November 8, 2006

BibleRosary
Photograph by Chris Sloan, 28 Nov. 2009 [Flickr / CC BY 2.0 license]
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Table of Contents

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I. Relationship of the Bible to the Church
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II. Tradition (Apostolic)
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III. Sola Scriptura (Scripture as the Only Infallible Authority)
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IV. Perspicuity (Clearness) of Scripture
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V. Material and Formal Sufficiency of Scripture / Rule of Faith
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VI. The Canon of Scripture
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VII. Deuterocanonical Books (So-Called “Apocrypha”)
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VIII. Biblical Accuracy / Alleged Biblical Contradictions and Difficulties
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I. RELATIONSHIP OF THE BIBLE TO THE CHURCH
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Why Do Christians Believe in Biblical Inspiration? (Archaeological, Prophetic, and Manuscript Evidences) [1987]

An Introduction to Bible Interpretation [1987]

Apologetics-Oriented Biblical Commentary on Philippians (RSV) [1998]

Apologetics-Oriented Biblical Commentary on Colossians (RSV) [1998]

Laymen’s Greek & Hebrew Bible Resources for Free [1-22-02; linked sources added on 11-28-16]

“Why Don’t Catholics Read the Bible?” [6-26-02]

Catholic “Three-Legged Stool”: Scripture, Tradition, & Church: Dialogue with an Anglican on the Catholic Rule of Faith (vs. Jon Jacobson) [10-31-02]

The Freedom of the Catholic Biblical Exegete / Interpreter + Bible Passages that the Church has Definitively Interpreted [9-14-03]

“Biblical Evidence” from the Catholic Point of View [2-1-08]

Bibles & Catholics, Sunday School?, Memorization, Etc. [9-25-08]

Books by Dave Armstrong: Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths: A Source Book for Apologists and Inquirers [4-18-09]

Why Folks Like the New Catholic Answer Bible (+ Clueless Anti-Catholic Attacks On It) [4-5-09; slightly revised on 8-5-21]

How Do Catholics Approach & Interpret Holy Scripture? [6-17-09]

Catholic Interpretation of Scripture (Hermeneutics / Exegesis): Resource List (Links) [6-28-09]

Were Vernacular Bibles Unknown Before Luther? (Luther’s Dubious Claims About the Supposed Utter Obscurity of the Bible Before His Translation) [6-15-11]

Reply to a Lutheran on Tradition & the Patristic Rule of Faith [1-10-12; additions on 2-20-18]

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Dialogue on Authoritative Bible Interpretation in the New Testament (vs. Reformed Baptist Elder Jim Drickamer) [1-14-17]
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Church Fathers and Sola Scriptura [originally July 2003; somewhat modified condensation: 4-5-17]
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Catholics R More Biblical Than Protestants? (Dialogue) (vs. Dustin Buck Lattimore) [5-3-17]
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The Analogy of an Infallible Bible to an Infallible Church [11-6-05; rev. 7-25-15 and 6-7-17; published at National Catholic Register: 6-16-17]
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Why Are Catholics So Deficient in Bible-Reading? [National Catholic Register, 11-22-17]
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Catholic Biblical Interpretation: Myths and Truths [National Catholic Register, 12-3-18]
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Martin Luther on the Exact Nature of Being “Biblical” [11-10-14; revised and expanded on 1-5-20]
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Vatican II Upheld Biblical Inerrancy (vs. David Palm) [4-23-20]
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No, Pope Innocent III Did Not Prohibit the Bible in 1199 [National Catholic Register, 8-2-21]
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II. TRADITION (APOSTOLIC) 
 
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Dialogue on “Perspicuous Apostolic Teaching” (vs. James White) [May-June 1996]
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“Tradition” Isn’t a Dirty Word [late 90s; rev. 8-16-16]
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 “Tradition” Is Not Always a Bad Word! [written specifically for children: 12 or younger; 2-12-14]
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Church Fathers and Sola Scriptura [originally July 2003; somewhat modified condensation: 4-5-17]
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Tradition is Not a Dirty Word — It’s a Great Gift [National Catholic Register, 4-24-17]
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Martin Luther on the Exact Nature of Being “Biblical” [11-10-14; revised and expanded on 1-5-20]
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2 Thessalonians 2:15 & Tradition (vs. Steve Hays) [5-12-20]
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The Bible Alone? That’s Not What the Bible Says [National Catholic Register, 3-5-21]
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Extra-Biblical, Spirit-Led Prophecy After the Day of Pentecost [4-1-21; published at Catholic365, 11-7-23]
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How Did the Gospel Writers Know About ‘Hidden’ Events? [National Catholic Register, 3-31-22]
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Pharisees, “Moses’ Seat”, Tradition & Catholicism [Dec. 2003 and May 2005; a condensed, re-edited, and mildly revised version: 5-1-22]
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The Authority of Apostolic Tradition: chapter one of my 2009 book, Bible Truths for Catholic Truths: A Source Book for Apologists and Inquirers [10-9-23]
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 III. SOLA SCRIPTURA
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Debate: Church Fathers & Sola Scriptura (vs. Jason Engwer) [8-1-03]

Ten Church Fathers & Sola Scriptura (vs. Jason Engwer) [8-1-03]

Sola Scriptura: Unbiblical!: Refutation of Dr. Richard Bennett [9-15-03]

Refutation of Dr. John MacArthur’s Sola Scriptura Defense: “The Sufficiency of the Written Word” [9-15-03]

Biblical Argumentation: Same as Sola Scriptura? [10-7-03]

Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura [10-10-03]

55-Minute Interview on Catholic Answers Live: “Why we Need More than the Bible” (listen to audio file: see #8) (10-10-03)

“Moses’ Seat” & Jesus vs. Sola Scriptura (vs. James White) [12-27-03]

Sola Scriptura and Private Judgment Are Logically Circular [1-28-04; slight modifications and abridgment on 9-5-17]

Difficulties of Authority: Luther, Calvin, & Protestantism [4-11-04]

Sola Scriptura is Self-Defeating and False if Not in the Bible (vs. Kevin Johnson) [5-4-04]

Jerusalem Council vs. Sola Scriptura [9-2-04]

Analyzing Luther / Protestant Traditions of Men Inevitable [9-29-04]

Dialogue: Lutherans, Sola Scriptura, & the Church Fathers [5-29-05]

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Papal Infallibility Doctrine: History (Including Luther’s Dissent at the Leipzig Disputation in 1519) (Related also to the particular circumstances of the origins of sola Scriptura) [10-8-07]
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Sola Scriptura Debate (vs. C. Michael Patton) [10-19-08]
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10-Point Biblical Refutation of Sola Scriptura [National Catholic Register, 12-11-16]
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Church Fathers and Sola Scriptura [originally July 2003; somewhat modified condensation: 4-5-17]
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Catholics R More Biblical Than Protestants? (Dialogue) (vs. Dustin Buck Lattimore) [5-3-17]
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3 Effective Biblical Refutations of Sola Scriptura [National Catholic Register, 11-12-17]
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David T. King Ignores Sola Scriptura Biblical Disproofs (Incl. lengthy analysis of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation”) [11-13-17]
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The New Testament Canon is a “Late” Doctrine [National Catholic Register, 1-22-18]
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Martin Luther on the Exact Nature of Being “Biblical” [11-10-14; revised and expanded on 1-5-20]
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1 Timothy 3:15 = Church Infallibility (vs. Steve Hays) [5-14-20]
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Does Sola Scriptura Create Chaos? (vs. Steve Hays) [5-15-20]
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Is Sola Scriptura Self-Refuting? (vs. Bruno Lima) [10-12-22]
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IV. PERSPICUITY (CLEARNESS) OF SCRIPTURE
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Baptismal Regeneration: Central Doctrine, According to Luther & Lutheranism [1996]

Dialogue: Clearness (Perspicuity) of Scripture and the Formal Sufficiency of Scripture (vs. Carmen Bryant) [6-8-00]

Dialogue: Church Fathers on Perspicuity & Sola Scriptura [6-11-00]

The Sufficiency & Perspicuity of Scripture & the Trinity [6-16-03; slightly revised on 1-20-04]

The Revised Fundamentalist Baptist Version (RFBV) [5-18-04]

Is the Bible in Fact Clear, or “Perspicuous” to Every Individual? [2007]

Luther: Scripture Easily Grasped by “Plowboys” [11-1-08]

Erasmus’ Hyperaspistes (1526): Sola Scriptura and Perspicuity of Scripture [2-12-09]

25 Brief Arguments Regarding Biblical “Clearness” [2009]

The Perspicuity (Clearness) of Scripture: A Summary [1-22-10]

The Anglican Newman (1833-1838) on the Falsity of Perspicuity (Clearness) of Holy Scripture [3-7-11]

Bible: Completely Self-Authenticating, So that Anyone Could Come up with the Complete Canon without Formal Church Proclamations? (vs. Wm. Whitaker) [July 2012]

Perspicuity (Clearness) of Scripture (vs. Wm. Whitaker) [July 2012]

The Bible: “Clear” & “Self-Interpreting”? [February 2014]

Perspicuity (Clarity) of Holy Scripture [11-21-15]

Protestant Unity on “Central” Doctrines?: Baptism as Test Case (vs. Methodist Philosophy professor Jerry Walls) [1-9-17]

Dialogue on Authoritative Bible Interpretation in the New Testament (vs. Reformed Baptist Elder Jim Drickamer) [1-14-17]

The Clearness, or “Perspicuity,” of Sacred Scripture [National Catholic Register, 11-16-17]

Biblical Interpretation & Clarity: Dialogue w an Atheist [5-26-18]

Is Inspiration Immediately Evident in Every Biblical Book? [National Catholic Register, 7-28-18]

Bible “Difficulties” Are No Disproof of Biblical Inspiration [National Catholic Register, 6-29-19]

“Difficulty” in Understanding the Bible: Hebrew Cultural Factors [2-5-21]

An Omniscient God and a “Clear” Bible [National Catholic Register, 2-28-21]

Did Pope Innocent III Forbid the Bible in 1199? (+ Does the Bible Itself Teach That it Should be Read Without Need of Any Authoritative Interpretation?) [5-11-21]

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V. MATERIAL AND FORMAL SUFFICIENCY OF SCRIPTURE / RULE OF FAITH
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The Sufficiency & Perspicuity of Scripture & the Trinity [6-16-03; slightly revised on 1-20-04]
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Church Fathers and Sola Scriptura [originally July 2003; somewhat modified condensation: 4-5-17]
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Martin Luther on the Exact Nature of Being “Biblical” [11-10-14; revised and expanded on 1-5-20]
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1 Timothy 3:15 = Church Infallibility (vs. Steve Hays) [5-14-20]
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VI. THE CANON OF SCRIPTURE
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Development of the Biblical Canon: Protestant Difficulties [2-26-02 and 3-19-02, abridged with slight revisions and additions on 7-19-18]
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The New Testament Canon is a “Late” Doctrine [National Catholic Register, 1-22-18]
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VII. DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS (SO-CALLED “APOCRYPHA”)
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How to Defend the Deuterocanon (or ‘Apocrypha’) [National Catholic Register, 3-12-17]
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VIII. BIBLICAL ACCURACY AND INSPIRATION / ALLEGED BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS AND DIFFICULTIES   
[see also related papers in the Atheist and Agnostic section]
 
FEATURED: Inspired!: 191 Supposed Biblical Contradictions Resolved (free online book) [6-3-23]
Master Lists and  Resources 
 
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General 
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Refutation of 194 Biblical “Contradictions” (#26-50) [4-6-22] [links to the entire eight-part series included]
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See also:
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How Ancient Authors Wrote (Jimmy Akin, 3-19-22)
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Jesus 
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The Resurrection: Hoax or History? [cartoon tract with art by Dan Grajek: 1985]
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Atheist “Refutes” Sermon on the Mount (Or Does He?) [National Catholic Register, 7-23-17]
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What Does “Turn the Other Cheek” Mean? [National Catholic Register, 7-20-19]
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The Signs Of His Coming (David Palm, 1993) [Master’s Thesis on whether Jesus thought the end times were coming during the lifetime of His hearers] 
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Gerasenes, Gadarenes, Pigs and “Contradictions” [National Catholic Register, 1-29-21]
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Miscellaneous
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Dialogue with a Skeptic of Christianity (vs. Charlie Kluepfel) [5-2-99]
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Vatican II Upheld Biblical Inerrancy (vs. David Palm) [4-23-20]
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Who Caused Job to Suffer — God or Satan? [National Catholic Register, 6-28-20]
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God in Heaven & in His Temple: Contradiction? (vs. Dr. Steven DiMattei) [11-23-20]
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Genesis, Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, & Other Early Figures
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Historicity of Adam and Eve [9-23-11; rev. 1-6-22]
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Defending the Historical Adam of Genesis (vs. Eric S. Giunta) [9-25-11]
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“Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?” (Dr. Dennis Bonnette, Crisis Magazine, 11-24-14)
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The Genesis Creation Accounts and Hebrew Time [National Catholic Register, 7-2-17]
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New Testament Evidence for Noah’s Existence [National Catholic Register, 3-11-18]
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Orthodox Interpretation of Genesis and the Serpent [National Catholic Register, 11-19-18]
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Golden Calf & Cherubim: Biblical Contradiction? (vs. Dr. Steven DiMattei) [11-23-20]
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A Bible Puzzle About the Staff of Moses and Aaron [National Catholic Register, 1-14-21]
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Bible and Science
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Scripture, Science, Genesis, & Evolutionary Theory: Mini-Dialogue with an Atheist [8-14-18; rev. 2-18-19]

The Bible and Mythical Animals[National Catholic Register, 10-9-19]

The Bible is Not “Anti-Scientific,” as Skeptics Claim[National Catholic Register, 10-23-19]

Herod Agrippa I “Eaten By Worms”: Myth or Plausible? [6-20-23]

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Massacres and Wars of Annihilation / God’s Judgment
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Last updated on 13 May 2024
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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,600+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-five books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.
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Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.
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PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation InformationThanks a million from the bottom of my heart!*
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May 25, 2023

More Evidence of Archaeology, Science, and History Backing Up the Bible

This is my  sequel or “Volume 2” to my book, The Word Set in Stone: How Archaeology, Science, and History Back Up the Bible (Catholic Answers Press: March 15, 2023, 271 pages). These articles / would-be chapters  continue the goal laid out in the Introduction of The Word Set in Stone:

I deal with specific objective matters in relation to the text of the Bible that can be addressed by archaeology or other forms of science, starting with premises (for the most part) that Christians and non-Christians accept in common. What I’m doing is “defeating the defeaters” offered up by biblical skeptics, anti-theist atheists (who specialize in and constantly focus on criticizing the Bible, Christians, Christianity), and archaeological minimalists.

If skeptics argue, for example, that a particular city wasn’t in existence when the Bible says it was, then, in response, I seek archaeological data to prove or at least offer strong evidential support for the biblical view. This approach defends the Bible’s accuracy. Skeptical arguments against biblical accuracy are often incorrect and fallacious.

