll note that here, and will counter-reply, since I (very unlike Bob) am quite confident of my views.

If I am proven to be wrong, I change my mind. After all, I was once a Protestant for my first 32 years (I’m now 60), so I have changed my mind in massive ways, in terms of theology (as well as in many other major moral and political issues).

***

Photo credit: The Good Samaritan, by Jacopo Bassano (1510-1592) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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2018-09-20T13:44:13-04:00

See Part I and Part II and Part III. “JS” is a Catholic and a Thomist. Note the different color scheme below. My words will be in blue [not the usual black], “JS’s” in black [not the usual blue]; JS’s previous responses green; Scripture red; Ludwig Ott purple; William G. Most, J.P. Holding, Adam Clarke, and Church Fathers in brown.

*****

What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? God forbid! For He saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy. And I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. (Romans 9:14-17) 

It doesn’t say that it is unconditional: that is what you read into the passage. 

The Scriptures do not use the word “Trinity” either, yet the reality that this word signifies is pulled forth from the words of Jesus. Simply because the word “unconditional” is not explicitly stated, does not mean the concept is not present. By unconditional is meant that which is neither conditioned nor contingent upon anything. For example, love that is unconditional (such as with God) is without cost or strings attached. So when St. Paul states rather clearly, So then it is not of him that wills or him that runs, but of God that shows mercy it seems clear to me that God’s eternal decree to save some and not others does not depend (not of him) on any actions of ours- past, present or future. Further, as noted already at length, even if I did concede that it depends on future merits, these merits are only merits on account of prior grace, which in turn brings us back to the absolute dispensation of God’s grace for the salvation of the elect.

You simply eisegete the passage according to your prior view, just as Calvinists do in supposed support of their double predestination. 

Drawing logical conclusions from the literal-historical meaning of a given text is not eisegesis, as I’m sure you would agree. You, however, are content to stymie the implications of Romans 9-11 because St. Paul doesn’t use the critical word “unconditional” or the phrase “absolute predestination of the elect”. But if that is your approach to the Scriptures, then you might as well abandon a host of Catholic doctrines that are not explicitly stated in Scripture, but are only implied in seminal doctrines. Further, you seem to forget the fact that the Calvinists are not completely wrong about everything! In fact, no heresy is completely devoid of truth. The kernel of truth in Calvinism, implicitly acknowledged by the Council of Trent, is that God absolutely predestines the elect to salvation. Trent condemned virtually all other tenets of Calvinism, except this important doctrine.

According to Trent, the error of “double predestination” is included in its very terminology. To predestine means to direct, or send beforehand. Now as noted at length already, God does not direct anyone to sin and, subsequently to hell, since this would contradict the teaching that God is supremely just and good. Therefore, absolute predestination cannot be applied to damnation, as Trent teaches. But Trent does not extend the same logic to the predestination of the elect. Implicitly then, the Church seems to accept the absolute predestination of the elect. Further, perhaps the Church at Trent did not feel the need to clarify the issue since up until the time of Molina no one questioned the absolute predestination of the elect.

Protestant sources of analysis

I found your sources of commentary somewhat interesting, and I am not going to take up much issue with them except for a few comments.

Protestant apologist James Patrick Holding has commented on this passage at great length, in response to anti-Catholic Reformed Baptist apologist James White. 

I can only smile at this approach of yours. I would not have expected that part of your rebuttal would entail placing me in the same corner as James White! Perhaps this is difficult for you to stomach, but maybe there is a certain grain of truth in White’s Reformist banter. If James White agrees with St. Augustine and St. Thomas that God absolutely predestines the elect to eternal life –– apart from foreseen consent- then it would seem to me there is some fertile ground for dialogue with him, since Trent did not condemn that proposition of Calvin.

Comments regarding James Patrick Holding

They [the rabbis after the NT] also argued that “unless God’s proposed destiny for man is subject to alternation, prayer to God to institute such alteration is nonsensical.”

In general, I enjoyed the long excerpts that you provided and find very few conflicting statements between them and the position of St. Thomas or St. Augustine, especially since their position on predestination is radically different from Calvin’s. Both St. Thomas and St. Augustine respect the paradox of grace and free will; of faith and good works so I’m not quite sure the exact point that you are trying to make. I would argue that they articulate the relationship even better the Molinists do. Yet even as the author notes, paradox and contradiction are distinct. The Scriptures are full of paradoxes- apparent contradictions-but of course the Scriptures are inerrant and devoid of contradiction. The question that I proposed in my last response calls into question the Molinist conception of efficacious grace as extrinsic to the person and conditioned by his or her cooperation with sufficient grace.

This is the real heart of the issue. I think it is a contradiction, not a paradox, to assert that God’s will is infallible in saving the elect and at the same time assert that efficacious grace is not of itself efficacious as the Molinists do. I think Hebrew block logic (paradox) is better preserved in St. Paul’s writings by asserting that God’s will is infallible with regard to the elect, that efficacious grace is really efficacious, and that man is nonetheless completely free according to his nature (bearing in mind also, that his freedom is a secondary cause in relation to God, the divine cause of freedom).

In regard to the above statement on prayer, I wonder if it is simply an issue of semantics. The author probably would agree that the will of God is immutable, and His decrees are from all eternity, Whatever God wills in heaven is done. Therefore, prayer cannot, strictly speaking, alter the will of God. In fact, prayer is a consequence of the will of God manifesting itself through an individual. Since we walk by faith, not by sight, we hope and trust in God that our prayers (assuming they are made with the right intentions) will be answered; yet God already knows what we need. When the Scriptures speak of God “repenting” of a chastisement for example, or heeding the requests of Abraham or Moses, it is metaphorical, not literal.

For the prayers of the faithful are only the results of actual grace working through them. In other words, the prayers of the faithful are secondary causes, and when the Scriptures call us to prayer they are referring to secondary causes of God’s grace. Yet the primary cause of prayer is grace, whether actual or habitual, since all good things ultimately come from God as a first cause. Are we therefore not to pray at all? Obviously, we should always be at prayer. Yet we must realized that prayer is the fruit of God’s grace working through us, not the initial cause of grace in us, as I’m sure you would agree.

I agree that mercy and compassion – the offering of covenant kinship and consideration- are free. It is once we are within that relationship that rewards and punishments begin to come into play. 

No disagreement here, since rewards are the crowning merits that God works through our free cooperation. And any punishment that is incurred is not the result of God having positively damned one from all eternity, but rather the just penalty inflicted upon one for disobedience to the commandments. All men have been given sufficient grace to keep the commandments; those that don’t it is their fault; those that do, it is the gift of Him who saves (Quierzy).

And yes, there does remain a contrast, in my view, between mercy and hardening: it is the stark contrast between covenant concern and non-covenant disregard. 

Yes; if I understand this correctly, it would seem that the author preserves the distinction between mercy (as completely gratuitous) and justice (as commutative).

And yes, the will of God is to decide who he enters into kinship relationships with. But no, this still doesn’t eliminate characteristics as a factor in God choosing people for specific assignments; and it does not eliminate free choice of humans as a factor in salvation. 

No disagreement again, I find no intrinsic difficulty in reconciling the positions of St. Augustine and St. Thomas with this formulation.

Comments regarding Adam Clarke

That these words are used in a national and not in a personal sense, is evident from this: that taken in the latter sense they are not true, for Jacob never did exercise any power over Esau, nor was Esau ever subject to him. 

There is a consistent theme in the Scriptures in which there is a personal and corporate dimension to each covenant, in that the covenant mediators embody the corporate experience of those who are the recipients of the covenant blessings (or curses). So, for example, the covenant blessings of creation were bestowed upon all of mankind through the mediation of Adam; and likewise the covenant curses were levied upon mankind through Adam. There is a double meaning to Adam: 1) he is a real individual person; and 2) He is the prototype of mankind, he symbolizes all of mankind. Likewise, God’s covenant blessings for Abraham directly pertained to Abraham; yet they were ultimately fulfilled not in him, but in his posterity. The struggle for faith and obedience among the Israelites after the Exodus was embodied by the persistent doubting of Moses at Meribah: just as Moses could not enter the promised land on account of his lack of faith, neither could anyone in that generation that tested God in the wilderness (Psalm 95). And it was David and his earthly experience of election, exile and sin that personified the experience of the Israelite kingdom.

Finally, all of these experiences are types and foreshadowing of Jesus and the mystical body of Christ, which shares in the death and resurrection of Christ. With this canonical context in mind, it would seem inconsistent to interpret the passage, Jacob I have loved, Esau have I hated, in either a strictly personal or national sense. To do so would not respect the block logic of Hebrew that your earlier source alluded to. In light of the experience of the Israelites, it would seem that the words are both personal and national, since Israel was both personal (Jacob) and national (in terms of priesthood and kingdom). God clearly chose Jacob, since the covenant blessing ran through his line of descendants, even though Esau was the firstborn son of Isaac. Therefore, God favored Jacob more than Esau, and apparently not because of his trickery. Yet, as Clark observes, “Esau” was not made subject to Jacob in a literal sense; it wasn’t until the establishment of the Davidic kingdom that Esau was made literally subject to Jacob.

So, it would seem to me that the most appropriate interpretation of Romans 9 would be to take Jacob in the personal sense, with regard to the literal meaning of the text, since God favored the person Jacob over that of Esau in terms of covenant blessing. But, it would seem that one ought to take “Jacob” and “Esau” in the national since as far as the allegorical sense of the Scriptures are concerned, since it wasn’t until the experience of the Israelites developed under David that the prophecies concerning Jacob and Esau were fulfilled. Thus, provided that the various senses of Scripture are preserved, there is no reason to subject the passage to a univocal interpretation.

Finally, even if I were to grant Clark’s treatment of Romans 9 in a strictly national sense, the point remains moot because whether we are talking about God’s election of an individual person (Jacob) or a group of people (Israel) we are still dealing with a complete manifestation of God’s mercy in electing the Israelite people- not on account of any merits of their own- but on account of God’s free choice to manifest His plan through them. Still further, it would seem to be somewhat of a dilemma for the Molinists to argue that God could have chosen Israel on the basis of foreseen merits, since they would eventually break the covenant repeatedly and ultimately reject the Messiah. Given what the Bible tells us about the Israelite people, God certainly could not have or did not choose the Israelites on the basis of foreseen merits or lack of demerits.

The reference to this parable [Jeremiah 18] shows most positively that the apostle is speaking of men, not individually, but nationally; and it is strange that men should have given his words any other application with this scripture before their eyes. 

In Romans 9:21, there is no direct reference to Jeremiah. St. Paul does not explicitly cite Jeremiah 18 in order to formulate his argument about the potter and the clay in relation to the Israelite people. While undoubtedly, Jeremiah 18 does give us one “glance” by which can understand the allegorical sense of St. Paul’s words, there is no reason to reduce Romans 9:21 to a strictly national interpretation. As noted above, it is national in an allegorical sense; yet it remains personal too, since the covenant blessings involved the election of specific individuals to bear forth these covenant blessings. With due respect to Clark, we need to avoid univocal interpretations of any scriptural texts, since there are a variety of senses to the Scriptures. Univocalism, with regard to Scriptural interpretation, seems to be a common characteristic of the various forms of Protestantism. And also, as noted above, the issue is not entirely relevant anyway, since whether we are talking about the election of a group of people or a single person, the issue still remains: are foreseen merits a consequence of prior election or does election take place in view of foreseen merits?

In the Scriptures, the election of groups of people always follows the election of a single person. Thus, the election of the “Jews” (descendents of the line of Judah) followed the royal election of David, who stemmed from the tribe of Judah. The election of Israel followed the election of Jacob. The election of the Levites as the priestly tribe of Israel followed the election of Aaron the Levite as high priest. Thus, in the Scriptures there is a “bi-polarity” of election: 1) in terms of an individual person who is chosen as an instrument (and prototype) of God’s plan of salvation 2) a group of people who have kinship bonds with that chosen individual. Lastly, we find the same truth expressed and fulfilled in Christ, the mediator of the true and everlasting covenant, and His Church, the mystical body in which- through baptism- He has established kinship bonds with.

