2023-03-18T17:02:21-04:00

Well-known atheist Dan Barker raised this issue in his article: “Leave No Stone Unturned: An Easter Challenge For Christians” (originally from March 1990 in Freethought Today). He wrote:

I HAVE AN EASTER challenge for Christians. My challenge is simply this: tell me what happened on Easter. I am not asking for proof. My straightforward request is merely that Christians tell me exactly what happened on the day that their most important doctrine was born. . . .

The conditions of the challenge are simple and reasonable. In each of the four Gospels, begin at Easter morning and read to the end of the book: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21. Also read Acts 1:3-12 and Paul’s tiny version of the story in I Corinthians 15:3-8. These 165 verses can be read in a few moments. Then, without omitting a single detail from these separate accounts, write a simple, chronological narrative of the events between the resurrection and the ascension: what happened first, second, and so on; who said what, when; and where these things happened.

Since the gospels do not always give precise times of day, it is permissible to make educated guesses. The narrative does not have to pretend to present a perfect picture–it only needs to give at least one plausible account of all of the facts. Additional explanation of the narrative may be set apart in parentheses. The important condition to the challenge, however, is that not one single biblical detail be omitted. . . .

But first things first: Christians, either tell me exactly what happened on Easter Sunday, or let’s leave the Jesus myth buried next to Eastre (Ishtar, Astarte), the pagan Goddess of Spring after whom your holiday was named.

Atheist David Austin, writing on atheist Jonathan MS Pearce’s blog, recently addressed this topic: “Answering Dan Barker’s Easter Challenge” (3-15-23). He came up with a 26-point proposed chronology / scenario.

I don’t intend to delve fully into this topic. I’ve addressed alleged “Resurrection narrative contradictions” in great depth in many articles (which I hope to incorporate into a planned book on alleged biblical contradictions). For those treatments, see my web page, Armstrong’s Refutations of Alleged Biblical “Contradictions” and search for “Jesus: Resurrection.” Also, search “DIALOGUES WITH JEWISH APOLOGIST MICHAEL J. ALTER ON JESUS’ RESURRECTION” on my Trinitarianism & Christology web page, for my 29 replies to Alter’s skeptical charges. My present purpose is to simply document several of the many such attempts made by Christians. Here are the ones I’ve found:

Jimmy Akin offered “How the Resurrection Narratives Fit Together” (1-23-17): a 16-point schema, including a lot of written analysis, and final sections on “Gospel Sequencing” and “Proposed Chronology.”

Peter Ballard wrote, “Harmonising the Resurrection Accounts” (2-12-00; last revised on 4-4-05). It has 19 points, with much commentary (much like Akin’s) and additional related pieces, “Answers to specific alleged contradictions” and “Answers to objections posed by readers of this page.”

Professor of Biblical Exegesis at Fuller Theological Seminary, George Eldon Ladd,  devised a 17-point scenario in his book, I Believe in the Resurrection (Eerdmans, 1975), pp. 91-93. Later, he discovered a nearly identical effort from Michael C. Perry, in his book, The Easter Enigma (London: Faber and Faber, 1959), pp. 65, 70. Note that these are 15 and 31 years prior to Barker’s challenge.

J. Gene White proposed “The Resurrection of Jesus Christ: A Twenty-Two Point Harmony of the Four Gospels” (c. 2010).

Anglican biblical and Greek scholar John Wenham offered what Christian apologist Gary Habermas believed was the best such harmonization in his book, Easter Enigma (Eugene, Oregon: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 1992). It was expanded a bit and summarized in 38 points, in the paper, “Harmonizing the Gospel Accounts of the Resurrection.”

In 1847, Harvard Law professor and attorney Simon Greenleaf published An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the rules of evidence administered in courts of justice, with a later edition in 1874, The Testimony of the Evangelists examined by the rules of evidence administered in courts of justice, available in its entirety online. This 1874 edition featured a section called “Harmony of the Gospels,” including “Part IX: Our Lord’s Resurrection, His Subsequent Appearances and His Ascension.  Time: Forty Days,” from pages 483-503: a spectacularly detailed schema, adapted by W.R. Miller in the article, “Greenleaf’s Harmony of the Resurrection Accounts.”

The Compelling Truth website offers the 17-point piece, “Do the gospel resurrection accounts contradict each other?”

Ian Paul proposed a 23-point scenario, “based on the work of Gary Habermas and Michael Licona” in his paper, “Are there contradictions in the resurrection accounts?” (4-25-19).

Gary F. Zeolla presented 1 22-point scenario in “Easter Harmony” (1999).

Murray J. Harris gives us a 21-point schema, in his “Suggested Harmonization of the Resurrection Narratives” (1994).

For more, see the Reconciling Scripture web page.

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Photo credit: geralt (1-23-21) [Pixabay / Pixabay License]
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Summary: Dan Barker’s Easter Challenge is a “dare” for Christians to try to harmonize the burial and Resurrection accounts in all four Gospels. I highlight eleven such attempts.
2023-03-16T19:40:26-04:00

. . . In Which Dr. Salmon Sadly Reveals Himself to be a Hyper-Rationalistic Pelagian Heretic, and Engages in Yet More Misrepresentation of Development of Doctrine and Cardinal Newman’s Statements and Positions

The book, The Infallibility of the Church (1888) by Anglican anti-Catholic polemicist George Salmon (1819-1904), may be one of the most extensive and detailed — as well as influential — critiques of the Catholic Church ever written. But, as usual with these sorts of works, it’s abominably argued and relentlessly ignorant and/or dishonest, as the critique below will amply demonstrate and document.
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The most influential and effective anti-Catholic Protestant polemicist today, “Dr” [???] James White, cites Salmon several times in his written materials, and regards his magnum opus as an “excellent” work. In a letter dated 2 November 1959, C. S. Lewis recommended the book to an inquirer who was “vexed” about papal infallibility. Russell P. Spittler, professor of New Testament at Fuller Theological Seminary, wrote that “From an evangelical standpoint,” the book “has been standard since first published in 1888” (Cults and Isms, Baker Book House, 1973, 117). Well-known Baptist apologist Edward James Carnell called it the “best answer to Roman Catholicism” in a 1959 book. I think we can safely say that it is widely admired among theological (as well as “emotional”) opponents of the Catholic Church.
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Prominent Protestant apologist Norman Geisler and his co-author Ralph MacKenzie triumphantly but falsely claim, in a major critique of Catholicism, Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 1995, 206-207, 459), that Salmon’s book has “never really been answered by the Catholic Church,” and call it the “classic refutation of papal infallibility,” which also offers “a penetrating critique of Newman’s theory.”
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Salmon’s tome, however, has been roundly refuted at least twice: first, by Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Murphy in The Irish Ecclesiastical Record (March / May / July / September / November 1901 and January / March 1902): a response (see the original sources) — which I’ve now transcribed almost in its totality — which was more than 73,000 words, or approximately 257 pages; secondly, by Bishop Basil Christopher Butler (1902-1986) in his book, The Church and Infallibility: A Reply to the Abridged ‘Salmon’ (1954, 230 pages). See all of these replies — and further ones that I make — listed under “George Salmon” on my Anti-Catholicism web page. But no Protestant can say that no Catholic has adequately addressed (and refuted) the egregious and ubiquitous errors in this pathetic book. And we’ll once again see how few (if any) Protestants dare to counter-reply to all these critiques.
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See other installments of this series:
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Irish Ecclesiastical Record vs. Anti-Catholic George Salmon, Pt. 1 [3-10-23]

Irish Ecclesiastical Record vs. Anti-Catholic George Salmon, Pt. 2 . . . In Which Dr. Salmon Accuses Cardinal Newman of Lying Through His Teeth in His Essay on Development, & Dr. Murphy Magnificently Defends Infallibility and Doctrinal Development Against Gross Caricature [3-12-23]

Irish Ecclesiastical Record vs. Anti-Catholic George Salmon, Pt. 3 . . . In Which Our Sophist-Critic Massively Misrepresents Cardinal Newman and Utterly Misunderstands the Distinction Between Implicit and Explicit Faith [3-12-23]

Irish Ecclesiastical Record vs. Anti-Catholic George Salmon, Pt. 5: Private Judgment, the Rule of Faith, and Dr. Salmon’s Weak Fallible Protestant “Church”: Subject to the Whims of Individuals; Church Fathers Misquoted [3-15-23]

Irish Ecclesiastical Record vs. Anti-Catholic George Salmon, Pt. 6: The Innumerable Perils of Perspicuity of Scripture and Private Judgment [3-16-23]

Irish Ecclesiastical Record vs. Anti-Catholic George Salmon, Pt. 7 [3-16-23]

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Vol. X: September 1901
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Dr. Salmon’s ‘Infallibility’ (Part 4)
Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Murphy, D.D.
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[I have made a few paragraph breaks not found in the original. Citations in smaller font are instead indented, and all of Dr. Salmon’s words will be in blue. St. John Henry Cardinal Newman’s words will be in green]
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There is no denying that Dr. Salmon has shown very considerable cleverness in his attack on the Catholic Church. But it is cleverness very sadly misapplied. And as he is very far from being the most formidable of her assailants, he cannot expect to succeed where even the gates of hell are foredoomed to fail. His charge against the Church of new doctrines and new articles of faith, of change in doctrine, is, to the unthinking, or to those who have been taught to think wrongly, the most grave that could be made. And it is also one of the most groundless, and can be made only by one who does not know, or who knowingly misrepresents the office and character of the Church. With the Catholic Church, the true Church of Christ, new doctrines are a simple impossibility. She received from her Divine Founder the entire, full, complete deposit of faith. She has held it full and complete from the beginning; and she shall hold it unimpaired till the end of time.
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As St. Vincent of Lerins says: ‘She loses nothing that is hers; she adopts nothing that is not hers.’ What Dr. Salmon calls a ‘new doctrine’ is simply a statement of some truth that has been in her keeping from the beginning; and in taking that statement from the deposit of faith, and in teaching it to her children, the Church is protected from error by the Holy Ghost the Spirit of Truth, ‘Going therefore teach all nations . . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.’ ‘The Paraclete, the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind whatsoever I shall have said to you.’ Here, then, is the Church’s warrant to teach. Her premises are God’s own revelation, infallibly true, fixed and definite from the first; and in her process of interpreting it, the Holy Ghost is her guide, and owing to His guidance she cannot betray her trust: she can neither mistake the extent of her commission, nor the meaning of any portion of it. And when therefore, under such guidance, she declares, that a certain doctrine is contained in the deposit of faith, is part of it, her declaration must be true, and therefore the doctrine is not new, but as old as the Christian Revelation.

This follows directly and immediately from the Infallibility of the Church; and the Catholic who accepts that doctrine, accepts all this as a matter of course. He knows that in believing what the Church teaches, he is believing what our Lord revealed to His Apostles, and what they committed to the Church from which he now accepts it. And he not only accepts the actual teaching of the Church, but he is prepared, and for the very same reason that he accepts what she now teaches, to accept also whatever she may in the future make known to him. Any increase of religious knowledge imparted to him by the Church is welcome to the Catholic, its truth and its antiquity are to him a foregone conclusion. He knows that it is part of that body of truth which he had already accepted unreservedly, and in its entirety — that it is a fuller meaning of some truth which he had already believed — that it now comes to him on the same authority on which all his faith rests; and by reason of that additional light and knowledge he accepts now explicitly what he had hitherto implicitly believed.

This is no more than saying that a Catholic is a Catholic, that he really believes what he professes to believe; and for such a person new doctrines in the sense imputed by Dr. Salmon are impossible. By new doctrines Dr. Salmon means doctrines that were not revealed at all — false doctrines — and he gives as instances the Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility. But Catholics know that the Church defines nothing that was not in her keeping from the beginning — nothing new — and the very fact of their definition is to the Catholic a proof that these doctrines formed a part of the original revelation; and later on Dr. Salmon shall be supplied with evidence of the unmistakable traces of these doctrines in Catholic
tradition.

The mental attitude of Catholics Dr. Salmon does not realise at all, and hence it is that he makes such silly charges against us. He never loses an opportunity of saying hard things of the Oxford converts for their unpardonable sin of abandoning Protestantism in order to save their souls. He says of them : —

Perhaps those who then submitted to the Church of Rome scarcely realised all that was meant in their profession of faith in their new guide. They may have thought it meant no more than belief that everything the Church of Rome then taught was infallibly true. Events soon taught them that it meant besides that they must believe everything that that Church might afterwards teach, and her subsequent teaching put so great a strain on the faith of the new converts that in a few cases it was more than it could bear. (Page 19.)

And later on (page 62) he gives Mr. Capes as an instance of one who found the strain too great, though, according to Dr. Salmon’s own version of the case, Mr. Capes left the Catholic Church because he refused to accept a doctrine which the Church taught at the very time he joined her. Now, if any of the converts alluded to came into the Church in the state of mind described by Dr. Salmon, they really were not Catholics at all. They had not accepted that which is the foundation of the whole Catholic system — the authority of the teaching Church, which involves belief in anything the Church may teach in the future as well as acceptance of what she actually teaches. And converts coming into the Church are well aware of this, for it is fully explained to them. The Catholic Church does not blindfold those who come to join her, notwithstanding Dr. Salmon’s confident hypothesis. It is not to make up numbers that she receives converts. They must be instructed before they are received, and no priest could, without sin, knowingly receive into the Church one so ill-instructed as Dr. Salmon supposes some of the converts to have been.

Dr. Salmon says of Mr. Mallock that ‘he criticised other people’s beliefs and disbeliefs so freely, that it was hard to know what he believed or did not believe himself’ (page 60). These words are strictly applicable to Dr. Salmon himself. With the exception of a few vague references to what  ‘a prayer-full man,’ may find in the Bible, he gives no clue to his own creed. He boasts of ‘the strength of his conviction of the baselessness of the case made by the Romish advocates’ (page 14); he is quite sure that all distinctive Catholic doctrines form ‘no part of primitive Christianity.’ But this is all negative, and all through his Lectures his teaching is of the same sort. Thus he tells us what he does not believe; but as to what he does believe, we are left totally in the dark. But such is his idea of faith, that it really does not matter much, whether the articles of his creed be few or many, for his faith is purely human. It is not the argument of things unseen; not the testimony ‘greater than that of man;’ not an assent in nothing wavering; not therefore the root and foundation of justification, but a merely human faith, probable, hesitating, doubtful, with no higher certainty than mere unaided human reason can give it. Dr. Salmon believes in the truths of Christianity (if he believes them at all) on exactly the same grounds, and with exactly the same certainty, as he believes in the career of Julius Caesar. Tacitus and Suetonius give him the same certainty as St. Matthew and St. Luke. His own words are: —

That Jesus Christ lived more than eighteen centuries ago; that He died, rose again, and taught such and such doctrines, are things proved by the same kind of argument as that by which we know that Augustus was Emperor of Rome, and that there is such a country as China. Whether or not He founded a Church; whether He bestowed the gift of infallibility on it, and whether He fixed the seat of that infallibility at Rome, are things to be proved, if proved at all, by arguments which a logician would class as probable. (Page 63.) . . . We are certain, for instance, that there was such a man as Julius Caesar. We may call ourselves certain about the principal events of his life; but when you go into details, and inquire, for instance, what knowledge he had of Cataline’s conspiracy, you soon come to questions, to which you can only give probable, or doubtful answers, and it is just the same as to the facts of Christianity. (Page 74.)

And for all this he had prepared his bearers by telling them (page 48) that ‘it must be remembered that our belief must in the end rest on an act of our own judgment, and can never attain any higher certainty than whatever that may be able to give us ’ (page 48). These sentiments are again and again repeated in Dr. Salmon’s Lectures; and in them we have the key to the nature and value of his faith, as well as to the character of his declamation against the Catholic Church. He devotes a great part of his Third Lecture to the right of private judgment, or rather he insists on the necessity of private judgment (page 48). And here again he transcribes almost word for word, and without acknowledgment, Whately’s Cautions for the Times. All through the lecture be is confounding private judgment with the legitimate exercise of reason, and he so represents Catholics as if they condemned all exercise of reason with reference to the truths of faith.

Now, Dr. Salmon must be well aware that private judgment has a well-recognised meaning in theological controversy. It means the opinion of the individual as opposed to external authority; it means the right of the individual to determine for himself, and quite independently of all external control, what he is to believe or not to believe. But private judgment is not a synonym for reason, and in condemning it in its controversial sense, Catholics do not interfere in the slightest degree with the legitimate use of reason. Let us use our reason by all means. St. Paul reminds us of that duty. But in establishing His Church, and commissioning her to teach the nations, our Lord Himself condemned private judgment in its controversial sense, and the Catholic Church only repeats that condemnation. We must use our reason. A fool cannot make an act of faith. And this is really all that Dr. Salmon’s declamation comes to.

But in his zeal to make a case against us the Doctor shows that he has himself no divine supernatural faith at all. ‘Our belief,’ he says, must in the end rest on an act of our own judgment, and can never attain any higher certainty than whatever that may be able to give us’ (page 48). This statement is completely subversive of faith; it is an enunciation of rationalism, pure and simple.  If Dr. Salmon’s belief is to rest ultimately on his own judgment, then his faith is human, and Huxley, whose judgment was at least as reliable as Dr. Salmon’s, had as good grounds for rejecting the Bible as Dr. Salmon has for accepting it. It is well that he has stated so clearly the fundamental principle of Protestantism — a principle which robs faith of its supernatural character, and which has given to Protestant countries as many creeds as there are individuals. If each one’s faith is to rest ultimately on each one’s judgment, we are not to be surprised at the harmony and unity that are a note of what Dr. Salmon calls his Church. Pope’s lines are strictly true of it: —

‘Tis with our judgments, as our watches, none Go just alike, yet each believes his own.

It must be presumed that Dr. Salmon is contemplating that faith without which ‘it is impossible to please God’ — supernatural, divine faith — but he is completely astray as to its motive and nature. Supernatural divine faith does not rest ultimately ‘on an act of our own judgment,’ but on the authority of God revealing the truth we are to believe. We believe the Trinity, the Incarnation, Redemption, not because ‘an act of our own judgment’ shows them to be true, but because God has revealed them. Dr. Salmon confounds the motive of faith with the motives of credibility. For an act of faith we require a revelation and evidence of the fact of revelation. The motives of credibility are those reasons which satisfy us that the revelation is from God — that God has spoken. They are those which establish the divine origin of the Christian faith generally — miracles, prophecies, the wonderful propagation and preservation of the faith, its salutary effect on mankind, etc. All these supply us with a wide and legitimate field for the exercise of our reason, and within that field Catholics do exercise their reason, and according to their circumstances they are bound to do so.

These motives of credibility lead us to believe that a revelation has been made; they are a preliminary to faith, but they are not the motive of faith, or any part of that motive. They do not enter into the act of faith at all. Because of them we believe in the existence of the revelation, but the revelation itself we believe on the authority of God Whose word it is. And belief resting on any motive inferior to this would not be divine faith at all, and could not be the means of saving our souls. Dr. Salmon tells his students that faith is the outcome of their own judgment (and it is to be hoped that they are all profound thinkers), but St. Paul tells them: ‘By grace you are saved, through faith, and this not of ourselves, for it is the gift of God.’ [Eph 2:8] And the same saint said to the Thessalonians: ‘When you had received of us, the word of the hearing of God, you received it not as the word of men, but (as it is indeed) the word of God, Who worketh in you that have believed.’ [1 Thess 2:13] According to St. Paul there is in faith something which we do not owe to our own talents or judgments, but which is God’s gift directly. And in strict accordance with this doctrine of St. Paul, is the teaching of the Vatican Council. It says: —

But that faith which is the beginning of man’s salvation, the Catholic Church professes to be a supernatural virtue, whereby enlightened, and aided by God’s grace, we believe those things which He has revealed to be true, not because of the intrinsic truth of them, known from the natural light of reason, but because of the authority of God revealing them.

And the Council pronounces an anathema against those who hold, as Dr. Salmon does, that for divine faith it is not necessary that the revelation should be believed on the authority of God revealing. With this supernatural divine faith illuminating and elevating the soul, what a sad contrast is presented by Dr. Salmon’s bald rationalism — ‘the act of his own judgment.’ And the saddest feature of the contrast is the spiritual blight and ruin which Dr. Salmon’s theory involves. Supernatural faith is necessary for salvation, and the Doctor’s faith is not supernatural. It is purely human, and can have no more influence in saving souls than the latest theory on electricity. And as Dr. Salmon’s faith is purely human, he is quite logical (though quite wrong), in saying that it can attain to no higher certainty than reason cam give it; and that his belief in our Lord’s life and teaching comes to him in the same way as his belief in the career of Augustus Caesar — that it is merely a hesitating, doubting, absent, at best only a probability.

The Doctor professes a profound knowledge of, and an intimate acquaintance with, Scripture; and yet nothing can be more clear and explicit than the Scriptural condemnation of his theory of faith. In texts almost innumerable faith is spoken of, not as the doubting, hesitating, probable opinion that he describes it, but as an assent to God’s word full, firm, and unhesitating. ‘If you shall have faith, and doubt not,’ said our Lord to His disciples, [Mt 21:21] where He clearly describes doubt as incompatible with faith. ‘Therefore, let all the house of Israel know most certainly that God hath made both Lord and Christ, this same Jesus whom you have crucified.’ [Acts 2:36] ‘For I am certain that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come . . . shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.’ [Rom 8:38-39] ‘For I know whom I have believed, and I am certain that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.’ [2 Tim 1:12] ‘Ask in faith, nothing wavering,’ says St. James [Jas 1:6].

Nothing can be clearer then, than that faith , according to Scripture, is a firm, unhesitating, unwavering, assent to God’s word. Those who hesitate are described as having ‘little faith’ or no faith. Faith and doubt are regarded as incompatible. And this is precisely the teaching of the Catholic Church. The Vatican Council, in the 3rd chapter De Fide, tells us that we are bound to give to God’s revelation ‘the full obedience of our intellects and of our wills.’ And it further asserts that ‘our faith rests on the most firm of all foundations ’ — the authority of God brought home to us by His Church. When, therefore, Dr. Salmon told his students that ‘our belief must in the end rest on an act of our own judgment,’ and can have no higher authority, he is con tradicting the express language of Scripture as well as the express teaching of the Catholic Church; and he is leading his students astray on the most vitally important of all subjects — the nature of saving faith. It is clear that he has no real conception of any supernatural element in faith; and hence it is that he seeks to ridicule the idea that there is any such, or that Catholics can have any certainty in matters of faith above what unaided reason can give.

I mean [he says] to say something about the theory of the supernatural gift of faith as laid down at the Vatican Council, merely remarking now that the theory of a supernatural endowment superseding in matters of religion the ordinary laws of reasoning, an endowment to question which involves deadly peril, deters Roman Catholics from all straightforward seeking for truth. (Pages 62, 63.)

And what he has to say is this: — ‘They are not naturally infallible, but God has made them so. It is by a supernatural gift of faith that they accept the Church’s teaching, and have a divinely inspired certainty that they are in the right’ (page 81). And he quotes the Vatican Council in proof of his statement, though there is nothing whatever in the Council that would give him the slightest countenance. We do not claim any gift, supernatural or otherwise, ‘superseding in matters of religion the ordinary laws of reasoning.’ These laws we respect and adhere to with far more consistency and persistency than Dr. Salmon shows in his own conduct. If misquotation and misrepresentation be in accordance with ‘the ordinary laws of reasoning,’ then Dr. Salmon is a profound logician! We do not claim to be infallible, either naturally, or supernaturally; we do not claim ‘a divinely inspired certainty that we are in the right,’ and the Vatican Council give no grounds whatever for those ridiculous statements. We have in the Church an infallible guide, and as long as we follow her guidance we are certain of the truth of our faith. But we are not infallible, for through our own fault we may cease to follow the Church’s guidance, and thus may fall away, and lose the faith. As long as we are loyal children of the Church we are certain of the truth of our faith, but that certainty does not come to us by inspiration.

We do not then make the claims attributed to us by Dr. Salmon. But we do claim with the Vatican Council, and hold as of faith, that we cannot make a salutary act of faith without actual grace enlightening our intellects to see the truth and inclining our wills to embrace it. And this claim of ours is not new, as Dr. Salmon ought to know. Our Lord Himself says: — ‘No man can come to Me, except the Father, who hath sent Me, draw him.’ [Jn 6:44] ‘By grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is a gift of God.’ [Eph 2:8] Actual grace is necessary for all those acts that prepare us for justification, and especially necessary for the more arduous and difficult acts which are opposed to our own passions and prejudices, and Dr. Salmon must be very oblivious of early Church history if he venture to doubt this. To say nothing of other fathers the writings of St. Augustine against Semi-Pelagianism would supply him with abundant proofs of the necessity of illuminating and helping grace, and would show him also that only heretics questioned that necessity. The Second Council of Orange (A.D. 529) in its seventh canon says: —

If anyone asserts that by our natural powers we shall determine or embrace any good thing that pertains to eternal life, or that we shall assent, as we ought, to the salutary preaching of the Gospel without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Ghost, who gives to all sweetness in assenting and in believing the truth, that person is deceived by the heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God saying in the Gospel ‘without Me you can do nothing’ (John xv. 5), or that of the Apostle, ‘not that wo are able to think anything of ourselves, as from ourselves, but all our sufficiency is from God’ (2 Cor. iii. 5).

The sentiment reprobated in such forcible language in this canon is exactly Dr. Salmon’s, and it did not occur to him when he ridiculed the statement of the Vatican Council as false and new, that that statement was taken word for word from the canon of the Council of Orange just mentioned. If the Doctor had given some time and thought to the study of the important and difficult subject on which he lectured so glibly, he would not have made such an exhibition of his levity and of his ignorance by ridiculing as false and new a doctrine which our Blessed Lord Himself revealed most explicitly, and which His Church has held and taught ever since her foundation. Cardinal Newman, so frequently misquoted by Dr. Salmon, puts this matter, with his wonted force and clearness, as follows: —

Faith is the gift of God, and not a mere act of our own, which we are free to exert when we will. It is quite distinct from an exercise of reason though it follows upon it. I may feel the force of the argument for the Divine origin of the Church I may see that I ought to believe, and yet I may be unable to believe. . . Faith is not a mere conviction in reason; it is a firm assent; it is a clear certainty, greater than any other certainty, and this is wrought in the mind by the grace of God, and by it alone. As then men may be convinced, and not act according to their conviction, so they may be convinced, and not believe according to their conviction. . . . In a word, the arguments for religion do not compel anyone to believe, just as arguments for good conduct do not compel anyone to obey. Obedience is the consequence of willing to obey, and faith is the consequence of willing to believe. We may see what is right, whether in matters of faith or obedience, of ourselves, but we cannot will what is right without the grace of God. [Discourses to Mixed Congregations, Dis. XI. pp.  260, 261. Ed. 1862]

Instead of reading such extracts for his students, Dr. Salmon falls back on ‘an act of his own judgment,’ and with very unsatisfactory results. After his dissertation on private judgment he proceeds as follows, feeling apparently that the Catholic Church must go down before his assault:—

We have the choice whether we shall exercise our private judgment in one act or in a great many; but exercise it in one way or another we must. We may apply our private judgment separately to the different questions in controversy — purgatory, transubstantiation, invocation of saints, and so forth — and come to our own conclusions on each, or we may apply our private judgment to the question whether the Church of Rome is infallible, etc. (Page 48.) . . . It is certain enough that what God revealed is true; but, if it is not certain that He has revealed the infallibility of the Roman Church, then we cannot have certain assurance of the truth of that doctrine, or of anything that is founded on it. (Pages 63, 64.)

Here again the Doctor is illogical and misleading. He will have to determine whether the Church of Christ is infallible and indefectible also; and since this is certain and has been proved, he will then have to exercise his judgment in determining which of the existing bodies is that Church of Christ. It must, at all events, profess the doctrine of infallibility, for that doctrine is revealed and true; but since only one of the competitors holds that doctrine, it follows that, if the Church of Christ be existing on earth at all, it must be that one which Dr. Salmon calls the Church of Rome. This is the logical way for Dr. Salmon to use his reason, and it will lead to conclusions very different from those of his lectures. It is a wide field, and a legitimate one, for the exercise of his judgment. But to apply it ‘separately to purgatory, transubstantiation, and the invocation of saints’ is to abuse it. Only the Church can speak with authority on such questions.

These are doctrines that cannot be proved as it is proved that Augustus was Emperor of Rome or that there is such a country as China and faith founded on such arguments will avail very little for Dr. Salmon in the day of his need. It was not faith founded on such arguments that gave St. Paul the certainty of which he speaks in his Epistle to the Romans [8:38]; it was not such faith that enabled St. Stephen to ‘see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God’ [Acts 7:55]; it was not such faith that sustained St. Laurence on the gridiron, or that ever enabled anyone to ‘take up his cross and follow’ our Divine Lord. Such faith as Dr. Salmon contemplates can bring no real consolation in this life, and can inspire no hope for the life to come. Resting on an act of his own judgment, like his belief in the exploits of Caesar or Napoleon Buonaparte, it does not go outside the sphere of mere reason; and hence it is that he seems to know nothing of the elevating, assuring, sustaining character of divine faith, and nothing of the effect of grace on the soul.