This book deals with objective, historical issues that we can analyze through the means of scientific (mostly archaeological) analysis. It’s what Christians are often asked to do: give solid evidence for what we believe. [slightly modified excerpt]

We have a huge task in defending Holy Scripture in light of a rapidly growing, militant and condescending anti-theist brand of atheism and an aggressive anti-traditional secularism in general. They’re demanding (not always sincerely!) “evidence” and those who would or do believe want to see reason and science harmonized with faith, and I believe apologists can provide both things, and solidly so, in terms of arguments that can withstand scrutiny.

I’ve devoted years of my life and career to providing plausible answers to these sorts of questions. The answers theists and Christians can provide are, I believe (perhaps surprisingly), solid and strong, very exciting, faith- and confidence-building, and informative. I’ve never enjoyed apologetics more than I have in researching, engaging in dialogues, and writing about these issues. And I am learning (tons of things!), too, as I pass on what I have learned to others.

I’m not the “expert” here; I’m simply a lay Christian apologist discovering wonderful things about the Bible, archaeology, and history, and I’m thrilled and privileged to be able to share them with you: 160 sections of immersion in “Bible paradise” for those who love Holy Scripture, as I do, or those (believers or nonbelievers) who read out of curiosity and openness to being persuaded by the scientific and historical evidence presented. Enjoy! And please consider making a donation to my work if you have received benefit, “apologetics aid,” or blessing from this labor of love. “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

TABLE OF CONTENTS

I. Creation of the Universe

1) Eternal Universe vs. an Eternal God [4-16-20]

2) Philosophy & “Who Created God?” [7-12-21]

3) “God of the Gaps” [6-24-18]

4) Something Rather Than Nothing [9-3-18]

5) Creation “Ex Nihilo” [8-28-20]

6) Why a Universe at All? [11-5-21]

7) God, Empiricism, & Atheist Demands for “Evidence” [10-9-15]

8) Atheist Demands for “Empirical” Proofs of God [10-27-15]

9) Empiricism: Only Valid & Objective Knowledge? [7-18-17]

10) Science, Logic, & Math Start with Unfalsifiable Axioms [1-6-18]

11) Cause of the Big Bang: Atheist Geologist Challenged [4-21-17]

12) Argument from Design [8-25-20]

13) God the Designer? [8-27-20]

14) Albert Einstein’s “Cosmic Religion”: In His Own Words [2-17-03; greatly expanded on 8-26-10]

15) Theistic Argument from Longing or Beauty, & Einstein [3-27-08; rev. 3-14-19]

16) “Quantum Entanglement” & the “Upholding” Power of God [10-20-20]

17) Atheism: the Faith of “Atomism” [8-19-15]

18) Clarifications of “Atomism” for Offended Atheists [8-20-15]

II. Creation of the Earth, Life, and  Adam & Eve

19) Genesis Contradictory (?) Creation Accounts & Hebrew Time [5-11-17]

20) Genesis 1 vs. 2 (Creation) [5-17-20]

21) Biblical Flat Earth & Cosmology [9-11-06]

22) Flat Earth: Biblical Teaching? [9-17-06]

23) Bible Teaches a Flat Earth? [3-31-22]

24) Old Earth, Flood Geology, & Uniformitarianism [5-25-04; rev. 5-10-17]

25) Catholicism and Evolution / Charles Darwin’s Religious Beliefs [8-19-09]

26) Catholics & Origins: Irreducible Complexity or Theistic Evolution?

27) Why I Believe in “Non-Miraculous” Intelligent Design

28) “Non-Interventionist” Intelligent Design [6-21-19]

29) The Borders of Science & Theology

30) Mutations & Evolutionary Change [1-16-23]

31) Bible Espouses Mythical Animals? [9-10-19]

32) Dragons in the Bible? [3-4-22]

33) Physics Has Disproven Souls? [8-16-18]

34) Spirit-God “Magic”; 68% Dark Energy Isn’t? [2-2-21]

35) Defending the Literal, Historical Adam of the Genesis Account [9-25-11]

36) Adam & Eve of Genesis: Historical & the Primal Human Pair [11-28-13]

37) Adam & Eve & Original Sin: Disproven by Science? [9-7-15]

38) “Where Did Cain Get His Wife?” [3-7-13]

39) How Cain Found a Wife [6-22-18]

III. Noah’s Flood / Abraham & Other Patriarchs 

40) 969-Year-Old Methuselah (?) & Genesis Numbers [7-12-21]

41) Biblical Size of Noah’s Ark: Literal or Symbolic? [3-16-22]

42) Noah & 2 or 7 Pairs of Animals [9-7-20]

43) Do Carnivores on the Ark Disprove Christianity? [9-10-15]

44) Flood: 25 Criticisms & Non Sequiturs [3-8-22]

45) Straw Man Global Flood [8-30-22]

46) Noah’s Ark: Josephus, Earlier Historians, & Church Fathers (Early Witnesses of the Ark Resting on Jabel [Mt.] Judi) [3-16-22]

47) Genesis 10 “Table of Nations”: Authentic History [8-25-21]

48) Table of Nations, Interpretation, & History [11-27-21]

49) The Tower of Babel, Archaeology, & Linguistics [4-13-23]

50) Sodom & Gomorrah & Archaeology: North of the Dead Sea? [10-9-14]

51) Archaeology & a Proto-Hebrew Language in 1800 BC [1-31-23]

52) Abraham, Warring Kings of Genesis 14, & History [7-31-21]

53) Philistines, Beersheba, Bible Accuracy [3-18-22]

54) Egyptian Proof of Hebrew Slaves During Jacob’s Time [2-17-23]

55) Evidence for Hebrews / Semites in Egypt: 2000-1200 B.C. [5-3-23]

56) Biblical Hebrew Names with an Egyptian Etymology [5-9-23]

57) Pharaoh Didn’t Know Joseph?! [5-26-21]

58) 13th c. BC Canaanite Iron Chariots [7-16-21]

IV. Moses & the Exodus 

59) Did Moses Exist? No Absolute Proof, But Strong Evidence [6-14-21]

60) Moses Wrote the Torah: 50 External Evidences [12-14-22]

61) Archaeology, Ancient Hebrew, & a Written Pentateuch (+ a Plausible Scenario for Moses Gaining Knowledge of Hittite Legal Treaties in His Egyptian Official Duties) [7-31-21]

62) Does the Pentateuch Claim to be Inspired Revelation? + Do the Several Third-Person References to Moses in the Pentateuch Prove That He Didn’t Write It? [12-14-22]

63) A Pharaoh’s Death (Ex 2:23) & Exodus Chronology [7-27-22]

64) When Was the Exodus: 15th or 13th Century B.C.? [4-15-23]

65) Did the Hebrews Cross the Red Sea or the “Reed Sea”?: And Which Specific Body of Water Did They Cross, According to the Combined Deductions and Determinations of the Bible and Archaeology? [5-9-23]

66) Manna: Possibly a Natural Phenomenon? [5-5-23]

67) In Search of the Real Mt. Sinai (Fascinating Topographical and Biblical Factors Closely Examined) [8-16-21]

68) Acacia, Ark of the Covenant, & Biblical Accuracy [8-24-21]

69) The Tabernacle: Egyptian & Near Eastern Precursors [9-8-21]

70) No Philistines in Moses’ Time? [6-3-21]

71) Moses, Kadesh, Negev, Bronze Age, & Archaeology [6-10-21]

160) Moses & Water From Rocks: A Closer Look [1-7-24]

V. Joshua’s “Conquest”, Israel’s Enemies, & the Judges

72) Jericho: Did the Walls Collapse Due to Resonance? [5-1-23]

73) Joshua’s Conquest: Rapid, Always Violent, & Total? [5-1-23]

74) Hazor Battles “Contradictions”? (Including Possible Archaeological Evidence for the Battle of Deborah in Judges 4) [3-23-22]

75) “The Sun Stood Still” (Joshua) [4-16-20]

76) Arameans, Amorites, and Archaeological Accuracy [6-8-21]

77) Edomites: Archaeology Confirms the Bible (As Always) [6-10-21]

78) 12th c. BC Moabite & Ammonite Kings [7-19-21]

79) “Higher” Hapless Haranguing of Hypothetical Hittites (19th C.) [10-21-11; abridged 7-7-20]

80) Archaeology & Judges-Era Lead & Tin Trade [1-26-23]

81) Samson’s Death-Scene: Archaeological Confirmation [3-27-23]

82) Anachronistic “Israelites”? [5-25-21]

83) Jericho & Archaeology: Replies To Atheists [12-30-23]

VI. Kings Saul, David, & Solomon & Subsequent Kings of Judah & Israel

84) How Did David Kill Goliath? [5-19-20]

85) Goliath’s Height: Six Feet 9 Inches, 7 Feet 8, or 9 Feet 9? [7-4-21]

86) Ziklag (David’s Refuge from Saul) & Archaeology [3-29-23]

87) King Solomon’s “Mines” & Archaeological Evidence [3-24-23]

88) Archaeology & Solomon’s Temple-Period Ivory [1-28-23]

89) Solomon’s “Impossible” (?) Wealth & Archaeology [4-25-23]

90) Solomon’s Temple and its Archaeological Analogies (Also, Parallels to Solomon’s Palace) [4-25-23]

91) The Queen of Sheba, Solomon, & Archaeology [4-27-23]

92) Archaeology & King Rehoboam’s Wall in Lachish [1-31-23]

93) King Ahab, Queen Jezebel, & Archaeology [4-7-23]

94) King Hezekiah: Exciting New Archaeological Findings [12-13-22]

95) Archaeology & Ten (More) Kings of Judah & Israel [4-20-23]

96) Archaeology & First-Temple Period Bethlehem [4-6-23]

97) Archaeology Confirms Dates of Five Biblical Battles: Battles at Beth She’an (c. 926 BC), Beth Shemesh (c. 790 BC), Bethsaida & Kinneret (732 BC), and Lachish (701 BC) [2-6-23]

98) Assyrian King Sennacherib, the Bible, & Archaeology [4-17-23]

161) Solomon’s Rebuilding Of Gezer & Archaeology [4-24-24]

162) Hazael’s Sack of Gath (2 Kgs 12:17) & Archaeology (+ Scientific Corroboration of the Biblical Data Regarding Kiln-Baked Bricks) [4-24-24]

VII. The Prophets, Job, the Fall of Jerusalem (586 BC), and the Return to Israel

99) Prophet Elijah and Archaeology [4-13-22]

100) Prophet Elisha and Archaeology [4-4-22]

101) Was Jonah in the Belly of a Whale? Yes, But . . . [3-27-23]

102) Book of Job, Archaeology, History, & Geography [4-1-23]

103) Fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.), Archaeology, & Biblical Accuracy [4-10-23]

104) Ezra: Archaeological & Historical Corroboration [3-31-23]

105) Nehemiah: Archaeological & Historical Corroboration [3-31-23]

106) Nebuchadnezzar As A Cow: Curable Or Not? [12-31-23]

VIII. Old Testament Messianic Prophecies

107) Psalm 110: Examples of Jewish Commentators Who Regard it as Messianic / Reply to Rabbi Tovia Singer’s Charges of Christian “Tampering” with the Text [9-14-01]

108) “Fabricated” OT Messianic Prophecies? [7-1-10]

109) Isaiah 53 & “Dishonest”(?) Christians [7-2-10]

110) Isaiah 53: Ancient & Medieval Jewish Messianic Interpretation [1982; revised 9-14-01]

111) Isaiah 53: Is the “Servant” the Messiah (Jesus) or Collective Israel? [9-14-01, with incorporation of much research from 1982]

112) Discussion of Micah 5:2 (The Prophecy of Jesus’ Birth in Bethlehem) [12-19-22]

113) Messianic Prophecies (Zech 13:6, Ps 22) [7-3-10]

IX. Jesus’ Birth & Childhood 

114) Herod’s Death & Alleged “Contradictions” [7-25-17]

115) Jesus Never Existed, Huh? [8-14-18]

116) December 25th Birth of Jesus?: Interesting Considerations [12-11-17]

117) Christmas & Dec. 25th: Not Derived from Saturnalia (Nor from Sol Invictus . . .) [12-8-21]

118) 28 Defenses of Jesus’ Nativity (Featuring Confirmatory Historical Tidbits About the Magi and Herod the Great) [1-9-21]

119) Straw-Man, Mythical “Nativity” [3-2-22]

120) Jesus’ December Birth & Grazing Sheep in Bethlehem (Is a December 25th Birthdate of Jesus Impossible or Unlikely Because Sheep Can’t Take the Cold?) [12-26-20]

121) Herod’s Slaughter of the Innocents: Myth & Fiction? [2-10-21]

122) The Census, Jesus’ Birth in Bethlehem, & History [2-3-11]

123) Bethlehem Joseph / Census Issues [2-28-22]

124) Archaeology & 1st Century Nazareth [2-25-22]

125) Jesus the “Nazarene” [12-19-20]

X. Jesus’ Life & Ministry 

126) “’Bethany Beyond the Jordan’: History, Archaeology and the Location of Jesus’ Baptism on the East Side of the Jordan” [8-11-14]

127) Cana: Archaeological Comparison of “Rival” Sites [3-29-23]

128) Archaeology & St. Peter’s House in Capernaum [9-23-14]

129) Jesus’ Alleged Mustard Seed Error [10-8-18]

130) Discipleship & Jewish Burial Customs [8-8-19]

131) Gadarenes, Gerasenes, Swine, & Atheist Skeptics  [7-25-17]

132) Demons, Gadara, & Biblical Numbers [12-18-20]

133) Gadarenes & Gerasenes #3 [2-17-22]

134) NT Texts & the Next Town Over [2-18-22]

XI. Jesus’ Passion, Death, & Resurrection

135) Judas’ “Thirty Coins of Silver”: Archaeology & History [6-18-23]

136) No “Leafy Branches” on Palm Sunday? [4-19-21]

137) Archaeology: Jesus’ Crucifixion, Tomb, & the Via Dolorosa[9-18-14]

138) Date of Jesus’ Death . . . Including the Analogy of Historical Skepticism Against Many Renowned Persons from the Hebrew Bible [4-17-21]

139) Homer & the Gospels (Is the Story of Priam in the Iliad the Model for a Fictional Joseph of Arimathea?) [10-15-21]

140) Obsession w NT Imitation (?) of Homer [10-18-21]

141) Crucifixion Eclipse? [3-30-22]

142) “Blood & Water” & Medical Science [4-25-21]

143) Jesus’ Burial Spices Contradiction? [4-20-19]

144) No Tomb for Jesus? (Skeptical Fairy Tales and Fables vs. the Physical Corroborating Evidence of Archaeology in Jerusalem) [11-10-21]

145) Who Buried Jesus? [4-26-21]

146) Guards at the Tomb & Historiography [4-27-21]

147) Matthew & the Tomb Guards (Including the Analogy of Xenophon and Plato as Biographers of Socrates) [1-28-22]

XII. General Biblical Considerations

148) Why We Should Fully Expect Many “Bible Difficulties” [7-17-17]

149) “Difficulty” in Understanding the Bible: Hebrew Cultural Factors [2-5-21]

150) Atheist “Bible Science” Absurdities [9-25-18]

151) Atheist “Bible Science” Inanities, Pt. 2 [10-2-18]

152) Bible & Disease & Medicine (3-31-22)

153) Demonic Possession or Epilepsy? (Bible & Science) [2015]

154) Disease, Jesus, Paul, Miracles, & Demons [1-13-20]

155) Are the Gospels & Acts “Propaganda”? (Unpacking a Statement from Historian A. N. Sherwin-White) [2-16-22]

156) NT Writers: Unethical Mythmakers? [5-4-21]

157) Manuscript Evidence: New Testament vs. Plato, Etc. [10-10-15]

158) Ten New Testament Archaeological Confirmations [5-11-23]

159) Atheist Double Standards Regarding the Miraculous in Historical Accounts [Facebook, 1-1-24]

Additional Sections Added Later

#160: in section IV

#161-162: in section VI

***

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Summary: A sequel for my book, The Word Set in Stone is not in the cards, but (good news!), folks can read for free the material that would have made up the second volume.