The Fathers and Romans 9-11

In your last response, you asked to refrain from discussing individual citations from the Fathers. I cannot fully comply with this request, since part of your argument is that the doctrine of middle knowledge can be found in at least some of the Fathers. Therefore, you conclude it has at least equal, if not greater support, in the Tradition of the Church. I believe that the premises of Molinism must be read into the Fathers in order to make the claim that it has some basis in their writings.

God does not have to wait, as we do, to see which one will turn out good and which on will turn out bad. He knew this in advance and decided accordingly. –St. John Chrysostom 

I’m not sure why you selected this quote because it would seem to be a much stronger argument in favor of the position of Augustine and Aquinas, rather than Molina. When St. John states, He knew this in advance . . ., it would seem that he is implying absolute predestination because in the previous sentence he states that God already knows which one will turn out good and which on will turn out bad, and it doesn’t say that God knows this on the basis of foreseen merits. He simply states that God had foreknowledge of the elect and the non-elect and decided accordingly. This would seem to support Augustine’s definition of predestination: Predestination is the foreknowledge and preparedness on God’s part to bestow the favors by which all those are saved who are to be saved

This entire scheme presupposes that God already knows who will be predestined, and he prepares and bestows those graces to infallibly secure their birth into eternal life. I see the above quote by St. John as simply another way of putting it, but substantially the same. Again, to read middle knowledge into St. John’s statement is anachronistic.

So also he chose Jacob over Esau…Why be surprised then, if God does the same thing nowadays, by accepting those of you who believe and rejecting those who have not seen the light? –Theodoret 

I don’t understand how this quote does not support the Augustinian interpretation of Romans 9, I will show mercy on who I will show mercy. Quite simply, God chose Jacob (and concomitantly all of Israel) because He loved him more than Esau. This is the principle of predilection that St. Thomas formulates and develops: God’s love is the cause of all that is good; therefore, one thing would not be better than another if God had not loved it more than the others. Why God chose Jacob over Esau is not immediately clear to us in this life; it appears somewhat arbitrary from the standpoint of human (finite) limits of justice.

Such is the wisdom of God that St. Paul exalts in Romans 11, a wisdom that can only be contemplated on the basis of God’s utterly gratuitous love for mankind. The problem with Molinism is that it tampers with this mystery; it does not fully respect its transcendence and tries to rationalize it (though again, not to the point of heresy) so that God appears fairer, more humane. St. John Chrysostom follows the sentiments of Theodoret and St. Augustine in likewise respecting the complete transcendence of this mysterious relationship between God’s mercy and justice:

Paul says this in order not to do away with free will but rather to show to what extent we ought to obey God. We should be as little inclined to call god to account as a piece of clay is. 

This statement is perfectly consistent with St. Augustine and St. Thomas, since neither wish to do away with free will either. Yet Chrysostom again yields to the brightness of the mystery, which is too sublime for the human intellect to fully grasp. As the Council of Trent admonished, we ought to entrust ourselves to the providence of God, to the sacraments, and to perseverance in good works, since the sovereignty of God is absolute (not conditioned) and He will show mercy on whomever he wishes to show mercy.

No one can be absolutely certain of his or her salvation (except via private revelation) in this life; so we must hope for that which we do not as yet possess, and remain obedient to the will of God. Yet who will call God to account for why some fall away and others persevere? We must also remember the distinction between the primary cause of obedience, which is God’s grace working through us and with us, and the secondary cause of grace, which is our free will manifesting God’s grace through cooperation.

God does nothing at random or by mere chance, even if you do not understand the secrets of his wisdom. You allow the potter to make different things from the same lump of clay and find no fault with him, but you do not grant the same freedom to God! . . . How monstrous this is. It is not on the potter that the honor or dishonor of the vessel depends but rather on those who make use of it. It is the same way with people- it all depends on their own free choice. –St. John Chrysostom 

Indeed, it does all depend on our free choice- in the order of execution. Yet, that some choose to cooperate with God’s grace is the fruit and expression of efficacious grace working through them; that some do not is their own fault, as Quierzy clearly teaches. I don’t think this understanding at all conflicts with the writings of St. Augustine or St. Thomas. In the order of intention, of course, it all depends on God, since God does nothing at random or by mere chance, even if you do not understand the secrets of His wisdom. Again, we are dealing here with the block logic of Christianity in general: when the Scriptures and the Fathers speak of obedience, cooperation, and perseverance in good works, they are talking about secondary causes, since these actions presuppose a prior grace that moves the will to do these meritorious works.

When the Scriptures speak of the will of God and of that grace which justifies man, they are talking about the five causes of justification- final, formal, instrumental, effective and efficient- each outlined nicely by Ott as he follows the teaching of the Council of Trent (see p.251). The effective cause of justification- sanctifying grace- is the sole cause of justification in man, according to the Council of Trent. Consequently, it can be inferred that sanctifying grace is efficacious in and of itself to bring about justification, since it is the sole cause of justification in man.

Therefore, since it is efficacious in and of itself, it is not rendered efficacious by man’s free consent to cooperate, but rather is the cause of man’s cooperation which brings forth meritorious works. Consequently, if efficacious grace is the cause of merits, and not the result of cooperation; so too, by analogy, the absolute predestination of the elect is likewise the cause of God’s dispensing efficacious grace in accordance with His wisdom, and not the result of foreseen cooperation. Again, any such cooperation that is foreseen is already the result of prior grace dispensed, since the execution of an intention can never be prior to the intention itself (logically speaking).

The following quote that you furnished from Theodoret also seems to follow the teaching of the Council of Quierzy, which distinguishes reprobation and predestination,

Those who are called vessels for menial use have chosen this path for themselves . . . This is clear from what Paul says to Timothy: If anyone purifies himself from what is ignoble, then he will be a vessel for noble use, consecrated and useful to the master of the house, ready for any good work 

The position of St. Thomas and his followers is that those who are reprobate incur damnation because of their own fault; they have, so to speak, chosen this path for themselves. And as far as the reference to Timothy, this text is a perfect example of secondary causes of justification: man cannot purify himself unless God moves Him to do so by efficacious grace; and it is only via efficacious grace that man is ready for any good work. That man cooperates is once again, the result, not the coordinate cause of justification. Logically (in causality, not in the order of time), grace precedes any good work.

All in all, you seem to be attacking my position, which is principally that of St. Thomas, by appealing to those Fathers of the Church and those Scripture passages that emphasize man’s obedience, cooperation, good works, and the foreknowledge of God. This is perhaps a great strategy for dealing with the Calvinists since they preach double predestination and total deprivation, but it will not work with the Thomists because they do not hold to such doctrines. The one common ground that the Thomists share with the Calvinists is that the elect are absolutely predestined- and apart from foreseen merits or the lack of foreseen demerits. And this position, which the Thomists and the Calvinists share, was not condemned at Trent, a fact that is significant.

The Dialogue Resumed

O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are His judgments, and how unsearchable his ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor? Or who has first given to Him, and recompense shall be made him? For of Him and by Him and in Him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:33:36) 

St. Paul here yields to the mystery of why God chooses some for election and others he permits to fall into and remain in sin. 

He does? Where does that them appear above? I must have missed it.

Apparently you did! In Romans 11, St. Paul is adding the finishing touches to his doctrine of absolute predestination of certain men to eternal life. He is applying it to the mysterious election of the Gentiles in the wake of the Jewish rejection of the Messiah. The primary objection, which was raised in Romans 9:19-22, is that God is somehow unjust because He permits some men to fall into and remain in sin, whereas, certain other men are predestined to eternal life. St. Paul states,

You will say to me then, ‘Why does he still find fault? For who can oppose his will?’ But who indeed are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Will what is made say to its maker, ‘Why have you created me so?’ Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for a noble purpose and another of an ignoble one? What if God, wishing to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction? 

St. Paul makes no attempt to solve this mysterious aspect of predestination by appealing to foreseen merits. For such would be a rationalization of the mystery at hand, which involves the reconciliation of two infinite perfections in God: His infinite mercy and His infinite justice. For St. Paul, the mind must submit to the mysterious unity of these two perfections, which remains hidden from us in this life, despite the absolute predestination of the elect and the conditional negative reprobation of the wicked. Hence St. Paul declares, Oh the depth of the riches of the wisdom and the knowledge God! How incomprehensible are His judgments and unsearchable His ways?

The solution of St. Thomas and St. Augustine halts at this mystery and respects it fully as there is no attempt to tamper with it. And this “halting” of the intellect before the brightness of this mystery is no less of a “cop out” than St. Paul’s admission of the “incomprehensibility” of the wisdom and knowledge of God. While Molinism is not heretical, it does not fully respect the mystery; it seeks to penetrate and “rationalize” it via middle knowledge and foreseen merits, so that it appears more respectable and “humane.” I candidly disagree with this approach, and find it to be vain.

No one is denying that God is sovereign!!! It doesn’t help your argument to keep repeating things that we already agree on. 

The issue isn’t that the Molinists reject the sovereignty of God; the issue is that the Molinists condition the sovereignty of God. I’ve already shown above that God’s will is radically sovereign, Whatever God wills in heaven is done (Psalm 115:3). So logically, I reject any “conditions” placed on God’s will. To be sovereign in some regard, means to act without interference or influence from an outside source. So it seems to me that if we say that God’s will to save some men is conditioned by foreseen merits, God is not completely sovereign. God is still sovereign to some degree, but not entirely so in the Molinist scheme.

So if you admit that grace does not depend on foreseen consent, then it would seem contradictory to state that election is based on foreseen consent. 

That doesn’t follow because the consent itself is from grace; therefore, it would be (in Molinist thought) God “crowning His own gifts” just as the Church has proclaimed that he does in cases of merit per se. 

I’m not sure I understand this response. In an earlier response, you stated that grace does not depend on foreseen merits; but you maintain that election does. But is not election an unmerited gift (grace) bestowed upon certain men? Election is the cause of sanctifying grace in that those who are elected are the determined recipients of such grace (in the order of intention); yet on the other hand, election is the fruit of grace (in the order of execution), in that God “crowns His own gifts” according to St. Augustine.

In the end, the entire process involves grace (which according to you is not dispensed based on foreseen merits) working through human freedom in order to manifest meritorious works. As I see it, you can’t hold (without contradiction) that the dispensation of grace does not depend on foreseen merits, but election does or could depend on foreseen merits, since the two realities are inseparable from each other.

Nope; I am departing from Pelagianism. 

Not exactly; Molinism entails the view that the dispensation of efficacious grace to the elect is contingent upon foreseen merits. If you reject this possibility (as you seemed to indicate in your last post) you have parted theological company with Molina. Ludwig Ott states rather concisely, “According to them [the Molinists] God, by His scientia media, sees beforehand how men would freely react to various orders of grace. In the light of this knowledge he chooses, according to His free pleasure a fixed and definite order of grace” (p. 243).

Your fallacy is that you see “man’s will” and you immediately interpret it as if it is in inexorable contrast to God’s will. 

This would be the doctrine of total deprivation, which I do not accept. In my last response I argued that God works through all created being to accomplish His designs for 1) the universe as a whole and 2) species of the individual being and 3) the individual being itself. This entire line of reasoning contradicts the above statement. There is no intrinsic opposition between man’s will and God’s will, since God has ordained the human will towards universal good.

When we sin, this is indeed true. 

Not exactly. Even when we sin, we still choose something that is apparently good or good in some measure. Just as every error contains a measure of truth, so too every sin possesses a measure of goodness. A “sin” is a corruption of something good; it is the choice to do something that is not good enough for God or for man. For example, fornication is the corruption of the marital act, and as such it is neither worthy of God (in terms of justice to Him) nor is it worthy of man (it terms of our dignity as persons). Paradoxically, even when man sins, he cannot help doing something good- no matter how perverted this good may be- because the will is ordained to choose the good.

Therefore, election based on foreseen merits would be “within” God’s will and grace, insofar as it is not “distinct” from God in terms of cause or control. 

And again, those foreseen merits would not be “merits” unless God had already imparted the grace to secure them. There is no merit without grace; therefore, “foreseen” merits presuppose prior graces; the dispensation of these prior graces constitute “pre“-destination.

Until you recognize this biblical and theological paradoxical truth, you’ll keep repeating the same error over and over. 

As noted above, the position of St. Thomas and St. Augustine in no way compromises the “biblical paradox” that you speak of. So the point is moot.