Grace and the supernatural are to Dr. Salmon unintelligible terms. He cannot enter into the views of Catholics regarding them; he cannot understand the certainty, the peace of soul, the ‘sweetness in believing,’ which the gift of faith brings to Catholics. All this he caricatures, though he cannot comprehend it. By pandering to the prejudices of young men not overburthened with knowledge, he may secure an audience in his class-room and the character of champion of Protestantism, but he should not forget that these young men have souls to save, and that it is only divine faith can save them. His references to ‘the prayerful man’ and to the Bible as a safeguard against Romanism are vague platitudes. The private judgment which he extols used to be the Protestant substitute for Pope and Church; but 1 modern criticism’ has killed it, and all Dr. Salmon’s art cannot bring it back to life. For the advocates of the Bible, interpreted by private judgment, the vital question now is: How much of the Bible is left for private judgment to interpret? And if Dr. Salmon had given his attention to this question, his time would have been more usefully as well as more charitably spent than it is in bearing false witness against us.

Dr. Salmon was able to give his students the welcome assurance that Catholics were so shattered by the logic of controversialists of his own class and calibre that new methods of defence had been recently resorted to, but, of course, with no prospect of success. The new defences are Newman’s Theory of Development, and the theory contained in his Grammar of Assent. These were, he told them, specially designed to meet the exigencies of controversy, but have failed to do so. In his First Lecture Dr. Salmon warned his students not to identify the statements of particular divines with the official teaching of the Catholic Church, and yet he is doing just that himself all through his Lectures. The works named are represented by him as if they were the very foundation of the Catholic system, essential to its existence. That he should have introduced them into his argument at all, shows how confidently he relied on the intellectual character of his audience. For surely Cardinal Newman is not the Catholic Church, and the Church has not adopted the works named, nor given any official sanction to either of them; and therefore she is in no sense whatever responsible for them, and whether the theories and arguments of the works named be sound or unsound, the Church is in no way concerned.

The Grammar of Assent is, as the very name implies, an attempt to explain the mental process by which men arrive at their beliefs. The greater part of the book has just as much interest for Protestants as for Catholics. Only one section of the fifth chapter has any special interest for Catholics, and even that section is merely explanatory, showing how the philosophical principles laid down in the previous chapter may be applied to dogmatic truths. The late Cardinal Cullen said of the Grammar of Assent that it was ‘a hard nut to crack,’ and Dr. Salmon does not seem to have seriously attempted the operation. And after all his declamation he is forced to admit that Catholics are in no sense concerned with the book. He says: —

When Newman’s book first came out one could constantly see traces of its influences in Roman Catholic articles in magazines and reviews. Now it seems to have dropped very much out of sight, and the highest Roman Catholic authorities lay quite a different basis for their faith. (Page 78.)

The basis of Catholic faith has been laid down not by ‘Roman Catholic authorities’ but by our Blessed Lord Himself, and considered, as an attempt to use the Grammar of Assent, as a weapon against that faith, the net result of Dr. Salmon’s long lecture is — nothing . Let us see how he succeeds with the Essay on Development.

It is, he says, a theory devised to cover our retreat before the overwhelming force of Protestant logic. ‘The Romish champions, beaten out of the open field, have shut themselves up in the fortress of infallibility’ (page 46). But while retreating ‘the first strategic movement towards the rear was the doctrine of development, which has seriously modified the old theory of tradition’ (page 31). It must be owing to his propensity to misrepresent that he substitutes the absurd expression ‘doctrine of development’ for Newman’s own words ‘development of doctrine’; but he distinctly states that it was an invention to meet a difficulty.  ‘The starting of this theory,’ he says, ‘exhibits plainly the total rout which the champions of the Romish Church experienced in the battle they attempted to fight on the field of history . . .  it is, in short, an attempt to enable men beaten off the platform of history to hang on to it by the eyelids.’ Though this extract would lead one to infer that the theory was not previously heard of he says, lower down, that the theory was not new, for it was maintained by Mochler and Perrone, and even a century earlier than their time.

But Newman’s book had the effect of making it popular to an extent it had never been before, and of causing its general adoption by Romish advocates, who are now content to exchange tradition, which their predecessors had made the basis of their system, for this new foundation of development. (Page 31.) . . . When Newman’s book appeared I looked with much curiosity to see whether the heads of the Church to which he was joining himself would accept the defence made by their new convert, the book having been written before he had joined them . . .  it seemed a complete abandonment of the old traditional theory of the advocates of Rome. (Page 33.)

Later on he says: ‘This theory of development, so fashionable thirty years ago, has now dropped into the background’ (page 41). And later on still, in his Seventh Lecture, he says the theory ‘has now become fashionable’ (page 113). What are we to think of this extraordinary theory, or the data given by Dr. Salmon? It is a new theory, and an old one, accepted by us and discarded; vital to us, and useless to us, and all, at the same time, according to this inimitable logician! Leaving to his juvenile controversialists the task of assimilating this mass of contradictions, it is quite sufficient to remind the Regius Professor that the Catholic Church is in no sense whatever responsible for the Essay on Development. It was written, as Dr. Salmon himself states, before its author became a Catholic; and if the Doctor had looked at the preface of the Essay he would have seen the following: ‘His (the author’s) first act on his conversion was to offer his work for revision to the proper authorities; but the offer was declined, on the ground that it was written and partly printed before he was a Catholic’ (Pref. p. x).

This shows how little the Catholic Church is concerned with the theory or with the arguments of the Essay; and how grossly unfair, even to his own students, is the mass of misrepresentation piled up by Dr. Salmon, on the false assumption that the Church is concerned with it. The development of Christian doctrine is as old as Christianity itself. St. Peter’s first sermon on the first Pentecost is an instance of it, and so too are the proofs and explanations of doctrine to be found in the New Testament, and in the early councils and early fathers[.] St. Vincent of Lerins propounded it as a formal theory. So far from supplanting tradition and the fathers, as Dr. Salmon says it does, it is an explanation of both; and if there be anything peculiar in Newman’s theory, he is himself responsible as his own words testify. If Dr. Salmon had given as much of his time and talent to the earnest search for truth, as he devoted to the propagation of calumnies on the Catholic Church, it would have been all the better for himself, and for his students also.

Before passing from the subject of Development, it may be well to consider the value of any interesting discovery which Dr. Salmon has made in the history of the theory. He says: ‘But more than a century before Dr. Newman’s time the theory of Development had played its part in the Roman Catholic controversy, only then it was the Protestant combatant who brought that theory forward, and the Roman Catholic who repudiated it’ (page 35). The allusion is to the controversy between Bossuet and the Calvinist Jurieu, and Dr. Salmon goes on to say : —

The theses of his [Bossuet’s] book called the History of the Variations of the Protestant Churches, was that the doctrine of the true Church is always the same, whereas Protestants are at variance with each other, and with themselves. Bousset [sic] was replied to by a Calvinist minister named Jurieu. The line Jurieu took was to dispute the assertion that the doctrine of the true is always the same. He maintained the doctrine of development in its full extent, asserting that the truth of God was only known by instalments (par parcelles), that the theology of the fathers was imperfect and fluctuating, and that Christian theology has been constantly going on towards perfection. He illustrated his theory by examples of important doctrines, concerning which he alleged the teaching of the early Church to have been defective or uncertain, of which it is enough here to quote that he declared that the mystery of the Trinity, though of the last importance, and essential to Christianity, remained as every one knows undeveloped (informe) down to the first Council of Nice [Nicaea], and even down to that of Constantinople. (Pages 35, 36.)

And Dr. Salmon adds that even ‘the Jesuit Petavius had . . . made very similar assertions concerning the immaturity of the teaching of the early fathers’ (page 86). And his conclusion is this: ‘It seems then a very serious matter if the leading authorities of the Roman Church have now to own that in the main point at issue between Bossuet and Jurieu, the Calvinist minister was in the right, and their own champion in the wrong’ (page 37). According to Dr. Salmon then Bossuet repudiated the development of doctrine in the sense in which Catholics now admit it, while Jurieu maintained in precisely the same sense as we now hold it; and moreover the learned Jesuit Petavius agreed with Jurieu.

Neither of these statements has the slightest foundation in fact. Dr. Salmon says he has taken from Bossuet’s Premier Avertissement aux Protestans. They are not taken from the Premier Avertissement for they are not contained in it; on the contrary it supplies conclusive evidence to contradict each of these statements. Bossuet addressing Protestants in the third section of the Avertissement says: ‘What your minister regards as intolerable is, that I should dare to state that the faith does not change in the true Church, and that the truth coming from God was perfect from the first.’ Now Bossuet immediately explains what he means by this statement, for he immediately quotes St. Vincent of Lerins in confirmation of it: —

The Church of Christ, the faithful guardian of the truths committed to her care, never changes anything in them; she takes nothing away; she adds nothing; she rejects nothing necessary; she takes up nothing superfluous. Her whole care is to explain those truths that were originally committed to her, to confirm those that have been sufficiently explained, to guard those that have been defined and confirmed, and to transmit to posterity in writings those things that she received from the fathers by tradition. (Sec. 4 )

And having thus defined his own teaching Bossuet lays down, in Sec. 5, that his proposition which the minister thought so strange is exactly that of St. Vincent of Lerins, and he adds: ‘But it is not sufficient for that father to establish the same truth which I have laid down as a foundation, but he even establishes it by the very same principle, namely, that the truth coming from God was perfect from the first’ (Sec. 5); and he then quotes St. Vincent as saying : —

I cannot sufficiently express my surprise, how men are so proud, so blind, so impious, so carried away by error, that not content with the rule of faith, once given to the faithful, and handed down from those who went before, they are every day looking for novelties, and are daily seeking to add, to change, or take away something from religion, as if it was not a heavenly truth, which once revealed is sufficient, but only a human institution, which can only come to perfection by continual changing, or more correctly, by every day finding out some defect (Sec. 5.)

And still quoting St. Vincent, Bossuet adds: —

But in order the better to understand the sentiments of St. Vincent we must look at his proof. And the proof of the unchangeable character of the doctrine is St. Paul’s exhortation to Timothy: ‘Oh, Timothy, guard the deposit’; that is, as he explains it, not what you have yourself discovered, but what has been entrusted to you, what you have received from others, and not at all what you might have invented yourself. (Sec. 5.)

From Bossuet’s own words, therefore, in the Avertissement relied on by Dr. Salmon, it is perfectly clear that his teaching as to the unchangeable character of Catholic faith, and the explanation of doctrines under the control and guidance of the teaching Church, is the same as Catholic theologians have always held and taught. It is the teaching given by St. Paul to his disciple Timothy, inculcated by St. Vincent in the beautiful language already quoted from him, and reiterated in St. Vincent’s own words in the acts of theVatican Council. Dr. Salmon professes to have read the Avertissement, and he gives in his own book the acts of the Vatican, and he does not see how they agree in this matter.

All looks yellow to the jaundiced eye.

The character given of Jurieu by his co-religionist and contemporary Bayle, would not lead one to attach much importance to his views on theology, or indeed on any other subject. His views on Development Dr. Salmon professes to have taken from Bossuet’s Avertissement, and Dr. Salmon’s contention is, that our theory now was Jurieu’s theory then, and that it seems a very serious matter if ‘the leading authorities in the Boman Church have now to own …. that the Calvinist minister was in the right, and their own champion in the wrong ’ (page 37). Now, when we refer to the Avertissement, from which Dr. Salmon has taken his information, we find Jurieu’s theory of Development described by Bossuet as follows: ‘It may be alleged that the changes were only verbal in the terms, and that in reality the Church’s belief was always the same. But this is not true . . .  for the way in which we have seen that the ancients speak of the generation of the Son of God, and of His inequality with the Father, convey impressions very false and very different from ours.’ (Sec. 6.) Again from Sec. 8 we learn that according to Jurieu the early Christians did not believe that the Person of the Son of God was eternal, and consequently did not believe that the Trinity was from eternity.

Again in Sec. 9 we are told that according to Jurieu the early Christians did not believe that God was immutable. In Sec. 10 we are told that according to Jurieu the first Christians believed that the Divine Persons were not equal, and from Sec. 13 we learn that, according to Jurieu, the early Christians did not know the mystery of the Incarnation. It is needless to quote any further the blasphemies of this man. It is quite unnecessary to inquire whether Jurieu really held these blasphemies, though Bossuet convicts him out of his own mouth. Such at all events is the theory of Jurieu from the very text which Dr. Salmon professes to have quoted. According to Jurieu the early Christians were not only ignorant of true doctrines, but they held for at least three centuries doctrines that were blasphemous, and subversive of all true faith, and that from this mass of blasphemous error truth gradually (par parcelles) came forth. And with this text and proof before him Dr. Salmon does not hesitate to tell his students that Jurieu’s position then was the Catholic position now, and that ‘in Newman’s Essay on Development everything that had been said by Jurieu and by Petavius . . .  is said again, and said more strongly’ (page 37).

And what has Petavius done that he should be classed with such a person as Jurieu? Surely his character as one of the greatest scholars of his age, and one of the leading theologians of the great Jesuit Order, should have made even Dr. Salmon hesitate to link him with such an ignorant fanatic. But the most extraordinary feature of the charge against Petavius is that the very text on which the charge is grounded proves it to be utterly and entirely false — is simply a formal refutation of the charge. Again Dr. Salmon takes his information from the Avertissement, and the only refer ence to Petavius is in Sec. 28, in which Bossuet undertakes to prove ‘that the passage of Petavius quoted by Jurieu, states the direct contradiction of what that minister attributes to him.’ And Bossuet proves his assertion conclusively from the text of Petavius. There was question only of the doctrine of the Trinity, and Bossuet shows that according to Petavius all the fathers agree as to the mystery, though they sometimes differ as to the manner of explaining certain things connected with it.

In the less important matters some few, very few, have erred. Some have spoken inaccurately but the great multitude of the fathers have been as accurate in their language as they were orthodox in their faith. This, according to Bossuet, is the teaching of Petavius, and anyone who consults Petavius himself will find Bossuet’s statement quite correct. The text will be found in the preface to the second volume of Petavius’ works, c. 1, n. 10 and 12 of Zachary’s edition, Venice, 1757. Now, though Petavius directly contradicts Jurieu, Dr. Salmon declares that they agree, and by some clever mental process he finds that Newman agrees with both. In proof of this he says that ‘Newman begins by owning the unserviceableness of St. Vincent’s maxim “quod semper”’ (page 37).

Dr. Salmon himself has made the same admission at page 270. He adds that Newman ‘confesses that is impossible by means of this maxim (unless indeed a very forced interpretation be put on it) to establish the articles of Pope Pius’ creed . . . impossible to show that these articles are any part of the faith of the Early Church’ (page 37). Dr. Salmon is here fully availing himself of his ‘advantage in addressing an audience all one way of thinking,’ and thus he is led again to attribute to Newman a statement that has no foundation in his text. Newman says nothing of what is attributed to him here. In speaking of St. Vincent’s maxim, Newman says that an unfair interpretation is put on the maxim by Protestants in order to make a case against the Catholic Church, and that for this unfair interpretation Protestants themselves suffer.

It admits [Newman says] of being interpreted in one of two ways: if it be narrowed for the purpose of disproving the Catholicity of the creed of Pope Pius, it becomes also an objection to the Athanasian; and if it be relaxed to admit the doctrines retained by the English Church, it no longer excludes certain doctrines of Rome which that Church denies. It cannot at once condemn St. Thomas and St. Bernard, and defend St. Athanasius and St. Gregory Nazianzen. [Essay on Development, p. 9]

And Newman adds: —

Let it not be for a moment supposed that I impugn the orthodoxy of the early divines, or the cogency of their testimony among fair inquirers: but I am trying them by that unfair interpretation of Vincentius which is necessary in order to make him available against the Church of Rome. [Ibid., p. 15]

This is Cardinal Newman’s real view as to the rule of St. Vincent of Lerins, very different from the view attributed to him by Dr. Salmon in his anxiety to make a case against the Catholic Church. And it is for this same object that Bossuet and Jurieu and Petavius are quoted by Dr. Salmon, to make them available against the Catholic Church. The attempt, however, is a miserable failure. In fact, no one can read the Avertissement, and read Dr. Salmon’s paraphrase of it, without feeling— well, that the Doctor is a very imaginative person, that he has a rather clever way of manipulating his authorities, that he is a sort of mesmeriser who can make his media say precisely what he wants them to say. His aim is, he says, not victory, but truth: but it must be admitted that he has a somewhat peculiar way of telling the truth. His manner of carrying on the ‘Controversy with Rome’ is in strict accordance with the time honoured traditions of Trinity College; and the College is, indeed, fortunate in securing the services of a regius professor who has such a profound knowledge of theology, and such a scrupulous regard for truth.

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,200+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-one books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

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Photo credit: George Salmon, from Cassell’s universal portrait gallery: no later than 1895 [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]
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Summary: Jeremiah Murphy, D.D. made a devastating reply to anti-Catholic George Salmon’s rantings in a multi-part review in The Irish Ecclesiastical Record in 1901-1902.
2023-02-15T16:49:37-04:00

Atheist and prolix critic of Christianity and the Bible Bob Seidensticker runs the popular and influential Cross Examined blog. This is my 83rd critique of his articles (no counter-reply as of yet). He was gracious enough to send me a free e-book copy of his new volume, 2-Minute Christianity: 50 Big Ideas Every Christian Should Understand (May 2022), which I critiqued point-by-point. His words will be in blue.

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This is a reply to portions of Bob’s article, “Defending the Bible with undesigned coincidences” (2-13-23). Bob will be informed in a personal letter of this response.

Searching for undesigned coincidences is an exciting new pastime within Christian apologetics. Well, maybe not new—it’s an exciting revived pastime. Undesigned Coincidences in the Writings Both of the Old and New Testament was published in 1854, and other books preceded it.

It’s a fascinating and fruitful subject matter, for sure. My friend Lydia McGrew (traditional Anglican) has published the book, Hidden in Plain View: Undesigned Coincidences in the Gospels and Acts (2017).

More important, these two gospels don’t tell the same story. In Matthew, the beating comes from members of the Sanhedrin, at the end of the trial. But in Luke, it’s guards who beat Jesus, and then he’s taken to the Sanhedrin.

Let’s see if we can find actual proof one of the infamous “contradictions” dreamt up by atheists, between Matthew and Luke. Matthew provides the story of Peter’s denial of Christ immediately after stating:

Matthew 26:67-68 (RSV) Then they spat in his face, and struck him; and some slapped him, [68] saying, “Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?”

Luke presents the same story of Peter right before the same incident:

Luke 22:63-65 Now the men who were holding Jesus mocked him and beat him; [64] they also blindfolded him and asked him, “Prophesy! Who is it that struck you?” [65] And they spoke many other words against him, reviling him.

Clearly, both believe that Peter’s denial occurred at roughly the same time as this “beating” incident (during a portion of Jesus’ kangaroo court trial). Neither specifically note that the Peter incident was before or after the other in time, so there is no undeniable contradiction. Nor is it necessary to even know that detail. Witnesses (or Peter’s own report) wouldn’t have known exactly what was happening inside the building or when any given thing happened, since they were outside of it. Chronology in the Bible, in any event, was not viewed in a strictly linear fashion, like we do today (that’s much more of  Greek thing than a Hebrew / Semitic thing). Topical similarities are relatively more important.

Seidensticker claims there is a contradiction between guards beating Jesus in one account, and the Sanhedrin doing so in the other, and in the two chronologies presented. But is there, really? Luke describes them as “the men who were holding Jesus.” But earlier in his text, he reveals that the same men were “the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders, who had come out against him” (Lk 22:52), who “seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest’s house” (22:54).

Therefore, they weren’t merely “guards” (we know for sure). Matthew is less specific in the immediate context: “those who had seized Jesus led him to Ca’iaphas” (26:57). But earlier he, too, identifies them as, specifically, “the chief priests and the elders” (26:47). Matthew mentions, in harmony with Luke, that there were “elders” (Mt 26:57) and “chief priests” (26:59) at the trial. Luke likewise mentions those two categories of people at the trial (Lk 22:66).

Everything is exactly the same except that Luke added the non-contradictory additional category of “officers of the temple” among those who seized Jesus. Neither uses the word “guard.” That is Bob’s mere guess. But granted, these people were “holding” Jesus, and so that is guarding Him. In any event, it’s the same groups of people in both accounts: those who were part of the council.

The harmonization of the two accounts seems clear and obvious to me: some of the “elders” and chief priests” who were among those present at the trial went out to seize Jesus, having obtained information as to His whereabouts from Judas. Matthew states that Judas “went to the chief priests” (Mt 26:14) to betray Jesus. Luke reports that “he went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them” (Lk 22:4). And so he noted that “chief priests and officers” (acting on this information) seized Jesus (22:52, 54).

We find the same in Mark. Judas went to the “chief priests” (Mk 14:10), and the ones who seized Jesus were “from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders” (Mk 14:43): the same three groups of people who were in the assembly (Mk 14:53). Mark does say that “guards” struck Jesus (Mk 14:65), but there is no reason to not believe that they were from among the assembly. Furthermore, John states that Judas came with “a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees” (Jn 18:3; cf. 18:12).

The same people were guarding Him — were close to Him — during the trial (while they were part of  the deliberations) and struck him in mockery and hatred. They were part and parcel of the council. Thus, no inexorable contradiction whatsoever is present. Atheists like Bob are quick to claim “contradiction!” But it’s almost always a superficial analysis (nothing like what I have just provided). They don’t demonstrate or prove how they can’t possibly be harmonious accounts. The analyses lack logical rigor, to put it mildly.

So what is an undesigned coincidence? Tim McGrew defines it this way:

Sometimes two works written by different authors incidentally touch on the same point in a manner that cannot be written off as copying or having a copy made from some third source.… The two records interlock like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.

Yes; this happens all the time in the Bible. I know, because I’ve been defending it against  innumerable atheist charges of contradiction, that invariably come to nothing. I hope that this will be my next officially published book: Anti-Bible: Refutations of XXX Alleged Biblical Contradictions. My solution above will be added to it.

Sure, let’s say that the books of the New Testament have omissions. That makes them look like ordinary books written with no supernatural oversight.

No; it makes them look like books written in the ordinary manner (and able to be interpreted by means of reason) before we get to the question of inspiration or even their religious or theological nature, generally speaking. All of this analysis is of that sort. A supernatural inspired and infallible revelation would have to, by definition, be free from error, or at least significant error (beyond an extra zero added, or likely mere manuscript transmission errors, etc.). That’s why the discussion of alleged contradictions is important.

If and when the Christian apologist debunks these, he is showing that the Bible is accurate, which is consistent with inspiration, but doesn’t prove it. If he doesn’t succeed, then the doctrine of inspiration would be in significant trouble. We solve the alleged contradictions in order to prove biblical accuracy, not inspiration, which is a much more complex additional matter. Accuracy of hundreds of details confirms overall accuracy, by cumulative argument, and suggests a possible inspiration. And this is important in and of itself, as just explained.

This is like the Argument from Accurate Place Names, which praises the Bible for recording the names for many places that are later confirmed by history or archaeology. Big deal.

Yes it is a big deal, because the Bible has often been accused of getting these details wrong, because (so the skeptic claims) it’s not inspired. Demonstrating accuracy in this respect shows that the Bible has characteristics (accuracy of place names) which are consistent with, and a prerequisite to, inspiration. Both sides have to be aware of the logic and epistemology involved, and what is being claimed for any given argument.

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Photo credit: darksouls1 [Pixabay / Pixabay license]

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Summary: Atheist Bob Seidensticker says Matthew & Luke differ about who mocked and beat Jesus at His trial. I prove the contrary, and also the harmony of several related facts.

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2023-02-21T16:41:00-04:00

Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ’s human nature after His death. He has a Master’s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (active on and off) for six blogs. He has many videos on YouTube.

This is my 56th refutation of Banzoli’s writings. For almost half a year (5-25-22 to 11-12-22) he didn’t write one single word in reply. Why? He says it’s because my articles are “without exception poor, superficial and weak . . . only a severely cognitively impaired person would be inclined to take” them “seriously.” Despite this childish rationalizing, he remarkably concluded at length that my refutations are so “entertaining” that he will “make a point of rebutting” them “one by one.”

He has now replied to me 14 times (the last one dated 1-22-23), and I will (rest assured) counter-reply to any and all arguments (as opposed to his never-ending insults) that he makes in direct response to me. I have disposed of the main droning themes of his ubiquitous slanderous insults in several Facebook posts: see them listed under his name on my Anti-Catholicism page. I plan (by God’s grace) to completely ignore them henceforth, and heartily thank him for providing me with these innumerable blessings and extra rewards in heaven (Matthew 5:11-12).

Google Translate is utilized to render Lucas’ Portugese into English. Occasionally I slightly modify clearly inadequate translations, so that his words will read more smoothly and meaningfully in English. His words will be in blue. Words from past replies of mine to him will be in green.

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This is my reply to Lucas Banzoli’s article, “Os mortos intercedem pelos vivos? (Refutação a Dave Armstrong)” [Do the dead intercede for the living? (Rebuttal to Dave Armstrong] (11-19-22). He was mainly responding to my article, Reply to Banzoli’s “Analyzing the ‘evidence’ of saints’ intercession” (9-22-22).

Dave, who never wrote a single line to prove theism

One of my first major apologetics efforts was to prove and defend the divinity / deity / Godhood of Jesus and the Holy Trinity from the Bible: back in 1982 — likely before Lucas was born. I have a huge web page on those topics and a book devoted to it: Theology of God: Biblical, Chalcedonian Trinitarianism and Christology (2012); also another that devotes more than a hundred pages to those topics: Mere Christian Apologetics (2002). My largest effort when I began doing apologetics in 1981 (and still one of my biggest writing / research projects ever, after 41 years), was a systematic refutation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who deny that Jesus is God (see that study): including their falsehood about souls and annihilationism (held by Banzoli).

As for theistic arguments, I massively deal with those on my Science & Philosophy web page and my huge Atheism page. My third book directed towards atheists (The Word Set in Stone: How Archaeology, Science, and History Back Up the Bible) is to be published this March 20th by Catholic Answers Press. Unlike Banzoli, who is only self-published, as far as I can tell — and in desperate need of a professional editor — , I have over twenty “officially” published books. My new book literally and directly came about as a result of a year-and-a-half of intense discussions and debates with atheists in their own environments: as did my brand-new book that I just finished. See also my large collection of articles: Bible & Archaeology / Bible & Science.

My other two books intended primarily for atheists are Christian Worldview vs. Postmodernism (2002) and Science and Christianity: Close Partners or Mortal Enemies? (2010). I just completed a fourth that I have high hopes of getting officially published as well: Anti-Bible: Refutations of XXX Alleged Biblical Contradictions (see also my large web page devoted to alleged biblical contradictions).

So that’s four books from me critiquing atheism and defending theism (one now 21 years old) vs. two for Banzoli. Yet according to him, I “never wrote a single line to prove theism” and my “whole poor life consists of attacking evangelicals literally 24 hours a day (by his own admission, this is his ‘job’).”  This is the fantasy world that he lives in: often sadly characterized by an inverse relationship to the truth.

Dave even goes so far as to say that I “falsely claim to be evangelical”,

That’s right. As one who was a fervent evangelical myself, for 13 years, and an apologist and evangelist then as well, and a sociology major, I know for a fact that historic Protestant evangelicals — by any reasonable, informed definition of the term and going by their own creeds and confessions and systematic theologies — do not:

1) assert that there is no hell and that unsaved persons are annihilated.

2) assert that there is no such thing as a soul.

I am just as duty-bound to defend the nature of the belief-system of my fellow Christian Protestant evangelicals — whom I greatly admire and respect — as I am to defend the true nature of Catholicism. No one deserves to be misrepresented. Banzoli distorts and twists both and falsely claims to be in one of the categories. This must be opposed.

I didn’t follow this calling in order to be rapturously loved by one and all. I did in order to share and defend God’s truth, come what may. Those who are being corrected almost never appreciate or accept it, and they lash out, as we see Banzoli doing with all his silly, mindless insults in this article (and thirteen others in response to me) that I have mostly ignored. Please pray for him, that God will open his eyes to the fullness of biblical and Christian and Catholic truth.

I suppose this is because I deny the immortality of the soul, which just goes to show how poor Dave’s knowledge of Protestantism is, for if to deny the immortality of the soul is to be “falsely evangelical”, then even Luther was one” false evangelical,” and Dave should stop quoting him as a Protestant on his blog!

Well, he did and he didn’t, as so often. He was self-contradictory. This was noted in the article, “A Re-examination of Luther’s View on the
State of the Dead,” written by Seventh-Day Adventist Trevor O’Reggio in 2011. As an author of a book about Luther and editor of a second volume of his quotations, and webmaster of a very large web page devoted to him, I wrote about Luther and soul sleep in an article that is now almost exactly fifteen years old.

I would simply note that Banzoli himself admitted on page 18, in the Introduction to his book on the soul, that belief in the immortality of the soul is held by “nearly all the Christians in the world.” That includes Protestant evangelicals. If indeed, Luther was wrong on this issue, as Banzoli is, even his own Lutherans didn’t follow him in the error.

it suffices to show that, even if the dead were alive in the afterlife, they would not have knowledge of what is happening on earth or a sufficient degree of consciousness to intercede for the living

They certainly have a strong awareness of what is happening on the earth:

Hebrews 12:1 (RSV) Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us.

The Greek word for witness is martur, from which is derived the English word martyr. The reputable Protestant Greek scholars Marvin Vincent and A. T. Robertson comment on this verse as follows:

[T]he idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principal idea. The writer’s picture is that of an arena in which the Christians whom he addresses are contending in a race, while the vast host of the heroes of faith . . . watches the contest from the encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with lively interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid (Marvin R. Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament. 4 vols. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1946, IV, 536).

“Cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) . . . The metaphor refers to the great amphitheater with the arena for the runners and the tiers upon tiers of seats rising up like a cloud. The martures here are not mere spectators (theatai), but testifiers (witnesses) who testify from their own experience (11:2, 4-5, 33, 39) to God’s fulfilling promises as shown in chapter 11 (Word Pictures in the New Testament. 6 vols. Nashville: Broadman Press, 1930, V, 432).