Latest Update: 24 April 2024

May 17, 2022

Primarily Concerning the Papacy

Cameron Bertuzzi is a professional photographer and founder of Capturing Christianity, a ministry aimed at exposing the intellectual side of Christian belief. It began as a result of his brother becoming an atheist. He is a writer, speaker, and uses his ministry to host discussions and interviews on Christian Apologetics. His very popular YouTube channel with the same name has 127,000 subscribers. He wrote about his purpose:

I want to awaken American evangelicals to the fact that Christianity is among the most intellectually defensible world views out there. But also, it doesn’t take a degree in Astrophysics or Theology to engage in intelligent discussion. I am convinced that anyone with an open mind and willing heart, including a photographer like myself, can learn to engage in discussion and give a reasoned defense of the hope that is within them (1 Peter 3:15). . . .

My passion is to empower the Christian church with reasons for the truth of Christianity. I want to answer objections and help break down tough material into bite size pieces.

***

This is a reply to Cameron’s discussion with Reformed Baptist apologist (and virulent anti-Catholic) James White, entitled, “Cameron Bertuzzi & James White Discuss Catholicism” (5-10-22). At the time of this writing, a week later, it already has garnered 1,908 comments in the combox. James White’s words will be in blue; Cameron’s in green.

I’ve dealt with James White’s arguments against Catholicism for 27 years; my first encounter being a lengthy debate by regular mail in March-May 1995 (he departed from that exchange, leaving my final 36-page reply completely unanswered). My blog includes an extensive web page about him, and I’ve written the book, Debating James White: Shocking Failures of the “Undefeatable” Anti-Catholic Champion (Nov. 2013, 395 pages).

White stated that charismatics don’t have much of a sense of Church history. This is too often true (though it could be said in a very general way of Protestants as a group), but this is an excessive broad-brushing of an entire group. I attended Assemblies of God and non-denominational charismatic groups in the 1980s and I had no such animus against Church history. In fact, my love of it that I obtained while in those circles led me to Catholicism in 1990. White said that “fundamentalists” trace their history back to Billy Graham. Actually, many fundamentalists despise Billy Graham as a flaming liberal. Graham was in the forefront of post-World War II evangelicalism, which was a reaction against the ahistoricism and anti-intellectualism of fundamentalism.

White — soon after in the video — admits that he didn’t know much Church history, even as the son of a Baptist pastor, until he went to seminary. So this actually proves my point about widespread Protestant ignorance of Church history; and he basically refuted his own point, by his own example. He states about learning Church history in seminary: “Most Protestants have no earthly idea, where in the world they’re coming from, and hence, are not Protestants of conviction.” [8:23-31] Thanks for proving my point, James! And I hasten to add that this is absolutely true of most Catholics as well. White does apologetics to rectify this ignorance; so do I.

Cameron mentioned that he knew nothing about St. Augustine during his charismatic background. I proved in 2003 that according to James White’s antipathy to sacramentalism and his own voluminous words, Augustine and even Martin Luther couldn’t possibly be considered Christians. So if we are to talk about Christian ahistoricism, White is actually a poster boy for that view.

Interestingly, White said that he got started in apologetics by interacting with Mormons in 1982. I got my start by studying and interacting with Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1981 (the result of all that research is on my blog today). And that was by working with a charismatic person (from the Assemblies of God) who had begun a “cult ministry” (much like James White’s initial apologetics foray).

White almost chides Cameron for being ignorant as to John 6 and eucharistic theology (referring to Cameron’s chat with Matt Fradd on that topic). Readers might be interested in my response to White as regards the Holy Eucharist: Vs. James White #5: Real Eucharistic Presence or Symbolism? [9-20-19]

Though I don’t care for the slightly condescending way in which White criticizes Cameron for being unprepared to tackle Catholics in his shows, he does make a quite valid overall point. One must be prepared and properly educated in order to undertake such discussions and debates. I had been doing Christian apologetics for sixteen years and Catholic apologetics for six before I ever had a website: begun in 1997.

I had had published articles in Catholic magazines since 1993, my conversion story in the bestselling book, Surprised by Truth (1994), and had completed my first book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism, with a Foreword by Servant of God Fr. John A. Hardon, SJ, a major figure in Catholic catechetics, and adviser to Pope St. Paul VI and St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta. I studied with him for a few years, and he expressly endorsed my book. I, too, have been accused many times by anti-Catholic polemicists, of being a “self-appointed” apologist, etc., but it is not the case at all, as I have just shown.

White mentions the usefulness of reading “classic Protestant works, such as Goode, Whitaker, Salmon . . .” [14:38-14:47].

It’s funny that he cited those particular authors. Goode and Whitaker were Anglicans who defended sola Scriptura. I wrote an entire book refuting their claims: Pillars of Sola Scriptura: Replies to Whitaker, Goode, & Biblical “Proofs” for “Bible Alone” (July 2012, 310 pages). Neither White nor any other anti-Catholic apologist / polemicist ever interacted with that. White will complain that Catholics are unfamiliar with the best Protestant historic apologists, yet ignore it when one of us makes a book-length response.

As for George Salmon, I had read his book, The Infallibility of the Church, when I was considering becoming a Catholic. I thought it was great, until I encountered St. John Henry Cardinal Newman, who demolished arguments like Salmon’s in his famous 1845 work, Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine. Salmon has also been thoroughly (and directly) rebutted by B.C. (Basil Christopher) Butler, in a book-length treatment in 1954, which is available online. Before that, a series of articles in the Irish Ecclesiastical Record in 1901 (over 50 pages and available online) also took Salmon’s book apart.

So I agree with White: read the best historic Protestant arguments. But don’t stop there! Read the best Catholic responses you can find, too. If you are really interested in the full truth and hearing both sides of an argument before you make up your mind, read both sides and then decide. Anyone can make an ostensibly “good case” if they don’t interact with opposing views. I have provided (above) opposing treatments of the anti-Catholic sources that James White considers the best. Most are free, online, and my book can be purchased as an e-book for as little as $2.99 (I do do this for a living, as a professional apologist, after all, and have to pay my bills).

White also mentions Lutheran Martin Chemnitz as a classic source. I have dealt with errors in his arguments against the Council of Trent and Catholicism many times. I think Chemnitz is a fellow Christian. But White, because of his bizarre antipathy to all sacraments, cannot consistently do so. And the same would apply to Whitaker and Goode and Salmon (all Anglicans). So White appeals to all these men as the best historic defenders of Protestant Christianity, while his own views  would classify them as not being Christians at all. Pretty weird, huh? He wants to have his cake and eat it, too.

Cameron mentions that he has heard replies to Catholic arguments from Gavin Ortlund, a Baptist pastor who also runs a YouTube channel. I have made several replies to his videos as well.

White starts going after the infallible papacy. I’ve written about all these topics he brings up. I’ll just refer readers to my extensive web page about the Papacy, and particularly, my article, 50 New Testament Proofs for Petrine Primacy & the Papacy [1994]. The entire chapter about the papacy from my first book is also available online.

White objects to Catholics anathematizing other views. He’s a Calvinist. I guess he is unfamiliar with (or chooses to ignore, as “bad PR”) the similar language in the Synod of Dort in 1618-1619, which placed Arminian Protestants outside of the fold. If one reads the canons of this synod, they repeatedly state what they believe is “orthodox” teaching and then summarily reject anything that contradicts it. How this is one whit different from Trent or Vatican I or Vatican II, perhaps James White can explain. But he never does. All Christians believe certain things, and in doing so, preclude other opinions that contradict what they believe. To act as if only Catholics do this is silly and historically naive and ignorant.

As a result of the Synod of Dort, non-Calvinist Christians (Arminians) were ordered to desist from the ministry, categorized as “disturbers of the public peace” and forced to leave the Netherlands. Johan van Oldenbarnevelt, one of the Arminian “Remonstrants”, was accused of “general perturbation in the state of the nation, both in Church and State” (treason), and was beheaded on 13 May 1619: just four days after the final meeting of the Synod. The jurist Hugo Grotius was given a life sentence in prison. These sorts of tactics followed the old template of the Lutheran and Reformed / Calvinist persecution of Anabaptists to the death. It was nothing new in Protestantism, which had a sordid record of intolerance and persecution from the beginning.

White seems to make out that no one can disagree with the pope about anything. Of course this is nonsense. He ought to be generally followed, but technically, one is free to disagree with any non-infallible utterance that any pope makes (which are actually quite a bit of the entirety of papal statements). In practice, this works out as little different than what White would believe about John Calvin. He will accept most of what he writes, but maybe disagree with some of it, too. But Protestants have their creeds and confessions just as Catholics do.

I just don’t think that the papacy entails Catholicism. [22:18-23]

This is an odd line of reasoning. But at least Cameron is not utterly hostile to the notion and possibility of a papacy.

Cameron says that the three elements of the papacy are “succession, infallibility, and supremacy” [23:21-25]. He says that if those elements are present, so is the papacy, but not necessarily Catholicism.

I think that if the papacy is true, then we do have some really good reason to think that Catholicism would be true. [23:43-51]

You realize that once you become a Roman Catholic, you don’t get to define these things; Rome does, right? . . . The dogmatic writings of the Church define what the papacy is . . . [24:06-23]

Again, Calvinists operate under the same sort of dogmatic authority, in only a slightly lesser degree, as we saw in the canons of Dort. Protestants, and particularly Calvinists, have many confessions that they are bound by. So, in effect, they don’t get to decide what they believe, either. They “sign onto” a Reformed / Calvinist affiliation and outlook and in so doing, are not at liberty to question the historic creeds that established dogmas such as the Calvinist “TULIP”: having to do with predestination. They either accept them or they aren’t considered good Calvinists (or good Christians).

No one [i.e., Catholics] wants to talk about [Pope] Francis. [26:53-56]

Really? Funny, then, that I myself have written 215 defenses of his orthodoxy, and have collected similar efforts in 289 additional articles. White implied that Jimmy Akin is reluctant to do so. This is untrue. My collection of 289 articles contains no less than fifty from Jimmy Akin. So just between Akin and myself (both full-time Catholic apologists), one can choose from 265 articles defending Pope Francis from bum raps and false accusations.

White is absolutely right that Catholics, by definition, are bound to accept as true, infallible dogmatic declarations of popes or ecumenical councils in conjunction with popes, or what the Catechism teaches, as a “sure norm.” One can’t pick and choose what they like and don’t like. That’s not how it works. If someone wants to pick and choose and select a denomination of their liking, that best fits in with their existing beliefs, then that is pure Protestantism, not Catholicism. Protestantism institutionalized theological relativism and ecclesiological, sectarian chaos.

White mentions a 2007 article and webcast of his, “Top Ten Questions for Romanist Converts” (link). I thoroughly answered these questions in my article, James White’s Top Ten Questions for “Romanist” Converts Answered [9-4-07]. As usual, he completely ignored that, as he does all of my refutations of his claims. He used to make limited answers, but has never engaged in a sustained, serious, substantive dialogue, since our first encounter in 1995. He basically takes shots and engages in ad hominem insults.

There was no monarchical episcopate in Rome until about 140 AD. [34:31-37]

We have incomplete data about a lot of things for that early period. For example, if we consider the canon of the New Testament, in the period up to 140, the Book of Acts was scarcely known or quoted. Quotations from the apostle Paul were rarely introduced as scriptural. The books of Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1, 2, and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation were not considered to be part of the canon, and most of these books weren’t accepted by consensus as biblical until the end of the 4th century. In the period of 160-250, the Shepherd of Hermas was considered part of the New Testament by Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, and Clement of Alexandria. Even in the early 5th century, 1 Clement and 2 Clement  were included in the biblical manuscript: Codex Alexandrinus.

Is this information just my own “amateur” opinion, or gathered from Catholic apologists or official Catholic Church sources? No. It all came from solid Protestant scholarly reference works:

1) J. D. Douglas, editor, New Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1962 edition, 194-198.

2) F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, editors, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd edition, 1983, 232, 300, 309-10, 626, 641, 724, 1049, 1069.

3) Norman L. Geisler & William E. Nix, From God to Us: How We Got Our Bible, Chicago: Moody Press, 1974, 109-12, 117-125.

If there was all this uncertainty about the Bible itself, why is it considered an issue that the papacy was nowhere near fully developed in 140 AD? It’s a non-issue. What we do definitely have are plenty of biblical indications of the papacy in how Peter is presented. We also have an infallible Church, as clearly seen in the Jerusalem Council (that I’ve written about many times), and in 1 Timothy 3:15, which is plain as day. And we have Clement of Rome acting very much like a “monarchical bishop” in writing to the Corinthians before 100 AD. Thus, White’s casual claim is not at all a “gotcha” polemical knockout punch, as he thinks.

White condemns “cheap debating tricks.” How comically ironic. I did an analysis of a whole range of such “tricks” and sophistry that he employed in our short live chat about Mariology in December 2000 in his own chat room (which — no surprise — he also departed early).

White fails to understand that exceptions among the Church fathers is not a disproof of the Catholic system, since no Church father is considered infallible in all that he teaches; nor is a Church father part of the magisterium, unless he was a bishop voting in an ecumenical council in agreement with the pope.

So Cyprian disagreeing with some aspects of the papacy (as White brought up) does not mean that Catholics are “requir[ed]” to “remove Cyprian from the Catholic Church” [36:09-18], anymore than we supposedly have to remove Augustine because some of his erroneous views on predestination of the damned, or St. Thomas Aquinas, because he was wrong on Mary’s Immaculate Conception. White is ignorant of the Catholic system when he makes such absurd claims. What he also fails to understand is Catholic language regarding the “unanimous consent” of Church fathers. That term (in Latin) did not mean “absolutely everyone, with no exceptions.” It meant “substantial consensus or majority.” See a further treatment of that question.