The Thomist “physical” notion of causation (for virtually everything it seems) was critiqued at some length in my survey paper. I do not accept all of these Thomist “dogmas” or undisputed premises. I am a philosophical syncretist, as Suarez was. 

The Thomistic notion of physical causality follows philosophically from the first, second and final proof for God’s existence, which can be known with metaphysical certainty; in other words, it is impossible to refute them logically. Theologically, the Thomistic concept of physical causality flows from the intrinsic efficacy of grace moving the will to perform meritorious works according to its nature, as God moves, causes and directs all things according to their respective nature. The Catechism endorses the traditional 5 proofs and the First Vatican Council asserts that God’s existence can be known with certitude on the basis of his works.

These are not Thomist “dogmas”- whatever you may mean by this expression. St. Thomas himself refers to these as the “preambles of faith” in that they are the certain rational principles that establish a credible foundation for the Faith (“motives of credibility”). The sad reality of the high Middle Ages is that the Thomistic synthesis was abandoned, leading to a multiplicity of errors that we are still dealing with today (not withstanding Protestantism itself). Pope Leo XIII in Aeterni Patris strongly endorses the principles of St. Thomas “over all others”. As noted in my last paper, perhaps you could expound on these “undisputed premises”?

Finally, as per Ott, Suarez was not a syncretist; he was a Congruist. And if you do consider yourself a syncretist, your dilemmas are all the more magnified since in an attempt to pull forth the good from every system, you likewise incur all the bad.

That doesn’t eliminate your difficulties, as outlined in my survey paper, because you still have to explain why, in your system, God chooses one person and not the next, if election is unconditional. On what grounds? 

To attempt to explain the mind of God and to question the sovereignty of his actions is the essence of rationalism, which I seek to avoid. On what grounds? Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and unsearchable his ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor? (Romans 11:33-35).

This is what I don’t like about Molinism: it cannot fully accept the mystery of God’s love. Love transcends reasons, though it is not irrational either. Love does not have to give any reasons at all, it simply is what it is- I am who am. Apparently, God chooses one person and not the next because he loves the former more than the latter. Though that one is not saved is not the fault of God, but their own fault because of their actions. This is the principle of predilection noted above that was formulated by St. Thomas following the insights of St. Augustine: “God’s love is the cause of all that is good. Yet one thing would not be better than another, had God not loved it more than the other.”

Therefore, some are saved because God loves them more than others. Now, I hear you say as you read this: “that’s not fair! God loves everyone!” Indeed, it is not fair, if you mean to say that God is not treating everyone equally. God loves everyone, no doubt, and as such He wills that it is really possible for all to be saved. But that some are saved is solely the gift of Him who saves; and God saves those who he loves more so than the others or else everyone would be saved. David expresses this beautifully in Psalm 18:18-20:

He rescued me from my mighty enemy, from foes too powerful for me. They attacked me on a day of distress, but he Lord came to my support. He set me free in the open; he rescued me because he loves me. 

Does David mean to say that God does not love those who are not saved? Of course not! God loves all of creation; yet clearly the fact that he saves some and not others is on account of His greater love for those who He chooses to save. God loves the Virgin Mary more than He loves me, and I have no problem accepting this reality; even though God’s love for me is infinite, it cannot be greater than His love for Mary, for He has favored her infinitely more than me.

So it is, likewise in all of heaven. Everyone is overflowing with God’s love, yet some have a greater capacity for God’s love than others, and God made them that way to manifest His infinite wisdom. Therein lies the mystery that St. Paul speaks of. Love is mysterious, and I think that the Molinist has a hard time accepting just how great and infinite the love of God really is. Though it is not heretical, it does not fully respect the transcendence of this mystery.

Finally, the dilemma that you pose to me is equally a dilemma for you. For you have to explain, as a Molinist, why God arranges the conditions for some to be favorable for eternal life, and why he does not do so for another. Surely God is not powerless to lead a given soul to salvation- “Who can resist the will of God?” So the dilemma is yours as well as mine. I just happen to think that St. Thomas’ position better respects the beauty of this mystery as it was originally presented by St. Paul in Romans 9-11.

If you say that it is (in effect) arbitrary: he simply chooses one person and leaves the other to damnation (as we all can justly be left, etc) then you have to explain how this can be if, in fact, we are all equally blameworthy and should be damned. 

I would not say that God’s decision to elect some and not others is arbitrary. I would say that it is apparently arbitrary, meaning that it appears to be unjust or unfair in this life, but in fact it is not. The real difference, however, is that the Thomists accept the fact that the real reasons for why God chooses some and not others will only be known in the next life. So it is not arbitrary at all, but it cannot be fully grasped in this life. Again, as far as “explaining” the mystery goes, the previous post suffices, He saved me because He loves me. (Psalm 18:20)

If we are all equally to blame (original and actual sin), then if God will simply choose some for election and not others, I don’t see how you can escape the element of “unfairness” and lack of justice for those who are damned (since all are equally guilty). 

This is the only real objection; this is what it boils down to and St. Paul confronts this complaint in Romans 9: “It’s not fair!” Again, God is not fair, nor does He have to be; not everyone is perfectly equal according to nature. Equal in dignity, yes, but each with different capacities for grace. Some vessels are made for greater honor than others in the heavenly mansion. God is supremely just, as noted before. He gives to each: 1) enough graces so that it is possible for all to be saved and that if one is not saved it is solely their own fault (Quierzy) and 2) each according to their own capacity. So, for example, God gave Mary infinitely more graces than you or I because of her exalted calling.

Also, God gave St. Joseph more graces than you or I (and even all the saints) because of his calling -but not more than the Virgin Mary, who exceeds all manner of excellence among angels and men. Is God being “fair”? Strictly speaking He is not; but He is being “just” because He is pouring out grace according to nature and office. In other words, He is giving each person precisely what is due to him according to nature, and precisely what he needs in order to accomplish the purpose that God has for him.

If He chooses some “absolutely unconditionally,” as you say, then those whom He does not choose MUST be damned no matter what they do. And the practical result of that is exactly the same as in supralapsarian Calvinist double predestination, as Ott noted. 

If your line of reasoning here were really true, then the position of St. Thomas and a large host of doctors of the Church would have been condemned long before Calvin even emerged. This is a classic non sequitur argument, since the conclusion does not follow from the premise. Essentially, you are saying, “If God absolutely predestines some men to eternal life, then He must damn others no matter what they do.”

Ironically, this is the same fallacy of generalization that the Calvinists commit when they argue that because God predestines some men absolutely to eternal life, he must absolutely predestine some men to hell regardless of their merits. I will review the refutation of this consistent error of yours once again, since I have already dealt with it at length in my last response.

1) Predestination belongs to God’s mercy, which is unconditional and completely gratuitous (Grace is logically prior to merit)

2) Reprobation belongs to God’s justice, which is commutative and dispensed according to man’s actions (Sin is logically prior to punishment)

3) Therefore, grace and merit stand inversely related in contrast to sin and punishment.

4) Consequently,

a. Predestination is absolute, since it is unmerited; any “foreseen” merits are already the work of a prior grace, since grace is prior to merit (in terms of causation)

b. Reprobation is conditional, since it is decreed in view of demerits committed by the person, since sin logically precedes punishment.

Next:

1) God wills that all men be saved (antecedent will- God wills that is really possible for all men to be saved)

2) Not all men are saved (not everyone receives efficacious grace which secures meritorious works necessary for salvation- specifically that of final perseverance)

3) Therefore, God predestines some men, and not others.

4) As per above, the work of this predestination of a few is the work of God’s mercy. Therefore, God only bestows efficacious grace (specifically final perseverance) on the chosen few.

5) Yet, since God wills that it is possible for all men be saved, He bestows upon all men sufficient grace, so that it is really possible for them to keep the commandments.

6) Therefore, those who are lost are lost on account of their own refusal to keep the commands (Quierzy).

In summary, the reality of sufficient grace won by Christ crucified for all men secures the possibility of salvation for everyone. Yet only efficacious grace secures the reality that some men are saved. If God granted efficacious grace (specifically that of final perseverance) to everyone, then everyone would be saved, since efficacious grace moves man’s will to perform meritorious works and fulfill the commandments. Yet not everyone is saved. Therefore, not everyone is given these graces. Why does God give some men the grace of final perseverance? We don’t always know, other than the fact that God loves them more so as to impart those graces. Why does God allow final impenitence? Essentially, as a punishment for previous demerits. Why does God allow a just man to fall into sin? Essentially, for a greater good for that person and for the whole of God’s plan, which is not completely realized in this life.

We do know this much though: were it not for sin, Christ would not have come; and so God, in His supreme mercy, allows sin and the penalty that it deserves, for an infinitely greater good- our capacity to share in the Divine Nature, a teaching that positively excludes the Protestant doctrine of total deprivation. In the final analysis though, we are dealing with an absolute mystery that will only be fully realized in the next life. The best we can do on this side of heaven is to affirm the essential truths and contemplate their mysterious (though hidden) unity.

The proposed solution of the Molinists does not solve the dilemma either, but only further complicates it in a noble attempt to explain it. Since one must logically ask, why does God not pre-determine the most ideal circumstances for everyone to achieve salvation? Is God’s middle knowledge not infallible enough to see the possibilities in which everyone can be saved? Is God’s will not omnipotent enough to bring about the salvation of everyone? The same objection of “unfairness” on the part of God can be equally raised against the Molinists, and the Molinists might very well find themselves responding just like the Thomists. Yet unlike the Calvinists, both the Thomists and the Molinists do not accept double predestination and we yield to the mystery of God’s infinite justice.

It’s like saying there are ten murderers, and the governor (after trials of course) decides to hang five of them and let the others go scot-free. When asked how he could do this, he replies, “they were all guilty and worthy of death, so those who were executed cannot complain of injustice, but I have the right to pardon whomever I will, so the relatives of the executed men have no grounds whatsoever to complain of unfairness.” No one would accept that in this world of men, so why do large portions of Christians accept it when it comes to analyses of how God elects? 

This analogy is shocking to its audience, since no one would at first say that justice has been served- I agree. Perhaps equally shocking is Our Lord’s parable concerning the laborers and their wages. Who would agree that justice has been served if those who worked less get paid the same amount as those who worked the entire day? In terms of commutative justice, it makes little sense. Yet of course, what appears to be an injustice on the part of God in this life, from our finite and human limitations, must in reality be the perfect manifestation of justice from the view of heaven, since God’s ways are supremely just. I really think you have a hard time simply accepting the transcendence of God’s mercy and justice. The Scriptures do say, “God’s ways are not man’s ways.” And God does appear to be arbitrary when the Holy Spirit states, “I will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.”

We have every right to question a governor who would arbitrarily pardon five murderers, since he is human and bound to operate according to natural modes of justice. Yet we have no right to question God’s ways (Job 42; Romans 9), because He is infinitely beyond us. Why did Jesus grant the grace of repentance to Peter but not to Judas? To one thief but not the other? We cannot be absolutely certain why in this life, other than the fact that somehow this contrast between justice and mercy will be perfectly understood through the grace of the beatific vision.

Therefore, I reject this scenario and accept either Molinism or Fr. Most’s solution, because they are more in accord with an instinctive, intuitive understanding of how love and mercy and fatherhood function and operate. 

Of course; these schemes makes you “feel” better; they are largely motivated by emotions, not logic, as well as the restlessness that comes from not being able to fully understand God’s ways in this life. These solutions are very much a product of their times. In Molina’s case, it is a product of the Baroque Age following the Reformation; an age that wanted to refresh people and uplift their spirits in contrast to the stark coldness of Calvinism.

God rejects only those who continually spurn His grace. 

Yes, this is the meaning of conditioned negative reprobation.

It’s not like one’s position on these extremely complex matters has all that much effect on one’s Christian life. We follow and obey God. Period. This is interesting to ponder and debate, but it makes no practical difference which way one comes down on it. 

Certainly, it makes little difference as far as one’s standing with the Church. However, I’m not sure I’d agree about it not making a “practical difference” in one’s spiritual life- though I am not fully prepared to articulate all my reasons why I think it does make a slight, yet important difference as far as the logical consequences of each position is concerned, especially for one’s spiritual life.

Obviously, no one can overcome your reasoning as long as you remain within the Thomist paradigm that you have accepted. 

