2023-02-28T15:25:39-04:00

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The late Steve Hays (please pray for his soul) was a Protestant Reformed, anti-Catholic apologist, very active online, who ran the site, Triablogue. I am critiquing his article about the papacy and Catholic Church government in general, entitled “Back to Babylon-1” (5-2-04). His words will be in blue.

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I anticipate some objecting by thinking, “why go after the writing of a dead man who can’t respond?” My reply is twofold:

1) his material is still out there, and from where Catholics sit, it is still harming those who read it and accept the relentless misrepresentations and trashings of Catholicism found therein.

2) Steve Hays never truly responded to me anyway. He would merely “toy” with my arguments, as if the whole undertaking were a joke, always in an utterly condescending, sophistical manner and in-between ten million personal insults (including his repeated insistence that I was not a real, true-blue Catholic). So there is little difference: there is no dialogue possible now, but it never took pace when he was alive, either. Accordingly, eventually he blocked me at Triablogue and I continue to be utterly ignored when I critique the top guy there now: Jason Engwer (who used to engage in many lengthy debates with me in the early 2000s). The dubious ideas and falsehoods can and should still be responded to by apologists like myself, as long as they remain online for anyone to read. In other words, it’s public material and fair game.

That out of the way, I proceed. See my past responses to Hays, related to the rule of faith:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 & Tradition [5-12-20]

1 Timothy 3:15 = Church Infallibility [5-14-20]

Does Sola Scriptura Create Chaos? [5-15-20]

Debate: Matthew 16:18-19 & the Papacy (vs. Steve Hays) [10-30-21]

Sola Scriptura: Self-Refuting? (vs. Steve Hays) [12-14-21]

Traditionally, Roman Catholicism has held that sola Scriptura is an inadequate rule of faith. And a number of one-time Evangelicals have converted to Rome for the same reason. This contention has two parts: (i) that sola Scriptura is inadequate and (ii) a Magisterium is the logical alternative to (i).

Hays misses the main underlying reason why we reject sola Scriptura: it’s not a biblical doctrine, and was never held by the Church fathers, as I have proven again and again.

Even if (i) were a sound argument, it wouldn’t automatically follow that (ii) is the logical alternative. That demands a separate argument.

That’s technically or logically correct, and we’ll get to that. But there are only so many choices in the real world. If the Protestant system is fatally defective, due to a false rule of faith, then that leaves Catholicism and Orthodoxy as the only live alternatives (assuming there is some remnant of Christianity left in the world).

I have already examined 10 objections to sola scriptura and found them wanting;

And I’ll guarantee that he never proved that sola Scriptura was actually taught in Holy Scripture. I submit that no Protestant has ever shown that. They simply assume it. Once in a while they actually openly admit this. For example, Jason Engwer wrote:

I don’t think the Bible directly, explicitly teaches sola scriptura. Rather, I think sola scriptura is an implication of Biblical teaching. . . . I don’t think 2 Timothy 3:15-17 is saying that Timothy or anybody else at that time should have abided by sola scriptura. Rather, when we combine 2 Timothy 3 with what other sources tell us about scripture and what we know about other factors involved (e.g., ecclesiology), we arrive at the conclusion of sola scriptura.” (“How To Argue For Sola Scriptura,” 1-10-18)

Lutheran pastor Jordan Cooper expressed the same idea in his video, “A Defense of Sola Scriptura (3-12-19):

I think the question that we have is: do we have to find a particular Scripture that says Scripture is the only authority? And I just don’t think we have to. We don’t. There’s nothing in — you can’t find — in any of Paul’s letters, for example, . . . “by the way, Scripture is the only authority and traditions are not an authority and there is no magisterium that is given some kind of infallible authority to pass on infallible teachings.” It seems like a lot of Roman Catholic apologists think that for Protestants to defend their position, that they have to find a text that says that.” [1:39-2:14]

Thanks for your refreshing honesty, guys. You happily confirm what I’ve been arguing for now 32 years. And if it’s not stated in the Bible, it’s self-refuting or self-defeating, period, end of story. Game, set, match.

now I’ll examine the case for the Magisterium—or divine teaching office of the church.

Bring it on!

In principle, sacred tradition (inclusive of Scripture) comprises the Catholic rule of faith. In practice, though, what qualifies as authoritative tradition and authoritative exegesis is determined by the Magisterium, headed by the Pope.

Authoritative interpretation is always logically required in any Christian system. Ours is the “three-legged stool” which is taught in the Bible: Bible-Tradition-Church. Documents can’t interpret themselves. Hence, we have hundreds of thousands of pages of legal analysis of the US Constitution. Protestants play the game that each one is ultimately an individual and “just goes by the Bible,” etc.

In fact, authoritative interpretation or “Protestant tradition” will always be found without much trouble, whether it’s John Calvin (Hays’ master) and his Institutes  or various creeds and confessions. They hasten to add that the private judgment of each Protestant reigns supreme, but if that were truly the case, why have these other documents at all? We can back up our entire system in a way that Protestantism cannot, and in the case of sola Scriptura, we see at least a few of them finally honestly admitting this after 500 years.

Therefore, the case for the Catholic rule of faith (sacred tradition) is contingent on the case for the Magisterium, which is—in turn—contingent on the case for the papacy in particular. So this chapter will emphasize the papacy.

It can all be defended.

I. Supreme teacher in abstentia

According to Catholicism, the Pope is the supreme teacher of the church. But if that were the case, it is passing strange that of the 260 plus men—give or take an antipope—who have occupied the office, not one has been a theologian of the first rank. The intellectual firepower has come further down the chain-of-command, viz., Anselm or Aquinas, Augustine or Bonaventura, Geach or Lonergan, Maritain or Newman, Rahner or Scheeben, Scotus, Suarez or von Balthasar. It seems incongruous, to say the least, that the real shapers of Catholic thought are not the Popes, but lowly priests and laymen, with an occasional bishop thrown in. When papal advisors are more distinguished teachers than the Pope is, it makes me wonder what the job qualifications are for the papacy. It certainly doesn’t seem to be based on the principle of merit pay.

I deny his negative claim. Certainly, even in our own time, Pope St. John Paul the Great and especially Pope Benedict XVI were theologians of the first rank. There were many more, such as Pope Leo XIII, and much further back, Pope St. Leo the Great and Pope St. Gregory the Great: both considered Church fathers (and they are Doctors of the Church as well) and hence included in most collections of those men (such as Schaff’s 38-volume edition).

But that said, being a “great theologian” is not a job requirement of the papacy in the first place. The papacy is the leader and head of the Church, and the final say (“the buck stops here,” so to speak). We believe that he is protected by God when he makes infallible pronouncements, in a way that no theologian is. But it’s often the case, generally speaking, that the real thinking power and intellectual activity occurs further down the “chain of authority” in any institution. A president of a university or large corporation is only very rarely the top mind or cutting-edge intellect. In that sense, the Catholic Church is no different, excepting the aspect of direct divine protection from error in extraordinary circumstances.

But that’s not the worst of it. Whenever a case had to be made in defense of papal prerogatives during the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, who made it? Wouldn’t the Pope be the natural candidate to present the case for his own preeminence? But, no. Once again, none the big guns were Popes, but men who spoke on behalf of the papacy, viz., Fisher, Eck, Cajetan, Bellarmine and Stapleton. Now if the Pope is supposed to be the supreme teacher of the Church, then why can’t he speak for himself? Can’t he even make a case for himself? If he isn’t up to the job of laying out his own credentials for the job, then what does that say about his credentials for the job?

Again, aside from what I stated above, this is usually the case in any Christian communion. So for example, the great figures or minds in Anglicanism, such as John Wesley and John Henry Newman before 1845, were priests, and not Archbishops of Canterbury. Few would say that, for example, the President of one of the Lutheran synods or of the Southern Baptist Convention would or should be the most profound theologian of those communions. Billy Graham was never the head of any denomination. Probably a lot of this has to do with the fact that leaders and bosses are often bogged down with administrative or “business” duties, and thinkers and activists normally hate those things, or are not qualified for them. They have more “pressing” and “exciting” matters and ideas to attend to.

Even John Calvin’s Institutes (though in practice almost regarded as infallible) is not the authoritative document for Reformed Christians. That would be found in their various confessions. Sometimes such men may happen to also be governmental leaders, as in the case of popes, but it’s not their primary purpose. Why make this an issue, then? It’s misguided and wrongheaded (albeit clever, as much of Hays’ rhetoric was).

What would be our impression if a search committee were scheduled to interview a job applicant for a teaching position, yet the applicant didn’t show up in person, but sent a spokesman in his place? The Pope flaunts his divine résumé, but then hides behind a phalanx of handlers and spin-meisters.

This is simply sophistry, based on the false premise exposed above.

On the one hand, Luther and Calvin were quite able to make their own case, even though their critics denied the right of private judgment. On the other hand, their critics had to do all the talking for the papacy.

Yes, they made their case, and they were not denominational leaders in the way that the pope functions (which is precisely my point). They were the intellectual and theological leaders and figureheads of the Protestant Revolt or Revolution. I wish I had a dime for every time a Lutheran (quite needlessly) pointed out to me that Luther’s writings have no binding authority for the individual Lutheran. Rather, that role is played by the Book of Concord (which includes Luther’s and his successor Melanchthon’s writings, but only a small portion of them).

Apples and oranges. Same with the papacy. This ain’t rocket science. Hays could certainly milk a demonstrably false presence for all it was worth (with his followers blissfully unaware that he was doing it). But the conclusions are no more compelling than the miserable foundation of sand that they are drawn from.

II. Bashful Magisterium.

For a denomination that regards the right of private judgment as so spiritually perilous, the Roman Church has shown itself to be remarkably shy about formally and infallibly committing itself on a wide range of fundamental questions in faith and morals.

One can only chuckle that we get slammed for having so many infallible dogmas and doctrines, but also simultaneously for not infallibly expounding on everything, (as if this is what our system is or should be), including the best recipe for apple pie. That’s anti-Catholicism: Catholicism is and must be wrong, no matter what it does or states.

Why has an ecumenical council never issued an infallible catechism?

Because that’s a contradiction in terms. Infallible doctrines are relatively rare occurrences, and so that characteristic could never apply to an entire catechism. This is elementary, but as usual, Hays didn’t get it. And in his stupefied ignorance of Catholicism as it actually is and seeks to be, he inevitably descended to mockery and caricature.

Why has the papacy never produced an ex cathedra commentary?

Again, this fundamentally misunderstands the relationship of Bible commentary and exegesis to Catholic authority. The Church does not force Catholics to believe thus-and-so about every passage in the Bible. In fact, I would say it does so far less than the system of Calvinism does. In fact, Catholic exegetes are quite free, and the Church has only authoritatively proclaimed an binding, authoritative interpretation for only seven to nine Bible verses.

But what we instead witness is an organization that brandishes maximal authority-claims while venturing minimal truth-claims. It bears a sneaky resemblance to a psychic who dons an air of superior foresight while remaining strangely vague about names, dates, and places.

Classic and textbook, quintessential Hays mockery-caricature. This sort of thing is why I mostly refused to interact with his criticisms. It was unworthy of serious response. Yet people are still being led astray by it (and the apologist is duty-bound to try to offer a better way). This is the constant “trial of patience” of the Catholic apologist. How much can we take of such material without being slowly driven insane? Yet by God’s grace only we plunge ahead . . .

Shouldn’t one of the singular advantages of a divine teaching office be to anticipate and head-up a major controversy before it erupts, rather than engage in damage control? How was the Reformation even possible with a living Magisterium on the scene?

Again, a scenario which a Christian communion primarily responds to heresies is nothing unusual or out of the ordinary. It was what the Church fathers did all the time. Entire ecumenical councils were based on that. Their task wasn’t to predict coming heresies, but to dissect existing and increasingly influential ones. Everybody knows this (and Steve did, too, but he simply couldn’t resist sophistry). Cardinal Newman said something like, “no doctrine is defined [i.e., fully developed] until it is violated.”

A so-called “Reformation” was possible because men are rebellious against authority by nature, and because (yes) the Catholic Church needed reform as she always does at all times. The myth, however, is that Protestantism was so extraordinarily superior; as if it had no serious shortcomings in practice (before we even get to doctrine) that it excoriated Catholicism for having. It’s the double standard and myth-making and “Protestant hagiography” that I never ever bow to. I know too much, and can never go back to my former “brainwashed evangelical” ignorance about the history and nature of Catholicism.

III. Without Intertestamental precedent:

A traditional pillar of the papal apologetic has been the contention that unless a living Magisterium, headed by the Pope, existed throughout the life of the Church, the people of God would lapse into heresy and apostasy.

But as a matter of fact, this surmise has already been put to the test. During the Intertestamental period—an interval of about 400 years between the composition of the Old and New Testaments—there was no charismatic office in place to offer the people infallible guidance in faith and morals or unerring interpretations of the law and the prophets. Yet compared with the times leading up to the Assyrian deportation and Babylonian exile, when the people did enjoy special guidance, and went awhoring all the same, this is one of the more zealous chapters in the nation’s history.

During the Intertestamental period, the people’s only recourse was to sola scriptura—which then amounted to the OT canon. In the providence of God, there was nothing equivalent to a Magisterium during the Intertestamental period.

To directly refute Hays’ contentions here, then, we must analyze whether this period was as glorious and “orthodox” as Hays seems to assume. I would point to the emergence of the Sadducees in the 2nd c. BC. They were the “theological liberals” of their time and precisely prove my point. I made an argument about them with regard to the rule of faith in ancient Israel in a 1999 article (abridged for my present purposes): 

The Sadducees were much more “heretical.” They rejected the future resurrection and the soul, the afterlife, rewards and retribution, demons and angels, and predestinarianism. Christian Pharisees are referred to in Acts 15:5 and Philippians 3:5, but never Christian Sadducees. The Sadducees’ following was found mainly in the upper classes, and was almost non-existent among the common people.

The Sadducees also rejected all “oral Torah,” — the traditional interpretation of the written that was of central importance in rabbinic Judaism. So we can summarize as follows:

A) The Sadducees were obviously the elitist “liberals” and “heterodox” amongst the Jews of their time.

B) But the Sadducees were also the sola Scripturists of their time.

C) Christianity adopted wholesale the very “postbiblical” doctrines which the Sadducees rejected and which the Pharisees accepted: resurrection, belief in angels and spirits, the soul, the afterlife, eternal reward or damnation, and the belief in angels and demons.

D) But these doctrines were notable for their marked development after the biblical Old Testament canon was complete, especially in Jewish apocalyptic literature, part of Jewish codified oral tradition.

The very existence of the Sadducees is a testament (no pun intended) to what happens if a principle of sola Scriptura is followed (as in their own case), and tradition (including oral tradition) is rejected: heterodoxy. Therefore, I assert what Hays denied: without a strong theological authority in place, the Jews would and indeed did “lapse into heresy and apostasy”: in the case of the Sadducees. The Essenes, another prominent Jewish sect that began in the 2nd c. BC, also denied the resurrection of the body. The Pharisees (like Christians) affirmed it, and oral law received on Mt. Sinai and oral tradition. So now we see that two of the three predominant Jewish groups of the period “lapse[d] into heresy”: despite Hays’ claims to the contrary. Prior to these unfortunate developments, the Jews had accepted a doctrine of the afterlife, and at length, even a bodily resurrection. See:

Jewish and Old Testament Views of Hell and Eternal Punishment [4-14-04]

Salvation and Eternal Afterlife in the Old Testament [8-31-19]

It developed slowly, but was in place when Jesus came onto the scene. The Sadducees and the Essenes (like the various heretical sects of Church history) did their best to undermine these beliefs, in their heresy. 

IV. Without OT precedent:

Even during the dispensation of OT inspiration, special revelation was sporadic (cf. 1 Sam 3:1). While the nation as a whole fell away, God’s word sufficed to preserve his elect. Rahner himself admits that, “before the church of Christ this absolute authority of a teaching office did not exist. The OT knew of no absolute and formal teaching authority which was recognized as such. Its ‘official’ representatives themselves could fall away from God, his revelation and his grace,” Foundations of Christian Faith (Seabury 1990), 378.

“There was no infallible teaching authority—not even before the death of Christ—in the OT, in the sense of a permanent institution, which had this inerrant character. There were prophets every now and again. But there was no infallible Church,” Inspiration in the Bible (Herder & Herder, 1961), 52.

The is largely untrue. I dealt with this sort of clever but misguided argument in the following dialogue: Dialogue with a Lutheran on Ecclesiology & OT Indefectibility Analogies (vs. Nathan Rinne) [11-22-11] and in my articles:
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Sola Scriptura, the Old Testament, & Ancient Jewish Practice [1999]
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Inspired & Infallible Prophets: Analogy to Infallible Popes [2-2-10]

Levites and the Old Covenant System vs. Sola Scriptura [4-9-06]

OT Levites & Priests: Closer to Sola Scriptura or Catholicism? [4-9-06]

Old Testament Analogies to the Catholic Rule of Faith and Binding Authority / Disanalogies to Sola Scriptura [4-9-06]

V. Nonconformity in the OT:

In this section, Hays delves into the Pharisees and especially Matthew 23:2-3. I have dealt with these issues at extreme length (no need to repeat myself):

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VI. Vox populi, vox Dei?

Vatican II grants that the community of faith is infallible in faith and morals when a popular consensus obtains (Lumen Gentium 12). But if that is so, then why bother with a Magisterium at all?

Hays, very typically of Protestant polemicists, makes what is a shared prerogative (the people and the magisterium) into an “either/or” false dichotomy, as if this is a scenario of the will of the people against the magisterium, or of such a sort that the latter becomes superfluous. Nice try but no cigar. Lumen Gentium is not teaching that at all, as is readily obvious when one simply reads Lumen Gentium 12:
12. The holy people of God shares also in Christ’s prophetic office; it spreads abroad a living witness to Him, especially by means of a life of faith and charity and by offering to God a sacrifice of praise, the tribute of lips which give praise to His name. The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One, cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples’ supernatural discernment in matters of faith when “from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful” they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals. That discernment in matters of faith is aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth. It is exercised under the guidance of the sacred teaching authority, in faithful and respectful obedience to which the people of God accepts that which is not just the word of men but truly the word of God. Through it, the people of God adheres unwaveringly to the faith given once and for all to the saints, penetrates it more deeply with right thinking, and applies it more fully in its life. [my bolding and italics]
I ask: “what part of ‘shares’ and ‘agreement’ and ‘under the guidance of the sacred teaching authority’ and ‘respectful obedience’ did Hays not get?” Or was he just playing his usual games (where it is very hard indeed not to conclude that he was deliberately lying). If he had read this portion, it’s almost impossible to conclude that he couldn’t grasp it. He was often wrong, but not stupid.
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VII. The Petrine prooftexts:

Catholicism has invoked three Petrine prooftexts in support of papal primacy (Mt 16:18-19Lk 22:32Jn 21:15-17). But this appeal falls flat on numerous counts:

1. Non-sequitur:

Even if the passages did imply Petrine primacy, that doesn’t imply papal primacy.

Well it does according to frequent scriptural typology and by analogy. The extensive indications of Petrine primacy are not in the Bible for no reason. It has implications. We say this implication is his leadership of the Church and the developing and unbroken papacy of Church history.
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We need to distinguish between consistency and implication. As I’m typing these words, it’s raining outside. These two facts are mutually consistent. But my typing doesn’t imply that it’s raining, or vice versa. So even if the claims made for papal primacy dovetail with promises made to Peter, you cant’ directly papal primacy from Petrine primacy.

We certainly can in precisely the same way that the OT typology of “David as the prototype of the Messiah” implies Jesus Christ, or how Elijah was a prototype for John the Baptist, etc.

2. Hidden assumptions

Catholicism doesn’t take these texts on their own terms, but has instead allowed the papacy itself to supply the comparative frame of reference. If the papacy didn’t already exist in his mind to color his expectations, a Roman Catholic wouldn’t discover it in these passages, for they’re concerned with the role of Peter, which is historically prior to, and logically independent of, the development of the papacy. Just try that mental experiment yourself. Imagine that you’d never heard of the papacy. Would reading these verses suggest the papacy, all by themselves? You can only “see” the papacy in these verses because you’ve seen the papacy outside these verses. What a Catholic reader is sees in these verses in not an image of the papacy, but the historical afterimage of the papacy, superimposed on these verses.

We all have our biases (and that works both ways). I have always granted that. The way to overcome this is to argue one-by-one all of the Petrine / papal passages by recourse to Protestant Bible scholars only, as I did yesterday in my article, Reply to Rodrigo Silva on NT Evidences for the Papacy. Yes, I contend that one (understanding biblical typology and presentation of important figures) would see the papacy, once one was informed of all of the abundant Petrine data in the NT. In writing my reply, I discovered, to my surprise, that Peter is mentioned more times in the NT than Paul: 191 (162 as Peter or Simon Peter, 23 as Simon, and 6 as Cephas) to 184 (23 of those as “Saul”). Protestants routinely assume — and I did myself — that it’s the other way around. And part of that is the inherent Protestant bias towards Paul.
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3. A double-edged sword.

Ironically, Protestants polemicists have historically employed a parallel mode of reasoning to disprove papal claims by finding Mt 23:8-102 Thes 2:3-4,8-9 and Rev 13:6 fulfilled in the institution of the papacy. So the Catholic appeal cuts both ways. It either proves too much or too little. Its method of papal proof could be redeployed as a method of papal disproof.

No; because these alleged disproofs do not have the existence alongside them of massive indications all leading in one direction: Petrine primacy as the model of a papacy. They’re arbitrary and eisegetical and ad hoc in a way that the Petrine proofs are not at all.
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4. Mirror-reading

Insofar as you can find a parallel between the Petrine texts and the papacy, that is in the nature of a self-fulfilling prophecy. With the advantage of hindsight, the papacy has modeled itself on the Petrine texts. Thus, when it reads these verses it sees a reflection of itself staring back. But that’s a case of historical impersonation rather than prophetic foresight—like a vaticinium ex eventu. If, after the fact, the cast yourself in the very terms of fulfillment, then—voila! —you see your own face at the bottom of the well.

This is simply a variation of “2. Hidden assumptions“: and as such, has already been refuted.
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5. From Peter to papacy—a bridge too far:
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[I have rearranged the sections so the themes / arguments are placed together)

Mt 16:18 is the primary Petrine text. But a direct appeal to Mt 16:18 greatly obscures the number of steps that have to be interpolated in order to get us from Peter to the papacy. Let’s jot down just a few of these intervening steps:

a) The promise of Mt 16:18 has reference to “Peter.”
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V18 may not even refer to Peter. “We can see that ‘Petros’ is not the “petra’ on which Jesus will build his church…In accord with 7:24, which Matthew quotes here, the ‘petra’ consists of Jesus’ teaching, i.e., the law of Christ. ‘This rock’ no longer poses the problem that ‘this’ is ill suits an address to Peter in which he is the rock. For that meaning the text would have read more naturally ‘on you.’ Instead, the demonstrative echoes 7:24; i.e., ‘this rock’ echoes ‘these my words.’ Only Matthew put the demonstrative with Jesus words, which the rock stood for in the following parable (7:24-27). His reusing it in 16:18 points away from Peter to those same words as the foundation of the church…Matthew’s Jesus will build only on the firm bedrock of his law (cf. 5:19-20; 28:19), not on the loose stone Peter. Also, we no longer need to explain away the association of the church’s foundation with Christ rather than Peter in Mt 21:42,” R. Gundry, Matthew (Eerdmans 1994), 334.
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b) The promise of Mt 16:18 has “exclusive” reference to Peter.
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Is falsified by the power-sharing arrangement in Mt 18:17-18 & Jn 20:23.
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Again, I disposed of this objection in Reply to Rodrigo Silva on NT Evidences for the Papacy.
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c) The promise of Mt 16:18 has reference to a Petrine “office.”
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The conception of a Petrine office is borrowed from Roman bureaucratic categories (officium) and read back into this verse. The original promise is indexed to the person of Peter. There is no textual assertion or implication whatsoever to the effect that the promise is separable from the person of Peter.
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This involves a deductive and logical argument for succession as an interpretation of what these passages mean. I made the case in my papers:
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Here is the argument in a nutshell:
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One of the apostles (Judas) was replaced with another (Matthias) and that is in the Bible. Therefore, why wouldn’t Peter also be replaced, as the manifest leader of the apostles (and according to Jesus, the leader of the Church)?Secondly, why would there be a leader of the Church only for the lifetime of Peter? No one ever thinks like that about other offices of leadership. If a country is a monarchy, it has a succession of kings. We have a succession of Presidents in America. No one would think in 1789 that we should have George Washington to be our one and only President and then we would no longer need a President at all.
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Sports teams have successions of coaches. Corporations have a succession of CEOs, cities have mayors, schools have principals, etc. The offices or positions don’t simply end. Yet when it comes to the papacy, people think like that. It’s absurd from common sense and analogy alone, but we also have biblical data that expressly contradicts it. Protestants even acknowledge other biblical Church offices of leadership that continue (pastors and deacons, and in some cases, bishops), yet they balk at accepting even a theoretical notion of a papal succession.
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If Peter was the leader of the apostles and first head of the Church, then it only makes sense that he had successors. The burden on the Protestant, then, is to try to deny that Peter was the leader of the twelve and then of the new Christian Church. And that can’t really be done. If there is indeed such a thing as a papacy, then biblically speaking (and from analogy and common sense), there is a papal succession as well.
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d) This office is “perpetual”
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In 16:18, perpetuity is attributed to the Church, and not to a church office.
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This falls under the logical and analogical argument for papal succession, made immediately above. The Church, built upon Peter, would not ever infallibly proclaim error. Since the pope is the head and spokesman for the Church, in effect, the two are the same in terms of authority and indefectibility.
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e) Peter resided in “Rome”
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There is some evidence that Peter paid a visit to Rome (cf. 1 Pet 5:13). There is some evidence that Peter also paid a visit to Corinth (cf. 1 Cor 1:129:5).