White claims that “the papal authority is saying . . . he is infallible in all of his teachings.” [43:01-11]

This is wrong on two counts. It wasn’t “papal authority” unilaterally proclaiming this dogma. It was an ecumenical council (Vatican I in 1870). The pope agreed with it, but he didn’t make the declaration himself, as White falsely claimed. Secondly, the dogmatic de fide declaration in 1870 (Pastor aeternus) didn’t state the pope was always infallible. It stated that he was in particular circumstances:

[W]e teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable. (end portion)

Cameron seemed to know that White was making an exaggerated, inaccurate claim, and asked “does it actually say that in Vatican I?” White then started reading from Pastor aeternus. He read a bunch of stuff from that and Vatican II but never noted the limitations of papal infallibility. Therefore, it’s an inaccurate presentation. White was either deliberately lying or ignorant. I choose in charity to believe the latter. But he was demonstrably wrong, in any event.

White indulges in the obligatory bashing of Popes Honorious and Liberius. There is another side to those stories and “problems” too. See:

Dialogue on (Supposedly Fallible) Pope Honorius [1997]

Honorius: Disproof of Papal Infallibility? [2007]

The Supposed Fall of Honorius and His Condemnation (J. H. R., American Catholic Quarterly Review, vol. 7, 1882, pp. 162-168)
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The Condemnation of Pope Honorius (Dom John Chapman, O.S.B., London: Catholic Truth Society, 1907)
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Pope Honorius I (Catholic Encyclopedia [Dom John Chapman])
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The Alleged Fall of Pope Liberius (P. J. Harrold, American Catholic Quarterly Review, vol. 8, 1883, 529-549)
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Pope Liberius (Catholic Encyclopedia [Dom John Chapman])
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Pope Vigilius is another “whipping boy” of anti-papal rhetoric, See:
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Pope Vigilius (Catholic Encyclopedia)
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The Sixth Nicene Canon and the Papacy (James F. Loughlin, American Catholic Quarterly Review, vol. 5, 1880, 220-239)
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White brings up the 6th Nicene Canon in the video. I’ve also responded to White twice with regard to the Council of Nicaea:
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White makes the point that the live debates he was doing in the 1990s required a lot of preparation. I make the further point that written debate is far more in-depth than oral debate.
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White said that he prepared for “six months” to debate atheist Bart Ehrman. That is impressive, and good for him!
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White brings up Cardinal Newman. I’m familiar with his rhetoric here as well, and wrote about it in 2011 (including analysis of George Salmon): John Henry Newman on Papal Infallibility Prior to 1870 (Classic Anti-Catholic Lies: George Salmon, James White, David T. King et al) [8-11-11].
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White urges Cameron to watch his debate with Fr. Peter Stravinskas on purgatory. I refuted White on this issue, but of course he always ignores me: Purgatory: Refutation of James White (1 Corinthians 3:10-15) [3-3-07].
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White brings up soteriological issues near the end (regarding salvation and justification). I have responded to him eleven times regarding these matters (see the “Soteriology / Salvation . . .” section of my James White web page for those). But as for Catholics and the assurance of salvation, one must understand the notion of “moral assurance of salvation”. I contend that Protestants in fact have no more assurance of final salvation than Catholics do. They claim that they do. But a claim is not the same as an actuality. I’ve replied to White specifically in this regard: Vs. James White #4: Eternal Security of Believers? [9-19-19]
*

White asks if Cameron was familiar with Luther’s “dunghill” analogy to imputed justification. The problem is that it seems that Luther never  wrote a thing.  If White can verify this in the sources, I’d love to see it. But as I said, he always ignores me. Maybe someone else reading this can send me the reference. I wrote about this fascinating topic twice:

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Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

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Summary: Baptist anti-Catholic apologist James White and YouTube channel host Cameron Bertuzzi have a discussion about “Cameron Bertuzzi & Catholicism”. I reply.
April 13, 2022

This exchange took place in the combox of my article, Jesus’ Last Words: Biblical “Contradictions”? (4-8-21). Words of JohnMC (atheist?) will be in blue.

*****

I think it is right to point out that it is not unreasonable to expect texts regarded as holy and revealed to show consistency. Even minor inconsistencies invite scepticism because of the rigorous claims made for the significance of the texts.

I fully agree, which is why I have largely devoted my writing and research over the last two-three years to answering precisely these objections (as well as establishing a positive support of Scripture from archaeology, which will be the subject of my next “officially published” book). A full listing of those efforts can be found in my collection, “Armstrong’s Refutations of Alleged Biblical ‘Contradictions'”.

These efforts include scores and scores of systematic replies to atheists who specialize in trying to attack the Bible and its alleged massive self-contradictions. Some never reply to my counter-replies to their claims (Bob Seidensticker, Dr. David Madison, John Loftus, Bart Ehrman, Richard Carrier, and more). Others do occasionally (and kudos to them for doing so), but (frankly) not very well when they do (Jonathan M.S. Pearce).

Let me ask you (since you ask me so many questions): if these atheists’ arguments are so compelling, why don’ they prove it and blow my counter-replies out of the water? But they don’t. They prefer to almost always ignore them. They say it’s because I am an ignoramus, imbecile, and idiot (always easy to say). I say it is because they have a lousy case and are intellectual cowards.

I hope that this dealing with “contradictions” will be the topic of my next book (if a publisher wants it), after my next on archaeology is published.

The application of standard reasoning and principles of reliability to historical documents are fine by me

Yeah, me too.

but they are being applied to documents that are claimed to have divine sanction.

We apply reason and intelligence to biblical interpretation, just as we do to any other topic or extensive set of writings like the Bible. That’s what apologetics (my field) is about: applying reason to theology.

Why do we even need to apply human reasoning to their comprehension, and why might a simple claimed error of interpretation lead anyone into misconstruing divine writ?

Because we have to reason in order to properly understand theological documents that are all are 1920 or more years old, written in different languages (including hundreds of non-literal idioms and metaphors, etc.), and produced by a vastly different culture from our present one. That’s not even arguable. It’s self-evident.

The problem with the routine lists of atheist or skeptics’ “contradictions” is that they are so terribly weak, pathetic, and 90% of the time (or more!) clearly not even contradictions in the first place. It’s not so much that the Bible is difficult to understand (although parts of it certainly are: particularly portions of Paul’s letters), but that the skeptics who approach the Bible like a butcher approaches a hog are so 1) abominably ignorant of the Bible’s contents and interpretation, and 2) seem to have never familiarized themselves with classical logic or a textbook of logic. [in case you are wondering, I did take logic in college]

Some inconsistencies may not be contradictions but represent ambivalences that cannot be batted away.

Well, then, since all these big shot / big name atheists almost always ignore my replies, perhaps you will show the courage of your convictions and take up some of them? We agree on the premises (that it’s worthwhile to have those discussions). You seem to be capable. Have at it! I gave you the list of all my defenses.

You see how I have replied to you here, as I always do if an inquiry has substance. You didn’t immediately insult my honesty, as C Nault did [“Your response is the standard playing with what the Bible actually says and twisting it to suit your personal interpretation”: in the same combox]. So I responded quite differently and at length.

Then there are the fully-fledged contradictions and ambiguities and obscurenesses. And then we see the self-referential legitimating arguments. A biblical statement of belief for example the Trinity does [not] become true because it is repeated.

Of course not (just like anything else). The Trinity comes from revelation and cannot be understood from a logic-alone / rationalistic perspective. It is an exceedingly subtle doctrine and requires faith. No Christian has ever denied that. What I focus on is to prove that the Bible teaches it in the first place (many atheists deny this), and why Christians believe that the Bible does so.

Evidence of consistency of belief is not evidence of truth of belief.

Strictly speaking, no. It’s evidence of a lack of contradictoriness, which is the bare minimum. But a consistent showing from the Bible that alleged contradictions are in fact not so (which I have done myself, and many other apologists have done), does, by a cumulative effect, tend to support the notion of biblical inspiration. Consistency doesn’t prove biblical inspiration (which is also a matter of faith), but it’s consistent with it; whereas massive contradictions actually proven are inconsistent with inspiration.

The latter is why I think it is important to deal with these sorts of charges, because it’s important to defend inspiration (indirectly) from reason. We need to “defeat the defeaters” and show how very weak they are.

Few things bolster my Christian faith more than dealing with the alleged “contradictions”: because the arguments are so abominable and laughable that we see the Christian faith as far more rational and sensible. Observing (while I am making my own arguments) the Bible being able to withstand all attacks is incredibly, joyfully faith-boosting. It’s the unique blessing we apologists receive for our efforts.

Statements of miraculous happenings are not proved because there are a lot of them. If extravagant claims are made for the absolute value of scripture, why is it so easy wonder if the texts do not actually just display the predictable raggedness of human ones?

I say they can withstand all the accusations thrown out them, and prove it by my own work. If you disagree, as I said, start sending me counter-counter-replies to my counter-replies, since virtually all of the folks I have replied to refuse to do so (most with rank insults sent my way, too).

Thanks for the serious, non-insulting interaction and have a great day.

[if JohnMC replies, I will add his words to this paper with my further replies]

***

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Photo credit: Fotografie-Link [public domain / PxHere.com]

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Summary: Good discussion about the nature of alleged Bible “contradictions” in which I explain the rationale for my recently devoting so much time and energy to solving them.

 

June 11, 2016

Master List of Christian Internet Resources for Apologists (Links)

BibleAntique
(Compiled on 7-19-10; links checked and updated on 9-6-20)
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Websites
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A Christian Thinktank (Glenn Miller; probably the single best resource; very in-depth)

Tekton Education and Apologetics Ministry (J. P. Holding)

Old Testament Issues (J. P. Holding)

The Reliability of the New Testament (J. P. Holding)

Book Recommendations (J. P. Holding)

C. Dennis McKinsey’s Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy: Critique and Answer Key (J. P. Holding)

Contradicting Bible Contradictions (Ben van Noort)

Bible Difficulties and Bible Contradictions (Matt Slick)

Bible Query (Christian Debater website; includes easy links to answers regarding each biblical book)

Errors and Contradictions in the Bible? (part of the Answering Islam website)

192 Alleged “Contradictions” in the Bible (+ Part Two / Part Three) (Unam Sanctam Catholicam [Catholic] )

Defending the Gospels: Answers to [38] Problems in Reply to “Shredding the Gospels” by Diogenes the Cynic (John McClymont)

Apologetics Press: Alleged Discrepancies (mostly by Eric Lyons)

Resolved Biblical Contradictions (Rational Christianity site)

Dealing With Apparent Contradictions in Scripture (John Kitchen; PDF)

Responses to various alleged contradictions in the Gospel of John (Sam Shamoun)

Why do all four Gospels contain different versions of the inscription on the Cross? (Russell M. Grigg)

A Suggested Harmonization of the Resurrection Narratives (Murray J. Harris)

The Resurrection of Jesus: A harmony of the resurrection accounts (Answering Islam website)

The Problem of Apparent Chronological Contradictions in the Synoptics (Joe Botti, Tom Dixon, and Alex Steinman)

Bible Difficulties (Come Reason Ministries)

What about the Jesus Seminar? (Answering Islam site)

Replies to Various Controversial Issues Regarding the Bible
(Answering Islam site)

The Myth of “Factual” Bible Contradictions (Eric Lyons)

Are There Contradictions in Genesis 1 and 2? (Kenneth J. Howell; This Rock, January 2004 [Catholic] )

Contradictions in Scripture? (Brian W. Harrison [Catholic] )

Skeptic’s Instructions for Reading the Bible:

  • Always read it completely literally in isolation and never take into account the social, historical, literary and cultural context in which it was written.
  • Have a wrong concept of how God should have done things and then throw the rattle out of the pram when he does things differently – this is otherwise known as setting up a straw man and then knocking him down.
  • Assume that God dictated it rather than using men in the social, historical and cultural context of the day.
  • If there is a difficult passage never consult a commentary written by someone who understands the social, historical, literary and cultural context.
  • Never compare scripture with scripture to find the meaning of difficult texts
  • Never use different Bible versions, never check out the Greek or Hebrew.
  • Always assume that if you cannot understand something then it cannot ever be true.
  • Ignore the fact of progressive revelation.
  • Never try to understand difficult doctrines like the Holy Trinity, and never consult a theologian who can better explain these things.

[from Ross A. Taylor’s Bible Difficulties: Resources to Refute the Skeptics and Critics; last item modified a bit presently]

Norman L. Geisler, in his book, When Critics Ask: A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties (Baker Books: 1992), made a similar list about the mistakes that atheists make when approaching the Bible and attempting to interpret it (hat tip to Ross Taylor’s site above):

1. Assuming that the unexplained is not explainable.
2. Presuming the Bible guilty until proven innocent.
3. Confusing our fallible interpretations with God’s infallible revelation.
4. Failing to understand the context of the passage.
5. Neglecting to interpret difficult passages in the light of clear ones.
6. Basing a teaching on an obscure passage.
7. Forgetting that the Bible is a human book with human characteristics.
8. Assuming that a partial report is a false report.
9. Demanding that NT citations of the OT always be exact quotations.
10. Assuming that divergent accounts are false ones.
11. Presuming that the Bible approves of all its records.
12. Forgetting that the Bible uses non-technical, everyday language.
13. Assuming that round numbers are false.
14. Neglecting to note that the bible uses different literary devices.
15. Forgetting that only the original text, not every copy of scripture, is without error.
16. Confusing general statements with universal ones.
17. Forgetting that latter revelation supersedes previous revelation.