Thomism, in the eyes of the Church, is not a “paradigm”; nor is it one system among several competing systems. If, by Thomism, you mean St. Thomas’ adaptation of Aristotle to solve the philosophical problems of his day, I would agree with you. However, St. Thomas’ adaptation of Aristotelian philosophy was not what made him innovative. It was his broader approach to the unity and distinction of theology and philosophy that was not only innovative, but also officially endorsed by the Catholic Church in Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Aeterni Patris.

The theologian and philosopher who follows the example and principles set forth by St. Thomas is not bound to any philosophical system, because he recognizes faith’s ability to purify and exalt that which is true in any given system, while at the same time, following the legitimate principles of philosophy and reason, he is able to probe the mysteries of faith much deeper. Thus, “Thomism” in this broader sense (which is how I understand it), has an amazing capacity to evolve and adapt as new philosophical systems and questions emerge, rather than become bogged down by outmoded categories of thought. The great Thomists of the 20th century, such as Jacques Maritain, Etienne Gilson and Father LaGrange bear witness to this reality.

One has to overthrow various presuppositions that you hold in that paradigm which guide your own opinions and preclude other opinions. 

Again, these “presuppositions” are? And why are they questionable? And, if perchance they are valid (such as in St. Thomas’ proofs for God’s existence, or the principle of predilection) why do you deny the logical consequences? You are not exactly clear as to what your real dilemma with Thomism is.

I’m not beholden to any particular theological system other than the constraints of Catholic orthodoxy itself, so I am able to move more freely through these discussions and consider options that you have no freedom to consider because of your quasi-dogmatic Thomist preconceptions. 

As per the above post, Thomism, strictly speaking is not a “system” of theology or philosophy; it is a way of doing theology (and philosophy) that has proved itself highly effective, not only in the experience of the Church, but in her doctrinal teaching (Aeterni Patris, First Vaitican Council- De Fide, Fides et Ratio). The “Thomist” is not constrained by any system; he is only limited and liberated by Catholic Orthodoxy, as you pretend to be yourself. So your boasting about being able to move about more freely through these discussions, as well as your ability to consider other options, is really an indication of your narrow view of Thomism.

What I would suggest, since you are a convert to the faith, is that you really brush up on the contribution- not only of St. Thomas- but of those philosophers and theologians of the 20th century who responded wholeheartedly to the call of Pope Leo XIII to replicate the approach of St. Thomas Aquinas, and of St. Pius X to utilize the thinking of St. Thomas Aquinas to destroy the error of Modernism (Pascendi Domini). I can recommend a number of books if you would like on this subject. And as far as these “quasi-dogmatic Thomist preconceptions” that you keep complaining about, it would be really great if you could provide some examples. Perhaps it is not so much Thomism that you find dogmatic, but maybe my tone of argument?? I don’t understand these sweeping statements of yours.

I believe there is a profound truth in the fact that one of the first things that Martin Luther did after posting his 95 Theses was to publicly burn St. Thomas’ Summa Theologica. Of all the timeless treasures in Christian antiquity, why would he demonstrate such vehemence for the works of this great saint, if not for the fact that in them were already contained (prophetically I might add) the refutations to all his errors? There is something to be said for the strong anti-Aquinas prejudice that runs through the veins not only of Protestantism, but also of Modernism.

(which is why I could accept Fr. Most’s solution, as even half the Thomists he discussed it with could do). 

First, I don’t reject Fr. Most’s position because I am a Thomist. I reject it because I don’t think it solves the dilemmas of Molinism that it pretends to solve. I do believe that the solution proposed concisely by St. Thomas much better preserves the mystery that we are dealing with. Secondly, I don’t know of any reputable Thomist who is a Molinist- not that it really matters all that much. But if you have resources on these “Thomists” that Fr. Most apparently convinced as to the truth of his argument I would be interested in looking into it.

I don’t observe this to judge you or condemn you at all (it’s not a value judgment) 

Hmmm. I’m not sure I buy into this at this point in the discussion. Essentially what you are saying is “I’m free and you’re not because you are a Thomist.” I find this to be a silly diversion from the topic at hand.

I’m simply stating a philosophical (epistemological) observation, and a point of logic. 

And which point would that be? That Thomism is one system among many? If that is your point, it is moot because Thomism is not, properly speaking, a theological or philosophical system. If anything, Thomism would seem to coincide with your desire to have that freedom to consider other “options” within the bounds of Catholic orthodoxy.

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(originally 5-14-06)

Photo credit: image by Piotr Siedlecki (“Fractal Lines 2”) [Public DomainPictures.NetCC0 Public Domain license]

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2018-09-30T16:45:43-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. He asked me there, on 8-11-18“I’ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I’ve ignored on one or two of those posts?” He also made a general statement on 6-22-17“In this blog, I’ve responded to many Christian arguments . . . Christians’ arguments are easy to refute.” He added in the combox“If I’ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I’ve mischaracterized them.” I’m always one to oblige people’s wishes if I am able, so I decided to do a series of posts in reply.

It’s also been said, “be careful what you wish for.”  If Bob responds to this post, and makes me aware of it, his reply will be added to the end along with my counter-reply. If you don’t see that at the end, rest assured that he either hasn’t replied, or didn’t inform me that he did. But don’t hold your breath. On 8-24-18 Bob wrote (after having virtually begged to dialogue with me back in May) that my alleged “disinterest in the truth reflects poorly” on me. What are we to make, then, of his utter “disinterest” in defending his opinions against serious critique?

Bob’s words will be in blue. To find these posts, word-search “Seidensticker” on my atheist page or in my sidebar search (near the top).

*****

In his article: “The Irrelevant Wisdom of the Ten Commandments” (3-9-12; rev. 2-14-14), Bob writes:

[C]hapter 34 has this savage claim, “[God] will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations” (Ex. 34:7). And yet, three books later, we get this contradiction: “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin” (Deut. 24:16).

I’ve heard this rationalized this way: Deut. 24 is talking about what man must do. Man needs to treat people fairly and punish only the wrongdoers. Ex. 34 is talking about what God will do. God has a long memory and will hold a grudge against you to punish your descendants. It’s odd that Christians would imagine that God does something that is clearly immoral in our eyes. Anyway, God figures it out later: “The one who sins is the one who will die” (Ezekiel 18:4).

This passage and its erroneous interpretation are old chestnuts of anti-Christian polemics. But at least it is understandable that it would be a difficulty (at face value), because this is a somewhat complex concept to fully understand. Thus, this is a much more serious and worthy objection than the sheer nonsense I dealt with in my previous installment, about two supposed sets of Ten Commandments.

It so happens that I thoroughly dealt with this “problem” eight years ago, in my article, “God’s ‘Punishing’ of Descendants: Is it Unjust and Unfair?” The arguments there are involved and complex, so I urge readers interested in this topic to read the whole article. But I’ll highlight some of the major themes here (and add a few new things to “flesh out” the Christian argument even more).

Exodus 20:5-6 (RSV) you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, [6] but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (cf. identical passage Deut 5:9-10)

John W. Haley, in his book, Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible (Springdale, Pennsylvania: Whitaker House, n.d.; possibly 1992, originally published in 1874, pp. 86-87), provides perhaps the best short summary of this theme that I’ve seen:

[W]e may say that Jehovah “visits” the iniquity of the fathers upon their children, in that he permits the latter to suffer in consequence of the sins of the former. He has established such laws of matter and mind that the sins of parents result in the physical and mental disease and suffering of their offspring. . . . “injustice” is no less chargeable upon the author of “the laws of nature” than upon the Author of the Bible.
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Even if the above text conveys the idea not only of suffering, but also of punishment, yet the language, “unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,” indicates children who are sinful like their parents . . . Plainly children are intended to imitate and adopt the sinful habits and practices of their parents; hence, being morally, as well as physically, the representatives and heirs of their parents, they may be, in a certain sense, punished for the sins of those parents.
I think passages of this sort are (at least to some extent) of an anthropomorphic nature: they exaggerate God’s traits in a non-literal way in order to make Him more understandable to man. Another (I think, rather close) analogy would be the theme of “God hardening hearts”: which I have shown to be another way of saying that “God in His providence allowed Person X to harden his own heart.” All the relevant biblical texts along those lines, when considered as a whole, show this clearly. Bob made this argument and I refuted it in my earlier paper in this series: “Seidensticker Folly #3: Falsehoods About God & Free Will.”
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As in that instance, the present one is a matter of precisely understanding the literary nature and intent of the “difficult” passages in conjunction with many other passages that clarify it as “not nearly as bad as it sounds at first.” Even Bob — albeit in his usual sneering way –, in a sense acknowledges that other passages “balance” the “hard sayings.”
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He sees it, of course, as absurd contradiction (one motif is wicked and evil, the other good); we see it as the key to understanding the whole thing: the more obscure passages are explained and interpreted by many more clearer ones. Bob always looks for contradictions and absurdities in the Bible, and so (surprise!) he “finds” them. We assume (in our Christian belief in inspiration of Scripture, as God’s revelation) that passages can ultimately be harmonized, and so we usually conclude that this is in fact the case in particulars.
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In my paper on this issue, I listed (in their entirety) twenty Bible passages that clearly teach that every man is judged for his own sin, not that of another. For example:

2 Kings 14:6 But he did not put to death the children of the murderers; according to what is written in the book of the law of Moses, where the LORD commanded, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, or the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall die for his own sin.” (cf. parallel passage 2 Chron 25:4)

Jeremiah 31:30 But every one shall die for his own sin . . .

2 Maccabees 7:32 For we are suffering because of our own sins.

1 Peter 1:17 . . . who judges each one impartially according to his deeds . . .

Moreover, by consulting all related passages, we find at least three in which both concepts are present together (inter-generational punishment and individual accountability):

Exodus 34:6-7 The LORD passed before him, and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, [7] keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

Numbers 14:17-20 And now, I pray thee, let the power of the LORD be great as thou hast promised, saying, [18]`The LORD is slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of fathers upon children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.’ [19] Pardon the iniquity of this people, I pray thee, according to the greatness of thy steadfast love, and according as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.” [20] Then the LORD said, “I have pardoned, according to your word;

Jeremiah 32:17-19 `Ah Lord GOD! It is thou who hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thy outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for thee, [18] who showest steadfast love to thousands, but dost requite the guilt of fathers to their children after them, O great and mighty God whose name is the LORD of hosts, [19] great in counsel and mighty in deed; whose eyes are open to all the ways of men, rewarding every man according to his ways and according to the fruit of his doings; (cf. 31:30 above)

This suggests that such punishment “to the third and fourth generations” applies only to children who deliberately choose to follow the sinful ways of their parents, and is not stated in any absolute sense that would preclude individual pardon. Thus, the two strains are not ultimately contradictory, once one understands the sense of the passages. These three passages provide the interpretive key within themselves: God forgives repentant sinners, but punishes the individually guilty. Note that Exodus 34:6 provides a counter-balance of mercy to Exodus 34:7. Bob cites 34:7 while ignoring 34:6.

If we are to make much of God talking about punishment over three or four generations (setting aside how to interpret that, for a moment), then we ought to also notice three passages that strikingly highlight God’s extraordinary mercy:

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

1 Chronicles 16:15 He is mindful of his covenant for ever, of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, (cf. identical Ps 105:8)

So the “good stuff” and the mercy is described as lasting for a thousand generations, and the “bad stuff” for only four. That’s 250 times longer for the good things, compared to the bad. The merciful motif is much more prominent (even in the Old Testament) than the judgmental / wrathful God motif. But if one read only atheists blasting God and the Old Testament, they would get the distinct impression that it is the other way around.

For much more on this issue, see the superb article, “Generational Curses: Biblical Answers to Questions Raised by the phrase ‘visit the inquities to the third and fourth generation’ “ (Bob DeWaay, Jan/Feb. 2002). That wonderful examination is an example of serious Bible study and exegesis. By strong contrast, Bob (like so many atheists) merely “toys with” the Bible in a superficial, non-serious, fallacious way.

He doesn’t get it, and he obviously refuses to be corrected (as he claimed in his words that I cite at the top). We’re now up to 16 papers of this series, and we have not heard one peep back from Bob.