There is solid evidence that he did and that his bones were found there, in the area where St. Peter’s is now.

f) Peter was the “bishop” of Rome
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This commits a category mistake. An Apostle is not a bishop. Apostleship is a vocation, not an office, analogous to the prophetic calling. Or, if you prefer, it’s an extraordinary rather than ordinary office.
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It’s not in light of the following:
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Eusebius:

All that time most of the apostles and disciples, including James himself, the first Bishop of Jerusalem, known as the Lord’s brother, were still alive . . . (History of the Church, 7:19, tr. G. A. Williamson, Baltimore: Penguin Books, 1965, 118)

James is called an apostle by St. Paul in Galatians 1:19 and 1 Corinthians 15:7. That James was the sole, “monarchical” bishop of Jerusalem is fairly apparent from Scripture also (Acts 12:17; 15:13, 19; 21:18; Gal 1:19; 2:12).

In Mark 6:30 the twelve original disciples of Jesus are called apostles, and Matthew 10:1-5 and Revelation 21:14 speak of the twelve apostles. After Judas defected, the remaining eleven apostles appointed his successor, Matthias (Acts 1:20-26). Since Judas is called a bishop (episkopos) in this passage (1:20), then by logical extension all the apostles can be considered bishops (albeit of an extraordinary sort).

If the apostles are bishops, and one of them was replaced by another, after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, then we have an explicit example of apostolic succession in the Bible, taking place before 35 A. D. In like fashion, St. Paul appears to be passing on his office to Timothy (2 Tim 4:1-6), shortly before his death, around 65 A.D. This succession shows an authoritative equivalency between apostles and bishops, who are the successors of the apostles.

g) Peter was the “first” bishop of Rome
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The original Church of Rome was probably organized by Messianic Jews like Priscilla and Aquilla (cf. Acts 18:2Rom 16:3). It wasn’t founded by Peter. Rather, it consisted of a number of house-churches (e.g. Rom 16; Hebrews) of Jewish or Gentile membership—or mixed company.
*
We know that Peter died there, and if he did, then it stands to reason that he was the bishop, since he was the leader of the disciples of Jesus. Technically, he wouldn’t have to found the church at Rome in order to be its first bishop.
*
h) There was only “one” bishop at a time
*
NT polity was plural rather than monarchal. The Catholic claim is predicated on a strategic shift from a plurality of bishops (pastors/elders) presiding over a single (local) church—which was the NT model—to a single bishop presiding over a plurality of churches.
*
Even Protestants grant that James was the bishop of Jerusalem. And that’s strongly implied in the Bible and backed up by very early patristic testimony. But Church government developed and was quite fluid and even overlapping at first, as we would fully expect.
*
And even after you go from (i) oligarchic to (ii) monarchal prelacy, you must then continue from monarchal prelacy to (iii) Roman primacy, from Roman primacy to (iv) papal primacy, and from papal primacy to (v) papal infallibility. So step (h) really breaks down into separate steps—none of which enjoys the slightest exegetical support.
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I’ve written about all these things, but it’s too involved to bring here, in one sub-section.
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i) Peter was not a bishop “anywhere else.”
*
He may have been at Antioch, or he may not have been. Either way, so what?
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j) Peter “ordained” a successor
*
By logical extension and analogy, no doubt he did, just as Paul appointed his successor and the disciples replaced Judas by ordaining Matthias
*
Peter also presided over the Diocese of Pontus-Bithynia (1 Pet 1:1). And according to tradition, Antioch was also a Petrine See (Apostolic Constitutions 7:46.).
*
Yes; great, and a non sequitur.
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k) This ceremony “transferred” his official prerogatives to a successor.
*
Offices in the NT imply this; otherwise, they wouldn’t still exist today. Some sort of succession had to occur.
*
(j)-(k) This suffers from at least three objections:
*
i) These assumptions are devoid of exegetical support. There is no internal warrant for the proposition that Peter ordained any successors.
*
We aren’t claiming that it’s an exegetical argument. It’s a deductive argument based on other “governmental” analogies in Scripture.
*
ii) Even if he had, there is no exegetical evidence that the imposition of hands is identical with Holy Orders.

Acts 9:17 (RSV) So Anani’as departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 13:1-4 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyre’ne, Man’a-en a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleu’cia; and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

1 Timothy 4:11-16 Command and teach these things. Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. Till I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders laid their hands upon you. Practice these duties, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress. Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. (cf. 1 Tim 5:22; Heb 6:2)

2 Timothy 1:6 Hence I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands;

iii) Even if we went along with that identification, Popes are elected to papal office, they are not ordained to papal office. There is no separate or special sacrament of papal orders as over against priestly orders. If Peter ordained a candidate, that would just make him a pastor (or priest, if you prefer), not a Pope.

He’s a bishop of bishops. Hence, no need for further ordination. He simply becomes the highest and most sublimely gifted of the body of bishops.

l) The succession has remained “unbroken” up to the present day.
*
(l) This cannot be verified. What is more, events like the Great Schism falsify it in practice, if not in principle.
*
From the presence of a counterfeit pope it doesn’t inexorably follow that there is no genuine pope.
*
These are not petty objections. In order to get from Peter to the modern papacy you have to establish every exegetical and historical link in the chain. To my knowledge, I haven’t said anything here that a contemporary Catholic scholar or theologian would necessarily deny. They would simply fall back on a Newmanesque principle of dogmatic development to justify their position.
*
And the Bible and reason . . .
*
But other issues aside, this admits that there is no straight-line deduction from Mt 16:18 to the papacy. What we have is, at best, a chain of possible inferences. It only takes one broken link anywhere up or down the line to destroy the argument.
*
Since they are all weak links, they don’t succeed in overcoming the strong biblical evidence.
*
Moreover, only the very first link has any apparent hook in Mt 16:18. Except for (v), all the rest depend on tradition and dogma. Their traditional support is thin and equivocal while the dogmatic appeal is self-serving.
*
This is also untrue, as I have demonstrated over and over.
*
6. Tension between Petrine & Papal primacy:

But to put a sharper point on things, every argument for Petrine primacy is an argument against papal primacy since the more that Catholicism plays up the unique authority of Peter, as over against the Apostolic college, the less his prerogatives are transferable to a line of successors. There’s a basic tension between the exclusivity of his office vis-à-vis the Apostolate and the inclusivity of his office vis-à-vis the Episcopate.

Not at all, as long as one thinks in biblical / Hebraic “both/and” terms and not with the relentless false dichotomies of Protestantism.

In the text before us, the promises were made to the person of Peter, in contradistinction—as Catholicism would have it—to the person of James, John, or Paul. They were all apostles. That is not the distinguishing feature. And the Petrine texts don’t draw a distinction between the office and office-holder. Of course, the papal apologist is free to multiply his own distinctions, but these are devoid of textual support.

Any Christian thinker can understand the distinction between office and office-holder with just a little reflection. St. Paul illustrated the difference:
Acts 23:1-5 And Paul, looking intently at the council, said, “Brethren, I have lived before God in all good conscience up to this day.” [2] And the high priest Anani’as commanded those who stood by him to strike him on the mouth. [3] Then Paul said to him, “God shall strike you, you whitewashed wall! Are you sitting to judge me according to the law, and yet contrary to the law you order me to be struck?” [4] Those who stood by said, “Would you revile God’s high priest?” [5] And Paul said, “I did not know, brethren, that he was the high priest; for it is written, `You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.'”
Hays then goes off in directions far from the original topic. To spare the reader further tedium and exhaustion by this point — I’m at 6800 words — (not to mention my own sanity, after having to deal with relentless error), I’ll stop here.
***
*

Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-one books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

***

Summary: I systematically dismantle the caricatures of the papacy invented by the late anti-Catholic Reformed Protestant apologist Steve Hays, from the Bible and logic.

2023-02-21T16:31:46-04:00

Textbook Anti-Catholic Sophistry Tactics

[originally posted on 12-7-22 on Facebook; slight changes added on 12-26-22]

Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ’s human nature after His death. He has a Master’s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (but now inactive) for six blogs. He’s active on YouTube.

This is my 55th refutation of Banzoli’s writings. For almost half a year (5-25-22 to 11-12-22) he didn’t write one single word in reply. Why? He says it’s because my articles are “without exception poor, superficial and weak . . . only a severely cognitively impaired person would be inclined to take” them “seriously.” Despite this childish rationalizing, he remarkably concluded at length that my refutations are so “entertaining” that he will “make a point of rebutting” them “one by one.” I disposed of his ubiquitous slanderous insults in Facebook posts dated 11-13-22, 11-15-22, 11-23-22, and 12-22-22. I will be ignoring them henceforth, and I thank him for so many blessings (Matthew 5:11-12).

Google Translate is utilized to render Lucas’ Portugese into English. Occasionally I slightly modify clearly inadequate translations, so that his words will read more smoothly and meaningfully in English. His words will be in blue. Words from my article that he was “critiquing” will be in green.

*****

“Lyin’ Lucas” Banzoli wrote an article is entitled, “Was Mary immaculate, sinless and the greatest creature that ever lived? (Reply to Dave Armstrong)” [12-7-22]. It’s so ridiculous that it deserves no full response. But I take this opportunity to (one last time) expose some of his endless and boorish sophistical methods: the usual, typical, never-varying anti-Catholic methodology in dealing with Catholicism.

Even if it takes a hundred years, I will make a point of responding to my newest fan’s articles one by one. . . . for Dave and many other papists, just say this and you are automatically accused of “hating” Mary . . . it is the Protestant who “hates” Mary, not the papist who idolizes her in a way that the Bible never refers to her. That’s why, if Dave ever responds to this article, it will be with more victimization and emotional attacks, not exegesis, of which he has none.
*
I specifically denied that I believe Banzoli “hates” Mary near the beginning of my article. He completely ignores that. I wrote:
*
I didn’t (and don’t) claim that Protestants “hate” Mary. Nor do I think that most Catholics believe this (though there certainly are some). I contend that they simply don’t understand the importance and crucial nature of Mariology in the overall framework of Christianity. They haven’t been properly taught. Their theological formation was deficient and insufficient. They have become spiritually impoverished or stunted. This wasn’t true — I’m delighted to report — of the original Protestants. It crept in later, as a result of the corrosion of early manifestations of cynical, skeptical theological liberalism.
*
Accordingly, I chose the word “denigration” to describe Lucas’ stated opinions. He regards the Blessed Virgin Mary as far “lower” in significance and holiness than she actually is. Although he does (happily) concede several points about her blessedness (even singular blessedness), due to her being the mother of Jesus, he doesn’t present her as the Bible does (sinless).
*
If in fact Catholics believed that Mary was a “goddess” then surely the term would appear in official [magisterial] Catholic documents somewhere. But of course it does not. If Lucas or any Protestant denies that, let them produce the documented evidence. “Put up or shut up!” Best wishes in that endeavor!
*
I never spoke of “official magisterial documents” that declare Mary a goddess. I talked about her being treated like a goddess by most Catholics, which is quite different. . . . We don’t need a paragraph in the catechism that expressly says “Mary is a goddess and we worship her”; we need only see how it is dealt with in practice, which in no way differs at all from any heathen worshiping his gods and goddesses. . . .
*
In short, the Roman Church does not really write with all the letters in an “official magisterial document” that “Mary is a goddess and needs to be worshipped”, but she exalts those who refer to her, beatifies the most idolatrous beings that ever existed , recommends the reading of these idolatrous books, recognizes terrifyingly idolatrous Marian “apparitions” and does absolutely nothing to curb the immense wave of idolatry among lay Catholics who do not miss the first opportunity to prostrate themselves before a piece of wood and stone. Of course, with all this, an “official magisterial document” is not even necessary – as if drawing was needed to make things more obvious.
*
This is pathetic. The first rule in all apologetics is to document what a theological opponent believes, from their own words or (especially) official documents. But Banzoli is beyond all that. He has magical powers to see into the hearts of “most” Catholics who treat Mary like a “goddess”: so he says in his omniscience and infinite wisdom. By this criterion of “evidence” anyone can “prove” anything.
*
But then he decides that he will document alleged Mariolatry, from no other than (you guessed it!): St. Alphonsus de Liguori; his book, The Glories of Mary. He cites twenty passages from it. This is perhaps the anti-Catholics’ favorite Catholic book. They love it. The only problem is: they only cite the parts about Mary. They virtually never cite what the same book says over and over about the primacy of Jesus as God, not Mary as a supposed goddess. I dealt with this at length over twenty years ago now:
*
*
If that’s not enough, I have similar papers about St. Louis de Montfort (2009) — whom Banzoli mentions and says is “even more scandalous” and “more idolatrous than Liguori” — , and St. Maximilian Kolbe (2010).
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Mary was simply exceptionally holy: so much so that she was holier than any other human being created: and this as a result of God performing a special miracle of removing original sin from her at conception.
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Dave only claims this, without proving the point anywhere in the article . . .
*
*
Banzoli then pulls out many of the usual examples of “grace” regarding others, that I dealt with way back in 2004 . . . none of them is remotely like what we have in Luke 1:28. He pulls out “all have sinned . . .” Yep; I dealt with that in 1996. He mentions Revelation 12. I’ve written five or six articles just about that, in addition to book material.
*
It is curious that we have not seen a single one of these “eminently biblical reasons” throughout Dave’s article – perhaps he is keeping an ace up his sleeve and waiting for the opportune moment to show us this bombastic text, which until today no one has ever seen. In the entire article, the only biblical text cited is the one calling Mary “blessed,” which Dave tortures to the point of turning it into a declaration of sinlessness and superiority over all of God’s creatures. This is the level of Catholic apologetics when it ventures to try to appear “biblical.”
*
I guess Banzoli has never heard of a “link”: or if he has, he doesn’t know how to click on it and go to another page online. He needs to learn that soon. I don’t repeat myself unnecessarily if I’ve already written about something. I simply link to it.
*
Perhaps that is why many Catholics literally see her as a kind of deity – just like the words of Alphonsus de Liguori . . . They pay lip service to “veneration,” but in practice, everything they do is indistinguishable from true worship . . . Only a completely alienated or ill-intentioned person would not be able to understand how Mary has a place of primacy in Catholicism that goes far beyond Christ – whether we call it “worship” or not.
*
No proof; just the idiotic “many” or “most” Catholics supposedly believe Mary is a goddess. This is beneath contempt. It’s simply pure bigotry towards and prejudice against Catholics.
*
***

Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

***

Photo credit: The Ghent Altarpiece: Virgin Mary (detail; bet. 1426-1429), by Jan van Eyck (c. 1390-1441) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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Summary: Anti-Catholic Brazilian polemicist Lucas Banzoli pulls out all the stops in inventing a warped, twisted, caricatured “Mary”. I dismantle his myths one-by-one.

2023-02-21T15:56:24-04:00

Including Extensive Biblical Analyses of Exceptionally “Righteous” and “Holy” People, and Merit

Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ’s human nature after His death. He has a Master’s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (but now inactive) for six blogs. He’s active on YouTube.

This is my 22nd refutation of articles written by Lucas Banzoli. As of yet, I haven’t received a single word in reply to any of them (or if Banzoli has replied to anything, anywhere, he certainly hasn’t informed me of it). Readers may decide for themselves why that is the case. His words will be in blue. I use RSV for the Bible passages unless otherwise indicated.

*****

I’m replying to Lucas’ article, “Maria era uma mulher qualquer?” [Was Mary just any woman?] (3-24-17).

[In another “closely related” article] I unmask the Catholic trick that consists of saying that we “hate Mary” just because we don’t believe in the ridiculous and late Marian dogmas invented by Rome.

I chose my title very carefully. I didn’t (and don’t) claim that Protestants “hate” Mary. Nor do I think that most Catholics believe this (though there certainly are some). I contend that they simply don’t understand the importance and crucial nature of Mariology in the overall framework of Christianity. They haven’t been properly taught. Their theological formation was deficient and insufficient. They have become spiritually impoverished or stunted. This wasn’t true — I’m delighted to report — of the original Protestants. It crept in later, as a result of the corrosion of early manifestations of cynical, skeptical theological liberalism.

Accordingly, I chose the word “denigration” to describe Lucas’ stated opinions. He regards the Blessed Virgin Mary as far “lower” in significance and holiness than she actually is. Although he does (happily) concede several points about her blessedness (even singular blessedness), due to her being the mother of Jesus, He doesn’t present her as the Bible does (sinless). And he takes a few classic supposed “anti-Mary” texts and distorts them in order to try to make this failed, miserable case for Mary’s “ordinariness.” I also describe his pathetic effort as “mindless” because it’s literally groundless and unbiblical, as I will show. It has no substance. It’s simply spiritual ignorance.

So: “hatred”? No. I don’t claim that Protestants (generalizing) hate Mary. But rank ignorance of both the Bible and traditional Catholic and Orthodox and early Protestant Mariology? Yes! Absolutely . . .

In the present article I will dismantle another papist charge, that we assert that Mary was “an ordinary woman.”

That is, in fact (much as he denies it) the conclusion that Lucas argues for in this article.

Usually this accusation is the fruit of a straw man created in debates where the Protestant debater didn’t say anything about it. For example, this occurs when an evangelical claims that Mary was a human being and not a goddess, and then the enraged, teeth-baring papist hurls abuse at the believer and accuses him of saying that Mary was “an ordinary woman.”

I can see why a “papist” might very well react that way, since the premise contains a lie: that is, that we supposedly regard or classify Mary as a “goddess.” That’s a notion smuggled in from Greek or Roman pagan religion and mythology. Catholics regard Mary as God’s greatest creature and the holiest created human being, because God chose her to bear the incarnate God: Jesus. Protestants like Lucas simply collapse that into the category of “goddess” because they seem constitutionally unable to grasp the fact that different folks have different levels of holiness; therefore, that there can be a “holiest” among those who are exceptionally holy, and can do that without becoming God, and remaining quite human.

That’s high and exalted indeed, and worthy of honor and reverence (not worship or adoration), but it has nothing to do with being an alleged  “goddess.” If in fact Catholics believed that Mary was a “goddess” then surely the term would appear in official [magisterial] Catholic documents somewhere. But of course it does not. If Lucas or any Protestant denies that, let them produce the documented evidence. “Put up or shut up!” Best wishes in that endeavor!

Mary was simply exceptionally holy: so much so that she was holier than any other created human being: and that as a result of God performing a special miracle of removing original sin from her at conception. Most Protestants don’t or can’t or won’t accept that, since they have this mistaken and unscriptural idea that all human beings are more or less the same, and exhibit no differences of degree of holiness and righteousness (which ties directly into their denial of merit). The Bible doesn’t teach that, but Protestant extra-biblical tradition unfortunately does.

But after all: was Mary just any woman? My answer is: Yes. And not. Let me explain. The crucial point behind this accusation is not in Mary, but in “any”. The “any” is the emphasis of the sentence. So, it is first necessary to define what “any” is, what the debater understands by the term. When a Protestant claims that Mary was an “any woman”, he is not saying that Mary was an ordinary, despicable or insignificant woman, as the Catholic debater purposely distorts the term. He is merely maintaining that Mary was not “more” a woman than other women, that is, that she was only a woman and not a goddess or demigoddess, as Catholics think.

That is, the “any” is not in a pejorative sense, it is not diminishing the person of Mary; it is simply emphasizing that she was as human as any other woman. In the Bible, all women were created equally in the image and likeness of God as His creatures.

Since we have no disagreement with this whatsoever (as far as it goes), it’s a non sequitur (irrelevant). Lucas again constructs a straw man and knocks it down: impressing no one but those as profoundly ignorant about these matters as he is.

All human beings are of equal value before God, and if anyone denies this, he will descend to Nazi thinking, that held that there were superior and inferior types of people. God loves all men and women equally, regardless of race, nation, age, or role in life.

Of course He does. The marvel here is that Lucas thinks Catholics would deny this. More rank ignorance on display . . .

If a viewpoint strays from this understanding, it’s not Christianity: it’s idolatry, when one human being is placed above all others, sometimes even sharing the focus with God.

Again, the Bible refers to holy people: ones who are holier than others. Therefore, in that scenario there can be one person who is in fact, holier than all other created people: up to and including sinlessness. This person we Catholics believe to be the Blessed Virgin Mary. Let’s take a step back and first establish the premise that Lucas appears to deny: that there are differences in holiness among human beings.

James 5:16-18 . . . The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. [17] Eli’jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. [18] Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.

It’s all right there. The prophet Elijah was just a person like all the rest of us, with a “like nature” (just as was true of Mary also), but he was exceptionally righteous, and here we learn that the prayer of such a person has more powerful effects than that of a less holy person. See a similar verse:

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer.

The Bible teaches that grace is given in different degrees to different people. See my paper, Degrees of Grace / Quantifiable Differences in Grace [5-4-17].

The description “more righteous” appears four times in the Old Testament. “Righteous man” appears 22 times in the Old Testament, and “good man” seven times. Job is described as “blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil” (Job 1:1; cf. 1:8; 2:3). The phrase “blameless man” also appears in 2 Samuel 22:26; Psalms 18:25 and 37:37. “Holy man” occurs in 2 Kings 4:9, in reference to the prophet Elisha.

The notion of merit is entirely biblical:

Catholic Merit vs. Distorted Caricatures (James McCarthy) [1997]

Merit and Cooperating with God for Salvation [7-8-07]

Catholic Bible Verses on Sanctification and Merit [12-20-07]

Our Merit is Based on Our Response to God’s Grace [2009]

Merit & Human Cooperation with God (vs. Calvin #35) [10-19-09]

Jesus Associates Works, Merit, & Heroic Sacrifice w Salvation [11-10-18]

Protestants agree with us that there are differential rewards in heaven. Why would that be? Well, it’s (I think rather obviously) because of different attainments of merit and righteousness in this life: all by God’s grace, I hasten to add (like all good things); but we have to cooperate with our free will and in doing so, we gain merit and more rewards in heaven.

Hebrews 11 is a chapter devoted to “the heroes of faith.” Are we to believe that none of the people mentioned were worthy of such scriptural honor; that they were no higher in righteousness than Joe Blow Protestant sitting in a Bible study on Wednesday night?

There is absolutely such a thing in the New Testament as a “righteous / holy person”: usually meaning in context that he or she is relatively more righteous or holy than other persons:

Matthew 10:41 . . . he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Matthew 13:17 Truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Matthew 21:32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, . . .

Matthew 23:35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari’ah the son of Barachi’ah, . . .

Mark 6:20 for Herod feared John, knowing that he was a righteous and holy man, . . .

Luke 1:5-6 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechari’ah, of the division of Abi’jah; and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. [6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 1:70 as he spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old,

Luke 1:74-75 to grant us that we, being delivered from the hand of our enemies, might serve him without fear, [75] in holiness and righteousness before him all the days of our life.

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout,

Luke 23:50 Now there was a man named Joseph from the Jewish town of Arimathe’a. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man,

Romans 6:13 Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness.

Romans 6:19 . . . yield your members to righteousness for sanctification.

2 Corinthians 9:10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your resources and increase the harvest of your righteousness.

Ephesians 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

Ephesians 3:5 . . . his holy apostles and prophets . . .

Ephesians 4:24 and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

Philippians 1:11 filled with the fruits of righteousness . . .