(not to mention countless other problems, such as the lack of omnipresence or omniscience to know what everyone prays everywhere and intercede for each of them at the same time, which would make them gods and not men).

All this requires is being outside of time (not all knowledge or presence everywhere) which would be, so it is reasonable to assume, the result of being present in heaven, where — as many Christian philosophers and theologians believe — it is an eternal “now”. I wrote about this in my article: “How Can a Saint Hear the Prayers of Millions at Once?” [National Catholic Register, 10-7-20]:

The question then becomes: Are we creatures also outside of time (or do we at least transcend earthly time in some fashion?) when we get to heaven and enter eternity? Many philosophers of religion have thought so, on the grounds that heavenly eternity (for creatures) is not endless succession of time, but rather, the cessation of time as we know it from a particular point forward (rather like a ray in geometry).

There are many mysteries about heaven, but who can say what it will be like — including our experience of time or lack thereof? It’s certainly possible that we could be outside of time: not eternally like God, but from the moment we get to heaven.

If human beings can invent computers that are able to produce extraordinary amounts of information and answers and solutions in a split second, is not an omniscient God great enough to enable his creatures to hear prayers in a way that transcends our earthly existence? It seems likely that heaven is a different dimension, or has more dimensions, and time is part of that framework.  . . .

We know heaven will be extraordinary and that we will have glorified bodies, and that now we only “see through a glass, darkly” as Paul stated (1 Corinthians 13:12), and that “eye has not seen” (1 Corinthians 2:9) etc. what God has prepared for us. Paul wrote how he was “caught up into Paradise” and “heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter” (2 Corinthians 12:3-4).

Thus, saints hearing millions of prayers is no “problem” for God at all.

The Bible says that Moses and Samuel still pray for us:

Jeremiah 15:1 Then the LORD said to me, “Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people. Send them out of my sight, and let them go!

God casually mentions this to the prophet Jeremiah. He doesn’t say they shouldn’t pray. He simply (in effect) answers a hypothetical prayer from them on this topic with a “no.” If it were impossible for a dead saint to intercede to God for those on earth, God could never have spoken in this fashion; or else He would have asserted the contrary: “Moses and Samuel cannot stand before me and intercede!” or suchlike. Banzoli replies to this later in his paper:

Note that the text does not say that Moses and Samuel stood before God or interceded after death; rather, it says that even if they were, God would not answer them (which means they weren’t ). 

The thought is that “even the greatest intercessors and prayer warriors cannot persuade Me not to judge in this case, since the time is ripe for judgment.” That’s not a denial of the possibility that Moses and Samuel could intercede after their deaths; rather, it’s expressing the thought that “even if they asked me not to judge, I still would, having decided to.” This appears to be too subtle for Banzoli to grasp, judging by his droningly repetitive and groundless objection to it, but I trust that my readers will be able to understand the argument. Sometimes (this is the case for all of us), we have to read something a few times before it sinks in.

If Moses and Samuel were alive at that moment as disembodied souls in Paradise, they would obviously be praying for Israel, as this is what these two prophets always did for the people in life and what they would not fail to do after death. 

Exactly. And God would still have the prerogative to judge anyone who took their rebellion against Him too far.

In this case, the text would say that despite their intercession, God did not answer them. But what the text says is exactly the opposite: even if they did that – which they don’t, because they are dead – God would not answer them.

It means the same thing: “despite” = “even if they [the great prayer warriors] prayed”.

The only difference is that here we are not dealing with a logical impossibility (that is, with something ontologically impossible), but with something impossible from a biblical perspective (unless Moses and Samuel were resurrected to be in the presence of God and intercede for the people ).

It’s not in the slightest biblically “impossible.” Samuel appeared after death to Saul and told him a prophecy about his own impending death and judgment. If he can prophesy after death, he can certainly also pray. Moses (along with Elijah) appeared with Jesus when He was transfigured (I visited the spot where this happened), and was “talking with him” (Mt 17:3). If he can do that, he can surely pray for us on earth. And Jeremiah 15:1, correctly understood, minus this heretical soul sleep predisposition, teaches the same about both of them.

In other words, Israel’s wickedness had reached such a level that even if Moses and Samuel were standing before God interceding for the people, God would not hear them.

Exactly! We agree! Stop the presses! It doesn’t prove that they couldn’t utter such prayers at all or that they no longer exist. Banzoli simply projects that onto the passage (eisegesis). I can think of at least two passages with the same sort of dynamic:

Ezekiel 14:14, 16 even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, says the Lord GOD. . . . [16] even if these three men were in it, as I live, says the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither sons nor daughters; they alone would be delivered, but the land would be desolate.

Matthew 11:21 “Woe to you, Chora’zin! woe to you, Beth-sa’ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.”

In both cases, God is not talking about an absolutely impossible scenario, but rather, a possible one where He says what would have happened if this possible thing had actually occurred. Likewise with Jeremiah 15:1.

he clearly doesn’t know what exegesis is and must never have consulted Hebrew in his life and looked up cross-references. 

This is just one example among countless ones, of Banzoli’s endless insults sent my way. I simply document it. There is clearly no need to reply to such an asinine lie.

it was not Samuel’s soul, but a demonic spirit impersonating Samuel. 

Demons don’t give true prophecies. They lie. There is not the slightest hint in the text that it is a demon in play. The Bible calls this spirit “Samuel.”

This part in the book has 24 pages, so I won’t tire the reader by transcribing everything here 

I already dealt with this topic, against Banzoli and also another anti-Catholic over fifteen years ago, and in two additional papers:

#13 (Dead Biblical Heroes Return to Earth!: Samuel & Saul / Moses & Elijah at Jesus’ Transfiguration) [12-1-22]

Communion of Saints, Scripture, & Anti-Catholic Doug Mabry (With Emphasis Particularly on the Saul and [Dead] Samuel Incident) [7-8-07]

Samuel Appearing to Saul: Argument for Communion of Saints? [7-1-07]

Dialogue on Samuel Appearing to Saul (Witch of Endor) [5-6-17]

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Banzoli claims that even the “best” arguments for the immortality of the soul are “ridiculously embarrassing” and that his book’s arguments “really are insurmountable.” Modesty and humility are clearly not his strong suits. He objects to this counter-argument of mine:

Isaiah 38:18-19 For Sheol cannot thank thee, death cannot praise thee; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for thy faithfulness. [19] The living, the living, he thanks thee, as I do this day; the father makes known to the children thy faithfulness.

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee; in Sheol who can give thee praise?

Many Protestant commentators hold that the above two passages express a lack of energy or will power in Hades / Sheol, as opposed to non-existence or unconscious “sleep.”

Note that Dave does not even exegete the texts – if he has actually read them – he simply limits himself to saying what certain “Protestant commentators hold”, as if that in itself relieves him of the responsibility of explaining the texts through a decent exegesis.

Okay; let’s look more closely at them. Do they prove that there is no consciousness at all in Sheol? I provided several other passages that contradict such a notion, and he addresses some of those further down in his reply. For now, I will simply analyze the above passages. I would say that the doctrine of the afterlife slowly developed in Jewish thought. It wasn’t significantly or sufficiently clarified until after the Old Testament was completed.

At this point (Isaiah lived in the eight century BC and Psalm 6:5 was from David, who died c. 970 BC) Sheol (later known as Hades) tended to be a very shadowy, mysterious place, and there was relatively little distinction between the righteous and the wicked who went there after death. But Isaiah elsewhere describes conscious communication in Sheol (14:9-11), which is why I cited that passage. Isaiah doesn’t consistently portray soul sleep. This gives us reason to believe that 38:18-19 is likely merely figurative poetry, and that the doctrine was still very “fuzzy” and poorly understood in his time. Isaiah also wrote:

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead shall live, their bodies shall rise. O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy! . . .

This is hardly a shadowy temporary existence in Sheol and then annihilation. Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers observes, regarding Isaiah 38: “The thought of spiritual energies developed and intensified after death is essentially one which belongs to the ‘illuminated’ immortality (2 Timothy 1:10), of Christian thought.” Barnes’ Notes on the Bible adds:

All these gloomy and desponding views arose from the imperfect conception which they had of the future world. It was to them a world of dense and gloomy shades – a world of night – of conscious existence indeed – but still far away from light, and from the comforts which people enjoyed on the earth. We are to remember that the revelations then made were very few and obscure; . . . It was a land of darkness; an abode of silence and stillness; a place where there was no temple, and no public praise such as he had been accustomed to.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (“Sheol”) expands upon this:

It is, as the antithesis of the living condition, the synonym for everything that is gloomy, inert, insubstantial . . . It is a “land of forgetfulness,” where God’s “wonders” are unknown (Ps 88:10-12). There is no remembrance or praise of God (Ps 6:588:12115:17, etc.). In its darkness, stillness, powerlessness, lack of knowledge and inactivity, it is a true abode of death; hence, is regarded by the living with shrinking, horror and dismay (Ps 39:13Isa 38:17-19), though to the weary and troubled it may present the aspect of a welcome rest or sleep (Job 3:17-2214:12 f). The Greek idea of Hades was not dissimilar.

Yet it would be a mistake to infer, because of these strong and sometimes poetically heightened contrasts to the world of the living, that Sheol was conceived of as absolutely a place without consciousness, or some dim remembrance of the world above. This is not the case. . . . The state is rather that of slumbrous semi-consciousness and enfeebled existence from which in a partial way the spirit might temporarily be aroused. Such conceptions, it need hardly be said, did not rest on revelation, but were rather the natural ideas formed of the future state, in contrast with life in the body, in the absence of revelation. . . .

There is no doubt, at all events, that in the postcanonical Jewish literature (the Apocrypha and apocalyptic writings) a very considerable development is manifest in the idea of Sheol. Distinction between good and bad in Israel is emphasized; Sheol becomes for certain classes an intermediate state between death and resurrection . . . (cf. another article in the ISBE: “Eschatology of the Old Testament”).

But the OT Jews were not left with no doctrine of an afterlife at all. God delivers or rescues the righteous from Sheol (“he brings down to Sheol and raises up”: 1 Sam 2:6; cf. Ps 30:3; 49:15; 86:13; 89:48). But Sheol (in OT theology) is the hopeless final state of the wicked (Ps 6:5; 9:17; 31:17; Is 14:11, 15 cf. Mk 9:48; 38:18; 66:24). See my article: Salvation and Immortality Are Not Just New Testament Ideas [National Catholic Register, 9-23-19].

Moreover, the Old Testament strongly implies at least six times that some righteous may not have to experience Sheol at all, which is directly contrary to it meaning simply “the grave”: where everyone ends up:

Job 33:18 he keeps back his soul from the Pit, . . .

Job 33:28 He has redeemed my soul from going down into the Pit, . . .

Psalm 16:10 (David) For thou dost not give me up to Sheol, or let thy godly one see the Pit.

Psalms 49:9 that he should continue to live on for ever, and never see the Pit. . . .

Proverbs 15:24 (Solomon) The wise man’s path leads upward to life, that he may avoid Sheol beneath.

Isaiah 38:17 . . . thou hast held back my life from the pit of destruction, . . .

Note that Isaiah 38:17 is the verse before one of Banzoli’s own arguments. Isaiah 38:18 can hardly signify the grave where everyone goes and all are unconscious, when the verse before precisely denies this and implies that some may not go there (thereby proving that it cannot possibly mean the grave). That’s exegesis; that’s context. If Banzoli wants that, he’s got it. I’m delighted that he challenged me again, so I could greatly strengthen and expand my argument. Gotta love when that happens . . .

But the worst is . . .  the hypocrisy of saying that the dead in Sheol or Hades had a “lack of energy or willpower” to explain Isaiah 38:18-19 and Psalm 6:5, while uses to its advantage the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, which is interpreted literally and where the characters in Hades did not have any “lack of energy or willpower”. On the contrary: they converse naturally, even with those lost on the other side; the rich man feels pain and thirst, and Lazarus has the ability to dip his finger in water. What does all this have to do with “lack of energy or willpower”? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

This is apples and oranges: comparing the primitive OT doctrine of the afterlife from 970 BC and the 8th c. BC with Jesus’ doctrine in the first century AD. It would be like comparing the biology or astronomy of 1000 AD with those fields today. By the first century AD the theology of the afterlife had greatly developed, and we see this in Jesus’ recounting of the true story of the rich man and Lazarus and His and other NT teachings on hell and heaven. And of course He would know the true state of things: being God and omniscient.

The characters in the parable 

It’s not a parable, as I have explained.

are perfectly awake and willing, just as any of us are, and nowhere do we have the slightest suggestion or hint that Abraham and Lazarus could not praise the Lord (as expressed in Isaiah 38:18-19) or that not even remember Him (as expressed in Psalm 6:5). On the contrary: the rich man remembers Lazarus perfectly well and even his five brothers who remained in the land (Luke 16:27-28), and Abraham remembers Moses and the prophets perfectly well (v. 29). With that in mind, note the strategy of dissimulation: in order to “explain” texts like Isaiah 38:18-19 and Psalm 6:5, he says that the dead are practically in a “vegetative” state (although they still exist), but at the same time time cites in its favor a parable (which for Dave is not even a parable!) which completely contradicts this idea!

If one doesn’t have an inkling as to the nature and definition of doctrinal development (which seems to be the case with Banzoli) this might make some sense and have some force. But when one properly understands it and gets up to speed, it proves (to quote him) nothing, absolutely nothing.

Banzoli states that Isaiah 14:11 is “obviously a poetic allusion”. Good! Then maybe he’ll also figure out that many of the texts regarding Sheol are also poetic and non-literal. Psalms and Proverbs and Ecclesiastes are all poetic books, and much of prophetic utterance is also. He cites Isaiah 14:20 and highlights “You will not be joined with them in burial“: as if all of these passages are referring to the common “grave” of all mankind (later, he states unequivocally: “Sheol is precisely the “universal grave of the dead”).

Okay, great: I hope he explains, then, the six passages above that I produced: all stating that some righteous don’t have to go to Sheol or the Pit (what he thinks is the grave) at all. Are they all instantly transported to heaven like Enoch and Elijah? Maybe they were cremated? Please do tell!

In Ezekiel (32:24-25, 30), Sheol is described as a place where the inhabitants “bear their shame”: obviously a conscious event. People there talk and describe others who have joined them in Sheol:

Ezekiel 32:21 The mighty chiefs shall speak of them, with their helpers, out of the midst of Sheol: `They have come down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.’

Banzoli presents the larger context of Ezekiel 32:18-32 and opines:

As anyone can see by reading the entire context, it is just poetic language to speak of the grave, the common and universal destiny of all the dead. Hence Sheol is cited in parallel with the tomb ( qeber ), as if they were the same thing.

So how is it that the six verses proclaim that not all have to go to this “grave”? As in my original argument, I would contend that certain phrases imply a conscious existence: they “bear their shame” (32:24-25, 30).

there is nothing there [in Ezekiel 32] that hints at after-death torment, colossal tortures, . . . or unquenchable fire.

Catholics aren’t claiming that Sheol is the same as hell (it’s always good to be familiar with the view one opposes). It was a holding-place for souls (good and bad) before the redemptive death of Christ. This was made crystal clear in Jesus’ teachings in Luke 16.

long-tailed demons with pitchforks, 

This notion isn’t biblical. I did a search for “demon” and “tail” together and nothing came up. “Pitchfork” isn’t in the Bible at all. But “winnowing fork” is biblical. It appears three times (Jer 15:7; Mt 3:12; Lk 3:17). The only problem is that the first refers to God the Father having such a fork, and the second and third refer to Jesus having it. This is the difference between what the Bible and the Catholic Church actually teach, and the distorted, absurd caricature of same by anti-Catholic polemicists.

This in no way changes the fact that “the dead know nothing”, as expressed in the first part of the text [Ecc 9:5]. If the text is to be understood in the sense of “not knowing anything that happens in this life”, it is a complete refutation of the doctrine of the intercession of the saints, in which the dead need to know what happens here so that they can intercede for the living. 

The dead obviously know quite a bit, as is obvious in Luke 16, in the souls crying under the altar in Revelation, and Hebrews 12:1, commented upon above.  And Jesus said,

Matthew 22:31-32 . . . have you not read what was said to you by God, [32] ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Ecclesiastes 9:5 must be interpreted in harmony with those sorts of passages, if we regard the Bible as internally consistent and harmonious inspired and infallible revelation (as the Catholic Church does and many Protestant evangelicals do as well). Its meaning is simply poetic: phenomenologically describing the dead, who can no longer do anything (bodily), and alluding to the lack of activity in Sheol, according to the early dim understanding of that doctrine (Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon, who lived in the 10th century BC).

Why would God need to tell a dead person what you are going through for that dead person to intercede on his behalf, when he can do it himself without going through any bureaucracy? What sense does this outsourcing of prayer make?

God doesn’t have to “tell” them anything. He only needs to give them the ability to be outside of time and to be able to perceive happenings and thoughts on earth. Hebrews 12:1 and other passages indicate that reality. The “outsourcing of prayer” is quite biblical, as I explained in my paper (with copious biblical support): Bible on Praying Straight to God (vs. Lucas Banzoli) [9-21-22]. Catholics are much more biblical than Protestants are. We seek to follow all of the Bible’s teaching.

A Catholic prays to a saint, but the saint doesn’t know anything that the Catholic prays, so God needs to tell the saint what the Catholic is praying, so that the saint himself is aware and then asks God for what God himself he could have done it the first time, but he preferred to submit to all this meaningless bureaucracy.

This is a gross caricature and fairy tale, and thoroughly unbiblical, as just explained. Nice try, though.

Although some translations render it as “the grave”, it is Sheol that appears in the Hebrew [in Ecc 9:10] – that is, exactly the «different realm» where Dave believes that the dead are perfectly alive and aware of what is happening around them.

Yes I do, because Jesus explicitly teaches that in Luke 16, and I have this odd habit of actually believing in and accepting clear, plain teachings of my Lord and Savior Jesus: God the Son. Banzoli seems to lack this good and pious habit.

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Photo credit: The Transfiguration (1518-1520), by Raphael (1483-1520) [Moses and Elijah are next to Jesus] [Wikimedia Commons / Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license]

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Summary: I take on the topic of dead saints interceding for us, and systematically dismantle Banzoli’s weak and poor arguments for the heretical doctrine of soul sleep.

2023-01-09T16:53:05-04:00

. . . And What is a So-Called “Bible Difficulty”?

This is Chapter One of a hoped-for book tentatively entitled, Anti-Bible: Refutations of XXX Alleged Biblical Contradictions. It lays bare some of the basic repeated fallacies that atheists and other skeptics employ in their attacks upon the internal logical consistency (and indirectly upon the inspiration) of the Bible.

*****

A common tactic of biblical skeptics is to question the veracity and historical trustworthiness of the New Testament based on alleged numerous “contradictions” therein. But most of these so-called “problem passages” can easily be shown to be noncontradictory and in fact, complementary. This is what might be described as the “1001 Bible contradictions” ploy.

Anyone can go look up the definition of “logical contradiction.” The great Greek philosopher Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) defined a contradiction as two statements that cannot both be true and cannot both be false. For extreme depth on the matter, see: “Contradiction” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy), or “Logical Consistency and Contradiction,” by philosopher G. Randolph Mayes.

But how do anti-theist atheists habitually define a biblical contradiction? It seems that they regard this as any slightest shade of difference, or one passage not mentioning something or adding another detail. They are predisposed to see biblical conflicts and clashes and “contradictions” and so they “see” them.

In the desperation to find contradictions, any instance of a different report (not absolutely identical in all respects) is regarded as contradictory, when in fact this is not so at all, and obviously so, for anyone who will take a little time to reflect upon it. The following is an illustrative example of the sorts of things that atheists claim are “contradictory”:

1. Joe says he saw Bill walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at 3:10 PM on a hot Saturday afternoon.

2. Alice says she saw Ed walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at 4:10 PM.

3. John says he saw Kathy walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at 4:30 PM.

4. Sally says she saw Bill walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at about 3:15 PM, Ed buy an ice cream there at about 4:20 PM, and Kathy buy an ice cream there at about 4:45 PM.

Now, according to these conflicting and contradictory reports, how many people (at least) bought an ice cream at the Dairy Queen between 3:10 and about 4:45 PM on a hot Saturday afternoon? Was it 1, 2, 3, or 6? Actually, none of the above, because (in all likelihood) many more people went there during that time to buy ice cream. They just weren’t all recorded. But skeptical hyper-critics look at the above data (lets say they represent the four Gospels) and see a host of contradictions:

1. Joe contradicts Alice as to who visited there in an hour’s time.

2. Joe contradicts John as to who visited there in an hour and 20 minutes time.

3. Alice contradicts John as to who visited there in 20 minute’s time.

4. Joe says someone visited at 3:10, but Alice claims it was at 4:10, and John says it was at 4:30.

5. Joe, Alice, and John can’t even agree on who visited the Dairy Queen in a lousy span of only 80 minutes! They are obviously completely untrustworthy! Probably two or more of them are lying.

6. To top it all off, we have the utter nonsense of Sally, whose time for Bill’s arrival contradicts Joe’s report by 5 minutes!

7. Sally’s time for Ed’s arrival contradicts Alice’s report by 10 minutes!!

8. Sally’s time for Kathy’s arrival contradicts John’s report by 15 minutes!!!

And so on and so forth. This is the sort of incoherent reasoning which we get from so many skeptics of the Bible, who pride themselves on their reasoning abilities and logical acumen, over against us allegedly gullible, irrational orthodox Christians, who accept biblical inspiration. Many examples of this sort of nonsense can be easily located in the usual laundry lists of biblical contradictions which frequently appear in skeptical and atheist literature, often exhibiting the most elementary errors of fact or logic.

I shall now provide three brief examples of asserted contradictions that are not contradictions at all, from replies I made to all 194 entries on one skeptical site (citations from the site in italics):

2) The announcement of the special birth came before conception. Lk.1:26-31.
The announcement of the special birth came after conception. Mt.1:18-21.

Luke details the Annunciation, which was God’s “proposition” to Mary, which she accepted (being willing to bear God in the flesh). Matthew gives an account from the perspective of Joseph. An angel tells him, “do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit” (1:20). I don’t see how two announcements about the same event, given to the two people involved, is any sort of “contradiction.” It’s no more contradictory than a doctor informing a woman that she is pregnant, and the woman informing her husband that she is pregnant. It’s simply two announcements from two people to two people about the same thing. No one would say that both are the same (one) announcement.

13) John [the Baptist] knew of Jesus before he baptized him. Mt.3:11-13; Jn.1:28,29.
John knew nothing of Jesus at all. Mt.11:1-3.

Matthew 11:1-3 doesn’t say he knew “nothing” of Him at all. John, while being persecuted in prison, simply wondered (it could have been for only ten minutes, for all we know) if Jesus was indeed the Messiah, and sent a message to Jesus through his disciples, to ask Jesus about that (which is quite different from knowing “nothing . . . at all” about Jesus). It was merely a temporary lack of faith, in his suffering (probably without food or sleep). It shows that John was a human being, like all of us, and like all the saints are. The Bible is realistic about human nature, and the faults and imperfections and weaknesses even of great and saintly persons.

15) It is recorded that Jesus saw the spirit descending. Mt.3:16; Mk.1:10.
It is recorded that John saw the spirit descending. Jn.1:32.

They both saw the same thing. So what? If my wife and I both see a meteor lighting up the night sky, that’s somehow a “contradiction”?! Remember, that’s what all of these are supposed to be, according to our never-ending critics. (1)

Fair-minded and open-minded folks should be able to easily see through the shallowness of such absurdly supposed “proofs.” I had no problem refuting all 194 of them. The skeptical underlying assumptions are almost always assumed as axioms (reasons for this acceptance are deemed unnecessary), and the Christian assumptions are almost always frowned upon as irrational, impossible, etc.

We often hear, for example, the weak objection that John’s Gospel excludes a lot of the important events in Jesus’ life, which are recorded in the synoptic Gospels. But it obviously had a different purpose (it was more theological in nature, rather than purely narrative). In the world of biblical hyper-criticism, however, facts such as those are of no consequence. The usual predisposition is that contradictions are involved, per the above shoddy reasoning.

Oftentimes, falsely perceived “contradictions” in Holy Scripture involve different genres in the Bible, various meanings of particular words or ideas in widely divergent contexts, translation matters, and interpretational particulars: frequently having to do with the very foreign (to our modern western sensibilities)  ancient Hebrew culture and modes of thinking (see my article, “Difficulty” in Understanding the Bible: Hebrew Cultural Factors [2-5-21]). I know these things firsthand, because I myself have offered — through the years and in this book — what I think are good resolutions or “solutions” to hundreds of proposed biblical “contradictions.”

Other times, a purported “contradiction” may simply be a matter of manuscript errors that crept in through the years. Of course, that sort of error is only in transmission, and is not part of the original text, so it wouldn’t cast doubt on the non-contradictory nature of the original transcripts of the Bible (if indeed we can plausibly speculate that it was merely an innocent copyist’s error).

Sometimes, “contradictions” are alleged based on various arguments from plausibility. A common atheist tactic in discussions on biblical texts is to claim that all (or nearly all) Christian explanations are “implausible” or “special pleading” and suchlike. They very often assume what they need to prove, in thinking that all these texts are self-evident before we even get to closely examining them in context, checking the Greek and relevant cross-references, etc. But that issue is a very complex one. What different people find plausible or implausible depends on many factors, including various premises that each hold.

It’s just as wrong and illogical for the atheist to use “implausible” as the knee-jerk reaction to everything a Christian argues about texts, as it is for the Christian to throw out truly implausible or unlikely replies. Both things are extremes. Neither side can simply blurt out “implausible!” or “eisegesis!” without getting down to brass tacks and actually grappling with the text and its interpretation in a serious way. We can’t — on either side — simply do a meta-analysis and speak about replies rather than directly engage them. To prove that any explanation is “implausible” requires more than merely asserting that is is. Bald assertion is not argument. It’s proclamation.

I’ve been saying for years that atheists and other biblical skeptics approach the Bible like a butcher approaches a hog. Most — especially atheists, and particularly former Christian atheists — couldn’t care less about actually resolving these alleged Bible difficulties, or giving the Bible a fair shake. The “anti-theist” sub-group of atheism only wants to tear Holy Scripture and Christianity down. It has little or no interest in defenses of an infallible, inspired Bible or discussions with those who submit them.

I have much firsthand experience of these tendencies, having engaged in several thousand attempted dialogues in atheist online forums (several of the most prominent and popular online), and sometimes in atheist groups in person.

Biblical skeptics, who see “contradictions” everywhere, and who never seem to have “met” a proposed one that they didn’t like, are at the same time usually 1) abominably ignorant of the Bible’s contents and interpretation, and 2) seemingly unfamiliar with classical logic or, say, a textbook of logic ( and in case anyone is wondering, I did take course on logic in college).

Few things bolster my Christian faith more than dealing with these alleged “biblical contradictions”: because the arguments are almost always so shallow and even laughable, that we see the Christian faith as far more rational and sensible. Observing (while I am making my own arguments) the Bible being able to withstand all attacks is incredibly, joyfully faith-boosting. It’s the unique blessing we apologists receive for our efforts.

Because Bible skeptics have difficulty in proving actual biblical contradictions (by the dictionary definition of the word), what they do is collect a multitude of pseudo-contradictions which are not logical contradictions at all, and then rant and carry on that there are just so “many“!!! What they neglect to see is that a pack of a hundred lies is no more impressive or compelling than one lie. A falsehood is a falsehood. If a hundred proposed biblical contradictions are all refuted and shown to not be so, then the ones who assert them have not gained any ground at all. They haven’t proven their case one iota, until they prove real contradiction.

We Christians (and apologist types like myself) are obviously defending the Bible and Christianity and have our bias, just as the Bible skeptic also is biased in the other direction. But we need not necessarily assume anything (by way of theology) in order to demonstrate that an alleged biblical contradiction is not present. That’s simply a matter of classical logic and reason.

One need not even believe in “biblical notion X” in order to argue and assert that opponent of the Bible A has failed to establish internal inconsistencies and contradictions in the biblical account involving biblical notion X. One simply has to show how they have not proven that a contradiction is present in a given biblical text. I’ve done this myself innumerable times through the years.

We are applying the accepted secular definition of “contradiction”: which is part of logic. Too many atheists want to act as if the definition of “contradiction” is some mysterious, controversial thing, that Christians spend hours and hours “haggling” over. It’s not. It’s very straightforward and it’s not rocket science.

If something isn’t contradictory, it’s not a “Bible problem” in the first place. But atheists have at their disposal catalogues of hundreds of “Bible problems” — so that they can pretend as if they have an impressive, insurmountable overall case. This has been standard, stock, playbook atheist and Bible skeptic tactics for hundreds of years. They keep doing it because it works for those who are unfamiliar with critical thinking and logic (and the Bible).

Atheists and other biblical skeptics can reel off 179 alleged / claimed contradictions (as all Bible skeptics love to do: the mere “appearance of strength”). But this proves absolutely nothing because any chain is only as good as the individual links. Each one has to be proven: not merely asserted, as if they are self-evidently some kind of insuperable “difficulty.” One hundred bad, fallacious arguments prove exactly nothing (except that the one proposing them is a lousy arguer and very poor at proving his or her opinions).