Books
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BIBLE DIFFICULTIES, “HARD SAYINGS”, AND ALLEGED “CONTRADICTIONS”

Gleason L. Archer, Jr., Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (Zondervan: 1982) [read online for free: PDF format]

Gleason L. Archer, Jr., New International Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (Zondervan: 2001)

William Arndt, Bible Difficulties: An Examination Of Passages Of The Bible Alleged To Be Irreconcilable With Its Inspiration (Kessinger Pub.: 2008)

William Arndt, Does the Bible Contradict Itself?: A Discussion of Alleged Contradictions in the Bible (Concordia Pub. House: 5th ed., 1976)

William Arndt, Robert G. Hoerber, & Walther R. Roehrs, Bible Difficulties and Seeming Contradictions (Concordia Pub. House: 1987)

Manfred T. Brauch, Hard Sayings of Paul (IVP: 1989)

F. F. Bruce, Hard Sayings of Jesus (IVP: 1983)

Phillip Campbell, The Book of Non-Contradiction: Harmonizing the Scriptures (Grass Lake, Michigan: Cruachan Hill Press: 2017)

Paul Copan, Is God a Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God (Baker: 2011)

Carey L. Daniel, The Bible’s Seeming Contradictions: 101 Paradoxes Harmonized (Zondervan, 1941)

M. R DeHaan, 508 Answers to Bible Questions: With Answers to Seeming Bible Contradictions (Zondervan: 1952)

Daniel Worcester Faunce, A Young Man’s Difficulties With His Bible (American Baptist Pub. Soc.: 1898) [read online for free at Internet Archive: link one / link two]

Daniel Worcester Faunce, The Mature Man’s Difficulties With His Bible (American Baptist Pub. Soc.: 1908) [read online for free at Internet Archive]

Norman L. Geisler, When Critics Ask: A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties (Baker Books: 1992)

Norman L. Geisler & Thomas Howe, Big Book of Bible Difficulties: The Clear and Concise Answers from Genesis to Revelation (Baker Books: 2008)

John Haley, Alleged Discrepancies Of The Bible (Whitaker House: 2004; originally 1874) [read online for free at Internet Archive; links to choose from: one / two / three / four]

James Augustus Hessey, Moral Difficulties Connected With the Bible (SPCK: 1871) [read online for free at Internet Archive]

A. F. W. Ingram, New Testament Difficulties (SPCK: 1903) [read online for free at Internet Archive]

Timothy Paul Jones, Misquoting Truth: A Guide to the Fallacies of Bart Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus (IVP: 2007)

Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., editor, Hard Sayings of the Bible (IVP: 1996)

D. James Kennedy, Solving Bible Mysteries: Unraveling the Perplexing and Troubling Passages of Scripture (Thomas Nelson: 2000)

J. Carl Laney, Answers to Tough Questions: A Survey of Problem Passages and Issues (Kregel: 1997)

Robert Stuart MacArthur, Bible Difficulties and Their Alleviative Interpretation: Old Testament (E. B. Treat: 1899) [read online for free at Internet Archive]

H. L. Mitchell, One Hundred And Seventy-Seven Alleged Bible Contradictions And Discrepancies: A Book For Thinking Christians And Honest Skeptics (Kessinger Pub.: 2007)

David E. O’Brien, Today’s Handbook for Solving Bible Difficulties (Bethany House: 1990)

William L. Pettingill & R. A. Torrey, 1001 Bible Questions Answered (Thomas Nelson: 2001)

Ron Rhodes, The Complete Book of Bible Answers (Harvest House: 1997)

Ron Rhodes, Commonly Misunderstood Bible Verses: Clear Explanations for the Difficult Passages (Harvest House: 2008)

Larry Richards, 735 Baffling Bible Questions Answered (Revell: 1997)

Thomas Spalding, Scripture Difficulties Explained by Scripture References, or, The Bible its Own Interpreter (Daldy, Isbister: 1877) [read online for free at Internet Archive]

Robert H. Stein, Interpreting Puzzling Texts in the New Testament (Baker: 1997)

Robert H. Stein, Difficult Sayings in the Gospels: Jesus’ Use of Overstatement and Hyperbole (Baker: 1986)

John Thein [Catholic], The Bible and Rationalism; or, Answer to Difficulties (Kessinger: one-volume ed.: 2010) [read free online versions at Internet Archive: volumes one / two / three / four]

R. A. Torrey, Difficulties and Alleged Errors and Contradictions in the Bible (Baker Book House: 1964) [read a free online version at Internet Archive]

Robert Tuck, editor, A Handbook of Biblical Difficulties; or, Reasonable Solutions of Perplexing Things in Sacred Scripture (T. Whittaker: 1887) [read online for free at Internet Archive]

Robert Tuck, A Handbook of Scientific and Literary Bible Difficulties (T. Whittaker: 1891) [read free online version at Internet Archive]

Richard Whately, Essays on Some of the difficulties in the Writings of the Apostle Paul, and in Other Parts of the New Testament (Draper: 1865) [read free online version at Internet Archive]


BIBLICAL LITERARY FORMS / BIBLE INTERPRETATION

G. K. Beale , editor, The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts?: Essays on the Use of the Old Testament in the New (Baker: 1994)

G. K. Beale & D. A. Carson, editors, Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (Baker: 2007)

Sandy D. Brent, Cracking Old Testament Codes: A Guide to Interpreting the Literary Genres of the Old Testament (B&H; Academic, 1999)

E. W. Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible: Explained and Illustrated (Baker Books: 2003)

D. A. Carson, Exegetical Fallacies (Baker: 2nd ed., 1996)

Jeanie C. Crain, Reading the Bible as Literature (Polity: 2010)

David A. Dorsey, Literary Structure of the Old Testament, A Commentary on Genesis-Malachi (Baker: 2004)

Gordon D. Fee & Douglas Stuart, How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth (Zondervan: 2nd ed.: 1993)

R. T. France, Jesus and the Old Testament (Regent College Pub.: 1992)

Marshall D. Johnson, Making Sense of the Bible: Literary Type As an Approach to Understanding (Eerdmans: 2002)

John R. Maier & Vincent L. Tollers, The Bible in its Literary Milieu: Contemporary Essays (Eerdmans: 1979)

Leland Ryken, How to Read the Bible as Literature (Zondervan, 1985)

Leland Ryken & Tremper Longman III, editors, A Complete Literary Guide to the Bible (Zondervan: 1993)

Robert H. Stein, Basic Guide to Interpreting the Bible: Playing by the Rules (Baker: 1997)

Douglas Stuart, Old Testament Exegesis: A Handbook for Students and Pastors (Westminster John Know Pr: 2009)

John H. Walton, Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible (Baker: 2006)


ANCIENT NEAR EASTERN CULTURE AND THE BIBLE / BIBLICAL ANTHROPOLOGY

Cyrus H. Gordon & Gary A. Rendsburg, The Bible and the Ancient Near East (W. W. Norton & Co.: rev. ed.: 1998)

G. Herbert Livingston, The Pentateuch and Its Cultural Environment (Baker: 1987)

Bruce J. Malina & John J. Pilch, Social-Science Commentary on the Letters of Paul (Fortress Press: 2006)

Bruce J. Malina & Richard L Rohrbaugh, Social-Science Commentary on the Synoptic Gospels (Fortress Press: 2nd ed.: 2002)

Bruce J. Malina & Richard L Rohrbaugh, Social-Science Commentary on the Gospel of John (Augsburg Fortress Pub.: 1998)

Bruce J. Malina & John J. Pilch, Social-Science Commentary on the Book of Acts (Fortress Press: 2008)

Bruce J. Malina, The New Testament World: Insights from Cultural Anthropology (Westminster John Knox Press, 3rd ed.: 2001)

John J. Pilch, The Cultural Dictionary of the Bible (Liturgical Press: 1999)

John J. Pilch, Introducing the Cultural Context of the Old Testament (Wipf & Stock: 2007)

John J. Pilch, Introducing the Cultural Context of the New Testament (Wipf & Stock: 2007)

John J. Pilch & Bruce J. Malina, editors, Handbook of Biblical Social Values (Hendrickson Pub., rev. ed.: 1998)

John H. Walton, Ancient Israelite Literature in Its Cultural Context (Zondervan: 1994)

Edwin M. Yamauchi, Gerald L. Mattingly, & Alfred J. Hoerth, editors, Peoples of the Old Testament World (Baker: 1998)


RELIABILITY AND HISTORICAL ACCURACY OF THE BIBLE

Paul Barnett, Is the New Testament Reliable?: A Look at the Historical Evidence (IVP: 1993)

Richard J. Bauckham, editor, The Book of Acts in Its First Century; Vol. 4: Palestinian Setting (Eerdmans: 1995)

Craig L. Blomberg, The Historical Reliability of the Gospels (IVP: 2nd ed.: 2008)

Craig L. Blomberg, The Historical Reliability of John’s Gospel: Issues & Commentary (IVP: 1998)

F. F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? (Wilder Pub.: 2009)

F. F. Bruce, New Testament History (Doubleday: 1993)

R. T. France & David Wenham, editors, Gospel Perspectives, Volume 1: Studies of History and Tradition in the Four Gospels (Wipf & Stock Pub.: 2003)

R. T. France & David Wenham, editors, Gospel Perspectives, Volume 2: Studies of History and Tradition in the Four Gospels (Wipf & Stock Pub.: 2003)

R. T. France & David Wenham, editors, Gospel Perspectives, Volume 3: Studies in Midrash and Historiography (Wipf & Stock Pub.: 2003)

David W. J. Gill & Conrad Gempf, editors, The Book of Acts in Its First Century; Vol. 2: Graeco-Roman Setting (Eerdmans: 1994)

Colin J. Hemer, Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History (Eisenbrauns: 1990)

Martin Hengel, Acts and the History of Earliest Christianity (Wipf & Stock Pub.: 2003)

Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., The Old Testament Documents: Are They Reliable & Relevant? (IVP: 2001)

Jodi Magness, The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls (Studies in the Dead Sea Scrolls & Related Literature) (Eerdmans: 2003)

Bruce M. Metzger, The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration (Oxford Univ. Press, 3rd ed.: 1992)

Brian Rapske, The Book of Acts in Its First Century; Vol. 3: Paul in Roman Custody (Eerdmans: 1994)

Graham Stanton, Gospel Truth?: New Light on Jesus and the Gospels (Trinity Pr Intl: 1995)

Emanuel Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (Augsburg Fortress Pub., rev ed.: 2001)

Eugene Ulrich, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Origins of the Bible (Studies in the Dead Sea Scrolls and Related Literature) (Eerdmans: 1999)

Bruce W. Winter & Andrew D. Clarke, editors, The Book of Acts in Its First Century; Vol. 1: Ancient Literary Setting (Eerdmans: 1994)


BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY (OLD TESTAMENT AND GENERAL)

William Foxwell Albright, Archaeology and the Religion of Israel (Westminster John Knox Press: 2006)

William Foxwell Albright, The Archaeology of Palestine and the Bible (Gorgias Press: 2009)

William Foxwell Albright, The Biblical Period from Abraham to Ezra: An Historical Survey (Harper Torchbook: 1963)

John Ashton and David Down, Unwrapping the Pharaohs: How Egyptian Archaeology Confirms the Biblical Timeline (Master Books: 2006)

John D. Currid, Ancient Egypt and the Old Testament (Baker: 1997)

William G. Dever, What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Archaeology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel (Eerdmans: 2002)

Alfred Hoerth, Archaeology and the Old Testament (Baker: 1998)

Alfred Hoerth & John McRay, Bible Archaeology: An Exploration of the History and Culture of Early Civilizations (Baker: 2006)

James K. Hoffmeier, The Archaeology of the Bible (Lion UK: 2008)

James K. Hoffmeier, Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition (Oxford Univ. Press: 1999)

James K. Hoffmeier, Ancient Israel in Sinai: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Wilderness Tradition (Oxford Univ. Press: 2010)

James K. Hoffmeier & Alan Millard, editors, The Future of Biblical Archaeology: Reassessing Methodologies and Assumptions (Eerdmans: 2004)

David M. Howard, Jr. & Michael A. Grisanti, Giving the Sense: Understanding and Using Old Testament Historical Texts (Kregel: 2004)

Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., A History of Israel: From the Bronze Age Through the Jewish Wars (Broadman & Holman Pub.: 1998)

K. A. Kitchen, On the Reliability of the Old Testament (Eerdmans: 2003)

K. A. Kitchen, The Bible in Its World: The Bible and Archaeology Today (Wipf & Stock Pub.: 2004)

James D. Long, Riddle of the Exodus: Startling Parallels Between Ancient Jewish Sources and the Egyptian Archaeological Record (Lightcatcher Books, rev. ed., 2006)

V. Philips Long, editor, Windows into Old Testament History: Evidence, Argument, and the Crisis of Biblical Israel (Eerdmans: 2002)

Eugene H. Merrill, Kingdom of Priests: A History of Old Testament Israel (Baker: 1997)

Randall Price, The Stones Cry Out: What Archaeology Reveals About the Truth of the Bible (Harvest House: 1997)

Iain W. Provan, V. Philips Long, & Tremper Longman, A Biblical History of Israel (Westminster John Knox Press: 2003)

Edwin M. Yamauchi, Persia and the Bible (Baker: 1997)

Edwin M. Yamauchi, Stones and the Scriptures (Baker: 1981)

BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY (NEW TESTAMENT)


E. M. Blaiklock, The Archaeology of the New Testament (Thomas Nelson: 2nd ed.: 1984)

James H. Charlesworth, Jesus and Archaeology (Eerdmans: 2006)

John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Baker: 2008)

Merrill Unger, Archaeology and the New Testament (Zondervan: 1984)

Edwin M. Yamauchi, The Archaeology of New Testament Cities in Western Asia Minor (Baker: 1980)

HISTORICAL EVIDENCE FOR JESUS

Richard J. Bauckham, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony (Eerdmans: 2006)

Darrell L. Bock, Studying the Historical Jesus: A Guide to Sources and Methods (Baker: 2002)

Darrell L. Bock & Daniel B. Wallace, Dethroning Jesus: Exposing Popular Culture’s Quest to Unseat the Biblical Christ (Thomas Nelson: 2007)

Gregory A. Boyd, Cynic Sage Or Son Of God? (Baker: 1995)

James H. Charlesworth, The Historical Jesus: An Essential Guide (Abingdon Press: 2008)

Paul Rhodes Eddy & Gregory A. Boyd, Jesus Legend, The: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition (Baker: 2007)

Craig A. Evans, Fabricating Jesus: How Modern Scholars Distort the Gospels (IVP: 2008)

Gary R. Habermas, The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ (College Press Pub. Co.: 1996)

J. Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer, & Daniel Wallace, Reinventing Jesus (Kregel: 2006)

Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ: A Journalist’s Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus (Zondervan: 1998)

Lee Strobel, The Case for the Real Jesus: A Journalist Investigates Current Attacks on the Identity of Christ (Zondervan: 2007)

Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence (Studying the Historical Jesus) (Eerdmans: 2000)

Michael J. Wilkins & J. P. Moreland, editors, Jesus Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents the Historical Jesus (Zondervan: 1996)

Ben Witherington III, The Jesus Quest: The Third Search for the Jew of Nazareth (IVP: 2nd ed.: 1997)

N. T. Wright, Who Was Jesus? (Eerdmans: 1993)

N. T. Wright, The New Testament and the People of God (Augsburg Fortress Pub.: 1992)

N. T. Wright, Jesus and the Victory of God (Augsburg Fortress Pub.: 1997)

HISTORICAL AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE AND JESUS’ RESURRECTION

William Lane Craig, The Son Rises: The Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus (Moody Press: 1981)

William Lane Craig & Gerd Ludemann; edited by Ronald Tacelli & Paul Copan, Jesus’ Resurrection: Fact or Figment?: A Debate Between William Lane Craig and Gerd Ludemann (IVP: 2000)

Craig A. Evans & N. T. Wright, Jesus, the Final Days: What Really Happened (Westminster John Knox: 2009)

Gary R. Habermas & Michael R. Licona, The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Kregel: 2004)

Gary R. Habermas & Antony Flew; edited by David J. Baggett, Did the Resurrection Happen?: A Conversation With Gary Habermas and Antony Flew (IVP: 2009)

Gary R. Habermas, Antony Flew, & Terry L. Miethe, Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?: The Resurrection Debate (Wipf & Stock: 2003)

Josh McDowell & Sean McDowell, Evidence for the Resurrection (Regal: 2009)

Frank Morison, Who Moved the Stone? (Zondervan: 1987)

Lee Strobel, The Case for Easter: Journalist Investigates the Evidence for the Resurrection (Zondervan: 2004)

Lee Strobel, The Case for the Resurrection (Zondervan: 2010)

N. T. Wright, The Resurrection of the Son of God (Augsburg Fortress Pub.: 2003)

N. T. Wright, Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church (HarperOne: 2008)

N. T. Wright & John Dominic Crossan; edited by Robert B. Stewart, The Resurrection of Jesus: John Dominic Crossan And N.T. Wright in Dialogue (Fortress Press: 2006)

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Photo credit: “geralt” (12-9-14) [Pixabay / CC0 public domain]

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December 14, 2015

Reply to Atheist John W. Loftus’ Irrational Criticisms of the Biblical Accounts

Mary22

(2-3-11)

Atheist and former Christian John W. Loftus runs the Debunking Christianity website. I hung around there quite a bit a few years ago. Many attempted interactions with him and his positions can be found on my Atheism, Agnosticism, and Secularism web page.