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Photo credit: God the Father, by Guercino (1591-1666) [public domain / Wikipedia]

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2018-09-10T12:16:41-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. He asked me there, on 8-11-18“I’ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I’ve ignored on one or two of those posts?” He also made a general statement on 6-22-17: “In this blog, I’ve responded to many Christian arguments . . . Christians’ arguments are easy to refute.” He added in the combox“If I’ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I’ve mischaracterized them.” I’m always one to oblige people’s wishes if I am able, so I decided to do a series of posts in reply.

It’s also been said, “be careful what you wish for.”  If Bob responds to this post, and makes me aware of it, his reply will be added to the end along with my counter-reply. If you don’t see that at the end, rest assured that he either hasn’t replied, or didn’t inform me that he did. But don’t hold your breath. On 8-24-18 Bob wrote (after having virtually begged to dialogue with me back in May) that my alleged “disinterest in the truth reflects poorly” on me. What are we to make of his utter “disinterest” in defending his opinions against serious critique, then? Bob’s words will be in blue. To find these posts, word-search “Seidensticker” on my atheist page or in my sidebar search (near the top).

*****

Bob wrote in his piece, “Contradictions in the Resurrection Account” (4-9-12; rev. 3-22-13):

How many days did Jesus teach after his resurrection? Most Christians know that “He appeared to them over a period of forty days” (Acts 1:3). But the supposed author of that book wrote elsewhere that he ascended into heaven the same day as the resurrection (Luke 24:51).

The post-Resurrection account of Luke 24 (RSV) refers to it being “the first day of the week” (Sunday) after the crucifixion. Then 24:13 says that Jesus’ appearance to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus occurred on “that very day.” The account of this story in Luke appears to unfold in an unbroken narrative, all in one day: ending as follows:

Luke 24:50-53 (RSV) Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. [51] While he blessed them, he parted from them, and was carried up into heaven. [52] And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy, [53] and were continually in the temple blessing God.

First of all, it’s important to note that even ultra-skeptical Bob assumes that Luke was the author of both books (“wrote elsewhere”: i.e., in the Gospel of Luke). Thus, according to him, Luke (or whoever the joint author was, in the skeptical mindset) blatantly contradicted himself in two different accounts of the same thing.

He would have us believe that Luke couldn’t figure out whether Jesus ascended on the same day as His Resurrection, or 40 days later (thus ludicrously asserted both). The Christian replies that Luke wrote the ending of his Gospel, knowing that the Book of Acts would be “Part II”: in which he would give a fuller account of Jesus’ Ascension.

Two clues in the Gospel account suggest that this is not a single day: if one looks closely enough at it. For one thing, if it were supposedly on the same day, Jesus’ Ascension would have been during the nighttime, since 24:29 has the disciples saying, “it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” This would blatantly contradict Luke’s further details in Acts:

Acts 1:9 And when he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.

The second clue is 24:53: “and were continually in the temple blessing God.” If we interpret the entire passage as occurring in unbroken chronology, then this would be right after their return to Jerusalem. But it doesn’t sound like the description of one day. It only makes sense interpreted as a description of their worship practices over a period of time (“continually”).

I would never say, for example, “I returned from my visit to the lake with great joy and was continually in the gym playing basketball.” That clearly doesn’t read as just one night of basketball in the gym, but rather, as many times, over many days. We observe a parallel verse in Acts that makes this interpretation all the more plain:

Acts 2:46-47 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts, [47] praising God and having favor with all the people. . . . [“continually” = “day by day” / “blessing God” = “praising God”]

I submit that these factors already give strong indication that the account in Luke wasn’t ever intended to imply a one-day occurrence for all the events recorded (i.e., it was always intended to harmonize with Acts 1). But there is also a literary factor that I think decisively refutes the skeptical “contradictory” interpretation.

Luke uses a literary technique that I will further discuss below, called “compression” (or, sometimes, “telescoping”). Catholic apologist Steven O’Keefe explains, and provides an example:

Luke takes a couple related events which have a large gap between them.

Wanting to save space, Luke omits everything between those two events. . . .

Taken at face value, Luke says Paul escaped Damascus and went directly to Jerusalem:

“Their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night in order to kill him, but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket. || And when he had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples. And they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple.” – Acts 9:24-26

However, in Paul’s letter to the Galatians he recounts those same events.  There we learn that after Paul escaped Damascus he actually wandered in Arabia for a while.  Then he returned to Damascus for three years before finally traveling to Jerusalem.  It reads:

“But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone | nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.  Then after three years | I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.” – Galatians 1:15-18

Again, if you just read the text of Acts 9:25-26, you’d never know there was at least 3 years between those two verses.

Lucian of Samosata (c. 125 AD – after 180 AD) the Syrian rhetorician, in his treatise, How to Write History, stated:

Rapidity is always useful, especially if there is a lot of material. It is secured not so much by words and phrases as by the treatment of the subject. That is, you should pass quickly over the trivial and unnecessary, and develop the significant points at adequate length. Much must be omitted. [secondary source: Glenn Miller]

In his book, The Historical Reliability of the Gospels (IVP: 2nd edition, 2007, p. 216), Craig Blomberg took note of this and applied it to the Bible:

Perhaps the most perplexing differences between parallels occur when one Gospel writer has condensed the account of an event that took place in two or more stages into one concise paragraph that seems to describe the action taking place all at once. Yet this type of literary abridgment was quite common among ancient writers (cf. Lucian, How to Write History 56), so once again it is unfair to judge them by modern standards of precision that no-one in antiquity required. The two most noteworthy examples of this process among the Gospel parallels emerge in the stories of Jesus raising Jairus’s daughter and cursing the fig tree.

F. Gerald Downing, in his volume, Doing Things with Words in the First Christian Century (Sheffield: 2000, pp. 121-122) observed that the Jewish historian Josephus (37-c. 100 AD) used the same technique:

Josephus is in fact noticeably concerned to ‘improve’ the flow of his narrative, either by removing all sorts of items that might seem to interrupt it, or else by reordering them. . . . Lucian, in the next century, would seem to indicate much the same attitude to avoidable interruptions, digressions, in a historical narrative, however vivid and interesting in themselves.

Protestant apologist Glenn Miller, in his superb and characteristically thorough article, Contradictions in the Infancy stories?,” states: “this condensation, omission, and telescoping is pervasive in all of biblical literature. . . . this kind of literary style/device is everywhere in the NT narratives.” He then provides many examples (search the above quote to get to them, and see further examples in a separate article by former atheist Steve Diseb).

Michael R. Licona, Baptist New Testament scholar and professor of theology, specializes in the literary analysis of the Gospels as Greco-Roman biographies. I shall now cite his article (part of a larger debate), “Licona Responds to Ehrman on New Testament Reliability”:

Compression was a compositional device employed on a regular basis by historians in Jesus’s day. I provide several examples of compression and other compositional devices in my book scheduled for publication this fall, Why Are There Differences in the Gospels? (Oxford University Press, 2016).

[Dave: In Licona’s book — mentioned above — on pages 71-72, he noted that Plutarch also utilized compression in his book, Antony and that his work, Pompey omits details on the same events that are included in his Antony and Caesar]

. . . a very large majority of the differences in the Gospels are best explained in view of the compositional devices employed in the writing of ancient historical/biographical literature; those prescribed in the extant compositional textbooks written by Theon, Hermogenes, Quintilian, Aphthonius, and others, and those we can infer from observing patterns in how the same author using the same sources reports the same story writing around the same time but does so with differences.  . . .

Bart points out that the resurrection narratives in Matthew and John have Jesus appearing to them over a period of days if not weeks, while Luke’s narrative has Jesus rise from the dead, appear to all of the others, then ascend to heaven, all on the same day. Bart also observes that Luke contradicts himself at his ascension scene in Acts 1:3 by saying Jesus was with his disciples for 40 days after his resurrection and prior to his ascension. But this is also quite easily explained in view of the standard compositional devices of that day. Luke has obviously compressed his resurrection narrative. For in Acts 1:3 he knows Jesus had [stayed] with them for a longer period.

Why did he do so? Perhaps he was running out of space to write on his scroll. Luke’s Gospel is the longest of the four. Perhaps he compressed his account to move the story along more rapidly for effect. Perhaps it was to place an emphasis on Jerusalem where the church leadership resided and from where the church would spread. One can only guess. We may not be able to know why Luke compressed his narrative. But it is quite obvious he has compressed it.

Since compression was a common compositional device and is easily identified, are we really to regard Luke as an unreliable source and doubt the historicity of an event because he compressed his description of an event? Bart chooses to do so. But I am under no obligation to follow him on the matter. And those who do are required to take the same approach with virtually all ancient historical literature, at least if they are interested in being consistent. And in so doing, they deprive the term “historically reliable” of any practical meaning. [some paragraph breaks added]

Scot McKnight did a review of sorts of Licona’s book, on his blog at Patheos (which also hosts my own blog). He observed:

Plutarch’s Lives are written as rough contemporaries of the Gospels and they are both “lives” (biographies, bioi) and hence seeing how one operates (Plutarch) may provide categories for understanding how the Evangelists were operating. The only assumption here would be that the conventions for biographical writing would be similar. Licona is accurate in this assumption/conclusion.

I want to make it very clear what I am arguing and am not contending. My friend, Dr. Lydia McGrew, who has done intensive study on these sorts of textual disputes, and has written the book, Hidden in Plain View: Undesigned Coincidences in the Gospels and Acts (2017), made the following helpful comments on my Facebook page, that I completely agree with (edited a bit to make them more coherent for my present purposes):

One should oppose alteration of the facts in such a way that the narrative invisibly appears to be saying something that would, in fact, be false, but that the authors were permitted “by literary conventions” to do on a pretty broad scale. The Evangelists did not invent out of whole cloth the non-overlapping portions of their narratives.

The word “compression” is ambiguous and is one that gets used in two very different ways. Luke wrote quickly and briefly, but he did not deliberately “make” all the events take place on Easter.

The question is whether the author is to be understood as deliberately placing the action into a shorter period or merely writing in a way that could be taken to mean that the action took a shorter time period than it did. This is an absolutely crucial distinction. The former means that the author deliberately attempted to create an appearance contrary to fact: a “fictionalizing literary device.” Even Lucian doesn’t advocate doing that.

Luke [in Luke 24] didn’t “put” all of the events on Easter Day. In other words, it is not the case that Luke knew that they took longer but nevertheless attempted to make it look like they all occurred on Easter Day. There is no reason to think that “in the story” as Luke writes it, the events all occurred on Easter Day.

We have no evidence that it was “allowed at the time” or that the Gospel authors would have “considered themselves allowed” to compress in the fictionalizing sense as opposed to the shortened narration sense.

One can give an abridged / CliffsNotes version of a story and a longer one, without inventing anything or fudging facts. That’s what I believe Luke did. One could compare, for example, the many short and long versions of my conversion story to Catholicism. An atheist could “find” a host of “contradictions” in those.

I think this “literary” understanding and explanation quite sufficiently refute the charge of “contradiction.” Its not so much that Bob Seidensticker has done no study of the texts. He goes out and grabs however many standard atheist charges of alleged “biblical contradictions” suit his purpose. Many of these have circulated for centuries, and have long been refuted by Christians. The problem is that he has not studied deeply enough. He appears to have no awareness that Christians have explained the current problem in the manner seen above. I did a search of his voluminous site for “compression” and “telescoping” (in the literary sense). They turned up nothing whatsoever. Bob is blithely unaware of both.

The latter shortcoming is extremely common in atheist “exegesis” (so-called), and in my opinion it is because of the extreme bias. The atheist has no interest in truly understanding biblical texts or in resolving the problems of seemingly clashing texts. It’s too much fun to throw them in Christians’ faces. They usually approach the Bible, as I’ve said for years, like a butcher approaches a hog.

Unless and until the Bible is understood as a sophisticated text, that can be analyzed just like any ancient text (and given the same respect, apart from any religious adherence), atheists will continue to make lousy arguments (largely from mere prima facie appearance), and will end up looking foolish and unprepared and over their heads, as Bob does yet again.

So far it is fourteen critiques of his arguments and absolutely no response from him (despite his confident challenge recorded in my Intro.). Does anyone know if Bob is still alive? If he has departed this mortal coil that might explain his non-answer. But I have a hunch that he is still kicking, up in the hills — like an atheist Elijah — in a secret cave. I’m here waitin’: should he decide to ever venture back into serious, open, and civil discourse with a Christian apologist opponent.