One online atheist, to whom I have offered rebuttals many times, started out one of his articles by writing, “How can Christians maintain their belief when the Bible is full of contradictions?” Imagine if I said that about atheism?: “How can atheists maintain their belief when atheism is full of self-contradictions?” I do actually believe that, and think I have demonstrated it many times, but simply saying it [to an atheist] is no argument in and of itself. It has to be proven. The “proof’s in the pudding.” Any serious argument will be able to be defended against criticism.

Closely related to this issue of alleged biblical contradictions is the matter of “Bible difficulties.” We should actually fully expect many “Bible difficulties” to arise from the study of the Bible, for the following reasons, as as bare minimum:

1. The Bible is a very lengthy, multi-faceted book by many authors, from long ago, with many literary genres (and in three languages), and cultural assumptions that are foreign to us. All complex documents have to be interpreted. When human beings start reading them, they start to disagree, so that there needs to be some sort of authoritative guide. In law, that is the Supreme Court of any given jurisdiction. The U.S. Constitution might be regarded as true and wonderful and sufficient, etc. But the fact remains that this abstract belief only lasts undisturbed as long as the first instance of case law in which two parties claim divergent interpretations of the Constitution. The Bible itself asserts that authoritative interpretation is needed to fully, properly understand its teachings:

Nehemiah 8:1-2, 7-8 (RSV) And all the people gathered . . . and they told Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the LORD had given to Israel. And Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could hear with understanding, . . . the Levites, helped the people to understand the law, while the people remained in their places. And they read from the book, from the law of God, clearly; and they gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading.

Mark 4:33-34 With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as they were able to hear it; he did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything.

Moses was told to teach the Hebrews the statutes and the decisions, not just read them to the people (Exod. 18:20). The Levitical priests interpreted the biblical injunctions (Deut. 17:11). Ezra, a priest and a scribe, taught the Jewish Law to Israel, and his authority was binding (Ezra 7:6, 10, 25-26).

2. The Bible purports to be revelation from an infinitely intelligent God. Thus (even though God simplifies it as much as possible), for us to think that it is an easy thing to immediately grasp and figure out, and would not have any number of “difficulties” for mere human beings to work through, is naive. The Bible itself teaches that authoritative teachers are necessary to properly understand it.

3. All grand “theories” have components (“anomalies” / “difficulties”) that need to be worked out and explained. For example, scientific theories do not purport to perfectly explain everything. They often have large “mysterious” areas that have to be resolved.

Think of, for example, the “missing links” in evolution. That didn’t stop people from believing in it. Folks believed in gradual Darwinian evolution even though prominent paleontologist and philosopher of science Stephen Jay Gould famously noted that “gradualism was never read from the rocks.” Even Einstein’s theories weren’t totally confirmed by scientific experiment at first (later they were). That a book like the Bible would have “difficulties” to work through should be perfectly obvious and unsurprising to all.

4. Christianity is not a simpleton’s religion. It can be grasped in its basics by the simple and less educated; the masses, but it is very deep the more it is studied and understood. Thus, we would expect the Bible not to be altogether simple. It has complexities, but we can better understand them through human study, just like anything else.

Having written this initial outline and description of my fundamental premises and presuppositions, and some of the common issues involved, I shall now proceed to an examination of xxx instances of “alleged biblical contradictions.”

Footnotes

(1) “194 Contradictions, New Testament”: http://www.skeptically.org/bible/id6.html.

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

***

Photo credit: aklara: “digital-fractal-abstract-geometry-lines” [public domain / Needpix.com]

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Summary: Introduction to my book about instances of alleged “biblical contradiction”. I summarize some of the main aspects and tendencies of the ongoing attempted dialogue.

2022-12-20T15:31:54-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. I have critiqued 83 of his articles, (no counter-reply as of yet). He was gracious enough to send me a free e-book copy of his new volume, 2-Minute Christianity: 50 Big Ideas Every Christian Should Understand (May 2022), which I critiqued point-by-point. His words will be in blue.

*****

This is a reply to his articles, “Can the Star of Bethlehem be scientifically verified?” (11-28-22) and “The Star of Bethlehem, a real event?” (12-6-22).

The New Testament has two nativity stories, one in Matthew and one in Luke. They both claim Bethlehem as the birthplace and a virgin birth, but that’s all they agree on.

The last clause is not true. Simply having different but complementary accounts is not disagreement. It’s not even logical to claim that, unless there are demonstrable direct contradictions in play (and there aren’t). It would be like me writing about a white Christmas (that we are about to have in Michigan) and my wife writing about the presents our family got.

Is that “contradictory”? Apparently, Bob would say it is, and that we disagreed. I and classical logic say it isn’t. A real contradiction would be, for example, me saying that our family exchanged no presents this Christmas, and my wife describing fifty presents that we opened up this Christmas.

The shepherds “keeping watch over their flock by night,” murderous king Herod, the census, the baby in a manger, fleeing to Egypt—these are all unique to one or the other of those gospels.

Yeah, so what? It’s irrelevant: what we call a non sequitur in logic. They chose to highlight different aspects. Big wow.

Larson ignored that little problem . . . 

It is no problem, so it didn’t have to be “ignored.”

Larson . . . focused just on the magi (perhaps best thought of as astrologers in the royal court) following the star in Matthew chapter 2.

Since his video was about the star of Bethlehem, that makes perfect sense, doesn’t it?! What: now we can’t focus on one topic unless we comprehensively deal with every jot and tittle of alleged NT “contradictions” according to atheists? It’s absurd. Secondly, they were of the priestly caste. They weren’t kings, and the Bible never refers to them as such (that’s just more mythical “Christmas carolology”).

If you’re going to look at historical astronomical phenomena to find what happened in the sky around Jesus’s birth, you need to know when to look.

I totally agree.

Matthew tells us that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod, who scholars say died in 4 BCE.

That’s the current consensus, but there are serious objections to it. I summarized some of them in chapter 13 of my soon-to-be-published book, The Word Set in Stone: How Science, History, and Archaeology Prove Biblical Truth:

Historians have primarily relied on the Jewish  historian Josephus (37-c. 100 A.D.) for determination of this date, as influentially interpreted by Protestant theologian and historian Emil Schürer in his 1891 book, A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ. But physicist John A. Cramer noted that the lunar eclipse preceding Herod’s death, as noted by Josephus, may have been at a later date than the usually accepted one:

This date [4 B.C.] is based on Josephus’s remark in Antiquities 17.6.4 that there was a lunar eclipse shortly before Herod died. This is traditionally ascribed to the eclipse of March 13, 4 B.C. Unfortunately, this eclipse was visible only very late that night in Judea and was additionally a minor and only partial eclipse. There were no lunar eclipses visible in Judea thereafter until two occurred in the year 1 B.C. Of these two, the one on December 29, just two days before the change of eras, gets my vote since it was the one most likely to be seen and remembered. That then dates the death of Herod the Great into the first year of the current era, four years after the usual date.[i]

This argument was also advanced in the nineteenth century by scholars Édouard Caspari, Florian Riess, and others, so it’s not new. Josephus[ii] also noted that Herod died before the Jewish Passover holy day.

These are our two historical clues. John A. Cramer, continuing his analysis based on Josephus, concluded:

Only four lunar eclipses occurred in the likely time frame: September 15, 5 B.C., March 12-13, 4 B.C., January 10, 1 B.C. and December 29, 1 B.C. . . .

The December 29 eclipse, the moon rose at 53 percent eclipse, and its most visible aspect was over by 6 P.M. It is the most likely of the four to have been noted and commented on.[iii]

Noted professor of New Testament history and archaeology Jack Finegan (1908-2000) took a different approach and examined the manuscript evidence in Josephus:

The currently known text of Josephus’ Ant. 18.106 states that [Herod] Philip died in the twentieth year of Tiberius (A.D. 33/34 . . .) . . . This points to Philip’s ascension at the death of Herod in 4 B.C.. . . .

In 1995 David W. Beyer reported to the Society for Biblical Literature his personal examination in the British Museum of forty-six editions of Josephus’s Antiquities published before 1700 among which twenty-seven texts, all but three published before 1544 read “twenty-second year of Tiberius,” while not one single edition published prior to 1544 read “twentieth year of Tiberius.” . . .

[This] points to 1 B.C. . . . as the year of death of Herod. . . . Accordingly, if the birth of Jesus was two years or less before the death of Herod in 1 B.C., the date of birth was in 3 or 2 B.C., presumably precisely in the period 3/2 B.C., so consistently attested by the most credible early church fathers.[iv]

Jack Finegan noted some early writers’ reckoning3/2 B.C. for the birth of Jesus, including Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Julius Africanus, Hippolytus of Rome, Hippolytus of Thebes, Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, and Epiphanius of Salamis. Another argument that can be made is the date of coins issued by Herod the Great’s successors. The evidence shows that none can be dated before 1 A.D. These coins were controlled by Rome, and only after Herod the Great’s death could such coins be issued. It would be odd for a five-year gap to occur.

As we shall see, a tentative acceptance of Herod’s death in 1 B.C. or 1 A.D. (if Finegan and others of the same opinion are in fact right) will be significant in terms of lining up the known astronomical data regarding an extraordinary “bright star” in the sky that can ostensibly or speculatively be equated with the star of Bethlehem.

[i] John A. Cramer, “Herod’s Death, Jesus’ Birth and a Lunar Eclipse: Letters to the Editor debate dates of Herod’s death and Jesus’ birth,” Bible History Daily / Biblical Archaeology Society (30 November 2020; originally 7 January 2015):

[ii] Josephus, Antiquities 17.9.3; The Jewish War 2.1.3.

[iii] Cramer, ibid.

[iv] Jack Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Hendrickson, 1998), 298-299.

Larson said that he was temporarily sidelined by worries that this might be astrology, because the Bible warns its followers away from astrology. [cites Isaiah 47:13–15] However, Larson found a green light in biblical references to constellations Orion and Pleiades (Job 9:9) and reminders that God created the stars and named them (Isaiah 40:26). This is another example that the Bible can be made to say just about anything. Astrology is bad or astrology is not bad—it’s all there.

Having rationalized an argument that his work wasn’t blasphemous, Larson soldiered on.

Nonsense. Astrology as it is today is indeed condemned in the Bible. But simply observing the stars and constellations is not condemned. As I wrote in my book:

They were . . . Zoroastrians: members of a religion that forbade sorcery, and  astrologers in the ancient Mesopotamian definition, where the appearance of the heavens was seen as a reflection of what happened on earth but not an actual cause. [italics added presently]

So, nice try to manufacture another “contradiction,” but no cigar. The Bible never says that the star of Bethlehem or any celestial phenomenon caused the birth of Jesus. The cause is clearly spelled out: He was conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit (Mt 1:18-21; Lk 1:35).

(8) The star went ahead of them, and then (9) it stopped. Taking the story literally, it sounds like the star was a moving light, like a firefly. 

I dealt with this yesterday in another reply to Bob regarding the star. It was referring to retrograde motion of planets: a phenomenon that Bob himself conceded could account for the star “stopping” (and one which the stargazers of that time — amazingly — were already familiar with). None of this requires a “Tinker Bell” or “firefly”-like event.

***

The Star of Bethlehem was (drum roll, please), the planet Jupiter! 

It was in the last six-mile portion of the wise men’s journey (from Jerusalem to Bethlehem). Initially, it was Jupiter in conjunction with Regulus, Venus, Mars, and other celestial bodies, in the period between September, 3 BC and December, 2 BC. But Jupiter was the common denominator of all these “light shows.” Bob wrote about Regulus:

Jupiter had not one but three conjunctions with Regulus (September of 3 BCE, then February the next year, and finally in May). Regulus is actually a four-star system, but the magi would have known it as a single, bright star in the constellation Leo. . . . 

The three Jupiter/Regulus conjunctions are because of Jupiter’s retrograde motion.

All natural phenomena, that God in His providence used to guide the wise men.

Next on the calendar was a very close Jupiter/Venus conjunction on June 17 of 2 BCE, so close that the distance separating them was about the apparent width of either planet. Specifically, they were about 40 seconds apart. (There are 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in a degree and 360 degrees in a full circle. For comparison, a full moon is 30 minutes, or 1800 seconds, in diameter.)

Another natural event, producing a bright “star” . . .

The magi would’ve been familiar with conjunctions, and the remarkable thing about this conjunction wasn’t the brightness but the closeness. Conjunctions this close aren’t that rare astronomically, but they would’ve been unusual or unique in the lifetimes of these men.

There you go . . .

This is an interesting set of facts, but Larson benefits from 20/20 hindsight. He knows what he wants to find, so he scans the possibilities (and moves the date of Herod’s death to open up more possibilities) to find what he wants. 

The date of Herod’s death has to be determined in and of itself. If it was 4 BC, none of these events are relevant: they would not have been the “Star of Bethlehem” (period; game over). But if he did die a few years later, then it’s a live possibility that these events were what the wise men saw: leading them to Jerusalem. Larson didn’t “move” the date. He simply threw out for consideration that it may have been later. None of this constitutes dishonestly “find[ing] what he wants” or special pleading or rationalization. People can have honest disagreements!

The Bible’s nativity story is feeble evidence that any magi could or did draw the conclusions Larson would like.

It can be verified by astronomical data, and (again) if Herod didn’t in fact die in 4 BC, then it seems remarkably backed up by what we can determine from astronomy. Atheists always demand “evidence!!!” and “verification” (because many of them seem to think — falsely — that science is the only form of valid, solid knowledge) and that’s precisely what this undertaking is presenting.

***

Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

***

Photo credit: mskathrynne (9-14-18) [Pixabay / Pixabay License]

***

Summary: I interact with the reasoning & conclusions of atheist Bob Seidensticker, in the second of three replies dealing with the astronomical evidence for the star of Bethlehem.

2022-12-19T17:56:00-04:00

+ Discussion of Micah 5:2 (The Prophecy of Jesus’ Birth in Bethlehem)

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. I have critiqued 82 of his articles, (no counter-reply as of yet). He was gracious enough to send me a free e-book copy of his new volume, 2-Minute Christianity: 50 Big Ideas Every Christian Should Understand (May 2022), which I critiqued point-by-point. His words will be in blue.

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This is a reply to portions of his article, “How did the Star of Bethlehem move like Tinker Bell?” (12-19-22).

Can the Star of Bethlehem be explained naturally?

Yes, there are very plausible, science-backed explanations of it. I have adopted one myself (similar to Rick Larson’s), which is included in chapter 13 of my soon-to-be-published book, The Word Set in Stone: How Science, History, and Archaeology Prove Biblical Truth.

Micah chapter 5 has the Bethlehem reference: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel.” As usual with claims that see Jesus behind every rock in the Old Testament, when you look at the context, the prophesied ruler doesn’t sound at all like Jesus.

Sure it does; see my paper, Reply to Atheist Jonathan MS Pearce: Bethlehem & Nazareth “Contradictions” (Including Extensive Exegetical Analysis of Micah 5:2) [7-28-17].

Micah was written after Assyria had conquered the northern kingdom of Israel, and little Judah might be next. During these troubled times, Micah predicted that there would be a king from Bethlehem (since King David was born here, this may simply mean “a king in the line of David” rather than a literal birth in Bethlehem). God will abandon Israel, but then countrymen (presumably scattered Israelites from the aftermath of the conquest) will return to support the new king. With God’s renewed support, the king will bring peace to Judah, defeat any invasion by Assyria, and be celebrated worldwide.

This doesn’t sound like the career of Jesus.

To the contrary, it doesn’t sound like anyone else. The catch is the phrase, “whose origin is from of old, from ancient days” (RSV). The Hebrew word for “ancient days” is ʿôlām (Strong’s Hebrew word #5769): according to Brown-Driver Briggs, its range of meaning includes the following:

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world

1a) ancient time, long time (of past)

1b) (of future)

1b1) for ever, always

1b2) continuous existence, perpetual

1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

If Micah was referring to a current king or a soon-to-be-king, he would not have been “everlasting” or of “ancient time,” etc. This clearly refers to God. No one else can be described like this. See also this article of mine: Dual Fulfillment of Prophecy & the Virgin Birth (vs. JMS Pearce) [12-18-20].

And there’s no mention of the punch line to the Jesus story, the sacrifice and resurrection of mankind’s savior.

Who says that has to be included? It doesn’t. It’s simply predicting the location of the birth of the Messiah. The topic isn’t His redeeming death.

What actually happened was that the Babylonians conquered Judah in the sixth century, so Micah’s prophecy was wrong.

It wasn’t, because it was referring to Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, Who is eternal.

However, if magi from the east didn’t visit Herod or any other Judean ruler on their ascension to the throne, why (besides literary reasons) is it plausible that the magi would visit this time?

Because they saw what they believed were signs in the heavens leading to that conclusion.

If they were knowledgeable about Judaism, why did they have to be told about Bethlehem?

Technically, it’s not certain that they were told about it in the sense of not previously knowing it (according to Matthew). It was Herod who inquired as to where the Messiah was to be born (Mt 2:4), and was told that it was in Bethlehem (2:5), on the biblical basis of Micah 5:2 (2:6). Herod then “sent” the wise men “to Bethlehem.” The text doesn’t indicate whether they already knew about Bethlehem or not. They may have; or if they didn’t, they simply had an incomplete knowledge of Judaism (being likely adherents of Zoroastrianism), just as many Christians and Jews to this day have a lousy, inadequate knowledge of the Hebrew Bible / Old Testament.

It may very likely have been that they thought (or “knew”) the event would be in Jerusalem or its environs. When they arrived, they asked, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews?” (Mt 2:2). They either didn’t know it was to be in Bethlehem, or they did, and were asking more specifically, “where exactly does he live?” It would be (under this hypothesis) the difference between knowing what city or township one lives in, and knowing their actual address, or at least street. We can only speculate about what the text doesn’t clearly spell out. And by this time, it was one-to-two years after His birth, anyway. The Holy Family could have moved somewhere else (in fact, they did eventually move to Nazareth). In my upcoming book, I wrote about this as follows:

My own educated guess, based on my own studies and research, is that the visit of the wise men occurred when Jesus was a year old and that they told Herod the star had appeared a year and three months previously (thinking he may have been born then), based on the conjunction of Jupiter (thought by ancient astrologers to be the  “king” of planets) and Regulus (the star of kingship, and brightest in the constellation Leo) in September, 3 B.C. Herod then decided to kill all children under two just to make extra sure that he killed Jesus.

Perhaps they only knew of a Jewish canon with no Micah, but the book of Micah would’ve been over 500 years old at this point.

Maybe they didn’t know of it, or they had a different interpretation of that verse: perhaps not regarding it as the prediction of this king or Messiah. The Jews argued amongst themselves about all kinds of issues. That’s what the Talmud is about. But the Persians knew about Jews and Judaism to some extent as a result of having freed them (after they conquered Babylon), and allowing them to go back to Israel and Jerusalem in the 5th century BC, due to the magnanimity of Kings Darius and Cyrus.

They might have been isolated from mainstream Judaism, but then we’re back to the question of why they would make the difficult trip to connect with a Judaism they were isolated from.

Again, because the stars suggested it (according to their ancient astrological knowledge). I wrote in my book:

It’s not rocket science (then or now) to know and understand that Jerusalem was west of Persia—so a star to the west having to do with a king (Jupiter and Regulus were associated with a king) and a lion (of Judah), the constellation Leo, provided that there was an existing familiarity with Judaism, would logically lead to Jerusalem, both geographically and in the context of the religions of that time.

I examined my own globe of the world and saw that Jerusalem is almost exactly due west from northwest Persia, where the Magi likely came from. In current maps, Baghdad and Amman, Jordan are roughly on the line due west from this area. Baghdad was built in the eighth century. Ancient Babylon lies about 53 miles south of Baghdad, but it was conquered by the Persians in 539 B.C. and was never the same again, eventually becoming a ruin and wasteland.

Amman (ancient Ammon, in the region of the Ammonites in current-day Jordan) was not religiously significant enough at this time, either, and after the fourth century B.C. it was conquered by the Greeks, Egyptians, and Romans. It was no extraordinary astronomical deduction, then, to conclude that some important happenings due west were to occur in Jerusalem.

Since God spoke to the magi directly when he warned them in a dream to avoid Herod on their return, why couldn’t he just have told them, “Go to Bethlehem, avoiding Jerusalem, by date X to visit the new king of the Jews”?

Who knows? Many things God does are mysterious, and we should fully expect this, if indeed He is omniscient, as Jews and Christians believe He is. But what is truly silly is to think that we can totally figure such a God out, and second-guess Him at every turn.

Why would the ambiguous motion of Jupiter be preferable?

Heavenly signs are important to many religions. The Bible stated:

Numbers 24:17 A star shall come forth out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel.

Joel 2:30 And I will give portents in the heavens . . .

Avoiding a visit to Herod would’ve also avoided tipping him off to the rival king, which caused the Massacre of the Innocents (not that avoiding bloodshed is much of a priority in the Bible).

We either have free will or we don’t. If we do, we are truly free, and God isn’t obliged to intervene every time human beings commit evil or plan to do so (I wrote about this very thing at great length, twenty years ago). The example I always use to illustrate the point relates to the Nazi Holocaust. Atheists and many others seem to want to blame God for that. For the life of me, I have never been able to understand or figure out why:

Atheist or other critic of God: ” why didn’t you stop the Nazis? You’re responsible for them and for the Nazi Holocaust!”

God: “I’m not! The rest of the world was perfectly capable of observing the German military build-up and stopping it before it got off the ground. But it preferred to close its eyes. John F. Kennedy wrote his book, Why England Slept about this. Knowing this propensity for head-in-the-sand irresponsibility, I did, however, send my messenger Winston Churchill, who warned vociferously through the mid-30s of the German build-up. No one wanted to believe him. So why do you blame Me for your own willful blindness and stupidity? You were amply warned of the great tragedy that was to occur. You could have fully prevented it. You chose not to. And so it’s just the usual human blame-shifting. You foolishly and vainly try to blame Me for your own blindness and wickedness. In a similar manner, Malcolm Muggeridge warned England and the west of the Soviet forced starvation of ten million Ukrainians in the early 1930s and no one wanted to believe him, either, preferring their own fantasies of good old ‘Uncle Joe’ Stalin. How is that My fault?”

Of course, if we’re questioning God’s motivation,

What makes anyone think they are competent to do so in the first place: especially a person who doesn’t even believe in God?

we could ask why he celebrated the most important event on earth since Creation with a vague light show that would be understood by a few strangers rather than something grand that would alert the world. 

He does lots of unexpected things like that. God becoming a baby in a manger is perhaps the most inexplicable thing of all from our warped human perspective. We want kings coming from the heavens throwing thunderbolts around (like Zeus). That’s the kind of “god” we invariably manufacture. But the real God chose instead to come to earth as a baby in a stinky, lowly cave (I’ve been there, and it is indeed a cave), and for that matter, to be tortured and executed in one of the most painful ways known to man. Scarcely anyone could have predicted either thing.

But of course, when God does indeed do something grand like, for example, making the sun dance and have different colors, and immediately drying up the rain and mud, as happened at Fatima, Portugal in October 1917, with 70,000 witnesses, atheists simply blow that off, too. It’s what they claim they want (Bob expressed it above, again, and I’ve seen this demand a hundred times), but when it actually happens, they thumb their nose at it, as they do with every other miracle God has ever performed. Nothing is ever good enough for them. And that’s because they refuse to believe, not that they are unable to or that there isn’t enough reason to. It’s two different things (will vs. mind).

The real light show and universal manifestation will be the Second Coming, but by then it will be too late for those who refuse to believe and follow God. They will have had every chance to believe, and to choose to cease their rebellion, or continue in it all the way to hell, where they can finally be free from the “oppressive” God that they so despised, altogether, and forever.

But (just a trifle I should note), the star of Bethlehem phenomenon happened a year to two years after Jesus’s birth. The “light show” that actually happened at His birth was to the shepherds in the fields:

Luke 2:8-14 And in that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. [9] And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear. [10] And the angel said to them, “Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; [11] for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. [12] And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.” [13] And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, [14] “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!”

Note that this is not the star of Bethlehem. It’s the supernatural light of the “glory of the Lord.” The Star never shone down on the manger and the baby Jesus (it couldn’t have anyway because He and it were in a cave), despite 10,000 Christmas cards conditioning us to believe otherwise. We should get our theology from the Bible, not Hallmark.

God could’ve told everyone or he could’ve told no one, but instead he gave just a hint to a few men hundreds of miles away from the birthplace of Jesus.

Yes, and what of it? I see nothing wrong with it. See my next comment.

Apparently, God moves in stupid ways.

The story of both the wise men and the shepherds both made it into inspired revelation, which has now been read by several billion people. I think that’s a pretty good way to go about things. An event: even a spectacular one, is still confined to time and place, and those who come later can always find a way to dismiss it if they are determined to do so. But an inspired message in a book that can move souls and change lives goes on and on. God has His messengers, too: priests, pastors, evangelists, monks, nuns, teachers, catechists; even apologists like me! We spread the Good News. All of this is far more efficient than one “light show” at one point of time. That’s not “stupid.” But the objection is, if I may say so.

Finally, let’s consider how Jupiter “went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.”

Yes, and when and how long did that happen? It was on the six-mile long journey from Jerusalem to Bethlehem (Mt 2:1, 7-9). A camel travels about 3 miles per hour on average (the same as a man’s walk), so it would have taken two hours to get to Bethlehem, either by camel or foot. That’s roughly the entire time the Bible refers to them (in non-literal language, I believe) following a star. In the language of appearance (non-literal language), it “went before them” not in perceived motion, but because it was always ahead of them on the way.

We know from the astronomical charts that Jupiter, in later November and early December in 2 B.C. was to the south from Jerusalem; therefore, it “went before” the wise men as they traveled south to Bethlehem—the journey that the text refers to. Jupiter wouldn’t have moved much on the way from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. This (I submit) is what the Bible (which habitually uses phenomenological language) means by saying that the star “went before” them.

In other words, it would always have been “ahead” or “in front of” or “before” them as they traveled: much as we say we are “following the sun west” or how American slaves (in folklore, at least, if not in fact) attempting to escape to the north followed the “drinking gourd” (the Big Dipper) north. Thus, one could say the Big Dipper or North Star “went before” the slaves, just as we say they “followed” it. The North Star would also lead anyone to the North Pole if he kept following it; that is, by our vantage point, it would “go before” him. It’s all phenomenological language, which we use all the time, just as the biblical writers also did.

“[The star] stopped over the place where the child was” is not something Jupiter could ever do.

That’s not true, and Bob himself concedes how it could do so:

Larson’s attempt to salvage his theory uses one of Jupiter’s switches between forward and retrograde motion (it switches directions twice a year) as a “stopping” point. Yes, Jupiter’s motion relative to the fixed background of stars would apparently stop for several days, but this does nothing to get us to “it stopped over the place where the child was.”

It explains how it could settle over Bethlehem for only roughly two hours of time (at a minimum). The ancients at this time actually knew about retrograde motion, and I believe this is how they described it in simple, observational language. Let’s examine more closely what the author may have been describing in saying that the star “came to rest over the place where the child was.”

First of all, the text (Matt. 2:9) doesn’t indicate that it shone specifically on a “house.” This is a common misconception. Matthew 2:11, just two verses later, simply says they went “into a house”—not that the star was shining on it, identifying it. We must be precise about what any given text under consideration actually asserts and does not assert. Two of the very best and renowned Protestant Bible commentators and exegetes of our time (R. T. France and ) agree:

R. T. France: It is not said to indicate the precise house, but the general location where the child was.

D. A. Carson: The Greek text does not imply that the star pointed out the house where Jesus was or that it led the travelers through twisty streets; it may simply have hovered over Bethlehem as the Magi approached it.

The Greek “adverb of place” in Matthew 2:9 is hou. In the RSV, hou is translated by “the place where” (in KJV, simply “where”). It applies to a wide range of meanings beyond something as specific as a house. In other passages in the RSV, it refers to a mountain (Matt 28:16), Nazareth (Luke 4:16), a village (Luke 24:28), the land of Midian (Acts 7:29), and the vast wilderness that Moses and the Hebrews traveled through (Heb. 3:9). Thus, it can easily, plausibly refer to “Bethlehem” in Matthew 2:9.

This is an important point because it goes to the issue of supernatural or natural. A “star” (whatever it is) shining a beam down on one house would be (I agree) supernatural—not any kind of “star” we know of in the natural world. But a star shining on an area, in the direction of an area (which a bright Jupiter was to Bethlehem in my scenario, at 68 degrees in the sky), is a perfectly natural event.

Matthew 2:9 is similar to how we would speak in English, “Where I was, I could see the conjunction very well.” “Where” obviously refers to a place. And one’s place is many things simultaneously. Thus, when I saw the “star of Bethlehem”-like conjunction in December 2020, I was in a field, near my house (in my neighborhood), in my town (Tecumseh), in my county (Lenawee), in my state (Michigan), and in my country (United States). This is my point about “place” in Matthew 2:9. It can mean larger areas, beyond just “house.” If the text doesn’t say specifically, “The star shone on the house,” then we can’t say for sure that this is what the text meant.

I have found eighteen other English Bible translations of Matthew 2:9 that also have “the place where” (Weymouth, Moffatt, Confraternity, Knox, NEB, REB, NRSV, Lamsa, Amplified, Phillips, TEV, NIV, Jerusalem, Williams, Beck, NAB, Kleist & Lilly, and Goodspeed). In all these cases, they are translating hou, literally meaning “where” but at the same time implying place (which is the “where” referred to). The Living Bible (a very modern paraphrase) has “standing over Bethlehem,” which bolsters my argument as well (because it doesn’t say “house”).

Remember the Bible’s cosmology. Stars weren’t light years away but were close enough to fall to the ground after the tribulation.