Colossians 3:12 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, and patience,

1 Thessalonians 2:10 You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our behavior to you believers;

1 Timothy 6:11 But as for you, man of God, shun all this; aim at righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. (cf. 2 Tim 2:22)

Titus 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, master of himself, upright, holy, and self-controlled;

1 Peter 1:15-16 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; [16] since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

1 Peter 3:5 . . . the holy women who hoped in God . . .

2 Peter 2:5 . . . Noah, a herald of righteousness . . .

2 Peter 2:7-8 . . . righteous Lot . . . [8] (for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds),

2 Peter 3:2 . . . the holy prophets . . .

1 John 3:7 . . . He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous.

1 John 3:12 and not be like Cain who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous.

Revelation 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.

sometimes even sharing the focus with God.

That happens several times in Holy Scripture. It’s nothing unusual or controversial:

Mark 16:20 And they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them . . .

Romans 15:17-18  In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. [18] For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has wrought through me to win obedience from the Gentiles, by word and deed,

1 Corinthians 3:9 . . . we are God’s fellow workers . . . (KJV: “labourers together with God”)

1 Corinthians 15:10  But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me.

1 Corinthians 15:58  Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

2 Corinthians 6:1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

2 Corinthians 13:3 . . . Christ is speaking in me . . .

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; . . .

Philippians 2:13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God even shares His glory with human beings, as I have documented.

Once a woman in the crowd said to Jesus: “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!” (Luke 11:27) What did Jesus answer? If he were Catholic, we would know very well what the answer would be, and he would exalt Mary even more. But his reply was: “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” (Luke 11:28) Note that Luke, the evangelist, introduces Jesus’ answer with a “But“, to make it clear that he was contradicting what the woman said. And when he quotes Jesus’ answer, he starts with a “Before”, placing anyone who hears the word of God as blessed before Mary.

I’m not sure where Lucas sees “before.”

That woman in the crowd thought Mary was special and more important than all the others for giving birth to Jesus – this is exactly the same Catholic argument! – but Jesus contradicts it and puts anyone who keeps the word of God above it.

Jesus wasn’t denying that His mother was blessed, but instead, affirming it and moving on to make a more general point (which would likely include Mary as well: as the exemplar of a general description of holiness). This is scarcely a case illustrating “Catholicism gone awry.” In fact, it is no problem at all (none, whatsoever), rightly understood. Jesus affirms His mother and her holiness, and goes on to make another point, just as he did in several other similar passages. He was referring to Mary, too, when he was extolling those who “hear the word of God and obey it” (Phillips). The Catholic Encyclopedia (in its article: “The Blessed Virgin Mary”) comments on this passage:

At first sight, it seems that Jesus Himself depreciated the dignity of His Blessed Mother. . . .

In reality, Jesus . . . places the bond that unites the soul with God above the natural bond of parentage which unites the Mother of God with her Divine Son. The latter dignity is not belittled; as men naturally appreciate it more easily, it is employed by Our Lord as a means to make known the real value of holiness. Jesus, therefore, really, praises His mother in a most emphatic way; for she excelled the rest of men in holiness not less than in dignity. . . .

Think for a moment of the implications of the interpretation whereby Jesus would be denying that Mary was blessed. Really? This is not just a question of allegedly “excessive” Catholic Marian veneration, but of clear biblical texts.

This is about a woman who was hailed by the angel Gabriel (what other human being is treated this way by an angel?), twice called “blessed” by Elizabeth (mother of John the Baptist: Lk 1:42, 45), precisely because she was the Mother of God the Son and believed the angel when she was informed of this. Mary herself says in reply: “henceforth all generations will call me blessed” (Lk 1:48). And of course, Catholics do that and almost all Protestants do not. We fulfill the prophecy.

In other words, if Mary was blessed, it was for keeping the Word of God, and therefore being as blessed as any other person who also keeps the Word, and not in a privileged and superior way just because she was his mother. That’s a harsh message, it’s true.

It’s “both/and”; not “either/or” as in the frequent unbiblical “dichotomous” Protestant mentality. Mary kept the Word so well that she was sinless. Who can keep it better than that? But she was privileged, too, by being the mother of God incarnate: an absolutely unique human accomplishment. One either grasps the sublime wonder and marvel of this or they do not. This is what I was referring to earlier, in describing many Protestants as having a “theological formation” that was “deficient and insufficient” and “spiritually impoverished or stunted” and suffering from “spiritual ignorance” and a sad state of being “oblivious to self-evident spiritual reality and manifest biblical teachings.”

Martin Luther didn’t suffer from these shortcomings at all. He “got it”: in a way that Lucas seems literally unable to comprehend:

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God. (Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; Luther’s Works, Vol. XXI, 326)

That is the main consideration of Mary’s uniqueness. She was the Mother of God [the Son]. No one else was or is. No one had the unfathomable honor and privilege of not only bearing the Incarnate God for nine months, but living with Him and raising Him for thirty years, when the rest of the world knew Him not (they only had three years to do so). Mary thus had intimate connection with Jesus for ten times more years than anyone else, other than St. Joseph. Is that not amazingly unique as well, and anything but “ordinary”?

When I was a Protestant, I “got this” too. I believed that Mary was the greatest human being ever created. And why? Because she bore Jesus, and was so holy and humble, and appeared to be the first Christian in the new covenant (though I would have denied that she was sinless).

Lucas, in a related article, concedes this point (though it seems almost self-contradictory, given his overall argument):

Mary being the mother of Jesus, the Son of God is more than enough to consider her truly blessed and graced, as the Bible says of her. Although the Bible says that Mary was blessed among women, I affirm without hesitation that she was more blessed than all women as well, because of this unique and singular fact.

Secondly, she was full of grace (and called that by the angel Gabriel); that is, sinless: which is consistent with her Immaculate Conception. I explained how this follows, from Luke 1:28, in many articles:

Luke 1:28 (“Full of Grace”) & Immaculate Conception [2004]

The Bible: Mary Was Without Sin [4-1-09]

Mary’s Immaculate Conception: A Biblical Argument [2010]

Annunciation: Was Mary Already Sublimely Graced? [10-8-11]

Biblical Support for Mary’s Immaculate Conception [National Catholic Register, 10-29-18]

A “Biblical” Immaculate Conception? (vs. James White) [8-27-21]

Lucas agrees in his related article, that Mary was “full of grace”:

The Bible also says that Mary was “graced” or “full of grace” (depending on the controversial translation of kecharitomene), and we agree: [cites Luke 1:28-30] . . .

And while the most likely translation of kecharitomene is “graced” rather than “full of grace”, I believe without a doubt that Mary was “full of grace” as well. And that’s no retreat. I already wrote an article stating this on September 7, 2012 . . . 

Interestingly, the translation he used for Luke 1:30 is translated into English by Google: “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have been graced by God!” [Portugese: “Não tenha medo, Maria; você foi agraciada por Deus!”] This is a good rendering, because the Greek word is “grace” [charin / χάριν: Strong’s word #5485]. Many translations use “favor with God” here but “graced by God” is perfectly apt and proper. NASB translates charin as “grace” 122 times (78%) out of 156 appearances. Some non-Catholic English translations of Luke 1:30 are similar:

Amplified Bible, Classic (AMPC) you have found grace (free, spontaneous, absolute favor and loving-kindness) with God.

NEB + REB God has been gracious to you.

Expanded Bible (EXB) God has shown you his grace [you have found favor/grace with God].

Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB) thou hast found grace with God.

New Century Version (NCV) God has shown you his grace.

New Matthew Bible (NMB) you have found grace with God.

Wycliffe Bible (WYC) thou hast found grace with God.

Lamsa You have found grace with God.

Thirdly, she was called “blessed” in an extraordinary way, and precisely because she was the mother of Jesus:

Luke 1:41-48 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit [42] and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! [43] And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? [44] For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. [45] And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” [46] And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, [47] and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, [48] for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;

That’s biblical teaching. Lucas, in his related article, to his credit, again agrees:

We evangelical Christians have absolutely no problem or hesitation in asserting about Mary what the Bible actually says she was. The Bible says that Mary was blessed among women, and we agree [cites Luke 1:42] . . .

The Bible says that Mary would be called “blessed” through all generations, and we agree, and we consider Mary certainly very blessed: [cites Luke 1:46-49]

That’s all great. I would simply note that if Lucas agrees with Scripture that Mary was “blessed among women” and “certainly very blessed”, then why doesn’t he call her what we call her: “the Blessed Virgin Mary”? Catholics literally do what the Bible predicts: we call her “Blessed”: precisely as the Bible says would happen in “all generations.”

Fourthly, Catholic belief in her Immaculate Conception finds strong analogies to the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, and John the Baptist, and to the Apostle Paul:

Isaiah 49:1, 5 . . . The LORD called me from the womb, . . . [5] And now the LORD says, who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him, and that Israel might be gathered to him, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD, and my God has become my strength –

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (KJV: “sanctified thee”)

Luke 1:15 for he will be great before the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.

Galatians 1:15 . . . he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace,

Fifth, we have the data from Revelation 12, which is about Mary and illustrates a strong heavenly exaltation and veneration of Mary:

Virgin Mary: Woman of Revelation 12? [4-1-09]

Dialogue on the Woman of Revelation 12 (Mary?) [8-16-11]

Blessed Virgin Mary & Revelation 12: Debate with a Protestant [5-28-12]

Defending Mary (Revelation 12 & Her Assumption) [5-28-12]

Vs. James White #12: Mary the Woman of Revelation 12 [11-7-19]

Is Our Lady the Woman of Revelation 12? [National Catholic Register, 11-27-19]

It is an affront to the ears of the most fanatical Catholics, who unduly exalt Mary with exactly the same argument used by the woman in the crowd whom Jesus antagonized. But it’s the truth, whatever the cost: Jesus doesn’t put Mary on a pedestal because she was his mother. The “pedestal” is to guard the Word of God, and in this all those who practice are together.

We venerate Mary for the above reasons: all eminently biblical. Period. It’s the Bible that “put Mary on a pedestal.” Lucas’ real beef is with Holy Scripture. Because of that, we follow that example, since we desire to ground all of our beliefs (or to have them be in harmony with) in the biblical revelation.

Another text where this thought becomes even clearer is in Mark 3:32-35, which says:

“And a crowd was sitting about him; and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, asking for you.” [33] And he replied, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” [34] And looking around on those who sat about him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! [35] Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.””

Here Jesus not only privileges his spiritual family over his natural family – and explicitly includes his mother in this set – but also uses the term “any”, so oppressive to the Tridentines. Yes, what Jesus was saying is that anyone [“whoever”] who does the will of God is your brother, sister and mother. If Jesus says anyone can be like Mary if they do God’s will, then Mary is like anyone who does God’s will. This is simple and basic logic. Spiritually speaking, Mary was an “any” woman, equal to all others who did the will of God.

This is not belittling Mary, but elevating all others in equal dignity.

I dealt with this groundless objection, too, at length: “Who is My Mother?”: Beginning of “Familial Church” [8-26-19]. Here are some highlights:

James Spencer Northcote comments . . .:

. . . nor can it be necessary to point out to anyone who is familiar with the Gospels, how common a thing it was with our Blessed Lord to direct His answers not so much to the questions that had been put forward, as to the inward thoughts and motives of those who put them; how sometimes He set aside the question altogether as though he had not heard it, yet proceeded to make it the occasion of imparting some general lesson which it suggested. This is precisely what He does now. . . .

Jesus took this opportunity to show that He regarded all of His followers (in what would become the Christian Church) as family. Similarly, He told His disciples, “I have called you friends” (Jn 15:15).It doesn’t follow that this is “a rebuff of this kin” (i.e., his immediate family). He simply moved from literal talk of families to a larger conception and vision of families as those who do “the will of God.” Thus, Jesus habitually used “brethren” to describe those who were not His immediate family: [I cite six examples] . . .

It’s not a rebuff of His mother and father and half-brothers and/or cousins . . . it’s simply the beginning of the Body of Christ, and the Christian Church being regarded as one large, extended family.

None of this has any bearing on the spiritual status of Mary. It’s simply Jesus “expanding the circle” of Christian believers, so to speak. Protestants like Lucas see this as an alleged denigration of Mary because they are already predisposed to do so before they read the text. Such a view is not inherently in the text.

In the mind of the Catholic apologist, Mary can only be honored if she demeans everyone else.

No informed apologist ever said any such thing. It’s absurd. But there can (indeed must be) be a human being who is holier than anyone else, just as there are people who can play basketball better than anyone else, or run faster, or understand mathematics better than anyone, etc. So there is the holiest person. Catholics say — based on the Bible and unbroken Sacred Tradition — that this person is the Blessed Virgin Mary.

In the Bible, Mary is in the same group as others who seek God, not because she is despicable, but because others are just as important as she is spiritually before God.

That’s simply not true, as I have just demonstrated in fine different ways in the Bible (and by dismantling his alleged biblical disproofs). It’s what Protestants like Lucas wish or wrongly imagine to be true, despite the Bible.

While the Catholic demeans everyone to elevate Mary in an idolatrous way,

We do no such thing. We simply say she was sinless and God’s greatest creature (which someone logically has to be; for example, maybe a Protestant would say this person was St. Paul). And we don’t make an idol of her because we don’t worship or adore her as a goddess. We venerate and honor her, which is a perfectly biblical thing:

The Imitation of St. Paul & the Veneration of Saints [2004]

Bible on Veneration of Saints & Angels: John Calvin’s Antipathy to Veneration of Saints and Angels vs. Explicit Biblical Evidences of Same [10-1-12]

Biblical Evidence for Veneration of Saints [2013]

Veneration of Saints: God “In” and “Through” St. Paul [5-7-13; slightly expanded on 5-17-21]

Veneration of & Bowing Before an Angel (Joshua 5:13-15) [9-7-13]

Venerating & Bowing Before Angels & Men: Biblical? [11-10-14]

New (?) Analogical Biblical Argument for Veneration of the Saints and Angels from the Prohibition of Blasphemy of the Same  [8-8-15]

Veneration of Human Beings: Seven Biblical Examples (Apostles Paul and Silas, Kings David and Saul, Prophets Daniel and Samuel, Patriarch Joseph) [3-4-19]

Angel Gabriel’s “Hail” (Lk 1:28): Veneration of Mary? [3-8-19]

Imitating Paul & Saints: Biblical Argument for Veneration [10-29-21]

Elizabeth’s Veneration of God-Blessed Mary [12-2-21]

the Bible elevates everyone, without exception, who does God’s will, in God’s eyes.

Yes it does. That is the basis of merit: human beings accept God’s grace and act upon it,: thereby receiving merit.

It doesn’t exalt one to debase the others; it exalts others by making everyone equal under the mercy and love of God.

God loves everyone equally, and desires that all be saved (they are not because so many reject God’s free offer of grace), but they are not equally holy or meritorious, and do not even receive equal measures of grace, as massively shown above.

. . . all this just to solely extol Mary to the detriment of all others. If that isn’t misogyny and idolatry of the highest degree, I don’t know what is.

What an odd claim, seeing that Catholics have many female saints whom we venerate, and have proclaimed four Doctors of the Church: St. Teresa of Avila (1515-1582), St. Catherine of Siena (1347-1380), St. Therese of Lisieux (1873-1897), and St. Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179). Doctors of the Church are “saints whose writing or preaching is outstanding for guiding the faithful in all periods of the Church’s history” (Fr. John A. Hardon, SJ, Modern Catholic Dictionary).

The rest of this article that I have not directly responded to is either reiteration, or just plain stupid and silly and more straw men: ideas and opinions that never arose in any pious and educated Catholic mind. I didn’t have the patience to deal with all of it; but the heart and essence of Lucas’ argument has been dealt with and thoroughly refuted, and this article is over 5,000 words as it is.

Please keep praying for my patience, dear Catholic readers. I’ll need it as I continue to wallow through the outrageous and noxious, odious muck of Lucas’ anti-Catholic articles. The most insufferable of them all is when he battles against what he falsely imagines to be Catholic Mariology and what he wrongly believes about the Blessed Virgin Mary herself.

But someone has to refute this blasphemous slop, so here I am — only by God’s grace — engaging in that task.

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Photo credit: Istanbul: Chora Church Museum (Kariye Cami). Nartex. A mosaic showing the Virgin Mary beside Jesus. Photograph by Giovanni Dall’Orto, May 29, 2006. Released into public domain by the photographer [Wikimedia Commons]

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Summary: Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli engages in mindless denigration of an imagined “Mary” by not comprehending what it means to be the Mother of Jesus.

2023-02-21T15:55:06-04:00

Was Mary Full of Grace and Therefore Sinless? And If So, Was This Necessary or Only “Fitting”?

Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ’s human nature after His death. He has a Master’s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (but now inactive) for six blogs. He’s active on YouTube.

This is my 21st refutation of articles written by Lucas Banzoli. As of yet, I haven’t received a single word in reply to any of them (or if Banzoli has replied to anything, anywhere, he certainly hasn’t informed me of it). Readers may decide for themselves why that is the case. His words will be in blue. I use RSV for the Bible passages unless otherwise indicated.

*****

I’m replying to Lucas’ article, “Maria pecou?” [Did Mary sin? ] (2-5-15).

Yes, [Mary] sinned. If all have sinned (Rom.3:23; 5:12), Mary has sinned. Case closed.

It’s not case closed at all. I dealt with this in my article, “All Have Sinned” vs. a Sinless, Immaculate Mary? [1996; revised and posted at National Catholic Register on 12-11-17]. I addressed the issue that “all” in Scripture often does not mean “absolutely every, without exception.” Mary’s sinlessness is not a logical impossibility, or absolutely ruled out based on the meaning of pas [“all”] alone.

To give three quick examples of what I am talking about: Paul writes that “all Israel will be saved,” (Rom 11:26), but we know that many will not be saved. And in Romans 15:14, Paul describes members of the Roman church as “filled with all knowledge”, which clearly cannot be taken literally. 1 Corinthians 15:22 states: “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” As far as physical death is concerned (the context of 1 Cor 15), not “all” people have died (e.g., Enoch: Gen 5:24; cf. Heb 11:5; Elijah: 2 Kings 2:11). Likewise, “all” will not be made spiritually alive by Christ, as some will choose to suffer eternal spiritual death in hell.

But I think an even more effective explanation is the following:

Mary was included in the “all” in the sense that she certainly would have been subject to original sin [and almost certainly would have actually sinned] like all the rest of us but for God’s special preventive act of grace – a “preemptive strike,” so to speak. This is why she can rightly say that God was her Savior too (Lk 1:47). . . .

[This] allows one to take “all” here in its most straightforward, common sense meaning, but with the proviso that Mary was spared from inevitable sin by means of a direct, extraordinary intervention of God, . . .

1. Mary never sinned, because her womb gave birth to an immaculate person.

And? If Mary is immaculate, then Mary’s mother’s womb also produced an immaculate person, but Catholic apologists do not claim that Mary’s mother is immaculate either. If this “logic” were minimally followed, it would lead us to Eve:

• Every immaculate being can only be generated by another immaculate being.

• Mary is immaculate for generating a sinless being.

• Mary, as a sinless being, could only then be generated by another sinless being.

• Mary’s mother, therefore, was also immaculate.

• But if Mary’s mother was immaculate and only sinless people can beget immaculate beings, then Mary’s mother’s mother was immaculate too.

• But if Mary’s mother’s mother was immaculate, then…

We already know what this will lead to, in papist “logic.” Do not try to reason with papists too much; otherwise the heads of these “apologists” will explode. This is the sort of reasoning we see from someone who lets the pope reason for them.

This is ludicrous: as is Lucas’ entire article; clueless, out to sea. And it is all these things because this is not how the Catholic Church understands or defends the Immaculate Conception of Mary in the first place. Hence my title. It’s a straw man. Lucas can go out and find Catholic apologists (real and credentialed or so-called / self-proclaimed) who make arguments like this, but so what? What does that prove? It only establishes that:

1) these particular people don’t know what they are talking about,

and

2) they aren’t familiar with how the Church explains this doctrine.

In other words, they’re as ignorant as Lucas is about Catholic Mariology. Consequently, all Lucas “proves” by silly pseudo-“arguments” like this is that there are misinformed or downright ignorant Catholics out there who unwillingly misrepresent Holy Mother Church and Catholic Mariology alike. One can always find such people in any religious group. And this is why one must always document from official ecclesiastical sources.

It’s easy enough to do so. Catholicism teaches that Mary’s Immaculate Conception was not necessary in order for her to bear the incarnate God in the virgin birth. She wasn’t required to be without sin in order to be Jesus’ mother. Rather, the Church teaches that it was appropriate or “fitting” for this to be the case. Mary herself became immaculate, not because of her mother or any other ancestor, but because God chose to perform a special miracle of grace in her case, at the moment of her conception.

It had nothing to do — strictly speaking — with anyone else. Mary herself couldn’t even participate in it since it was at the instant of her conception. Here are actual official, relevant Catholic documents concerning this, rather than “apologetic old wives’ tales”:

Blessed Pope Pius IX, in his 1854 declaration on the Immaculate Conception (Ineffabilis Deus) wrote:

For it was certainly not fitting that this vessel of election should be wounded by the common injuries, since she, differing so much from the others, had only nature in common with them, not sin. In fact, it was quite fitting that, as the Only-Begotten has a Father in heaven, whom the Seraphim extol as thrice holy, so he should have a Mother on earth who would never be without the splendor of holiness.

The Catechism teaches the same:

#722 The Holy Spirit prepared Mary by his grace. It was fitting that the mother of him in whom “the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” should herself be “full of grace.” She was, by sheer grace, conceived without sin as the most humble of creatures, the most capable of welcoming the inexpressible gift of the Almighty. . . .”

This thinking goes back at least as far as St. Anselm (1034-1109). In his treatise On the Virginal Conception, he  expounded the principle on which the doctrine rests in the following words: “It was fitting that the conception of that man (Christ) should be accomplished from a most pure mother. For it was fitting that that Virgin should be resplendent with such a purity, . . .”

2. Mary never sinned, because blessed was the fruit of her womb.

[. . .]

• The law of Deuteronomy 28 says of those who fulfill it that blessed would be the fruit of her womb.

• Mary was told that “blessed is the fruit of her womb”.

• Therefore, Mary never sinned.

This is as silly and insubstantial as Lucas’ first “argument.” Being “blessed” has no intrinsic relationship with a supposed or possible sinlessness. So it’s simply one huge non sequitur (utterly irrelevant consideration), and as such, deserves no further attention. As his source for this ridiculous argument, Lucas cites a comedian (!). This is supposed to be impressive or compelling? I guess that’s highly “fitting”: since his entire article is a joke and a farce.

3. Mary never sinned because she is the perfect tabernacle.

Believe it or not, there are Catholics going around propagating the idea that Mary is the perfect tabernacle of Hebrews 9:11, which says: “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)” (RSV)

This is yet another variant of #1 and #2. I’ve never heard of this wacko argument in 32 years of [real] Catholic apologetics. What informed Catholics argue is that Mary is the “ark of the new covenant”: based on several fascinating scriptural analogies. But even so, it would not be stated that this requires her to be immaculate; only that it was “fitting” for her to be.

4. Mary never sinned, because she is the ark of the covenant.

huh? What? repeat? Is Maria the ark? Really? Really?

I shouldn’t even waste time on this one, which is the most fun of all. Basically, the argument is that the ark of the covenant was a foreshadowing of Mary, because the ark was a symbol of God’s presence, and Mary was the one who begot Jesus.

I agree that he shouldn’t waste time battling straw men. He makes a fool and an ass of himself. But since he has now brought up at least an actual historic Catholic apologetic argument (congratulations!), why don’t we briefly take a look at the real analogical argument, as opposed to Lucas’ caricature of it, along with the obligatory mocking of the straw man. Here are the actual biblical passages where this notion was drawn from:

Luke 1:35 And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.”

The Greek word for overshadow is episkiasei, which describes a bright, glorious cloud. It is used with reference to the cloud of transfiguration of Jesus (Mt 17:5; Mk 9:7; Lk 9:34) and also has a connection to the shekinah glory of God in the Old Testament (Ex 24:15-16; 40:34-38; 1 Ki 8:10). Mary is, therefore, in effect, the new temple and holy of holies, where God was present in a special fashion. In fact, Scripture draws many parallels between Mary, the “ark of the new covenant” and the ark of the (old) covenant:

Exodus 40:34-35 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting, because the cloud abode upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. (cf. 1 Ki 8:6-11)

The Greek Septuagint translation uses the same word, episkiasei, in this passage. There are at least four more direct parallels as well:

2 Samuel 6:9 And David was afraid of the LORD that day; and he said, “How can the ark of the LORD come to me?”

Luke 1:43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

* * *

2 Samuel 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the horn.

Luke 1:42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!”

* * *

2 Samuel 6:14, 16 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. . . . King David leaping and dancing before the LORD . . .