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Photo credit: Ascension of Christ (c. 1894), by Gebhard Fugel (1863-1939) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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2018-08-23T11:59:41-04:00

The so-called “infallibility regress” argument breaks down insofar its tacit assumption that no one can determine (not with finality or “authority”) what the Church is. It is essentially a proposal of radical skepticism or rationalism at the expense (to a degree) of supernatural faith and revelation: it amounts (when closely scrutinized) to a belief that God doesn’t have the power to grant one the faith and grace of finding the apostolic Christian Church, so that he can in turn discover true doctrine and theology and hence be better able to follow Jesus.

To the extent that Protestantism denies this possibility altogether, and leaves the task of discovering true Christian doctrine, Tradition, and Church squarely and ultimately on the shoulders of the individual, I think it must be opposed as both nonsensical and unbiblical as well.

This is not merely a philosophical proposition. The Bible clearly (I think) teaches about both an authoritative Church and a Tradition. The fathers assumed this, and that was their ultimate appeal against the heretics, who invariably relied on their private judgment in the “non-ecclesiastical” sense that Newman wrote about, and sola Scriptura. For the Fathers, what had “always been believed” was the determinant of orthodoxy. God had the power to preserve apostolic doctrine inviolate and to protect the true church from error.

It requires faith to believe this, and that is what a Catholic does: we have faith that this Church can exist and that it can be identified and located. We don’t say this rests on our own individual choice. It is already there; like “stumbling upon” the Pacific Ocean or Mt. Everest. We don’t determine whether the thing exists or not. And we must believe it is what it claims to be by faith, absolutely. Why should that surprise anyone except a person who thinks that Christianity is determined purely by arbitrary choice and rationalism without faith?

That is no longer simply philosophy or subjective preference, as if Christianity were reduced to Philosophy 0101 (where someone might prefer Kierkegaaard to Kant) or the selection of a flavor of ice cream. If we are to be biblical, the Bible refers often to a “passed-down tradition.” It is Out There. It exists. Newman would say that one can find this and submit themselves to it, by God’s grace (not human reason, though it is not inconsistent with the latter, nor with any biblical teaching).

We make the choice to be Catholic, but we don’t say that the choice was mere reasoning. It was led by God’s grace and necessary aid, just as salvation must be so originated. No one denies that Christians choose whether or not to follow God and become a disciple of Jesus. But that very choice was made possible only by God’s grace; otherwise it couldn’t have occurred at all, given the Fall (and the contrary view is the heresy of Pelagianism). Likewise, this is what we believe about the choice of the Catholic Church as the one founded by Christ, which we believe can be traced back to apostolic times in unbroken historical succession. This does not entirely exclude other Christians from the fold; not at all — but that’s another discussion and I can’t get into that at the moment.

Apart from this faith aspect, the Catholic (especially apologists such as myself) claims that our view of ecclesiology and theology is backed up by both history and the Bible, as well as reason. I would argue (among many other things) the fact that the Bible teaches one true Church, as evidenced by the early Protestant internal divisions. In the early days, they still believed that each school was the one, and the true Church in some sense. There was a visible structure (e.g., Calvin’s Geneva, or the Lutheran princes, who took over from the bishops). They believed in one church and one truth, however they may have defined it.

Today’s Protestants, however, are much less concerned with that and oftentimes become literally ecclesiological relativists, where Church affiliation comes down to worship styles, a good choir, a pastor who gives “meaty” or heart –stirring sermons, enough pretty girls to meet, etc.). I exaggerate to make a point. This is how many people choose where to go to church: not by a long study and comparison of competing doctrines or reading apologetics. I know many Protestants detest this as I do, but it still exists and is a problem. And it comes from the extreme application of this “private judgment” business, that Newman wrote about.
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Christianity is not simply philosophy or a Baskin-Robbins situation: “what flavor of the 47 ice creams should I pick?” It has a history, and whatever side one comes down on cannot exclude the historical criteria because they are intrinsic to Christianity and the biblical worldview, and always have been. This is simply what Christianity is. To be a-historical is as unbiblical as it is essentially foreign to a Christian outlook. Failing that, one can try to construct alternate ecclesiologies, as Luther and Calvin did. I think they fail as alternates of the Catholic Church, to the extent that they are alternates (i.e., where we disagree doctrinally). Why I think that would require huge discussions, where many points are dealt with in turn. It is a cumulative argument, involving a “wheel” of many spokes.
*

We arrive at truth by many different means. Belief in God is that way: it is experiential, moral, imaginative, philosophical (if someone is of that bent of mind), allegorical, etc. I became a committed evangelical Christian back in 1977 largely because of what is called the “moral argument,” which is not rationality per se but an internal sense of what is right and wrong, and that Christianity embodied those values.

God even used movies and music to bring me to Him back when I was a thoroughly secular pagan in the 70s (somewhat like C.S. Lewis, who came to Christianity through the route of mythology, Wagnerian music, and the like). Selection of a church should be a matter of faith and prayer and all the usual reasoning involved, just as conversion to Jesus Himself is, since the Church, if it exists, is a supernatural entity, even though fallible and sinful men and women are in it.

*
Since individual salvation or regeneration or conversion or being “born again” or committing oneself to Jesus Christ as His disciple (whatever one chooses to call it) itself is of the same nature, I don’t see that this reduces to relativism and “helplessness.” Somehow we come to believe in God. I think He can be seen in the works of creation, as Romans 1 teaches. But it requires faith and revelation to believe in the Holy Trinity or the Incarnation or Jesus’ Resurrection. Those things are revealed; they aren’t part of natural law, like God’s existence or innate realizations that murder or lying are wrong and evil.

Likewise, in choosing a church or denomination. All you can do is pray, study the issues, read all the sides you care to read, talk to people, look at the history of the various groups, study early Church history, study the Bible through and through and choose what you think is the closest to the biblical Church, as revealed in the Bible (and — if you value Church history and a visible Church as a continuation of the Incarnation, so to speak — what has existed in fact for 2000 years). It still takes God’s grace, just as conversion does.

*
The Catholic Church and apostolic Tradition are already entities “out there” which are not mere private interpretations. This tradition has been passed down and preserved and people are capable of finding it. St. Paul assumes this throughout his letters and the Fathers did also. Catholics believe as they do: that God has given us a revealed truth (which includes ecclesiology and a Church) and that he can enable individuals to discover it through grace and faith, so that they can get on with their lives and serve Him and their fellow men, rather than spending their lives on a perpetual agnostic-type quest for something that either doesn’t exist or very imperfectly only, or that one can never know enough to accept on the basis of reason. We make things so complicated that God always intended to be quite simple.
***
It’s not necessary to infallibly interpret; only to know and believe by faith, based on many cumulative, converging evidences, that there is an infallible authority. One simply accepts that. It’s not a game of philosophy, but of religious faith, grounded in reason and the Bible, and historical precedent.
*
The teachings are authoritative, if they come down to us from papal encyclicals, ecumenical councils, or the Catechism. All the fine-tuning and hair-splitting distinctions are for scholars and theologians and apologists to have fun arguing about; that’s what they get paid to do. But that has little relevance for Joe Q. Catholic. Catholics need not have doubts or confusion about what the Church teaches.
*
It’s highly ironic, too, for any Protestant to act as if Catholicism is a huge mass of confused uncertainty, when it is not at all, and their own systems really are that. It’s a nice diversionary tactic to rationalize one’s own severe and insuperable difficulties, but it won’t fly: not when there is an apologist like myself who can see through this and refute it.
*

Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum, written in 1992, states:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. May it serve the renewal to which the Holy Spirit ceaselessly calls the Church of God, the Body of Christ, on her pilgrimage to the undiminished light of the Kingdom!

The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church, to all the particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See: the service, that is, of supporting and confirming the faith of all the Lord Jesus’ disciples (cf. Lk 22:32 as well as of strengthening the bonds of unity in the same apostolic faith. Therefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

That’s more than sufficient to show anyone what the Church teaches. The pope said so. This is how our authority structure works.

*
The “infallibility regress” argument fails. The gist of it is that Christianity is not philosophy. One cannot achieve airtight, mathematical certainty in matters of faith. The Catholic authority structure is quite sufficient enough for us, as it was for the apostles and fathers.

And what is the particular brand of Protestantism that is superior to our system? It’s easy to take swipes at the Big Red Barn of Catholicism. But the question is: what is the better alternative? Then when we see how Protestants try to resolve authority problems, it gets truly self-defeating and absurd. That’s not true of Catholicism. It’s not philosophically airtight, but very few things are, so big wow. That’s a big yawner. But (I contend) all forms of Protestant ecclesiology break down and become self-defeating, the more they are scrutinized.

*

I maintain that the Protestant position is ultimately self-defeating and unworkable, I’ve argued this many times in many different ways. Note the following:

1) Catholics believe x about authority.

2) Protestants believe y about authority.

3) x and y are not consistent with each other at all points.

4) x and y, in fact, contradict each other in various ways.

5) Therefore, the one holding x must necessarily believe that y is unreasonable at those points in which it contradicts x.

6) And likewise, the one holding y must necessarily believe that x is unreasonable at those points in which it contradicts y.

7) Thus, assuming x is true, y is unreasonable where it contradicts x.

8 ) And, assuming y is true, x is unreasonable where it contradicts y.

I go further than this, to make other points:

1) Protestants massively contradict each other.

2) Contradictions entail at least one position being false, untrue, erroneous, or both positions being so. But they can’t both be true.

3) Therefore, where this occurs in Protestantism, someone is promulgating falsehood.

4) Falsehood is not of or from God.

5) Therefore, systems that freely allow (indeed, literally encourage) contradictions and thus falsehood to flourish are not furthering the cause of truth in religion or the biblical worldview that there is one solitary Christian truth and tradition.

Protestant principles of authority are not only unreasonable because they contradict ours, but because they contradict the Bible, and themselves, at various points, and become viciously self-defeating.

*
We have a very high degree of certitude of faith, based on Scripture first and foremost and also the development of our ecclesiology. Sola Scriptura is self-defeating by its very nature. Protestants have no way to resolve their internal disagreements because they have a flawed ecclesiology and authority structure. That’s why they are forced to adopt a position of theological relativism (on many so-called “secondary issues” — utilizing the unbiblical notion of primary vs. secondary doctrines). They’re forced into it by their history and present diversity.
*
It doesn’t mean there aren’t many wonderful and true things in Protestantism. There certainly are, and I note them and rejoice in that all the time, because I’m as ecumenical as I am apologetical, but on this they are dead wrong, and we see the fruit of their error all around us.
*
I think a lack of faith is really the bottom line with Protestants who reject Catholic claims. They don’t have enough faith to believe that God could and does protect a Church, which is a human institution, and Christian apostolic doctrine. They have the faith to believe in the higher, more involved gift of the inspiration of human sinners (Scripture) but not the lesser and far more limited gift of infallibility of human sinners (a pope and ecumenical councils and apostolic succession and sacred Tradition). Even that makes no sense. They have great faith in one instance that requires more faith and none (and outright skepticism) where less faith is required.
*

We aren’t making the individual the final arbiter of true doctrine, as Protestants do. To posit and believe by faith in an infallible Church makes perfect sense, because Christians already believe in an inspired Scripture, and that Scripture has much indication of an infallible Church. That is self-consistent. But to fall back on a mere non-infallible individual believer, who supposedly will figure all this stuff out, or else have to operate in a sort of limbo or agnostic or uncertain state in their Christian life, is not only absurd and perfectly implausible in the abstract, but chaotic in actual practice, as history has amply shown.

The fact remains that there is no chaos with regard to Catholic doctrine, for those willing to accept what the Church has clearly proclaimed; whereas there is plenty within Protestantism. The “infallibility regress” game can be and will be played, but it falls flat every time, when properly scrutinized (which is very laborious and time-consuming, as this reply proves. Disproving error is always a lot harder than assertion of error).

***

(abridged from two papers, dated 5-22-03 and 10-7-08)

Photo credit: Rilsonav (1-28-16) [PixabayCC0 Creative Commons license]

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2018-08-10T13:30:48-04:00

My dialogue opponent (on my blog) is a self-described “liberal” Catholic. His words will be in blue.