That was the initial Hebrew conception, yes (and we could delve into the philosophical, scientific Greeks and their ridiculous cosmology at the same time), and there is much non-literal poetic expression involved as well. But by this time, their pre-scientific knowledge (whatever they knew) was expressed phenomenologically, and God saw to it that it was accurate as far as it went (i.e., the words are in inspired revelation).

The author of Matthew could have easily imagined tiny stars moving like Tinker Bell (a fairy in Peter Pan who looks like a darting light) to direct the magi to the house where Jesus lived,

Yes, if he had seen Peter Pan on TV, but alas, he did not. And as I just proved at length, the text does not say that the star shone on a house.

but this doesn’t fit with magi supposedly knowledgeable enough to know how planetary motion actually worked.

No it doesn’t. The text as read, however, does fit in with a layman’s perspective of what retrograde motion produces: a seemingly stationary “star” (planet in this case). And we know that they had this knowledge at that time (whether Matthew and the Jews in general did or not), as ones who were stargazers and very aware of what was happening in the heavens.

So back to the title of this article: how did the Star of Bethlehem move like Tinker Bell? Answer: it didn’t. At least not with a natural interpretation, . . . 

I fully agree! It moved like Jupiter does, because it was Jupiter.

There is plenty of room to make a plausible skeptical case against Matthew’s nativity story.

And there is plenty of objective scientific data (from astronomical charts) for us to know where a bright Jupiter or conjunctions were in this general time-period. That can be determined. The much thornier question to work through is the year of Herod’s death, which gives us proposed chronologies of actual years. I get into that in my book as well (and elsewhere), but it’s too involved to enter into in this article.

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Photo credit: OpenClipart-Vectors (10-8-13) [Pixabay / Pixabay License]

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Summary: I elaborate upon several of the fascinating aspects of the story of the star of Bethlehem and interact with various (failed) objections from atheist Bob Seidensticker.

2022-12-15T13:42:36-04:00

Atheist and anti-theist Bob Seidensticker runs the influential Cross Examined blog. I have critiqued 80 of his posts, but he hasn’t counter-replied to any of them. Nevertheless, he was gracious enough to send me a free e-book copy of his new volume, 2-Minute Christianity: 50 Big Ideas Every Christian Should Understand (May 2022). He (unsurprisingly) declined to discuss it back-and-forth, but at least we were civil and cordial. Since I have responded to so much of his material, over four-and-a-half years, I decided to see how many of the 50 issues raised by this book have already, in effect, been “resolved” in my existing writings. And I’ll add a few present responses as well. His words will be in blue.

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Bob writes in his Introduction: “Is Christianity true? If it is, it can withstand critique. If you have a religious belief, it should be grounded by evidence and reason.” The blurb on the Amazon book page adds: “If God wanted mindless faith, he wouldn’t have given you a mind.” Yep; I couldn’t agree more. That’s what I have devoted my life’s work to: offering evidence and reason for all aspects of the Christian faith (what is called “apologetics”). And so I’ll apply that goal to this book. It offers critiques; here I offer solid, superior Christian answers to them. Let the reader decide who has made a better, more convincing case. 

1 Map of World Religions

Let’s return to the map of world religions. Religions claim to give answers to life’s big questions, answers that science can’t give. . . . But the map shows that the religious answers to those questions depend on where you are. . . . We ask the most profound questions of all, and the answers are location specific? What kind of truth depends on location?

38 Christianity Without Indoctrination

39 The Monty Hall Problem

48 Religion Reflects Culture

No truth depends on location; I fully agree. I don’t deny that people’s opinions mostly arise from their environment (“we are what we eat”). But I go on to note that atheists are no different. So, for example, in England about 50% of the population is non-religious (which comes down to atheist or “practical atheist” — which I used to be, myself, up until age 18: living one’s life as if God doesn’t exist).

Therefore, by the very same reasoning that Bob offers, I’d bet good money that in twenty years from now, the atheist population will remain at least this high and maybe grow. And why would that be, if so? It’s precisely because most people adopt the religion or other worldview of their parents. So the atheist growing up in an intensely secularized English home will (big shock!) likely turn out to be an atheist, just as ostensibly Christian environments churn out Christians: at least in name only (sadly, often not much more).

Bob’s buddy and fellow Internet anti-theist John Loftus is very big on this argument. He calls it “the outsider test of faith.” I answered his argument over fifteen years ago, and (as usual) he decided not to grapple with my critique. Here is part of what I wrote:

Religion needs to be held with a great deal more rationality and self-conscious analysis for the epistemological basis and various types of evidences for one’s own belief. I believe everyone should study to know why they believe what they believe.

This “one becomes whatever their surroundings dictate” argument can be turned around as a critique of atheism. Many atheists — though usually not born in that worldview — nevertheless have decided to immerse themselves in atheist / skeptical literature and surround themselves with others of like mind. And so they become confirmed in their beliefs. We are what we eat. In other words, one can voluntarily decide to shut off other modes and ways of thinking in order to “convince” themselves of a particular viewpoint. That is almost the same mentality as adopting a religion simply because “everyone else” in a culture does so, or because of an accident of birth. People can create an “accident of one-way reading” too.

My position, in contrast, is for people to read the best advocates of any given debate and see them interact with each other. That’s why I do so many dialogues. John Loftus could write these papers, and they may seem to be wonderfully plausible, until someone like me comes around to point out the fallacies in them and to challenge some of the alleged facts. Read both sides. Exercise your critical faculties. Don’t just read only Christians or only atheists. Look for debates where both sides know their stuff and have the confidence to defend themselves and the courage and honesty to change their opinions if they have been shown that truth and fact demand it.

Another related “turn the tables” argument along these lines is to note that many famous atheists had either no fathers, or terrible ones, with whom they had little relationship (as I have written about). They projected that onto God as the Cosmic Father and rejected Him.

This was true with regard to atheists such as Freud, Marx, Feuerbach, Baron d’Holbach, Bertrand Russell, Nietzsche, Sartre, Camus, Schopenhauer, Hobbes, Samuel Butler, H. G. Wells, Carlyle, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, and Albert Ellis. Theology based on family relations or lack thereof? That’s hardly a rational or objective analysis. That proves nothing. But there you have it: many atheists have this background: a “map of atheist families” so to speak.

2 A Leaky Ark

This is not one sustained argument, but the typical atheist “100 questions at once” routine. No one can possibly answer all these questions at once (which is why this cynical tactic is often used), unless they have made a sustained, in-depth study of the matter, as I have.

To see the many articles I’ve written about it, please visit my Bible & Archaeology / Bible & Science collection, and  word-search “Noah’s Flood” and “Flood & Noah” for all the resources. Here I’ll make brief replies to a sampling of four of Bob’s innumerable rapid-fire “gotcha”” questions.

It would have required tens of thousands of big trees. Where did the wood come from?

We know that wood was available in northern Mesopotamia around 2900 BC (when and where I posit that a local Flood occurred) and could be shipped down the Tigris and Euphrates rivers to the plains where wood was scarce.

How could all the world’s species fit on board?

They didn’t have to, since it was a local Mesopotamian flood.

What did the carnivores eat while on the voyage?

I suggested a possible solution to that in a 2015 article.

A worldwide flood would have buried the bodies of animals from the same ecosystem together. . . . The fossil record doesn’t show this. . . . Geologists tell us there is no evidence for a worldwide flood, . . . 

Again, educated Catholics and Protestants alike have believed that the Flood was local, not worldwide (and that the Bible, rightly interpreted, is fully harmonious with this view), for well over a hundred years now. I addressed this straw man in a reply to atheist Jonathan MS Pearce a few months back.

3 The Bible’s Shortsighted View of the Universe

Here Bob mocks biblical cosmology, which he clearly doesn’t understand very well; and so he presents the usual caricatured, warped view of the biblical skeptic. I’ve written many articles along these lines:

Biblical Flat Earth (?) Cosmology: Dialogue w Atheist (vs. Matthew Green) [9-11-06]

Flat Earth: Biblical Teaching? (vs. Ed Babinski) [9-17-06]

Genesis Contradictory (?) Creation Accounts & Hebrew Time: Refutation of a Clueless Atheist “Biblical Contradiction” [5-11-17]

Seidensticker Folly #21: Atheist “Bible Science” Absurdities [9-25-18]

Seidensticker Folly #23: Atheist “Bible Science” Inanities, Pt. 2 [10-2-18]

Carrier Critique #3: Bible Teaches a Flat Earth? [3-31-22]

4 Christianity as Society’s Burden

The period when Christianity was in charge in Europe didn’t stand out for the flowering of science and technology. There was innovation during the medieval period (eyeglasses, the water wheel, metal armor and gunpowder weapons, castles, crop rotation, and others), but that was in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

10 The Society that Christianity Gave Us

47 Christianity’s Big Promises

This is sheer nonsense and myth. Eminent physicist Paul Davies (as far as I can tell, a pantheist) stated in his 1995 Templeton Prize Address:

All the early scientists such as Newton were religious in one way or another. … science can proceed only if the scientist adopts an essentially theological world view.

Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947) expressed the same notion in his book Science and the Modern World (1925):

The inexpugnable belief that every detailed occurrence can be correlated with its antecedents in a perfectly definite manner … must come from the medieval insistence on the rationality of God …

My explanation is that the faith in the possibility of science, generated antecedently to the development of modern scientific theory, is an unconscious derivative from medieval theology.

One of the leading philosophers of science, Thomas Kuhn (1922-1996), elucidated the medieval background in his book, The Copernican Revolution (New York: Vintage Books / Random House, 1959):

After the Dark Ages the Church began to support a learned tradition as abstract, subtle, and rigorous as any the world has known … The Copernican theory evolved within a learned tradition sponsored and supported by the Church … (p. 106)

The centuries of scholasticism are the centuries in which the tradition of ancient science and philosophy was simultaneously reconstituted, assimilated, and tested for adequacy. As weak spots were discovered, they immediately became the foci for the first effective research in the modern world. … And more important than these is the attitude that modern scientists inherited from their medieval predecessors: an unbounded faith in the power of human reason to solve the problems of nature. (p. 123)

Loren Eiseley, an anthropologist, educator, philosopher, and natural science writer, who received more than 36 honorary degrees, and was himself an agnostic in religious matters, observed:

It is the Christian world which finally gave birth in a clear articulated fashion to the experimental method of science itself … It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of history that science, which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today is sustained by that assumption. (Darwin’s Centenary: Evolution and the Men who Discovered it, New York: Doubleday: 1961, p. 62)

In my research, I have discovered that Christians or theists were the founders of at least 115 different scientific fields (see the entire list). Here are a select 49 from that list (an asterisk denotes a Catholic priest):

  • Anatomy, Comparative: Georges Cuvier (1769-1832)  Astronomy, Big Bang Cosmology: Georges Lemaître (1894-1966*)
  • Atomic Theory: Roger Boscovich (1711-1787*) John Dalton (1766-1844)
  • Bacteriology: Louis Pasteur (1822-1895)
  • Biochemistry: Franciscus Sylvius (1614-1672) / Antoine Lavoisier (1743-1794)
  • Biology / Natural History: John Ray (1627-1705)
  • Calculus: Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
  • Cardiology: William Harvey (1578-1657)
  • Chemistry: Robert Boyle (1627-1691)
  • Dynamics: Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
  • Electrodynamics: André-Marie Ampère (1775-1836) / James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)
  • Electromagnetics: André-Marie Ampère (1775-1836) / Michael Faraday (1791-1867) / Joseph Henry (1797-1878) /
  • James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)
  • Electronics: Michael Faraday (1791-1867) / John Ambrose Fleming (1849-1945)
  • Genetics: Gregor Mendel (1822-1884*)
  • Geology: Blessed Nicolas Steno (1638-1686*) / James Hutton (1726-1797)
  • Geophysics: Jose de Acosta (1540-1600*)
  • Hydraulics: Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519) / Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
  • Hydrodynamics: Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
  • Mechanics, Celestial: Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
  • Mechanics, Classical: Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
  • Mechanics, Quantum: Max Planck (1858-1947) / Werner Heisenberg (1901-1976)
  • Mechanics, Wave: Erwin Schrödinger (1887-1961)
  • Meteorology: Evangelista Torricelli (1608-1647) / Lazzaro Spallanzani (1729-1799*)
  • Neurology: Charles Bell (1774-1842)
  • Paleontology: John Woodward (1665-1728)
  • Paleontology, Vertebrate: Georges Cuvier (1769-1832)
  • Pathology: Marie François Xavier Bichat (1771-1802) / Thomas Hodgkin (1798-1866) / Rudolph Virchow (1821-1902)
  • Physics, Atomic: Joseph J. Thomson (1856-1940)
  • Physics, Classical: Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
  • Physics, Experimental: Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
  • Physics, Mathematical: Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) / Christiaan Huygens (1629-1695) / Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
  • Physics, Nuclear: Ernest Rutherford (1871-1937)
  • Physics, Particle: John Dalton (1766-1844)
  • Physiology: William Harvey (1578-1657)
  • Probability Theory: Pierre de Fermat (c. 1607-1665) / Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) / Christiaan Huygens (1629-1695)
  • Scientific Method: Francis Bacon (1561-1626) / Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) / Pierre Gassendi (1592-1655*)
  • Seismology: John Michell (1724-1793)
  • Stellar Spectroscopy: Pietro Angelo Secchi (1818-1878*) / Sir William Huggins (1824-1910)
  • Stratigraphy: Blessed Nicolas Steno (1638-1686*)
  • Surgery: Ambroise Paré (c. 1510-1590)
  • Taxonomy: Carol Linnaeus (1707-1778)
  • Thermochemistry: Antoine Lavoisier (1743-1794)  Thermodynamics: James Joule (1818-1889) / Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
  • Thermodynamics, Chemical: Josiah Willard Gibbs (1839-1903)  Thermodynamics, Statistical: James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)  Thermokinetics: Humphrey Davy (1778-1829)
  • Transplantology: Alexis Carrel (1873-1944) Joseph Murray (b. 1919)
  • Volcanology: Athanasius Kircher (1602–1680*) / Lazzaro Spallanzani (1729-1799*) / James Dwight Dana (1813-1895)  Zoology: Conrad Gessner (1516-1565)

See also:

Reply to Atheist Scientist Jerry Coyne: Are Science and Religion Utterly Incompatible? [7-13-10]

Christianity: Crucial to the Origin of Science [8-1-10]

Books by Dave Armstrong: Science and Christianity: Close Partners or Mortal Enemies? [10-20-10]

Albert Einstein’s “Cosmic Religion”: In His Own Words [originally 2-17-03; expanded greatly on 8-26-10]

Atheist French, Soviet, & Chinese Executions of Scientists [10-22-15]

Loftus Atheist Error #7: Christian Influence on Science [9-9-19]

The Bible is Not “Anti-Scientific,” as Skeptics Claim [National Catholic Register, 10-23-19]

The ‘Enlightenment’ Inquisition Against Great Scientists [National Catholic Register, 5-13-20]

Embarrassing Errors of Historical Science [National Catholic Register, 5-20-20]

Seidensticker Folly #44: Historic Christianity & Science [8-29-20]

5 Jesus, the Great Physician

15 The Bible Has No Recipe for Soap

In addition to soap, the Bible could have then added the basics of health care—when and how to use this soap, how boiling will purify water, how to build and site latrines, how to avoid polluting the water supply, how to respond to a plague, how germs transmit disease, the basics of nutrition, how to treat wounds, and so on. After health, it could outline other ways to improve society—low-tech ways to pump water, spin fiber, make metal alloys, keep livestock healthy, or improve crop yields.

Bob goes after the Bible as supposedly anti-medicine, because healings took place, and there is no recipe for soap. It’s not. I’ve written about this several times, too.

Demonic Possession or Epilepsy? (Bible & Science) [2015]

The Bible on Germs, Sanitation, & Infectious Diseases [3-16-20]

Bible on Germ Theory: An Atheist Hems & Haws (. . . while I offer a serious answer to his caricature regarding the Bible and genetics) [8-31-21]

6 Argument from Desire

Theistic Argument from Desire: Dialogue w Atheist [12-2-06]

Theistic Argument from Longing or Beauty, & Einstein [3-27-08; rev. 3-14-19]

Dialogue with an Agnostic: God as a “Properly Basic Belief” [10-5-15]

Implicit (Extra-Empirical) Faith, According to John Henry Newman [12-18-15]

Argument for God from Desire: Atheist-Christian Dialogue [8-7-17]

7 Psalm 22 Prophecy

Reply to Atheist on Messianic Prophecies (Zech 13:6, Ps 22) [7-3-10]

8 Ontological Argument

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9 Original Sin
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Trent Horn, “Is Original Sin Stupid?” (Catholic Answers, 7-10-18)
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Fr. Jerry J. Pokorski, “Original Sin, the Decoder of Human Nature” (Catholic Answers, 2-25-22)
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11 Paul’s Famous Creed
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Jesus “raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” is a reference to the book of Jonah (“Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights”), but the resurrection can’t be “according” to this scripture when the author of Jonah wasn’t making a prophecy. And this “prophecy” fails since Jesus was dead for only two nights, from Friday evening to Sunday morning.
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12 Christianity Answers Life’s Big Questions
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19 Kalam Cosmological Argument
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The only “begins to exist” we know of is the rearrangement of existing matter and energy. An oak tree begins with an acorn and builds itself from water, carbon dioxide, and other nutrients, but God supposedly created the universe ex nihilo (“out of nothing”). The apologist must then defend “Whatever begins to exist from nothing has a cause,” but there is no evidence to support this claim.
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16 Christianity Meets its Match [Mormonism]
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17 Euthyphro Dilemma
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Does God have such a fixed, external source of morality that he consults? Then Christians are caught on one horn of the dilemma. Or does the buck have to stop somewhere, and God is it? Then Christians are caught on the other horn. Neither makes God look good.
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18 Morality, Purpose, and Meaning
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Morality, purpose, and meaning don’t come from outside our world but have always been ours to define.
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34 Why Is Christianity Conservative?
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Perhaps most surprising is that Paul taught nothing about the Trinity, . . .
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This is dead-wrong and astonishingly ignorant . . . see his many many statements about the Trinity and deity of Christ in my compilations:
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Jesus is God: Hundreds of Biblical Proofs (RSV edition) [1982; rev. 2012]
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50 Biblical Proofs That Jesus is God [National Catholic Register, 2-12-17]
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21 God Loves the Smell of Burning Flesh
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22 Thought Experiment on Bible Reliability
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The time between when Matthew was written and our best copies, averaging the gap chapter by chapter, is two hundred years. It’s a little less for Luke and John and a little more for Mark. How do we know those books made it through that obscure dark period without significant change?
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31 25,000 New Testament Manuscripts
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I just wrote yesterday, in replying to another atheist:

The oldest extant manuscript for the Histories of the Greek historian Herodotus (c. 484 – c. 425 BC), for example, is Codex Laurentianus LXX, from the 10th century (see more information on his manuscripts). By my math that is 1300-1500 years after it was written. The History of the Peloponnesian War was written at the end of the 5th century BC by Thucydides (c. 460 – c. 400 BC). The earliest manuscript for it dates from the 11th century (1400-1500 years later). The Geography by Strabo (c. 64 BC – c. 24 AD) was composed shortly before the birth of Christ. The best manuscript is from the end of the tenth century (900-1,000 years later).

I think readers get the idea, without need of further examples. The moral of the story is: “don’t try to make out that biblical manuscripts or editorial / linguistic revisions, etc., are something wholly unique, or uniquely problematic.”

The classic example of extraordinary preservation of biblical texts is the complete Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls. One Christian website summarizes:

A significant comparison study was conducted with the Isaiah Scroll written around 100 B.C. that was found among the Dead Sea documents and the book of Isaiah found in the Masoretic text. After much research, scholars found that the two texts were practically identical. Most variants were minor spelling differences, and none affected the meaning of the text.

One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, “Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.”

So a measly two hundred years? That’s nothing . . .

23 Isaiah 53 Prophecy
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this suffering servant is likely the nation of Israel, punished through the Babylonian exile. This is also the traditional Jewish interpretation. In addition, any parallels between the Isaiah 53 “suffering servant” and Jesus are easily explained by the gospel authors using the Jewish scripture to embellish the gospels.
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24 Atheists Need the Christian Worldview
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“God did it” is no more useful or informative than “logic and arithmetic are just properties of our reality” or “that’s just the way it is” or even “I don’t know.” An interesting question has been suppressed, not resolved. In fact, by the theologian’s own reasoning, his answer rests in midair because he gives no reason to conclude God exists. His claim is no more believable than that from any other religion—that is, not at all.

The person who stops at “God did it” has stated an opinion only—an opinion with no evidence to support it. It doesn’t advance the cause of truth at all. Mathematics is tested, and it works. God is an unnecessary and unhelpful addition to the mix.

25 Transcendental Argument

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26 Women at the Tomb
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If Bob’s argument here were coherent and clear, I would provide some answer for it. But I read it three times and, for the life of me, I can’t figure out what in the world he is contending (it’s not the usual claim in resurrection disputes, of allegedly contradictory accounts), so I’ll pass. Bob’s writing — wrong though it invariably is  — is usually quite easy to understand. Since Bob won’t dialogue with me, I guess I’ll likely never find out. Not that I will lose any sleep over it or have an existential crisis . . .
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27 When God Lies
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God once lied through a prophet. King Ahab of Israel consulted his 400 prophets about an upcoming battle, and they assured him of success. Only one prophet predicted disaster, but he was correct. God wanted Ahab to die and authorized a spirit to cause the other prophets to lie to lure him into the battle.
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In the Exodus story, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart to prevent him from releasing the Israelites. The New Testament has God doing the same thing. To those destined for hell, “God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

The Jewish opponents of Jesus were treated the same way. They saw his miracles. They didn’t believe, but not because the evidence was poor, because they didn’t understand, or because they were stubborn. No, they didn’t believe because God deliberately prevented them from believing. “[God] has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts.” But why harden the hearts of bad people? Were they going to do bad things of their own accord or not?

Perhaps atheists also don’t believe because God hardened their hearts. If so, why do they deserve hell?

God “Hardening Hearts”: How Do We Interpret That? [12-18-08]

28 Fruits of Christianity

Now consider hospitals. Christians might point to medieval hospitals to argue that they were pioneers in giving us the medical system we know today, but without science, a hospital can do nothing but give food and comfort. Church-supported hospitals centuries ago were little more than almshouses or places to die.

Seidensticker Folly #59: Medieval Hospitals & Medicine [11-3-20]

Seidensticker Folly #60: Anti-Intellectual Medieval Christians? [11-4-20]

Medieval Christian Medicine Was the Forerunner of Modern Medicine [National Catholic Register, 11-13-20]

Carrier Critique #4: Bible & Disease & Medicine (+ Medical Advances Made in the Christian-Dominated Middle Ages) [3-31-22]

“Medieval medicine of Western Europe” (Wikipedia)

“Forget folk remedies, Medieval Europe spawned a golden age of medical theory” (Winston Black (professor of medieval history], The Conversation, 5-14-14)

“Medicine or Magic? Physicians in the Middle Ages” (William Gries, The Histories, Vol. 15, Issue 1, 2019)

“Top 10 Medical Advances from the Middle Ages” (Medievalists.Net, Nov. 2015). The ten advances are the following:

Hospitals / Pharmacies / Eyeglasses / Anatomy and Dissection / Medial Education in Universities / Ophthalmology and Optics / Cleaning Wounds / Caesarean sections / Quarantine / Dental amalgams

Scientific & Empiricist Church Fathers: To Augustine (d. 430) [2010]

Christian Influence on Science: Master List of Scores of Bibliographical and Internet Resources (Links) [8-4-10]

33 Empiricist Christian Thinkers Before 1000 AD [8-5-10]

23 Catholic Medieval Proto-Scientists: 12th-13th Centuries [2010]

St. Augustine: Astrology is Absurd [9-4-15]

Catholics & Science #1: Hermann of Reichenau [10-21-15]

Catholics & Science #2: Adelard of Bath [10-21-15]

A List of 244 Priest-Scientists [Angelo Stagnaro, National Catholic Register, 11-29-16]

A Short List of [152] Lay Catholic Scientists [Angelo Stagnaro, National Catholic Register, 12-30-16]

29 Christianity Looks Invented

historians of religion tell us Yahweh looks like other Canaanite deities of the time. There were other tribes in Canaan, and the Bible mentions these—for example, Ammon, Midian, and Edom, as well as Israel—and each had its own god. This I’ve-got-my-big-brother-and-you-have-yours approach is henotheism, halfway between polytheism (lots of gods, and each affects our world) and monotheism (just one god—any others are imposters). With henotheism, each tribe assigned itself its own god. They acknowledged the existence of the other tribes’ gods but worshipped only one. Moloch was the god of the Ammonites, Chemosh was the god of the Midianites, and Yahweh was the god of the Israelites.

Yahweh looks like nothing but one more invented god.

35 Biblical Polytheism

42 The Combat Myth

46 God’s Kryptonite

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The Bible Teaches That Other “Gods” are Imaginary [National Catholic Register, 7-10-20]
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30 The Ten Commandments

Most Christians know the story of Moses and the Ten Commandments, but few realize that God created two very different versions of the Law.

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Or look at the practice of Christianity today. Why is there a Bible Answer Man radio program, and why does GotQuestions.org boast that it has more than half a million Bible questions answered? Shouldn’t God’s message be so clear that there would be no questions to answer? Why are there 1600-page books on systematic theology—why would the study of a perfect god need this? Why is it so complicated? 

Bible “Difficulties” Are No Disproof of Biblical Inspiration [National Catholic Register, 6-29-19]

“Difficulty” in Understanding the Bible: Hebrew Cultural Factors [2-5-21]

An Omniscient God and a “Clear” Bible [National Catholic Register, 2-28-21]

33 Recreating Christianity

Now imagine that all knowledge of Christianity were lost as well. A new generation might make up something to replace it, since humans seem determined to find the supernatural in our world, but they wouldn’t recreate the same thing. There is no specific evidence of the Christian God around us today. The only evidence of God in our world is tradition and the Bible. Lose them, and Christianity would be lost forever.

Bob comes up with this thought experiment and then provides the Christian and biblical answer to it:

The Bible comments on our thought experiment. It claims, “Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” [Romans 1:20] But that’s exactly the problem—God is not clearly seen.

Having solved the problem, Bob simply denies that God is seen in His creation. Well, that’s his opinion. Virtually all of the greatest minds in the first several hundred years of scientific development agreed with this and were theists or Christians. So were many of the greatest philosophers in western civilization. They all saw what Bob can’t see. So how do we decide who is right? Even Einstein stated:

My religiosity consists of a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we can comprehend about the knowable world. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God. (To a banker in Colorado, 1927. Cited in the New York Times obituary, April 19, 1955)

Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe — a spirit vastly superior to that of man . . . In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort . . . (To student Phyllis Right, who asked if scientists pray; January 24, 1936)

Then there are the fanatical atheists . . . They are creatures who can’t hear the music of the spheres. (August 7, 1941)

My point is that perceiving God in the universe that He made is not utterly implausible or unable to be held by the most rigorous, “non-dogmatic” intellects, such as Albert Einstein and David Hume (who — contrary to a widespread myth — was a deist or “minimal theist” and actually accepted one form of the teleological argument). And the atheist has to account for that fact somehow, it seems to me. Hume wrote:

The order of the universe proves an omnipotent mind. (Treatise, 633n)

Wherever I see order, I infer from experience that there, there hath been Design and Contrivance . . . the same principle obliges me to infer an infinitely perfect Architect from the Infinite Art and Contrivance which is displayed in the whole fabric of the universe. (Letters, 25-26)

The whole frame of nature bespeaks an intelligent author; and no rational enquirer can, after serious reflection, suspend his belief a moment with regard to the primary principles of genuine Theism and Religion . . .

Were men led into the apprehension of invisible, intelligent power by a contemplation of the works of nature, they could never possibly entertain any conception but of one single being, who bestowed existence and order on this vast machine, and adjusted all its parts, according to one regular plan or connected system . . .

All things of the universe are evidently of a piece. Every thing is adjusted to every thing. One design prevails throughout the whole. And this uniformity leads the mind to acknowledge one author. (Natural History of Religion, 1757, ed. H.E. Root, London: 1956, 21, 26)

Now, I ask atheists: whence comes Einstein’s “deeply” felt “conviction” or Hume’s conclusion of “an infinitely perfect Architect”? Is it a philosophical reason or the end result of a syllogism? They simply have it. It is an intuitive or instinctive feeling or “knowledge” or “sense of wonder at the incredible, mind-boggling marvels of the universe” in those who have it. Bob doesn’t have this sense. But he has no rational or objective or logical basis with which to mock those — like Einstein and Hume — who do. Their experience is their own, just as Bob’s is his own: all equally valid in terms of the person’s subjective perspective or epistemological warrant.

36 Virgin Birth Prophecy

Reply to Atheist Jonathan MS Pearce: “Mistranslation” of “Virgin”? (Isaiah 7:14) (with Glenn Miller) [7-26-17]

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37 God’s Hiddenness
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40 Historians Reject the Bible Story
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Here Bob says that historians reject the Gospels because they contain miracles. It’s too broad of a statement. Not all historians do so. Meanwhile, there continues to be a lot of archaeological and historical confirmation of the Gospels’ historical trustworthiness:
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Pearce’s Potshots #64: Archaeology & 1st Century Nazareth [2-25-22]

Ehrman Errors #11: Luke the Unreliable Historian? (Debunking Yet More of the Endless Pseudo-“Contradictions” Supposedly All Over the Bible) [3-28-22]

King Herod Agrippa I (d. 44 AD) Eaten By Worms: Pure Myth & Nonsense or Scientifically Plausible? [Facebook, 10-8-22]

41 Who Wrote the Gospels?
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How do we know the apostle Mark wrote the gospel of Mark? How do we know Mark recorded the observations of Peter, an eyewitness?