1 Chronicles 15:29 And as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window, and saw King David dancing and making merry . . .

Luke 1:44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy.

* * *

2 Samuel 6:10-11 So David was not willing to take the ark of the LORD into the city of David; but David took it aside to the house of O’bed-e’dom the Gittite. And the ark of the LORD remained in the house of O’bed-e’dom the Gittite three months . . .

Luke 1:39, 56 In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, . . . And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her home.

Further reflection on “holy places” and “holy items” brings out the meaning of the striking parallel symbolism. The Temple and Tabernacle were holy, and this was especially the case with the holy of holies, where the ark was kept. God was said to dwell above the ark, between the two cherubim (Ex 25:22). The presence of God always imparted holiness (Duet 7:6; 26:19; Jer 2:3). The furnishings of the Tabernacle could not be touched by anyone, save a few priests, on pain of death (Num 1:51-53; 2:17; 4:15).

This was true of the holiest things, associated with God and worship of God. The high priest only entered the holy of holies once a year, on the Day of Atonement (Num 29:8). The Jews would tie a rope to his leg in case he perished from improper behavior (Lev 16:2, 13), so they could pull him out. This was true of the ark itself. Uzziah merely reached out to steady it when it was toppling over, and was struck dead (2 Samuel 6:2-7). Others died when they simply looked inside of it (1 Sam 6:19; cf. Ex 33:20).

This is how God regards people and even inanimate objects that are in close proximity to Him. Thus, it was altogether fitting that Mary, as the ark of the new covenant, Theotokos (“bearer of God”): the one who had the sublime honor of carrying God incarnate in her womb, would be exceptionally holy.

. . . it should be noted that nothing in the Bible indicates that the ark typifies anything or anyone . . . with Elijah-John there is still a biblical confirmation of the typology, while with the “ark-Mary” there is absolutely nothing.

Right. I provided four striking analogies above, that puts the lie to this claim.

And even if the ark did typify Mary because the ark carried the presence of God and Mary begat Jesus, we could do the exact same thing and spiritualize the biblical texts to the point where we are all “arks”, because Paul told us that, spiritually, Christ is formed within all Christians, not just in Mary: “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Galatians 4:19)

Indeed, God says that we are “God’s temple” because the Holy Spirit, and the Father and the Son as well, live within us. Lucas finally stumbles upon some truth, but (sorry!) it only helps the Catholic Mariological case:

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? [17] If any one destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and that temple you are.

1 Corinthians 6:17-20 But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. [18] Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. [19] Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; [20] you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

2 Corinthians 6:15-17 What accord has Christ with Be’lial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? [16] What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean;
then I will welcome you,

See how holiness and proximity to God go hand-in-hand? This is precisely the Catholic point about Mary bearing God the Son; the incarnate God. Perfect holiness is plainly highly appropriate; though not absolutely necessary, as explained. St. Paul nails down that point in his analyses of the indwelling Holy Spirit in all Christian believers, in noting that this should cause us to “shun immorality” and “glorify God in your body” and be “one spirit with him” and “come out from them, and be separate from them”: all because we are temples of the Holy Spirit.

And how is this at all inconsistent with — let alone a disproof of — the notion that it was fitting for Mary to be without sin because she bore God the Son in her body for nine months? It was because God knew that Mary would almost certainly fall into sin like all of us, but for His special act of grace at her conception, that He did that, so that she would be a perfectly holy vessel for the incarnate God: as is utterly appropriate and fitting. It’s absolutely pure “monergistic” grace. Mary knew and did absolutely nothing to receive it, because it was simultaneous with the supernatural creation of her soul and the natural, biological beginning of existence of her body. It was all God, and all grace.

Nor is it at all implausible, “unbiblical” or inconceivable. After all, it merely made Mary like Eve: without sin, and before having committed original sin. This is why the fathers and Catholics call Mary the “new Eve” or “second Eve.” The first one said “no” to God. Mary said “yes.” A sinless person or creature is not impossible. They exist on the earth today, as I write. Adam and Eve were, the unfallen angels have always been sinless, children under the age of reason (in a sense) are, as well as some who are severely mentally disabled, and indeed all of us who are granted final salvation and eternal life will be sinless in heaven.

This is the problem with interpreting the Bible in overly typological terms: we can put anything in it. Even the insanity that Mary was an ark, or that we all are.

It’s not “insanity” at all. It’s an explicit biblical analogy, expressed in several ways. Lucas thinks that is insane. Catholics take all of the Bible very seriously, rather than picking and choosing only what we personally prefer, based on an existing predisposition even before we get to Holy Scripture. And we are all “arks” in an even greater sense: being temples of God the Holy Spirit and all three Persons of the Trinity (many other passages indicate). This is all based on abundant scriptural proof.

5- Mary never sinned, because the Bible does not say that Mary sinned

Wow! What a fantastic argument! So let’s see how many people have never sinned either: [he names twenty]

It’s true that the Bible never shows Mary sinning (though various failed arguments to that end have been attempted; I have a whole section about that on my Blessed Virgin Mary web page). Absence of positive evidence would be the notoriously weak “argument from silence” (I agree). But belief in Mary’s sinlessness is based on much more than we have for these other twenty people. I have made several “Bible-Only” arguments for the sinlessness of Mary. The key is her being “full of grace” (Luke 1:28). Rightly understood, that is a positive proof that she was without sin:

Luke 1:28 (“Full of Grace”) & Immaculate Conception [2004]

The Bible: Mary Was Without Sin [4-1-09]

Mary’s Immaculate Conception: A Biblical Argument [2010]

Annunciation: Was Mary Already Sublimely Graced? [10-8-11]

Biblical Support for Mary’s Immaculate Conception [National Catholic Register, 10-29-18]

A “Biblical” Immaculate Conception? (vs. James White) [8-27-21]

As we see, Lucas gets to one of the actual Catholic arguments (Luke 1:28) next (congratulations again, for actually avoiding irrelevant and absurd straw man battles!):

6-Mary never sinned, because she was full of grace.

So Stephen also never sinned: “And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.” (Acts 6:8)

In that verse, the phrase is plērēs charitos [πλήρης χάριτος], not kecharitōmenē [κεχαριτωμένη], as in Luke 1:28. If the Greek terminology is different, then the argument loses most or all of its relevance and force. The perfect stem of a Greek verb [as with kecharitōmenē], denotes, according to Friedrich Blass and Albert DeBrunner, “continuance of a completed action” (Greek Grammar of the New Testament [Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1961], 66). Mary, therefore, continues afterward to be full of the grace she possessed at the time of the Annunciation.

Nor the Corinthians: “And God is able to provide you with every blessing in abundance, so that you may always have enough of everything and may provide in abundance for every good work.” (2 Corinthians 9:8)

This gets back to the generalized and non-literal meaning of “all”: as discussed above. Lucas’ translation, rendered into English, is: “And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that, always having all sufficiency in all things, you may abound to every good work”. But here the phrase is pasan charin [πᾶσαν χάριν], so it’s not the same as Luke 1:28, which is unique.

Nor the Ephesians: “to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.” (Eph.1:6)

Lucas’ translation (transferred to English) reads in part: “he has filled us with grace”. In looking at about 35 English translations of Ephesians 1:6, I never see the word “filled” in any of them. In any event, it’s again a different Greek construction. According to Marvin Vincent, a well-known Protestant linguist and expert on biblical Greek, the meaning is:

. . . not “endued us with grace,” nor “made us worthy of love,” but, as “grace – which he freely bestowed.” (Word Studies in the New Testament, III, 365)

Vincent indicates different meanings for the word grace in Luke 1:28 and Ephesians 1:6. A.T. Robertson also defines the word in the same fashion, as “he freely bestowed” (Word Pictures in the New Testament, IV, 518). Here the phrase is charitos autou hēs echaritōsen [χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐχαρίτωσεν].

As for the grace bestowed here on all believers being parallel to the fullness of grace bestowed upon the Blessed Virgin Mary, this simply cannot logically be the case, once proper exegesis is undertaken. Apart from the different meanings of the specific word used, as shown, grace is possessed in different measure by different believers, as seen elsewhere in Scripture:

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Ephesians 4:7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. (cf. Acts 4:33, Rom 5:20, 6:1, James 4:6, 1 Pet 5:5, 2 Peter 1:2)

The “freely bestowed” grace of Ephesians 1:6, then, cannot possibly be considered the equivalent of that “fullness of grace” applied to Mary in Luke 1:28 because it refers to a huge group of people, with different gifts and various levels of grace bestowed, as the verses just cited show. Grace is given in different measure to believers. The mass of Christian believers as a whole possess neither the same degree of grace nor of sanctity, and everyone knows this, from experience and revelation alike.

Nor the apostles: “And with great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.” (Acts 4:33)

“Great” or “abundant” grace is obviously not the same as “full of grace.” Accordingly, different Greek words are again used, as in all these supposed “disproofs” of the Catholic argument from Luke 1:28: charis te megalē [χάρις τε μεγάλη]. So why does Lucas even bring this up? It’s dumb: as if he wants to maintain that a “glass that is three-quarters full” is the same as a glass that is absolutely full: to the brim.” It just doesn’t fly.

Neither do the readers of the gospel of John: “And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace.” (John 1:16)

Nice try but no cigar again. The Greek phrase is plērōmatos . . . charin [πληρώματος . . . χάριν]. If the Holy Spirit, Who inspired the revelation of the Bible, intended for all these passages to have the same exact meaning as Luke 1:28, then the same or equivalent words would have been used. But the fact remains that none of these other “parallels” read the same or mean the same as Luke 1:28. I’m happy to have this opportunity to clarify that and refute the failed analogies once and for all.

If Mary fulfilled all the law, Jesus would not be necessary

It is precisely because no one was able to fulfill all the law that God had to send His only begotten Son “that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life” (Jn.3:16). If Mary, or any human being in the world, had managed to live without committing any sin, fully fulfilling all the law, and had been born without the stain of original sin, then Jesus would be unnecessary . . . 

We totally agree. Mary would have been subject to original sin like all of the rest of us, and would very likely have committed actual sin, if God had not performed a special miracle of freeing her from original sin at conception. So He saved her as much as He saved the rest of us. One can save a person from a pit in two ways: by pulling him or her out of it, or by preventing him or her from ever falling into it in the first place. The “pit” here is a metaphor for sin. The Immaculate Conception is “salvation by prevention.”

For the rest of us who are to be saved, it comes by pulling us out of — redeeming or rescuing us from — the pit of sin that we were already in. That’s why Mary calls God her Savior, too: because His grace saved her just like it saved anyone else who attains salvation and makes it to heaven.

The rest of this section from Lucas is irrelevant, since he fails to understand this fundamental premise that has been discussed in theology for about a thousand years: the notion of “pre-redemption.” Catholics believe Mary was saved only by God’s grace, too: just in a different fashion. She is not “out of the pool” of those saved by Grace Alone. She was a human being like all the rest of us: whom God decreed and chose to make exceptionally holy because she was the Mother of God the Son; the “God-bearer” (Theotokos).

Lucas then repeats his “all have sinned” mantra. I already dealt with that. but here’s one specific (old, tired) aspect that I will directly reply to:

Paul said that there was no one who was completely perfect: “as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands, no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one.”” (Romans 3:10-12)

Psalm 14:2-3 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God. [3] They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, [Hebrew, tob] no not one. (cf. 53:1-3; Paul cites this in Rom 3:10-12)

Yet in the immediately preceding Psalm, David proclaims, “I have trusted in thy steadfast love” (13:5), which certainly is “seeking” after God! And in the very next he refers to “He who walk blamelessly, and does what is right” (15:2). Even two verses later (14:5) he writes that “God is with the generation of the righteous.” So obviously his lament in 14:2-3 is an indignant hyperbole and not intended as a literal utterance.

Such remarks are common to Hebrew poetic idiom. The anonymous psalmist in 112:5-6 refers to the “righteous” (Heb. tob), as does the book of Proverbs repeatedly: using the words “righteous” or “good” (11:23; 12:2; 13:22; 14:14, 19), using the same word, tob, which appears in Psalm 14:2-3. References to righteous men are innumerable (e.g., Job 17:9; 22:19; Ps 5:12; 32:11; 34:15; 37:16, 32; Mt 9:13; 13:17; 25:37, 46; Rom 5:19; Heb 11:4; Jas 5:16; 1 Pet 3:12; 4:18, etc.).

With Adam’s death, all men sinned (note: the word anthropos denotes all mankind, obviously not excluding women when saying that “all men have sinned”): “Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned” (Romans 5:12)

That’s referring to original sin, which is precisely what God removed from Mary at conception. That is the miracle and essence of the Immaculate Conception.

3. The Bible only makes an exception for Jesus

Another important point is that the only person for whom the Bible makes an exception is the obvious exception: Jesus.

“For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews 4:15)

“Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?” (John 8:46)

Neither of these verses rule out the possibility of a sinless person besides Jesus. They merely assert that He was sinless. Lucas’ description of “only” is misguided. It doesn’t follow from what he presents.

Why, then, did no one make the same exception for Mary, especially considering that it was not at all obvious that she was also an exception to the rule?

One did make an exception for Mary: the angel Gabriel in Luke 1:28. He was the one who referred to her in inspired revelation as “full of grace.” And when we analyze in the Bible the notion that grace is the antithesis and overcomer of sin, we conclude that, therefore, being full of grace means being freed from and free of sin. See:

Romans 5:17, 21 If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. . . . [21] so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

2 Corinthians 1:12 . . . holiness and godly sincerity, . . . by the grace of God.

2 Timothy 1:9 who saved us and called us with a holy calling, . . . in virtue of his own purpose and the grace which he gave us in Christ Jesus ages ago,

Lucas has a section called “Mary needed a Savior”; but he exhibits not the slightest inkling of understanding that Catholics fully agree with this (since we, too, revere the Bible as God’s inspired revelation, and read Luke 1:47 just as Protestants do), and how we reason through it. Now (if he reads this) he will understand that, so perhaps he can write a much more serious and worthy analysis next time, instead of forcing me to have to “reinvent the wheel” because he is so profoundly and inexcusably ignorant of historic and Catholic and biblical theology.

In order to be an effective apologist, one must possess this sort of basic knowledge (I’ve been doing Christian apologetics for 41 years, and specifically Catholic apologetics for 32). And until they obtain it, they ought to drop the pretense of being an informed apologist: trying to educate others. Otherwise, it’s the blind leading the blind, similar to the people St. Paul described as those “who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim 3:7), or whose “god is the belly” (Phil 3:19: one of my very favorite Bible verses!).

6. Mary could not open the seal, nor look at it

In Revelation, John sees a scroll in the form of a scroll written on both sides and sealed with seven seals. He then says:

“and I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” [3] And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, [4] and I wept much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to into into it. [5] Then one of the elders said to me, “Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”‘” (Revelation 5:2-5)

Note that no one except Jesus was worthy to open the book or even look at it! John is quite clear in saying that the reason such people could not even look at the book is because they were not worthy of it.

First of all, this doesn’t necessarily have to do with sinlessness. Being “worthy” to do something can also be related to suitability, ability, appropriateness, etc. The word for “worthy” is axios (Strong’s word #514). It has been translated also as “appropriate” (Acts 26:20: NASB) and “fitting” (1 Cor 16:4; 2 Thess 1:3: NASB).

But beyond that preliminary consideration, Jesus opened the scroll because He was God. Lucas is looking at this passage one-dimensionally. The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch, 2nd edition, 2010) commented on it:

Christ qualifies as the executor of the Old Covenant (Rev 5:9) with divine authority to administer its blessings and curses. The sealed book refers to Sacred Scripture, for it was opened by no one except Christ, whose death, Resurrection, and Ascension opened access to all the mysteries it contained. (p. 499)

Obviously Mary has none of those divine qualities, and so she (like every other creature) was not “worthy” to open the scroll. She can’t do what only God the Son can do. This contradicts nothing in Catholic Mariology. As the above citation vaguely alludes to, the larger passage literally explains why only Jesus could open the scroll and break the seal. It “authoritatively interprets” the passage under consideration: “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God” (5:9). Isn’t it amazing how much a little biblical context clarifies things? Lucas should try it some time.

The question then becomes: why is Lucas making this issue an anti-Mary polemic, when she clearly has nothing to do with it, since the Bible itself says that Jesus had to do this since only He was “slain” in order for His “blood” to “ransom men for God” (i.e., He alone was the Redeemer and Savior)? Thus all of Lucas’ mocking and tweaking histrionics and melodramatic polemics about Catholic veneration of Mary are utterly and completely irrelevant:

Queen of Heaven, immaculate, totally without any stain of sin throughout her life, the mother of God himself(!) and the wife of the Holy Spirit(!), the helper, the intercessor, the “mother” of all Christians, the perfect “ark”, the mediatrix of graces and even co-redeemer . . . full of grace and a more important person than all the saints and all the angels put together . . . 

Yes she is all that, and (duh!) none of it makes her God (not within a trillion miles), Whom alone could open this seal, per Revelation 5:9. Why does “mother of God” deserve an exclamation point, as if it is some amazing thing? Mary was Jesus’ mother and He was God. Hence, she was the “mother of God”: literally “God-bearer”: which clearly applies only to Jesus, not the Father (neither the father nor the Holy Spirit had a mother: since they are eternal and immaterial spirits). Why is this controversial? It should be only to someone who denies the Trinity or the incarnation.

“Wife of the Holy Spirit” should ruffle no feathers, either. It’s entirely biblical. Scripture speaks in terms of the bride being the Church, and makes analogies between marriage and Christ and His Church. So why should there be controversy about Mary being the spouse of the Holy Spirit? That Jesus’ conception was of the Holy Spirit as a sort of “Father” is plain in the Bible:

Matthew 1:18-20 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; [19] and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. [20] But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit;” (cf. Lk 1:31, 34-35)

Likewise, “spouse of God” is thought to imply an equality with God, when in fact it’s only a limited analogical description based on Mary’s relation to the Holy Spirit in the matter of the conception of Jesus. This description is no more “unbiblical” or non-harmonious with scriptural thought than St. Paul saying “we are God’s fellow workers” (1 Cor 3:9; cf. 2 Cor 6:1), or St. Peter referring to men becoming “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet 1:4; cf. 1 Jn 3:2). These are similarly understood as not entailing equality with God. Along these lines, there are many biblical passages about Israel or the Church being the “bride” of God the Father or Jesus Christ, God the Son:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; . . .

Isaiah 62:5 . . . as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall your God rejoice over you.

Jeremiah 31:32 . . . my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD. (cf. 3:20)

Hosea 2:16, 19-20 “And in that day, says the LORD, you will call me, `My husband,’ and no longer will you call me, `My Ba’al.’ . . . [19] And I will betroth you to me for ever; . . . (cf. 4:12; 9:1)

Matthew 9:15 And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them?” (cf. Mk 2:19-20; Lk 5:34-35; Mt 25:1-10)

2 Corinthians 11:2 I feel a divine jealousy for you, for I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her one husband.

Ephesians 5:28-29, 32 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [29] For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, . . . [32] This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church (cf. Rev 19:7; 21:2; 21:9)

Given all of this biblical data, saying that Mary is the “spouse of God” should not present any difficulty at all to anyone who accepts the Bible as God’s inspired revelation. The only possible objection would come from not understanding what is meant by the phrase in the first place. And as usual, that is Lucas’ problem, and that of the legion of anti-Catholic “Know-Nothings” with whom he hangs around. Willful ignorance and bigotry apparently have a very strong hold on a great number of people. I try my best to educate folks, so they can be freed from this  intolerable burden and yoke that people like Lucas perpetuate. Truth is the liberator!

“E for effort” though, and thanks for the chuckles. I needed some comic relief at this point, having endured only by God’s grace the fathomless imbecilities and vapid, fatuous nonsense that relentlessly dominates this wretched effort from Lucas.  Some may think I exaggerate. But I think it’s an understatement. Finally — thank heavens –, I reach the final section (thanks for your prayers for my patience!):

7. Mary recognized herself as a sinner

Another New Testament evidence that Mary did not consider herself immaculate, but saw herself as a sinner, just like all other human beings, is in Luke 2:24, which says: “and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, “a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.”” 

By the law the iniquity of the woman who had given birth was atoned for in this way:

“And when the days of her purifying are completed, whether for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the door of the tent of meeting a lamb a year old for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering, [7] and he shall offer it before the LORD, and make atonement for her; then she shall be clean from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, either male or female. [8] And if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.” (Leviticus 12:6-8). [Lucas mistakenly had “2:6-8”]

If Mary were immaculate, the only sacrifice needed would be that of one pigeon for the holocaust, but never of the other, which was for sins. Mary, once again, shows that she recognized herself as a sinner.

The question involves the relationship of ritual uncleanliness to sin and morality. They are two different things. A Catholic priest who goes by the name of AthanasiusOfAlex explains:

In summary, in Israel, so-called “sin” offerings were offered for transgressions against the ritual law, not so much for offenses against the moral law.

Moreover, just as Jesus submitted himself to the baptism of John, even though he did not need to repent of any sins, Mary wished to fulfill the requirements of the Jewish law out of loving obedience to God.

There is, therefore, no contradiction between Mary’s sinlessness (in the moral sense) and her offering a sacrifice to remove the merely ritual impurity associated with childbirth. . . .

In ancient Israel, women were considered ritually unclean for a few weeks after the birth of her child. (It varied according to the sex of the child; a total of 40 days for a boy, and 80 days for a girl. See vv. 2-6.) That essentially meant that they were unable to partake of the liturgical celebrations until their uncleanliness was over, at which time they were to make a sin offering, or either a lamb or a pair of pigeons or turtledoves (vv. 6-8).

But it is important to note that ritual uncleanliness had nothing to do with moral uncleanliness. Leviticus chapter 4 introduces the concept of sin offerings in this way:

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If anyone sins unintentionally in any of the Lord’s commandments about things not to be done, and does any one of them, if it is the anointed priest who sins … [and it goes on to spell out what each group should do] (Lev. 4:1-3).

Sin offering could only be offered for unintentional transgressions and, in general for the removal of ritual uncleanliness. There was, in fact, no provision in the Law for the forgiveness of moral offenses—and this lack was one of the constant sufferings of the People of Israel. . . .

It should be observed that the Law did not make any exceptions. The moral character of the woman was never considered; all women had to make the sin offering after childbirth. . . .

Jesus did something similar when he received the baptism of John. Jesus was also sinless and (unlike Mary) incapable of sinning; and yet he received the baptism of repentance, because it was “fitting … to fulfill all righteousness” (Mt. 3:15). (“How does one reconcile the sinlessness of Mary with her sin offering in Luke 2:24?”Christianity.StackExchange, answer given on 9-15-15)

With regard to the differentiation of moral and ritual impurities or uncleanliness in the Old Testament, in RSV, the word “unwittingly” is applied 13 times to sins where the person was unaware of having committed them. Peter Turner offered another answer on the same web page, on 5-4-18:

Archbishop Fulton Sheen addresses this in his Life of Christ. He notes that this is akin to the Circumcision of Jesus, he says these are two sides sin, one “the necessity of enduring pain to expiate for it” and the “need for purification”. He says that Jesus didn’t need to be circumcised because He was God and she didn’t need to be purified because she was conceived without sin. But, to show “this Child’s dedication to the Father was absolute, and would lead Him to the Cross” all those events took place.

Pastor Ricky Kurth, in his article, “Did Christ Offer Animal Sacrifices?” (Berean Bible Society) offers further analogies of the sinless Christ also participating in such Mosaic rituals:

[T]he Law required men to keep the seven feasts of Leviticus 23, each of which involved an animal sacrifice, and we know the Lord kept Israel’s feasts (Luke 22:15; John 7:2,10). These sacrifices were offered for the people of Israel as a whole, and He was one of the people, and so in this way He identified with them with animal sacrifices.

See also: Protestant Claim: “Mary was a Sinner Because She Offered a Sacrifice” [Kris Smith, Da Pacem Domine, 3-15-20].

I rest my case.

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

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Photo credit: Immaculate Conception (1635), by Francisco de Zurbarán (1598-1664) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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Summary: Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli foolishly attacks the sinlessness of the Blessed Virgin Mary by absurdly battling several imaginary “Mariological straw men.”

 

2022-04-25T14:36:17-04:00

Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Executive Director of the popular Just & Sinner YouTube channel, and the President of the American Lutheran Theological Seminary (which holds to a doctrinally traditional Lutheranism, similar to the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod). He has authored several books, as well as theological articles in a variety of publications.

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I will be responding to the first “papacy portion” of Jordan’s YouTube video, “Five Reasons I Am Not Roman Catholic” (1-27-19). When I cite his words directly, they will be in blue, and citations and descriptions of his arguments will be accompanied by the time in the video as well.