* * * * *

Then there is the whole sacrifice of Isaac scene. What is being portrayed in Genesis is not a God who issues eternal decrees conveying rational and consistent laws. Rather, we have a God who acts quite arbitrarily, and issues decrees that are temporal and specific to the individual.

God cannot act arbitrarily. That is blasphemy. So you are either questioning God or biblical inspiration. This incident is mentioned in Hebrews 11:17-19 and James 2:21. So do you now doubt the inspiration of the NT? Or do you simply pick and choose the verses you like and discard those that you don’t understand or don’t care for? Who is arbitrary now? Sounds like you, not our Lord God.

The moral lesson in Genesis, if there is one, is that we must always obey the dictates of conscience in absolute trust, and it this obedience that is credited to us as righteousness!

We must obey God, even though we don’t understand, yes. That’s what the book of Job is about. God has the power over life and death. Abraham could theoretically sacrifice his own son (but note that God didn’t really intend for this to happen, since He prevented it), because God the Father sacrificed His own Son.

I do not believe that Exodus and Genesis are written entirely by the same human author, or even in the same time period, which may be part of the confusion I see coming out over the high level exegesis I have already provided. I believe that there are different sources at work here, and though I am not a strict four-sourcer, I do find the J,P,E and D categories helpful to understanding a point I will make later.

I reject that, for various reasons, and think that it is fatal to solid exegesis. In a nutshell, what I would call the “liberal” exegete always has an “out” of simply denying that the text was in the original, or attributing it to one of the other “letter guys” (J,E,P,D), to explain all so-called “discrepancies.” Thus, a person is freed from the burden of trying to interpret the Bible as a harmonious whole: consistent with a notion of ultimate inspiration (being “God-breathed”). I find this to be absurd, because it is arbitrary in many ways, and most unfair (in a discussion such as this) to the exegete who accepts the entire Bible as inspired, and Genesis as written by one author originally (Moses).

The liberal is always a “moving target” (like the ducks in a carnival sideshow) whereas the Catholic who accepts the traditional dogma of inspiration is a “huge barn” or “sitting duck.” That destroys constructive exegetical dialogue. In a nutshell, what I would call the “liberal” exegete always has an “out” of simply denying that the text was in the original, or attributing it to one of the other “letter guys” (J,E,P,D), to explain all so-called “discrepancies.”

In exegeting the Genesis passage, I am not trying to start by presuming to know God is a consistent being who cannot contradict himself.

If the Bible is indeed inspired in toto, that would follow as a matter of course, would it not? The question isn’t whether theological and cultural understanding develops. It certainly does (and development of doctrine is my favorite topic in theology and one of my specialties — and indeed what made me a Catholic in large part). Rather, it is a fundamental question about the nature of revelation and inspiration. If one believes in those on other grounds, your premise above in how you approach the text is either irrelevant or meaningless. So we have fundamental disagreements.

Rather, I am saying I am going to approach this text as a piece of literature and try to determine what the human author intended.

That goes only so far. The danger is to reduce Holy Writ to a mere archaeological piece rather than God’s inspired, infallible, and inerrant revelation (all de fide dogmas, too, by the way, and not optional for an orthodox Catholic).

Only after making this determination, will I then move to the issue of what God might be saying to us today through this human author. I believe this approach is justified in Dei Verbum and in the Catechism. In Church teaching, the classical “literal sense” of Scripture is the meaning intended by the human author who wrote in idioms and forms common to his or her culture.

Again, that is true to a large extent, but it is distorted by being applied to the exclusion of the inspired and self-harmonious nature of the document (the Bible).

I gave several examples where the J source behind much of Genesis acts in ways we would consider arbitrary. One minute, Yahweh is telling Abraham to kill Isaac, the next he’s not.

This is a sterling example of the ludicrosity often involved in the adoption (or I should say, application) of the JEPD theory, or something akin to it. What you find “arbitrary” and objectionable is easily explained as a test where God knew all along that He would not actually require Abraham to do the act. That was understood not far from this time period by the Jews, as illustrated in the book of Job. They were not so stupid that they couldn’t figure it out. It is only modern liberal exegesis that reaches heights of (what Malcolm Muggeridge would call) “fathomless imbecility.”

And though Abraham committed murder in his heart, his faith in Yahweh is credited to him as righteousness.

This is absurd also, because if this was murder, then God the Father “murdered” Jesus because it was His will that He be sacrificed to save mankind. Likewise, Jesus committed suicide because He came to earth with the intent all along to be sacrificed.

Circumcision was another example of J’s sense of God giving arbitrary commands. What moral purpose does self mutilation serve?

It is a sign of the covenant, as the Bible says about 50 times. A foreskin is not exactly an essential part of the human body, and there were certain health risks related to it in those days. What is truly self-mutilation is a practice totally consistent with the contraceptive mentality: a vasectomy.

I also pointed to Gen 15 and the way Abraham discerns Yahweh’s will by cutting apart an animal and burning it. This text is written by a group of people who hold a very different theology of God than most Christians hold today.

This is directly related to the Mosaic Law: the same Law which Jesus said was in full effect in some sense, and which He came to fulfill (Matthew 5:17-19). It would also come as a great surprise to the author of Hebrews or to the Gospel writers who refer to the “Lamb of God” (see also the book of Revelation). Where do you think all that comes from? Where you see “very different” I simply see development. I am not approaching the Bible as an anthropologist, but as a Christian, who believes it to be inspired and entirely self-consistent.

Their God is arbitrary, and one acts with virtue not by acting rationally, but by obeying God’s every whim!

Sheer nonsense. What the Hebrews believed is shown in the book of Job and in books like Isaiah: God’s ways are higher than our ways, but He is not arbitrary or capricious: simply above our understanding (as we would expect of such a Being).

Two quick points: First, Pope John Paul II references the Yahwists and Elohists sources several times in Evangelium Vitae in his exegesis of the Cain and Abel story. Whether the theory is perfect or not, the use of this type of Biblical criticism has the papal stamp.

I am not absolutely against (some form of) the theory per se (let alone historical processes in compiling OT books); rather, I am primarily opposed to widespread uses of this theory which are arbitrary (as I explained) and which militate against a theory of unified inspiration (in other words, those which smack of theological liberalism and dissent).

Hermeneutics and belief in biblical inspiration and revelation are two different things. If the Bible as we know it is inspired in its entirety, then contradictions in theology cannot occur. I am presupposing development when I state this (bear in mind). But the whole thing is harmonious. That follows from the nature of the case: if it is “God-breathed,” it cannot be contradictory (at least in the original manuscripts: another discussion again).

You have actually said things like (paraphrasing): “I doubt that God told Abraham to kill Isaac.” That would entail a denial of inspiration and the trustworthiness of the biblical record (even involving New Testament espousal of these events). That leads you far afield from merely the Documentary Hypothesis.

Second, the goal of historical-critical methods is not to “explain away” what is inconvenient. Indeed, the methods often raise tougher questions for us. Rather, the goal of historical critical and literary methods of studying the Bible is truly and honestly trying to discern what the author of a particular passage intended.

I’m not opposed to intent of the author or a legitimate use of the historico-critical method, either (as I have already noted): only abuses of the same and the efforts of people who no longer hold to the high view of Holy Scripture, and who approach the study of the Bible like a butcher approaches a hog.

I have made my individual criticisms of your method. You would be mistaken to generalize those criticisms to all serious modern biblical scholarship. I am opposed to what I feel (as a Catholic) are departures from legitimate, tradition-affirming Bible scholarship, based on various hostile presuppositions brought to the work.

Furthermore, as a Catholic, I believe that there is more than one sense of Scripture (i.e. – the literal, the spiritual, the moral, the allegorical, and the anagogical, as well as the reading within tradition – see par 113-117 of the CCC).

So do I, which is why I possess and am rather fond of, Mark Shea’s book, Making Senses Out of Scripture, and I have noted this different hermeneutic in replying to Protestants.

However, as par 116 indicates, all meanings must be based in some way on the literal sense, which is the sense intended by the author derived through sound exegesis.

That’s right. I noted that in my paper above also.

Thus, I object to interpreting Gen 38 as though the same human author of Dt 25 were writing both passages, because the two pieces of literature have very different literary styles and theologies of God.

This illustrates the problem I have with your method (at least insofar as I am familiar with it, from this dialogue). So what if there are different literary styles!? This proves nothing in and of itself (though I agree that it might suggest a different author — just not necessarily, on these grounds alone).

I have many different styles of writing myself. I do satires, love poems, musical criticism, movie reviews, exegetical writing, analyses of historical theology; more sentimental and pastoral writing, conversion stories (first-person narrative), jeremiads, Christmas poems, socratic dialogues, straight philosophy, sociological writing, social-cultural analysis (such as on abortion or race relations), “literary” writing, psychological-type speculation, free-form poetry, political writing, homiletic / “preachy” stuff, philosophy of science, etc. That’s 21 different “styles” already.

Secondly, it is not at all clear to me that you have established that these two authors (granting there are two for the sake of argument) have different theologies. All I saw you doing was reading your subjective opinion into it (eisegesis), whereas I could easily submit a plausible synthesis, just as reasonable as your assumption that there is a discrepancy here.

I understand your feeling here [concerning arbitrariness of interpretation], which is why I also quoted some maxims of such people as Hank Hanegraaff and Norman Geisler.

I’m very familiar with them. Geisler is my favorite Protestant apologist.

This is the way I would like the Roman Catholic Church to handle such a controverted issue.

Another instance of you reasoning precisely as a Protestant would: you accept evangelical Hanegraaff’s approach to contraception but reject the papal approach of several very prominent encyclicals. Very curious . . .

Geisler is the co-author with Ralph Mackenzie of Catholics and Protestants: Agreements and Differences, which is probably the most balanced work on the subject by conservative Evangelical Protestants.

Yes, I agree. I talked to MacKenzie on the phone once.

I was trying to have a discussion on the exegesis by referencing people who think like you do (and I need to go to Protestants to do it).

But you misunderstood how sweeping my criticisms were. I don’t just think like Protestant Bible scholars. On the other hand, many of them hold to views on the Bible that most Catholics used to hold, and no longer do, because of the liberal decimation of Catholic education. So when they continue to hold infallibility and inerrancy, they are more “Catholic” in that regard than a liberal Catholic who tosses that and accepts any number and manner of ludicrous, anti-traditional notions.

Let me add this, however. I am not personally aware of any Catholic Biblical scholar in the entire world who thinks that the Pentateuch was written by one human author, and I am not aware of any Catholic biblical scholar who does not make use of historical critical methods.

I am not so concerned about one author as I am about biblical unity and inspiration and self-consistency, no matter how many authors are involved. They were all inspired, by definition. So it really doesn’t matter if Moses was the sole author of the Pentateuch. I tend (as a non-scholar) to think that he was at least the primary author. I agree with Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. (whom I knew: he received me into the Church and wrote the Foreword to my first book):

A decision of the Biblical Commission (June 27, 1906) stated that Moses was the principal and inspired author of the Pentateuch and that the books were finally published under his name. But in 1948 the secretary of the pontifical Biblical Commission acknowledged that “today there is no longer anyone who questions the existence of sources used in the composition of the Pentateuch or who does not admit the progressive accretion of Mosaic Laws due to the social and religious conditions of later times.”(Modern Catholic Dictionary, Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1980, “Pentateuch,” 414)

I am not saying that I am sure that there are none. However, I haven’t read or heard or one.

Fr. William G. Most was a decent scholar. I found an article online where he critiques the Documentary Hypothesis. Here is a portion:

1. Concentric circles in Scripture:

*

a) J. Schildenberger, Vom Gehemnis des Gotteswortes,
Heidelberg, 1950, p. 163ff (cited from Le Frois, p. 190): “As a
consequence of the Hebrew’s thinking in totalities, it is easy to see
that in presenting his subject-matter, the Hebrew does not develop it
so much in logical order step by step from general to particular, but
rather from the very outset he has the complete topic concretely in
mind, and not being able to present it all at once, he keeps coming
back to it, letting it be seen from various aspects, now emphasizing
this angel, now that, until in the end the full picture, which we saw
totally but not clearly from the very start, has been imbibed with
full grasp and satisfaction.”

b) John 1:1-18 comes in three waves:

1-5: General statement: the Word was God, in the beginning, madeall things. Had life for men, but darkness did not overcome it.