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43 The Crucifixion
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Here, Bob delves into deep waters of Christian soteriology (the theology of salvation): talking off the top of his head. There is no point in wrangling with him about such matters. He doesn’t even understand the elementary things of Christianity. He could no more grasp this than a two-year-old could comprehend calculus or the theory of relativity. As Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 2:14: “The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”
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44 Finding Jesus Through Board Games
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This is scarcely an argument. It’s basically a totally subjective, biased thought experiment. It carries no force or challenge, and so it need not be replied to.
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45 Jesus on Trial
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This is no argument, either. Rather, it is a plea for folks to remain open-minded and open to a change of mind. As one who has undergone many major changes of mind in my life: in religion, morals, political positions, and other matters, I completely agree!
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49 Religions Continue to Diverge
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This gist of this is that “religious folks disagree, therefore, no single religious view can possibly be true, or even largely true.” This is “epistemological kindergarten” thinking, and as such, deserves no further attention.
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50 The Great Commission
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Here, Bob preaches to Christians, authoritatively interprets several biblical injunctions, and suggests we be more like atheists. Not an argument . . .
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Photo credit: cover of Bob Seidensticker’s 2-Minute Christianity: 50 Big Ideas Every Christian Should Understand [Amazon book page]

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Summary: I provide answers to atheist anti-theist Bob Seidensticker’s “2-Minute” anti-Christian arguments: neatly compiled into fifty two-page provocative, polemical queries.

 

 

2024-01-02T11:45:16-04:00

Reply to Atheist “Lex Lata”

This is a reply to a guest article on Jonathan MS Pearce’s atheist blog, by “Lex Lata”: a sharp and fairly civil atheist commentator (a professor?), with whom I have had some stimulating dialogue now and then. It’s entitled, “A study in straw: Apologetics, alphabets, and the Torah” (11-30-22). His words will be in blue.

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The prevailing consensus among modern scholars of the Bible and Semitic philology (the study of structure and history of languages) is that the Torah—or Pentateuch, if Greek is your cuppa—was largely composed or compiled in its present form during the first millennium BCE. 

“Composed” and “compiled” are two different things. The latter allows for the possibility of it having been written in the 13th century BC (the period of Moses), but later edited and translated according to the changes in language, sometime after King David’s reign (c. 1000 BC), when classic Hebrew was formulated. This is what I shall contend. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

This would place it compiled some centuries after the latest period depicted in it. . . .

Our earliest confirmed Old Testament manuscripts are papyrus fragments and scrolls dated to at least a thousand years after the time of Moses, and are written in first-millennium Hebrew with a late first-millennium script. We have zero extant inscriptions, tablets, or papyri of the Torah itself—not even fragmentary—from the second millennium.

It’s interesting that Lex exclusively uses the word “compiled” in the first excerpt above. He’s being very cautious and “academically nuanced.” Compilations, later editions, manuscripts, etc. are always relevant factors for ancient works: especially those that rely heavily or solely on oral traditions at their onset. This is nothing novel at all, even for biblical books (which can possibly undergo revision like any other books). If we compare the pentateuch or Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) to secular works, this is readily apparent.

The oldest extant manuscript for the Histories of the Greek historian Herodotus (c. 484 – c. 425 BC), for example, is Codex Laurentianus LXX, from the 10th century (see more information on his manuscripts). By my math that is 1300-1500 years after it was written. The History of the Peloponnesian War was written at the end of the 5th century BC by Thucydides (c. 460 – c. 400 BC). The earliest manuscript for it dates from the 11th century (1400-1500 years later). The Geography by Strabo (c. 64 BC – c. 24 AD) was composed shortly before the birth of Christ. The best manuscript is from the end of the tenth century (900-1,000 years later).

I think readers get the idea, without need of further examples. The moral of the story is: “don’t try to make out that biblical manuscripts or editorial / linguistic revisions, etc., are something wholly unique, or uniquely problematic.” Lex clearly exhibits his bias in his next sentence:

Yet certain advocates of an orthodox or fundagelical bent cling to the tradition that Moses himself wrote the first five books of the Bible, ca. 1450-1250 BCE. 

In other words (reading in-between the lines), “some fanatical, irrationally religious folks [complete with a derogatory term for them] ‘cling’ to the antiquated, thoroughly refuted notion that Moses actually wrote the pentateuch.” Following his line of reasoning, this appears to mean that Lex rules out as a virtual impossibility the scenario whereby Moses wrote the books, which were then subject to revision in later centuries (mostly due to evolving language). But it’s not impossible at all. Compilations and revisions do not change the fact that a human being or collection of people originally wrote what is being edited.

My own proposed dates for the life of Moses, by the way, that I utilize in my upcoming book, The Word Set in Stone: How Science, History, and Archaeology Prove Biblical Truth (Catholic Answers Press,  2023) are c. 1340 or 1330 B.C.-c. 1220 or 1210 B.C. (extrapolating from Egyptologist Kitchen A. Kitchen’s date for the Exodus: c. 1260-1250 BC). Some Christians (mostly Protestant) follow a chronology which is about two centuries earlier than the one I follow, and which most Christian archaeologists espouse.

Lex then goes into the analysis which forms the main thrust of his article: Christian apologists often assert a straw-man argument which is a protest against academics who have supposedly argued in recent times that Moses couldn’t have written these books because the precursors of Hebrew did not exist, and (in some instances) they claim he was also illiterate, etc. These were arguments that have indeed been made, but almost always a long time ago (18th-19th centuries), by the infallible, oh-so-intellectually-superior “higher critics”.

Christian apologetics does have a bad habit of “being stuck in the past” too often, and fighting against skeptical positions that have long since been modified or refined (but to be fair, it’s also true that skeptic-types often take many decades to admit that they were wrong about anything). I know, because I’ve been part of this community for forty years, both in evangelical and Catholic environments. Lex makes a big fuss about this:

most scholars across the spectrum of belief—Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, None, etc.—doubt Mosaic authorship for numerous other reasons that have nothing to do with any supposed absence of an adequate script.

Lex then provides what he thinks is an example of this error, citing Sean McDowell, son of the famous Protestant apologist Josh McDowell:

Let us look at a few such examples from the apologetics community. Sean McDowell states in this recent clip, “As an apologist, I’ve heard sometimes that there was not even an alphabet during the time of Moses, so he couldn’t have written the first five books of the Bible.”  

Now look closely at what he stated (with the aid of my added italics and bolding). He simply said that he has “heard sometimes” this notion that the Hebrew alphabet didn’t yet exist. He didn’t claim it was even scholars saying this (and there is no further context to determine more precisely what he was referring to). Therefore, his reference could apply to any atheist or skeptical, theologically liberal Tom, Dick, or Harry: not solely the academic eggheads. Yet Lex later in his article makes a big deal about the scarcity of present skeptical scholars asserting this sort of thing. His example is scarcely even relevant to his overall argumentation. Hence, it turns out that he trots out a straw man, in his indignation about too many straw men in apologetics. The irony, if I do say so, is quite delicious and comical.

His next reference, from Scott Stripling of the Associates for Biblical Research, is much more to the point, since Scott mentioned “Our friends from the other side of the academic aisle . . .” Here, Lex has a valid point. If Dr. Stripling claims there are such opinions among academics, I fully agree, he ought to document them. Perhaps he did in the 57-minute video clip that Lex linked to. I don’t have time to spend an hour listening to that, to find out. If he didn’t, Lex’s gripe is valid in his case. And a third example he provides is of this second type. He complains:

We’re not even given names. Who are these “skeptics,” these “friends” from liberal academia, these “some” scholars? It’s a mystery.

Again, I agree. They should be named. These men could have brought up a guy like Bart Ehrman: the famous anti-theist atheist, who is indeed an academic: in the Dept. of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He is so clueless that he stated the following, three days before the time of this writing:

One [“problem”] involves a reality that ancient Christians may not have taken into account, but that scholars today are keenly aware of.  Most of the apostles were illiterate and could not in fact write. They could not have left an authoritative writing if their soul depended on it. (“Writing Forgeries to Show the Truth,” The Bart Ehrman Blog, 12-10-22)

Ehrman doesn’t even think that Jesus could read and write:

Could Jesus Read? Probably Not [sub-heading] My strong sense is that Jesus could not write. . . .  I am slightly inclined to the view that Jesus could read. (“Could Jesus Read?,” The Bart Ehrman Blog, 4-20-21; bolding and italics in the original)

The next question from the atheist at this juncture would be: “what does Ehrman think about Moses’ literacy?”  Ehrman doesn’t know, so he tells us:

Let’s find out a bit more about Moses. As you may have noticed, on a number of occasions I get asked questions that I simply can’t answer.  I received one such question this week, about the history of the Hebrew language.  Here is how the questioner phrased it:

What is our earliest evidence for Hebrew as a written language? I’ve been to apologetic seminars where they say it’s long been said by atheists that the Hebrew Bible can’t be trusted because the Hebrews didn’t have a written language until well after the stories in the OT would’ve taken place. . . .

It’s actually amazing how many topics I’m not familiar with at all!  So, not knowing the answer, I asked a colleague of mine who is an expert in Hebrew philology, [who provided Ehrman with a nuanced explanation of evolving language, similar to my own beliefs: “It depends on what you define as Hebrew,” etc.] . . .

When Ehrman asked his colleague the question, he wrote:

Someone has asked me the question below.  Damn if I know!

Ehrman then asked his friend a “follow-up” question:

The questioner was not a scholar, but an interested lay person, who was especially interested in the question of whether, if there was a Moses living in say the 13th c BCE, he would have been able to write.  Do you have an opinion?  (I myself  don’t think there *was* a Moses, but still,  assuming there was…) (“Could Moses Write Hebrew & What Language Could Moses Speak?,” The Bart Ehrman Blog, 8-25-17)

So there you have it: a present-day, widely-known atheist NT scholar, who denies that Moses existed, but thinks that if he did, he himself — remember, a widely published religious studies professor — can’t figure out whether he would have been able to read or write, or whether any form of “Hebrew” existed in his time. I used his example in my upcoming book. Lex wants names? I gave him one.

Then Ehrman cited his friend across the hall: Joseph Lam, who is Associate Professor in the Dept. of Religious Studies at the same college (see his curriculum vitae):

The texts of the Pentateuch, whoever wrote them, are NOT in the 13th-century language; they are in classical 1st millennium Hebrew. Whatever a hypothetical 13th century Moses wrote, whether, in Egyptian or Canaanite or something else, that’s NOT what we have preserved in the Pentateuch.

This gets to the crux of the issue! Rather than dealing with crackpot blowhards like Ehrman, we can sensibly, constructively discuss this serious issue, whatever our own beliefs are: how do we get to the classic Hebrew text of the Torah that we have, and explain the process by which Moses supposedly wrote the initial text, which was revised over time to a type of Hebrew that developed long after his death?” There is a way to preserve Mosaic authorship, while acknowledging an editorial and linguistic development. Egyptologist Kenneth A. Kitchen sums up this position:

The recently invented West Semitic alphabet [was] a vehicle deigned by and for Semitic speakers (and writers). The oldest known examples have been the Lachish dagger epigraph from a seventeenth-century tomb and the Tell Nagila sherd (Middle/Late Bronze, ca. 1600); we now have also the Wadi Hol graffiti in Egypt from northwest of Thebes, about the seventeenth century. . . . To these must be added the proto-Sinaitic inscriptions of disputed date—circa 1800 or circa 1500. This system of not more than thirty simple, semipictographic letters would have been very easy to use in writing up (on papyrus) a “first written edition” of the patriarchal traditions from Abraham to Jacob, to which a Joseph account could be added. This set of basic narratives could then be recopied from circa 1600 to the thirteenth century, then given a “late Canaanite” editing in that phase of the script, eventuating into early standard Hebrew language and script from the united monarchy [c. 1000 B.C.] onward. . . . This straightforward view is at least consistent with all the factual data that we currently possess, and keeps theorizing to a minimum. (On the Reliability of the Old Testament [Grand Rapids, Michigan and Cambridge: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2003], 370-371)

From the fourteenth/thirteenth century onward, the [Canaanite] alphabet could be freely used for any form of communication. The contemporary north Semitic texts found at Ugarit in north Phoenicia illustrate this to perfection. . . . The Amarna evidence [c. 1360-1332 B.C.] and handful of pottery finds prove clearly that Canaanite was the dominant local tongue and could be readily expressed in alphabetic writing. . . . During the two centuries that followed, circa 1200-1000, standard Hebrew evolved out of this form of Canaanite, probably being fully formed by David’s time. Copies of older works such as Deuteronomy or Joshua would be recopied, modernizing outdated grammatical forms and spellings, . . . (Ibid., 304-305)

Lex then goes on to what is, in effect “Part 2” of his article:

So if the existence of writing is not a problem, why does the modern consensus reject the traditional assumption that Moses himself wrote the Torah? The reasons are legion, and would—indeed, do—fill copious books and articles far longer than this article, as many readers here know. But perhaps a few key factors warrant mentioning. (What follows is by no means exhaustive.)

I know the feeling. Below, I will provide 50 reasons why we think a Mosaic authorship in the 13th century BC is suggested. The skeptics think they have their multitudinous reasons justifying their views. So do we. It’s just that very few ever seem to learn about ours, and our beloved skeptics are usually quite unfamiliar with them (hence, rarely interact with them). Maybe Lex will be the exception to the rule, if he ever reads this.

The Torah’s description of the Ancient Near East aligns far better with the perspective and archaeology of the first millennium BCE than the second. Certain elements of the narrative likely have their roots in events of the Bronze Age Collapse of the late second millennium, but numerous place names, peoples, geographical features, and other data “are most closely associated with the Saite and Persian periods, or about the seventh to fifth centuries BCE.”  (Lester L. Grabbe, Ancient Israel: What Do We Know and How Do We Know It? (2017), p. 97.)

What I will provide below will be expressly contradictory to this outlook. Lex and others can and may interact with it if they so choose. But if my long experience attempting serious discussions with atheists (both online and in person) is any indication, no one will. But I’d never be more pleased to be wrong.

The books of the Torah contain several statements that make little sense coming from MosesFor example, the early story of Abram/Abraham tells us the Canaanites were still then in the land west of the Jordan (Genesis 12:6, 13:7), suggesting a date of composition after the Canaanites were displaced or replaced by the Israelites—in other words, years after the death of Moses.

This would be precisely the sort of thing that would have been a clarifying small addition later on. I have addressed several of those in my voluminous writings on alleged biblical contradictions (which I hope to make into my next book). In these cases, we agree: Moses didn’t write them.

Deuteronomy 1:1 depicts Moses speaking to the Israelites beyond (on the other/east side of) the River Jordan, a word choice indicating the author was writing from the west side, on which we’re told Moses never set foot.

This doesn’t prove that Moses wrote from west of the River Jordan, only that terminology is used that was later common: “beyond the Jordan.” That is, Moses was addressing folks east of the river, where he was: in the area that later was referred to as “beyond the Jordan”. See my previous response.

Deuteronomy 34 describes the death and interment of Moses, obviously a difficult passage for a deceased man to compose, no matter how well-educated he was at the Egyptian court. 

This is typical, garden variety, intended “gotcha!” polemics from atheists. And the logical answer is that Joshua, Moses’ successor, wrote the obituary. Moreover, Lex assumes that Deuteronomy 34 makes statements suggesting that Moses was its author (hence, the basis for his mockery). It does not. The book of Deuteronomy starts out (1:1) by proclaiming: “These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel beyond the Jordan in the wilderness, in the Arabah over against Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Haze’roth, and Di’-zahab.” Deuteronomy 34 is not Moses speaking to “all Israel.” It’s someone else describing his death and the circumstances leading up to it. It’s an obituary or memorial. Likewise, in the book of Jeremiah, at the end of chapter 51 (51:62), it states: “Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.” But the book has one more chapter.

Moreover, it’s impossible to overlook the brute grammatical reality that the Torah refers consistently to Moses in the third person, not the first.

So what? Julius Caesar did the same in the Gallic Wars. So did Thucydides in his History of the Peloponnesian War, where he wrote: “Thucydides, an Athenian, wrote the history of the war . . .”, and in 4.104.4: “The opponents of the betrayers . . . sent to the other commander of the areas in Thrace, Thucydides, son of Olorus . . .” Roman Jewish historian Josephus wrote in his work, The Jewish War: “John, son of Ananias, was appointed commander of Gophna and Acrabetta, and Josephus, son of Matthias, of each of the two Galilees” (2.568).

It’s also very common in the Bible. In the book of Jeremiah, both first person and third are used (I cite RSV):

First Person

Jeremiah 1:11 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, “Jeremiah, what do you see?”  . . . (cf. 1:12-14)

2:1 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,  (cf. 13:3, 8; 16:1; 18:5; 24:4)

24:3 And the LORD said to me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?” . . .

Third Person

Jeremiah 7:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD: (cf. 11:1; 18:1; 21:1; 25:1-2; 27:1; 28:12; 30:1; 33:1)

14:1 The word of the LORD which came to Jeremiah concerning the drought:

19:14 Then Jeremiah came from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy, and he stood in the court of the LORD’s house, and said to all the people: (cf. 20:1-3)

26:7 The priests and the prophets and all the people heard Jeremiah speaking these words in the house of the LORD.

And so on and so forth . . . Both forms occur in Ezekiel in the space of four verses (1st person, then 3rd person, then back to 1st):

Ezekiel 1:1 In the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the exiles by the river Chebar, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Ezekiel 1:3 the word of the LORD came to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chalde’ans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there.

Ezekiel 1:4 As I looked, behold, a stormy wind came out of the north, . . .

The book of Ezra switches suddenly to first person, from its usual third person perspective; for example: Ezra 7:28; 8:1, 15-16; 9:1, 3-4.

Jesus frequently talks about Himself in the third person, such as when He refers to the “Son of Man” (which is a messianic title) and refers in context to this person (Himself) as “he” or “his”. “Son of Man” appears 82 times in the Gospels, so this is not an uncommon occurrence.

Matthew 9:6 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” — he then said to the paralytic — “Rise, take up your bed and go home.”

Matthew 17:22 As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of man is to be delivered into the hands of men,”

Matthew 20:28 “even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Matthew 26:2 “You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of man will be delivered up to be crucified.”

Luke 7:34 “The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, `Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

Luke 9:58 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man has nowhere to lay his head.”

Luke 22:48 but Jesus said to him, “Judas, would you betray the Son of man with a kiss?”

John 9:35-37 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, “Do you believe in the Son of man?” [36] He answered, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” [37] Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.”

All of this shows that merely noting that Moses is referred to in the third person in the Torah is no unassailable argument against his authorship.

few passages in the Torah depict Moses writing specific things down, but thePentateuch never claims divine or Mosaic authorship.”  The books of the Torah are broadly anonymous on their face. The tradition of Mosaic authorship appears to be an extrinsic phenomenon that likely developed in ancient Hebrew culture during the middle or last half of the first millennium BCE.

Let me take the first of two separate claims first: does the Pentateuch “never” claim divine authorship (i.e., never assert that it is inspired revelation)? This is massively false, and it’s another notorious instance of the dumbest thing anyone can ever do in an argument (don’t do it!): assert a “universal negative.”

In Exodus, the phrase “The LORD said” appears 62 times. 54 of those times, it’s followed by “to Moses.” In Leviticus it’s even more clear: “The LORD said” appears 34 times, and every time it’s followed by “to Moses.” In Numbers, the same two figures are 72 and 64. In Deuteronomy, “The LORD said” appears 18 times, and “The LORD said to Moses” three times. But, “The LORD said to me” appears 14 times. And guess who is the “me” every time? You got it: Moses. That leaves one more instance of “the LORD” talking to someone in Deuteronomy: “And the LORD said to him, . . . ” (34:4). In context (34:1, 5-8), this, too, is directed to Moses.

From the textual facts we learn that these books claim to be inspired. Revelation is God’s communication to mankind. So “the LORD said” is a clear indication of this inspired revelation. The phrase occurs 186 times in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy combined. 170 of those instances (or 91%) are directed towards Moses. Therefore, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to conclude that these books:

1) claim to be inspired,

and

2) claim to be communicated from God to us primarily by one man, who is relentlessly identified as its author and/or messenger: Moses.

So where does Lex get off claiming that “the Pentateuch never claims divine authorship”? What kind of convoluted, discombobulated “reasoning” is this? Whether one believes in the text or not, it clearly asserts certain things; and these books claim to be (at least 186 times) revelation from God, passed through Moses.

There are additional sorts of arguments within the Bible for Mosaic authorship (remember, Lex’s claim — agreeing with a link title, was, “the Pentateuch never claims . . . Mosaic authorship”):

Exodus 24:3-4 Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice, and said, “All the words which the LORD has spoken we will do.” [4] And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. . . .

Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said to Moses, “Write these words; in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

Numbers 33:1-2 These are the stages of the people of Israel, when they went forth out of the land of Egypt by their hosts under the leadership of Moses and Aaron. [2] Moses wrote down their starting places, stage by stage, by command of the LORD; and these are their stages according to their starting places.

Deuteronomy 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and gave it to the priests the sons of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and to all the elders of Israel.

Deuteronomy 31:22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it to the people of Israel.

Baruch 2:28 as thou didst speak by thy servant Moses on the day when thou didst command him to write thy law in the presence of the people of Israel, . . .

Mark 10:3-5 He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” [4] They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away.” [5] But Jesus said to them, “For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.

The phrase, “law of Moses” appears 14 times in the Old Testament books agreed to by all Christians. “written in the book of the law of Moses” occurs three times in these books. Nehemiah 8:1 states: “. . . they told Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the LORD had given to Israel.” “Law of Moses” appears eight times in the New Testament, including two direct references from Jesus (Lk 24:44; Jn 7:23). The word “Moses” appears 80 times in the NT: many of these casually assuming that he wrote the books that are being cited or otherwise referred to as being written by him:

Matthew 8:4 And Jesus said to him, “. . . offer the gift that Moses commanded, . . .”

Matthew 19:7-8 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” [8] He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

Mark 1:44 and [Jesus] said to him, “See that you say nothing to any one; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, for a proof to the people.” (cf. Lk 5:14)

Mark 12:26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?

Luke 20:37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.

Luke 24:27, 44 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. [44] Then he said to them, “These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled.”

John 1:45 Philip found Nathan’a-el, and said to him, “We have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

John 5:46-47 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. [47] But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

John 7:19, 23 Did not Moses give you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?” . . . [23] . . . so that the law of Moses may not be broken . . .

Acts 7:44 “Our fathers had the tent of witness in the wilderness, even as he who spoke to Moses directed him to make it, according to the pattern that he had seen.

Acts 26:22 . . . I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass:

Hebrews 9:19 . . . every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people . . .

Additional biblical evidence:

Joshua 1:7-8 . . . being careful to do according to all the law which Moses my servant commanded you; . . .  [8] This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth, . . .

2 Kings 21:8 “. . . if only they will be careful to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.”

Malachi 4:4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the statutes and ordinances that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel.”

It seems like there is not a single passage in the Bible which claims that the pentateuch was written by anyone but Moses. At any rate, I have not seen such a verse, to my knowledge (after 45 years of intense Bible study and apologetics). If anyone finds such a passage, please let me know.

Suffice it to say that practicing scholars explore any number of serious archaeological, geographical, historical, literary, paleographical, and philological reasons to think that the Torah as we know it is a comparatively late product of a complicated developmental process. 

Great. Two can play at that game. So here are 50 external reasons from archaeology and history for why traditional Christians and scholars in general who maintain an open mind, believe that Moses originally wrote the lion’s share of the Pentateuch in the 13th century BC:

1) Third Millennium BC Egyptian Tabernacle Parallels: Kitchen (ibid., 275) noted that biblical skeptics and minimalistic archaeologists have long since decreed that “the tabernacle is an exilic or postexilic figment of the imagination of Jewish priests (ca. sixth to fourth centuries B.C.), seeking to glorify their cult . . . by projecting a ‘tented’ form of Solomon’s temple back to the time of Moses . . .” He then proceeded to discuss “clear analogues from earlier epochs, and in particular before the Hebrew monarchy” (p. 276). In the 1920s, the tomb of Queen Hetepheres, mother of Khufu, builder of the Great Pyramid (c. 2600 BC), yielded a “secular tabernacle” with a gold covered wooden framework, fitted together with tenon and socket joints, with vertical and horizontal beams or poles, corners with special fitments (Ex 26:23), draped with curtains. In the shaft down to her tomb, a more religious similar structure was found, with limestone socket-bases (cf. silver bases in the biblical tabernacle: Ex 26:19-25). Four different Egyptian tombs, c. 2500 BC. yielded large tents with poles linked by horizontal rods along the top (cf. Ex 26:26-28). Kitchen concluded: “Thus, in Egypt, most of the biblical tabernacle’s technology was literally ‘as old as the Pyramids,’ . . . a thousand years before even a Moses, never mind exilic priests” (p. 276). So much for this skeptical myth . . .

2) Mari [Syrian] Tabernacle Parallels: texts dated 18th-17th century BC (four or five centuries before Moses) describe “tents or ‘tabernacles’ borne on wooden frames, using the same term (but in form qersu) as the Hebrew qerahim, ‘frames'” (Kitchen, p. 277). The texts refer to 43 men needed to transport these portable tents, with its cover, frames, bases (cf. Ex 26:18-25), and seeming units of latticework, perhaps to form an enclosure, as in the Bible (Ex 27:9-10). One of the texts also references sacrifices of an ass within this tent.

3) Ugaritic [Syrian] Tabernacle Parallels: from the 13th century BC, but with archaic language hearkening back to much earlier times, discovered tablets describe the supreme god El dwelling in a tent “(qershu), using the same term as found at Mari and Exodus” (Kitchen, p. 277). “Tents” and “tabernacles” are described “using the words ahl and mishkan(atu) in parallel, precisely as in Hebrew . . . contemporary at latest . . . with our Sinai tabernacle” (p. 277).

4) No Mesopotamian Tabernacle Parallels: “Father east, by contrast, Mesopotamia proper (Assyria and Babylonia) shows almost no use at all of such tents/tabernacles, at any period” (Kitchen, ibid., p. 277).

5) Second Millennium BC Egyptian (Striking!) Tabernacle Parallels:

Tuthmosis III (cs. 1479-1425) built . . . at Karnak temple what was a translation into stone of a pillared tent. Throughout the New Kingdom, but famously illustrated by the finds in the tomb of Tutankhamun (ca. 1336-1327), the pharaohs had concentric tabernacle-like shrines nested over their coffins, like huge wooden “boxes,” gold-plated, dismountable, and fitted together with tenons in sockets like the Hebrew tabernacle . . . faded linen decorated with gilded bronze rosettes . . . (Kitchen, ibid., p. 278)

Pharaoh Ramesses II (c. 1275 BC) had a rectangular tent divided in two parts (like the biblical tabernacle). The smaller inner room had figures of divine falcons facing each other and shadowing the royal name with their wings, as the cherubim did in the biblical tabernacle (Ex 25:20, 22; Num 7:89; eight others). “The concept of an empty sacred throne for a present but invisible deity was already current long since in Egypt” (Kitchen, p. 280).

6) First Millennium Assyrian Camps Not Analogous to the Tabernacle: these were “regularly  round or oval” (Kitchen, ibid., p. 278)

7) Tutankhamun’s Tomb Very Similar to the Ark of the Covenant: “[T]he ark of the covenant (Exod. 25:10-22; 37:1-9) . . . was essentially a gilded box on four feet, with four rings (two each side) to take two carrying poles. The arrangement is identical to that of a famous box from Tutankhamun’s tomb [c. 1336-1327], with just such rings and poles” (Kitchen, ibid., p. 280)

8) Silver Trumpets of Numbers 10:1-10:

In contrast to the curly ram’s-horn shofar, the silver trumpets (hasoseroth) were long tubes with flared mouths. These too were in type and use characteristic of New Kingdom Egypt. From Tutankhamun’s tomb (again!) we have two such trumpets, one of silver, one of copper or bronze overlaid with gold. Such instruments are commonly shown in scenes, used exactly in the functions decreed in Num. 10. (Kitchen, p. 280)

9) Tabernacle Workers Parallels: inside the biblical tabernacle’s sanctuary priests alone served; in the outer court the Levites worked (Num 18:1-7; cf. 3:7-10). This was the case at Hittite temples in the 14th and 13th centuries. Punishments were also analogous in Hatti, Israel, and Egypt during this period. (see Kitchen, p. 280)

10) Tabernacle Consecration Rituals: Exodus 20 and Leviticus 8-9 describe these rituals, lasting seven days, for appointing the high priest (originally Aaron, Moses’ brother) and other priests. These were formerly claimed (and maybe still: who knows?) to have originated from the postexilic period (6th c. BC or later), because parallels had not been found. Now that has changed. Findings at Emar: another present-day Syrian site, from the 1970s, revealed elaborate nine-day rites which included anointing with oil (cf. Lev 8:2, 12, 30). Also, the Hittite ritual of Ulippi for inducting a deity into a new shrine shows strong similarities, and lasted six or seven days. (Kitchen, pp. 280-281)

11) Animal Sacrifices Atoning for Human Sin: this can be found in Hittite rites in the 14th-13th centuries BC. (see Kitchen, p. 281)

12) Graded / Differential Offerings: this was common in Hittite and Emar offerings  in the Late Bronze Age, compete with the disdain for blemished offerings: both aspects very familiar from the Bible. (see Kitchen, p. 282)

13) Seven-Year Cycles / Year of Jubilee (Lev 25): this is found in surrounding cultures from the early second millennium BC. The zukru festival at Emar was every seven years, with preparatory rites in the sixth.  (see Kitchen, p. 282)

14) Mosaic Law: Especially in Deuteronomy (Hittite Parallels: 1380-1180 BC):

Sinai and its two renewals — especially the version in Deuteronomy — belong squarely . . . within 1400-1200 [BC], and no other date. The impartial and very extensive evidence (thirty Hittite-inspired documents and versions!) sets this matter beyond any further dispute. It is not my creation, it is inherent in the mass of original documents themselves, and so cannot be gainsaid, if the brute facts are to be respected. (Kitchen, pp. 287-288)

There can be no further squirming and wriggling away from the facts; old subterfuges must be discarded. . . . The Sinai documents have an indubitably fourteenth/thirteenth century format . . . (Ibid., p. 289)

The whole matter of treaty and covenant goes back most of half a century to a pair of seminal articles by G. E. Mendenhall published in the Biblical Archaeologist in 1954. There he pointed out the clear congruences between the format of the Hittite corpus of treaties and part of Exodus plus Josh. 24, suggesting that the Sinai covenant might well have had thirteenth-century roots. . . . However, this whole development was not acceptable to the “old guard”: in biblical studies, for whom a nineteenth-century belief in a late “law” (sixth/fifth centuries), after the prophets, and 621 as the definitive date of Deuteronomy were absolute dogmas to be fanatically defended, even at the cost of facts to their contrary. . . .