1) The Papacy.  . . . The claims regarding the papacy I simply don’t see as historically verifiable, and I also do not see them exegetically.  I don’t see them as being taught in Scripture. . . . Matthew 16 is the one that’s often pointed to.  . . . Even if you are to argue that Peter is indeed the Rock, . . . that still does not prove that there is any truth to the claims about the successors of St. Peter. [1:08-2:32]

See my papers, for the general Catholic “Petrine” or “papal” argument from Scripture:

50 New Testament Proofs for Petrine Primacy & the Papacy [1994]

Primacy of St. Peter Verified by Protestant Scholars [1994]

Can Christ & Peter Both be “Rocks”? [4-21-22]

See also: “Protestant Scholars on Matthew 16:16-19” (Nicholas Hardesty) [9-4-06]

As to papal succession, most Christians agree that St. Peter was the leader of the early Church and the disciples: whether they believe he was a “pope” or not. It stands to reason, then, that there would continue to be a leader, just as there was a first President when the laws of the United States were established at the Constitutional Convention in 1787.

Why have one President and then cease to have one thereafter and let the executive branch of government exist without a leader? Everyone understands that there is then a succession of Presidents and that it doesn’t end with the first one and the prototype.

So why do people think so differently when it comes to Christianity, which is in need of a governing body and person at the top of the chain of authority, just as any effective organization whatever has? Catholics are, therefore, applying common sense: if this is how Jesus set up the government of His Church in the beginning, then it ought to continue in like fashion, in perpetuity.

If indeed an office of the pope was truly intended to be set up by Jesus, why in the world would anyone think it was solely for the lifetime of Peter and then it would vanish? The Church supposedly had a supervisor for ten, twenty years, but then never did again? That makes no sense. What would be the point?

When other offices are referred to in the Bible (excepting the apostles and perhaps prophets: but there is a biblical argument that bishops are the successors of the apostles), they were clearly regarded as permanent and ongoing (deacons, elders, pastors / priests / bishops). By analogy, then, it follows that this office is perpetual, just as the others are. It also makes sense to have a chief bishop.

Moreover, the very nature of the concept of office is that it is larger than one mere person who occupies it: even the first and most extraordinary one who does. It’s quite obvious that Jesus’ commissioning of Peter was the creation of a new office or position: having to do with the governance of the Church and jurisdiction and power.

Moreover, the consensus of Bible scholars today (including Protestants) is that the notion of “keys of the kingdom of heaven” given to Peter by Jesus (Mt 16:19) hearkens back to the Old Testament:

Isaiah 22:22-24 (RSV) And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. [23] And I will fasten him like a peg in a sure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his father’s house. [24] And they will hang on him the whole weight of his father’s house, the offspring and issue, every small vessel, from the cups to all the flagons. (cf. 36:3, 22)

This was a supervisory office. The great Protestant Bible scholar, F. F. Bruce observed:

The keys of a royal or noble establishment were entrusted to the chief steward or majordomo; . . . About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim . . . (Isa. 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward. (The Hard Sayings of Jesus, Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1983, 143-144)

If the direct analogy understood in the commission refers to an office itself inherently possessing succession, as a matter of historical fact (according to Old Testament scholars and ancient Near East historians), then it follows that the papacy also has succession as one of its inherent characteristics. This is purely logical and based on facts concerning the office that is the basis of the analogy. In that sense it is even explicit in Scripture.

Jordan then talked about how there are bishops in the NT and Church history, and that this is good. At that point, I ask again: why have leaders in local churches, but not one leader of the whole Church? Why have a leader of the disciples, but not a leader of the bishops, who were the successors of the disciples / apostles? I would say that in fact we observe Peter acting as such a leader of the Church throughout the first half of the book of Acts and in the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15).

We see him writing very much as a pope would write in his First Epistle, which was written from Rome in general homiletic, or “hortatory” fashion (though not to all Christian inhabitants of the known world, which is not required for my point to stand) as (according to Guthrie and The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary) a “circular letter” (much like a papal encyclical is today). In fact, if we look up encyclical in the dictionary, we find that it comes from the Latin encyclicus and the Greek enkyklios, meaning, literally, “in a circle, general, common, for general circulation.” The word encyclopedia is derived from the same root. Renowned Protestant Bible scholar J. B. Lightfoot comments on this passage as follows:

St. Peter, giving directions to the elders, claims a place among them. The title ‘fellow-presbyter,’ which he applies to himself, would doubtless recall to the memory of his readers the occasions when he himself had presided with the elders and guided their deliberations. (St. Paul’s Epistle to the Philippians, Lynn, Massachusett: Hendrickson Pub., 1982, 198; emphasis added)

Furthermore, we have St. Clement of Rome decidedly acting like a pope before 100 AD in his letter to the Corinthians:

Pope St. Clement of Rome & Papal Authority [7-28-21]

Is First Clement Non-Papal? (vs. Jason Engwer) [4-19-22]

Jordan argues that early Church documents don’t refer to a pope. For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch doesn’t seem to be aware of a pope. But he ignores the strong evidence of 1 Clement, which is very early as well. St. John Henry Cardinal Newman offers a cogent explanation as to why the papacy is rather subdued and manifest relatively less in the earlier centuries of the Church (and specifically a reason for Ignatius’ silence on the matter):

Let us see how, on the principles which I have been laying down and defending, the evidence lies for the Pope’s supremacy.
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As to this doctrine the question is this, whether there was not from the first a certain element at work, or in existence, divinely sanctioned, which, for certain reasons, did not at once show itself upon the surface of ecclesiastical affairs, and of which events in the fourth century are the development; and whether the evidence of its existence and operation, which does occur in the earlier centuries, be it much or little, is not just such as ought to occur upon such an hypothesis.
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For instance, it is true, St. Ignatius is silent in his Epistles on the subject of the Pope’s authority; but if in fact that authority could not be in active operation then, such silence is not so difficult to account for as the silence of Seneca or Plutarch about Christianity itself, or of Lucian about the Roman people. St. Ignatius directed his doctrine according to the need. While Apostles were on earth, there was the display neither of Bishop nor Pope; their power had no prominence, as being exercised by Apostles. In course of time, first the power of the Bishop displayed itself, and then the power of the Pope. . . .
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St. Peter’s prerogative would remain a mere letter, till the complication of ecclesiastical matters became the cause of ascertaining it. While Christians were “of one heart and soul,” it would be suspended; love dispenses with laws . . .
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When the Church, then, was thrown upon her own resources, first local disturbances gave exercise to Bishops, and next ecumenical disturbances gave exercise to Popes; and whether communion with the Pope was necessary for Catholicity would not and could not be debated till a suspension of that communion had actually occurred. It is not a greater difficulty that St. Ignatius does not write to the Asian Greeks about Popes, than that St. Paul does not write to the Corinthians about Bishops. And it is a less difficulty that the Papal supremacy was not formally acknowledged in the second century, than that there was no formal acknowledgment on the part of the Church of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity till the fourth. No doctrine is defined till it is violated . . .
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Moreover, an international bond and a common authority could not be consolidated, were it ever so certainly provided, while persecutions lasted. If the Imperial Power checked the development of Councils, it availed also for keeping back the power of the Papacy. The Creed, the Canon, in like manner, both remained undefined. The Creed, the Canon, the Papacy, Ecumenical Councils, all began to form, as soon as the Empire relaxed its tyrannous oppression of the Church. And as it was natural that her monarchical power should display itself when the Empire became Christian, so was it natural also that further developments of that power should take place when that Empire fell. Moreover, when the power of the Holy See began to exert itself, disturbance and collision would be the necessary consequence . . . as St. Paul had to plead, nay, to strive for his apostolic authority, and enjoined St. Timothy, as Bishop of Ephesus, to let no man despise him: so Popes too have not therefore been ambitious because they did not establish their authority without a struggle. It was natural that Polycrates should oppose St. Victor; and natural too that St. Cyprian should both extol the See of St. Peter, yet resist it when he thought it went beyond its province . . .
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On the whole, supposing the power to be divinely bestowed, yet in the first instance more or less dormant, a history could not be traced out more probable, more suitable to that hypothesis, than the actual course of the controversy which took place age after age upon the Papal supremacy.
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It will be said that all this is a theory. Certainly it is: it is a theory to account for facts as they lie in the history, to account for so much being told us about the Papal authority in early times, and not more; a theory to reconcile what is and what is not recorded about it; and, which is the principal point, a theory to connect the words and acts of the Ante-nicene Church with that antecedent probability of a monarchical principle in the Divine Scheme, and that actual exemplification of it in the fourth century, which forms their presumptive interpretation. All depends on the strength of that presumption. Supposing there be otherwise good reason for saying that the Papal Supremacy is part of Christianity, there is nothing in the early history of the Church to contradict it . . .
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Moreover, all this must be viewed in the light of the general probability, so much insisted on above, that doctrine cannot but develop as time proceeds and need arises, and that its developments are parts of the Divine system, and that therefore it is lawful, or rather necessary, to interpret the words and deeds of the earlier Church by the determinate teaching of the later. (Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1878 edition, Univ. of Notre Dame Press, 1989, pp. 148-155; Part 1, Chapter 4, Section 3)
And of course Catholics would ask Lutherans: there is no patristic evidence for sola Scriptura, sola fide (justification by faith alone), consubstantiation, or any number of other Lutheran doctrines that appeared suddenly in the 16th century (indeed, even by the time of the Diet of Worm in 1521). That doesn’t, however, make you stop believing in those doctrines? Why? Why the difference of principle with regard to the papacy, where there is actually more early evidence than for your Lutheran distinctives?
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When you look at the earlier ecumenical councils, like the council of Nicaea [325], the bishop of Rome has no clear role there, not a strong one. It’s clear that the other bishops aren’t looking to Rome as the ultimate source of authority or truth. [4:28-4:43]

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I debated this with Reformed anti-Catholic apologist James White way back in August 1997:

Pope Silvester and the Council of Nicaea (vs. James White)

See also the related: “Papal Authority at the Earliest Councils” (Fr. Brian Harrison, Catholic Answers, 1-1-91)
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You see this going back to the book of Acts: the council of Jerusalem; it’s James who is really heading up that particular council, not Peter. [4:42-4:52]
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From Acts 15, we learn that “after there was much debate, Peter rose” to address the assembly (15:7). The Bible records his speech, which goes on for five verses. Then it reports that “all the assembly kept silence” (15:12). Paul and Barnabas speak next, not making authoritative pronouncements, but confirming Peter’s exposition, speaking about “signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles” (15:12). Then when James speaks, he refers right back to what “Simeon [Peter] has related” (15:14). To me, this suggests that Peter’s talk was central and definitive. James speaking last could easily be explained by the fact that he was the bishop of Jerusalem and therefore the “host.”
St. Peter indeed had already received a relevant revelation, related to the council. God gave him a vision of the cleanness of all foods (contrary to the Jewish Law: see Acts 10:9-16). St. Peter is already learning about the relaxation of Jewish dietary laws, and is eating with uncircumcised men, and is ready to proclaim the gospel widely to the Gentiles (Acts 10 and 11).
This was the secondary decision of the Jerusalem Council, and Peter referred to his experiences with the Gentiles at the council (Acts 15:7-11). The council then decided — with regard to food –, to prohibit only that which “has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled” (15:29).
He notes that the Church fathers, by and large, do not interpret Matthew 16 in a papal manner, but this is not at all fatal to the Catholic claims (or even any sort of difficulty), per my reasoning in a recent reply to a Reformed Protestant: James Swan, St. Augustine & “This Rock” [4-19-22].
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Practical Matters
: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

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Photo credit: Christ Handing the Keys to St. Peter (1481-1482), by Pietro Perugino (1448-1523) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]
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Summary: Response to Jordan Cooper’s rejection of the papacy, in his video, “Five Reasons I Am Not Roman Catholic”: showing his reasons to be weak & able to be refuted.
2021-11-16T16:30:16-04:00

Jason Engwer is a Protestant and anti-Catholic apologist, who runs the Tribalblogue site. I am responding to his article, If Jesus was teaching a physical presence in the eucharist, why didn’t he explain it better? (11-11-21). His words will be in blue.

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John 6:47-66 (RSV) “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. [48] I am the bread of life. [49] Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. [50] This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” [52] The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [53] So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. [58] This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” [59] This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Caper’na-um. [60] Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” [61] But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? [62] Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? [63] It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [64] But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. [65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”[66] After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

Advocates of a physical presence of Christ in the eucharist often suggest that he couldn’t have made the concept much clearer than he did, that he should have made some other view of the eucharist clearer if he had some other view in mind, and so forth.

Yes we do, and for very good reason, as I shall show.

For example, we’ll be asked what could be clearer than what Jesus said in John 6. Or if Jesus wasn’t teaching a physical eucharistic presence there, then why didn’t he clarify that fact, especially after people expressed their opposition to such an interpretation of his comments (6:52, 6:60) and some abandoned him (6:66)? 

Good question! Why didn’t He? Certainly Jesus wouldn’t have let disciples wander off and stop following Him based on a mere misunderstanding. But the thing is He knew their hearts, and He knew it wasn’t misunderstanding. It was flat-out rebellion and rejection of His teaching. He also knew that wrangling with them further would accomplish exactly nothing.

Or what could be clearer than Jesus’ words at the Last Supper? And so on.

Indeed. Luther thought they were absolutely plain and clear and marveled at how Zwingli (the first modern “low church” Protestant) could try to rationalize and spiritualize them away.

It should be noted that the claim that Jesus didn’t clarify himself in John 6 needs to be argued, not just asserted.

I’ve done so many times:

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Transubstantiation, John 6, Faith and Rebellion [National Catholic Register, 12-3-17]
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I would reply to Jason that Protestants need to interact with the sorts of arguments that I provide above (and will again presently) and not pretend that they don’t exist or that they don’t pose a problem for their historically novel views.
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Why think that comments like those in 6:35 . . . aren’t meant to clarify that he wasn’t referring to physically eating his body?

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.

Catholics and other believers in the Real Substantial Bodily Presence think that He was only making typical Hebrew analogy / prototype in the early part of John 6, drawing a parallel to the ancient Hebrews being sustained by manna. Knowing that His responders would bring up manna, He said:

Jesus 6:26-27 . . . “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. [27] Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal.”

Protestants like Jason will argue that the analogy is as follows:

1) Physical bread (and later reference to manna: 6:49-51) that sustains our physical bodies.

2) Spiritual food (belief in Jesus) sustaining and saving our souls and leading to eternal life.

So in this view it is a physical food with physical effect compared to (as opposites of a sort) to non-physical belief with a spiritual effect of eternal life. But the defender of substantial presence interprets it as follows:

1) Physical bread (and later reference to manna: 6:49-51) that sustains our physical bodies.

2) Spiritual (but also sacramentally physical) food (the body of Jesus) sustaining and saving our souls and leading to eternal life.

We deny that statements such as those by Jesus in 6:27 and 6:35 are merely symbolic. And why do we think that? Context is a key factor in determining the meaning, as always in Scripture. Jesus makes it abundantly clear what He means by “food” later on in His discourse:

John 6:55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He is equally clear that He is referring to eating, not merely believing in Him (which is also a necessity). First, He emphasizes belief and faith in Him, and “coming” to Him (6:29, 35-36, 40, 44-45, 47, and reiterated in 6:64-65). John 6:27, with its reference to “food” was a “preview”, so to speak, of what is to come. Then in John 6:50-58 He starts speaking specifically about eating His flesh and not just believing in Him, and mentions “eat[s]” seven times and “drink[s]” four times in eight verses where He is speaking, with 6:55 (above) also referring again to “food”: for a total of twelve references to eating and drinking in eight verses. This is why we believe it has a physical element as well as non-physical:

John 6:50-58 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” [52] The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [53] So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. [58] This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”

Additionally, He refers (as the referent of what we are to eat and drink) to His “flesh” five times, His “blood” four times, “bread” (referring to Himself) six times, and “eats me” once (6:57). That’s sixteen more references to eating (Him) in these eight verses for a grand total of 28 references to eating and drinking His flesh and blood in eight verses (an average of 3.5 times per verse). To remove all doubt, He equates the “living bread” with His “flesh” in 6:51. What more does one need to be persuaded, pray tell? It couldn’t have been made any more clear than it is.

Why think that comments like those in . . . 6:63 aren’t meant to clarify that he wasn’t referring to physically eating his body?

John 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Jason wants to claim that Jesus’ contrast of “flesh” and “spirit” in 6:63 establishes the symbolic and metaphorical nature of the whole discourse. But when the words “flesh” and “spirit” are opposed to each other in the New Testament, it is always a figurative use, in the sense of sinful human nature (“flesh”) contrasted with humanity enriched by God’s grace (“spirit”):

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 

Romans 7:5-6, 25 While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. [6] But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit. . . . [25] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. 

Romans 8:1-14 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. [3] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, [4] in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [5] For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. [6] To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. [7] For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; [8] and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. [9] But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. [10] But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. [11] If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you. [12] So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh — [13] for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. [14] For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

1 Corinthians 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 
Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh
 
Galatians 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now.
 
Galatians 5:13-26 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another. [14] For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [15] But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another. [16] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. [17] For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would. [18] But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, [20] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, [21] envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [23] gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. [24] And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [25] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [26] Let us have no self-conceit, no provoking of one another, no envy of one another.
 
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
 
1 Peter 4:6 For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God.
In other words, Jesus is saying that His words can only be received by men endowed with supernatural grace. Those who interpret them in a wooden, carnal way — equating His teaching here with a sort of gross cannibalism — (or with a merely natural human understanding; see, e.g., Matthew 16:17 for a clear example of this meaning) are way off the mark. He wasn’t referring to the Eucharist, but rather to “the words that I have spoken”. “Spirit and life” refers back to His references to spiritual and eternal life as a result of partaking of the Eucharist (6:50-51, 53-54, 56-58).
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If we’re told that coming to him and believing in him satisfy our hunger and thirst (6:35), then we have been given a clarification that something other than consuming the eucharistic elements is in view.
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As I’ve just shown, it’s a scenario of “both/and” rather than the typically Protestant “either/or” and false dichotomies outlook. Jesus stressed belief and faith and first and then moved on to eucharistic realism, in ultra-graphic and unmistakable terms. Jason and those who think like him want to completely ignore and rationalize away this second aspect of the discourse. It won’t do, The biblical data is too strong.
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Similarly, when Jesus says in verse 63 that the flesh profits nothing, which is reminiscent of his discouragement of seeking physical food earlier (verses 26-29), that’s more naturally taken as a clarification that he’s not referring to eating his flesh physically.
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This doesn’t fly, either because the discourse moves along into different territory, which is why the latter parts cannot be explained solely by the earlier parts. “Flesh” in 6:63 has an entirely different meaning, as shown.
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You could take “flesh” to be a reference to human fallenness or sinfulness, and thereby reconcile Jesus’ comments with a physical presence in the eucharist, but that’s a less natural way to take the phrase in its context. The nearby context is more focused on flesh in the sense of Jesus’ body, and it’s not as though Jesus’ critics were arguing that human fallenness or sinfulness is profitable. So, Jesus’ comment in 6:63 is more relevant, and therefore makes more sense, under my view.
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I would argue precisely the opposite. Jesus makes it crystal clear again what He means in 6:63 by saying, “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail.” This is precisely the contrast between spirit and the carnal flesh that is seen in all the cross-references I provided. Then He says, “the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
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In other words, He is contrasting His spiritually discerned words to those that come from the flesh or the carnal mind. He’s not contrasting His words to His own flesh. That would be absurd, seeing that He said over and over (6:50-51, 53-54, 57-58) that eating His flesh and drinking His blood was the way to eternal life (that’s hardly the meaning of “carnal” flesh that He refers to in 6:63). Jason is out to sea, exegetically speaking. His view would lead to a ridiculous state of affairs whereby Jesus refers six times in eight verses to eating His flesh, which then gives eternal life; then He turns around in 6:63 and supposedly means that His flesh “is of no avail.” That’s ludicrous and absurd; literally nonsense and viciously self-contradictory.
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If some people were inattentive to what he was saying or misrepresented it, that doesn’t change the fact that Jesus did provide clarification. 
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Yes He did; and every bit of it favors the Real Substantial Presence position, not mere eucharistic symbolism.
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And since verse 66 is often cited in this context, we need to keep in mind that those comments are made just after Jesus’ remarks in verses 61-65, which aren’t about a physical presence in the eucharist even if we assume that he’s referring to a physical presence earlier in the passage.
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Verse 61 refers to what was just said, and the reaction to it. Jesus repeatedly referred to eating His flesh as the means of eternal life (6:50-58). We know how many hearers reacted: “The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ ” (6:52). Jesus rhetorically “digs in” and reiterates even more so. He doesn’t stop and say, “wait, guys, you didn’t get what I was just saying. Let me explain . . .” Then we have 6:60: “Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?'” Then He rebukes the ones who reject His teaching: “Do you take offense at this?” (6:61).
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Then He said “there are some of you that do not believe” (6:64). They had rejected the Real Substantial Presence. Then follows one of the saddest verses in the Bible: “After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him” (6:66). Why didn’t Jesus tell them that they had misunderstood His meaning, if that were the case (and He knew all things so He would have known what they were thinking)? He certainly would have done so. The fact that He didn’t absolutely proves that they had understood His meaning and rejected it.
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Verse 66 could be referring back to Jesus’ earlier comments, in part or in whole, but it need not be, and it’s more naturally taken as referring to the closer context of verses 61-65.
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We know from 6:52 and 6:60 (and Jesus’ reaction in 6:61) exactly what was being objected to. And it did refer back to Jesus’ eucharistic teaching.
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Aside from all of that, notice that if Jesus was teaching a physical presence in the eucharist, we’d expect more clarification. The eucharist not only wasn’t being practiced yet at that time, but also hadn’t even been explained in anticipation of a future practice. We don’t see somebody like Peter or John asking Jesus for clarification about the means by which they’d consume his body, which is a clarification we’d expect them to want if they took him the way advocates of a physical presence in the eucharist are suggesting. We don’t see them asking how his body could provide enough for every one of his followers to eat and drink, given the physical attributes of Jesus’ body and how many followers the Messiah was expected to have. We don’t see Jesus’ disciples trying to bite off portions of his body, only to have it explained to them that they should only eat his flesh and drink his blood in the context of the eucharist. Instead, the disciples seem to take his comments much as they took similarly strong, but nonliteral language elsewhere (e.g., tearing out your eye that leads to sin, cutting off your hand that leads to sin, taking up your cross to follow him). We don’t see the disciples asking how they can have spiritual life, as Jesus has told them they do (e.g., verse 70), when they haven’t physically eaten his flesh and drunk his blood yet. 
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They simply had faith (“Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed”: 6:68-69). That alone doesn’t tell us what it is that they believed. We only know for sure what the ones who disbelieved were rejecting. Christians often have faith in things that we don’t fully understand (and in many cases, can’t fully understand). Jesus often noted hardness of heart leading to unbelief (Mt 13:13, 19; Lk 5:21-22; Jn 8:27, 43-47; 12:37-40). If Jason wants to address the issue of when Jesus would explain and not explain, and why, I am happy to do that. Let’s delve into it! Here, as everywhere it only helps the Catholic case and devastates the “low church” Protestant anti-Real Presence position.
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In many other places in Scripture, Jesus explains His meaning when someone merely is uncomprehending (as opposed to willfully disbelieving). A typical example of this occurs in John 3:1-15: the incident with Nicodemus regarding the meaning of “born again”. Nicodemus asks: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” (3:4). Jesus explains His meaning (3:5-8). Nicodemus, still baffled, again asks: “How can this be?” (3:9). Jesus replied: “Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand this?” (3:10) and then proceeds to explain some more (3:11-15). He explained because He knew that Nicodemus was truly seeking.
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When someone wasn’t seeking or open in their spirit, He usually (if not always) would not do so, as in John 6. Here are further examples:

Matthew 13:36, 51 And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” . . . [51] “Have you understood all this?” They said to him, “Yes.”

Matthew 15:10-20 And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: [11] not what goes into the mouth defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.” [12] Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” [13] He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. [14] Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” [15] But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” [16] And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? [17] Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and so passes on? [18] But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a man. [19] For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. [20] These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” (cf. Mk 7:17-18)

Matthew 16:5-12 When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread. [6] Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” [7] And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “We brought no bread.” [8] But Jesus, aware of this, said, “O men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? [9] Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? [10] Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? [11] How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” [12] Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.

Matthew 17:9-13 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of man is raised from the dead.” [10] And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Eli’jah must come?” [11] He replied, “Eli’jah does come, and he is to restore all things; [12] but I tell you that Eli’jah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands.” [13] Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

Matthew 19:24-26 “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” [25] When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” [26] But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Mark 4:33-34 With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as they were able to hear it; [34] he did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything.