In recent months I have been particularly interested in submitting refutations of claims that the Bible is internally contradictory. Loftus’ post, “Was Jesus Born in Bethlehem?” (originally 12-16-06 and charmingly re-posted on Christmas Eve, 2010) offers one such golden opportunity. His words will be in blue.

* * * * *

Consider the other problems inherent with the story:

Jesus was not born in Bethlehem, if Luke is taken literally, according to E. P. Sanders [The Historical Figure of Jesus (Penguin Press, 1993, pp. 84-91)].

Right. Let me see if I understand this correctly: the text in Luke (2:4, 15) states that He was born there, but somehow, if we take the account “literally,” He actually wasn’t, according to the Wise Men of our time. I wonder, then: if a text makes an assertion, but the very assertion supposedly proves the thing is false, then how do we know when something is true? The text has to deliberately not assert it; then we know it is true? That makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it? About as much sense as a hole in the head . . .

Loftus, following Sanders’ eisegetical methodology, arbitrarily charges interpolation or text alteration when he finds anything in the Bible difficult to reconcile with anything else. This is the game that Bible skeptics have been playing for two thousand years now. Hence, Sanders writes in his book (music to Loftus’ atheist ears):

The two gospels [Matthew and Luke] have completely different and irreconcilable ways of moving Jesus and his family from one place to the other . . . It is not possible for both these stories to be accurate. It is improbable that either is. . . .

People resort to such alterations of the text in order to save it: the text must be true, and if we revise it we can still claim that it is true. Revision, however, overthrows the principle.

(pp. 85-86; hardcover edition available at amazon)

This is classic “higher critical” mentality (going back in this case to famous “higher critics” David Strauss [in an 1839 work] and Ernest Renan [1863]): if there is any “problem” in interpreting the biblical text, then immediately we resort to cynical and ungrounded speculation about unsavory motivations of the writers and their desire to modify texts regardless of the actual facts of any given matter. This, of course, cannot be proved. It’s all sheer speculation. It all has to do with how one approaches the issue from the outset: with openness and at least attempted objectivity, or with hostility and a sort of paternalistic cynicism. Loftus openly admits in the combox (12-23-06) that his hostile presuppositions and premises determine virtually everything:

I state how I see things. That’s all I can do. For me it’s all about seeing things differently. It’s not about more and more knowledge. It’s about viewing what we know in a different light. . . . For me it’s not about more and more knowledge. It never has been. It’s about seeing the knowledge we already have in a different light. So I shed light on how I see things. That’s all I can do. You’ll either see it, or you won’t. . . . No one sees things differently in bits and pieces. It’s an all or nothing happening. But before you can see the whole, I must share how I see things on a wide variety of the bits and pieces. So just add this bit and piece to the other bits and pieces I’ve shared here (that make no sense to you whatsoever), but at some point, if I keep on doing this, and if it’ll happen at all, you will catch a glimpse of how I see the total set of things. I don’t know what you know, and you don’t know what I know. But how we view that which we know is the difference that makes all the difference.

It’s all in the interpretation and the premises one has, and these can suddenly change. As Loftus correctly puts it: “It’s an all or nothing happening.” I’ve been arguing this for years, myself, so it is gratifying to see an atheist so eloquently verify my critique (and theory) of how atheism somehow comes about in a Christian mind.

What husband would take a nine-month pregnant woman on such a trek from Nazareth at that time when only heads of households were obligated to register for a census when the census would’ve been stretched out over a period of weeks or even months?

Obviously, there must have been some necessity or compulsion for Mary to also be present. But that makes no sense to Loftus: he would rather impugn the character of the Gospel writers, by having them drum up an account with a nearly-due pregnant wife subject to grueling discomforts, that he, in his infinite atheist wisdom, can immediately figure out is implausible. Thus, recourse to desperate fictional accounts seems far more likely to Loftus than the first scenario.

Luke 2:3 refers to Joseph being “enrolled with Mary, his betrothed.” Perhaps the impending marriage was an additional factor requiring her to also be there. The New Bible Dictionary (1962 ed., “Census,” p. 203) observed:

It is . . . widely agreed . . . that it could have involved the return of each householder to his domicile of origin, as Lk. ii. 3 states.

But if he did, why did he not take better precautions for the birth? Why not take Mary to her relative Elizabeth’s home just a few miles away from Bethlehem for the birth of her baby?

Probably because the baby chose to arrive at the time He did, when they were going to register for the census! I guess Loftus isn’t familiar with the process of childbirth. I’ve witnessed all four of my children being born. One time we made an entire trip some 12 miles away to the hospital, only to be turned away, as it was too early. There is no need to be cynical about this aspect of the story. Babies are born when the “time is right,” and often we have no idea when that will be.

According to Luke’s own genealogy (3:23-38) David had lived 42 generations earlier. Why should everyone have had to register for a census in the town of one of his ancestors forty-two generations earlier? There would be millions of ancestors by that time, and the whole empire would have been uprooted. Why 42 generations and not 35, or 16? If it was just required of the lineage of King David to register for the census, what was Augustus thinking when he ordered it? He had a King, Herod. “Under no circumstances could the reason for Joseph’s journey be, as Luke says, that he was ‘of the house and lineage of David,’ because that was of no interest to the Romans in this context.” [Uta Ranke-Heinemann, Putting Away Childish Things, (p.10)].

Lineage and past history were very important to Jews. Being from the lineage of David was obviously a point of pride for a Jew. Distance in time was as irrelevant then as it is to Jews even now (even atheist Jews: I’ve talked to at least one), who celebrate Passover: commemorating an event that is now well over 3000 years ago. Hannukah celebrates an event that happened in approximately 165 B.C.: over 2000 years ago.

The time from David to Mary and Joseph was a mere 1000 or so years. I fail to see the validity of this lightweight objection. It was probably determined, anyway, by whatever the Roman law entailed: registration in ancestral lands. It may have been a matter of voluntary Jewish (or local Roman) custom, or a sort of combination of both things. Hence, the liberal Catholic scholar Raymond Brown suggested:

One cannot rule out the possibility that, since Romans often adapted their administration to local circumstances, a census conducted in Judea would respect the strong attachment of Jewish tribal and ancestral relationships.

(The Birth of the Messiah: New York: Doubleday, 549)

According to Jewish census customs (assuming for the sake of argument, that Roman Palestine took them into account), ancestral home was highly important, and both the husband and wife would travel: especially in this instance, since Mary was also of the lineage of David).

Conservapedia“Luke and the Census” offers similar plausible scenarios:

A final set of objections has nothing to do with the date of the census, or the translation of the passage in question, but instead aims to launch a flurry of speculative attacks at the details provided by Luke. Perhaps the most common is the objection that a census would not have required travel. Adding to the difficulty is a misunderstanding of Luke’s text, whereby it is believed that Saint Luke is describing a decree that required the taxed to return to their ancestral townships.

This formed the backbone of the set of criticisms leveled by E. P. Sanders, who stated that it would have been the practice for the census-takers, not the taxed, to travel. Moreover, he added that such a decree would require people to keep track of millions of ancestors; tens of thousands of descendants of David would all be arriving at Bethlehem, his birthplace, at the same time; and Herod, whose dynasty was unrelated to the Davidic line, would hardly have wished to call attention to royal ancestry that had a greater claim to legitimacy.

[Footnote 28: E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus, Penguin, 1993, p86; see also Bart Ehrman, A Brief Introduction to the New Testament, p 103.]

The simple fact is that Luke does not, in any place, state that the census required people to travel to the home of their ancestors. Instead, Luke says simply that “all went to their own towns”. When Luke mentions return to one’s ancestral town, he is speaking only of Joseph.

[Footnote 29: Mark D. Smith ‘Of Jesus and Quirinius’, in Catholic Biblical Quarterly, vol. 62, no. 2 (April 2000), p. 289.]

In other words, people were required to travel to their township, but only this. Joseph chose to journey to his ancestral town, and to be registered there, rather than to his town of residence.

Mark D. Smith gave two reasons why Joseph would have made such a choice. As historian S. L. Wallace and others observed, some censuses gave up to a 50% tax reduction if one registered in a metropolis.

[Footnote 30: S. L. Wallace, Taxation in Egypt from Augustus to Diocletian (Princeton University Studies in Papyrology 2; Princeton University Press, 1938); cf. N. Lewis, Life in Egypt Under Roman Rule (Oxford: Clarendon, 1983), p. 170; Derrett, Further Light on the Nativity of the Nativity p. 90-94.]

Because Bethlehem, Joseph’s ancestral home, was close to Jerusalem, he could qualify for the reduction.

[Footnote 31: Smith, ibid., p. 297]

This incidentally answers another objection; namely, why Joseph would have brought the very pregnant Mary along – he could have been motivated to register his firstborn son so that Jesus would qualify for the reduction when he came of age.

[Footnote 32: Smith, ibid., p. 297]

Census records from Egypt record an unusual number of houses listed as having no resident, and this may be evidence for the practice of registering in a metropolis (if one could make such a claim) rather than a town of residence.

[Footnote 33: Brook W. R. Pearson, ‘The Lukan Census, Revisited’, in Catholic Biblical Quarterly, vol. 1, no. 2 (April 1999), p. 276.]

The second reason given by Smith is that Joseph may have owned property in his ancestral home, Bethlehem, and thus would need to register there. This property could have been as simple as farmland or a threshing floor, and need not imply any sort of wealth on Joseph’s part.

[Footnote 34: Smith, ibid., 289-90]

Against this, it has been argued that Joseph and Mary would not have needed to stay in an “inn”, as Luke records, if they had property in Bethlehem. The obvious weakness of this argument is that the property need not have constituted a suitable dwelling place, or a structure at all.

Radically questioning the text and/or the historicity of what is recorded there (leading to the foregone conclusion of questioning Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem) is obviously, then, not the only explanation any thinking person can give. But Loftus presents it that way; precisely because his skeptical game has no concern whatever for Christian explanations of the “difficulties” that atheists and other Bible skeptics love (almost more than anything) to toss abouit and chuckle over.

Loftus himself inadvertently concurs with one theory presented above (Joseph owning something in Bethlehem):

The fact is, even if there was a worldwide Roman census that included Galilee at this specific time, there is evidence that Census takers taxed people based upon the land they owned, so they traveled to where people lived.

If in fact Joseph owned some land in Bethlehem, then that was a different location from his current residence. Therefore, rather than making a censor travel to two places for one person, it stands to reason that the person with multiple properties would travel to at least one of them, especially if property directly tied into the census, as explained above (just like today: I use a business expense of home deduction, which ties property into income tax).

According to Robin Lane Fox, “Luke’s story is historically impossible and internally incoherent.”

That’s sheer nonsense. There is no impossibility in it at all. That is an extraordinarily silly claim for anyone to make: to try to assert a negative proposition like that.

But he says, “Luke’s errors and contradictions are easily explained.

That presupposes that they are there in the first place (which skeptics always do, rather than make any serious attempt to explain ostensible “difficulties”).

Early Christian tradition did not remember, or perhaps ever know, exactly where and when Jesus had been born. People were much more interested in his death and consequences.” “After the crucifixion and the belief in the resurrection, people wondered all the more deeply about Jesus’ birthplace. Bethlehem, home of King David, was a natural choice for the new messiah. There was even a prophecy in support of the claim which the ‘little town’ has maintained so profitably to this day.” So, “a higher truth was served by an impossible fiction.” [The Unauthorized Version: Truth and Fiction in the Bible(Knopf, 1992), p. 31-32]. “Luke’s real source for the view that Jesus was born in Bethlehem was almost certainly the conviction that Jesus fulfilled a hope that someday a descendant of David would arise to save Israel,” because the Messiah was supposed to come from there (Micah 5:2). [E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus (p. 87.)].

How quaint and (un)imaginative. Note what has happened here. This is the very essence of irrational special pleading. The text came about because of wishful thinking and the desire of the writers to cynically, deceitfully align with Old Testament messianic prophecy. But how does one possibly prove such an outlandish accusation? There is no hard evidence (let alone indisputable, ironclad) for such a thing! Our choice is to believe that:

1) The NT writers believed Jesus was born in Bethlehem because in fact He was born there, and they had evidence to substantiate the fact.

2) The NT writers knew that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem because they had no evidence to substantiate the fact, but they “wrote it in” anyway because of the need for Jesus as Messiah to fulfill OT prophecy that named the town (Micah 5:2).

3) The NT writers mistakenly but sincerely believed Jesus was born in Bethlehem and reported this as fact, even though they had no hard proof of it.

Now, how would one go about proving the second or third scenarios? If in fact the NT writers were lying through their teeth and didn’t believe their own words, how in the world would one establish that? If indeed Jesus was born in Bethlehem, as a point of actual fact (thinking purely theoretically for a moment), and if indeed the NT writers knew He was born there, and reported it, then there would be no deception, and this would in fact be a fulfillment of OT prophecy (i.e., for the person who believes in faith that Jesus is the Messiah, based on many considerations).

It all comes down to what is deemed to be fact and non-factual or of dubious historicity (from the historiographical perspective). But we can’t simply pull skeptical ideas out of a hat and assert them as if there is good reason to state such scenarios of alleged deliberate lying.

I can just as well fault skeptics who argue in such a way (that I think is circular special pleading) because they don’t believe in prophecy in the first place. Loftus obviously does not and cannot, since there is no God to give the revelation that is prophecy. If the thing is impossible, then obviously an alleged “fulfillment” of it is a sham as well.

So (given that hostile premise) it is thought that the Gospel writers were simply playing games by naming Bethlehem because of Micah 5:2: wholly apart from real knowledge of the event. But all they had to do was ask Jesus about it, or His parents. They were there. They knew what happened. They can’t change or manufacture their own lineage, which is why they were in Bethlehem in the first place. Even Jesus can’t change the fact of who His earthly parents were, as a point of fact.

It gets rather silly. As an analogy, to illustrate the foolishness of such “argumentation,” take the famous case (for baseball fans) of Babe Ruth calling his home run in the 1932 World Series. The fact is that he hit a home run in that game, and eyewitnesses swear to the fact that he “called the shot.” Now, let’s go ahead 2000 years from now and imagine how a skeptic would “reason”. The choices are again as follows:

1) The sportswriters believed Babe Ruth called and then hit the home run because in fact he did do both, and they had eyewitness evidence to substantiate the fact.

2) The sportswriters knew that Babe Ruth didn’t call and then hit the home run because they knew it didn’t actually happen, but they “wrote it in” anyway because of the need to create the myth of Babe Ruth as the greatest baseball player ever: larger than life.

3) The sportswriters mistakenly but sincerely believed that Babe Ruth called and then hit the home run and reported this as fact, even though they had no hard proof of it.