The “formulation of the Hittite treaties” is unique to the period between 1400 and 1200 (more exactly, ca. 1380-1180), precisely because the body of known documents from before 1400 is radically different in format — and so is the more limited group of documents from circa 900-650. And factually, that is the end of the matter. (Ibid., p. 289-290)

15) Prologues of Treaties:

The stark fact remains, that out of eighty or more documents, all known prologues (historical and otherwise) precede the twelfth century, and none is attested in the first millennium. . . . Biblicists must stop evading the clear mass of evidence, and face up to the facts as they are. (Kitchen, p. 291)

16) Ancient Pedigree of Deuteronomic Curses: it has been argued by the skeptics and minimalists that the curses in Deuteronomy derived from Neo-Assyrian treaties of the seventh century BC. But this tradition was widely in existence for almost two thousand years  before the seventh century. (Kitchen, p. 291) “forty correlations with earlier periods (thirty before 1200)” . . . (Kitchen, p. 294)

17) Bonds and Oaths in Treaties: in late second-millennium documents and not in the first millennium, a “bond” was referred to “only before the oath element of blessings and curses, and then the joint expression of bond and oath after that feature (so in Deut. 29:12, 14, English text; Heb. is 29:11, 13); this could not be reinvented six hundred years later without its cultural context.” (Kitchen, p. 294)

18) The Term “People for His Own Possession” [RSV] in Deuteronomy (4:20; 7:6; 14:2; 26:18):

The term segulla, “especial treasure,” . . . is not some special, late term coined by seventh-century “Deuteronomists,” but is common coin throughout the Semitic world from the early second millennium onward. Old Babylonian examples (Akkad, sikiltu) occur in the laws of Hammurabi and at Alalakh (eighteenth century), and at Nuzi in the fifteenth century. It recurs (as sglt) at Ugarit in the thirteenth century, and occasionally thereafter. These usages are old, not late, and do not depend on strictly Hebraic “Deuteronomism,” be it real or illusory. (Kitchen, p. 294)

19) Egyptian Treaties with the Hittites: Kitchen notes how Pharaohs Sethos I (r. c. 1294-1279 B.C.) and Ramesses II (r. 1279-1213 B.C.) signed treaties with Hittite kings and that “scribes at both courts produced drafts to be exchanged for mutual approval or amendment”—which would in turn “explain how a Hebrew leader might later come to use this convenient and appropriate framework for the Sinai covenant.” (Kitchen, pp. 297-298)

20) Seasons in the Torah: these are Egyptian and not Palestinian; for example, the reference to crop sequence in Exodus 9:31-32: “(The flax and the barley were ruined, for the barley was in the ear and the flax was in bud. But the wheat and the spelt were not ruined, for they are late in coming up.)” (See, Gleason L. Archer, Jr., A Survey of Old Testament Introduction [Chicago: Moody Press, 1964], p. 105)

21) Non-Palestinian Acacia Tree in the Torah: the acacia tree is indigenous to Egypt and Sinai, but not Palestine. It’s a desert tree, used for tabernacle furniture (see 27 examples in the pentateuch). (see Archer, ibid., p. 105)

22) Non-Palestinian Geographical Terms and Descriptions: In Genesis 13:10, the “Jordan valley” was described as “like the land of Egypt, in the direction of Zo’ar.” In Genesis 23:2, Hebron is called by its Canaanite name, “Kir’iath-ar’ba (that is, Hebron).” Numbers 13:22 states: “Hebron was built seven years before Zo’an in Egypt.” Passages like these show a familiarity with Egyptian geography and events. (see Archer, p. 106)

23) Children By Handmaidens: “Notably in the legal documents discovered at Nuzi and dating from the fifteenth century we discover references top the custom of begetting legitimate children by handmaidens (as Abraham did with Hagar).” (Archer, p. 107)

24) Definite Article in Hebrew: it has been objected that the definite article would not have been used in Moses’ time. But it was precisely during the 18th Dynasty of Egypt (1550-1292 BC) that the definite article appeared, and the Torah exhibits a full-fledged use. (see Archer, pp. 107-108)

25) “Ishmaelites coming from Gilead, with their camels bearing gum, balm, and myrrh” (Gen 37:25): “gum” (tragacanth) and “the balm of Gilead” are acknowledged in secular science today as substances from ancient Israel or Palestine, including Gilead (modern-day Jordan), precisely as the Bible accurately states. The “balm of Gilead grew only around the Dead Sea Basin in ancient times. Archaeological and historiographical evidence massively shows that trade routes for at least myrrh (and likely also balm of Gilead and tragacanth) were long established by the time of Joseph (the larger passage referred to his being sold into slavery).

26) Price of Slaves: Kenneth A. Kitchen contends that we know from “ancient Near Eastern sources” the price of slaves in that region in significant detail, from 2400 B.C. to 400 B.C., and that we know “from the Laws of Hammurabi and documents from Mari and elsewhere” that the price was twenty shekels: precisely as the Bible states. I maintain, based on Kitchen’s extraordinary multi-faceted scholarship, that Joseph lived in the eighteenth century B.C., so these sources perfectly corroborate the biblical view, since they derive from the nineteenth and eighteenth centuries B.C. Kitchen goes on to note that Exodus 21:32 (in the Mosaic Law) required a payment of “thirty shekels” to a slave owner “if someone else’s ox gores the slave to death.” Sure enough, this was the price of slaves in the fourteenth and thirteenth centuries, when Moses lived. Kitchen concluded by asking a pointed question, in effect towards biblical skeptics:

If all these figures were invented during the Exile (sixth century B.C.) or in the Persian period by some fiction writer, why isn’t the price for Joseph 90 to 100 shekels, the cost of a slave at the time when that story was supposedly written? And why isn’t the price in Exodus also 90 to 100 shekels? It’s more reasonable to assume that the biblical data reflect reality in these cases. (“The Patriarchal Age: Myth or History?”, Biblical Archaeology Review 21:02, March/April 1995)

27) Famine Mentioned in Genesis: Another aspect of the story of Joseph that can be verified or questioned by means of archaeology and historical research is the alleged famine in Israel during the times of both Abraham and Joseph (Gen 12:10; 26:1-2; 42:5; 43:1 and the contrasting abundance of food in Egypt (Gen 12:10; 41:57; 42:1-2; 47:12), though, Egypt, too, suffered to a relatively lesser degree (Gen 47:13). Archaeologist James Hoffmeier noted that this lines up with what we know regarding Egypt, Canaan, and famine, as well as
migratory patterns:

For a period roughly from 1800 to 1540 B.C., Egypt was an attractive place for the Semitic-speaking people of western Asia to migrate. . . . This span of time coincides with the traditional “Patriarchal Period” and therefore fits the period and circumstances described in Genesis when Abraham, Isaac (almost), and Jacob went to Egypt in search of food, water, and green pastures. (James K. Hoffmeier, Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition [Oxford University Press, 1996], p. 68)

28) Joseph the “Overseer”: Genesis 39:4 informs us that Joseph was an “overseer” of the house of Potiphar (39:1), a high-ranking official under the Pharaoh. Hoffmeier backs up the existence of such an office at that time:

Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446 [dated 1809-1743 B.C.] lists the Semitic names of dozens of male and female servants attached to a particular estate. The third column from the right on the papyrus contains their trade or occupation. Interestingly, a number of these servants are identified as hry-pr, literally, “he who is over the house,” which is translated “domestic servant.” (Ibid., p. 84)

29) Egyptian Names in the Joseph Story: The names in question are Potiphar, Joseph’s master (Gen. 39:1), his wife Asenath and father-in-law Potipherah, and Zaphenath-paneah, Joseph’s Egyptian name, given to him by the Pharaoh (41:45). Hoffmeier stated about these four names: “all agree that they are undeniably Egyptian” (ibid., p. 87). Kitchen believes that the dating of Zaphenath is “Middle Kingdom to early New Kingdom (early to mid-second millennium)” and Asenath also to the Middle Kingdom. (Kitchen, On the Reliability . . . p. 346). This scheme fits into the known time frame for the life of Joseph very nicely.

30) “Pharaoh” vs. “Pharaoh So-and-So”: “Pharaoh” is used by itself many times in Genesis and Exodus. Hoffmeier noted a change in this practice: “In subsequent periods [after 1100 B.C.], the name of the monarch was generally added on. This precise practice is found in the Old Testament . . . after Sheshak (ca. 925 B.C.), the title and name appear together (e.g., Pharaoh Neco, Pharaoh Hophra).” (Hoffmeier, ibid., p. 87)

31) Joseph’s “Investiture” in Egypt:

Genesis 41:41-43 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Behold, I have set you over all the land of Egypt.” [42] Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his hand and put it on Joseph’s hand, and arrayed him in garments of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;

This event is known as Joseph’s investiture. Over forty Egyptian depictions of this sort of investiture ceremony have been discovered, from 1479 to 950 B.C. showing a Pharaoh on a throne, with a prince figure wearing a gold necklace and white linen, and some sort of insignia (seal, staff, ring, etc.) (see Hoffmeier, ibid., pp. 91-92). Hoffmeier noted: “Huy, Viceroy of Cush under Tutankhamun [r. 1333-1323 B.C.] . . . [is shown] receiving a rolled-up linen object along with a gold signet ring.” (ibid., p. 92) Kitchen added: “Of the Egyptian nature of the trappings for royal appointments to high office — linen robe, gold collar, state seal, etc. – there can be no doubt whatever” (Kitchen, On the Reliability . . . p. 478).  It all lines up with the biblical account, in quite striking detail.

32) Egyptian Embalming: Egyptian physicians “embalmed” Jacob (Gen. 50:1-3) and Joseph was “embalmed” and “put in a coffin in Egypt” (Gen. 50:26). Neither practice was known in the land of Canaan during this time or the entire Bronze Age. (see Hoffmeier, ibid., p. 95).

33) Joseph Obtaining High Egyptian Office?: Is it plausible to believe that a Semite or Israelite or Hebrew could have attained such a high office in Egypt as Joseph (and later Moses) did? Isn’t that stretching credulity too far? No; the evidence again corroborates the biblical narrative about Joseph in Egypt. A tomb was discovered in Saqqara (or Sakkara) in the 1980s that included a Semitic man, Aper-el. His titles included
“vizier,” “mayor of the city,” and “judge,” and he served Pharaoh Amenhotep III (r. c. 1387-c. 1350 B.C.) and Pharaoh Akhenaten (r. c. 1350-c. 1335 B.C.) as overseer or Lower Egypt.

34) Sodom Destroyed by a Meteor Blast During Abraham’s Time?: there is hard scientific evidence that this may indeed have been the case. A meteor is thought to have exploded in the air over Sodom and Gomorrah, in c. 1750-1650 BC. Yet more confirmation of biblical accuracy, and the ancient, Mosaic pedigree of the Torah.

35-45) Details of Hebrew Bondage Verified by Archaeology:  in my upcoming book, The Word Set in Stone: How Science, History, and Archaeology Prove Biblical Truth (Catholic Answers Press,  2023). I write about eleven of these:

1) the specific time frame of the city of Ram’eses / Raamses;
2) the specific time frame of the city of Pithom;
3) the name of the city of Pithom;
4) the name of the city of Ram’eses / Raamses;
5) Pithom being made [solely] of [mud] bricks;
6) The function of Pithom as a store-city;
7) The function of Ram’eses as a store-city;
8) Pithom being built (or technically, rebuilt / fortified) at the same time as Ram’eses, during the time of Pharaoh Ramesses II;
9) straw (or chaff) being an important cohesive ingredient in the bricks (bricks without straw were far inferior);
10) A daily quota of brick-making for workers to meet;
11) The extreme difficulty of finding enough straw without the Egyptians providing it for them.

Concerning #5, 9-10:

Egyptians collected top–soil because it had the right composition of clay, silt and sand and formed the hardest and most durable brick. . . . To create bricks capable of bearing the weight of large structures and surviving the elements, straw temper is added. . . .

Two New Kingdom Egyptian sources—a leather scroll from the fifth year of Ramesses II’s reign and Papyrus Anastasi III from the third year of Merneptah’s reign, both from the 13th century—refer to brick making. According to the former, the daily quota was 2,000 mudbricks. . . .

An Egyptian leather scroll in the Louvre, dated to year 5 of the reign of Ramesses II (1275 B.C.E.), relates that 40 stable masters (junior officers) were each responsible for a quota of 2,000 bricks produced by men under them. . . . (Robert J. Littman, Jay Silverstein, and Marta Lorenzon, “With & without straw: How Israelite slaves made bricks,” Biblical Archaeology Review (March 2014); citations from 60-61, 62, and 63)

This daily quota, documented from the time of Pharaoh Ramesses II, is reflected in the biblical texts Exodus 5:8: “number of bricks” and 5:19: “your daily number of bricks.”

46) The Egyptian Plague of Darkness (Ex 10:22-23): This plague has traditionally been associated with desert sandstorms, or khamsins that frequently occur in Egypt in March. These sorts of sandstorms that regularly occur in Egypt between March and May are likely similar to what happened during the famous “Dust Bowl” period in the Great Plains of the United States in the 1930s. One particularly frightening storm took place on what was called on “Black Sunday”: 14 April 1935 in Oklahoma and Texas. A National Weather Service article described it:

[A] mountain of blackness swept across the High Plains and instantly turned a warm, sunny afternoon into a horrible blackness that was darker than the darkest night. . . . a massive wall of blowing dust that resembled a land-based tsunami. Winds in the panhandle reached upwards of 60 MPH, and for at least a brief time, the blackness was so complete that one could not see their own hand in front of their face. (“The Black Sunday Dust Storm of April 14, 1935” [Norman, Oklahoma])

47) The Parting of the Red Sea: Possible Scientific Explanation?: Believe it or not, there is a serious, evidence-based, plausible and possible explanation, published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

48) Moses Drawing Water from a Rock?: We know that sandstone and limestone are porous and can contain water. The Bible refers to “flint” in this regard twice (Deut. 8:15; Ps. 114:8). It could be that this was a reference to it being mixed with limestone or chalk, since this is often how it occurs in nature. Sandstone, shale, and limestone are common in the Sinai Peninsula. Porous sandstone is “widespread in the northern Gulf area.” (see: “Sinai Peninsula: An Overview of Geology and Thermal Groundwater Potentialities”: pages 25-38 of the book by Mohamed Ragaie El Tahlawi, Thermal and Mineral Waters (New York: Springer, 2014).

49) Quails in the Desert:  the Bible informs us that (again, positing a natural event), 1) quails migrate through the Sinai Peninsula, 2) particularly along the coastlines (Exod. 16:1) and 3) they do so in the spring (Exod. 16:1; Num. 10:11; 11:31, 34). Science has confirmed all of this. For example, Kitchen states,

Twice on their travels (down to, and up from, Mount Sinai), the Israelites got involved with migrating quail. . . . It is a fact that quails do migrate via Sinai twice a year. They fly from farther south up to Europe in the spring, going through the Suez and Aqaba gulfs in the evenings (hence their presence on the Sinai Peninsula’s west and east flanks then). (On the Reliability . . . p.  273)

50) Being Swallowed Up by the Earth (Num 16:33)?: Kenneth Kitchen notes a well-known phenomenon in the area involved:

There exists there kewirs, or mudflats. Over a deep mass of liquid mud and ooze is formed a hard crust of clayey mud overlying layers of hard salt and half-dry muds, about thirty centimeters thick. . . . increased humidity (especially with rainstorms) causes the crust to soften and break up, turning everything into gluey mud. (Ibid., pp. 191-192)

Another rather obvious natural possibility is an earthquake. In the article, “Seismic behavior of the Dead Sea fault along Araba valley, Jordan,” the authors state,

The Dead Sea fault zone is a major left-lateral strike-slip fault. South of the Dead Sea basin, the Wadi Araba fault extends over 160 km to the Gulf of Aqaba. The Dead Sea fault zone is known to have produced several relatively large historical earthquakes. . . .

We suggest that the Dead Sea fault along the Araba valley should produce an Mw 7 earthquake about every 200 years on average. (Y. Klinger et al, “Seismic behaviour of the Dead Sea fault along Araba valley, Jordan,” Geophysical Journal International Volume 142, Issue 3 (September 2000): 769-782)

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Photo credit: Moses with the Ten Commandments (1648), by Philippe de Champaigne (1602-1674) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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Summary: I provide more than fifty massive and multi-faceted evidences in favor of the notion that Moses wrote the Torah (the first five books of the Bible), vs. atheist “Lex Lata.”

2022-10-24T08:36:55-04:00

[book and purchase information]

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Bruno Lima is a Brazilian Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer and apologist.

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I am replying to his article, “Atanásio e a Sola Scriptura” [Athanasius and Sola Scriptura] (1-16-18). His words will be in blue. I use the standard Schaff 38-volume collection of the Church fathers, including for Bruno’s own citations. St. Athanasius’ words will be indented. I cite RSV for Bible passages.

The knowledge of our religion and of the truth of things is independently manifest rather than in need of human teachers, for almost day by day it asserts itself by facts, and manifests itself brighter than the sun by the doctrine of Christ. 2. Still, as you nevertheless desire to hear about it, Macarius, come let us as we may be able set forth a few points of the faith of Christ: able though you are to find it out from the divine oracles, but yet generously desiring to hear from others as well. 3. For although the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth — while there are other works of our blessed teachers compiled for this purpose, if he meet with which a man will gain some knowledge of the interpretation of the Scriptures, and be able to learn what he wishes to know — still, as we have not at present in our hands the compositions of our teachers, we must communicate in writing to you what we learned from them — the faith, namely, of Christ the Saviour; . . . (Against the Heathen, Part 1, 1)

This quotation is one of the strongest statements in favor of the material and formal sufficiency of Scripture.

It teaches the material sufficiency of Scripture for salvation: a doctrine where Catholics and Protestants are in full agreement: and so irrelevant to the debate about sola Scriptura. It does not, however, teach the formal sufficiency of Scripture, which means sola Scriptura (Scripture is the only infallible norm and standard of Christian doctrine). That’s simply wrongly read into the quote, which is perfectly harmonious with Catholicism. The fact that Bruno doesn’t grasp this is part and parcel of the problem with Protestant interpretation and citation of the Church fathers. I just wrote a few minutes ago in a Facebook announcement of this very article:

When anti-Catholic Protestants who try to “co-opt” the Fathers and turn them into good little “proto-Protestants” it’s almost always the same methodology: they pick and choose passages that they wrongly think support their view over against the Catholic one, when in fact they do no such thing (because of their lack of understanding of Catholicism).
The classic example of that is citing Church fathers who believe in the material sufficiency of Scripture. So do Catholics, so it’s irrelevant to the sola Scriptura debate (what’s called a non sequitur in logic).
*
Then, above all, they deliberately ignore any and all passages that directly support Catholic teachings and contradict their own. Because they almost always do this, it’s very easy (though laborious and time-consuming) to refute their efforts, and it always ends up embarrassing for them, because the cynical, objectionably selective and “sneaky” nature of their method is exposed for all to see.

Bruno is starting out with textbook, playbook, classic Protestant methodology in arguing about the Church fathers and maintaining the pretense that their teachings are closer to theirs than ours. I can already see how this will go, with his first citation and sentence in commentary. It’s the same old same old.

Athanasius is communicating with Macarius. He wanted to know more about Christian doctrines. First, he asserts that knowledge of religion and truth manifests independently, without the need for human teachers. This obviously contradicts the idea that Scripture does not speak for itself, but needs an authorized magisterium to speak for it.

Catholics agree that Scripture speaks for itself. But the Catholic Church also wisely understands (in its “both/and” thinking) that human beings have misinterpreted Scripture in hundreds of different ways; therefore, authoritative Church guidance is necessary to maintain orthodoxy. This is, of course, the same view that Scripture teaches about itself:

Nehemiah 8:7-8 Also Jesh’ua, Bani, Sherebi’ah, Jamin, Akkub, Shab’bethai, Hodi’ah, Ma-asei’ah, Keli’ta, Azari’ah, Jo’zabad, Hanan, Pelai’ah, the Levites, helped the people to understand the law, while the people remained in their places. [8] And they read from the book, from the law of God, clearly; and they gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading. (cf. 8:12)

Luke 24:25-27 . . “O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! [26] Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” [27] And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures,

Acts 8:30-31 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, Do you understand what you are reading? [31] And he said, How can I, unless some one guides me? . . .

2 Peter 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

2 Peter 3:15-16 . . . So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, [16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

Therefore, the person who claims to be going by Scripture alone (i.e., the Protestant) must necessarily include the abundant biblical teaching on the necessity of authoritative teachers and interpretation of the same Bible. One is either “biblical” or not, and the above six passages are in the inspired Bible, after all. Catholics take them to heart. Protestants either don’t at all, or only partially do.

He then places side by side the inspired Scriptures (sufficient to declare the truth) and other works of the Christian teachers. The message is simple – Scripture is sufficient to declare Christian knowledge, but there are also teachers who are useful and desirable.

That’s again perfectly harmonious with Catholicism. But where we part is in the notion of infallible teachers. Protestants deny infallibility to anything but Scripture. Catholics allow it for specific teachers (bishops in an ecumenical council, in union with popes, or in popes alone) in particular, highly specified conditions. Athanasius doesn’t deny the possibility of infallibility of such teachers in this quotation. Again, Bruno simply reads into it what he wants to (wrongly) believe is present there. We know that elsewhere, St. Athanasius did affirm infallible Church and conciliar pronouncements, the Catholic rule of faith, and the binding, infallible nature of doctrines received through apostolic succession and apostolic tradition (all expressly contrary to sola Scriptura):

But the word of the Lord which came through the ecumenical Synod at Nicea, abides forever. (Ad Afros Epistola Synodica 2; in NPNF2, IV:489)

But let the Faith confessed by the Fathers at Nicæa alone hold good among you, at which all the fathers, including those of the men who now are fighting against it, were present, as we said above, and signed: in order that of us too the Apostle may say, ‘Now I praise you that you remember me in all things, and as I handed the traditions to you, so hold them fast 1 Corinthians 11:2.’ (Ad Afros Epistola Synodica 10)

For had they believed aright, they would have been satisfied with the confession put forth at Nicæa by the whole Ecumenical Council; . . . Observe how entirely they disregard the truth, and how everything they say and do is for the sake of the Arian heresy. For in that they dare to question those sound definitions of the faith, and take upon themselves to produce others contrary to them, what else do they but accuse the Fathers, and stand up in defense of that heresy which they opposed and protested against? (Ad Episcopos Aegypti et Libyae, 5)

Who, then, that has any real regard for truth, will be willing to suffer these men any longer? Who will not justly reject their writing? Who will not denounce their audacity, that being but few in number, they would have their decisions to prevail over everything, and as desiring the supremacy of their own meetings, held in corners and suspicious in their circumstances, would forcibly cancel the decrees of an uncorrupt, pure, and Ecumenical Council? (Ad Episcopos Aegypti et Libyae, 7)

It is enough merely to answer such things as follows: we are content with the fact that this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, nor did the fathers hold this. (Letter No. 59 to Epictetus, 3)

What defect of teaching was there for religious truth in the Catholic Church . . .? (De Synodis, I, 3)

But ye are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from Apostolic tradition, . . . (Fragment from Letter No. 29 [Migne, xxvi, p. 1189] )

It is obvious that these teachers (Athanasius himself was one of them) were fallible teachers.

It’s not obvious to Athanasius (as just shown) that all of them are fallible or that no one is ever infallible. Thus, as he thought, the bishops of the Council of Nicaea in 325 made infallible proclamations.

When we discuss sola scriptura and the Church fathers, Catholic apologists fail in one simple respect. It would be easy to demonstrate that a church father did not uphold sola scriptura.

It sure is! Glad to agree on something!

It suffices to demonstrate that Athanasius appealed to an infallible magisterium. He repeatedly appealed to the Scriptures as inspired and infallible, but he never appealed to the supposedly infallible magisterium.

That’s a false statement, as just demonstrated. Accordingly,  J. N. D. Kelly, the Anglican patristic scholar, wrote about Athanasius’ views:

Athanasius, disputing with the Arians, claimed that his own doctrine had been handed down from father to father, whereas they could not produce a single respectable witness to theirs. The Nicene faith embodied the truth which had been believed from the beginning. The fathers of Nicaea, he declared, had merely ratified and passed on the teaching which Christ bestowed and tghe apostles proclaimed; anyone who deviated from it could not count as a Christian. . . . 

[T]he ancient idea that the Church alone, in virtue of being the home of the Spirit and having preserved the authentic apostolic testimony in her rule of faith, liturgical action and general witness, possesses the indispensable key to Scripture, continued to operate as powerfully as in the days of Irenaeus and Tertullian . . . Athanasius himself, after dwelling on the entire adequacy of Scripture, went on to emphasize the desirability of having sound teachers to expound it. Against the Arians he flung the charge that they would never have made shipwreck of the faith had they held fast as a sheet-anchor to the . . . Church’s peculiar and traditionally handed down grasp of the purport of revelation. (Early Christian Doctrines, San Francisco: HarperCollins, revised edition, 1978, 45, 47)

The Protestant principle never denied the magisterial function of the Church and the usefulness of teachers, theologians, scribes and many others. What we claim is that Scripture is the only unquestioned authority. Church authority is fallible, and in case of conflict with the teaching of Scripture, we are left with the latter.

Yeah, I know. Athanasius and virtually all of the Church fathers disagree with the sola Scriptura view. I proved this about Athanasius above beyond all doubt and argument (which is why Bruno will likely not ever reply to this paper). It was a novelty introduced by Martin Luther in his 18-day Leipzig Disputation with Johann Eck in July 1519. I have proven it about most of the most well-known Church fathers in manty articles collected on my Fathers of the Church web page (search “Bible/Tradition”).

Athanasius grounds all of his teachings from Scripture in the 47 chapters of this work.

This is untrue also. In Against the Heathen 1, 6, 3 he refers to “the sectaries, who have fallen away from the teaching of the Church, and made shipwreck concerning the Faith.” In 2, 33, 1 he states that “the soul is made immortal is a further point in the Church’s teaching which you must know, . . .”. He never cites Scripture to establish this in the entire long chapter. He appealed to Church teaching and made various philosophical arguments. I provide another example of his appealing to extrabiblical sources below.

On the other hand, Athanasius or any other father could write a treatise wholly based on biblical evidences and proofs, just as I have done several hundred times myself. It doesn’t follow from that, that the writer denies the Catholic rule of faith. He’s simply producing biblical argumentation. Protestants — believe it or not! — don’t have a monopoly on either love of the Bible or its interpretation.

In another famous work – “The Incarnation of the Word”, he says:

For Jews in their incredulity may be refuted from the Scriptures, which even themselves read; for this text and that, and, in a word, the whole inspired Scripture, cries aloud concerning these things, as even its express words abundantly show. For prophets proclaimed beforehand concerning the wonder of the Virgin and the birth from her, saying: Lo, the Matthew 1:23; Isaiah 7:14 Virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is, being interpreted, God with us. (On the Incarnation of the Word, 33, 3)

Of course, merely mentioning or arguing from the Scriptures does nothing whatsoever to prove that a writer believes in sola Scriptura. Bruno simply assumes that this is the case, but (with just a moment’s reflection) it clearly is not. The totality of a father’s work must be considered. My citations of St. Athanasius are all far more relevant to the debate than what he is coming up with (two non sequiturs thus far).

See how Athanasius argues that the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) were enough to refute the Jews’ unbelief. From the very Scriptures they read, it would already be possible to believe that Jesus was God.

Yes; oftentimes this is the case, It proves nothing with regard to whether Athanasius’ believed in sola Scriptura. I have already proven that he did not, in showing that he accepted tents directly contrary to sola Scriptura.

This kind of argument only makes sense if you assume the formal sufficiency of Scripture.

That doesn’t follow at all. It’s undeniably the case that one doesn’t have to (logically) believe that only Scripture is infallible in order to utilize Scripture in theological argument. A Catholic could make the argument that Athanasius made above, in perfect conformity with his “three-legged stool” rule of faith (Scripture-tradition-Church). I’ve done it myself, many many times, and I have written more about sola Scriptura (denying it) than any other of the hundreds of topics I address as a Catholic apologist.