Therefore, He would have in John 6 if a misunderstanding were involved, rather than a hardhearted disbelief, brought on by the influence of Satan.

Luke 8:9-11 And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, [10] he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand. [11] Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.”

Jesus continued explaining in 8:12-15.

Luke 9:46-48 And an argument arose among them as to which of them was the greatest. [47] But when Jesus perceived the thought of their hearts, he took a child and put him by his side, [48] and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me; for he who is least among you all is the one who is great.”

Luke 24:13-27 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emma’us, about seven miles from Jerusalem, [14] and talking with each other about all these things that had happened. [15] While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. [16] But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. [17] And he said to them, “What is this conversation which you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. [18] Then one of them, named Cle’opas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” [19] And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, [20] and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. [21] But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since this happened. [22] Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning [23] and did not find his body; and they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. [24] Some of those who were with us went to the tomb, and found it just as the women had said; but him they did not see.” [25] And he said to them, “O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! [26] Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” [27] And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

John 4:31-34 Meanwhile the disciples besought him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.” [32] But he said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.” [33] So the disciples said to one another, “Has any one brought him food?” [34] Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work.”

John 8:21-32 Again he said to them, “I go away, and you will seek me and die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come.” [22] Then said the Jews, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” [23] He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. [24] I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.” [25] They said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Even what I have told you from the beginning. [26] I have much to say about you and much to judge; but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.” [27] They did not understand that he spoke to them of the Father. [28] So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me. [29] And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him.” [30] As he spoke thus, many believed in him. [31] Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, [32] and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

In this instance, Jesus explained because He knew (in His omniscience) that some of the hearers would believe in Him, while others would not.

If verse 53 meant that you had to have eaten Jesus’ flesh and drunk his blood physically in order to have spiritual life, then where’s the request for clarification from his disciples, and where did Jesus clarify that people could have spiritual life prior to the institution of the eucharist and that people could have spiritual life afterward without consuming a eucharistic physical presence (e.g., Protestants)? If coming to Jesus and believing in him is enough to satisfy your hunger and thirst (verse 35), then how can you not have spiritual life until you physically consume Jesus’ body in the eucharist (verse 53)? A metaphorical reading of John 6 makes more sense of the text and context and involves less of a need for clarification than the alternative.
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As explained, Jesus developed His teaching in the course of His words recorded in John 6. He started with more familiar Jewish terms of expression and then went on to the “new and unusual” eucharistic teachings, which certainly would have been hard to grasp by all the hearers at the time. Their choice was (as always) to have faith in Jesus and believe in Him, no matter how difficult and inexplicable His teachings were.
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If Jesus’ body was physically present in multiple locations simultaneously, sort of like the reports of bilocation we read about in the paranormal literature, that sort of scenario would require more clarification than a nonliteral interpretation of Jesus’ words would.
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Not necessarily. After all, He went through walls after He had risen, and He didn’t take the time to explain that:
John 20:19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them . . .
He simply didn’t explain His miracles. He never explained how He could walk on water or still the winds or be transfigured or know people’s private thoughts, or raise people from the dead (He merely said that His disciples would be able to do the same). So why should He explain all the ins and outs of the Eucharist? This may have been the first time He addressed the topic at all.
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We also don’t know if there were possibly numerous instances of His explaining it that are not recorded in Scripture. Mark 4:34 states: “privately to his own disciples he explained everything.” Imagine all the nights He spent talking to the disciples! The volume of those words would be hundreds of times longer than the content of the New Testament (which could be read in one or two nights).
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Since Jesus was physically beside his disciples, handling the eucharistic elements, how could those eucharistic elements be his body?
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In miraculous phenomena, all sorts of things are possible, by the very definition of “miracle” or “supernatural.” No problem! If we want deep mysteries, all kinds are believed by all Christians together. How could God never have a beginning? How can He be everywhere and know everything? How can He be outside of time? Why should the Eucharist be different?
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And what about the fact that the communion elements still look, feel, smell, and taste like bread and wine, not flesh and blood? Wouldn’t that need clarification from Jesus and his earliest followers writing in the New Testament? And what precedent do we have for an alleged miracle like transubstantiation? When Jesus did something like change the water into wine at the wedding in Cana in John 2 (which isn’t far from John 6), did the material in the pots still look, feel, smell, and taste like water? Did he change water into wine under the appearance of its remaining water? I’m not aware of any precedent for performing a miracle that’s supposed to involve a physical transformation, yet doesn’t involve any physical evidence of such a transformation.
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It may not be exactly analogous (though who says it must be?), but there are many odd and weird and unpredictable manifestations of God throughout the Bible. How about the pillars of cloud and fire?:

Exodus 33:8-10 Whenever Moses went out to the tent, all the people rose up, and every man stood at his tent door, and looked after Moses, until he had gone into the tent. [9] When Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the door of the tent, and the LORD would speak with Moses. [10] And when all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the door of the tent, all the people would rise up and worship, every man at his tent door.

Exodus 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night; (cf. 14:24; Num 14:14; Neh 9:12, 19)

Note that the pillars of cloud and fire were:

1) creations (water, if a literal cloud, and fire);

2) visual, hence an image;

and

3) thought to directly represent God Himself.

It’s also a supernatural manifestation. Moreover, we have the burning bush (Ex 3:2-6), which is not only fire, but also called an “angel of the Lord” (Ex 3:2), yet also “God” (3:4, 6, 11, 13-16, 18; 4:5, 7-8) and “the LORD” (3:7, 16, 18; 4:2, 4-6, 10-11, 14) interchangeably. An angel is a creation (as is fire and cloud); yet God chose to use a created being and inanimate objects to visibly represent Him. Several similar instances occur in the Old Testament. Moreover, the Jews “worshiped” fire as representative of God in the following passage, and God is otherwise spoken as being “in” fire:

2 Chronicles 7:1-4 When Solomon had ended his prayer, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. [2] And the priests could not enter the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD filled the LORD’s house. [3] When all the children of Israel saw the fire come down and the glory of the LORD upon the temple, they bowed down with their faces to the earth on the pavement, and worshiped and gave thanks to the LORD, saying, “For he is good, for his steadfast love endures for ever.” [4] Then the king and all the people offered sacrifice before the LORD.

Exodus 19:18 And Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire; . . .

Does Jason want more “weird” and inexplicable stuff? It continues in the New Testament. How can we be the Body of Christ (Rom 7:4; 1 Cor 12:27; Eph 1:22-23; 4:12; 5:30; Col 1:24)? When St. Paul was converted to Christ, Jesus said to him, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting” (Acts 9:5). This couldn’t literally refer to Jesus the Divine Person since He had already ascended to heaven (Acts 1:9-11). Rather, Jesus meant that Christ’s Church really was His Body, whom Paul (Saul) was persecuting (Acts 8:1, 3, 9:1-2).

What does Paul mean by “carrying in the body the death of Jesus” (2 Cor 4:10),  or “in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions” (Col 1:24)? There is plenty of mystery to go around, and it is usually not clarified or explained at length. Yet Jason demands that the Eucharist has to be a unique case, with the supposed necessity extensive explanations given at every turn. This is unreasonable and unbiblical.

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Photo credit: Jesus Teaches the People by the Sea, by James Tissot (1836-1902)[public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

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Summary: I critically and systematically examine various skeptical / “exegetical” arguments made by anti-Catholic polemicist Jason Engwer, regarding John 6 (Eucharist).

2021-10-26T10:56:28-04:00

Numbers 15:27-31 (RSV)  “If one person sins unwittingly, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering. [28] And the priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who commits an error, when he sins unwittingly, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven. [29] You shall have one law for him who does anything unwittingly, for him who is native among the people of Israel, and for the stranger who sojourns among them. [30] But the person who does anything with a high hand, whether he is native or a sojourner, reviles the LORD, and that person shall be cut off from among his people. [31] Because he has despised the word of the LORD, and has broken his commandment, that person shall be utterly cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.”

Leviticus 18:26, 29 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and do none of these abominations, . . . [29] For whoever shall do any of these abominations, the persons that do them shall be cut off from among their people.

Ezekiel 45:20 You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for any one who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple. (cf. Acts 3:17; 17:30; Rom 10:3; 1 Tim 1:13; 1 Pet 1:14)

Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” . . .

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Confession and penance are also alluded to:

Leviticus 5:5, 16-18 When a man is guilty in any of these, he shall confess the sin he has committed, . . . [16] He shall also make restitution for what he has done . . . [17] If any one sins, doing any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity. [18] He shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish out of the flock, valued by you at the price for a guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him for the error which he committed unwittingly, and he shall be forgiven.

Numbers 5:7 he shall confess his sin which he has committed; and he shall make full restitution for his wrong, adding a fifth to it, and giving it to him to whom he did the wrong.

The Bible plainly teaches that there is such a thing as a mortal sin (1 John 5:16-17), and often refers to lesser and greater sins, thus supporting Catholic theology. People are not always completely aware that certain acts or thoughts are sinful. In Catholic theology, in order to commit a grave, or mortal sin, where one ceases to be in a state of grace and is literally in potential, but real danger of hellfire, three requirements are necessary: 1) it must be a very serious matter, 2) the sinner has to have sufficiently reflected on, or had adequate knowledge of the sin, and 3) he must have fully consented in his will.

The above distinction between “unwitting sin” or “error” committed by a person who “does not know” is distinguished from sin “with a high hand”: done by person who “reviles the LORD”, and “has despised the word of the LORD”. This scenario is precisely analogous to the Catholic notion, insofar as the more serious sin caused the person to be “cut off” from the congregation of Israel: the usual OT concrete expression of what in Catholicism is understood in the spiritual sense as being cut off from God’s grace and communion with Him (and possibly from salvation and heaven in the long run).

Many other passages express the same notions, referring to sins committed “unwittingly” (Lev 4:2, 13, 22, 27; Lev 5:15, 18; 22:14; Num 15:24, 27-29; Josh 20:3, 5; Tobit 3:3) which are “forgiven” (Lev 4:20, 26, 31, 35; 5:10, 16, 18; Num 15:25-26, 28) through the usual processes of priestly sacrifice and atonement, based on the Law of Moses.

***

Related Reading

Mortal vs. Venial Sin: Biblical? [1997]

Mortal & Venial Sin: Strong Biblical Support [4-1-06]

Dialogue on Mortal & Venial Sin [4-14-06]

Mortal and Venial Sin (vs. Calvin #56) [2012]

What the Bible Says on Degrees of Sin and Mortal Sin [National Catholic Register, 7-6-18]

Vs. James White #8: St. Basil on Mortal & Venial Sin [11-13-19]

***

Photo credit: P.poschadel (8-9-13). Confessional [Wikimedia Commons / Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported2.5 Generic2.0 Generic and 1.0 Generic license]

***

Summary: The Old Testament has several striking passages (especially Numbers 15:27-31), indicative of the Catholic & New Testament distinction between mortal & venial sin.

2021-09-09T14:20:24-04:00

Fr. Hugh Somerville Knapman, OSB has taken umbrage at my citing of a few of his words in my recent article, Traditionis Custodes Results: No Fallen Sky (I Called It) (9-6-21). His reply, posted on his site, One Foot in the Cloister, is entitled, “Apologetics or Polemics” (9-7-21). His words will be in blue.

*****

I always hate to disagree with a priest (whether privately or publicly). I have immense respect for all priests. But (as they are the first to admit), they can be wrong at times, just like the rest of us, and in this case, seeing that many priests have been extremely critical of the Holy Father, it seems to me a case of “goose and gander.” If they can do that, I can do this.

Sadly, in this instance, the criticism sent my way is a variation on a theme that I have encountered off and on through the years:

1) I criticize radical Catholic reactionary thinking: usually with regard to Pope Francis or Vatican II or the New (Pauline) Mass.

2) Rather than deal with my specific criticisms (and/or defenses of what particular thing they are lambasting), a person who disagrees with me attacks me personally.

3) Generally, the ad hominem attacks involved at that point are calling me a “papolater” or “ultramontanist” or “modernist” (I just dealt with this approach 13 days ago). In this case, it is chiefly mischaracterizing me as a mere “polemicist” as opposed to an “apologist.”

4) As a common variation on the latter theme, the tactic is to pretend that I “used” to just devote myself to [good and helpful] apologetics, but I supposedly no longer do, and am now solely or overwhelmingly doing “polemics” or “attacking” the reactionaries as my raison d’être. Quite often, a blast at me being a “convert” is included in this.

5) #4 is demonstrably untrue, as I will prove beyond doubt as I proceed. Criticizing reactionaries is a tiny part of my overall work, and I have been doing it (as a tiny part) for the entire 25 years I have been online. It’s nothing new. If Fr. Hugh had simply perused my website for ten minutes, he would have readily observed this.

6) As an extra bonus, rhetoric of this sort is often accompanied by unsubtle insinuations that I am filled with pride; that “it’s all about him [me]” etc. Thus, it entails judging my interior motivations and my soul, which is always ill-advised and a very tricky business (to put it mildly).

THERE IS ALWAYS a little frisson of alarm through my frail flesh whenever Google Alerts tells me my name has appeared afresh on the internet. Thankfully it is rare, and overwhelmingly the mention proves to be benign, often merely incidental. Occasionally it is not. Today is such a day.

I’m glad it is rare for Fr. Hugh. I have to deal with such mentions almost on a weekly basis (since my 3,800+ articles and 50 books are “out there”), and usually they are negative in nature (as presently). It’s all part of the package of being an apologist.

[he cites Scott Hahn as an apologist marked by “happy zeal”]

Not all convert apologists are so positive. America seems to have a goodly share of convert apologists who began well and have deteriorated into polemicists. 

This is the shot taken against converts (#4 above), as if we are especially prone to error in a way that cradle Catholics are not. And we already have the either/or caricature of “once a helpful apologist, now only a useless polemicist” (also #4). This is bearing false witness, if he is trying to apply it to me, as I will show.

They even seem to manifest what is called by many now hyper-papalism, and any word of criticism, however mild, oblique or muted, against Pope Francis is the dog-whistle for them to attack. And attack is the word.

This is the tired “papolater” / “ultramontanist” accusation (#3 above), so often sadly trotted out at the slightest criticism of reactionary thinking and behavior. It’s simply not true of myself, as I recently clarified for the 100th time. I wrote tongue-in-cheek there:

It’s the usual canard that any papal defender must be an “ultramontanist” or “papolater” who thinks the color of socks that the pope picks out or a weather report from the Holy Father are infallible.

They do not practise apologetics any more; the trade they now ply is polemics. It is not attractive. In fact, there is something sinister about it.

What’s sinister is that this is a lie; it’s a falsehood, a whopper, bearing false witness. It is not true about me and never has been. I have about 50 separate and distinct web pages on my blog. Only one — though it is extensive; but so are most of my web pages — is devoted to the reactionaries (about 2% of the whole). I’ve written fifty books. Just two (4%) are devoted to reactionaries. Note that my first one on the topic was dated December 2002 in its first edition. That’s almost 19 years ago. Obviously, I was dealing with the topic back then, and it was a small minority of all that I dealt with, then, just as now. Nothing has changed at all.

If it is true that I do so at least “more” than I used to, that would be due to the fact that Pope Francis is daily attacked by reactionaries, and so there is more occasion to counter-respond, in a way that wasn’t present with Pope St. John Paul II (though he was assuredly attacked, and I defended him) and Pope Benedict XVI (ditto). Apologetics is often driven by the events of the day. It’s my duty as an apologist to defend the Holy Father, generally, and particularly if he is unjustly attacked. So I do so. Then I get falsely — and absurdly — accused of doing only this.

If anyone doubts that I have been dealing with this topic during the entire time I have engaged in online apologetics, they ought to be made aware of papers of mine on these topics dated 7-30-99 and 8-1-99: listed on my appropriate web page. That’s over 22 years ago. I have many other papers from years ago listed there. For example:

Syllabus of 60 Radical Catholic Reactionary Errors [2000]

Debate on the Reactionary Group, The Remnant [1-24-00]

Critique of The Remnant [2000]

Debate: My “Syllabus of 60 Catholic Reactionary Errors” [11-24-00]

Radical Catholic Reactionaries vs. an Optimistic Faith [1-21-01]

Dietrich von Hildebrand & Legitimate Traditionalism (2-27-02; terminology and a few other minor things revised on 4-18-20)

Why Not Kick Modernist Dissenters Out of the Church? [3-7-02]

2nd Conversion? Reactionary Absurdities Satirized [10-7-03]

Vatican I on Papal Infallibility: “Ultramontanism”? [3-29-04]

Mark Shea is one such. Indeed his worsening online content caused the termination of his connection with EWTN and its journal, National Catholic Register.

That’s right. At the time I was a vociferous (public and private) defender of National Catholic Register, against his attacks. Partially as a result, they hired me and I started regularly writing for them in September 2016 (258 articles from then till now). In all those articles, neither “traditionalist” nor “reactionary” ever appears. I wrote about Pope Francis exactly one time (on 9-30-17), and that was a mild criticism: urging him to answer the dubia. It’s all apologetics and theology. Yet Fr. Hugh claims all I do is polemics.

Another is Dave Armstrong.

Again, this is a lie, as I have already shown is the case, and I will offer more undeniable proof before I am done.

Armstrong began his convert’s apologetical career with very useful works demonstrating to Protestants how the Catholic Church is more biblically faithful than the so-called bible-based evangelical, reformed and generally Protestant denominations. They were just as useful for cradle Catholics. But now he has become a polemicist, but with a twist. More on that later.

This is absolute nonsense; hogwash! I’ve done exactly the same from the beginning. I take on all major errors, both outside and inside the Church. If Fr. Hugh insists on claiming that all I do is criticize reactionaries, then how does he explain the list of my forty most recent blog papers (over the last six weeks)? Here they are:

“Pope Francis is SO Confusing!”: A Spirited Reply (9-7-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #1]

Traditionis Custodes Results: No Fallen Sky (I Called It) (9-6-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #2]

The Orthodoxy of Pope Francis (9-6-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #3]

Hebrews 10:12, Vulgate, & the Mass (James White’s Lie) (9-3-21) [contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics #1]

COVID: Catholics Can’t Avoid “Remote Cooperation with Evil” (9-3-21) [COVID #1]

Pearce’s Potshots #46: Who Wrote the Gospel of John? (9-2-21) [contra-atheist / pro-Bible apologetics #1]

Limited Atonement: Refutation of James White (9-1-21) [contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics #2]

Bible on Germ Theory: An Atheist Hems & Haws (8-31-21) [Bible & Science apologetics #1]

Pearce’s Potshots #45: “Unholy Questions” for God (8-29-21) [contra-atheist / pro-Bible apologetics #2]

A “Biblical” Immaculate Conception? (vs. James White) (8-27-21) [contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics #3]

Baptismal Regeneration: Refutation of James White (8-27-21) [contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics #4]

Tower of Babel, Baked Bricks, Bitumen, & Archaeology (8-26-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #1]

My Supposed “Papolatry”: Outrageous Reactionary Lies (8-26-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #4]

Reply to Engwer’s Alleged “Absence of a Papacy” (8-25-21) [contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics #5]

Genesis 10 “Table of Nations”: Authentic History (8-25-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #2]

Acacia, Ark of the Covenant, & Biblical Accuracy (8-24-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #3]

Natural Immunity from COVID: Four Scientific Studies (8-22-21) [COVID #2]

COVID Vaccines, Conscience, & the Pope: a Catholic Dialogue (8-21-21) [COVID #3]

Quails, Wandering Hebrews, & Biblical Accuracy (8-17-21) [Bible & Science apologetics #2]

Pearce’s Potshots #44: Jairus’ Daughter “Contradiction”? (8-17-21) [contra-atheist / pro-Bible apologetics #3]

In Search of the Real Mt. Sinai (8-16-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #4]

Debate: Conscience vs. COVID Vaccines / Natural & Herd Immunity (8-16-21) [COVID #4]

Unvaccinated People, Conscience, Condescension, & Coercion (8-14-21) [COVID #5]

Overly Strict Parenting: Catholic Traditionalist Self-Critique (8-13-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #5]

The Amsterdam Apparitions: Where Are We Now? (8-13-21) [Catholic apologetics #1] [25]

Parting of the Red Sea: Feasible Scientific Explanation? (8-11-21) [Bible & Science apologetics #3]

Plagues of Egypt: Possible Natural Explanations (8-11-21) [Bible & Science apologetics #4]

Joseph in Egypt, Archaeology, & Historiography (8-7-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #5]

Why Folks Like the New Catholic Answer Bible (8-5-21) [Catholic apologetics #2]

Archaeology Verifies 13th c. BC Cities Listed in Joshua (8-5-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #6]

Pearce’s Potshots #43: Joshua’s Conquest & Archaeology (8-3-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #7]

Dialogue w Traditionalist “Hurt” by Traditionis Custodes (8-2-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #6]

Traditionis Custodes: Sky Hasn’t Fallen (Bishops) (8-2-21) [trad / reactionary / Pope Francis issues #7]

Archaeology, Ancient Hebrew, & a Written Pentateuch (7-31-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #8]

Abraham, Warring Kings of Genesis 14, & History (7-31-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #9] [35]

Pope St. Clement of Rome & Papal Authority (7-28-21) [contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics #6]

Was Sodom Destroyed by a Meteor in Abraham’s Time? (7-27-21) [Bible & Science apologetics #5]

Abraham & Hebron: Archaeology Backs Up the Bible (7-24-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #10]

Abraham, Salem, Mt. Moriah, Jerusalem, & Archaeology (7-24-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #11]

Abraham’s Shechem Lines Up With Archaeology (7-23-21) [Bible & Archaeology apologetics #12]

We see, then, that there were only seven articles out of 40, about the reactionary / traditionalist / Pope Francis stuff , or 17.5% of the whole. That is hardly “all” I do, is it? Here’s the entire breakdown:

Bible & archaeology (12 = 30%)

reactionary / traditionalist / Pope Francis stuff [7 = 17.5%]

contra-Protestant / pro-Catholic apologetics (6 = 15%)

COVID (5 = 12.5%)

Bible & science apologetics (5 = 12.5%)

contra-atheist / pro-Bible apologetics (3 = 7.5%)

Catholic apologetics [i.e., non-debate treatments] (2 = 5%)

28 out of 40 (70%) are about apologetics, and I would say the reactionary criticism is apologetics, too, because as I see it, I am defending Holy Mother Church and the Holy Father. So it’s really 35 out of 40, or 87.5% apologetics, with five additional articles on COVID (of obvious import).

The article begins with the perpendicular pronoun, and this is the key to understanding the apologetic polemics of such as Armstrong. It is all about them. A man has to earn his living, of course, but when a Catholic apologist becomes the product, there is a grave problem.

More personal attacks . . . I was simply noting:

I catch so much hell from radical Catholic reactionaries for my criticism of their errors and excesses that I do think it is worthwhile (not to mention educational: if they will accept it) to point out to them that I was dead-on in my predictions about what would happen after the issuance of Pope Francis’ Motu proprio Traditionis Custodes.

Yes, it’s polemics, which is not always a bad thing; in this case it was educational; in effect, “learn from history!”. It depends on what the polemics are about and how they are done. Jesus and Paul and the prophets engaged in tons of polemics and jeremiads. The latter word is even derived from the prophet Jeremiah. So they can’t possibly all be “bad.” Most of the polemics against Pope Francis are, I submit, “bad.”

So Armstrong, ignoring the bishops who have outright forbidden the old Mass in toto, looks at the many bishops who have not suppressed the old Mass but have allowed the status quo ante to continue. 

I’m simply observing at this point. I have inquired as to the reasons why particular bishops have totally prohibited the Old Mass. So far I haven’t seen any reasons. One person showed me how two bishops did that but provided no reasons. I immediately responded that this was a bad thing: that they should explain why, with reasoning and fact, per Traditionis. I am all for traditional liturgy. That’s why I was a member at a parish that performed Latin Masses (ordinary form) for 25 years. And it’s why I’ve written a lot about liturgical abuses.

What he does not acknowledge is that in these cases the bishops have been clear that this indulgence is temporary, while they decide a more lasting response, since the motu proprio caught them on the hop (collegiality did not extend to warning the bishops it seems).

Time will tell. My position is clear and has been constant: the Old Mass should only be suppressed in cases where there is rampant radical Catholic reactionary thinking in the immediate environment, which does no good for anyone.

So, Dave is right that the sky has not fallen in for traditionalists…yet. We’ll see how prophetic he is in a year’s time.