*

6-13: John witnesses to the true light coming into the world,
who had make the world, but the world did not know or accept
Him.

14-18: The Word became flesh, John bore witness to Him. We
receive fullness through Him who makes the Father known.

. . . COMMENTS ON SPECIFIC CASES OF DOUBLETS

*

1. Genesis 1 and 2. It is claimed:

a) Doublet–the repeat shows two sources.

*

b) Difference of style–transcendent God in Gen 1, but naive
anthropomorphisms in Gen 2.

c) Difference in words for God– Elohim in Gen 1, Yahweh
Elohim in 2.

COMMENTS: a) On Doublets: Concentric rings seem to be a
Biblical pattern. Kitchen shows some plausible, though not
conclusive examples of same in Urartu and Egypt.

*

b) Difference in style: There are also anthropomorphisms in
Gen 1 –God called by same, saw, blessed, made man, who is bodily in
His image.

Further, the argument from style is partly circular — the P
source has arid precise style partly because just such matter was
assigned to P because the matter was such.

Finally: Arguments from style are flimsy –cf.the case of
Tacitus’ Dialogus, and Inscription of Uni (Kitchen AC and OT p.125).

c) Difference in words for God: It is at least probable from
Ebla (see separate sheet) that Yahweh and El are interchangeable. —
Genesis 2 actually uses both most of the time, together, and the fact
that the second concentric ring is fuller could be a reason. –The
LXX does not adhere so closely as does the MT. MT has Yahweh Elohim
in 2,4,5,7 –LXX has only Theos in each case.

Further: Chapter 3 is considered all from J –yet it uses
Elohim alone 3 times (verses 1,3,5).

Chapter 4 is all J –has Elohim alone in 25.
Chapter 5 is all but 29 from P –29 alone has Yahweh.
Chapter 6: 1-8 are J –but include 3 times Elohim alone (verses 2,4,5).
Chapter 7 is a medley, they say –much slicing and re-gluing, even cutting
verse 16 in two since it has Elohim and Yahweh separately in two parts of
the verse.

Chapter 8 includes much of the save slicing and re-gluing
–has E 3 times, and Y 3 times.

Near Eastern usage also shows variations in divine names. In
the Enuma elish in tablet 1 –Tiamat 13 times, Khubur once. In
tablet 2, 15 times T once K, in tablet 3 –9 times T, twice K. In
tablet 1 –5 times Ea, twice Nudimmud. In tablet 2, 4 times Ea, once
N. In tablet 3, N twice, Ea not at all. In tablet 4, N twice, Ea
not at all. In tablet 4 Marduk 4 times, Bel once.

. . . CRITIQUE OF THE DOCUMENTARY THEORY

II. The argument from shifts in divine names

It is claimed that the variation between Elohim and Yahweh is due to
the use of two sources.

COMMENT: See P above (“Comments on Specific Cases of Doublets 1,c).

III. The argument from difference in style between documents

The style of the Yahwist contains unified scenes bound together by a
continuous thread. He prefers the concrete and picturesque and is
good at character portraits. He is a good storyteller, and a
psychologist who is concerned with the secrets of man’s heart. –The
Elohist lacks the lively picturesque manner, has less dramatic vigor,
less warmth of nationalism, is simpler, smoother, even more
disciplined, and perhaps somewhat of an archaizing manner.

Further, the Yahwist goes in for anthropomorphisms, which the Elohist
does not do.

COMMENTS: 1) The reasoning is partly circular –parts were
selected precisely for reason of the style. As we saw above (p.1.c)
the use of Yahweh vs. Elohim is not strictly observed as a criterion.
In fact, there is much disagreement about which verses belong to
which writer –and a lot of scissors and paste reassembling to locate
each document.

2) There are at least some anthropomorphisms in E–

(“Rested” 2.2-3) God saw, He called by name, He made man (who is
bodily) in His own image.

3) Arguments based on style are always inconclusive, and
often flimsy –cr.the case of the Dialogues of Tacitus.

4) Kitchen (AO and OT p.125) asserts style variations are
common in Near East and mentions:

a) Biography of Uni (c 2400 BC Egypt) which has flowing
narrative, summary statements, a victory hymn, two different refrains
repeated at suitable but varying intervals.

b) Royal inscriptions of kings of Urartu –9th to 8th
centuries BC (through at least 4 reigns) which include fixed formula
for the going forth of the god Haldi, a triple formula and variants
for that of the king, compact statements of success, or first person
narrative, at times statistics of forces of Urartu and of prisoners
and booty.

I am defining “Biblical Scholar” as a Catholic with a graduate level degree in the specific field of Sacred Scripture from an accredited Catholic university or seminary. Even the Gregorian in Rome uses the historical critical methods, as does the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and even the more conservative Navarre Bible out of Spain, while being conservative in approach, does use historical critical methods. To my knowledge, the only people who outright reject multiple source theories in scholarly circles are Evangelical Protestants.

Pope Pius XII, in his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), was already responding to liberalism-run-amok in Scripture studies (which, as I have noted, is my primary concern here):

We must specially deplore a certain excessively free way of interpreting the historical books of the Old Testament . . . the first eleven chapters of Genesis, even though they do not fully match the pattern of historical composition used by the great Greek and Latin writers of history, or by modern historians, yet in a certain true sense — which needs further investigation by scholars — do pertain to the genre of history. (DS 3898)

Did Vatican II (1962-1965) in any way countenance the sort of liberal “Bible butchery” that I am decrying? No, of course not:

Since Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted according to the same Spirit by whom it was written, no less attention must be devoted to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture, taking into account the Tradition of the entire Church and the analogy of faith. (Dogmatic Constitution On Divine Revelation, 12; p. 758 in Flannery: 1988 revised edition)

Catholic scholar Eugene Maly, writing in the Jerome Biblical Commentary (1968), stated:

Moses is at the heart of the Pentateuch, and can, in accord with the common acceptance of the ancient period, correctly be called its author. (I, p. 5)

The 1964 Biblical Commission Instruction on Form Criticism warned of the errors that I have been criticizing:

He [the scholar] should act circumspectly because philosophical and theological principles that cannot at all be approved are often found mixed with this method, [principles] which not rarely vitiate both the method and the conclusions on literary matters. For certain practitioners of this method, led astray by prejudiced opinions of rationalism often refuse to admit the existence of the supernatural order, and the intervention of a personal God in the world by revelation properly so-called, and the possibility and actual existence of miracles and prophecies.

Vatican II also upheld the traditional belief that Scripture was without error (Dogmatic Constitution On Divine Revelation, 11), referring to statements of Vatican I, Leo XIII, and Pius XII, all of whom believed that the Bible contained no error at all (not even scientific or historical — see their two famous encyclicals on Holy Scripture).

So is this a “Protestant” or “fundamentalist” approach to Scripture? Hardly: it is thoroughly Catholic. I am as entitled to criticize aspects of the Documentary Theory or any other type of critical method, as you are to utilize them (in accordance with Church instruction).

Fr. William Most wrote elsewhere:

a) Mosaic authorship of Pentateuch: The Biblical Commission said on June 27, 1906 it was permissible to hold “that the work, conceived by [Moses] under divine inspiration, was entrusted to another or to several to be written… and that finally the work done in this way and approved by the same Moses as the leader and inspired author was published.” . . . It is believed by many that the Pentateuch was put together out of four basic documents: Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly Code, and Deuteronomist – hence the name JEPD for the Documentary Theory. But that Documentary theory is not proved.Joseph Blenkinsopp of Notre Dame in his review of R. N. Whybray, The Making of the Pentateuch (Journal For Study of Old Testament Supplement 5. Sheffield, 1987) wrote (CBQ Jan. 1989, pp. 138-39): “It is widely known by now that the documentary hypothesis is in serious trouble, with no viable alternative yet in sight.” He continues saying that Whybray has easily shown the fragility of many of the arguments given for the theory, sometimes requiring an unreasonable level of consistency within the sources, at other times not.

Further, Newsweek of Sept. 28, 1981, p. 59 reported that Yehuda Radday, coordinator of the Technion Institute in Israel, fed the Hebrew text of Genesis into a computer, and concluded: “It is most probable that the book of Genesis was written by one person.”

So we cannot be sure Moses was not the author of the Pentateuch in the ancient sense.

See also Fr. Most’s works, Free From All Error: Authorship, Inerrancy, Historicity of Scripture, Church Teaching, and Modern Scripture Scholars and Basic Scripture (as well as many other wonderful articles and books). For good evangelical critiques of the Documentary Hypothesis, see Gleason Archer: “What Evidence Proves Moses Wrote the First Five Books of the Bible?”; also, Wayne Jackson: “Destructive Criticism and the Old Testament”.

Catholic writer Mark Shea provided (in 2002: link unable to be found) a funny satire on Documentary Theory, using The Lord of the Rings:

Applying JEPD Theory to The Lord of the RingsOne standard staple of biblical criticism for the past century has been the theory that the Old Testament isn’t composed of “books” that somebody “wrote” but is instead a pastische of “sources” that religio political factions “assembled”. If you find yourself thinking “Only an academic–and a German one–could suppose that the foundational literature of Western civilization could be pasted together by a committee and only an academic–and a German one–could suppose that you find out what the text really means by dissolving it in the acid bath of deconstruction to tease out the supposedly original Yahwist (J), Elohist (E), Priestly (P) and Deuteronomic (D) sources”, you’re right. The theory has run into trouble (since nobody seems to agree on which cut n paste fragments belong to which source and nobody knows why the editors who allegedly stuck all these sources together did what they did. But, as with pure naturalistic theories of evolution, your task is to shut up and bow to your superiors, not ask obvious questions.

In the spirit of redaktion criticism, Bruce Baugh now offers some preliminary theories on the variation in sources used by the makers of the Two Towers. I think he’s on to something. Jackson is clearly operating from Rohanian sources for purely political reasons. Truly educated people can see these things right off the bat. It’s obvious to any thinking person that the whole “Tolkien Authorship Myth” must go. The Lord of the Rings was not “written” by a so-called “author” named “Tolkien”. Rather, it is a final redaction of sources ranging from the Red Book of Westmarch, to Elvish Chronicles, to Gondorian records, to tales of Rohirrim which were only transcribed centuries later. The various pressure groups which preserved these stories all had their own agendas. For instance, the Gondorian records clearly seek to elevate the claims of the Aragorn monarchy over the house of Denethor. So the record has been sanitized. Indeed, many scholars now believe the “Faramir being healed by Aragorn” doublet of the “Frodo being helped by Aragorn” is a sanitized version of the murder of Denethor by Aragorn through the administration of poison. “Faramir” never existed and is a corruption of “Boromir”, who died under uncertain circumstances in the wilderness. Since the scenes of Aragorn healing “Frodo” also take place in the wilderness, most scholars conclude that “Frodo” is a mythic echo of Boromir, whose quest for Power is like Aragorn’s quest for the Throne. Perhaps, Boromir was one of Aragorn’s first victims. Of course, the whole “Ring” motif appears in countless folk tales and is to be discounted altogether. The real “War of the Ring” was doubtless some small tribal dispute that was exaggerated by bardic sources, much like the Exodus or the Fall of Troy. Gandalf appears to have been some sort of shamanistic figure, introduced to the Narrative by W (the Westmarch source) out of deference to local Shire cultic practice.

Rohan seems to have been of much help to the establishment of the Aragorn monarchy and so R sources find their way into the final version of the LOTR narrative, but greatly altered so as to give Theoden a subordinate role. Meanwhile, we can only guess at the Sauron and Saruman sources, since they seem to have been destroyed by the victors and give a wholly negative view of these doubtlessly complex, warm, human and many-sided figures. Scholars now know, of course, that the identification of Sauron with “pure evil” is simply wrong. Indeed, many scholars have become quite fond of Sauron and are searching the records with a growing passion and zeal for any lore connected with the making of the One Ring. “It’s all nonsense, of course,” says Dr. Gol M. Smeagol, “There never was such a Ring. Still… I… should… very much like to have a look at it. Just for scholarly purposes of course.”

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(originally 2-12-04)

Photo credit: Moses with the Ten Commandments (1648), by Philippe de Champaigne (1602-1674) [public domain / Wikipedia]

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