Now, would someone 2000 years later be acting reasonably in believing #1? Yes. Could they reasonably take position #2? Yes, provided they produced some documented evidence for the assertion. They could also believe #3, but would need evidence for that, too. But the problem is that biblical critics don’t require (let alone use or produce) any hard evidence to start questioning anything in the Bible. With their mentality, they could simply deny that Babe Ruth called the home run. Or they could deny that he actually hit it. Why believe 50,000 spectators in the park and the box scores? They could all have been made up for the purpose of myth-making. If 500 eyewitnesses in the Bible can make up a Resurrection appearance, why can’t 50,000 make up a legend of Ruth predicting his homer?

So that is how they would reason, if they were subject to the irrationalism of Loftus and a pitiable multitude biblical skeptics who think, clone-like, just like him. But the fact remains that the home run was hit, and that (by most accounts) it was called. That is the fact. And Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem can just as easily and conceivably also be a fact. He had to be born somewhere. Why should the Bible lie about it? To fulfill prophecy, so we are told, but that reasoning is ultimately circular: merely assuming without argument or evidence what it needs to prove.

In many other places we read that the people of his time called him “Jesus of Nazareth” (Matthew 26:70-72; Mark 1:23-25; Mark 10:46-48; Luke 4:34; Luke 18:37; Luke 24:20; John 1:45; John 18:6-8; John 19:19; Acts 2:22; Acts 6:14; Acts 10:38; Acts 22:9; Acts 26:9), so scholars conclude it’s more likely that Jesus was born and raised in Nazareth. They think this because the NT writers quoted OT verses from Psalms and the prophets out of context to point to Jesus. The NT writers were intent on making Jesus’ birth, life, nature and mission to fit anything in the Old Testament that could be construed to speak of him, as proof he was who they claimed him to be.

This is delicious. I think it utterly backfires as an argument. Why and how it does is almost so obvious that one could miss it. We have just been told that it is intelligent to believe that the NT writers made up Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem because they were deliberately making it fulfill the prophecy of Micah 5:2, even though they knew it was untrue or didn’t know where Jesus was born. Hold that thought.

Now we are told that the title Jesus of Nazareth somehow suggests that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem because He was raised in Nazareth. That clearly doesn’t follow. My father lived in the Detroit area for over sixty years. But he was born in Canada: about sixteen miles over the border. One can easily be associated with a town without having been born there. So that in itself is a gratuitously false premise.

But the massive biblical use of Jesus of Nazareth actually works against Loftus’ argument, because if the writers of the New Testament “were intent on making Jesus’ birth, life, nature and mission to fit anything in the Old Testament that could be construed to speak of him,” why in the world would this title be featured, since the messianic prophecy about birth was about Bethlehem? The skeptic can’t have it both ways. If the writers were trying to lie and make out that Bethlehem was the place then why was it mentioned so few times, while Nazareth was mentioned many times? It makes no sense. The skeptical scenario doesn’t have the ring of truth.

The mention of Nazareth is taken at face value (so it is concluded that Jesus not only lived, but was born there), while the occurrences of “Bethlehem” are scorned simply because of the connection to Micah 5:2. Nazareth is not even mentioned in the Old Testament at all! So if they were trying to lie, this would be one of the last choices of location to use. Matthew 2:23 ties “Nazarene” to the prophets, but these prophecies were not in the Old Testament. They were either from an extrabiblical source or oral tradition. Therefore, if the goal was to find Old Testament references, “Nazareth” is an inscrutable choice, whereas Bethlehem was indisputably mentioned there and connected to the Messiah.

But any Christian today who uses the Bible to argue for their views without taking into consideration the context of the passages in question, would be laughed at even in their own academic circles!

Yes, and when atheists do this all day long and incessantly in their endless rants against the Bible, those of us who actually study and revere the Bible think very little of their efforts, too. But it’s very time-consuming to tediously show how they distort things. That’s why there are full-time apologists like myself, who can take the time to do the necessary work to show the fallacies and lay bare the cynical folly and irrationality of these efforts.

Matthew’s account of Jesus’ birth fares no better. Robin Lane Fox: “Bethlehem was not Jesus’ birthplace but was imported from Hebrew prophecies about the future Messiah; the Star had similar origins (Numbers 24:17). Matthew’s story is a construction from well-known messianic prophecies (Bethlehem; the Star), and the Wise Men (Magi) have been added as another legend.” “Where the truth had been lost, stories filled the gap, and the desire to know fabricated its own tradition.”

More circular reasoning and unsubstantiated nonsense, as explained above.

There are even discrepancies between the Gospels themselves:

Luke told a tale of angels and shepherds, bringing some of the humblest people in society to Bethlehem with news of Jesus’ future. Instead of shepherds, Matthew brought Wise Men, following a star in the East and bringing gifts…In one version, there are simple shepherds, the other, learned Wise Men: the contrast sets our imaginations free, and perhaps like the Wise Men we too should return by ‘another way.” [The Unauthorized Version: Truth and Fiction in the Bible (Knopf, 1992), pp.35- 36].

How is this a “discrepancy”? One mentions one thing; the other mentions another. Neither says they were the only people there. So what? But the wise men actually came two years later, according to most Bible-believing scholarship (based on the evidence of Matthew 2:16), so it is talking about two different occasions anyway: all the more reason to deny the absurd charge of contradiction.

Luke has Joseph and Mary living in Nazareth from where they traveled to Bethlehem for the Roman census (Luke 1:26; 2:4). After Jesus was born, Joseph took his family from Bethlehem to Jerusalem for up to 40 days (Luke 2:22), and from there straight back to Nazareth (Luke 2:39). But Matthew says Jesus was born in a “house” where Joseph’s family lived in Bethlehem. And after the birth of Jesus they lived there for up to two years (Matt 2:16)! After the Magi leave them, Joseph is warned in a dream to flee to Egypt and stay there until Herod died (Matt. 2:15). After Herod died, Joseph was told in a dream to return to the land of Israel, and he headed for his home in Bethlehem of Judea. But since he was afraid to go there, he settled in Nazareth (Matt. 2:21-23), for the first time!

The fabulous Protestant apologist Glenn Miller, who specializes in debunking all of these endlessly alleged “Bible difficulties” took on these charges in his post, “Contradictions in the Infancy stories?” He observed:

First, let’s look at the statement of [atheist Christopher] Hitchens that Luke and Matthew “flatly contradict one another on the Flight to Egypt”. Now, to verify this claim it is necessary first to take the two statements by each author and look at them side by side. Then, we can look into more detail about the two statements to see if they are in fact ‘contradictory without a doubt’. [cites Matthew passage] . . .

Compare that with Luke’s statement about the Flight to Egypt:–oops, there is no statement by Luke on the Flight to Egypt. In fact, he doesn’t mention it one way or the other. He doesn’t support the historicity of the Flight, nor does he disparage it.

OK, that was easy. There cannot be statements that ‘flatly contradict’ (note the ‘-dict’ part of the word… means ‘something SAID’) one another on subject X if there is only one statement about X!

But we all know what the atheist-fellow means: the accounts flatly contradict one another if you make the silence in Luke (about the Magi/Flight) mean more than silence, and if you insert the word ‘immediately’ into the silence in Matthew about WHEN the warning to Joseph came… If ‘silence about event X’ means ‘denial of event X’ or ‘immediately’ (smile), then maybe they are correct. But this is a BIG, BIG step—from silence to denial (especially in historical accounts!)—and even if it is true, it is certainly not obvious, explicit, or a case of ‘flatly contradicting’. Silence can mean many things other than ‘denial’ (e.g., lack of interest, irrelevance to the argument–even ignorance of the fact itself is not ‘denial’!). To read ‘immediacy’ into a silence is just as bad.

But you should all see by now what I mean, tooin the absence of EXPLICIT contradiction, one has to interpret the text in such a way as to CREATE a contradiction. There is no contradiction in what the text ‘presents’–at a surface level–but one has to re-create the historical scene “behind” the text, in such a way as to GENERATE a contradiction. In other words, we take textual statements and ‘visualize’ or ‘re-create in our minds’, if you will, the historical sequence BEHIND those texts. Our author has taken the gospel narratives and ‘re-created’ the historical scene as one in which the sequences are out-of-synch. But the text itself does not make that explicit at all, and the same textual data can be used to ‘re-create’ in-synch sequences as well (at least two plausible ones, as we will note toward the end of this discussion).

[all emphases and capitals and coloring his own]

Miller summarizes the two accounts and draws conclusions from them (I added a few words — in brackets –, where he used abbreviations):

Note a couple of things from Luke:

Joseph and Mary are from Nazareth

(No mention of pregnancy-crisis)

They travel to Bethlehem

Jesus is born in Bethlehem

Shepherds visit Jesus in Bethlehem

Joseph/Mary/Jesus make a trip to Jerusalem for various Jewish rituals

(No mention of Magi/Flight)

Sometime after the various rituals, they return to their own city of Nazareth.

When we compare this list with Matthew, here’s what we see:

Joseph and Mary are introduced without reference to [Bethlehem] or [Nazareth].

Pregnancy-crisis.

Jesus is born in Bethlehem

(No mention of Shepherds)

(No mention of family trip to Jerusalem for obligatory Jewish rituals)

Visit of Magi

Flight to Egypt

Family settles in Nazareth

But notice that Luke does NOT indicate a short trip from Nazareth to Jerusalem (for ritual purposes) at all. Neither [Matthew] nor [Luke] have such a trip in their respective narrative, so the blog-visitor’s statement (at least the ‘specifically’ part) is inaccurate.

But also notice that both authors are only reporting some of the events—they share the key elements (i.e., Jesus born in royal city of Bethlehem, Jesus ends up in a despised town of Nazareth), and they each select a subset of the history for their particular point (e.g., Luke has the ritual-trip to emphasize the law-biding character of the family and the acceptance of Jesus by godly Jews; Matthew has the Flight/Secret-Return story to emphasize the early rejection of—or indifference to– Jesus by the Jewish leadership)

With the various omissions of each, it is hard to really construct ‘overlapping periods’ in which to situate anything but the barest of events. The centerpiece birth in Bethlehem anchors everything, and the story ‘ends’ at [Nazareth] in both. Thus, it would take more explicit textual data to make this into a problem…

What emerges from this first-glance look at the objections, is that much is being made from the omissions and silences in the text. To be sure, one COULD CHOOSE to interpret these silences/omissions in such a way as to construe these problems, but how would one defend such choices? Developing arguments from silence is notoriously dangerous, and rarely is certain enough to carry the conclusion single-handedly! . . .

Biographical writing is notoriously selective—hence the assumption of ‘full account’ will be wrong almost all the time (especially in antiquity). And whereas the birth-in-Bethlehem and the homesteading-in-Nazareth would fit the ‘so central… automatically included’ criteria, it would be not be obvious that ANY of the other details would be so central (e.g., the pregnancy-crisis, visits by Magi, flight to Egypt, slaughter of innocents, visits of shepherds, etc could easily be considered subservient to each author’s narrative purpose).

The article continues on in extreme detail, for anyone who is interested in delving into this textual issue in the utmost depth: examined in this case by someone who believes in biblical inspiration and the integrity of the biblical text — which is also a bias and premise, but far more acceptable in doing biblical interpretation than the constant hostility of the atheist or other kind of biblical skeptics.

He examines, in turn, arguments from silence, several Bible commentaries and their takes, “the conventional and/or preferred ways of delivering historical narrative” in the literary methods of the ancient world (a factor vastly unknown or ignored by atheist and theologically liberal “exegesis”), — particularly the techniques of “telescoping” and “thematic order,” which was “fairly standard practice in the ancient world.” He then provides hard evidence of these practices from:

1) a monument of ancient Assyria,
2) Josephus,
3) Thucydides,
4) Dionysius of Halicarnassus, and
5) Jason of Cyrene and the Roman Jurists.

Then he discusses “Epitome” — which “was a genre of writing which was specifically a condensation of another’s work(s), or a group of authors’ works on a specific theme.” He notes the ancient preference for thematic rather than chronological order and shows how the Bible writers were of the same mind in that respect. Miller writes (his bolding and color):

 

What this means is that it will be very, very difficult to find a ‘chronological contradiction’ anywhere in the gospel narratives, since the gospel authors are not even trying to maintain strict chronological sequence—it just was not that important to writers of that period. They arranged their material in the interests of clarity of logical or thematic presentation, instead of chronological. And this condensation, omission, and telescoping is pervasive in all of biblical literature.

 

He proceeds to document massive examples of these techniques being used in the New Testament, and a few from the Old Testament. He then argues (quite brilliantly) that because these techniques were widely understood at the time, the first skeptics of Christianity in the pagan world did not use these issues as a point of attack. He gives extensive examples of Celsus, and shows that he did not argue in such a fashion. He then analyzes Porphyry and shows how he looked for contradictions, but ones of “contradiction between teachings, not about chronology.” He summarizes:

Remember, my thesis here is not that ancient authors didn’t find any chronological contradictions to attack, but rather that they did not argue the existence of contradictions from telescoped, condensed, high-omission-count, summarized passages. . . .

See, this is my point: modern attacks/assertions of objectors/believers alike are just often off-the-mark, given the ancient literary world. The conventions we see in OUR passages here are such that nobody should be ‘exorcising extraneous detail’ out of them, because they were not written for that purpose.

Note that this applies to ANY/ALL ‘chronological contradiction’ issues, not just our Infancy Story case. Many objections against the NT will simply be off the mark for this reason alone.

He examines arguments of Macarius Magnes, Hierocles, and Julian, whose critical work reveals the same lack of modern techniques of atheists and liberals who no longer understand how ancient near eastern literature operated. He sees some exception in Julian, but then gives a theory to explain the difference (his different upbringing and lack of understanding in certain areas and his frequent lack of scruples and principle in argument). He then summarizes a self-consistent chronology of the infancy narratives:

The ‘traditional’ sequence given in the back of many bibles, then, involves placing the Magi/Flight sequence ‘inside’ Luke 2.39. As can be seen in the ‘conservative’ commentators we cited above, one can visualize those events in a “telescopic gap” in Luke’s account (who has already telescoped 3 trips to Jerusalem into 2). The sequence then becomes:

(1) after the last trip to Jerusalem, the holy family returns to Bethlehem [Joseph perhaps supposing that the Son of David should grow up there];

(2) the proclamation by Simeon and Anna probably reaches Herod’s ears and sensitizes him to the prophetic time frame;

(3) Magi arrive at Jerusalem and travel on to Bethlehem, and then depart;

(4) warning to Joseph/Flight to Egypt;

(5) Slaughter of the Innocents–with the ‘two years and under’ clause indicating the lack of precision in the timing, but also that the Magi visited sometime AFTER the first several months of Jesus’ life;

(6) death of Herod; and finally

(7) return of the holy family from Egypt to Galilee. This easily fits the scant data we have in the gospels.