Yes we will. If the rough percentage of suppression is the same, will Fr. Hugh admit that I was an accurate prognosticator then? Of course, many of the alarmists in July were confident that the Old Mass was gonna be entirely prohibited. That is plainly not happening anytime soon, if ever. So they are already manifestly shown to be hysterically wrong. Fr. Hugh’s own statement that I cited (because he was cited — along with myself — in a survey by Peter Kwasniewski) was:

the old Mass was good in the “old days” (all 1400+ years of them) but is not good for today, and so cannot be countenanced in the modern Church. [link]

This implies that the goal of the pope is total abolition of it. So far there is no sign of such a thing; quite the contrary. So we’ll see how prophetic he is, too, in a year’s time. But my original citation of Fr. Hugh from the same article, shows how radical his views really are:

Color coding:

red = defectibility; the idea that the Church and/or pope can fall away from the faith and apostatize. It’s the most radical reactionary idea of all. * purple = Pope Francis is a bad man, tyrant, deceiver, uncaring, cruel, modernist, stinkin’ theological liberal, pulls the wings off of flies, burns ants with magnifying glasses, is stupid & ignorant, is not to be respected or believed, etc. * green = Vatican II stinks, is of lesser authority than Trent & other ecumenical councils; it was a liberal revolution, cause of all ills in the Church, etc. [in one case, Vatican I was also trashed].
the old Mass was good in the “old days” (all 1400+ years of them) but is not good for today, and so cannot be countenanced in the modern Church. It is the liturgical expression of situational ethics, and the relativisation of absolute truthWhatever it is, this is not Christianity in any authentic sense, one could reasonably argue that this is a bitter fruit not of Vatican II, but Vatican I, Collegiality has disappeared as a meaningful doctrine, This is not a pastoral document; it is a political one, If anything, it is Jacobin, It is hard to recall an exercise of authority as self-defeating as TC, Though in his name, TC was not written by Francis, TC is not progress, but aggressive defensiveness.

But it is really about Dave anyway. It is him the whole way through:

Nonsense. It’s a piece of provocative polemics and “I told you so!”: just as I made very clear at the beginning. But it’s not all I do. That’s the lie that has motivated me to write this response. I don’t like being lied about and grossly misrepresented. Nobody does. I respond for the sake of my apostolate. I am literally harmed by “hit pieces” like this: both my reputation and name, and my livelihood. So I respond for the sake of the ministry: which is a good thing, because it is ordained by God, through calling, just as Fr. Hugh was called to be a priest.

There seems to be a radical insecurity underlying polemics like this. 

Right. Now we’re into pseudo-psychoanalysis. He thinks he can read my heart and my inner states of being.

Having converted to popery, . . . 

Um, I converted to the Holy Catholic Church, thank you. Part of that is an infallible pope, not an inspired one or impeccable one. As I noted in reply to the last attack on me, in my conversion story in Surprised by Truth, the pope was never mentioned as any sort of reason why I converted. That’s a matter of record. Fr. Hugh can either criticize / debate me, or a straw man caricature that is supposedly “me.”

these ex-evangelical converts must now double-down on hyper-papalism to shore up their own faith. Or so it seems.

This is the lie, reiterated, that I am a “hyper-papalist” / “ultramontanist” blah blah blah: which has never been the case at all. I came in largely because of Cardinal Newman’s reasoning, and he is the furthest thing from that. Yes, I was an evangelical, and I am proud of the great deal of truth I learned while in their ranks. They often are far more committed to Bible study, prayer, and evangelism than Catholics are. We can learn much from them in practice. And they can learn a lot from us.

My involvement comes in that I am listed, indiscriminately among writers of often quite different hue and tone, as one of those who offered an “hysterical, unhinged, and ridiculous” response to the motu proprio.

They don’t have to all be exactly the same. What I was citing was what I thought was excessive reaction to Traditionis. I found out about him because Peter Kwasniewski listed him as a responder. For him to say that the old Mass “cannot be countenanced in the modern Church” (as if that is the pope’s thinking) is indeed a “ridiculous” response. Strong words, yes, but it’s directed to the folks who never have a second’s hesitation to use many strong words against the pope (most undeserved). They simply can’t take their own medicine. They insulate themselves from criticism and usually have no interest in critical comments or analysis of outsiders.

Moreover, he has not bothered to note subsequent posts which reflect further not only on the document itself but also on the impolitic attitudes of some traditionalists

It wasn’t my purpose. All writings have (or should have) a specific purpose and goal. I’m busy writing about apologetics 70% of the time, and about issues like COVID for another 13%. But I’m happy to hear it. Fr. Hugh would be welcome to highlight those comments of his in further dialogue, but he has already stated that he won’t be writing about me again (I’m persona non grata), so that includes (and precludes) any possible dialogue. He simply wants to “hit and run.”

But perspective and context would spoil the force of his self-promoting polemic:

More personal attacks . . .

It is of note that Armstrong does not really engage with the arguments of any of these writers, most but not all of whom are traditionalists.

That’s right. It wasn’t my purpose, which was to simply document what they said and what has been the actual result so far (which appears to not warrant their alarmism and hysteria). As I wrote when I first cited Fr. Hugh and others:

I am particularly documenting the personal trashing and sinful attempts to read the pope’s mind and heart; judging his motives. This is the purpose of this article; not to exhaustively engage in every argument against Traditionis custodes. That is for another time and another article. [italics and bolding in original]

My recent article that Fr. Hugh objects to was a piece of “polemical sociology.” People like Erasmus and St. Thomas More and many others (Malcolm Muggeridge in recent years) have done similar things throughout history.

Nor does he engage in any way with the upset that prompts them to express their misgivings and hurt. He does not care about them or their feelings. 

That doesn’t follow from what I have written. I would say that I care about them in telling the truth to them (a loving rebuke), even if in this case it is forceful and a “hard truth” to accept. The prophets did the same; so did Paul and Jesus. People often didn’t like hearing what they said (leading to both being killed). That is love. One can’t simply take one polemical piece and act as if that is all a writer does. It would be like pretending that all Jesus ever did was excoriate the Pharisees (Matthew 23) and whip the moneychangers. If that’s all we knew about Jesus we’d have a radically different view of Him, wouldn’t we? But we must speak the “whole truth and nothing but the truth” about other people.

Nor does he try to argue how the attempt to curtail the most vigorous part of the western, first-world Church might be justified in any pastoral or evangelistic way, nor what it says that most of the vigour and new life in our section of the Church lies precisely in the more traditional observance.

I dealt with these sorts of things, at least in part, in my first response to Traditionis and some subsequent ones: including a dialogue. Fr. Hugh seems to think I am incapable of dialogue with a traditionalist or what I would classify as a reactionary. He is obviously unaware of my seven cordial dialogues with Timothy Flanders: associate of Taylor Marshall and currently editor at the major reactionary site, One Peter Five:

Reply to Timothy Flanders’ Defense of Taylor Marshall [7-8-19]

Dialogue w Ally of Taylor Marshall, Timothy Flanders [7-17-19]

Dialogue w 1P5 Writer Timothy Flanders: Introduction [2-1-20]

Dialogue w Timothy Flanders #2: State of Emergency? [2-25-20]

Is Vatican II Analogous to “Failed” Lateran Council V? [8-11-20]

Dialogue #6 w 1P5 Columnist Timothy Flanders [8-24-20]

Dialogue #7 w 1P5 Columnist Timothy Flanders (Highlighting Papal Indefectibility, Pastor Aeternus from Vatican I in 1870, & the “Charitable Anathema”) [12-1-20]

We have a pretty warm relationship. And we will keep dialoguing. And we do because he doesn’t pretend that all I do is this kind of stuff. He recognizes that I am a legitimate Catholic apologist who is — by God’s enabling grace — helping to bring people into the Church and others to stay there.

For you see, he is a polemicist, not an apologist.

Now we’re back to the either/or slanderous lies.

Vitriol drips from his pen. It is sad to behold. Read him by all means, but at your own risk, for you will be exposed to what is essentially Catholicism à l’Armstrong, and not the faith of Christ unadulterated. If you can stomach it, go for it. But you might want to vaccinate yourself first.

Your choice, readers!

Or far better, read some Frank Sheed, Fulton Sheen, Scott Hahn, Carol Robinson… the list is longer of apologists who will nourish your faith rather than fan your passions.

By all means, go read them. I have about thirty books in my own library from the first three. Scott Hahn wrote the Foreword to my second book (he volunteered; I didn’t even ask him), so he must have seen something in me. He has written glowing recommendations and once asked me to be a speaker at the Defending the Faith Conference in Steubenville (I respectfully declined because I hardly do any speaking). He once wanted me to directly work with him as well (finances precluded it at the time). I have defended him several times when he was attacked (with his thanks expressed). So this is hardly a “Hahn vs. Armstrong” scenario.

It should be said that no further word will be offered on Armstrong here, no matter what fresh outrage he might commit.

As I said, Fr. Hugh clearly has no interest in actual dialogue, or hearing any other side. It’s strictly “hit and run.” And that is infinitely more objectionable than one piece of mine in which I indulged in “I told you so!” polemics: for a good cause.

***

Photo credit: geralt (7-27-17) [Pixabay / Pixabay License]

***

Summary: A priest decided that because I criticized reactionary overreaction to the regulation of the Old Mass, that I no longer do any apologetics at all; that I am supposedly only a “polemicist” now.

 

2021-03-01T16:18:13-04:00

. . . and an Examination of the False and Unbiblical Protestant Supposed Refutation of “Inscripturation”

[see book and purchase information]

I have addressed this topic several times, in papers that will be listed at the end. But — to my great delight — I’ve discovered some additional insights from Scripture, which were found in searches, after happening upon a passage in 2nd Thessalonians, while critiquing the false and unbiblical doctrine and tradition of sola Scriptura. I enjoy almost nothing more than finding “treasures” in the Bible: much as King David and the prophets did, over two or three thousand years ago:

Psalm 119:130 (RSV) The unfolding of thy words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.

Psalm 119:162 I rejoice at thy word like one who finds great spoil.

Jeremiah 15:16 . . . thy words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart . . . 

One thing I love so much about the Bible and being an apologist is experiences such as this, where some particular insight or teaching is found in Holy Scripture that was never thought of before, and which bolsters the Catholic conception of Christianity all the more, confirming its protection by the Holy Spirit, the “Counselor” (Jn 14:16, 26) Whom, so Jesus taught us, will “guide” us “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13) and “teach” us “all things” (Jn 14:26). The Holy Spirit protects the Catholic Church (Acts 20:28; 1 Tim 3:15) and the popes who lead it (“Simon [Peter] . . . I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren”: Lk 22:32; cf. Jn 21:15-17; Mt 16:18-19).

So here are some things that occurred to me today. They were in Holy Scripture all along.  But sometimes we miss things that are obvious, even though they have been right in front of us all along. In some cases it’s the result of seeing familiar passages with “new eyes” or a different perspective in terms of interpretation and cross-referencing.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2, 5 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, [2] not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. . . . [5] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?

These are the passages that stimulated me to undertake this present analysis. I happened to see them while I was examining the context for the famous prooftext for apostolic tradition, 2 Thessalonians 2:15: “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” What’s striking — especially in context — is Paul’s free and easy equation of the authority and trustworthiness of oral teaching alongside written.

He clearly asserts the authority of his epistle (and by implication, all his epistles), in 2:15 and also 3:14: “If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed” (cf. 1 Thess 5:27; Col 4:16). Protestants readily agree with us in that regard. But they seem to overlook the fact that he also gives his oral word the same authority (in 2:13 and 2:2, 5; cf. 1 Thess 2:13; 2 Tim 1:13-14; 2:2). 

1 Thessalonians 3:2-4 and we sent Timothy, our brother and God’s servant in the gospel of Christ, to establish you in your faith and to exhort you, [3] that no one be moved by these afflictions. You yourselves know that this is to be our lot. [4] For when we were with you, we told you beforehand that we were to suffer affliction; just as it has come to pass, and as you know.

This is a fascinating equation of written and oral teaching. The teaching (that Christians were to fully expect afflictions and sufferings) is in writing as part of this epistle. But note that it was also authoritatively proclaimed orally by Paul (“beforehand”) and also by Timothy (“exhort[ed] you”). Thus, in three verses Paul provides proof of “equal” oral and written proclamation of the same teaching. The logical conclusion is that he sees no difference in authority, whether a teaching comes through oral proclamation or tradition, or the written medium.

In other words, it’s the Catholic understanding of the rule of faith, whereby tradition (including oral tradition) and writing in what was to be understood (later) as Scripture have the same authority and binding nature. The Thessalonians were just as bound by the teaching when Paul spoke it to them and Timothy further exhorted them, as when they received Paul’s letter.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

I’ve noted in books and several papers that “word of God” in Scripture is much more often referring to authoritative prophetic or apostolic preaching rather than to Holy Scripture itself. In this instance, what the Thessalonians “heard” was not only the true gospel and accompanying Christian teachings, but indeed, the very “word of God.” It’s hard to imagine a stronger statement of the veracity and trustworthiness of oral tradition.

2 Timothy 2:2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Here Timothy receives oral traditions and passes them on to others (orally or, if in writing, not inspired writing like Scripture), who in turn teach yet more people. Conclusion: oral tradition has the same authority as written / scriptural tradition. Otherwise, Paul would have to restrict such things, passed on in turn to others, to what was in his epistles only. But he never does that. He tells Timothy (in inspired Scripture) to “entrust” his oral teaching to others to in turn pass on. He refers to his epistles in a “non-exclusive” way that doesn’t rule out oral teachings alongside them (precisely as in the rule of faith of Catholicism, not Protestantism).  

Ephesians 1:13 . . . you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation . . .

Ephesians 3:2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you,

Ephesians 4:21 assuming that you have heard about him [Christ] and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus.

Philippians 4:9 What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do; and the God of peace will be with you.

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel [6] which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing — so among yourselves, from the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth,

Colossians 1:23 . . . not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, . . . 

These are many instances of hearing the oral tradition, or gospel (which are essentially synonymous in the New Testament and especially in St. Paul’s usage). The Philippians were bound to “do” not only what they learned from Paul’s letters, but also what they heard him orally teach (Phil 4:9). Oral tradition or proclamation was “the word of [the] truth” (Eph 1:13; Col 1:5) and a form of the “gospel” (Eph 1:13; Col 1:5, 23).

1 Corinthians 2:1, 4, 13 When I came to you, brethren, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God in lofty words or wisdom. . . . [4] and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, . . . [13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.

This is more indication of the authoritative weightiness and power of oral proclamation / tradition.

2 Corinthians 10:9-11 I would not seem to be frightening you with letters. [10] For they say, “His letters are weighty and strong, but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech of no account.” [11] Let such people understand that what we say by letter when absent, we do when present.

This is an interesting sort of equivalence between Paul’s letters and his providing an example when he is with the Corinthians. He’s teaching that his example when with them is a form of teaching also, which is not written (see Phil 4:9 above and 1 Cor 4:16; 11:1; Phil 3:17; 1 Thess 1:6-7; 2 Thess 3:7-9). St. Paul in turn imitates Christ (1 Cor 11:1; 1 Thess 1:6). 

2 Corinthians 3:1-3  Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? [2] You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on your hearts, to be known and read by all men; [3] and you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Here, St. Paul continues (in a fascinating rhetorical and splendidly eloquent way) the same sort of analysis of the harmonious nature of writing and behavior of believers.

Acts 15:22-23, 27-32, 35; 16:4 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsab’bas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, [23] with the following letter: . . . [27] We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. [28] For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: [29] that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.” [30] So when they were sent off, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. [31] And when they read it, they rejoiced at the exhortation. [32] And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, exhorted the brethren with many words and strengthened them. . . . [35] But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. . . . [16:4] As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem.

This is Paul-related, but written by Luke. It shows the same outlook: equality of authority whether something is taught orally or through a letter.  It had to do with the decision of the Jerusalem Council, which decreed a teaching which was binding on all churches (as seen in Acts 16:4). The teaching was delivered through a written letter (15:23; 30-31; cf. 16:4). Note that the decision was determined by an assembly of apostles and other elders in the early Church (without any known or stated biblical argumentation, in order to arrive at the decision), and then sent out to be observed by the Church as a whole (this is the Catholic understanding of authoritative ecumenical councils). 

What is remarkable is how the verbal proclamation is made equal to the letter itself, in the words, “Judas and Silas, . . . will tell you the same things by word of mouth” (15:27). Then reference is made to Judas and Silas exhorting and strengthening “the brethren” (15:32) and Paul and Barnabas “teaching and preaching the word of the Lord” (15:35).

There isn’t the slightest hint of a verbal oral tradition or proclamation being lesser than a written one. The entire episode is completely in accord with the Catholic understanding of the rule of faith: the “three-legged stool” of Bible-Tradition-Church.

Protestants (as always) offer a counter-reply to our rule of faith. They call it “inscripturation.” It is explained at length by the late Protestant apologist Norman Geisler, writing with Ralph MacKenzie, in the article, “A Defense of Sola Scriptura” (Christian Research Institute,  4-8-09):

[T]he only reason Jesus and the apostles could appeal to an authority outside the Bible was that God was still giving normative (i.e., standard-setting) revelation for the faith and morals of believers. This revelation was often first communicated orally before it was finally committed to writing (e.g., 2 Thess. 2:5). Therefore, it is not legitimate to appeal to any oral revelation in New Testament times as proof that nonbiblical infallible authority is in existence today. . . . 

Roman Catholics admit that the New Testament is the only infallible record of apostolic teaching we have from the first century. However, they do not seem to appreciate the significance of this fact as it bears on the Protestant argument for sola Scriptura. For even many early fathers testified to the fact that all apostolic teaching was put in the New Testament. While acknowledging the existence of apostolic tradition, J. D. N. Kelly concluded that “admittedly there is no evidence for beliefs or practices current in the period which were not vouched for in the books later known as the New Testament.” . . . 

It is true that the New Testament speaks of following the “traditions” (=teachings) of the apostles, whether oral or written. This is because they were living authorities set up by Christ (Matt. 18:18; Acts 2:42; Eph. 2:20). When they died, however, there was no longer a living apostolic authority since only those who were eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ could have apostolic authority (Acts 1:22; 1 Cor. 9:1). Because the New Testament is the only inspired (infallible) record of what the apostles taught, it follows that since the death of the apostles the only apostolic authority we have is the inspired record of their teaching in the New Testament. That is, all apostolic tradition (teaching) on faith and practice is in the New Testament. This does not necessarily mean that everything the apostles ever taught is in the New Testament, any more than everything Jesus said is there (cf. John 20:30; 21:25). What it does mean is that all apostolic teaching that God deemed necessary for the faith and practice (morals) of the church was preserved (2 Tim. 3:15-17). It is only reasonable to infer that God would preserve what He inspired. The fact that apostles sometimes referred to “traditions” they gave orally as authoritative in no way diminishes the Protestant argument for sola Scriptura. First, it is not necessary to claim that these oral teachings were inspired or infallible, only that they were authoritative. . . . 

[H]owever authoritative the apostles were by their office, only their inscripturated words are inspired and infallible (2 Tim. 3:16-17; cf. John 10:35). There is not a shred of evidence that any of the revelation God gave them to express was not inscripturated by them in the only books — the inspired books of the New Testament — that they left for the church[my bolding]

Inscripturation as a counter-reply to the biblical / Catholic rule of faith utterly fails, and is itself merely an unbiblical tradition of men (therefore, self-refuting, given Protestant premises of sola Scriptura). It’s simply not taught in the Bible. Rather, it’s assumed without any biblical indication (neither expressly stated nor even deduced). The Bible never teaches what Geisler teaches: “all apostolic tradition (teaching) on faith and practice is in the New Testament.” How could he or any Protestant possibly know that? The Bible doesn’t state it.

If they disagree, let them produce any statement in the Bible that claims such a thing. They usually don’t even try, but Geisler (in desperation, whether he knew it or not) trots out the old reliable warhorse, 2 Timothy 3:15-17. It says nothing whatsoever along these lines. It simply teaches that Scripture is great for teaching and reproof, etc. (which no one disagrees with). For all the biblical references above, and articulate presentation, Geisler’s teaching above is, in the final analysis, not based on what the Bible teaches (all things considered) regarding these matters, and contrary to many things that it does undeniably teach.

In a paper of mine from 2004, I refuted this notion of “inscripturation” from the Bible, in reply to Reformed Baptist anti-Catholic polemicist James White:

[T]his is a foolish approach because it would require us to believe that Paul and other apostles were in error with regard to how Christian or Church authority works. . . . If they believed in sola Scriptura (as models for us), then they would have taught what they knew to be Scripture (in those days, the Old Testament), and that alone, as binding and authoritative (for this is what sola Scriptura holds). If they didn’t understand authority in the way that God desired, how could they be our models [1 Cor 4:16; Phil 3:17; 2 Thess 3:7-9]? And if the very apostles who wrote Scripture didn’t understand it, and applied it incorrectly in such an important matter, how can we be expected to, from that same Scripture? A stream can’t rise above its source.

Lastly, White implicitly assumes here, as he often does, that everything the apostles taught was later doctrinally recorded in Scripture. This is his hidden premise (or it follows from his reasoning, whether he is aware of it or not). But this is a completely arbitrary assumption. Protestants have to believe something akin to this notion, because of their aversion to authoritative, binding tradition, but the notion itself is unbiblical. They agree that what apostles taught was binding, but they fail to see that some of that teaching would be “extrabiblical” (i.e., not recorded in Scripture). The Bible itself, however, teaches us that there are such teachings and deeds not recorded in it (Jn 20:30, 21:25, Acts 1:2-3, Lk 24:15-16,25-27). The logic is simple (at least when laid out for all to see):

1. Apostles’ teaching was authoritative and binding [i.e., for all practical purposes, “infallible”].
2. Some of that teaching was recorded in Scripture, but some was not.
3. The folks who heard their teaching were bound to it whether it was later “inscripturated” or not.
4. Therefore, early Christians were bound to “unbiblical” teachings or those not known to be “biblical” (as the Bible would not yet be canonized until more than three centuries later).
5. If they were so bound, it stands to reason that we could and should be, also.
6. Scripture itself does not rule out the presence of an authoritative oral tradition, not recorded in words. Paul refers more than once to a non-written tradition (e.g., 2 Tim 1:13-14, 2:2).
7. Scripture informs us that much more was taught by Jesus and apostles than what is recorded in it.
8. Scripture nowhere teaches that it is the sole rule of faith or that what is recorded in it about early Church history has no relevance to later Christians because this was the apostolic or “inscripturation” period. Those are all arbitrary, unbiblical traditions of men.

. . . Where in the Bible does it say that this period is absolutely unique because the Bible was being written during it? The inspired Bible either has examples of historical events in it which are models for us, or it doesn’t. If it does, White’s case collapses again. If it doesn’t, I need to hear why someone would think that, based on the Bible itself, which doesn’t even list its own books, let alone teach us that we can’t determine how the Church was to be governed by observing how the first Christians did it.

Why do we have to still have apostles around in order to follow their example, as we are commanded to do? What does the ending of revelation have to do with that, either? Therefore, it is (strictly-speaking) an “extrabiblical tradition.” If so, then it is inadmissible (in the sense of being binding) according to the doctrine of sola Scriptura. If that is the case, then I am under no obligation to accept it; it is merely white’s arbitrary opinion. Nor is White himself. He contradicts himself, and this is a self-defeating scenario, involving the following self-contradiction: “In upholding the principle which holds only biblical teachings as infallible and binding, I must appeal to an extrabiblical teaching.”

This is utterly incoherent, inconsistent reasoning, and must, therefore, be rejected.

I also addressed the topic again in my 2012 book, 100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura (pp. 39-41):

19) Inscripturation is not the final determinant of binding truthfulness

When Paul was preaching to the Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians, et al, he preached authoritatively, as an apostle. Not everything he said was later included in the Bible; therefore it was not all inspired (he was no walking Bible-machine any more than Jesus was). But he was an authority, and acted consciously upon this authority.

Some Protestants who hold to extreme variants of sola scriptura, on the other hand, would have us believe that his authority, in the final analysis, depends upon the Christian being able to read an epistle of Paul’s, knowing that it was part of the New Testament, and doing so without the aid of an authoritative Church that could declare what was Scripture and make the canon binding on all Christians.

This is directly implied in some Protestant arguments contending that everything Paul taught, including every tradition to which he alludes, was later inscripturated. Thus anything not recorded in Scripture could not have been taught or passed down by Paul, so the flip side of the same proposition would hold — a contention that is absurd on its face.