Someone like Athanasius could (and did) make many arguments from Scripture alone. But he also made arguments of the authority of tradition or councils alone, or from an appeal to apostolic succession alone. And that’s because he believed any of those things could be infallible, just as Scripture is. In his statements about the Council of Nicaea (above), clearly he doesn’t think that it erred at all in its pronouncements, or (so it seems to me) even that it could possibly err.

There are other quotes along the same lines:

For if they do not think these proofs sufficient, let them be persuaded at any rate by other reasons, drawn from the oracles they themselves possess. (On the Incarnation of the Word, 38, 1)

Or if not even this is sufficient for them, let them at least be silenced by another proof, seeing how clear its demonstrative force is. For the Scripture says: . . . (On the Incarnation of the Word, 38, 3)

[T]hen it must be plain, even to those who are exceedingly obstinate, that the Christ has come, and that He has illumined absolutely all with His light, and given them the true and divine teaching concerning His Father. So one can fairly refute the Jews by these and by other arguments from the Divine Scriptures. (On the Incarnation of the Word, 40,7-8)

He cited Scripture. Great! But (for the billionth time in these foolish discussions) nothing here proves that he held to sola Scriptura. They’re consistent with sola Scriptura, but we don’t have enough information here to conclude that he holds that view. Such utterances are also perfectly consistent with the Catholic rule of faith.

Throughout the work Athanasius quotes Scripture abundantly. Tradition and the Church are never cited as independent authorities. All allusions to them are connected with some teaching clearly expounded in Scripture. In the same work he says:

 Who then is he of whom the Divine Scriptures say this? Or who is so great that even the prophets predict of him such great things? None else, now, is found in the Scriptures but the common Saviour of all, the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ. (On the Incarnation of the Word, 37, 3)

Since then nothing is said in the Scriptures, it is evident that these things had never taken place before. (On the Incarnation of the Word, 38, 5)

All this proves is that in this particular work he made only scriptural arguments; nothing more than that. In others he uses a different methodology: and one that proves that he doesn’t hold to sola Scriptura. Bruno simply ignores those. I don’t, because I present the whole truth. Bruno’s approach is “out of sight, out of mind . . .” (whenever a patristic citation contradicts Protestantism’s traditions of men). That won’t do when I’m around: scrutinizing arguments to see if they can withstand close examination.

Note that the presupposition is that if Scripture was silent, nothing could be said.

That goes far beyond the point he was making, which was simply that Scripture would have plausibly recorded certain things if indeed they had happened. He was commenting on prophecies having to do with the coming of the Messiah, Christ. Since prophecies were in the Bible, obviously a discussion of them would also remain within the text of the Bible. Here is the larger passage, which provides the full context:

[T]he prophecy not only indicates that God is to sojourn here, but it announces the signs and the time of His coming. For they connect the blind recovering their sight, and the lame walking, and the deaf hearing, and the tongue of the stammerers being made plain, with the Divine Coming which is to take place. Let them say, then, when such signs have come to pass in Israel, or where in Jewry anything of the sort has occurred. 5. Naaman, a leper, was cleansed, but no deaf man heard nor lame walked. Elias raised a dead man; so did Eliseus; but none blind from birth regained his sight. For in good truth, to raise a dead man is a great thing, but it is not like the wonder wrought by the Saviour. Only, if Scripture has not passed over the case of the leper, and of the dead son of the widow, certainly, had it come to pass that a lame man also had walked and a blind man recovered his sight, the narrative would not have omitted to mention this also. Since then nothing is said in the Scriptures, it is evident that these things had never taken place before. 6. When, then, have they taken place, save when the Word of God Himself came in the body? Or when did He come, if not when lame men walked, and stammerers were made to speak plain, and deaf men heard, and men blind from birth regained their sight? (On the Incarnation of the Word, 38, 4-6)

Now compare this to Catholic apologists who say that Scripture is an incomplete record, that there are several other records that we must obey independently of Scripture.

We believe that Scripture is incomplete because Scripture itself teaches it:

Mark 4:33 With many such parables he spoke the word to them, . . .

By implication, many parables are not recorded in Scripture.

Mark 6:34 . . . he began to teach them many things.

None of these “many things” are recorded in the immediate context.

John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

John 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

Acts 1:2-3 . . . to the apostles . . . [3] . . . he presented himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days, and speaking of the kingdom of God.

Only very few of these appearances are recorded. In just one appearance, if Jesus had talked to the disciples for an entire evening, the amount of words might possibly have been more than those in the entire New Testament. And He appeared for forty days.

2 Timothy 1:13-14 Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; [14] guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

2 Timothy 2:2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

As I wrote in my first book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism (2003):

Protestants usually deny that any of Christ’s teachings not recorded in Scripture could possibly be faithfully transmitted orally by primitive apostolic Tradition. Reflection upon the closeness of Jesus to his disciples and on the nature of human interaction and memory makes quite dubious any such fancy. Who could make the claim that the Apostles remembered (and communicated to others) absolutely nothing except what we have in the four Gospels? . . .

It seems that whenever the Catholic argues that the Bible is not the be-all and end-all of the Christian faith, he is accused of disrespecting God’s Word, etc. This is one of many unfortunate Protestant false dichotomies . . . (pp. 6-7)

Athanasius closes the work by giving a very clear statement of the formal sufficiency of Scripture:

Let this, then, Christ-loving man, be our offering to you, just for a rudimentary sketch and outline, in a short compass, of the faith of Christ and of His Divine appearing to usward. But you, taking occasion by this, if you light upon the text of the Scriptures, by genuinely applying your mind to them, will learn from them more completely and clearly the exact detail of what we have said. 2. For they were spoken and written by God, through men who spoke of God. (On the Incarnation of the Word, 56, 1-2)

He does no such thing. Once again, the Protestant in his misguided and illogical zeal, foolishly thinks that a passage proves the notion of sola Scriptura (i.e., that Scripture is the only infallible authority) when it plainly does not. In fact, in the very next portion of section 2, which Bruno cut off because (it seems) he knew it contradicted the point he was trying to make, we read:

But we impart of what we have learned from inspired teachers who have been conversant with them, who have also become martyrs for the deity of Christ, to your zeal for learning, in turn.

Once again Bruno presents partial truths; I present the whole truth. Let the reader decide where the truth resides. Athanasius is expressly stating that he passes down the tradition that he received from men who knew and learned from the apostles and writers of the Bible. That’s apostolic tradition! I don’t know how it could be expressed any more clearly than this.

Athanasius had just written a treatise, but he closes it by asserting that this man could from the diligent study of Scripture gain a still fuller understanding.

Of course He can, because it is inspired revelation.

This is the kind of claim a Roman Catholic could never make.

Sheer nonsense. If Bruno is stupid enough to believe that, why doesn’t he prove it from official Catholic documents? Rather, in typical anti-Catholic fashion, he simply makes sweeping, prejudicial, ignorant statements that Catholics supposedly believe this and that. Does he actually believe that is a serious and not laughable, ludicrous argument?

Note that he still demonstrates the primacy of Scripture by establishing why it would be a teacher superior to any other – its author was God.

Exactly! No one disagrees. It’s the only inspired document, but not the only infallible one. But then he immediately refers to apostolic tradition that “we impart”. This shows that it’s not an “either/or” scenario but a “both/and” one: and that Athanasius does not believe in sola Scriptura.

When Catholic apologists claim that Scripture is insufficient (formally or materially), they are indirectly saying that God has not done a good job.

We don’t deny material sufficiency, so Bruno’s claiming that we do is a falsehood. We deny formal sufficiency of Scripture precisely because the Bible itself does, and because we think the Bible has “done a good job.” Protestants like Bruno are the ones (if anyone is to be so accused) who seem to think God did a lousy job in the Bible, because they ignore so much of it: anything that refutes their own man-made, arbitrary traditions of men. As usual in my replies, I am running rings around my opponent, in terms of citing Scripture. Who’s being more “biblical”?

Furthermore, why teach someone to diligently search the Scriptures for himself, when the infallible interpretation of the magisterium already exists? Why take the risk of misinterpreting if the infallible interpretation provided by tradition already existed?

This is a red herring. The Catholic Church requires only one interpretation of only nine Bible passages That hardly suggests that the Church believes that no one is capable of reading and interpreting the Bible on their own without her constant and immediate guidance.

I have already blogged a series of over 100 quotes demonstrating the Church fathers’ belief in the sufficiency of Scripture (here).

Again, they accept material sufficiency, just as the Catholic Church does. But they do not teach its formal sufficiency. I have proven that time and again with almost all of the major Church fathers. The flaw is in the illogical Protestant methodology, along the lines of what I have again shown in this paper. It’s virtually always the same fallacies trotted out over and over. It gets very wearisome and tedious, and it’s only by the grace of God that I have anywhere near the patience to point it out here for the billionth time.

Quotes Used by Catholic Apologists
*
In the face of Athanasius’ clear testimony, apologists accuse us of taking such quotations out of context, but never bring the “correct” context. They then proceed to present other quotations from other works by the Alexandrian.
*
That is indeed what we do, and what I have done here. It’s necessary because Protestant apologists are incessantly citing Church fathers out of the overall context of the their entire work, and ignoring whatever doesn’t fit into their preconceived notions.
*
That is, at most they would be proving that Athanasius was inconsistent.
*
Ah; isn’t that interesting? Now the game is to act as though Athanasius was wrong whenever he disagreed with Protestants, and right when he agreed with them (and couldn’t get his logical “act” together; poor guy!). In fact, he is quite consistent; he simply believes as Catholics believe, and as the Bible teaches (being a big Bible guy — as I am, too — , which is the only thing Bruno has proven). Since Bruno and Protestants are convinced that our view of the rule of faith is inconsistent, they accuse Athanasius of the same thing when he expresses the same view.
*
Let’s take a look at these quotes:
And the first to put on this appearance was the serpent, the inventor of wickedness from the beginning — the devil — who, in disguise, conversed with Eve, and immediately deceived her. But after him and with him are all inventors of unlawful heresies, who indeed refer to the Scriptures, but do not hold such opinions as the saints have handed down, and receiving them as the traditions of men, err, because they do not rightly know them nor their power. (Festal Letter No. 2, 6)
The argument is that heretics appeal to Scripture to spread their errors.
*
No; the argument is that they appeal to Scripture alone without also taking into account (or to the exclusion of) received tradition (in other words, an extreme version of sola Scriptura).
*
They err in not holding “the opinions as the saints conveyed it.” These opinions would be in the oral tradition.
*
Not just that; also written tradition from Church fathers.
*
Likewise, Protestants misinterpret Scripture by despising this oral tradition.
*
Sometimes yes. It is beyond question that Scripture teaches the authority of oral tradition. I already provided two passages from Paul along these lines, above.
*
However, what Athanasius is referring to is nothing more than Scripture itself correctly interpreted. Let’s look at the context in section 5:
For those who are thus disposed, and fashion themselves according to the Gospel, will be partakers of Christ, and imitators of apostolic conversation, on account of which they shall be deemed worthy of that praise from him, with which he praised the Corinthians, when he said, ‘I praise you that in everything you are mindful of me [1 Corinthians 11:2].’ Afterwards, because there were men who used his words, but chose to hear them as suited their lusts, and dared to pervert them, as the followers of Hymenæus and Alexander, and before them the Sadducees, who as he said, ‘having made shipwreck of faith,’ scoffed at the mystery of the resurrection, he immediately proceeded to say, ‘And as I have delivered to you traditions, hold them fast.’ That means, indeed, that we should think not otherwise than as the teacher has delivered. (Festal Letter No. 2, 5)
Notice that heretics listened to the words of the apostles, but instead of submitting to them, they preferred to adapt them to their own will. They did not misinterpret it because of the insufficiency of Scripture, but because of their own sin.
*
These things are not at issue between us.
*
Thus, “the opinions which the saints conveyed” is what the apostles left us in the Scriptures, which heretics did not obey and distorted.
*
Here is a typical (anti-Catholic) Protestant sleight-of-hand. Whenever sacred, apostolic tradition is referred to, they immediately assume that it is merely a synonym for Scripture, or that all of this tradition referred to is included in Scripture. The problem (and no small one!) is that Scripture itself never teaches that, just as it never teaches sola Scriptura.
*
The Catholic view is that legitimate sacred, apostolic tradition is indeed always harmonious with Scripture, but not necessarily or always identical to it in content. Neither Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:2, nor Athanasius in referring to it, ever imply (let alone assert) that all traditions are simply referring to what was later included in Scripture. This is the Protestant myth (and yet another mere “tradition of man”) of “inscripturation”: that I have written about.
*
St. Athanasius makes it very clear in the same letter that Paul was teaching about the distinction between man-made, merely human traditions, and apostolic tradition and succession: classifying the latter as a good and necessary thing:

6.  . . . Therefore Paul justly praises the Corinthians [1 Corinthians 11:2], because their opinions were in accordance with his traditions. And the Lord most righteously reproved the Jews, saying, ‘Wherefore do you also transgress the commandments of God on account of your traditions [Matthew 15:3].’ For they changed the commandments they received from God after their own understanding, preferring to observe the traditions of men. And about these, a little after, the blessed Paul again gave directions to the Galatians who were in danger thereof, writing to them, ‘If any man preach to you anything else than that you have received, let him be accursed [Galatians 1:9].’

7. For there is no fellowship whatever between the words of the saints and the fancies of human invention; for the saints are the ministers of the truth, preaching the kingdom of heaven, but those who are borne in the opposite direction have nothing better than to eat, and think their end is that they shall cease to be, and they say, ‘Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die [Isaiah 22:13].’ Therefore blessed Luke reproves the inventions of men, and hands down the narrations of the saints, saying in the beginning of the Gospel, ‘Since many have presumed to write narrations of those events of which we are assured, as those who from the beginning were witnesses and ministers of the Word have delivered to us; it has seemed good to me also, who have adhered to them all from the first, to write correctly in order to you, O excellent Theophilus, that you may know the truth concerning the things in which you have been instructed [Luke 1:1].’ For as each of the saints has received, that they impart without alteration, for the confirmation of the doctrine of the mysteries. Of these the (divine) word would have us disciples, and these should of right be our teachers, and to them only is it necessary to give heed, for of them only is ‘the word faithful and worthy of all acceptation [1 Timothy 1:15];’ these not being disciples because they heard from others, but being eye-witnesses and ministers of the Word, that which they had heard from Him have they handed down. (Festal Letter No. 2, 6-7; my bolding)

This sort of thinking about authority and tradition is exactly in accord with the Catholic rule of faith, and not at all in harmony with the Protestant rule of faith: sola Scriptura. Yes, of course it includes Scripture, but also sacred tradition (and Church authority: such as Athanasius’ unconditional reverence for the proclamations of the Council of Nicaea). The Bible and tradition are, as Vatican II eloquently described them, “twin fonts of the same divine wellspring.”

Bruno cites the entirety of section 7, erroneously thinking that it supports his case. Here’s what he says about it:

In this respect, the Roman Church radically deviated from the Ancient Church. Athanasius, like the other church fathers, understood that the apostolic magisterium was unique. Only the apostles or their authorized companions could teach infallibly. All those who came later could make a mistake. Athanasius points out that they were eyewitnesses. A Roman bishop who lives centuries later does not meet this prerequisite. 

He does not teach that: as we see in his statements about Nicaea: that I recorded above.

Therefore, we give Scripture the status of supreme authority.

It’s unique because it is inspired, but it’s not the only infallible authority, according to the Bible and Athanasius and Catholicism (and Orthodoxy). Nor does the Bible itself teach that it is such. The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 asserted infallible authority, invoking the Holy Spirit:

Acts 15:28-29 “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: [29] that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

That’s infallible Church authority, which is why Paul pronounced it to his hearers all over Asia Minor, “for observance”:

Acts 16:4 As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem.

1 Timothy 3:15 (“the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth”) also teaches the infallibility of the Church, as I have explained. Thus, the Bible explicitly condemns sola Scriptura. No one who accepts the Bible’s sublime inspired authority ought to believe in sola Scriptura. This is the biggest irony and self-contradiction of many such in Protestantism.

It is nothing more than the magisterium of the apostles and no one else can teach with the same authority as they. Thus, all subsequent teaching must be submitted to the sieve of these men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. The word of the apostles alone is “faithful and worthy of all acceptance.” Only they are unquestionable. All the others are not (including the magisterium of Rome).

Again, that is not what Athanasius teaches. It’s what Bruno wishes that he taught. It’s what Bruno improperly superimposes onto Athanasius: to desperately “force-fit” him into Protestantism. But it can’t be done. His own words preclude it. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, as the old saying goes, and a Protestant can’t make a Protestant out of the historic person named Athanasius. It’s impossible because it’s untrue. Athanasius couldn’t write,the word of the Lord which came through the ecumenical Synod at Nicea, abides forever” without at the same time accepting the infallibility of Nicaea. All the wishful thinking and special pleading in the world from Bruno can’t change that fact.

Athanasius can’t refer tothe decrees of an uncorrupt, pure, and Ecumenical Council” and at the same time deny that Nicaea was infallible. He couldn’t make it more clear than he did. But Bruno is able somehow to wish that away, or simply claim that Athanasius was inconsistent. He got it right in some places and fell into a sordid Catholicism in others, so we’re told. How pathetic. Bruno, in the final analysis, doesn’t really respect Athanasius or accept his full teachings for what they are. Rather, he employs a skewed, ultra-biased methodology. That won’t do, and his argument has been roundly refuted in this reply (if I do say so).

Let’s see others:

The confession arrived at at Nicæa was, we say once more, sufficient and enough by itself, for the subversion of all irreligious heresy, and for the security and furtherance of the doctrine of the Church. (Ad Afros Epistola Synodica 1)

This quote itself does not testify against Sola Scriptura. The Nicene confession had derived authority insofar as it shone forth the teaching of Scripture.

Of course it does. Sola Scriptura denies that anything but Scripture can be infallible. And here is Athanasius saying that Nicaea was exactly that, and (remarkably in terms of our debate), also asserting that it was “sufficient and enough by itself, for the subversion of all irreligious heresy.” Folks, that is not Protestant language. We can be absolutely certain that if Athanasius had stated instead, “Scripture is sufficient and enough by itself, for the subversion of all irreligious heresy”: that Bruno would be all over that, trumpeting it from the housetops as a marvelous proof of sola Scriptura (even though it wouldn’t even establish that; only material sufficiency).

But when it is said about a council, he has to play games and obfuscate and engage in the illusion of inscripturation and “all true tradition as only those things that cite Scripture word-for-word.” This is obviously a proof of conciliar infallibility, just as the Jerusalem Council in the Bible also is. And Bruno’s “vision” is an “ignorant man’s Christianity.” It’s not thought-through. It’s illogical and shallow and outside of lived historic Christian reality, and insufficiently biblical.

As we have already seen, Athanasius would never accept a confession that could not be substantiated in Scripture.

As I already noted, Catholics believe that all genuine traditions must be in harmony with scriptural teaching. They can be found somewhere in Scripture, either explicitly, or implicitly or indirectly by deduction and cross-referencing. Athanasius, then, is thinking nothing that is different from how Catholicism approaches these matters. He’s in perfect harmony with us and in disharmony with man-made Protestantism. In the same section of this writing, Athanasius offered a magnificent description of conciliar infallibility and the Catholic rule of faith, including apostolic succession (even including, for good measure — and to Bruno’s chagrin, no doubt — , the authority of the pope):

The letters are sufficient which were written by our beloved fellow-minister Damasus, bishop of the Great Rome, and the large number of bishops who assembled along with him; and equally so are those of the other synods which were held, both in Gaul and in Italy, concerning the sound Faith which Christ gave us, the Apostles preached, and the Fathers, who met at Nicæa from all this world of ours, have handed down. For so great a stir was made at that time about the Arian heresy, in order that they who had fallen into it might be reclaimed, while its inventors might be made manifest. . . . they were not afraid of God, who says, ‘Remove not the eternal boundaries which your fathers placed [Proverbs 22:28],’ and ‘He that speaks against father or mother, let him die the death [Exodus 21:17]:’ they were not in awe of their fathers, who enjoined that they who hold the opposite of their confession should be anathema. (Ad Afros Epistola Synodica 1; my bolding)

Bruno cited part of the above and then commented on it:

A bit of historical context is important here. The Council of Nicaea ruled for the divinity of Christ in opposition to the Arian heresy. It turns out that this was not enough to quell Arianism. Several councils were held afterwards denying or reinterpreting the Nicaean words. Athanasius himself testifies that there was a time when most bishops were Arians (hence the expression “Athanasius against the world”). These bishops were specifically opposing the Council of Rimini (here) which was opposed to the Nicene creed. Up until the Council of Constantinople, nearly a hundred councils had taken place with contradictory directives regarding the Nicene creed. This alone is enough to assert that the church itself did not consider the Council of Nicaea to be infallible.

No it’s not. There are false councils. Heretics held councils and pretended that they were orthodox. The most authoritative councils were the ecumenical councils, which were considered infallible, just as Athanasius views Nicaea. The ratification by popes was the key to determine orthodoxy of councils.

Also, note that the decisions of the synods of Gaul and Italy were placed on an equal footing with the letter of the bishop of Rome (which was also subscribed by other western bishops). Ultimately, such synods as Nicaea were founded on “the solid faith that Christ gave us and the apostles preached.” In this way, the Nicene creed was sufficient insofar as it was grounded in Scripture.

If these other councils asserted Christological truth, then they were to be commended for it. This doesn’t, however, deny the infallibility of Nicaea. Nicaea was grounded in Scripture, but not absolutely identical to it. That’s the whole point. Bruno is stuck in an “either/or” illogical unreality and dream-world.

To prove that Nicaea is superior to Rimini, the group of bishops argues that the Nicaean teaching is in accord with Scripture (section 4).

Of course it is. Catholic teaching always is that. But that proves nothing as to 1) whether Nicaea was infallible, or 2) whether sola Scriptura is true.

Furthermore, the bishops defend the term “co-essential” as expressing the meaning of Scripture, even if it is not the express term found in Scripture.

This perfectly illustrates precisely what I just asserted: “grounded in Scripture, but not absolutely identical to it.”

While the letter invokes the supposedly ecumenical nature of the council as a persuasive reason for adopting its position, nowhere does the group of bishops say or suggest that the council’s decision has equal authority with Scripture.

Technically, it doesn’t have to do that. It’s not inspired. It has to merely be infallible to refute sola Scriptura. I’ve already provided the language which claims that:the word of the Lord which came through the ecumenical Synod at Nicea, abides forever”. Again, if Athanasius had said: “the word of the Lord which came through Holy Scripture, abides forever” Bruno would place that front and center in the pathetic collection of supposed “proofs” of sola Scriptura. But when it’s stated about a council, he plays games and tries to ignore the obvious meaning and implication.

I want to make it clear that I don’t think he deliberately means it to be so (I don’t deny his sincerity), but in actuality one must conclude that the result is misrepresentation, even though it’s likely unwitting and not deliberate in intent — out of misguided zeal and the usual bias.

I hasten to add also that I’m not talking about all Protestants. Protestant historians who are actually patristic scholars: people like J. N. D. Kelly, Philip Schaff, and Jaroslav Pelikan present the Church fathers’ views with complete honesty and accuracy. I admire their work and have cited all of them many times. I have their books in my personal library. If a Church father has Catholic views (in cases where it contradicts Protestant views), they don’t try to hide the fact and play games. They simply describe it as it was. They don’t have the agenda that the anti-Catholic apologist has: always trying to bash the Catholic and the Catholic Church, no matter what the facts of the matter may be.

Furthermore, the letter says in section 5 that the council fathers “desired to set down in writing the recognized language of Scripture” and that the only reason they used a non-Scriptural word was that the Arian party kept twisting the meaning of these phrases. 

That’s just wisdom and Catholic belief. It proves nothing that Bruno thinks it proves.

So section 6 explains, “And finally they wrote more clearly and concisely that the Son was co-essential with the Father, as all the above passages [of Scripture] mean this.” In other words, the Nicene fathers did not pass on unwritten tradition or define dogma on their own authority, but simply expressed the teachings of Scripture.

The immediate point at issue is whether this council was believed to be infallible. I have shown that it was. All the rest of this is interesting, but unnecessary detail, in relation to our specific debate about what Athanasius believed regarding Christian authority. Nicaea was not identical with Scripture (though in harmony with it) and was infallible. Sola Scriptura prohibits such a position. So much for sola Scriptura, which was already self-defeating and refuted in the Bible anyway, and, thus, unworthy of any serious Bible Christian’s allegiance.

The letter (in section 6) includes another acknowledgement of the constant orthodoxy of popes: “For ancient bishops, of the Great Rome and of our city, some 130 years ago, wrote and censured those who said that the Son was a creature and not coessential with the Father.” The Council is said to be in line with apostolic succession as well as Scripture:

For that of Nicæa is sufficient, agreeing as it does with the ancient bishops also, in which too their fathers signed, whom they ought to respect, on pain of being thought anything but Christians. But if even after such proofs, and after the testimony of the ancient bishops, and the signature of their own Fathers, they pretend as if in ignorance to be alarmed at the phrase ‘coessential,’ . . . (Ad Afros Epistola Synodica 9)

The purpose of the letter (section 10) was so that “among all the bond of peace might be preserved, and that all in the Catholic Church should say and hold the same thing” and for “the harmony of the Catholic Church.” Protestants obviously don’t care about achieving a perfect harmony, or else they would cease creating denominations, that contradict each other, and thus enshrine falsehood and error, whenever the myriad numbers of contradictions occur (one of the sects being necessarily wrong in such cases).

Denominationalism and sola Scriptura guarantee the maintenance of perpetual theological relativism and ecclesiological chaos. But the Catholic rule of faith makes for far greater unity: as much as possible given human sin and widespread ignorance. The letter then appeals to conciliar infallibility as a doctrinal standard, and cites the Bible’s acceptance of genuine tradition:

But let the Faith confessed by the Fathers at Nicæa alone hold good among you, at which all the fathers, including those of the men who now are fighting against it, were present, as we said above, and signed: in order that of us too the Apostle may say, ‘Now I praise you that you remember me in all things, and as I handed the traditions to you, so hold them fast [1 Corinthians 11:2].’ (Ad Afros Epistola Synodica 10)

All of this couldn’t be any more Catholic or less Protestant than it is. In section 11 it even goes so far as to state: “For this Synod of Nicæa is in truth a proscription of every heresy.” No one can possibly imagine a Protestant making such a statement, or most of these others that I have presented. Bruno continues his survey of some Catholic disproofs of his untenable position:

The tradition, teaching and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning were preached by the apostles and preserved by the fathers. On this the Church was founded; and if any one departs from this, he must also no longer be called a Christian. (Ad Serapion, 1:28)

I couldn’t find this citation in Schaff, and am too lazy to search for it elsewhere (at 8,000 words and counting), so I have accepted the translation of Bruno’s citation.

Church teaching could be found in the church fathers and would be traceable back to the beginning (the apostles). Well, if the Catholic wants to refute Sola Scriptura with this quote, he would need to demonstrate that the teaching in question was not found in Scripture (material insufficiency) or else that the parents who passed on the teaching were infallible (Athanasius did not believe it).

That entirely misses the point, and is obfuscation. The point is the fact that Athanasius could make a statement like this in the first place, about authority and true doctrine, without mentioning Scripture. He simply doesn’t talk like a Protestant and no one can force him into that mold, no matter how hard they try. This citation has everything that is infallible besides Scripture: “tradition,” “the Catholic Church,” and apostolic succession (“preserved by the Fathers”).

This was true doctrine and tradition, preserved in the Church via apostolic succession. Whoever disagrees with it can “no longer be called a Christian.” What more does one need? If this is not a standard of faith: a standard that can remove someone from holding the name of “Christian” what is, pray tell? At this point it’s embarrassing to still be disputing what is utterly obvious to any fair observer.

Bruno cites more and observes that it is talking about the Trinity which is a scriptural doctrine, therefore, no tradition is in play, etc. But that all misses the point: whether any of these other things are regarded as infallible by Athanasius. They clearly are so regarded.

Bruno from this point to the end of his article cites Athanasius with regard to the material sufficiency of Scripture (boring, because we completely agree!) but (as always) does not and cannot establish that he taught the formal sufficiency of Scripture to the exclusion of councils, apostolic tradition and succession, and Church and papal proclamations. There’s no reason to address this because it’s a total non sequitur.

As far as I am concerned, he has proven absolutely nothing that he has set out to prove, and I have decisively refuted his contentions with other passages from Athanasius.

Related Reading

St. Athanasius’ Rule of Faith (NOT Sola Scriptura) [6-16-03] [includes lengthy citations of St. John Henry Cardinal Newman about St. Athanasius’ rule of faith, from his Select Treatises of St. Athanasius, Volume II, 1844 (his Anglican period) ]

Council of Nicea: Reply to James White: Its Relationship to Pope Sylvester, Athanasius’ Views, & the Unique Preeminence of Catholic Authority [4-2-07]

Lutheran Chemnitz: Errors Re Fathers & Sola Scriptura (including analysis of Jerome, Augustine, Origen, Epiphanius, Ambrose, Lactantius, Athanasius, and Cyprian) [8-31-07]

St. Athanasius: Catholic, Not Proto-Protestant [12-26-07]

Armstrong vs. Collins & Walls #9: “Apocrypha” (Jerome, Athanasius, Etc.) [10-21-17]

14 Proofs That St. Athanasius Was 100% Catholic [National Catholic Register, 6-4-20]

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Summary: Brazilian Calvinist apologist Bruno Lima’s attempt to prove that St. Athanasius held to sola Scriptura is an utter failure. I provide relentless refutations of his contentions.

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