Then he provides a capsule summary of all the massive argumentation he just did (thus showing the huge fallacies and ignorance of the atheist attacks on Scripture on these grounds):

  • The initial objections are based too heavily on assumptions, omissions and alleged implications in the presenting texts, and cannot stand as currently stated.
  • Arguments from silence in historical narratives require (at least) that the author was attempting to give a full account and that the details omitted were absolutely central to the story line (as used by the author for his/her narrative aims).
  • Conservative bible commentators are not ‘embarrassed’ by the silences of Mt/Luke, and many offer plausible reconstructions of narrative intent (which explain the omissions’ roles in the ‘surface’ of the text).
  • The literary world (even today) knows of the telescoping and summarization techniques, and the ancient literary world both prescribed (Lucian) and widely used (many authors) these.
  • The implication of this for us is that we need to read ancient narratives more through thematic than chronological eyes—in cases of abridgment and telescoping.
  • The NT writers—as members of the class of ‘ancient writers’—used this technique heavily, too. [And so did the writers of the Hebrew Bible.]
  • The first major anti-Christian writers in history never seem to deny this principle—they never attack such usage as ‘where contradictions lie’. There are little-to-no attacks on chronology, and those that do appear do not conform to the pattern under study.
  • The most famous cases in the NT of telescoping are not ‘taken to task’ by any of the classically-trained ancient objectors, including Porphyry.
  • The single case of the emperor Julian—even though it is not fully in our pattern– can be understood as due to his abnormal (and imbalanced) education.

Fantastic! This reveals, as brilliantly as I’ve ever seen, the profundity of the ignorance of so many critics of the Bible, with regard to ancient literary techniques and understandings. In addition to not understanding the basics of logic (what a true contradiction is), they fall prey to not comprehending these very important and relevant factors as well.

See also the related materials:

“Solving the Census of Quirinius” (10-27-20)

“Historical Evidence for Quirinius and the Census”, Bible History.net, 2013.

“The Census of Quirinius”, The Bible History Guy, 10-16-19.

Recent Scholarship Dating Herod’s Death Matches Christian Texts About Jesus’s Birth, G. W. Thielman, The Federalist, 12-20-17. 

***

Photo credit: The Adoration of the Shepherds (1622), by Gerard van Honthorst (1590-1656) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

***

November 16, 2015

. . . And of Course, “Jittery John” Again Explodes . . . 
 Volcano
[Flickr /  CC BY 2.0 license]
(11-30-06)
“Gird up your loins like a man, I will question you, and you shall declare to me.”

Job 38:3 (RSV)

“Pour forth the overflowings of your anger, and look on every one that is proud, and abase him . . . bring him low; and tread down the wicked where they stand.”

Job 40:11-12

 

This amazing display of condescension came about after I commented on a post from atheist John W. Loftus (author of a bunch of books and webmaster of the influential Debunking Christianity website), having to do with whether God was in time or not. John has a history (with me, at any rate) of flying off the handle, rather than presenting rational counter-replies, when some criticism is offered. The classic case was when I dared to offer criticisms of his deconversion story. His reaction has to be seen to be believed.

I had hoped that (with the passage of time) he had gotten over this skittishness and hair-trigger defensiveness and condescension where I am concerned, but alas, it was not to be. He has even “upped the ante” and continued a stream of insults toward me, for (quite outrageously) being and acting like a Christian confident in his faith and able to defend it. In the past, he has called me a “joke” and an “arrogant idiot” among other things. He has yet to retract any of the epithets.

Now, I’m the first to gladly assert that his reaction should not be seen as one that typifies atheists, or disproves any particular atheist version of reality. Neither is true. But that is not my purpose at present; rather, it is to show how even intelligent people (John has two masters’ degrees) can become utterly irrational and unreasonable when confronted with criticism of their arguments, and how harmful this is to the intellectual endeavor. This is how not to do it, folks!

There is also some considerable humor and amusement to be enjoyed (the section about “obvious”); I simply couldn’t resist. He laid himself out wide open on that one; provided the rope to hang him with. John’s words will be in blue.

* * * * *

. . . look these arguments up before you comment further. Please do my readers a favor here. Read up on this topic before you continue to waste space. Let other more informed people comment.

ME: On the other hand, it is obvious that God must be outside of time, if one accepts the description of Him that the Bible offers.

That he walked in the cool of the Garden of Eden? That he showed Moses his back side? That he appeared to Abraham? That he changed his mind? That he visited us in Jesus? You are ignorant if you think what you just said is obvious.

. . . Anthropomorphism. That saves you, doesn’t it? Then show me one verse in the Bible that could not have been written by an ancient superstitious person. Just one. Show me where there was a prediction of the computer chip, or a vaccine for Polio. Show me where God told people about the vastness and age of the universe.

ME: I suspect you are slanting his full argument. If he is orthodox, he would not put it in such despairing terms.

Read it yourself. Why is it that you distrust what I say? If you distrust what I say then why bother to comment on this at all? Just say you don’t believe he said this and move on.

[I didn’t say I distrusted it, only that there was possible bias in presenting the Christian’s argument]

Dave, you present your uninformed arguments as if everyone should agree with you, and that is what I object to.

You used the words “obvious” and “obviously” twice in this last comment alone, when not even all Christians will agree with you, much less atheists. Why do you continue to insist that the things you believe are obvious? That’s what I think is ignorant of you, for if they were obvious no one would disagree.

But that’s not all. You state “it is nonsensical and utterly illogical.” You state “This is radically unbiblical,” and “impossible exegetically.”

You annoy me, not because of your arguments, but because of your ill placed confidence. Any educated person would not state the things you do with such arrogance. That’s all.

Besides, it does nothing for your argument to add the word “obviously” to it. And if you were informed as you say about this, then you would know that such interpretatons are not impossible since Christians themselves think otherwise.

I mean, really, with you there is no discussion to be had for any topic you write about. You are the answer man. Everyone else is ignoring the obvious. And that’s the hallmark of an ignorant and uneducated man.

You keep being personally insulting, John, and I’ll keep making arguments (just like when I critiqued your deconversion). People can see through that.

If I’m as big of a dolt and an ignoramus as you endlessly contend, then surely you’ll be able to blow my arguments out of the water.

But of course, since you’re far less “confident” than I am, this handicap (or virtue, depending on one’s point of view) would OBVIOUSLY present an opposing counter-weight to your doing so.

Which scholar, for instance, would you point to who says his arguments are obvious?

I don’t know who’s a scholar or who isn’t, but I’ll use examples from this very blog:

Obviously, the problem is that each author of the various books treats ‘Faith’ as something differently.

(DagoodS, 11-1-06)

(I won’t argue whether such a conception of “degrees of individuality” is “true or not” in a philosophical sense, which will obviously get us no where, since how could one prove any of my assumptions above at all)?

(Ed Babinski, 10-20-06)

Obviously, this passage presents some theological difficulties for early Christians. This passage seems to run against the notion that Jesus is God.

(Bill Curry, 11-6-06)

. . . God must take the sum total of His wrath out on the most unworthy recipient, a wholly guiltless individual, who also happens to be Himself? Why is such a belief necessary? And why do Christian creeds insist on the necessity of such a belief, when it obviously does not appeal to all, nor even make sense to all?

(Ed Babinski, 10-20-06)

Conclusive proof that the Bible is NOT inerrant. [title] . . . The God who created the Universe, stars, planets, and our own Sun, obviously wasn’t aware of the very astronomical phenomena he created.

(Desolate-Paladin, 6-21-06)

Steve is obviously committing a fallacious appeal to authority, considering he hasn’t yet even evaluated my writing in order to refute it on the grounds of “no formal credentials”.

(Daniel Morgan, 5-11-06)

The Establishment Clause is best understood by the Lemon Test. This situation fails the test on obvious grounds, . . .

(Daniel Morgan, this very day: 11-30-06)

The message was as obvious as anything, but I tried to look for answers. I read up on the responses from all the theological camps, from the conservatives (Blomberg, Marshall, McKnight, Wright, Witherington) to moderates (Meyer, Brown) to the Jesus Seminar.

(exapologist – almost a scholar, going for his doctorate in philosophy, 9-9-06)

Rather it is a book easily proven to be filled with errors and of obvious human origin.

(s burgener, 11-5-06)

Now let’s say a Calvinist offers an answer and is unconvinced by any of my replies. I never said I could convince those who hold to absolutely idiotic beliefs such as this one, that they are wrong. Any thinking person not already blinded by their faith would see the obvious and serious problem here.

(John W. Loftus, 10-15-06)

[I]t is apparent that upon careful examination, several fundamental elements of the Christian faith do not stand up to outside critiques, or even, in some cases, to several passages in the same book. In the case of the ‘virginal birth’ and the accompanying prophecies, it is obvious that the two critical parts of the faith of Christianity can not logically coexist. But then, logic is not what religion is based upon.

(C.J. Baserap, 5-14-06)

But here’s one scholar, at least: William Lane Craig:

There’s another version of Dr. Ehrman’s objection which is even more obviously fallacious than Ehrman’s Egregious Error. I call it “Bart’s Blunder.”

In this paper, presented by you (6-6-06), you yourself state that Craig is a pretty decent scholar, not an idiot and deluded and presumptuous fool like you think I am: “Craig understands symbolic logic, and uses it to his advantage whenever he can. . . . Craig does a masterful job of it.”

Since Dr. Craig used the outrageous word “obvious” with regard to one of his own arguments, or regarding the “obviously fallacious . . . Egregious Error” [his capital letters] and “Blunder” of an opponent, then he, too must be (as you say I am) “the answer man. Everyone else is ignoring the obvious . . . the hallmark of an ignorant and uneducated man.” Nice little foray into symbolic logic there, John . . .

And again you (5-7-06) cite NT scholar James Dunn (one whom Ed Babinski has tried to cite against my position):

“John’s Gospel is ‘obviously different’ [Dunn] from the other three earlier Gospels in terms of style and content.”

So there is another “ignorant and uneducated” scholar, using this dreaded word “obvious” and thus proving that he has no business commenting on anything at all, with such unmitigated gall and hubris, leading him to possess such inappropriate confidence!

Okay Dave. Fine. Where do you get the time to search these things out? For me to answer you I would have to search out the context of every one of these uses of “obviously.” But let me guess. Craig does this only in debates for rhetorical effect. Others were talking about their own notions and personal experiences. Still others are indeed fairly obvious.

They’re what???!!!

There are other usages you pointed to which I’ll let those who used them speak for themselves. But if I’m arguing against a viewpoint that I know my opponent doesn’t agree with, or if I’m arguing a minority viewpoint, or a contestable viewpoint then it’s ignorant to use the word for anything contestable, especially as much as you use it. And even when you don’t use such a word it’s in the whole tone of what you write.

For instance it is “obvious” to me that Christianity is false.

It’s what???!!! But of course, this is not an arrogant use of the word; only when I use it to defend Christianity. Curious logic . . .

That’s my personal belief, and it’s proper to use this word to describe my personal feelings about Christianity. But to say it’s “obvious” that Christianity is false in an argument that attempts to show another person that it’s false, is ignorant, unless done for rhetorical effect, which is merely rhetorical and has no force at all. Ehrman could’ve simply said “this is not obvious to me.”

That’s interesting. So to describe an argument as “obviously wrong” is insufferably arrogant, but to utilize a number of different arguments to make a statement describing one’s conclusion that an entire religion is obviously false, is perfectly prim and proper. It’s a silly distinction. Just let people say what they want to, and give them the freedom to use whatever words they wish. John finds my style offensive and overly-confident. I find his insulting and condescending. Does he really think my being confident that an argument is “obviously wrong” is more offensive than him calling me an “arrogant idiot” and all the additional insults (most aimed at my knowledge and intelligence) seen presently?

I am annoyed by people like you, and it may be a personality problem. I’m annoyed with pompous self-righteous know-it-all’s, especially when I know they don’t.

See, there you go! LOL Yet another to add to my collection. So John lectures me about supposed attitudes, using examples that don’t prove his point, and then absolutely proves that his attitude is far worse than mine, by any objective criteria.

And that is how you come across. Now it might go over well with your supporters and visitors to your site, but not here. Here you will find people who disagree with you a lot more often.

Not only do you think you’re right when you haven’t read the relevant literature. Now you are attempting to defend the arrogant way you argue. You’re just right about everything, or, at least you always come across that way. And in my book that reveals you are an uneducated, ignorant, arrogant know-it-all.

What I am probably going to do is to delete these comments tomorrow so that we can start this discussion all over again. You may copy them if you want to, but they are off track.

Yes, of course (precisely why I knew I had to preserve them). I suppose I would do the same thing, if something made me look like a fool, as this stuff does regarding John.

[to someone else]:

I think people who argue in the manner I see over at Triablogue [an anti-Catholic site], and even Dave Armstrong to some degree, don’t care about us as persons. They only want to show to others, whom they do care for, that we are wrong. Many of them think we are ignorant or willfully ignorant deceivers who don’t care about the truth at all. So they treat us like non-persons.

Yes, of course. I disagree with a position, and this sort of hyper-paranoid tripe is what I get back. But John is clearly (whoops, OBVIOUSLY) showing tons of “care” for me as “person” when he uses the following descriptions (all now a matter of record):

you continue to waste space

You are ignorant

you present your uninformed arguments as if everyone should agree with you

Any educated person would not state the things you do with such arrogance.

with you there is no discussion to be had for any topic you write about.

You are the answer man. Everyone else is ignoring the obvious. And that’s the hallmark of an ignorant and uneducated man.

I am annoyed by people like you, . . . pompous self-righteous know-it-all’s

Now you are attempting to defend the arrogant way you argue.

You’re just right about everything, or, at least you always come across that way.

you are an uneducated, ignorant, arrogant know-it-all.

I think people who argue in the manner I see over at Triablogue, and even Dave Armstrong to some degree, don’t care about us as persons.

Many of them [implied, including me] think we are ignorant or willfully ignorant deceivers who don’t care about the truth at all. So they treat us like non-persons.

(all on 11-30-06)

Not bad for a day’s work, especially for one who is lecturing another about how to treat folks respectfully. What else has John said about me in the past?:

Dave, as I read this [my critique of his deconversion] I thought to myself, he doesn’t think of me as an equal. He looks down his nose at me. As I’m writing he looks for loopholes. He doesn’t think I was sincere. I’m probably not even a person to him.

You’re a joke. I’m surprised you have an audience. You’re also a psychologist, eh? Wow! . . . Again, you’re a joke.

. . . that quite frankly is stupid of you.

You’re a joke, and I just don’t have the time to teach you what you need to understand.

To think you could pompously proclaim you are better than me is beyond me when you don’t know me. It’s a defensive mechanism you have with people like me.

You have shown yourself to be non-objective with me and to parade before the ignorant how smart and how much more faith you have than I did.

It’s called respecting people as people, and Dave’s Christianity does not do that with people who don’t agree with him.

I’m just tired of pompous asses on the internet who go around claiming they are superior to me in terms of intelligence and faith. Such arrogance makes me vomit.

. . . self-assured arrogant idiots out there, like Dave, who prefer to proclaim off of my personal experience that they are better than I.

(10-16-06; wow, it’a close call between these two insult-days. I give the nod to 10-16, though, because I love “arrogant idiot” and “joke” the best)


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