Sixteenth-century Anglican apologist William Whitaker asserts this in his elaborate defense of sola scriptura (highly touted by proponents today, especially anti-Catholic ones), entitled A Disputation on Holy Scripture [1]:

I confess that Christ said many things about the kingdom, but of the popish traditions not a word. . . . From Matt, xxviii., Mark xvi., John xx. and xxi., Luke xxiv., and Acts i., we may gather the nature of his discourses. He expounded to them the scriptures; he gave them authority to cast out devils, to retain and remit sins; he attested his resurrection to them; he bade them preach the gospel to all nations, and said other things of the same kind, which we can read in scripture, so that we have no need of such conjectures as the papists rely upon in this question (p. 548)

The things which Paul delivered orally were not different from, but absolutely the same with, those which were written (p. 552)

The Jesuit answers, in the second place, that, even though it were conceded that all is written in other books, yet this would be no objection to believing in traditions also. For (says he) the apostle does not say, I promise that I or the other apostles will commit all the rest to writing, but, “hold the traditions.” I answer; Although Paul had never written or made such a promise, does it follow that all the rest were not written by other apostles? (p. 554)

The third place cited by the Jesuit in this fourth testimony is contained in 2 Tim. ii. 2, where Paul thus addresses Timothy: “Those things which thou hast heard of me before many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to instruct others also.” . . . The apostle in these words commends sound doctrine to Timothy, and that no other than what is contained in the scriptures (p. 557)

This assumption—that no legitimate apostolic traditions could possibly have been passed down that are not also explicitly laid out in Holy Scripture—is not found anywhere in Scripture itself. Since it is based on no solid evidence, whether biblical or historiographical, and, as seen, is contradicted by many biblical indications, we can safely dismiss it—as most Protestants do.

[1] from the online version, translated and edited by William Fitzgerald and published by The University Press, Cambridge, in 1849. 

As an example of a Protestant who accepts the binding, infallible nature of a teaching even if it isn’t taught in the Bible, I submit Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism. The following is from a paper of  mine, dated 1-18-08:

[Protestant historian Philip] Schaff, on page 95 cites Luther’s letter to Albrecht (or Albert), Margrave of Brandenburg and Duke of Prussia, dated April 1532 by some and February or early March by others (cf. another Schaff reference to the quote). The well-known Luther biographer Roland H. Bainton cites the following portion of it:

This testimony of the universal holy Christian Church, even if we had nothing else, would be a sufficient warrant for holding this article [on the sacrament] and refusing to suffer or listen to a sectary, for it is dangerous and fearful to hear or believe anything against the unanimous testimony, belief, and teaching of the universal holy Christian churches, unanimously held in all the world from the beginning until now over fifteen hundred years. (Studies on the Reformation, Boston: Beacon Press, 1963, p. 26; primary source: WA [Werke, Weimar edition in German], Vol. XXX, 552)

This letter, apparently passed over by Luther’s Works, Vol. 50 (Letters III), was, thankfully, cited at some length by Schaff on his page 95, and refers to, as Schaff notes, “the real presence of Christ in the Lord’s Supper”:

Moreover, this article has been unanimously believed and held from the beginning of the Christian Church to the present hour, as may be shown from the books and writings of the dear fathers, both in the Greek and Latin languages, — which testimony of the entire holy Christian Church ought to be sufficient for us, even if we had nothing more. For it is dangerous and dreadful to hear or believe anything against the unanimous testimony, faith, and doctrine of the entire holy Christian Church, as it has been held unanimously in all the world up to this year 1500. Whoever now doubts of this, he does just as much as if he believed in no Christian Church, and condemns not only the entire holy Christian Church as a damnable heresy, but Christ Himself, and all the Apostles and Prophets, who founded this article, when we say, ‘I believe in a holy Christian Church,’ to which Christ bears powerful testimony in Matt. 28.20: ‘Lo, I am with you alway, to the end of the world,’ and Paul, in 1 Tim. 3.15: ‘The Church is the pillar and ground of the truth.’  (italics are Schaff’s own; cf. abridged [?] version in Preserved Smith, The Life and Letters of Martin Luther [Boston and New York: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1911], pp. 290-292; Johann Adam Mohler, Symbolism, 1844, p. 400)

Philip Schaff, writing in The Reformed Quarterly Review, July, 1888p. 295, cites the passage yet again, and reiterates:

Luther combined with the boldest independence a strong reverence for the historical faith. He derives from the unbroken tradition of the church an argument against the Zwinglians for the real presence in the Eucharist . . . A Roman controversialist could not lay more stress on tradition than Luther does in this passage.

St. Augustine taught the same with regard to apostolic tradition and a denial of “inscripturation”: about infant baptism, rebaptizing schismatics, baptismal regeneration and other issues:

As to those other things which we hold on the authority, not of Scripture, but of tradition, and which are observed throughout the whole world, it may be understood that they are held as approved and instituted either by the apostles themselves, or by plenary Councils, whose authority in the Church is most useful, . . .For often have I perceived, with extreme sorrow, many disquietudes caused to weak brethren by the contentious pertinacity or superstitious vacillation of some who, in matters of this kind, which do not admit of final decision by the authority of Holy Scripture, or by the tradition of the universal Church. (Letter to Januarius, 54, 1, 1; 54, 2, 3; cf. NPNF I, I:301)

I believe that this practice [of not rebaptizing heretics and schismatics] comes from apostolic tradition, just as so many other practices not found in their writings nor in the councils of their successors, but which, because they are kept by the whole Church everywhere, are believed to have been commanded and handed down by the Apostles themselves. (On Baptism, 2, 7, 12; from William A. Jurgens, editor and translator, The Faith of the Early Fathers, 3 volumes, Collegeville, Minnesota: Liturgical Press, 1970, vol. 3: 66; cf. NPNF I, IV:430)

[T]he custom, which is opposed to Cyprian, may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings. (On Baptism, 5,23:31, in NPNF I, IV:475)

The Christians of Carthage have an excellent name for the sacraments, when they say that baptism is nothing else than “salvation” and the sacrament of the body of Christ nothing else than “life.” Whence, however, was this derived, but from that primitive, as I suppose, and apostolic tradition, by which the Churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism and partaking of the supper of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and everlasting life? (On Forgiveness of Sins and Baptism, 1:34, in NPNF I, V:28)

[F]rom whatever source it was handed down to the Church – although the authority of the canonical Scriptures cannot be brought forward as speaking expressly in its support. (Letter to Evodius of Uzalis, Epistle 164:6, in NPNF I, I:516)

The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants [is] certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except Apostolic. (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis, 10,23:39, in William A. Jurgens, editor and translator, The Faith of the Early Fathers, 3 volumes, Collegeville, Minnesota: Liturgical Press, 1970, vol. 3: 86)

It is obvious; the faith allows it; the Catholic Church approves; it is true. (Sermon 117, 6)

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Related Reading

Dialogue on “Perspicuous Apostolic Teaching” (vs. James White) [May-June 1996]

Biblical Evidence for Apostolic Oral Tradition [2-20-09]

Biblical Evidence for the Oral Torah [10-18-11]

Dialogue on Oral Tradition & Apostolic Succession (vs. John E. Taylor) [5-17-17]

Anglican Newman on Oral & Written Apostolic Tradition [10-12-19]

Oral Tradition According to Great Historic Apologists [10-18-19]

Vs. James White #14: Word of God / the Lord Usually Oral (+ White’s Own Erroneous Definition of Sola Scriptura in 1990 (at the same time I got it right) [11-18-19]

Jesus the “Nazarene”: Did Matthew Make Up a “Prophecy”? (Reply to Jonathan M. S. Pearce from the Blog, A Tippling Philosopher / Oral Traditions and Possible Lost Old Testament Books Referred to in the Bible) [12-17-20]

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Summary: I briefly present and comment on passages regarding oral tradition that I had overlooked up till now. Then I take on the false and desperate Protestant tradition of men: “inscripturation.”

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2020-12-16T12:59:31-04:00

. . . With My Biblical and Historical Refutations

I have always been fascinated and revolted by this sort of thinking, which is simultaneously so unbiblical and anti-historical in nature, whereas ironically the same opponents of Christmas have viewed themselves as exceptionally “biblical” and  “Christian” in a way that we lowly, pagan Christmas celebrants allegedly are not. Much of this thinking was at root, anti-Catholic as well, or even anti-Anglican or anti-Lutheran (anti- any Christians group other than extreme Calvinism / Puritanism).

There was also a strain of opposition that made perfect sense from a Christian and biblical perspective: in cases where the celebration of Christmas had become truly raucous, drunken, and even sexualized, and had little or nothing to do with the true meaning of Christmas (sort of like what New Year’s Eve has become). I’m not interested in documenting that because I agree with it. Nor do I have any interest in purely personal / emotional Scrooge-like opposition.

I deal here with purely theological opposition. It’s good and worthwhile to address such a topic as an apologist, even though this fringe view is held today by a miniscule number of Christians. Sources are listed at the end by number, so they can be referred to for each excerpt. All citations will be indented. I have removed the over-abundance of bolding.

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I. Antipathy to Holy Days

The regulative principle of worship has clear implications for those who want to promote the celebration of Christmas. The Regulative Principle forces those who celebrate Christmas to prove from Scripture that God has authorized the celebrating of such a day. This, in fact, is impossible. [2]

The reason that Christmas became a church holy day has nothing to do with the Bible. [2]

[C]oncerning festival days findeth that in the explication of the first head of the first book of discipline it was thought good that the feasts of Christmas, Circumcision, Epiphany, with the feasts of the Apostles, Martyrs, and Virgin Mary be utterly abolished because they are neither commanded nor warranted by Scripture and that such as observe them be punished by Civil Magistrates. Here utter abolition is craved and not reformation of abuses only and that because the observation of such feasts have no warrant from the word of God. [5]

I would to God that every holy day whatsoever besides the Lord’s day were abolished. [7]

The Bible teaches both about holy days and the veneration of saints, including certainly a much-higher worship and adoration of our Lord Jesus (which I need not even defend):

Biblical Evidences and Arguments Regarding Holy Days [9-21-09]

The Imitation of St. Paul & the Veneration of Saints [2004]

Bible on Veneration of Saints & Angels: John Calvin’s Antipathy to Veneration of Saints and Angels vs. Explicit Biblical Evidences of Same [10-1-12]

Biblical Evidence for Veneration of Saints [2013]

Bible on the Veneration of Angels & Men [9-10-15]

Veneration of Human Beings: Seven Biblical Examples (Apostles Paul and Silas, Kings David and Saul, Prophets Daniel and Samuel, Patriarch Joseph) [3-4-19]

Angel Gabriel’s “Hail” (Lk 1:28): Veneration of Mary? [3-8-19] 

II. Supposed Late Historical Arrival and Purely Pagan Origin (Saturnalia and Sol Invictus)

[T]he day was first set apart for this purpose by the authority of the bishop at Rome, toward the close of the fourth century, or early in the fifth. [3]

It is also noted that Scripture never commands the celebration of this day and that there is no evidence that Christ and the Apostles ever celebrated this day — in fact, this sycretism of paganism and “Babylonian” Christianity was not first celebrated until 354 A.D. (when December 25 was chosen, in accord with the Pagan feast of Saturnalia, as the day of “celebration”). [6]

Not true: we have records of Christian celebrations of Christmas on December 25th, from Pope St. Telesphorus (c. 125-136), the seventh bishop of Rome, St. Theophilus (AD 115-181), bishop of Caesarea, and St. Hippolytus (170-240). The Roman feast of Saturnalia was celebrated from December 17-23, not the 25th. Sol Invictus was instituted by the Roman emperor Aurelian on Christmas Day, 274 AD, 138-149 years after Christians are documented to have celebrated Christmas on December 25th. The first historical evidence of the Christian Church “Christianizing” pagan festivals is in a letter of Pope St. Gregory the Great from 601 AD.  The first suggestion that the date of Christmas was deliberately determined to be the same as pagan feasts occurred in the 12th century AD in a marginal note in the writings of the Syriac bishop Dionysius bar-Salibi.

III. Supposedly Ignorant and Non-Biblical Determination of the Date of Jesus’ Birth

The truth is, the day of Christ’s nativity has been irrecoverably lost. Had this date been designed for special religious veneration, its date would have been preserved in the Holy Record, and a divine command given for its proper observance. The absence both of the date and command, makes it as clear to us as a sunbeam, that the natal day of our Saviour, even were it known, should not be honored by any religious observance whatsoever. [4]  

The Bible does not give the date of Christ’s birth. [2]

Moreover, who knows when, in what month, He was born? The Bible is silent thereon. [10]

This is manifestly and demonstrably false. The Bible states that Jesus was six months younger than John the Baptist (Lk 1:36). So all we need to know is the date of the conception of John, which was revealed to his father Zechariah by the archangel Gabriel (Lk 1:5-24). Zechariah was a priest from the class of Abijah (Lk 1:5). These classes served for a week in the temple, two times a year (see 1 Chr 24:10; cf. 24:1-19). German Catholic theologian Josef Heinrich Friedlieb (1810-1900) documented that Zechariah’s class would have been serving in the temple in the second week of the Jewish month Tishri (late September). That was simply an inquiry directly stimulated or inspired by the biblical information.

While thus serving, the Archangel Gabriel revealed to Zechariah that his wife Elizabeth was to bear a son (Lk 1:5-24). That means that John the Baptist was conceived in late September, with his birth arriving at the end of June, 3 BC. Thus, the Church celebrates the Nativity of St. John the Baptist on June 24th. These dates aren’t just pulled out of hats with rabbits, too. Since Scripture tells us that Jesus was six months younger, then he was conceived in late March and born c. 25 December. Therefore, we do know at least the month and approximate date from Holy Scripture. 

We don’t need an express command to “worship Jesus on his birthday.” The Bible never states that it must give explicit indications of everything we are permitted to believe. God expects us to use our brains and reason. But since holy days are quite biblical (derived from the Jewish feasts and also the Sabbath and Sunday as the Lord’s day), all we need is permission to worship Jesus, which is certainly in the Bible:

Matthew 14:33 (RSV) And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” (cf. 2:2; 2:11; 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 20:20)

Matthew 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Hail!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. (cf. 28:17; Mk 5:6; Lk 24:52; Jn 5:23; 9:38)

Philippians 2:9-11 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, [10] that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, [11] and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” (cf. 7:26; Acts 2:33; 5:31; Rev 5:11-14; 7:9-12)

IV. Is it Wrong to Celebrate and “Make Merry” About the Birth of Jesus and God Becoming Man? No! Clear Biblical Models

[T]he natal day of our Saviour, even were it known, should not be honored by any religious observance whatsoever. [4]  

Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to celebrate Christmas. [2]

But, says someone, Christmas is the time when we commemorate the Savior’s birth. It is? And WHO authorized such commemoration? Certainly God did not. The Redeemer bade His disciples “remember” Him in His death, but there is not a word in scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, which tells us to celebrate His birth. . . .  It is without reason that the only “birthday” commemorations mentioned in God’s Word are Pharaoh’s (Gen. 40:20) and Herod’s (Matt. 14:6)? . . . State plainly that you have been brought to see that “Christmas merrymaking” is entirely a thing OF THE WORLD, devoid of any Scriptural warrant; that it is a Romish institution, and now that you see this, you dare no longer have any fellowship with it (Eph. 5:11) [10]

How are we taught to act with regard to Jesus’ birth and Christmas, according to Scriptural models? We do definitely have those. An angel of the Lord told the shepherds in the field near Bethlehem: “I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord” (Lk 2:10-11). Then a “multitude” of angels were “praising God and saying, ‘Glory to God in the highest'” because of the birth of Jesus (Lk 2:13-14). The shepherds, after finding Jesus and worshiping Him, were “glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them” (Lk 2:20). Likewise, the wise men, along with their worship, “rejoiced exceedingly with great joy” (Mt 2:10).

Se we see all of that: showing how both angels and men reacted to the birth of Jesus, but now the oh-so-pious Calvinists (well, an extreme fringe of them) want to come and tell us that it’s wrong and unbiblical and immoral — against God’s will — to celebrate the birth of Jesus our Lord and Savior and Redeemer? It’s not only ridiculous in the highest degree, but wicked and blasphemous to believe such a thing. These are natural human emotions, and we can and should express them on holidays, with celebrations and happiness and joy and merriment. This is how King David acted before the ark of the covenant, which contained God’s special presence:

2 Samuel 6:5, 14-16, 21 And David and all the house of Israel were making merry before the LORD with all their might, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals. . . . [14] And David danced before the LORD with all his might; . . . [15] So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the horn. [16] . . . King David leaping and dancing before the LORD . . . [21] And David said to Michal, “. . . I will make merry before the LORD.”

How much more do we and should we show joy and “make merry” and dance and play music to celebrate God becoming man? If we can’t be joyful and demonstrative about that (the Good News!), then we should about nothing at all.

V. Christmas Trees as Idols

“Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. ” (Jer. 10:2-4).  [1]

See:

Christmas Trees as Idols?: Silly Biblical “Arguments” [12-12-10] 

VI. Antipathy to Celebration of the Sacrifice of the Mass on Christmas, as Indicated by its Name / Supposed Idolatry

The word Christ-mass is enough to cause such as are studious of reformation to dislike what shall be known by a name so superstitious. Why should Protestants own any thing which has the name of Mass in it? How unsuitable is it to join Christ and Mass together? i.e., Christ and Antichrist. But what Communion has light with Darkness, and what concord hath Christ with Belial? [8]

By communicating with idolaters in their rites and ceremonies, we ourselves become guilty of idolatry; even as Ahaz, 2 Kings 16:10, was an idolater, eo ipso, that he took the pattern of an altar from idolaters. [9]

See:

Sacrifice of the Mass: A Biblical Overview [1994] 

Is the Mass Equivalent to OT Golden Calf Worship? [1996] 

Why Transubstantiation Isn’t Idolatry At All [11-22-96]

Sacrifice of the Mass & Hebrews 8 (vs. James White) [3-31-04]

Dialogue: Is the Mass Similar to Jeroboam’s Idolatry? [8-7-04] 

Catholic Mass: Can’t Possibly be Idolatrous [12-15-08]

Passover in Judaism & a Mass that Transcends Time (“Past Events Become Present Today”/ Survey of “Remember” in Scripture) [7-7-09]

The Timeless Crucifixion & the Sacrifice of the Mass [9-25-09]

Sacrifice of the Mass and NT Altars (vs. Calvin #49) [12-9-09]

Anti-Catholics & Alleged Catholic Idol-Worship at Mass [4-11-11]

Mass: Re-Sacrifice? (vs. Lutheran Pastor Ken Howes) [4-2-12]

Biblical Idolatry: Authentic & Counterfeit Conceptions [2015]

Biblical Evidence for the Continuation of Priests as an Office [9-13-15]

St. Paul Was a Priest [9-15-15]

Luther Espoused Eucharistic Adoration [9-17-15]

Catholic Mass: “Re-Sacrifice” of Jesus? [11-19-15]

Newsflash!: Catholicism Utterly Opposes Idolatry, Too [1-18-17]

Eucharistic Adoration: Explicit & Undeniable Biblical Analogies [2-1-19]

VII. No Worship or Christian Celebration That Isn’t Explicitly Sanctioned and Mentioned in Scripture is Permitted?

The scriptures, both by precept and example, forbid the use of any form of worship which is not ordained by God. Since Christmas has no biblical warrant, it should be rejected, even if there were no other reason to question it. [11]

Well, it does in fact have quite a bit of biblical warrant and indication, as shown in sections I, II, and IV above. But why does anyone think that the Bible teaches that everything must be explicit in the Bible to be believed by Christians in the first place? This is itself an unbiblical doctrine. I wrote in my article, “Explicit” Bible Proofs and Protestant Double Standards (2-12-16):

[T]he New Testament never mentions an “altar call”. It never has the typical “sinner’s prayer” of evangelicals. It doesn’t mention church buildings. It never uses the word “Trinity.” It never uses the frequently mentioned evangelical terminology of “personal relationship with Jesus.” It never lists its own books (the biblical canon comes from the authority and proclamations of the Catholic Church and tradition). It never teaches sola Scriptura, or the concept that the Bible is the only infallible source of authority. Yet –oddly enough and passing strange —  this is one of the very “pillars” of the Protestant worldview.

Other beliefs or practices not explicitly mentioned in the Bible are Bible studies, separating young people during church services, and grape juice as an element to be consecrated for communion (rather than wine), “asking Jesus into one’s heart,” a “body of believers,” Scripture interpreting Scripture (the more clear helping to understand the less clear), agreeing on “essential” or “primary” doctrines and permitted relativism regarding “non-essential” or “secondary” doctrines, denominations (vs. the biblical “one Church”). Of course, this very idea that one must find explicit biblical proof for every doctrine or it can’t / mustn’t be believed (even with high selectivity or rank inconsistency) is not found in the Bible anywhere, either. It’s (irony of all ironies!) a mere tradition of men.

Some popular Protestant (and also often Catholic) words or phrases  that do not appear in the Bible are raptureinvisible church, incarnationvirgin birth, holy communionLord’s prayerBibleoriginal sinfall of mantheologygo[ing] to churchgrace alone[total] depravityunconditional electionlimited atonementirresistible graceperseverance of the saintsspiritualityScripture alone, pray for guidancepray for directionspiritual warfare, and sin natureFaith alone only appears once:

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Protestants manage to believe all these things (or use these words) with no problem whatever. Why? Or, more specifically, why do they believe these things, which are absent from or non-explicit in the Bible, while giving Catholics misery for similar things, or else doctrines and practices with far more indication of various sorts than the things above, that Protestants accept? Why the double standard?

VIII. The Evil of Manger Scenes, Which Foster Idolatry?

Moreover, during the Christmas season numerous manger scenes and religious images are erected in public places, church buildings and homes. This multiplication of graven images is a blatant violation of the second commandment, which explicitly forbids making or using any pictorial representations of God. The second commandment prohibits the making of any images of God, including “pictures of Christ” in the manger. [11]

This is sheer nonsense. In fact, images of God Himself appear many times in Scripture, even in conjunction with worship, and crucifixes are in effect sanctioned:

Veneration of Images, Iconoclasm, and Idolatry (An Exposition) [11-15-02]

Martin Luther on Crucifixes, Images and Statues of Saints, and the Sign of the Cross [4-15-08] 

Dialogue on Sacramentalism, Holy Objects, and Relics [2-26-09]

Bible on Physical Objects as Aids in Worship [4-7-09]

Calvin, Zwingli, and Bullinger vs. Statues of Christ, Crucifixes, & Crosses [9-19-09]

Crucifixes: Abominable Idols or Devotional Aids? [11-10-09]

Biblical Evidence for Worship of God Via an Image [6-24-11]

The Bronze Serpent: Example of Proper Use of Images [Feb. 2012]

“Graven Images”: Unbiblical Iconoclasm (vs. John Calvin) [Oct. 2012]

Biblical Idolatry: Authentic & Counterfeit Conceptions [2015]

Should God the Father be Visually Depicted in Paintings? [2015]

“Armstrong vs. Geisler” #9: Images & Relics [3-2-17]

Statues in Relation to Bowing, Prayer, & Worship in Scripture [12-26-17]

Crucifixes & Worship Images: “New” (?) Biblical Arguments [1-18-20]

St. Newman vs. Inconsistent Protestant Iconoclasts [3-21-20]

“Turretinfan” Calls a Statue of Jesus Christ an “Idol” (While His Buddy Bishop James White Praises the Statues of “Reformers” Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox) [6-8-10; rev. 6-24-20]

Is Worship of God Through an Image Biblical? (vs. Luke Wayne) [11-10-20]

Sources

1) Classic Reformation (Puritan & Reformed) Teaching On Christmas and Other Holy Days (Or Christmas, and All Man-Made Holy Days, Condemned By Christ)

2) The Regulative Principle of Worship and Christmas (book by Brian Schwertley, 1996).

3) “Christmas,” from The Reformed Presbyterian magazine, January, 1851.

4) “Christmas,” from The Associate Presbyterian Magazine, February, 1879.

5) The Acts of the General Assemblies of the Church of Scotland, December 10, Session 17, 1638, pp. 37-38.

6) Pastor Greg L. Price, sermon: “Christmas Condemned by Christ.”

7) Martin Bucer, cited in William Ames,  A Fresh Suit Against Human Ceremonies in God’s Worship (1633) , pp. 359-60.

8) Increase Mather’s Testimony Against that Prophane and Superstitious Custom of Christ-mass Keeping.

9) A Dispute Against English Popish Ceremonies, in Gillespie’s Works volume one, p. 80.

10) “Xmas (Christmas)”, by A. W. Pink.

11) ChristmasAn Historical Survey Regarding Its Origins and Opposition to It, by Kevin Reed, 1995.

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Photo credit: Kfoulk (4-4-13): Bethlehem, Church of the Nativity in Manger Square; where Jesus was born [Wikimedia CommonsCreative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license]

 

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